Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Dear Samiya, I do not want to put you on the spot, indeed. Thank you for a decent and comprehensive reply. What I referred to as #1, #17 and #18 were references to YOUR post (as your 'numbered' verses from the Q'uran). I do not believe such discussion may ever result in a reasonable conclusion. Thanks for your patience John M On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: John M, I'm not sure I understand your questions. Can you kindly quote #1, #17 #18 so that I can try to respond to it? By the way, this thread started with a discussion about global warming, and I shared a news from European Space Agency regarding Glacial Melt in Antarctica. Is that an authentic news source? I later mentioned that I came across this research while trying to comprehend the verse from the Quran foretelling the eventual and inevitable heating of the seas and only shared the link to my blog. Liz asked a question, hence I responded. Bruno opined and quoted the Quran, and I responded. Nobody is required to believe. If you find the verses of the Quran stating truths, it's up to you to choose whether to accept or to reject it. If the scriptures are divine guidance and there is a Judgement in the Hereafter, then it's to our own personal benefit or loss whether we choose to believe or to reject. According to the Quran, God is not affected by our choice! The guidance is only there for whoever wishes to help themselves and strive for a better future by taking this temporal exam / role / aptitude test seriously. Why this temporal exam / role / aptitude test, I've already quoted the verses which state that humans chose to bear the Trust and therefore the need to be judged whether we qualify to inherit the everlasting Earth with Gardens, or cannot be trusted with it's well-being. To my mind, human actions (individual and collective), as well as inaction, which have contributed to global warming and the general state of the Earth are quite pertinent to our eligibility to inherit the permanent residence of the Hereafter. How many of us can be really trusted with something so precious and so permanent? Samiya On 23-May-2015, at 4:44 pm, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Samiya, so far I kept out from the 'opposition' and tried to comply within my own agnosticism. Now I get tired of all that fairitale-discussion and ask some questions. LizR asked: *'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? * I start earlier:* Does God give any suggestions why we should accept it's(?!) existence?* You assign from the Q'uran the Creation. Easy cop-out. If an infinite wisdom created a world, why should it be so imperfect together with all its inhabitants - requiring constant improvement measures? *(...the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise,...) * There is a fundamental illogical factor (for human minds) in the mentioned quotes: Your #1 is questionable with the everlasting punishment upon a minuscule timeframe activity with negligible wisdom - sometimes not even having the 'means' to know, as e.g. handicapped/birthdefected etc. with death in childhood vs old rich imams. The latter maybe in the 'wrong faith(?) as Shiites(?), etc. Your #17 is a supposition without underlying support - includes also a threat. In your #18 you flatly deny the opposing opinion without support. In the entire position the Q'uran-based faith is postulated and required without support to the human mind. It is supported by threats - AND violence by terrorist groups in favor (practice?) of such threats. That is not the way to gain true believers - IMHO. Is there something better you could advise? John M On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it Liz, you had asked: 'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? ' While reading the Quran this morning, I realized that I had failed to mention an important message: that we should not transgress the balance, and compassionately establish justice so that the delicate ecosystem is not thrown out of balance: [Al-Qur'an Chapter 55:1, 7-9, Translator: Sahih International] 1 The Most Merciful 7 And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance 8 That you not transgress within the balance. 9 And establish weight in justice and do not make deficient the balance. http://quran.com/55 [Al-Qur'an Chapter 42:17-18, Translator: Sahih International] 17 It is Allah who has sent down the Book in truth and
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Your graph shows the result of arctic sea ice disappearing while antarctic sea ice has been increasing. These can both be reasonably ascribed to climate change - less sea ice in the arctic means it's melting, more in the antarctic means it's coming off the ice cap into the sea because the ice cap is melting. The difference is that the sea ice increase in the south adds more volume to the oceans, since it was originally on land, while the ice in the north doesn't make any difference to sea level (except for the contribution from Greenland). So the two roughly balance in terms of sea ice extent, as your graph shows - but *not* in terms of the effects on sea level; the overall effect is to raise it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/24/2015 3:31 AM, LizR wrote: Your graph shows the result of arctic sea ice disappearing while antarctic sea ice has been increasing. These can both be reasonably ascribed to climate change - less sea ice in the arctic means it's melting, more in the antarctic means it's coming off the ice cap into the sea because the ice cap is melting. While more ice slips off into the antarctic sea, the ice cap may in net be growing. This is because warmer oceans result in more snowfall on the antarctic mountains. In the short term this might produce a net reduction in sea level. The difference is that the sea ice increase in the south adds more volume to the oceans, since it was originally on land, while the ice in the north doesn't make any difference to sea level (except for the contribution from Greenland). So the two roughly balance in terms of sea ice extent, as your graph shows - but /not/ in terms of the effects on sea level; the overall effect is to raise it. Quite right. And even apart from the glaciers calving, the ocean warming means the water expands. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Ah! Think again, unless you are wedded to an ideology? This is real trouble, I think, what should we do about it? http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/13/science/la-sci-sn-volcanoes-antarctica-climate-20130712The LA Times is a solid, progressive news source, and I guess the science must've slipped through. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 24, 2015 6:31 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too Your graph shows the result of arctic sea ice disappearing while antarctic sea ice has been increasing. These can both be reasonably ascribed to climate change - less sea ice in the arctic means it's melting, more in the antarctic means it's coming off the ice cap into the sea because the ice cap is melting. The difference is that the sea ice increase in the south adds more volume to the oceans, since it was originally on land, while the ice in the north doesn't make any difference to sea level (except for the contribution from Greenland). So the two roughly balance in terms of sea ice extent, as your graph shows - but not in terms of the effects on sea level; the overall effect is to raise it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On Fri, May 22, 2015 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The polar ice has been shifting from north to south for decades. The losses and gains essentially balance out. I know, and as far as sea levels are concerned the southern polar ice cap is far more important than the northern one; the northern ice cap is primarily ice over the ocean and melting that has zero effect on sea level; if you don't believe me put some ice cubes in a glass of water and mark the level, then come back a few hours later when the ice has melted and you will see that the level has not changed. On the other hand the southern ice cap is primarily ice sheets over land and melting that would cause a dramatic increase in sea levels, but that's not happening. That's why the sea is rising at the undramatic rate of one inch every 10 years; and that's why on a list of existential threats to the human race climate change is so far down the list. Less ice floating in the arctic sea means new important shipping routes have opened up that were not possible before, not a bad thing. Of course you wouldn't know this if you got your science from Forbes instead of looking at the source. I didn't get that graph from Forbes, I got it from the people who made it, NASA. And I didn't get that figure of the ocean rising at a rate of one inch every 10 years from Forbes either, I got it from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/23/2015 1:44 PM, John Mikes wrote: Samiya, so far I kept out from the 'opposition' and tried to comply within my own agnosticism. Now I get tired of all that fairitale-discussion and ask some questions. LizR asked: */'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? /* I start earlier:*/Does God give any suggestions why we should accept it's(?!) existence?/* You assign from the Q'uran the Creation. Easy cop-out. If an infinite wisdom created a world, why should it be so imperfect together with all its inhabitants - requiring constant improvement measures? */(...the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise,...) /* */ /* There is a fundamental illogical factor (for human minds) in the mentioned quotes: Your #1 is questionable with the everlasting punishment upon a minuscule timeframe activity with negligible wisdom - sometimes not even having the 'means' to know, as e.g. handicapped/birthdefected etc. with death in childhood vs old rich imams. The latter maybe in the 'wrong faith(?) as Shiites(?), etc. Your #17 is a supposition without underlying support - includes also a threat. In your #18 you flatly deny the opposing opinion without support. In the entire position the Q'uran-based faith is postulated and required without support to the human mind. It is supported by threats - AND violence by terrorist groups in favor (practice?) of such threats. That is not the way to gain true believers - IMHO. They don't gain true believers, they procreate them. Brent Is there something better you could advise? John M -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Samiya, so far I kept out from the 'opposition' and tried to comply within my own agnosticism. Now I get tired of all that fairitale-discussion and ask some questions. LizR asked: *'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? * I start earlier:* Does God give any suggestions why we should accept it's(?!) existence?* You assign from the Q'uran the Creation. Easy cop-out. If an infinite wisdom created a world, why should it be so imperfect together with all its inhabitants - requiring constant improvement measures? *(...the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise,...) * There is a fundamental illogical factor (for human minds) in the mentioned quotes: Your #1 is questionable with the everlasting punishment upon a minuscule timeframe activity with negligible wisdom - sometimes not even having the 'means' to know, as e.g. handicapped/birthdefected etc. with death in childhood vs old rich imams. The latter maybe in the 'wrong faith(?) as Shiites(?), etc. Your #17 is a supposition without underlying support - includes also a threat. In your #18 you flatly deny the opposing opinion without support. In the entire position the Q'uran-based faith is postulated and required without support to the human mind. It is supported by threats - AND violence by terrorist groups in favor (practice?) of such threats. That is not the way to gain true believers - IMHO. Is there something better you could advise? John M On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it Liz, you had asked: 'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? ' While reading the Quran this morning, I realized that I had failed to mention an important message: that we should not transgress the balance, and compassionately establish justice so that the delicate ecosystem is not thrown out of balance: [Al-Qur'an Chapter 55:1, 7-9, Translator: Sahih International] 1 The Most Merciful 7 And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance 8 That you not transgress within the balance. 