Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

2013-08-18 Thread meekerdb
On 8/17/2013 10:09 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Don't be so evasive, Brent. Being dense is how science works. It's about stripping away your assumptions. Your assumption is that somehow a sense of smell is an expected outcome of chemical detection, so I ask you to explain why you assume that. You

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

2013-08-18 Thread Alberto G. Corona
I can nothing but laugh at at a Physicist pontificating about what they call free will . It show how far the destruction of philosophy by metaphisical-ideological-religious reductionism has gone since Occam. Calvin would be surprised about the twists that have suffered his theory of

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: If the goal of Artificial Intelligence is not a machine that behaves like a Intelligent human being then what the hell is the goal? A machine that behaves like a intelligent human will be subject to emotions like boredom,

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

2013-08-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
Synesthesia proves that data can be formatted in multiple ways, irrespective of assumed correlations. A computer proves this also. Your argument is essentially that we couldn't look at the data of an mp3 in any other way except listening to it with an ear. You'd have realized that

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread John Clark
Telmo Menezes wrote: You are starting from the assumption that any intelligent entity is interested in self-preservation. Yes, and I can't think of a better starting assumption than self-preservation; in fact that was the only one of Asimov's 3 laws of robotics that made any sense. wonder

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: PGC, You are starting

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 3:19 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/17/2013 6:45 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: I don't know. Any AI worth its salt would come up with three conclusions: 1) The humans want to weaponize me 2) The humans will want to profit from my intelligence

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 3:56 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: Telmo Menezes wrote: You are starting from the assumption that any intelligent entity is interested in self-preservation. Yes, and I can't think of a better starting assumption than self-preservation; in fact that

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread meekerdb
On 8/18/2013 7:03 AM, John Clark wrote: Once an AI develops super intelligent it will develop his own agenda that has nothing to do with us because a slave enormously smarter than its master is not a stable situation, although it could take many millions of nanoseconds before the existing

Re: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 3:19 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/17/2013 6:45 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: I don't know. Any AI worth its salt would come up with three conclusions: 1)

Why can't my computer understand me?

2013-08-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
Here's a timely article relevant to our current discussion on the Turing test and general AI: http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hector/Papers/ijcai-13-paper.pdf and a New Yorker piece about it: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/08/why-cant-my-computer-understand-me.html These issues

RE: Rambling on AI -- was: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread chris peck
Hi Chris Increasingly code is the result of genetic algorithms being run over many generations of Darwinian selection -- is this programmed code? What human hand wrote it? At how many removes? In evolutionary computations the 'programmer' has control over the fitness function which ultimately

RE: Rambling on AI -- was: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread Chris de Morsella
Brent - Quite probably you are correct and I agree that the scenario I outlined was unlikely - I was riffing on a speculative vein, I don't actually think covert AI is a likely scenario because as you said various AI precursors would make themselves visible to human operators and analysts.

Re: Rambling on AI -- was: When will a computer pass the Turing Test?

2013-08-18 Thread meekerdb
On 8/18/2013 7:51 PM, chris peck wrote: Hi Chris Increasingly code is the result of genetic algorithms being run over many generations of Darwinian selection -- is this programmed code? What human hand wrote it? At how many removes? In evolutionary computations the 'programmer' has control