Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On 14 Jan 2013, at 16:57, Richard Ruquist wrote: Hi Roger Clough, God is everything, including this list. Hmm... Richard David, complex variables and quantum theory go together Here I agree a lot. Unfortunately this remains a bit mysterious/open- problem in comp. But if the material hypostases gives QM, then complex variables will just comes from the fact that a finite number of result of Stern Gerlach experience have to remain equal for some rotation in 3D space. the comp mystery is in the 3D. Bruno On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist God is not righteous by what standards ? Yours? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/14/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-13, 08:52:51 Subject: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But if the material hypostases gives QM Yes, but indirectly. The creation/compactification of spacesubspace also released matter energy. In string theory it is the compactified subspace that spawned arithmetic computations. The matter energy plus evolution spawned biological complexity physical consciousness. Just as the Mind/Body duality is based on strings connecting everybody fermion to a BEC mind membrane, The Dreams/physical Consciousness Pratt Duality is based on entanglement due to isomorphanisms in BEC media to boot. The compactified crystalline material subspace contains a Platonia of geometric mathematical levels including of course complex variables on a membrane as well as the laws and constants of physics. My model is from a physicist perspective. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi Richard Ruquist God is not righteous by what standards ? Yours? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/14/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-13, 08:52:51 Subject: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi Roger Clough, God is everything, including this list. Richard David, complex variables and quantum theory go together On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist God is not righteous by what standards ? Yours? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/14/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-13, 08:52:51 Subject: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi Roger Clough, On 13 Jan 2013, at 11:37, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal No, the Devil would never disparage reason. For reason, as we can see on this list, is the father of doubt. We are on the domain where we might disagree a lot. I hope you don't mind. I think that: doubt = sanity, and absence of doubt = madness. Reason, for example through Aquinas' 5 proofs of God, can get you no closer to God than plausibility. You have to take the blind leap of faith to actually reach God. I think you need only to look inward, and stop using words. You need only to open the mind of your brain to the mind of your heart, or perhaps just to have a good connection between your left and right brain. I think that if you ask a blind faith, you can only favor atheism. See how clever Satan is, using perfectly reasonable questions and common sense to deceive Eve into eating the apple: The Fall 3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” And we know she will not, unless dying means eyes opening and seeing that we are naked, that is living on the terrestrial plane. So either Eve lied, or God lied to Eve. The serpent just told the truth. How weird! 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” The first prohibition law. That God looks like the incarnation of the authoritative argument. Looks like the killer of the doubting reason, and the hesitating democracy (when sane). 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, So the serpent was right. Unless again dying means (in paradise) living (on earth). Are we dead? and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. The end of innocence. That text might be an echo of the climate-change passage where we lived first in trees, and were eating and drinking in a generous jungle, and probably naked, in an hot climate, to a more cold period, with much less food and much difficulties to get it and keep it. It might be an echo of a humanity nostalgia for its childhood, and an echo of the passage of childhood (with the father and the mother providing food and warm) to adulthood where usually you have to find those things by yourself. It might be an echo for the penible truth that knowledge is not always fun, it can hurt. The one believing in the one (truth) fears mainly the hurting due to the lies deposit on the truth, as when the truth win, the shock is proportional to the thickness of the lies. Truth is a queen which win all the wars, and this without any army. But she is patient, as the Löbian number can make *quite* long detours. Roger, that text is terribly hard to interpret. From comp it can still describe a genuine meeting with God, but then it should have been never written. Some truth are just non doubtable, but when asserted, generates the infinitely many doubts. In that sense, the fall is closer to the Plotinian and neoplatonic fall, with the birth of matter as its main consequence. I favor the second interpretation, but it inverts completely life and death. You are living when you are ignorant in the paradise, and you are dead when you get the knowledge that you are naked on earth. Or God is a liar. But I insist. Such text are not easy to interpret. Bruno [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/13/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-12, 17:41:09 Subject: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On 12 Jan 2013, at 12:03, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb As you observe, beliefs can be slippery, because reason is the devil's whore. That's a rumor propelled by the Devil :) Reason is bad only for those of bad faith. Religion does not oppose with reason. It extends it. Reason is the best ally to honest religion. Reason is the enemy of those who want to manipulate you in religion's name. From your post, I am sure you agree on this at some level. The more you trust God, the less you fear the use of reason, even if not especially in theology. To oppose science and faith perverts ... science and faith. I think. Bruno That's why
