Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-24 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Got it. Thx. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Jukka Järvinen wrote: > > No. I'm saying there were tons of gasoline powered scooters and motorcycles > in the cities in China (like Shenzhen). Now they have been replaced by > electric scooters and electric bicycles. The electr

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-24 Thread Jukka Järvinen via EV
No. I'm saying there were tons of gasoline powered scooters and motorcycles in the cities in China (like Shenzhen). Now they have been replaced by electric scooters and electric bicycles. The electric scooter is usually with SLA batteries and weights about 120kg (270 lbs). The electric bicycle is a

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-24 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Very interesting. So you're saying that there are tons of gasoline-powered assisted bikes in China, and that these are what's being replaced, not non-assisted bikes. I've never been to China, so I really don't know. I appreciate the information. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:22 AM

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-24 Thread Jukka Järvinen via EV
When the comparison is done fair we should look what the electric bike replaces. We should not compare unaided bicycles to electrically assisted ones. In China many electric bicycles are much sturdier than ones without electric assistance. So one can zip away on the streets with the bike and 3 oth

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
l Ross via EV" > To: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion > List" > Sent: 23-Aug-15 10:41:45 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway > HT delivery > >> Mark, >> >> That is ki

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
I was referring to human power. Much more efficient. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2015, at 10:41 AM, Michael Ross wrote: > > Mark, > > That is kind of naive, or not resulting from careful thought - "cleanliness" > of any electric use depends on the power generating source. > > I have

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Two-stroke engines are hi emission. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: > >> On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >> >> If it merely 100% replaces a pedal-only bike, then clearly it is dirtier. > > I can't help but think this is the

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Michael Ross via EV
I don't think keeping up with a bike is a pertinent point. A Model S can't outdo a normal 4 cycle twin under 1000cc.. On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: > On Aug 23, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote: > > > It was quite hard to ride them slowly. I did get close to 5

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread John Lussmyer via EV
On Sun Aug 23 12:49:38 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:45 AM, John Lussmyer wrote: > >> On Sun Aug 23 11:25:05 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >>> Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get >>> better fuel economy than the best econobox >> >> T

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Motorcycles are particularly bad if you look at person miles per gallon, but so many cars are driven solo. None of that is an issue for light EVs.I had a variety of 750's and 850's (4 cycle twins) in the 80's and got no more than 45mpg. On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Aug 23, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote: > It was quite hard to ride them slowly. I did get close to 50 mpg when I > could hold it to 50-55 mph. Ah...well, I think my point is still proven -- at least, if you amend it to include driving habits. The only full-sized cars that could ke

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Willie2 via EV
On 08/23/2015 02:49 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:45 AM, John Lussmyer wrote: On Sun Aug 23 11:25:05 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better fuel economy than the best econobox That particular part of

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:45 AM, John Lussmyer wrote: > On Sun Aug 23 11:25:05 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >> Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better >> fuel economy than the best econobox > > That particular part of your statement is incorrect. > I used t

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread John Lussmyer via EV
On Sun Aug 23 11:25:05 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better >fuel economy than the best econobox That particular part of your statement is incorrect. I used to ride a 1000cc motorcycle that got 30mpg. -- Bobcats and Coug

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > If it merely 100% replaces a pedal-only bike, then clearly it is dirtier. I can't help but think this is the perfect being the enemy of the good. Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better fuel economy

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
-- From: "Michael Ross via EV" To: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 23-Aug-15 10:41:45 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery Mark, That is kind of naive, or not resulting f

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Mark, That is kind of naive, or not resulting from careful thought - "cleanliness" of any electric use depends on the power generating source. I have 6kW of solar at home - pretty clean. If I charged the light EV pack with a gas generator that would be pretty stinky. Grid power around here is p

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Aren't EV miles *dirtier* for bikes? Don't they mostly use unassisted bikes? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Jukka Järvinen wrote: > > I bet this guy did not even know he was doing something wrong. As this is > standard procedure on many Chinese cities. :D Most get away with

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-22 Thread Jukka Järvinen via EV
I bet this guy did not even know he was doing something wrong. As this is standard procedure on many Chinese cities. :D Most get away without a single scratch as everyone knows bicycles are everywhere. Which is exactly the opposite situation in most US cities. Right? The thing to observe here coul

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea> weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

2015-08-22 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Not sure what this has to do with EVs, unless you're implying that the electrification of his bike had something to do with his lunacy. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-bike-traffic-holland-tu