[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 6:32 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > >> on 9/26/05 1:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> ...and it is on this very point that I was intrigued to see 
> that
> > > >>> John had appeared in the "What the *&$#$" movie, as it was 
> produced
> > > >>> by a controversial teaching and that he appears with other 
> teachers,
> > > >>> etc.
> > > >> 
> > > >> John appears to be a fairly hot commodity on the New Age 
> circuit,
> > > > sharing
> > > >> the podium with Neale Donald Walsch, Maryanne Williamson, and 
> the
> > like.
> > > > 
> > > > I hope he's keeping the speakers fees...
> > > 
> > > He is one of the few Westerners in the TMO who is paid real wages 
> by
> > the TMO
> > > - in the neighborhood of $110K as I recall.
> > 
> > I knew that Rick, but I figure when Maharishi passes the nephews 
> will
> > tighten the financial reigns even more. Sounds like there maybe
> > another fatwa or three in the future
> > 
> 
> What specific power do the nephews hold?

They are on the board of directors of most of the TM organizations. In
all the listings that I have seen at least one of them is on every board.

JohnY





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > [...]
> > > > > So you think that the TM leadership is supposed to be better 
> than 
> > > > > everyone else?
> > > > 
> > > > Wow, is that a long way around, just for 'leveling'.
> > > > No just better than unethical, immoral and illegal.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > so you DO expect more of TMO leadership on the moral/ethical 
> level than 
> > > you do of other people...
> > 
> > Yes I do, don't you?
> > I certainly don't expect them to behave less ethically than most
> > responsible people. They are promoting a program that 
> promises 'ideal
> > behavior in accord with all the laws of nature'. Their behavior
> > reflects on the teaching that they represent. To say nothing about 
> the
> > effects on the lives they influence directly. Ethical business
> > behavior would be a step up. It's not about the sex per se.
> > 
> 
> Sure sounds like it given how you've complained about it.

Well, even if I don't express it clearly in writing, it's not about
the sex per se, it's about ethics, and honesty and how that effects
both the teaching and the organiztion that supposedly represents that
teaching. [I just can't see how having sex with married women can be
defended as appropriate behavior (unless the couple agrees it's OK).
I'd certainly advise my daughters against it. It falls under 'averting
the pain that has not yet come']

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: What defines a cult?

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Does the TMO fall under the parameters of the following 
> > > definition of a cult?
> > 
> > Sounds a lot like the Army.
> > 
> > There's a tendency to look at these lists of
> > "cultic elements" only one way.  You also have
> > to ask whether the same elements are found in
> > groups nobody would consider cults.
> 
> You *could* ask whether these other groups
> are also cults.  For example, anyone who has
> ever worked for Microsoft would probably say
> that it is definitely one.

The military is very definitely a cult...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for Christian or other clergy who have a good word about TM

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello all, 
> > 
> > A friend is working on a TM project and is looking for clergy 
> > who ideally practice TM and have something nice to say about it. 
> > Let me know if you know anyone along these lines.
> 
> Ah, the rigorous TM scientific proof methodology at work.  :-)

But are they facing east when they interview people?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sal
> > > > > 
> > > > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not sure I get the reference to a "friend of Dorothy,"
> > > > but the use of the term "covered" had me LOL.  :-)
> > > 
> > > Dorothy as in "Wizard of Oz" as in Judy Garland,
> > > I believe.
> > 
> > I Googled it, and this seems unclear.  It could
> > just as easily have been Dorothy Parker, with her
> > circle of gay friends at the Algonquin in New York,
> > or Dorothy King, with a similar circle of friends
> > in Oscar Wilde's time.  Wherever it originated, it
> > seems to have been a closeted shorthand for, "Are
> > you gay?"
> 
> 
> It's more likely to be the Judy Garland connection because, as 
> everyone knows, gays like lavish Broadway musicals and Judy Garland 
> was the Queen of Broadway...

But the term predates Judy Garland.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If J and B are coercing students to have sex, why are the students
> not reporting it? A comprehensive reporting and review system is 
> in place.

And, like most such systems, it is a joke if the people
involved know that they are jeapardizing their career
or, in this instance, their spiritual liberation, by
using it.  The Army has such a system, too, but estimates
that less than 10% of the abuses are ever reported because
it is a given that any woman who reports abuse has ended
her career in the military.  Same thing in the TM movement.
Can you *imagine* how the reportee would be treated?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Tom T writes:
> > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > time. Tom
> > 
> > Judy writes:
> > Or none of the above...
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
> 
> Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.

