[EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e
http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven
Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees
By Gary Richards 11/02/2014
[image
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG
John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the
United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area
News Group)
]
Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that
will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work?
When will this go into effect?
Betty Weldon
A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago
Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the
number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project
that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to
consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled).
Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee
beginning July 1. Details on that program:
It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in
hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer.
Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state.
The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers.
This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to
collect road fees.
Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be
watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place.
Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005
as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago,
Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure
dropped to 14.5 billion last year. And the state gas tax has not been raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23, the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3Devln+-re%26sort%3Ddate
http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2014/11/03/reasons-drive-electric/18386219/
5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
+
EVLN: SR-Auto bling-tuning of BMW i3 EV
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On Nov 8, 2014, at 8:57 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A gps based system could report only total miles traveled to protect those concerned with others knowing where they drive. Could it? Sure, in theory. Would it? In this day and age? Who're you trying to kid? *You* may be fine with the idea, but I don't think anybody else will be. And it wouldn't take much at all for it to be subject to gross abuse. Why bother with automated radar cameras when you can just automatically ticket people whenever and wherever based on GPS data? And good luck if you happen to get stopped behind somebody doing a drug buy or picking up a prostitute in the worng part of town; your GPS data is going to make you a suspect, as well -- and you may well never see the light of day again if you're the car a drive-by shooter speeds around. That's all before we get to questions of less-than-honest cops using the data for blackmail or stalking or the like. Maybe you're a conservative Republican candidate for office who stops once a week at a gay bar? Maybe you're that cute cooed who got a ticket from the creeper cop? Maybe you're the plumber who made a mess un-clogging the toilet? We've already seen the beginnings of this with NSA agents doing their own supercharged cyberstalking. And now you want to make it trivial for any state trooper to do the same? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141109/24b9b854/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
/There's another aspect to this: how is the government to know how many in-state miles you've driven? The only feasible way is with GPS trackers in every car, something horrifically unconscionable. / I don't see what is so horrific about this. A gps based system could report only total miles traveled to protect those concerned with others knowing where they drive. Seems the most fair way is to tax all vehicles the same way. I'd tax all vehicles based on miles driven and vehicle weight. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-CA-testing-55-mpge-mi-based-VMT-road-tax-fees-aimed-plugins-tp4672432p4672480.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e
http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven
Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees
By Gary Richards 11/02/2014
[image
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG
John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the
United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area
News Group)
]
Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that
will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work?
When will this go into effect?
Betty Weldon
A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago
Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the
number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project
that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to
consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled).
Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee
beginning July 1. Details on that program:
It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in
hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer.
Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state.
The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers.
This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to
collect road fees.
Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be
watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place.
Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005
as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago,
Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure
dropped to 14.5 billion last year. And the state gas tax has not been raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23, the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3Devln+-re%26sort%3Ddate
http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2014/11/03/reasons-drive-electric/18386219/
5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
+
EVLN: SR-Auto bling-tuning of BMW i3 EV
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-CA-testing-55-mpge-mi-based-VMT-road-tax-fees-aimed-plugins-tp4672420.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 7 Nov 2014 at 2:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. Right, so let's discourage that. Great. I see this sort of notion and have to conclude that the US has the world's most (literally) backward governments. In most countries, they ENCOURAGE use of EVs and high-MPG ICEVs. Here, we're discouraging them by making them pay an extra tax. These state legislators seem to have forgotten that by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING them tax dollars. (As the old saw says, no good deed goes unpunished.) I suppose one reason for the legal difference is that most (all?) European nations have laws requiring them to reduce carbon emissions, though how fully they're enforced I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir, I suppose. Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000 plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam up. From the standpoint of encouraging EV adoption, it appears to me that carpool lane access for EVs has been a huge success in CA. The problem is that it's a self-limiting perquisite. The more vehicles you let in, the less desirable the carpool lanes are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 9:36 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 7 Nov 2014 at 2:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. Right, so let's discourage that. Great. I see this sort of notion and have to conclude that the US has the world's most (literally) backward governments. In most countries, they ENCOURAGE use of EVs and high-MPG ICEVs. Here, we're discouraging them by making them pay an extra tax. These state legislators seem to have forgotten that by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING them tax dollars. (As the old saw says, no good deed goes unpunished.) I suppose one reason for the legal difference is that most (all?) European nations have laws requiring them to reduce carbon emissions, though how fully they're enforced I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir, I suppose. Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000 plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam up. From the standpoint of encouraging EV adoption, it appears to me that carpool lane access for EVs has been a huge success in CA. The problem is that it's a self-limiting perquisite. The more vehicles you let in, the less desirable the carpool lanes are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
