On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
As I said, conterfactual correctness has very little to do with the actual conscious
moment. That is given simply by the sequence of actual brain states --
But what is a
On 30 March 2015 at 11:43, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 29 March 2015 at 19:25, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
But isn't it the case that your brain evolved/learned to interpret and be
conscious of these stimuli only because it exists in the context of this
world?
That would be
On 30 March 2015 at 18:40, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
I was referring to the entire exchange, not just one side. It doesn't
directly physically hurt anyone to be rude or abusive, but it's better
not to be rude or abusive.
It may cause emotional damage. In extreme cases of
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
It would mean, for example, that you could have gone blind last week
but not realise
Best guess on my part. Platonia produces physicalism, via constant computation
{unproven} and yields the universe. Platonia is more real then 3 and 4 D space
that we are created from. Steinhart's theory- we are a data stream-process,
that gets promoted to another hypercomputer.
On 29 Mar 2015, at 19:47, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Quentin explained you politely the errors you made
Politely?!!
Yes.
His explanations were clear, polite and definite (three years ago). He
eventually get nervous
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
On 30 Mar 2015, at 11:19 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 08:39, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Please! Hunter Gatherers - warriors is a
On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, would destroy the common idea of
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:04 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 28 March 2015 at 23:12, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
The characteristics of a gender have been evolved by millions of years of
selection, and women preferences play a role in this selection process.
Not just A
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:57 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok... Well now everybody can see you as you really are,
And
On 30 Mar 2015, at 03:10, LizR wrote:
On 29 March 2015 at 10:45, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says I
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what I means.
The same is true of the MWI. We don't say I expect
On 30 Mar 2015, at 04:20, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says I
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what I means.
The same is true of the MWI.
No it is not the
On 29 Mar 2015, at 19:42, John Clark wrote:
snip
(already answered/commented)
You keep oscillating between too much simple and pompous (but
correct) and incorrect or imprecise
Well, that's what happens with a theory where the true parts are
obvious and the non-obvious parts are
On 29 Mar 2015, at 21:41, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 10:47 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's
On 30 Mar 2015, at 07:40, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 29 March 2015 at 05:31, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com
wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Quentin Anciaux
allco...@gmail.com wrote:
2015-03-28 19:04 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com:
On Sat, Mar 28,
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:13 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and I
just learned that Zayn Malik is quitting One Direction and I'm trying to
get his
:-)
If that fails you could try for a job as the next Doctor Who.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
So in Helsinki, if John Clark writes in the diary: I predict that I
will live either WW or WM or MW or MM, then
John Clark doesn't understand Bruno Marchal's notation and doesn't know the
difference between WW and WM, but it
On 30 Mar 2015, at 05:45, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 15:20, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says I
expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows
On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, would destroy the common idea of consciousness that we have.
It would mean, for example, that you could have
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
No it is not the same. In the MWI if John Clark says tomorrow I will
see the electron spin up then tomorrow there is a clear way for Liz to
determine if the prediction was correct or not because the the laws pf
physics guarantee that Liz
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
That true. in the MWI we don't say that, but even if we did the
statement would not be gibberish it would just turn out to be wrong. But in
the copying machine world I will see Moscow tomorrow is equivalent to
klogknee will see
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 March 2015 at 09:28, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marc...@ulb.ac.be');
On 31 March 2015 at 05:41, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Bruno's point is that *if* consciousness is an outcome of computation,
then it could in principle be duplicated.
Of course it can be duplicated! Is that even supposed to
On 30 March 2015 at 23:46, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:04 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 28 March 2015 at 23:12, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
The characteristics of a gender have been evolved by millions of years
of selection,
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lizj...@gmail.com'); wrote:
On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou
On 30 March 2015 at 15:16, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 3/29/2015 7:06 PM, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 14:35, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
Them? They're just idiot warmongers like the brutes they are
confronting. Takes one to know one. As soon as you have my
On 31 March 2015 at 05:47, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:13 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and
I just learned that Zayn Malik is quitting One Direction and I'm trying to
get his
:-)
On 31 March 2015 at 09:28, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of
On 31 March 2015 at 11:11, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26,
On 31 March 2015 at 05:41, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
the MWI implies that our idea of what we are is wrong,
It's not wrong it's just not the whole truth. What is?
or at least inadequate.
Well... it's worked pretty
On 31 March 2015 at 01:08, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2015, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 19:26, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
Fading qualia in the setting of normal behaviour, if logically
possible, would destroy
On 31 March 2015 at 06:02, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
That true. in the MWI we don't say that, but even if we did the
statement would not be gibberish it would just turn out to be wrong. But in
the copying machine
On 31 March 2015 at 12:20, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
I can't think of a situation where I would be more incredulous than if
someone told me I wasn't really experiencing what I thought I was
experiencing. For this reason, I don't think the consciousness-deniers are
really
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
You talk like if there was an insuperable difficulty brought by the
duplication.
Engineering difficulties only, scientific breakthroughs would not be
required to make a matter duplicating machine; however when such machines
become
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:32 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
step zero is when you either do or don't agree that, if a doctor replaced
your brain with an electronic version that exactly duplicated the
computations (hypothetically) underlying your consciousness, you would
survive the
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 07:04:10AM -0400, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Well, its not the new jihadists I blame, but the (yes) leftist academics,
politicians, and news thugs, that have long, empowered, and made excuses for
these aggressors. My suspicion is that they see the jihadists
2015-03-31 7:19 GMT+02:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net:
On 3/30/2015 10:17 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply
shows that his version of computationalism is
On 3/30/2015 10:17 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply shows that his
version of computationalism is incompatible with physical supervenience. This cannot
be seen as
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Mar 2015, at 10:04, Bruce Kellett wrote:
OK. If all the connections and inputs remain intact, and the digital
simulation is accurate, I don't see a problem. But I might object if
the doctor plans to replace my brain with an abstract computation in
Platonia
The
meekerdb wrote:
On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno has acknowledged that this is not what the MGA shows. MGA simply
shows that his version of computationalism is incompatible with
physical supervenience. This cannot be seen as surprising since it is
explicitly built into
On 3/30/2015 10:42 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Mar 2015, at 10:04, Bruce Kellett wrote:
OK. If all the connections and inputs remain intact, and the digital simulation is
accurate, I don't see a problem. But I might object if the doctor plans to replace my
brain with
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