As if he knew better than anyone else?  :-)

Sorry, just always amused by the "authority" thang.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[TurquoiseB]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TorquoiseB writes:
> Well, if they wanted to funnel some of the millions
> to me, I'd promise to give much of it away to truly
> worthy organizations.  But they can keep the screwing
> married women part.  Wouldn't touch it with a ten-
> foot...uh...pole.
> 
> Tom T:
> old joke. What happens when you cross a rooster and a 40 foot
> telephone pole? Answer: A rooster with a 40 foot penis who wants to
> reach out and touch you. ( Based on an AT&T long distance commercial
> of the 80's on reaching out to touch someone).

Yup, a joke, but also serious in my case.  Bad ju-ju.
Wouldn't touch it.  I don't even date women who are 
in a non-marriage committed relationship.  There are 
just some karmas ya just don't wanna mess with...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> >> My only criterion, for instance, is not to
> > > be overshadowed. 
> 
> Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, "I just don't want to be
> oveshadowed" gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and
> considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks
> perfectly in four places to reveal itself. 

Hiranyagarbha omelette; 3 gunas and more :-)

> Though I suspect this may be a "huh" moment for some.

Uh huh :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: So what's your Halloween costume going to be?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TorquoiseB writes:
> Anyway, if you were to attend such a party, or
> were just dressing up for Halloween, who/what
> would you be?
> 
> Tom T:
> I was invited to a costume party/wedding. Everyone was invited to come
> in costume. I went as Krishna, as the bride? had kind of hinted she
> thought I could carry it off. Went to the local used clothing and
> stuff store and bought $30 worth of junk jewelery (wore it all) and
> got blue dye and did my arms legs face and any part that showed with
> blue. wore blue shirt and shorts with pink granny fluffy slippers. No
> one seemed to know who I was till I laughed. Great fun. Can;t
> recommend it any higher for breaking all kinds of boundries. Tom

Good for you.  Yeah, that's the point.  "Dress-up" can
be remarkably liberating.  On one level, it's a metaphor
for what we do in each incarnation.  On another, it IS
what we do in every incarnation.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[Rory Goff]

> > > > Tom T writes: 
> > > > No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be 
able to  hold all that in the awake mind. 
> 
 akasha_108 wrote:  
> > > Then it must be possible to be able to
> > >  hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.

Rory wrote: 
> > Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, 
or 
> > between being "asleep" and being "awake" 

Akasha108 wrote:
> then why bring it up?

You tell me; you're the one who brought it up; I was just agreeing 
with you :-)

Rory wrote:
> -- though oddly enough, as 
> > we have seen,  

Akasha108 wrote:
> We have seen? 
> I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published?

Rory:
The Journal of Irreproducible Results, vol. 1008, no. 108 IIRC. No, 
seriously -- we have seen here on FFL, the only journal really worth 
reading at this moment IMNSHO :-)

Rory wrote:
> > only the experientially "awake" appear generally able 
> > to appreciate this to any visceral extent, 

Akasha108 wrote:
> How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not 
an
> Experience!! :)

Rory writes:
*lol* Yes; visceral appreciation is part of the full-bodied flavor 
of Understanding; it is not "an" experience, something enshrined in 
space and time as a memory or a desire, but we might certainly say 
that Understanding includes Experience, the two married together as 
ever-present "apperception" a la Jean Kline :-)

Rory:
> > while the self-
> > diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear

Akasha108:
> appear to whom?

Rory:
Yes, appear to whom? Who is (t)here? Who is questioning, and who is 
answering? Who is writing, and who is reading? How many of Us are 
there, anyhow?


> > rather 
> > strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
> > evident 

Akasha: 
> straining is a bummer

Rory: leads (or can lead) to hemorrhoids, I am told


> > "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) 
> > idealized criteria. 

Akasha: 
> Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black 
and
> white views, it appears.)

No, Tom generally likes mine, because we speak the truth; we just 
don't like anyone else's, because if they pretend they are someone 
else, they are lying :-) 
  
> > This self-denial would thus appear

Akasha: 
> appear to whom? 

Rory:
You tell me, Mr. A; appear to whom?
 
Akasha:
> appearance as in apparition?

Rory:
appear as in appear? :-)
 
> > always to be itself a self-
> > referent mistake of the intellect: 
> 
Akasha: 
> God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall?

Rory:
*lol* Who says it was faulty? And who is he?


> >attributing some imaginary (not-
> > here-now) properties 

Akasha:
> What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining
> things again? :) 

Rory:
Yes! :-) :-)
 
> > (or "shoulds") 

Akasha: 
> and who is your imaginary attributor?