9 And establish weight in justice and do not make deficient the balance. http://quran.com/55 [Al-Qur'an Chapter 42:17-18, Translator: Sahih International] 17 It is Allah who has sent down the Book in truth and [also] the balance. And what will make you perceive? Perhaps the Hour is near. 18 Those who do not believe in it are impatient for it, but those who believe are fearful of it and know that it is the truth. Unquestionably, those who dispute concerning the Hour are in extreme error. http://quran.com/42 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it Liz, you had asked: 'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? ' While reading the Quran this morning, I realized that I had failed to mention an important message: that we should not transgress the balance, and compassionately establish justice so that the delicate ecosystem is not thrown out of balance: [Al-Qur'an Chapter 55:1, 7-9, Translator: Sahih International] 1 The Most Merciful 7 And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance 8 That you not transgress within the balance. 9 And establish weight in justice and do not make deficient the balance. http://quran.com/55 [Al-Qur'an Chapter 42:17-18, Translator: Sahih International] 17 It is Allah who has sent down the Book in truth and [also] the balance. And what will make you perceive? Perhaps the Hour is near. 18 Those who do not believe in it are impatient for it, but those who believe are fearful of it and know that it is the truth. Unquestionably, those who dispute concerning the Hour are in extreme error. http://quran.com/42 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On Sat, May 23, 2015 Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: While reading the Quran this morning Were you looking for loopholes? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
John M, I'm not sure I understand your questions. Can you kindly quote #1, #17 #18 so that I can try to respond to it? By the way, this thread started with a discussion about global warming, and I shared a news from European Space Agency regarding Glacial Melt in Antarctica. Is that an authentic news source? I later mentioned that I came across this research while trying to comprehend the verse from the Quran foretelling the eventual and inevitable heating of the seas and only shared the link to my blog. Liz asked a question, hence I responded. Bruno opined and quoted the Quran, and I responded. Nobody is required to believe. If you find the verses of the Quran stating truths, it's up to you to choose whether to accept or to reject it. If the scriptures are divine guidance and there is a Judgement in the Hereafter, then it's to our own personal benefit or loss whether we choose to believe or to reject. According to the Quran, God is not affected by our choice! The guidance is only there for whoever wishes to help themselves and strive for a better future by taking this temporal exam / role / aptitude test seriously. Why this temporal exam / role / aptitude test, I've already quoted the verses which state that humans chose to bear the Trust and therefore the need to be judged whether we qualify to inherit the everlasting Earth with Gardens, or cannot be trusted with it's well-being. To my mind, human actions (individual and collective), as well as inaction, which have contributed to global warming and the general state of the Earth are quite pertinent to our eligibility to inherit the permanent residence of the Hereafter. How many of us can be really trusted with something so precious and so permanent? Samiya On 23-May-2015, at 4:44 pm, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Samiya, so far I kept out from the 'opposition' and tried to comply within my own agnosticism. Now I get tired of all that fairitale-discussion and ask some questions. LizR asked: 'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? I start earlier: Does God give any suggestions why we should accept it's(?!) existence? You assign from the Q'uran the Creation. Easy cop-out. If an infinite wisdom created a world, why should it be so imperfect together with all its inhabitants - requiring constant improvement measures? (...the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise,...) There is a fundamental illogical factor (for human minds) in the mentioned quotes: Your #1 is questionable with the everlasting punishment upon a minuscule timeframe activity with negligible wisdom - sometimes not even having the 'means' to know, as e.g. handicapped/birthdefected etc. with death in childhood vs old rich imams. The latter maybe in the 'wrong faith(?) as Shiites(?), etc. Your #17 is a supposition without underlying support - includes also a threat. In your #18 you flatly deny the opposing opinion without support. In the entire position the Q'uran-based faith is postulated and required without support to the human mind. It is supported by threats - AND violence by terrorist groups in favor (practice?) of such threats. That is not the way to gain true believers - IMHO. Is there something better you could advise? John M On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it Liz, you had asked: 'Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? ' While reading the Quran this morning, I realized that I had failed to mention an important message: that we should not transgress the balance, and compassionately establish justice so that the delicate ecosystem is not thrown out of balance: [Al-Qur'an Chapter 55:1, 7-9, Translator: Sahih International] 1 The Most Merciful 7 And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance 8 That you not transgress within the balance. 9 And establish weight in justice and do not make deficient the balance. http://quran.com/55 [Al-Qur'an Chapter 42:17-18, Translator: Sahih International] 17 It is Allah who has sent down the Book in truth and [also] the balance. And what will make you perceive? Perhaps the Hour is near. 18 Those who do not believe in it are impatient for it, but those who believe are fearful of it and know that it is the truth. Unquestionably, those who dispute concerning the Hour are in extreme error. http://quran.com/42 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Bruno, Consider this verse: Holy Quran 41:52 -- قُلْ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِنْ كَانَ مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ كَفَرْتُمْ بِهِ مَنْ أَضَلُّ مِمَّنْ هُوَ فِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ Say, Have you considered: if the Qur'an is from Allah and you disbelieved in it, who would be more astray than one who is in extreme dissension? Samiya On 20-May-2015, at 1:08 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 20 May 2015, at 09:23, Samiya Illias wrote: Well, if you wish, we all could read together the Quran verse by verse on this list and discuss our understanding of what the verse is saying. With our diverse backgrounds, we can certainly share our insights - Platonist, Aristotelian, Scientific, Etc. and perhaps find and focus on what's common in our beliefs. We will run into difficulties. Unless you agree with the arithmetical lexicon provided by the self-introspecting machine. In which case, by stretching the sense moderately, we can say something. (god = truth, devil = false, soul = self+god, matter = self-+realities, etc.) But it might not be so well for the Quran. Take the verse: 3:4 And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution. That might be interpreted as a deep theological truth, in the machine's religion, but there is a big problem, because that particular statement if theologically true remains non communicable, not even assertable. It says that truth is revealed, and that disbelieving it leads you to a big problem. Basically []f - f, which is true, but not justifiable, not even (and especially) as axiom, as it makes you inconsistent. And that inconsistency can be exploited by blasphemous people using it to punish (before God!) those they estimate not believing, in their sense, to the parole of the prophet. It transforms one of the deeper religious truth into a devilish argument-per-authority. It is a common problem with sacred text. When human deemed a text sacred, they do actually a blaspheme, and in practice it means shut up and calculate. There are things, notably the divine one, which go without saying, and get stuck in cultural representation, when said. Truth is beyond texts, Samiya, religion requires intelligence in its most etymological sense: the ability to read in *between* the lines. Enlightenment might be easy, compared to the task of helping the others from that, which is very complex, subtle and perilous. Hell is paved with good intentions. We have also, in G* \ G: [](~[]f) - f. Don't take this too much literally, of course, even if this admit an arithmetical interpretation, it is still a toy theology, of an ideally correct platonist machine. Yet we can listen to them, and not dismiss them too quickly too. They have the advantage of having much less prejudices than us. Bruno Samiya On 19-May-2015, at 3:33 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 May 2015, at 18:15, Samiya Illias wrote: On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? Can a teacher be good who sets an exam for his