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On 13 Jan 2013, at 14:52, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Apparently God lied to Eve. He said that eating the fruit would kill her, but she only got the illumination (I am naked), and then live on earth. Unless God calls birth what we call death, and vice versa. Hmm... I don't know. I am not sure we can judge God, nor even any creatures. We can only evaluate contract unbalance, and possible dangers, not moral values, or then just for ourselves. (speculating a bit from comp and possible attempts to make sense of the bible). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: God is everything, including this list. Then God means nothing because meaning needs contrast. If everything that exists and everything that doesn't exist and everything you can imagine and everything that you can't imagine has the property of being Klogknee then the word Klogknee means nothing. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 Jan 2013, at 14:52, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Apparently God lied to Eve. He said that eating the fruit would kill her, but she only got the illumination (I am naked), and then live on earth. Such illumination eventually led to nuclear weapons by which we may eventually drive eve's race into extinction. Richard Unless God calls birth what we call death, and vice versa. Hmm... I don't know. I am not sure we can judge God, nor even any creatures. We can only evaluate contract unbalance, and possible dangers, not moral values, or then just for ourselves. (speculating a bit from comp and possible attempts to make sense of the bible). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:49 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: God is everything, including this list. Then God means nothing because meaning needs contrast. If everything that exists and everything that doesn't exist and everything you can imagine and everything that you can't imagine has the property of being Klogknee then the word Klogknee means nothing. John K Clark The universe provides sufficient contrasting objects, some even consciousness. However, one may identify various aspects of god and thereby cover all the kinds of gods that people might want to have. At the top level we want the most comprehensive god possible. I say that omniscience is the most comprehensive aspect of a god. Such a comprehensive god is consistent with Indra's Net of Jewels, each reflecting the entire universe; and certainly consistent with the monads of liebniz, each having perception of the entire universe; And perhaps the universal cubic lattice of string theory Calabi-Yau Compact Manifold (CM) particles, each conjectured to map the entire universe is also a most comprehensive god.. In the next level down, omniscience is locally sacrificed for power, a quantum dynamic duality between power and omniscience, a kind of consciousness inverse uncertainty principle in the quantum mechanics of consciousness that even works on the human level.* *In order to focus consciousness on a project, you have to block out all other sources of information. Richard, complex variables go with quantum mechanics -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi Bruno Marchal No, the Devil would never disparage reason. For reason, as we can see on this list, is the father of doubt. Reason, for example through Aquinas' 5 proofs of God, can get you no closer to God than plausibility. You have to take the blind leap of faith to actually reach God. See how clever Satan is, using perfectly reasonable questions and common sense to deceive Eve into eating the apple: The Fall 3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/13/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-12, 17:41:09 Subject: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On 12 Jan 2013, at 12:03, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb As you observe, beliefs can be slippery, because reason is the devil's whore. That's a rumor propelled by the Devil :) Reason is bad only for those of bad faith. Religion does not oppose with reason. It extends it. Reason is the best ally to honest religion. Reason is the enemy of those who want to manipulate you in religion's name. From your post, I am sure you agree on this at some level. The more you trust God, the less you fear the use of reason, even if not especially in theology. To oppose science and faith perverts ... science and faith. I think. Bruno That's why we Lutherans rely first on faith (trust in God). Second on the Bible. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/12/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-11, 17:42:15 Subject: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS. On 1/11/2013 2:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM, wrote: In a message dated 1/11/2013 2:27:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, jasonre...@gmail.com writes: 1) Choose some religion, it doesn't matter which 2) Find an idea some adherents of that religion put forward but almost no one seriously believes in or is easily shown to be inconsistent 3) Assume that because you have disproved one idea of one religion that all ideas found in all religions are false and/or unscientific 4) Bask in the feeling of superiority over those who are not so enlightened Jason Ok, so in Darwinian fashion you sort through hundreds of faiths, so what happens when you cannot dissprove a religion? You sort them down till you hit a toughie, does that make it automatically correct, or is it the intellectual limitation of the sorter? Your Basking, is angering many non-believers, even. Witness Higg's criticism of Dawkins. Believers, Jason, I suppose will merely, pray for your soul (poor lad!). Perhaps if you decided to create your own religion, that couldn't be disproved, based on physics, or math, you would be coming up with the best faith? Then we could all be converted to being Jasonites. Or Reschers-whichever you prefer? I'm nor sure I understand your point. My point was only that John's adherence to atheism, which he defines as belief in no Gods, is less rational than someone following his 4-step program to become a liberal theologian. In particular, it is the above step 3, rejecting all religious ideas as false without giving the idea a fair scientific evaluation, which is especially problematic. John is perhaps being prescient in turning a blind eye to these other ideas, as otherwise we might have the specter of a self-proclaimed atheist who finds scientific justification for after lives, reincarnation, karma, beings who exercise complete control over worlds of their design and creation, as well as a self-existent changeless infinite object responsible for the existence of all reality. He would rather avoid those topics altogether and take solace in denying
Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi meekerdb Just because you can prove something, doesn't mean that it's true. It's only true if it corresponds to reality. Yes, Luther hated the jews. It's always a bit of an embarassment. He was smart, but he wasn't holy. Lutherans don't believe that men can become saints anyway. Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. And I am a prime example of that. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/13/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-12, 19:34:35 Subject: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN On 1/12/2013 3:03 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb As you observe, beliefs can be slippery, because reason is the devil's whore. Can you give any reason to believe that? That's why we Lutherans rely first on faith (trust in God). Second on the Bible. So did Martin Luther rely on faith or the bible when he wrote, What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. Brent We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]. ---Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. This statement could be broadened to include god and therefore account for misery in this world. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: reason is the devil's whore. I'll bet if it supported their beliefs the religious would like reason just fine. That's why we Lutherans rely first on faith So God gave us a brain but doesn't want us to use it and He thinks the very highest virtue is stupidity. It's very hard to figure out why a omniscient would want us to be dumb, but it's very very easy to figure out why human charlatans would push this idea, stupid people are easier to control. Second on the Bible. I don't think anybody on this list has ever mentioned Grimm's Fairy Tales or quoted from that book, but the Bible is constantly talked about. Why the difference? Why is it that even in the 21'th century people still organize expeditions to find Noah's arc but not to find the giant shoe that the old lady lived in who had so many children she didn't know what to do? The shoe story is far more reasonable and intelligent than the Noah story and yet people look for the arc but not the giant shoe. Why? There can only be one answer, because when they were infants Mommy and Daddy told them the Bible was true and Grimm's Fairy Tales was not and the very young are genetically disposed to believe everything adults tell them even into adulthood; that is also the only reason that strongly held religious beliefs and geography have such a enormously strong relationship. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
Hi meekerdb As you observe, beliefs can be slippery, because reason is the devil's whore. That's why we Lutherans rely first on faith (trust in God). Second on the Bible. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/12/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-11, 17:42:15 Subject: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS. On 1/11/2013 2:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM, wrote: In a message dated 1/11/2013 2:27:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, jasonre...@gmail.com writes: 1) Choose some religion, it doesn't matter which 2) Find an idea some adherents of that religion put forward but almost no one seriously believes in or is easily shown to be inconsistent 3) Assume that because you have disproved one idea of one religion that all ideas found in all religions are false and/or unscientific 4) Bask in the feeling of superiority over those who are not so enlightened Jason Ok, so in Darwinian fashion you sort through hundreds of faiths, so what happens when you cannot dissprove a religion? You sort them down till you hit a toughie, does that make it automatically correct, or is it the intellectual limitation of the sorter? Your Basking, is angering many non-believers, even. Witness Higg's criticism of Dawkins. Believers, Jason, I suppose will merely, pray for your soul (poor lad!). Perhaps if you decided to create your own religion, that couldn't be disproved, based on physics, or math, you would be coming up with the best faith? Then we could all be converted to being Jasonites. Or Reschers-whichever you prefer? I'm nor sure I understand your point. My point was only that John's adherence to atheism, which he defines as belief in no Gods, is less rational than someone following his 4-step program to become a liberal theologian. In particular, it is the above step 3, rejecting all religious ideas as false without giving the idea a fair scientific evaluation, which is especially problematic. John is perhaps being prescient in turning a blind eye to these other ideas, as otherwise we might have the specter of a self-proclaimed atheist who finds scientific justification for after lives, reincarnation, karma, beings who exercise complete control over worlds of their design and creation, as well as a self-existent changeless infinite object responsible for the existence of all reality. He would rather avoid those topics altogether and take solace in denying specific instances of inconsistent or silly definitions of God. But your parody fails as a serious argument because the ideas put forward by *almost all theists* include a very powerful, beneficent, all knowing superbeing who will judge and reward and punish souls in an after life and who answers prayers. Now some, far from powerful, humans with far from complete information, eliminated smallpox from the world. God therefore must have had that power and simply chose not to do it. So if any very powerful, very knowledgeable superbeing exists, it is not beneficent and not an acceptable judge of good and evil. These are not just a peripheral idea of theisms and it's falsehood is not a minor point because all theism insist that these ideas are definitive of their religion. John didn't say that all religions are false or unscientific. His point was that you can avoid those attributes by becoming a *liberal theologian* - and incidentally that nothing follows from liberal theology. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN
On 1/12/2013 3:03 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb As you observe, beliefs can be slippery, because reason is the devil's whore. Can you give any reason to believe that? That's why we Lutherans rely first on faith (trust in God). Second on the Bible. So did Martin Luther rely on faith or the bible when he wrote, What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. Brent We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]. ---Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