Rory:
Yes, Who? It would appear there is only one of us :-)
 
> > to what is without properties 

Akasha:
> guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble 
burts

Rory: 
There you go with those hemorrhoids again :-)

> > or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here-
now, 

Akasha: 
> what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other 
will be
> aware of it.

Rory:
What other? You are confusing me :-)


> > and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary 
properties 
> > (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) 
here-
> > now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. 


Akasha: 
> Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed 
into
> such.

Rory:
Yes, of course. Only one.

 
> > And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through 
this 
> > same not-here-now overlay and abandon it 

Akasha:
> 
> I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed?

Rory:
Who said it was broken? Presumably that's the same one who who could 
conceive of its being fixed...? :-)
 
> > into what always is, has 
> > always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness 
of 
> > (not)self itself...

Akasha:
> Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good?

Rory:
It takes one to know one; you tell me; is it good? :-)

  
> > How can that which is and has always been and will always be 
self-
> > sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself 
from 
> > itself? 

Akasha:
> 
> I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent.

Rory:
Never? But what about All Possibilities? That was our whole point, 
wasn't it? :-)

Akasha:
But,
> have patience, in time such duality disolves and such silly 
thoughts
> cease to arise.

Rory:
Are we sure? How do we know this is true if we are not experiencing 
it in this moment?

 
> > My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or 
ones 
> > like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" 

Akasha:
> 
> What do you mean we, kimosabe?

Rory:
There is only "we," tonto :-)

> > and use them to *obscure* the 
> > reality 

[FairfieldLife] Re: What defines a cult?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> I'm wondering what exactly separates a cult from a "regular" religion 
> to begin with.  The main difference that I can see in most cases is 
> simply higher numbers.  Beyond that, aren't they all somewhat 
> cult-like?

In my opinion, yes, most of them are.  If you look 
up the actual definition of 'cult' in the dictionary,
you'll find that it has little to do with the modern,
perverted meaning of the word we throw around today.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for Christian or other clergy who have a good word about TM

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all, 
> 
> A friend is working on a TM project and is looking for clergy 
> who ideally practice TM and have something nice to say about it. 
> Let me know if you know anyone along these lines.

Ah, the rigorous TM scientific proof methodology at work.  :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: What defines a cult?

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Does the TMO fall under the parameters of the following 
> > > definition of a cult?
> > 
> > Sounds a lot like the Army.
> > 
> > There's a tendency to look at these lists of
> > "cultic elements" only one way.  You also have
> > to ask whether the same elements are found in
> > groups nobody would consider cults.
> 
> You *could* ask whether these other groups
> are also cults.  For example, anyone who has
> ever worked for Microsoft would probably say
> that it is definitely one.


...or Amway...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sal
> > > > 
> > > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure I get the reference to a "friend of Dorothy,"
> > > but the use of the term "covered" had me LOL.  :-)
> > 
> > Dorothy as in "Wizard of Oz" as in Judy Garland,
> > I believe.
> 
> I Googled it, and this seems unclear.  It could
> just as easily have been Dorothy Parker, with her
> circle of gay friends at the Algonquin in New York,
> or Dorothy King, with a similar circle of friends
> in Oscar Wilde's time.  Wherever it originated, it
> seems to have been a closeted shorthand for, "Are
> you gay?"


It's more likely to be the Judy Garland connection because, as 
everyone knows, gays like lavish Broadway musicals and Judy Garland 
was the Queen of Broadway...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: What defines a cult?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does the TMO fall under the parameters of the following 
> > definition of a cult?
> 
> Sounds a lot like the Army.
> 
> There's a tendency to look at these lists of
> "cultic elements" only one way.  You also have
> to ask whether the same elements are found in
> groups nobody would consider cults.