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Hello Samya, On 22 May 2015, at 10:15, Samiya Illias wrote: Bruno, Consider this verse: Holy Quran 41:52 -- قُلْ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِنْ كَانَ مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ كَفَرْتُمْ بِهِ مَنْ أَضَلُّ مِمَّنْ هُوَ فِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ Say, Have you considered: if the Qur'an is from Allah and you disbelieved in it, who would be more astray than one who is in extreme dissension? But is this not an argument-per-authority? Or perhaps a tautology? If Alice in Wonderland is from Allah, and you disbelieved in it, who would be more astray than one who is in extreme dissension? Now that sentence is not in Alice in Wonderland, so there is no argument-per-authority there. But a text which asks to be believed by saying that those who does not believe in it will be led astray arises my suspicion that there is a *man* who seek some power, or some way to control others. The verse 41:53, is slightly reassuring, as it says We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. I think that this is the only way to find out the truth, or to approach it, by personal experience. Then it cannot be communicated, as it would become automatically an argument-per-authority which is not just non-valid, but is a blaspheme. A human communication creates an intermediate between you and God, but I think we agree that there are none. That's why the sacred texts can help during some time, in some contexts, but fundamentally, they have to be abandoned, because the true god is well beyond all texts, I think. The buddhists got the idea when they say that we have to kill all buddhas, all masters, at some point. Bruno Samiya On 20-May-2015, at 1:08 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 20 May 2015, at 09:23, Samiya Illias wrote: Well, if you wish, we all could read together the Quran verse by verse on this list and discuss our understanding of what the verse is saying. With our diverse backgrounds, we can certainly share our insights - Platonist, Aristotelian, Scientific, Etc. and perhaps find and focus on what's common in our beliefs. We will run into difficulties. Unless you agree with the arithmetical lexicon provided by the self- introspecting machine. In which case, by stretching the sense moderately, we can say something. (god = truth, devil = false, soul = self+god, matter = self-+realities, etc.) But it might not be so well for the Quran. Take the verse: 3:4 And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution. That might be interpreted as a deep theological truth, in the machine's religion, but there is a big problem, because that particular statement if theologically true remains non communicable, not even assertable. It says that truth is revealed, and that disbelieving it leads you to a big problem. Basically []f - f, which is true, but not justifiable, not even (and especially) as axiom, as it makes you inconsistent. And that inconsistency can be exploited by blasphemous people using it to punish (before God!) those they estimate not believing, in their sense, to the parole of the prophet. It transforms one of the deeper religious truth into a devilish argument-per-authority. It is a common problem with sacred text. When human deemed a text sacred, they do actually a blaspheme, and in practice it means shut up and calculate. There are things, notably the divine one, which go without saying, and get stuck in cultural representation, when said. Truth is beyond texts, Samiya, religion requires intelligence in its most etymological sense: the ability to read in *between* the lines. Enlightenment might be easy, compared to the task of helping the others from that, which is very complex, subtle and perilous. Hell is paved with good intentions. We have also, in G* \ G: [](~[]f) - f. Don't take this too much literally, of course, even if this admit an arithmetical interpretation, it is still a toy theology, of an ideally correct platonist machine. Yet we can listen to them, and not dismiss them too quickly too. They have the advantage of having much less prejudices than us. Bruno Samiya On 19-May-2015, at 3:33 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 May 2015, at 18:15, Samiya Illias wrote: On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Well, if you wish, we all could read together the Quran verse by verse on this list and discuss our understanding of what the verse is saying. With our diverse backgrounds, we can certainly share our insights - Platonist, Aristotelian, Scientific, Etc. and perhaps find and focus on what's common in our beliefs. Samiya On 19-May-2015, at 3:33 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 May 2015, at 18:15, Samiya Illias wrote: On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? Can a teacher be good who sets an exam for his students, allows the students to refer to the textbook and patiently allows the students time to attempt the exam? Can an movie maker be good who assigns roles to the characters, gives them the script, and then let's them enact their roles? Can an employer be good who sets mock assignments (aptitude tests) for his prospective employees, and then gives them the liberty to execute it, and only later appraises them for their actions? The students', the actors' and the potential employees' performance in their exam, movie or mock assignment determines their future potential and possible career. If we consider this life as the only life and death as a finality, then of course the perspective is different. But if we realise that it's just the end of the trial, then the perspective changes completely. With comp you already sin once you feel superior, or inferior, with respect to Her/It/He. It's not about feeling superior or inferior, it's about realising that we are the 'creation' and God is the 'Creator'. It's about being Just and Justice cannot be a sin. Do you take for granted that the Homo Sapiens is the favorite creature of God? Never claimed to be the favourite. Perhaps among the favoured creation, but certainly not the only one. Does Arithmetical truth loves the Löbian numbers? Ttruth is certainly an attractor for the löbian numbers. ?? God is good, I agree! Thank you :) but with comp both of them are undefinable, and you might sin by deciding what is good and bad by using publicly its Name. Everyone knows the difference between good and bad I think it's called Conscience (it is like the difference between eating a fruit and being burned), Like Garden of Eden and Fire of Hell? but above that you have to open your mind on how others talk about God, and concentrate on what is common, and discard the difference. Reality is beyond the Fairy tales, indeed it is even beyond the correct humans' and machine's theories. Yes, we have been given very little knowledge, most of it is unknown. With comp it is almost obvious that any finite text on God can only be a lie. God is beyond texts. Maybe comp is 'almost obviously' wrong? The Creator who created us to the exact cellular and atomic detail, can the same Creator not also provide a User Manual? After all, the scriptures are not 'about God', they are about humans! Texts can help, but texts can delude, also, especially if you attach yourself with literal interpretations. God, who created in us the ability to speak and express ourselves in word and in
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Ah! The poem has an interesting pedigree. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 19, 2015 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too I was making a teensy little Leonard Cohen joke. Having to explain jokes kills them but just so you know...(what everybody knows...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Knows_(Leonard_Cohen_song) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 20 May 2015, at 09:23, Samiya Illias wrote: Well, if you wish, we all could read together the Quran verse by verse on this list and discuss our understanding of what the verse is saying. With our diverse backgrounds, we can certainly share our insights - Platonist, Aristotelian, Scientific, Etc. and perhaps find and focus on what's common in our beliefs. We will run into difficulties. Unless you agree with the arithmetical lexicon provided by the self- introspecting machine. In which case, by stretching the sense moderately, we can say something. (god = truth, devil = false, soul = self+god, matter = self-+realities, etc.) But it might not be so well for the Quran. Take the verse: 3:4 And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution. That might be interpreted as a deep theological truth, in the machine's religion, but there is a big problem, because that particular statement if theologically true remains non communicable, not even assertable. It says that truth is revealed, and that disbelieving it leads you to a big problem. Basically []f - f, which is true, but not justifiable, not even (and especially) as axiom, as it makes you inconsistent. And that inconsistency can be exploited by blasphemous people using it to punish (before God!) those they estimate not believing, in their sense, to the parole of the prophet. It transforms one of the deeper religious truth into a devilish argument-per-authority. It is a common problem with sacred text. When human deemed a text sacred, they do actually a blaspheme, and in practice it means shut up and calculate. There are things, notably the divine one, which go without saying, and get stuck in cultural representation, when said. Truth is beyond texts, Samiya, religion requires intelligence in its most etymological sense: the ability to read in *between* the lines. Enlightenment might be easy, compared to the task of helping the others from that, which is very complex, subtle and perilous. Hell is paved with good intentions. We have also, in G* \ G: [](~[]f) - f. Don't take this too much literally, of course, even if this admit an arithmetical interpretation, it is still a toy theology, of an ideally correct platonist machine. Yet we can listen to them, and not dismiss them too quickly too. They have the advantage of having much less prejudices than us. Bruno Samiya On 19-May-2015, at 3:33 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 May 2015, at 18:15, Samiya Illias wrote: On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/ fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? Can a teacher be good who sets an exam for his students, allows the students to refer to the textbook and patiently allows the students time to attempt the exam? Can an movie maker be good who assigns roles to the characters, gives them the script, and then let's them enact their roles? Can an employer be good who sets mock assignments (aptitude tests) for his prospective employees, and then gives them the liberty to execute it, and only later appraises them for their actions? The students', the
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 18 May 2015, at 18:15, Samiya Illias wrote: On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/ fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? Can a teacher be good who sets an exam for his students, allows the students to refer to the textbook and patiently allows the students time to attempt the exam? Can an movie maker be good who assigns roles to the characters, gives them the script, and then let's them enact their roles? Can an employer be good who sets mock assignments (aptitude tests) for his prospective employees, and then gives them the liberty to execute it, and only later appraises them for their actions? The students', the actors' and the potential employees' performance in their exam, movie or mock assignment determines their future potential and possible career. If we consider this life as the only life and death as a finality, then of course the perspective is different. But if we realise that it's just the end of the trial, then the perspective changes completely. With comp you already sin once you feel superior, or inferior, with respect to Her/It/He. It's not about feeling superior or inferior, it's about realising that we are the 'creation' and God is the 'Creator'. It's about being Just and Justice cannot be a sin. Do you take for granted that the Homo Sapiens is the favorite creature of God? Never claimed to be the favourite. Perhaps among the favoured creation, but certainly not the only one. Does Arithmetical truth loves the Löbian numbers? Ttruth is certainly an attractor for the löbian numbers. ?? God is good, I agree! Thank you :) but with comp both of them are undefinable, and you might sin by deciding what is good and bad by using publicly its Name. Everyone knows the difference between good and bad I think it's called Conscience (it is like the difference between eating a fruit and being burned), Like Garden of Eden and Fire of Hell? but above that you have to open your mind on how others talk about God, and concentrate on what is common, and discard the difference. Reality is beyond the Fairy tales, indeed it is even beyond the correct humans' and machine's theories. Yes, we have been given very little knowledge, most of it is unknown. With comp it is almost obvious that any finite text on God can only be a lie. God is beyond texts. Maybe comp is 'almost obviously' wrong? The Creator who created us to the exact cellular and atomic detail, can the same Creator not also provide a User Manual? After all, the scriptures are not 'about God', they are about humans! Texts can help, but texts can delude, also, especially if you attach yourself with literal interpretations. God, who created in us the ability to speak and express ourselves in word and in writing, can express and communicate better than we can. There is no need to philosophise the scriptures. Literal readings are our best chance to attempt to understand the message of the scriptures. In the middle-east, people have discussed the Plato/Aristotle view longer than in Occident, and the influence of Plato, and thus of that open-mindness toward both reason and mysticism, is quite palpable. But the Jews, with Maimonides, and most
