Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 11:17:50PM -, David Nyman wrote: All this has massive implications for issues of will (free or otherwise), suffering, software uploading of minds, etc., etc. - which I've indicated in other posts. Consequently, I'd be really interested in your response, because

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Mohsen Ravanbakhsh
The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the computers are enough complicated. But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view. I can not see how you reduce the subjective experience of first person to the behavior

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The "subjective experience" is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the computers are enough complicated. But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view. I can not see how you reduce the subjective experience

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 19, 5:09 am, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, I was unable to perceive a question in what you just wrote. I haven't a response, since (sadly) I was unable to understand what you were talking about. :( Really? I'm surprised, but words can indeed be very slippery in

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the computers are enough complicated. But we're not talking about 3rd person point of

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Hello again, I mean your point could be made about the universe like this: Something which exists is contained/located somewhere. The universe is not contained nor located anywhere, therefore the universe does not exist. This is a logical inconsistency and prove nothing, except that the

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 09:40:59AM -, David Nyman wrote: On Jun 19, 5:09 am, Russell Standish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, I was unable to perceive a question in what you just wrote. I haven't a response, since (sadly) I was unable to understand what you were talking about. :(

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the computers are enough complicated. But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view.

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread Mark Peaty
[Grin] I just found your question here John. JM: 'What is electric field?' MP: It is just part of a way of talking about that which is. In combination with other good science it is an extremely useful description of many consistencies in the world we see. It helps us to be more exacting in

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious? - this looks best in fixed space font

2007-06-19 Thread Mark Peaty
my a/, b/, c/, look terrible in variable spaced font, they were prepared and sent in fixed font but the message I got back put them in variable spacing and so out of alignment. Regards Mark Peaty CDES [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.arach.net.au/~mpeaty/ Mark Peaty wrote: [Grin] I just

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Brent Meeker
Quentin Anciaux wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the computers are enough complicated. But we're not talking about

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Torgny Tholerus
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: What you call the subjective experience of first person is just some sort of behaviour. When you claim that you have the subjective experience of first person, I can see that you are just showing a special kind of behaviour. You

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Mark Peaty
TT; ' You behave as if you have the subjective experience of first person. And it is possible for an enough complicated computer to show up the exact same behaviour. But in the case of the computer, you can see that there is no subjective experience, there are just a lot of electrical

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 20:16:57 Brent Meeker wrote: Quentin Anciaux wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of behavior, if the

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 20:21:10 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Our language is very primitive. You can not decribe the reality with it. If you have a computer robot with a camera and an arm, how should that robot express itself to descibe what it observes? Could the robot say: I see a red brick

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Brent Meeker
Quentin Anciaux wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 20:16:57 Brent Meeker wrote: Quentin Anciaux wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: The subjective experience is just some sort of behaviour. You can make computers show the same sort of

xxxxx call piksel 2007

2007-06-19 Thread jonni jemp
x call 2007 x call for participation in a speculative 12 hour life coding event (organising hardware and software) to be held in Mid-November as part of the Piksel festival in Bergen, Norway. Deadline for email submission: July 31st 12AM [midnight] Life coding is a mapping of the

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread John Mikes
Mark, i don't keep my finger on the fast forward, maybe on the Next. YOU MISSED the essence of my question: it was directed to Colin's sentence as I recall: Chemical field IS electrical field So I referred to the explanatory force of Tohuvabohu IS vohubatovu Of course I appreciate Colin's insight,

Re: Asifism

2007-06-19 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 02:22:20AM +0800, Mark Peaty wrote: I heard someone on the radio the other day saying that Moore's Law [doubling every 2 years] predicts that computers in about 2050 will have gross processing power similar to that of the human brain. Well the architecture may be

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-19 Thread Colin Hales
Dear David, (see below.. I left your original text here... = 4) Belief in 'magical emergence' qualitative novelty of a kind utterly unrelated to the componentry. Hi Colin I think there's a link here with the dialogue in the 'Asifism'