You *could* ask whether these other groups
are also cults.  For example, anyone who has
ever worked for Microsoft would probably say
that it is definitely one.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > > Hagelin is a figurehead for the university.  Indeed, he is 
> > BEYOND being a mere professor.
> > > 
> > > Why is  celebrity a factor for acts between consenting adults?
> >  
> > 
> > I don't think it should be a factor.
> > 
> > And, yes, I agree that anyone 18 years or older is old enough to 
> > freely choose whom to have sexual relations with.
> > 
> > Indeed, I don't buy the whole politically correct thing that is 
> > prevalent on campuses today that prevent relations between 
faculty 
> > and students...BUT if the standard IS that political 
correctness, 
> > then being a figurehead (hagelin is NOT a celebrity to any 
stretch 
> > of the imagination) IS way beyond what should be allowed.
> > 
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > He doesn't have supervisory responsibility for any students as 
far 
> > as I can see, so he is not violating meanstream  university 
standards. 
> > > 
> > > > If he is sleeping with students it would be on the order of 
10 
> > times  worse than if he were a professor...
> > > 
> > > For whom? The university? John's soul? The students involved? 
True
> > > Believers' mind sets?
> > 
> > Politically correct standards.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I am still missing something. You don't believe in towing to
> politically correct standards. And you dont think celebrity should 
be
> a major factor at a university. And you agree that college women 
are
> generally smart and savy enough to decide if and with whom they 
wish
> to engage in sex. 
> 
> And yet, you suggest that JH he is sleeping with students, it 
would be
> on the order of 10 times  worse than if he were a professor. I 
missed
> that logic seminar. Was it "Higher Order Linguistic Transforms of
> Pre-Cognitive Synaptic Logic Structures in a Post Modern World" ?


Yes.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > 
> > > > Sal
> > > 
> > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > 
> > I'm not sure I get the reference to a "friend of Dorothy,"
> > but the use of the term "covered" had me LOL.  :-)
> 
> Dorothy as in "Wizard of Oz" as in Judy Garland,
> I believe.

I Googled it, and this seems unclear.  It could
just as easily have been Dorothy Parker, with her
circle of gay friends at the Algonquin in New York,
or Dorothy King, with a similar circle of friends
in Oscar Wilde's time.  Wherever it originated, it
seems to have been a closeted shorthand for, "Are
you gay?"






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> 
> > > Let's say we don't get attached.  Let's say we've
> > > never *been* attached.  Let's say human beans have
> > > always been realized.
> > > 
> > > How far back would that apply, do you think, given
> > > that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full-
> > > blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually
> > > from earlier humanoid species?
> > 
> > Judy:
> > 
> > Don't you believe in creative design?
> 
> Huh?

Creationism...you know, Adam, Eve, the Snake, the whole damn thing...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[akasha_108]

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

>> My only criterion, for instance, is not to
> > be overshadowed. 

Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, "I just don't want to be
oveshadowed" gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and
considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks
perfectly in four places to reveal itself. 

Though I suspect this may be a "huh" moment for some.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: ...just change the names; the dance remains the same...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> > Sounds like great fun, unless you're the guy who has to put up 
> with 
> > all the pomp.
> 
> 
> ...what about the circumstance?

That depends...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sal
> > > > > 
> > > > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > > > Uns.
> > > > 
> > > > So Bevan managed to get 8 women pregnant?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Almost as good as Brian Jones' record...
> > 
> > Mine is 2.
> 
> Outside of marriage or a live-in responsible relationship?

The first. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[akasha_108]

> > > Hagelin is a figurehead for the university.  Indeed, he is 
> BEYOND being a mere professor.
> > 
> > Why is  celebrity a factor for acts between consenting adults?
>  
> 
> I don't think it should be a factor.
> 
> And, yes, I agree that anyone 18 years or older is old enough to 
> freely choose whom to have sexual relations with.
> 
> Indeed, I don't buy the whole politically correct thing that is 
> prevalent on campuses today that prevent relations between faculty 
> and students...BUT if the standard IS that political correctness, 
> then being a figurehead (hagelin is NOT a celebrity to any stretch 
> of the imagination) IS way beyond what should be allowed.
> 

> 
> > 
> > He doesn't have supervisory responsibility for any students as far 
> as I can see, so he is not violating meanstream  university standards. 
> > 
> > > If he is sleeping with students it would be on the order of 10 
> times  worse than if he were a professor...
> > 
> > For whom? The university? John's soul? The students involved? True
> > Believers' mind sets?
> 
> Politically correct standards.


Sorry, I am still missing something. You don't believe in towing to
politically correct standards. And you dont think celebrity should be
a major factor at a university. And you agree that college women are
generally smart and savy enough to decide if and with whom they wish
to engage in sex. 

And yet, you suggest that JH he is sleeping with students, it would be
on the order of 10 times  worse than if he were a professor. I missed
that logic seminar. Was it "Higher Order Linguistic Transforms of
Pre-Cognitive Synaptic Logic Structures in a Post Modern World" ?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[Rory Goff]

Rory wrote: 
> > Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, 
or 
> > between being "asleep" and being "awake" -- though oddly enough, 
as 
> > we have seen, only the experientially "awake" appear generally 
able 
> > to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self-
> > diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear rather 
> > strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
> > evident "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-
> > now) idealized criteria.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Or not.  My only criterion, for instance, is not to
> be overshadowed.