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Actually the name of the tune was The Future, not everybody knows. Except me, apparently. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 19, 2015 07:18 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_2_4ae97f0d-86d6-4251-8c7c-634975e19cf3 div dir=ltr Yeah, he's good. I guess everybody knows that... div class=aolmail_gmail_extra /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
I was making a teensy little Leonard Cohen joke. Having to explain jokes kills them but just so you know...(what everybody knows...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Knows_(Leonard_Cohen_song) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Yeah, he's good. I guess everybody knows that... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
God wants communists preaching communism whilst gloming cash hypocritically God wants spitting at the Christian God whilst kissing up to the Islamist one The great silence of the neo-sovets! God wants to write The Turning Away, in angst over the win of the horrible Margret Thatcher Waaahh! God wants his son to be a rioter and hurl down bricks onto police, like a good soviet does in a capitalist hell. It's 1926 again -, zombie zombie zombie-time for a national strike, my Red brothers!' What! a Red choking on a Cranberry? Zombie Zombie Zombie-get the Jews-they oppose our Islamist chums! We Reds can march in jackboots too! So stylish! God wants you to Run Rabbit Run, back to your champagne communism limousine Better by far then my crap, of the Water's narcissism is Canadian, Lenoard Cohen's Give me back my broken night My mirrored room, my secret life It's lonely here, There's no one left to torture Give me absolute control Over every living soul And lie beside me, baby, That's an order! Give me crack and anal sex Take the only tree that's left And stuff it up the hole In your culture Give me back the berlin wall Give me stalin and st paul I've seen the future, brother It is murder. Things are going to slide, slide in all directions Won't be nothing Nothing you can measure anymore The blizzard, the blizzard of the world Has crossed the threshold And it has overturned The order of the soul When they said repent repent I wonder what they meant When they said repent repent I wonder what they meant When they said repent repent I wonder what they meant You don't know me from the wind You never will, you never did I'm the little jew Who wrote the bible I've seen the nations rise and fall I've heard their stories, heard them all But love's the only engine of survival Your servant here, he has been told To say it clear, to say it cold: It's over, it ain't going Any further And now the wheels of heaven stop You feel the devil's riding crop Get ready for the future: It is murder. Things are going to slide There'll be the breaking of the ancient Western code Your private life will suddenly explode There'll be phantoms There'll be fires on the road And the white man dancing You'll see a woman Hanging upside down Her features covered by her fallen gown And all the lousy little poets Coming round Tryin' to sound like charlie manson And the white man dancin' Give me back the berlin wall Give me stalin and st paul Give me christ Or give me hiroshima Destroy another fetus now We don't like children anyhow I've seen the future, baby It is murder. Things are going to slide When they said repent repent -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, May 18, 2015 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too I feel a strange desire to quote Roger Waters. What God wants God gets God help us all What God wants God gets (repeated) The kid in the corner looked at the priest And fingered his pale blue Japanese guitar The priest said: God wants goodness God wants light God wants mayhem God wants a clean fight What God wants God gets Don't look so surprised It's only dogma The alien prophet cried The beetle and the springbok Took the Bible from its hook The monkey in the corner Wrote the lesson in his book What God wants God gets God help us all God wants peace God wants war God wants famine God wants chain stores What God wants God gets God wants sedition God wants sex God wants freedom God wants semtex What God wants God gets Don't ok so surprised I'm only joking The alien comic lied The jackass and hyena Took the feather from its hook The monkey in the corner Wrote the joke down in his book What God wants God gets God wants borders God wants crack God wants rainfall God wants wetbacks What God wants God gets God wants voodoo God wants shrines God wants law God wants organised crime God wants crusade God wants jihad God wants good God wants bad What God wants God Gets -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 18-May-2015, at 7:24 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? Can a teacher be good who sets an exam for his students, allows the students to refer to the textbook and patiently allows the students time to attempt the exam? Can an movie maker be good who assigns roles to the characters, gives them the script, and then let's them enact their roles? Can an employer be good who sets mock assignments (aptitude tests) for his prospective employees, and then gives them the liberty to execute it, and only later appraises them for their actions? The students', the actors' and the potential employees' performance in their exam, movie or mock assignment determines their future potential and possible career. If we consider this life as the only life and death as a finality, then of course the perspective is different. But if we realise that it's just the end of the trial, then the perspective changes completely. With comp you already sin once you feel superior, or inferior, with respect to Her/It/He. It's not about feeling superior or inferior, it's about realising that we are the 'creation' and God is the 'Creator'. It's about being Just and Justice cannot be a sin. Do you take for granted that the Homo Sapiens is the favorite creature of God? Never claimed to be the favourite. Perhaps among the favoured creation, but certainly not the only one. Does Arithmetical truth loves the Löbian numbers? Ttruth is certainly an attractor for the löbian numbers. ?? God is good, I agree! Thank you :) but with comp both of them are undefinable, and you might sin by deciding what is good and bad by using publicly its Name. Everyone knows the difference between good and bad I think it's called Conscience (it is like the difference between eating a fruit and being burned), Like Garden of Eden and Fire of Hell? but above that you have to open your mind on how others talk about God, and concentrate on what is common, and discard the difference. Reality is beyond the Fairy tales, indeed it is even beyond the correct humans' and machine's theories. Yes, we have been given very little knowledge, most of it is unknown. With comp it is almost obvious that any finite text on God can only be a lie. God is beyond texts. Maybe comp is 'almost obviously' wrong? The Creator who created us to the exact cellular and atomic detail, can the same Creator not also provide a User Manual? After all, the scriptures are not 'about God', they are about humans! Texts can help, but texts can delude, also, especially if you attach yourself with literal interpretations. God, who created in us the ability to speak and express ourselves in word and in writing, can express and communicate better than we can. There is no need to philosophise the scriptures. Literal readings are our best chance to attempt to understand the message of the scriptures. In the middle-east, people have discussed the Plato/Aristotle view longer than in Occident, and the influence of Plato, and thus of that open-mindness toward both reason and mysticism, is quite palpable. But the Jews, with Maimonides, and most christians and muslims will depart from Plato at
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
I feel a strange desire to quote Roger Waters. What God wants God gets God help us all What God wants God gets (repeated) The kid in the corner looked at the priest And fingered his pale blue Japanese guitar The priest said: God wants goodness God wants light God wants mayhem God wants a clean fight What God wants God gets Don't look so surprised It's only dogma The alien prophet cried The beetle and the springbok Took the Bible from its hook The monkey in the corner Wrote the lesson in his book What God wants God gets God help us all God wants peace God wants war God wants famine God wants chain stores What God wants God gets God wants sedition God wants sex God wants freedom God wants semtex What God wants God gets Don't ok so surprised I'm only joking The alien comic lied The jackass and hyena Took the feather from its hook The monkey in the corner Wrote the joke down in his book What God wants God gets God wants borders God wants crack God wants rainfall God wants wetbacks What God wants God gets God wants voodoo God wants shrines God wants law God wants organised crime God wants crusade God wants jihad God wants good God wants bad What God wants God Gets -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 13 May 2015, at 08:23, Samiya Illias wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. The greeks, may be not so much the indians, got the same idea/fantazy. The idea that God is Good. With comp, good is a protagorean virtue: it obeys []x - ~x But what is good? Can a God be good and accepts that one of its creature kills another of its creature ... in its Name? With comp you already sin once you feel superior, or inferior, with respect to Her/It/He. Do you take for granted that the Homo Sapiens is the favorite creature of God? Does Arithmetical truth loves the Löbian numbers? Ttruth is certainly an attractor for the löbian numbers. God is good, but with comp both of them are undefinable, and you might sin by deciding what is good and bad by using publicly its Name. Everyone knows the difference between good and bad (it is like the difference between eating a fruit and being burned), but above that you have to open your mind on how others talk about God, and concentrate on what is common, and discard the difference. Reality is beyond the Fairy tales, indeed it is even beyond the correct humans' and machine's theories. With comp it is almost obvious that any finite text on God can only be a lie. God is beyond texts. Texts can help, but texts can delude, also, especially if you attach yourself with literal interpretations. In the middle-east, people have discussed the Plato/Aristotle view longer than in Occident, and the influence of Plato, and thus of that open-mindness toward both reason and mysticism, is quite palpable. But the Jews, with Maimonides, and most christians and muslims will depart from Plato at some point. It is unclear to me if the Quran departs a lot from Plato, per se, but the current understanding of it is mainly Aristotelian. For that reason, it is mainly incompatible with comp, unlike the neoplatonist theologies. Bruno Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
