On Tuesday 19 June 2007 20:16:57 Brent Meeker wrote: > Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote: > >> Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev: > >>> The "subjective experience" is just some sort of behaviour. You can > >>> make computers show the same sort of >behavior, if the computers are > >>> enough complicated. > >> > >> But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view. I can not see how > >> you reduce the subjective experience of first person to the behavior > >> that a third person view can evaluate! All the problem is this first > >> person experience. > >> > >> What you call "the subjective experience of first person" is just some > >> sort of behaviour. When you claim that you have "the subjective > >> experience of first person", I can see that you are just showing a > >> special kind of behaviour. You behave as if you have "the subjective > >> experience of first person". And it is possible for an enough > >> complicated computer to show up the exact same behaviour. But in the > >> case of the computer, you can see that there is no "subjective > >> experience", there are just a lot of electrical fenomena interacting > >> with each other. > >> > >> There is no first person experience problem, because there is no first > >> person experience. > >> > >> -- > >> Torgny Tholerus > > > > Like I said earlier, this is pure nonsense as I have proof that I have > > inner experience... I can't prove it to you because this is what this is > > all about, you can't prove 1st person pov to others. And I don't see why > > the fact that a computer is made of wire can't give it consciousness... > > there is no implication at all. > > > > Again denying the phenomena does not make it disappear... it's no > > explanation at all. > > > > Quentin > > I think the point is that after all the behavior is explained, including > brain processes, we will just say, "See, that's the consciousness there." > Just as after explaining metabolism and growth and reproduction we said, > "See, that's life." Some people still wanted to know where the "life" > (i.e. "elan vital") was, but it seemed to be an uninteresting question of > semantics. > > Brent Meeker
I don't think the comparison is fair... between 'elan vital' and consciousness. I don't think consciousness is just a semantic question. As I don't believe that you could pin point consciousness... until proved otherwise. Quentin --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---