Judy, if that is a criterion that is not evidently present here-now, 
then I would respectfully suggest it is idealized, conceptual, and 
*obscuring* the perfect grace of the simple reality which is your 
birthright from yourself to yourself in this moment. In other words, 
I can pretty much guarantee you that as long as you are looking to 
be not overshadowed, that desire *itself* is going to overshadow 
you. You are bigger than the goal you are imagining; you can't 
shoehorn yourself with integrity into something that small. You 
can't deny any of it; you contain *all of it* :-)

> 
> > How can that which is and has always been and will always be 
self-
> > sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself 
from 
> > itself?
> > 
> > My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or 
ones 
> > like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" and use them to *obscure* the 
> > reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course 
appear 
> > quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly 
beautiful, 
> > etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love 
a 
> > good movie!

Judy wrote:
> Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory.
> 
> Let's say we don't get attached.  Let's say we've
> never *been* attached.  Let's say human beans have
> always been realized.
> 
> How far back would that apply, do you think, given
> that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full-
> blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually
> from earlier humanoid species?

Such is not precisely my understanding or experience, so far as self-
aware consciousness goes. That evidently exists a priori. Yes, we 
apparently incarnate or have incarnated earlier forms of primate (as 
well as countless other forms, of course), but as far as I can see, 
that self-realization or self-awareness has always been present, 
before dropping into those forms, while in those forms, and after 
leaving those forms.
 
> And then I've got another question or two.

As always, I am at your service, O She-who-is-wide-awake-even-in-
sleep :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > on 9/26/05 6:32 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > >> on 9/26/05 1:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >>> ...and it is on this very point that I was intrigued to see 
that
> > >>> John had appeared in the "What the *&$#$" movie, as it was 
produced
> > >>> by a controversial teaching and that he appears with other 
teachers,
> > >>> etc.
> > >> 
> > >> John appears to be a fairly hot commodity on the New Age 
circuit,
> > > sharing
> > >> the podium with Neale Donald Walsch, Maryanne Williamson, and 
the
> like.
> > > 
> > > I hope he's keeping the speakers fees...
> > 
> > He is one of the few Westerners in the TMO who is paid real wages 
by
> the TMO
> > - in the neighborhood of $110K as I recall.
> 
> I knew that Rick, but I figure when Maharishi passes the nephews 
will
> tighten the financial reigns even more. Sounds like there maybe
> another fatwa or three in the future
> 

What specific power do the nephews hold?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Interesting postmodern, feminist / post feminist perspectives.
> 
> -
> Open Debate: Sex with the Teacher
> 
> Click for a printer friendly version of this article
> E Ruth Klein
> 
> E R Klein argues that no good reason has yet been given for academic
> institutions to condemn consensual sexual relationships between
> students and lecturers. To reply, see details at the end of the 
article.

Heck, I was hesitant to become really good friends with my first 
Japanese teacher due to concerns. Mostly mine about his ability to give 
lousy grades to a friend. He DID learn that I wasn't angry about 
the "F" he eventually gave me for one class (passed with a C for Jpn 
102 after 4 tries -- YAY).

A similar situation exists with my new Japanese teacher who is a real 
hottie about 20 years younger than me (I'm 50).

Given my mental condition these days, its a given that the first time 
or two I take a class, I WILL fail -- who wants to put a friend into a 
situation of failing you?).




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:

> > Let's say we don't get attached.  Let's say we've
> > never *been* attached.  Let's say human beans have
> > always been realized.
> > 
> > How far back would that apply, do you think, given
> > that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full-
> > blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually
> > from earlier humanoid species?
> 
> Judy:
> 
> Don't you believe in creative design?

Huh?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> [Akasha108 wrote:]
> > > > Tom T writes: 
> > > > No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be 
able
> > > > to hold all that in the awake mind. 
> > > 
> > > Then it must be possible to be able to
> > >  hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.
> 
> > Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, 
or 
> > between being "asleep" and being "awake" -- though oddly enough, 
as 
> > we have seen, only the experientially "awake" appear generally 
able 
> > to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self-
> > diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear rather 
> > strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
> > evident "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-
> > now) idealized criteria.
> 
> Or not.  My only criterion, for instance, is not to
> be overshadowed.
> 
> 
> > How can that which is and has always been and will always be 
self-
> > sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself 
from 
> > itself?
> > 
> > My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or 
ones 
> > like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" and use them to *obscure* the 
> > reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course 
appear 
> > quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly 
beautiful, 
> > etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love 
a 
> > good movie!
> 
> Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory.
> 
> Let's say we don't get attached.  Let's say we've
> never *been* attached.  Let's say human beans have
> always been realized.
> 
> How far back would that apply, do you think, given
> that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full-
> blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually
> from earlier humanoid species?