And it can be argued that the purchase subsidy is already recompense for the relief EVs bring to pollution controls and the like. Whether such things should be paid for with user fees or more progressive forms of taxation is a discussion for a whole different forum ;-) - Cal Frye Paul Dove via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org November 7, 2014 at 10:50 AM Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) EVDL Administrator via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org November 7, 2014 at 10:36 AM On 7 Nov 2014 at 2:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. Right, so let's discourage that. Great. I see this sort of notion and have to conclude that the US has the world's most (literally) backward governments. In most countries, they ENCOURAGE use of EVs and high-MPG ICEVs. Here, we're discouraging them by making them pay an extra tax. These state legislators seem to have forgotten that by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING them tax dollars. (As the old saw says, no good deed goes unpunished.) I suppose one reason for the legal difference is that most (all?) European nations have laws requiring them to reduce carbon emissions, though how fully they're enforced I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir, I suppose. Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000 plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam up. From the standpoint of encouraging EV adoption, it appears to me that carpool lane access for EVs has been a huge success in CA. The problem is that it's a self-limiting perquisite. The more vehicles you let in, the less desirable the carpool lanes are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) brucedp5 via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org November 7, 2014 at 5:07 AM Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees By Gary Richards 11/02/2014 [image http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area News Group) ] Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work? When will this go into effect? Betty Weldon A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled). Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee beginning July 1. Details on that program: It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer. Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state. The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers. This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to collect road fees. Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place. Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago, Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure dropped to 14.5 billion last
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 11/07/2014 10:50 AM, Paul Dove via EV wrote: Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way The problem is they keep throwing fair into the equation and that will just make it complicated and expensive. I bet it costs more to collect these devised taxes than they gain. Fair says people using the roads should pay for their upkeep whether they live here or not. Gas tax works in general because if you're from out-of-state but here for any length of time you'll have to buy gas here. And if you're a resident traveling elsewhere you'll be buying your gas elsewhere to pay for road upkeep there. I believe you meant to say can't tax electricity. They could do it by requiring separate metering for EVSEs. Complicated and expensive and doesn't account for out-of-staters. Oregon says they're going to charge 1.5cents per mile for miles traveled within the state for vehicles that get 55mpg or greater. Complicated and expensive to track. I say let's redefine fair a bit to say if you live in the state the roads are your responsibility. Virtually every state has some sort of semi-regular inspection or registration program. Report the current mileage on your car and pay the tax on that (over time would be nice). Do away with the gas tax and make EVERYONE pay this way. Quick and easy to collect and reasonably fair. Perhaps we make it apply to vehicles under 6000 pounds and keep the gas tax for big trucks. They're the ones that cause the most road damage anyway. Of course tax dodgers would register their vehicles in another state but we have that problem now with people trying to avoid property tax. One reason they won't want to do this is because it would suddenly make the tax visible. In my state a 25mpg car will take about 600 gallons to drive 15,000 miles and I'll pay $150 in fuel tax (and about $135 in sales tax). If they charged me a penny a mile, that same 15,000 miles would cost me the same $150 but I would actually see a bill for it. And I wouldn't be paying it a couple dollars at a time like I do now. Legislators know voters hate that kind of thing. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Paul Dove via EV wrote: Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. I don't think any reasonable person objects to paying taxes to support our highway infrastructure. But the *way* it's being done with ICEs vs. EVs violates people's sense of fair play. ICEs: Unlike everything else, the taxes on gasoline are hidden. You don't get an itemized receipt that shows the amount for fuel, and the amount for taxes. They sneak it in so most people are unaware that they are paying it. Doing it this way encourages consumption. EVs: They make the tax a huge in your face lump sum payment. That alarms people, and discourages them from buying an EV. An additional issue is that many states use fuel taxes as a cash cow that goes into the general fund for all sorts of non-highway-related uses. People are much less likely to support a tax when they don't know how the money will be spent. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. I assume you meant to say you *can't* tax the electricity used for EVs separately? But you CAN. When I lived in Michigan, they required that I pay a sales and USE tax on motor vehicle fuel. So I had a separate meter in the garage, that showed what I used for EV charging. (It also counted the garage lights, but that was trivial in comparison). At first, I had to send a form to the state quarterly to pay the use tax. It was tiny; a couple dollars every 3 months. Then they changed me to annual filing. Then they said don't' bother -- annual totals under $50 don't need to be paid. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
The fair answer is simple. Currently EV's get a free ride on the roads but
gas cars get a free ride on the environmental damage they cause. This
disparity should be eliminated ON BOTH SIDES. That is, for every dollar of
road tax you add to the EV, add the same Dollar to the gas tax for the
environment.
Done, Fair, move on.
Bob, WB4APR
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 5:08 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@
plugins
Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e
http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven
Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees By Gary Richards 11/02/2014
[image
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG
John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the
United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area
News Group) ]
Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that
will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work?
When will this go into effect?
Betty Weldon
A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago
Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the
number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project
that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to
consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled).
Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee
beginning July 1. Details on that program:
It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in
hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer.
Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state.
The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers.
This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to
collect road fees.
Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be
watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place.
Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005
as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago,
Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure
dropped to 14.5 billion last year. And the state gas tax has not been raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23, the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 7 Nov 2014 at 13:15, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Currently EV's get a free ride on the roads but gas cars get a free ride on the environmental damage they cause. This is the point I was trying to make when I said by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING [the states] tax dollars. You said it more succinctly. Today there's an undercurrent of anti-environmentalism in the US, a backlash if you will. This extends into government in many areas. Lee's assessment that they make the tax a huge 'in your face' lump sum payment [to discourage people] from buying an EV is right on. I wonder if at least some of the diminution in fuel tax revenue isn't just a product of a weak economy and increased unemployment. I don't have any numbers, but I'd think that's a more significant contributor than the relatively small number of people with EVs and more-efficient ICEVs. Thus I suspect that revenue loss is only part of the reason for this proposal, and in some cases maybe not even the primary one. Another major reason for it might well be to deliberately punish and discourage greenies. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Coming soon. More stuff we need to discourage, because in some way it reduces tax revenues * high recycle households. * healthy people. * gardeners * wells and septic tanks * solar panels * bicyclers * joggers * people who don't consume alcohol and tobacco It's obvious these people aren't paying their fair share and refuse to join the lowest common denominator. Now, these tax avoiders, might claim that their actions actually benefit society and as such don't need to be taxed, but these sorts of win-win arguments are self-serving and therefore wrong. No one must be allowed to win. If we all work together we can create new intrusive technologies for tax collection...creating new jobs in state goverment in the process...which will further require new taxes to pay for, in a never ending spiral of job creation. As an added benefit, these new intrusive technologies will benefit global marketing divisions with all sorts of new consumer data, and help our good friends at the NSA stop the non-taxpaying-terrorists. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/30e01078/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Lawrence Winiarski via EV wrote: Coming soon. More stuff we need to discourage, because in some way it reduces tax revenues Thanks for my laugh of the day, Lawrence! :-) It reminds me of A Christmas Car, a parody of Dickens' A Christmas Carol I wrote years ago. http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Ben wrote - Put simply, the government has no business knowing how much I drive where and when. So I guess you take the battery out of your cellphone when you're driving... Rush Tucson AZ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
And don't forget plug-in Hybrids. They can go on out of state or in state, use gasoline (and pay gas tax), use electricity (and potentially be taxed via odometer also, resulting in doubly taxed, no taxed or any combination therein. Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way Not previously. It's STILL done that way. There isn't a damn thing wrong with the current system.If they want more money, just raise the gas tax. If they are too chicken to do that, then they can just accept the consequences. Adding some stupid tax on cars that get more than 55 mpg or EV's is a damn drop in the bucket as far as revenue goes. This isn't about revenue. It's about something else. I want to stress that the whole thing is ridiculous. Even if you doubly taxed every single EV it would be a drop in the ocean for actual tax revenues. The whole fairness thing is a giant red herring devised by a dozen people in the dept of Transportation in Oregon, (As if the public was ever clammoring for taxing electric cars ) This group originally formed about 13 years ago, to get a 2 million dollar Bush-era grant to try and tax people for driving during rush hour...so rich people could drive unimpeded without the riff raff clogging up their freeways.The did a pilot study with GPS installed and they did their stupid study and used the money. then instead of just disbanding, they need to keep the funding so they tried to get it expanded and the public overwhelmingly said NO to GPS. Now their cushy jobs were at risk so they dusted off the same study to do try and foist the same thing on electric cars and got more tax money. But nobody wants a GPS in their car. And the shennanigans at the NSA have made this even more politically difficult. So now they are desperately lobbying to keep the funding coming and using the crumbling infrastructure arguments and trying to get the public mad about EV cars...yeah right. I'd guess 90% of the public doesn't even realize there is a tax on gasolineand probably only 1% have a clue about the amounts. Because they never actually pay a bill. So this whole thing is about job security of a few select people who have already spent millions of dollars of tax payer money to collect a few thousand dollars in tax. They bombard state governments all over the nation with fear mongering studies indicating drastically falling revenues over the next 10 years..and our elected representatives are wetting themselves with math and chart anxiety that they don't even understand. The Oregon group keeps pounding into their ears that EV drivers will destroy our nations infrastructureSo they create task forces that they can blame if anything bad happens. Also because there is no such thing as math at our nations law schools, these same geniuses will spend billions of dollars to figure out how to generate millions in EV-taxes. No joke. It's not about revenue in 2012 their pilot program cost the taxpayer $1,515,467. It brought in a whopping $2,840 in tax Their NEW 5000 volunteer program allows 1500 gas vehicle which get LESS than 17 mpg to pay a tax equivalent to 19 mpg. In other words it creates a SUBSIDY FOR GAS GUZZLERS SO THEY PAY LESS TAX And here we are.. Source http://www.nascio.org/awards/nominations2014/2014/2014OR4-Oregon-ODOT%20-%202014%20Road%20Usage%20Charge%20Program.pdf and http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP/docs/SB_810_Enrolled_Road_User_Charges_%282013%29.pdf -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/04f1d65e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