It's not a phony charge. The reaction is out of preportion to a genuine crisis. All the billionaires that fund neocommunist causes (Stalin with billionaires) get their piece of the action, via regulations. Two examples for you: One is the CEO of Bershire-Hathaway, which owns CSX, which moves oil, exclusively by rail, and contributed generious to both BHO campaigns. The second example is George Soros, the Hedge Fund guru, who owns 35% of Petrobas, but funds Friends of the Earth, all his pro-soviet orgs like Organizing for America, and the Center for American Progress, Accorn, Occupy, and all the other bums. Soros got Obama to approve Atlantic Ocean drilling, (just 2 weeks ago) as well as with George's own Petrobas- for when the price rises again. It's a mafia of the elites, which progressives worship, and do their bidding. Never let a good crisis go to waste - Obama's leitenant, Rahm Emmanuel. -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 3:45 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 5/12/2015 3:00 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Well, the researchers pretended that they knew, back then and are still advocating regulations rather then new tech, That's a phony charge. NOBODY is advocating regulation instead of new technology. In fact there are subsidies for encouraging the use of PV and wind. There are research grants for developing better PV and better batteries and other energy storage systems. The validity of a science is it's ability to predict. I myself, advocate, solar energy and clean energy alternative research, Now! Research is uncertain. You can't just order up technological breakthroughs. So failing to implement corrections and mitigations using the techonlogy we have is like sitting around hoping. People who advocate regulations of the serfs require a vigorous woodplane, to the face. There are no serfs; although there are shills for fossil fuel industry. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Here's from the Gov of california- http://www.climatechange.ca.gov/climate_action_team/research.html http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/epas-absurd-justifications-power-plant-regulations/ http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059995234 https://www.whitehouse.gov/climate-change Do you need names from the EPA, or Obama's Physicist Moniz?? -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 7:25 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 12 May 2015 at 22:00, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, the researchers pretended that they knew, back then and are still advocating regulations rather then new tech, The validity of a science is it's ability to predict. I myself, advocate, solar energy and clean energy alternative research, Now! People who advocate regulations of the serfs require a vigorous woodplane, to the face. I don't know about researchers advocating anything. If they are recommending we reduce emissions or suffer the consequences, that isn't advocating. These are scientists, so they shouldn't be suggesting policies, just recommending that (within whatever margins of error) a certain course of action will lead to a certain result. It isn't in their area of expertise to say how to bring about that course of action. Can you tell me which researchers are saying what? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
It doesn't matter what we say. It's the super rich that rule things. You know what I feel about solar and storage. I am an insect floating around a modern office building, trying to get in. It's an exaggeration, but a true problem, there. Insect 15,877,123, 749 signing out! -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 7:26 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 12 May 2015 at 22:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well your eyes must be very old indeed, because methane releases go back at least 55 million years, when the great warming occurred and did change the climate. Yes, I know. I've seen some of the evidence - the fungus spike and all that. Very nasty, by the looks of it. Moreover, what are you advocating for a fix for this dilemma? This is where X crosses Y. This is the hard part. My first recommendation is to stop denying that it's happening, if anyone still is. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
They might consider me many things, that they don't like. Off-times, the progressive minds find what I say as offensive. I have no love affair with big oil. But the progressive love-affair with the fascist dreams of Left billionaires to become a soviet version of Rulers and Serfs, I despise. So far, only with Tax Payer subsidies, does the solar energy, world-wide, deliver jack shit. No power supply should be subsidized uranium, coal, oil, gas, biofuel, solar, wind, anything. The way progressives talk, its as if they are powering civilization already-which they aren't! -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 13, 2015 1:59 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 5/10/2015 6:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, I think most of the public would recognize you as a dishonest fossil fuel shill, pretending to want a solution while spreading the obfuscating lies that there is no problem. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
The Uma cannot make peace with the Qfur, because it is outlawed by Sharia, Dar Es Salaam = Islam (House of Peace). Dar al Harb = Infidels, (House of War), but do a temporary truce (Hoodna) but that is it. Otherwise the Faithful receive Allah's wrath which can mean eternal hell, or permanent death. Secondly, there is great reward for those loyal to Allah's Laws. So, from a purely practical point of view, there is no incentive for a true believer to cease war, except for a short time, to re-arm. The religions of the West, their politics, can offer nothing to the Uma (Islamic Community) that can match the wrath or glory of Allah. Hence, I have included Eric Steinhart's philosophy into these discussions, not because he met an Archangel in a cave to receive Allah's word, but because he's a very bright, resourceful guy, who, with 7 billion people in the world, chanced to be most accurate. I consider because of this, and our time in human history, that Steinhart has been correct, in the same sense that a broken clock is correct, twice a day! As a theological/atheist/pantheist/spinozaist philosopher, this guy may have won the lotto, the Spanish El Gordo, the Irish Sweepstakes, the Belaggio. I don't know if Sterinharts' ideas can promote calm, but it makes me wonder. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 7:52 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 12-May-2015, at 6:28 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? Regarding the heating of the seas? No, it's already decreed. This chapter is making the point that this Quran is indeed a message, and reckoning is indeed decreed, hence take warning and prepare for accountability and an eternal life in the hereafter. You can read it here: http://quran.com/81 Samiya On 12 May 2015 at 23:28, Samiya Illiassamiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
But oil (for example) is also subsidised. It doesn't pay environmental costs, for a start. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Yes, liz. Eliminate oil subsidies unless its for applied science. Aka engineering development. Being a brutal libertarian, let it do the darwinian two-step, that we all as individuals must do. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 13, 2015 08:38 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_2_2057c378-fed8-4503-aa3b-6c7435b099d7 div dir=ltr But oil (for example) is also subsidised. It doesn't pay environmental costs, for a start. div class=aolmail_gmail_extra /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
From a purely commercial pov, uranium fission couldn't cut it economically, and that is what surpressed nuclear. Even thorium 232-uranium 233 reactors, have failed to make it outside of Canada, when cost drives them from the market. The cheapest is coal, which should need no subsidies, and then natgas, of which there is a superabundance of currently. By the way shale gas cannot compete when the price of oil really drops, but competes successfully as the premiere electricity maker of the world! All the worlds nuke plans have been sidelined because natgas is cheaper, safer, and far quicker to build. Lastly, if you want people to agree that solar might take decades more so we need to subsidize it, you must be concluding that climate catastrophe is not hammering us yet, and thus, we can take our own sweet time to develop it?? If you feel that climate catastrophe is not imminent, then you logically must conclude that the threat is real, but exaggerated. On this, you likely are co rrect. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 13, 2015 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_2_b21c84d0-0855-4013-bd29-970383a2e5c5 div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 14 May 2015 at 13:36, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex Yes, liz. Eliminate oil subsidies unless its for applied science. Aka engineering development. Being a brutal libertarian, let it do the darwinian two-step, that we all as individuals must do. span /span /blockquote div Mind you oil, nuclear etc have had the benefit of decades of subsidies, so if we want to do a proper balanced free market thing they should be cut, while renewables should be given the same subsidies over the same period. /div /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 12-May-2015, at 9:39 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2015 at 14:29, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. It's a nice fantasy, at least. As opposed to the (apparent) reality that rich people can screw everyone else, each other, and the planet, and still make out like bandits. That is why I suppose facts about creation have been mentioned across the Quran so that those who doubt its authenticity can study and assess for themselves whether this message is from the One who created, knows and is in perfect control of everything to the minutest detail, and is therefore able to carry out His Will and keep His Promise, or if this is just a fantasy. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/12/2015 3:00 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Well, the researchers pretended that they knew, back then and are still advocating regulations rather then new tech, That's a phony charge. NOBODY is advocating regulation instead of new technology. In fact there are subsidies for encouraging the use of PV and wind. There are research grants for developing better PV and better batteries and other energy storage systems. The validity of a science is it's ability to predict. I myself, advocate, solar energy and clean energy alternative research, Now! Research is uncertain. You can't just order up technological breakthroughs. So failing to implement corrections and mitigations using the techonlogy we have is like sitting around hoping. People who advocate regulations of the serfs require a vigorous woodplane, to the face. There are no serfs; although there are shills for fossil fuel industry. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
