On Tuesday 19 June 2007 20:16:57 Brent Meeker wrote:
> Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> > On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote:
> >> Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev:
> >>> The "subjective experience" is just some sort of behaviour. You can
> >>> make computers show the same sort of >behavior, if the computers are
> >>> enough complicated.
> >> But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view. I can not see how
> >> you reduce the subjective experience of first person to the behavior
> >> that a third person view can evaluate! All the problem is this first
> >> person experience.
> >> What you call "the subjective experience of first person" is just some
> >> sort of behaviour. When you claim that you have "the subjective
> >> experience of first person", I can see that you are just showing a
> >> special kind of behaviour. You behave as if you have "the subjective
> >> experience of first person". And it is possible for an enough
> >> complicated computer to show up the exact same behaviour. But in the
> >> case of the computer, you can see that there is no "subjective
> >> experience", there are just a lot of electrical fenomena interacting
> >> with each other.
> >> There is no first person experience problem, because there is no first
> >> person experience.
> >> --
> >> Torgny Tholerus
> > Like I said earlier, this is pure nonsense as I have proof that I have
> > inner experience... I can't prove it to you because this is what this is
> > all about, you can't prove 1st person pov to others. And I don't see why
> > the fact that a computer is made of wire can't give it consciousness...
> > there is no implication at all.
> > Again denying the phenomena does not make it disappear... it's no
> > explanation at all.
> > Quentin
> I think the point is that after all the behavior is explained, including
> brain processes, we will just say, "See, that's the consciousness there."
> Just as after explaining metabolism and growth and reproduction we said,
> "See, that's life." Some people still wanted to know where the "life"
> (i.e. "elan vital") was, but it seemed to be an uninteresting question of
> Brent Meeker
I don't think the comparison is fair... between 'elan vital' and
consciousness. I don't think consciousness is just a semantic question. As I
don't believe that you could pin point consciousness... until proved
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