Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Brent, That's not what I say but roughly true. However the classical world is mostly a construct of internal mental models of the external computational reality rather than being an actual external physical world. When we study how minds simulate and model external reality this becomes clear a

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/27/2013 10:06 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: I generalize Wheeler's statement in my book on Reality to explain how every connected network of events essentially functions as a mini-reality accessible only to event participants of their networks, and it is only through networks connecting through

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Brent, A more general approach than Wheeler's is to understand that all participants in every event, even down to the particle level, are effectively observers of that event. I generalize Wheeler's statement in my book on Reality to explain how every connected network of events essentially fun

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 27 December 2013 08:16, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/26/2013 1:46 AM, LizR wrote: > >> Interesting, at a brief skim they appear to be suggesting that phenomena >> like quantum erasure involve rewriting the past, or words to that >> effect.or have I got that wrong? >> > > Yeah, it's sort of like

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/26/2013 5:02 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Brent, Yes, the reuniting is an event, an event like every event that occurs in the present moment. Think about it this way. Assume every observer in the entire universe travels relativistically to meet up at a common location. There will be billion

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/26/2013 1:46 AM, LizR wrote: Interesting, at a brief skim they appear to be suggesting that phenomena like quantum erasure involve rewriting the past, or words to that effect.or have I got that wrong? Yeah, it's sort of like Wheeler's "No event is a real event until it's an observed

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Brent, Yes, the reuniting is an event, an event like every event that occurs in the present moment. Think about it this way. Assume every observer in the entire universe travels relativistically to meet up at a common location. There will be billions of different clock time readings on their c

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Hi Quentin, What have I asserted "contrary to known science"? Very little if anything. One needs to clearly distinguish between known science = the equations that work to correctly predict events, and the INTERPRETATIONS of known science which are generally projections of current world views on

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

2013/12/26 LizR > On 26 December 2013 20:17, meekerdb wrote: > >> There are other viewpoints though. QM makes for some interesting >> questions about time as raised in this speculative paper by a couple of top >> experimentalists: >> >> >> http://a-c-elitzur.co.il/uploads/

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 26 December 2013 20:17, meekerdb wrote: > There are other viewpoints though. QM makes for some interesting > questions about time as raised in this speculative paper by a couple of top > experimentalists: > > > http://a-c-elitzur.co.il/uploads/articlesdocs/Elitzur-Dolev1

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Interesting, at a brief skim they appear to be suggesting that phenomena like quantum erasure involve rewriting the past, or words to that effect.or have I got that wrong? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe fro

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/25/2013 10:53 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2013 19:11, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/25/2013 9:15 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2013 15:56, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/25/2013 2:45 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 26 December 2013 19:11, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/25/2013 9:15 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 26 December 2013 15:56, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/25/2013 2:45 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 26 December 2013 07:23, Jesse Mazer wrote: >> >>> The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at the spe

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/25/2013 9:15 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2013 15:56, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/25/2013 2:45 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2013 07:23, Jesse Mazer mailto:laserma...@gmail.com>> wrote: The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at t

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 26 December 2013 15:56, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/25/2013 2:45 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 26 December 2013 07:23, Jesse Mazer wrote: > >> The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at the speed of >> light" was popularized by Brian Greene, but it only works if you choose a >> rather od

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/25/2013 11:59 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: The problem with all your other comments (which I agree with as I scanned them) is they refer to clock time, not the P-time of the present moment. Of course clock time t values vary in a number of ways, but the key insight is they always vary in the e

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/25/2013 2:45 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 December 2013 07:23, Jesse Mazer > wrote: The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at the speed of light" was popularized by Brian Greene, but it only works if you choose a rather odd definition of "

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/25/2013 12:59 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Coordinate time is clock time, proper time is P-time, at least as I interpret it. Note the important, crucial, point that clocks measure only clock time. ?? Clock is proper-time along the worldline of the clock. P-time can't be measured by clocks b

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 26 December 2013 07:23, Jesse Mazer wrote: > The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at the speed of > light" was popularized by Brian Greene, but it only works if you choose a > rather odd definition of "speed through spacetime", one which I haven't > seen any other physicists m

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Hi Jesse, Thanks for your thoughtful reply again. Your notion of 'simultaneity' in your first paragraph is clock time simultaneity (same clock time readings), not the common actual present moment of P-time. Big difference. So it doesn't apply to my points. Coordinate time is clock time, proper

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Hi Edgar, thanks for the reply. But do you agree or disagree with the point that since different frames are considered equally valid and they define simultaneity differently, either there would have to be no experimental means to determine which frame's definition of simultaneity is correct (so tha

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Jesse, Good physics based post. Yes, Brian Greene mentions "everything travels through spacetime at the speed of light" in both his books but only in passing as a curiosity without recognizing its profound significance. Thanks for your link to your physicsforums post. The meaning of 'speed thr

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

The notion that everything "travels through spacetime at the speed of light" was popularized by Brian Greene, but it only works if you choose a rather odd definition of "speed through spacetime", one which I haven't seen any other physicists make use of. See my post #3 on the thread at http://www.p

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Brent, I agree up until your last sentence. There you ignore the fact that the different orders of events are seen by both observers in the exact same common present moment. This can only be understood when two kinds of time are accepted and the difference between clock time (different for diff

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 25 December 2013 14:26, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > > So exactly contrary to your statement, it is precisely special relativity, > properly understood, that puts both the arrow of time and a common present > moment on a firm physical basis. > OK. I was just going by all the physics books I've read

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On 12/24/2013 5:26 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz states that "Special relativity shows that there is no such thing as a "common present moment". but this is incorrect. Actually special relativity shows exactly the opposite. In my book I explain how this works. It is well known, though little un

Re: How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Liz states that "Special relativity shows that there is no such thing as > a "common present moment". but this is incorrect. > > Actually special relativity shows exactly the opposite. In my book I > explain how this works. It is well known,

How the STc principle (special relativity) puts both the arrow of time and a common present moment on a firm physical basis.

Liz states that "Special relativity shows that there is no such thing as a "common present moment". but this is incorrect. Actually special relativity shows exactly the opposite. In my book I explain how this works. It is well known, though little understood, that everything without exception c