The problem with climate change is that it's a tragedy of the commons - it doesn't confer much accountability on most people, who if they forewent all the emissions made in their name would have no noticeable impact - only those who are in a position to do anything about it could perhaps be considered accountable, such as politicians and business leaders, and in particular people who deliberately try to stop us doing anything about it - does the Quran have anything to say about people like the CEOs of big oil companies? On 13 May 2015 at 11:52, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 6:28 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? Regarding the heating of the seas? No, it's already decreed. This chapter is making the point that this Quran is indeed a message, and reckoning is indeed decreed, hence take warning and prepare for accountability and an eternal life in the hereafter. You can read it here: http://quran.com/81 Samiya On 12 May 2015 at 23:28, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/12/2015 5:31 PM, LizR wrote: The problem with climate change is that it's a tragedy of the commons - it doesn't confer much accountability on most people, Right. The free-market solution to a tragedy of the commons is to give someone ownership of the commons, i.e. in this case the right to dump CO2 into it. The obvious entity is some world EPA who would sell rights to dump and pay someone to extract and sequester the CO2 as necessary, or more likely inject sulfur particles into the upper atmosphere to increase reflectivity (what could possibly go wrong?). Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 12-May-2015, at 7:31 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: The problem with climate change is that it's a tragedy of the commons - it doesn't confer much accountability on most people, who if they forewent all the emissions made in their name would have no noticeable impact - only those who are in a position to do anything about it could perhaps be considered accountable, such as politicians and business leaders, and in particular people who deliberately try to stop us doing anything about it - does the Quran have anything to say about people like the CEOs of big oil companies? 1) The Quran reminds us that humans have been made Incharge of Earth and hence are responsible for the welfare of the Earth and all in it 2) The Quran also tells us that we will be held accountable for all that we've been gifted with, hence the more worldly riches or power one has, the greater the responsibility and the greater the accountability So yes, it speaks of all of us and says that every action, intention, everything is being recorded and will be replayed and the criminals will not be able to say anything, rather their bodies will bear witness against themselves. Humans will be recompensed in full in complete justice, and nobody will be wronged in the least. Samiya On 13 May 2015 at 11:52, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-May-2015, at 6:28 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? Regarding the heating of the seas? No, it's already decreed. This chapter is making the point that this Quran is indeed a message, and reckoning is indeed decreed, hence take warning and prepare for accountability and an eternal life in the hereafter. You can read it here: http://quran.com/81 Samiya On 12 May 2015 at 23:28, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Well your eyes must be very old indeed, because methane releases go back at least 55 million years, when the great warming occurred and did change the climate. Moreover, what are you advocating for a fix for this dilemma? This is where X crosses Y. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 12:16 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 11 May 2015 at 15:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? But it is happening, as Brent's graphs (plus thousands of scientific measurements, hundreds of articles, etc) illustrate. The fact that it isn't yet a catastrophe is down to the scale of the phenomena involved. You appear to be expecting a cartoon version of events, and when it doesn't arrive (within a ridiculously short timespan, to boot) saying that therefore it isn't happening. (Or something like that - it's always hard to tell exactly what you're saying, due to the weird political slant you put on everything.) But since you've given me the choice, I guess I'm going to have to believe my own eyes. I've seen plenty of evidence for higher temperatures, melting ice, methane bubbling out of the sea, violent storms, low-lying islands being swamped ... yep, the eyes have it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Well, the researchers pretended that they knew, back then and are still advocating regulations rather then new tech, The validity of a science is it's ability to predict. I myself, advocate, solar energy and clean energy alternative research, Now! People who advocate regulations of the serfs require a vigorous woodplane, to the face. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 8:04 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too Yes, I can't see any point in continuing to deny the science, attack the people, etc. Maybe it was reasonable in the 80s or 90s but the evidence is overwhelming now. No one (or very few people) do it with the LHC, so why the IPCC? - unless, of course, there are some vested interests involved, which are putting out disinformation. But you'd think most people would see through that ... unless they have their own vested interests perhaps...? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 12 May 2015 at 22:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well your eyes must be very old indeed, because methane releases go back at least 55 million years, when the great warming occurred and did change the climate. Yes, I know. I've seen some of the evidence - the fungus spike and all that. Very nasty, by the looks of it. Moreover, what are you advocating for a fix for this dilemma? This is where X crosses Y. This is the hard part. My first recommendation is to stop denying that it's happening, if anyone still is. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 12 May 2015 at 22:00, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, the researchers pretended that they knew, back then and are still advocating regulations rather then new tech, The validity of a science is it's ability to predict. I myself, advocate, solar energy and clean energy alternative research, Now! People who advocate regulations of the serfs require a vigorous woodplane, to the face. I don't know about researchers advocating anything. If they are recommending we reduce emissions or suffer the consequences, that isn't advocating. These are scientists, so they shouldn't be suggesting policies, just recommending that (within whatever margins of error) a certain course of action will lead to a certain result. It isn't in their area of expertise to say how to bring about that course of action. Can you tell me which researchers are saying what? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? On 12 May 2015 at 23:28, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Were you trying to make a point? Maybe that science has moved on and become more exact since then? On 13 May 2015 at 01:56, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Follow up, I just received this news item in my email- The Washington Post.. NEWS FLASH The Arctic Ocean is warming up. The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable. * * * * * * * * * *I must apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 93 years ago.* -Original Message- From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 6:04 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too Well your eyes must be very old indeed, because methane releases go back at least 55 million years, when the great warming occurred and did change the climate. Moreover, what are you advocating for a fix for this dilemma? This is where X crosses Y. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 12:16 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 11 May 2015 at 15:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? But it is happening, as Brent's graphs (plus thousands of scientific measurements, hundreds of articles, etc) illustrate. The fact that it isn't yet a catastrophe is down to the scale of the phenomena involved. You appear to be expecting a cartoon version of events, and when it doesn't arrive (within a ridiculously short timespan, to boot) saying that therefore it isn't happening. (Or something like that - it's always hard to tell exactly what you're saying, due to the weird political slant you put on everything.) But since you've given me the choice, I guess I'm going to have to believe my own eyes. I've seen plenty of evidence for higher temperatures, melting ice, methane bubbling out of the sea, violent storms, low-lying islands being swamped ... yep, the eyes have it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 12-May-2015, at 6:28 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does God give any suggestions as to what we should do? Regarding the heating of the seas? No, it's already decreed. This chapter is making the point that this Quran is indeed a message, and reckoning is indeed decreed, hence take warning and prepare for accountability and an eternal life in the hereafter. You can read it here: http://quran.com/81 Samiya On 12 May 2015 at 23:28, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:18 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? I came across this report while trying to comprehend a verse of the Quran which foretells the heating of the seas. This might be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-seas-boil.html Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/10/2015 6:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, I think most of the public would recognize you as a dishonest fossil fuel shill, pretending to want a solution while spreading the obfuscating lies that there is no problem. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Follow up, I just received this news item in my email- The WashingtonPost.. NEWS FLASH The Arctic Ocean is warming up. The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some placesthe seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the CommerceDepartment yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radicalchange in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arcticzone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as farnorth as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed thegulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, thereport continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirelydisappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vastshoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, arebeing encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise andmake most coastal cities uninhabitable. * * * * * * * * * I must apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was fromNovember 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post -93 years ago. -Original Message- From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 6:04 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too Well your eyes must be very old indeed, because methane releases go back at least 55 million years, when the great warming occurred and did change the climate. Moreover, what are you advocating for a fix for this dilemma? This is where X crosses Y. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, May 12, 2015 12:16 am Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 11 May 2015 at 15:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? But it is happening, as Brent's graphs (plus thousands of scientific measurements, hundreds of articles, etc) illustrate. The fact that it isn't yet a catastrophe is down to the scale of the phenomena involved. You appear to be expecting a cartoon version of events, and when it doesn't arrive (within a ridiculously short timespan, to boot) saying that therefore it isn't happening. (Or something like that - it's always hard to tell exactly what you're saying, due to the weird political slant you put on everything.) But since you've given me the choice, I guess I'm going to have to believe my own eyes. I've seen plenty of evidence for higher temperatures, melting ice, methane bubbling out of the sea, violent storms, low-lying islands being swamped ... yep, the eyes have it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 11 May 2015 at 15:04, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? But it is happening, as Brent's graphs (plus thousands of scientific measurements, hundreds of articles, etc) illustrate. The fact that it isn't yet a catastrophe is down to the scale of the phenomena involved. You appear to be expecting a cartoon version of events, and when it doesn't arrive (within a ridiculously short timespan, to boot) saying that therefore it isn't happening. (Or something like that - it's always hard to tell exactly what you're saying, due to the weird political slant you put on everything.) But since you've given me the choice, I guess I'm going to have to believe my own eyes. I've seen plenty of evidence for higher temperatures, melting ice, methane bubbling out of the sea, violent storms, low-lying islands being swamped ... yep, the eyes have it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 11 May 2015 at 17:39, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Well, it means it's happening, it's not 100% predictable by humans (no surprise really), and we should really do something about it before it's too late. The $64,000 question being - what? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/10/2015 5:04 PM, LizR wrote: Yes, I can't see any point in continuing to deny the science, attack the people, etc. Maybe it was reasonable in the 80s or 90s but the evidence is overwhelming now. No one (or very few people) do it with the LHC, so why the IPCC? - unless, of course, there are some vested interests involved, which are putting out disinformation. But you'd think most people would see through that ... unless they have their own vested interests perhaps...? They generally do have vested interests. I do. I like to fly to visit relatives across the country. But when I do I put as much CO2 into the air as all the automobile driving I do in a year. I like to race motorcycles and that's not good for the atmosphere. I don't like big vehicles, but some people like big SUV's...and power boats. I'm willing to cut back my contribution of CO2 (I bought a plug-in hybrid) and I'm having PV panels installed. But I'm not willing to inconvenience myself very much unless other people are willing to share some sacrifice. Brent If everybody does just a little, only a little will get done. --- Donald McKay, withouthotair.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, or at least inaccurate. Last, wheres the big push for solar, and I mean a very big push as if the climate leftists were really serious? Why, its taking a backseat to Regulations and Regulators, which seems to be the prime goal, rather than a true fix. At this point, curious, interested, folk, might start getting suspicious of the motives of our would-be saviors, who seem disinterested with saving, but real interested in controling-people, not climate. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 03:33 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_2.1_66f815b0-a43a-4f72-ba7a-1fe58fd9c6ba div bgcolor=#FF text=#00 class=aolReplacedBody div class=aolmail_moz-cite-prefix On 5/10/2015 5:41 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: /div blockquote cite=about:blank font color=black face=arial size=2 the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! /font /blockquote font face=Courier New, Courier, monospaceNo has one ever said by 2015, or Auckland becoming a desert. The exaggeration is all in your strawmen. Mann's hockey stick is still here /font img alt= height=521 width=691 src=https://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=29968369partId=2.2saveAs=gdeeebdi.png; Brent p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
European Space Agency (ESA) has this to report about Glacial Melt: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/GOCE_reveals_gravity_dip_from_ice_loss What does this mean for Global Warming? Samiya On 10-May-2015, at 10:04 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 09:19 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too But Brent just posted a graph showing that the hockey stick is alive and well. Although the phrase hockey stick, like Big Bang' and Cubism was invented in an attempt to deride the subject - but unfortunately the deriders have been more or less forgotten (except as the author of some great SF and discoverer of solar nucleosynthesis, in one case) by comparison with the terms they invented. And the hockey stick is still beating deniers about the head. On 11 May 2015 at 13:02, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, or at least inaccurate. Last, wheres the big push for solar, and I mean a very big push as if the climate leftists were really serious? Why, its taking a backseat to Regulations and Regulators, which seems to be the prime goal, rather than a true fix. At this point, curious, interested, folk, might start getting suspicious of the motives of our would-be saviors, who seem disinterested with saving, but real interested in controling-people, not climate. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 03:33 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 5/10/2015 5:41 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! No has one ever said by 2015, or Auckland becoming a desert. The exaggeration is all in your strawmen. Mann's hockey stick is still here gdeeebdi.png Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Hmmm. He does present a graph, but looking at the weather over 20 plus years, climate catastrophe as they now call it, is not happening. The cause and effect preached by the progressive intelligensia, or nomeklatura, is not occuring. What climate schmucks are peddling, is something once said by philosopher, Groucho Marx, who said: who are you going to believe, me, or your own two eyes? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 09:19 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_1.2_00471e92-1c05-4dd6-af7e-0f2b60417c47 div dir=ltr But Brent just posted a graph showing that the hockey stick is alive and well. Although the phrase hockey stick, like Big Bang' and Cubism was invented in an attempt to deride the subject - but unfortunately the deriders have been more or less forgotten (except as the author of some great SF and discoverer of solar nucleosynthesis, in one case) by comparison with the terms they invented. And the hockey stick is still beating deniers about the head. /div div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 11 May 2015 at 13:02, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, or at least inaccurate. Last, wheres the big push for solar, and I mean a very big push as if the climate leftists were really serious? Why, its taking a backseat to Regulations and Regulators, which seems to be the prime goal, rather than a true fix. At this point, curious, interested, folk, might start getting suspicious of the motives of our would-be saviors, who seem disinterested with saving, but real interested in controling-people, not climate. span class=aolmail_im aolmail_HOEnZb Sent from AOL Mobile Mail /span span class=aolmail_im aolmail_HOEnZb-Original Message- From: meekerdb a target=_blank href=mailto:meeke...@verizon.net;meeke...@verizon.net/a To: everything-list a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a /span span class=aolmail_im aolmail_HOEnZbSent: Sun, May 10, 2015 03:33 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too /span div class=aolmail_HOEnZb div class=aolmail_h5 div div On 5/10/2015 5:41 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: blockquote font color=black face=arial size=2 the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! /font /blockquote font face=Courier New, Courier, monospaceNo has one ever said by 2015, or Auckland becoming a desert. The exaggeration is all in your strawmen. Mann's hockey stick is still here /font img alt= height=521 width=691 src=https://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=29968410partId=2saveAs=gdeeebdi.png; Brent p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Yes, I can't see any point in continuing to deny the science, attack the people, etc. Maybe it was reasonable in the 80s or 90s but the evidence is overwhelming now. No one (or very few people) do it with the LHC, so why the IPCC? - unless, of course, there are some vested interests involved, which are putting out disinformation. But you'd think most people would see through that ... unless they have their own vested interests perhaps...? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
But Brent just posted a graph showing that the hockey stick is alive and well. Although the phrase hockey stick, like Big Bang' and Cubism was invented in an attempt to deride the subject - but unfortunately the deriders have been more or less forgotten (except as the author of some great SF and discoverer of solar nucleosynthesis, in one case) by comparison with the terms they invented. And the hockey stick is still beating deniers about the head. On 11 May 2015 at 13:02, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Brent, very true in the sense that I was illustrating (joking) to Liz (a terrible Kiwi!), that the hockey stick, the predictions for a tropical Britian, did not come about. Hence, the constant name changing and re-selling of global warming to anthropogenic global warming, to Climate Catastrophe!! The hockey stick was sawed to bits by the (ahem!) Pause that the climate exaggerators sought to promote. Their predictions failed, simply pur, which is why most of the public views climatologists as self serving liars, or at least inaccurate. Last, wheres the big push for solar, and I mean a very big push as if the climate leftists were really serious? Why, its taking a backseat to Regulations and Regulators, which seems to be the prime goal, rather than a true fix. At this point, curious, interested, folk, might start getting suspicious of the motives of our would-be saviors, who seem disinterested with saving, but real interested in controling-people, not climate. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 10, 2015 03:33 PM Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 5/10/2015 5:41 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! No has one ever said by 2015, or Auckland becoming a desert. The exaggeration is all in your strawmen. Mann's hockey stick is still here Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Well, yes Liz. If scientists won't try to help as a matter of principle, then religionists, no matter how gooey-minded, will step in. Brent's late friend, Vic, saw his role as shooting down nonsensical thinking, like religion, or even non-conformist thinking by scientists. This is also the mind set of SciAm, and they have been wrong on at least two occasions. One is when they called nanotechnology, a Cargo Cult, and the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! The same thing that Vic Stenger did is now peformed by physicist, Sean Carrol, who writes for SciAm, and like to play the role of debunker. Debunking is ok, but neither bakes bread, nor build bridges, nor provides clean energy. Great debunker, bad on reducing the sad stuff. Larry Krauss, the same. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 9, 2015 10:15 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too I'm not so keen to read (or watch) stuff online that takes more than a few minutes, but I will almost certainly read that in full when my handy go-anywhere, random access information storage system (also known as the paper copy of Scientific American) arrives in the post. In the meantime the bits I looked at seemed to be ambiguous as to whether the small-p platonic objects that are assumed to exist despite the impossibility of proof or direct observation are of a mathematical, or what is called on this list primary physical nature. But maybe I missed something, and it will make more sense when I get around to reading the whole thing. And yes, ultimately science does need to provide hopefulness to be a worthwhile enterprise - as it already does for millions of people suffering from diseases, genetic conditions, lack of shelter - or just a lack of entertainment - and so on. (And as it would do for millions more if the richer people in the world got in touch with their humanity - as some are doing, but not yet enough - and helped out those less fortunate, especially the millions of children who still die of preventable diseases.) PS there is a mention of Aristotle, but only in passing. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
R: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
( There is a little discussion about Vic's paper in https://www.facebook. com/sabine.hossenfelder) scerir -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Even these poor positivists fools that say that Philosophy is dead don´t know that they are in fact doing Philosophy. But a very bad philosophy since they are doing philosophy without being conscious of it. In the other side, Plato did not mention that the ideas or models were in the mind of anyone. it was Aquinas who said that (in the mind of God). But the ideas of Plato comprised all lower as well as higher ideas. Atom is a candate, but also Man. or Justice. Modern scientists only deal with lower level objects of knowledge, the physical ones. Being them platonic or not, their philosophy is too poor and hardly a little less worthless that the positivist one, since it lacks consideration for almost all objects of knowledge that has interests for humans. What these modern scientists platonist think about politics, justice, love good, evil? they have nothing to say. The classical philosophers had many things to say about that. These modern scientists sustain the same poor elaborated ideas elaborated by TV stats: Oprah, paranoid ecologists, interested politicians etc. What these scientists-philosophers have to teach to the world? Nothing except perhaps some distracting documentaries about stars and galaxies and big accelerators. good for sleeping after lunch in the weekend. Since the most important of the human life can not be measured, neither observed scientifically With what the Weinbergers, Klauss, Hawkings, Dawkins fill all his conceptual voids? with garbage pseudosciences, garbage politics and garbage spirituality. And still they firmly believe that they only consider facts. As some modern fool said: Now we know that we only can belive in what we see, like tolerance, democracy, human rights, spirituality and positive energy 2015-05-10 14:41 GMT+02:00 spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com: Well, yes Liz. If scientists won't try to help as a matter of principle, then religionists, no matter how gooey-minded, will step in. Brent's late friend, Vic, saw his role as shooting down nonsensical thinking, like religion, or even non-conformist thinking by scientists. This is also the mind set of SciAm, and they have been wrong on at least two occasions. One is when they called nanotechnology, a Cargo Cult, and the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! The same thing that Vic Stenger did is now peformed by physicist, Sean Carrol, who writes for SciAm, and like to play the role of debunker. Debunking is ok, but neither bakes bread, nor build bridges, nor provides clean energy. Great debunker, bad on reducing the sad stuff. Larry Krauss, the same. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 9, 2015 10:15 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too I'm not so keen to read (or watch) stuff online that takes more than a few minutes, but I will almost certainly read that in full when my handy go-anywhere, random access information storage system (also known as the paper copy of Scientific American) arrives in the post. In the meantime the bits I looked at seemed to be ambiguous as to whether the small-p platonic objects that are assumed to exist despite the impossibility of proof or direct observation are of a mathematical, or what is called on this list primary physical nature. But maybe I missed something, and it will make more sense when I get around to reading the whole thing. And yes, ultimately science does need to provide hopefulness to be a worthwhile enterprise - as it already does for millions of people suffering from diseases, genetic conditions, lack of shelter - or just a lack of entertainment - and so on. (And as it would do for millions more if the richer people in the world got in touch with their humanity - as some are doing, but not yet enough - and helped out those less fortunate, especially the millions of children who still die of preventable diseases.) PS there *is *a mention of Aristotle, but only in passing. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/10/2015 5:41 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: the second, is when they exaggerate the Impact of global warming. No Hockey Stick, no, Auckland turned to the Sahara dessert. At least not yet! No has one ever said by 2015, or Auckland becoming a desert. The exaggeration is all in your strawmen. Mann's hockey stick is still here Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/9/2015 2:39 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Yeah, I remember Vic Stenger, though I didn't know he thought all physicists were somehow, platonists. Not to be insulting to your late friend's memory, but for me (not for anyone else) the good professor, was a buzzkill. His seeming adherence to a kind of logical positivism, Instrumentalism. seemed, for me, to tune out any kind of hopefulness-though for him and most of his loyal readers, he was just saying no, to nonsensical crap. Vic didn't think it was the job of science to provide hopefulness. I appreciate his kind of thinking, but doubt that this is the best way for humans to proceed. Or to tell you how to proceed. SciAm is still a good info source, despite being inaccurate about global warming, and nanotechology. Everyone has an opinion, and you have seen mine, which now you can dismiss and ignore. I prefer refutation with data. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
If science cannot provide hopefulness then its useless really. Forget benefiting anyone, just fund my personal curiosity! It night be good for you and Stenger, Brent, but not for me. -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 9, 2015 5:44 pm Subject: Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too On 5/9/2015 2:39 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Yeah, I remember Vic Stenger, though I didn't know he thought all physicists were somehow, platonists. Not to be insulting to your late friend's memory, but for me (not for anyone else) the good professor, was a buzzkill. His seeming adherence to a kind of logical positivism, Instrumentalism. seemed, for me, to tune out any kind of hopefulness-though for him and most of his loyal readers, he was just saying no, to nonsensical crap. Vic didn't think it was the job of science to provide hopefulness. I appreciate his kind of thinking, but doubt that this is the best way for humans to proceed. Or to tell you how to proceed. SciAm is still a good info source, despite being inaccurate about global warming, and nanotechology. Everyone has an opinion, and you have seen mine, which now you can dismiss and ignore. I prefer refutation with data. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
Yeah, I remember Vic Stenger, though I didn't know he thought all physicists were somehow, platonists. Not to be insulting to your late friend's memory, but for me (not for anyone else) the good professor, was a buzzkill. His seeming adherence to a kind of logical positivism, seemed, for me, to tune out any kind of hopefulness-though for him and most of his loyal readers, he was just saying no, to nonsensical crap. I appreciate his kind of thinking, but doubt that this is the best way for humans to proceed. SciAm is still a good info source, despite being inaccurate about global warming, and nanotechology. Everyone has an opinion, and you have seen mine, which now you can dismiss and ignore. No problem, and no offense intended. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: Kirsten Meeker kmeeker...@gmail.com; Mike Stubblefield motod...@roadrunner.com; Jerry Clifford jerome.cliff...@csuci.edu; TG Trial Lawyer t...@tgtriallawyer.com; Stan Kohls bigko...@verizon.net Sent: Sat, May 9, 2015 03:55 PM Subject: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too div id=AOLMsgPart_2_9171a18f-4ba3-4320-8b48-aa4ab8b3fa89 div bgcolor=#FF text=#00 class=aolReplacedBody From my late friend Vic Stenger. Notice that from Vic's point of view all physicists are plationist (with a small p). There's no mention of Aristotle. div class=aolmail_moz-forward-container div dir=ltr By Victor J. Stenger, James A. Lindsay and Peter Boghossian | May 8, 2015 div iIn his final essay the late physicist Victor Stenger argues for the validity of philosophy in the context of modern theoretical physics./i div a class=aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext target=_blank href=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/;http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too//a /div /div /div /div Brent p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
On 5/9/2015 7:15 PM, LizR wrote: I'm not so keen to read (or watch) stuff online that takes more than a few minutes, but I will almost certainly read that in full when my handy go-anywhere, random access information storage system (also known as the paper copy of Scientific American) arrives in the post. In the meantime the bits I looked at seemed to be ambiguous as to whether the small-p platonic objects that are assumed to exist despite the impossibility of proof or direct observation are of a mathematical, or what is called on this list primary physical nature. But maybe I missed something, and it will make more sense when I get around to reading the whole thing. And yes, ultimately science does need to provide hopefulness to be a worthwhile enterprise - as it already does for millions of people suffering from diseases, genetic conditions, lack of shelter - or just a lack of entertainment - and so on. Science contributes but I think that is more comfort and security (which is better than hoping or comfort and security) and there's already an adequate supply of science for that. It's more shortage of education and technology and investment. (And as it would do for millions more if the richer people in the world got in touch with their humanity - as some are doing, but not yet enough - and helped out those less fortunate, especially the millions of children who still die of preventable diseases.) What if science removes their hope for an afterlife? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Physicists Are Philosophers, Too
From my late friend Vic Stenger. Notice that from Vic's point of view all physicists are plationist (with a small p). There's no mention of Aristotle. By Victor J. Stenger, James A. Lindsay and Peter Boghossian | May 8, 2015 /In his final essay the late physicist Victor Stenger argues for the validity of philosophy in the context of modern theoretical physics./ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/ Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