Judy:

Don't you believe in creative design?


> 
> And then I've got another question or two.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: ...just change the names; the dance remains the same...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > on 9/26/05 10:42 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >> It's not necessary for me to go over her books in order 
to 
> see
> > > > > that a lot
> > > > >> gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence of what 
the 
> > TMO 
> > > has
> > > > >> accomplished? Much less, as far as I can see, with a much 
> > larger
> > > > > influx of
> > > > >> money. Also, I've seen fairly close up how Amma operates. 
> Very
> > > > > frugal and
> > > > >> self sacrificing. Nobody, including she, is living like a 
> > king.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's not necessary for me to go over Maharishi's books in 
> > order to
> > > > > see that a lot gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the 
evidence 
> > of
> > > > > what Yogananda's organisation has accomplished? Much less, 
as 
> > far 
> > > as
> > > > > I can see, with a much larger influx of money. Also, I've 
seen
> > > > > fairly close up how Maharishi operates. Very frugal and 
self
> > > > > sacrificing. Nobody, including he, is living like a king.
> > > > 
> > > > Just words dude. Please itemize for us what has been 
> > accomplished 
> > > with the
> > > > hundreds of millions of dollars. Have you really seen close 
up 
> > how 
> > > Maharishi
> > > > operates? Vast amounts of money are squandered on wacky 
schemes 
> > > that never
> > > > come to fruition. Tony Nader isn't living like a king? He is 
> one!
> > > 
> > > Money squandered isn't the same as living like a king. Being 
> > a "king" 
> > > in the TMO doesn't mean "living like a king" in the usual 
sense 
> of 
> > > the phrase.
> > 
> > 
> > It certainly does mean that as far as how King Tony is 
celebrated 
> > during those lavish ceremonies where he appears with his Crown 
on a 
> > throne and rides in a procession on an elephant and all that.
> > 
> > Next, we'll be seeing him do walkabouts with 7 or 8 Corgies at 
his 
> > feet...
> 
> Sounds like great fun, unless you're the guy who has to put up 
with 
> all the pomp.


...what about the circumstance?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sal
> > > > 
> > > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > > Uns.
> > > 
> > > So Bevan managed to get 8 women pregnant?
> > 
> > 
> > Almost as good as Brian Jones' record...
> 
> Mine is 2.

Outside of marriage or a live-in responsible relationship?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 2:28 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> What licentious behavior and why do you care?
> > > > 
> > > > Bevan and Hagelin are infamous womanizers. They have not 
limited
> > > > themselves to single women, they have no scruples, or at 
least 
> they
> > > > didn't for a looong time, about whose wife they sleep with. 
It 
> has
> > > > been going on for years, it has been talked about for years, 
it 
> has
> > > > been hashed and rehashed, it is not rumors, marriages have 
> broken 
> > up
> > > > over it. And no one says anything or cares about it.
> > > 
> > > A friend of mine who is a respected, long-time MUM faculty 
member 
> > said that
> > > even recently young coeds have been coming to him in tears, 
> because 
> > Hagelin
> > > has slept with them and then dumped them. So it still goes on.
> > 
> > 
> > If this is true, it is a major scandal waiting to happen.
> > 
> > It also suggest incredible contempt that Hagelin has for the TMO 
in 
> > that he feels it is SO weak that he has license to do all these 
> things 
> > without fear of being held accountable because they need him so 
> > badly...
> 
> Speaking as someone whose sexuality was once out of control (is 
> abstinence being "in control?), I can tell you that at least some 
> people sleep around because of stress/insecurity issues.


Hey, I'm just jealous...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > > on 9/26/05 10:06 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> Why would I care? Hmm, let's see...perhaps because
> > > > > >> of the unbelievable
> > > > > >> pompousness of HE the Honorable Dr. Morris when he
> > > > > >> arrogantly enforces
> > > > > >> policy that he creates while he seems to feel he is
> > > > > >> immune from the
> > > > > >> basics of respectful behavior as in please leave the
> > > > > >> wives of others
> > > > > >> alone and stop calling ladies into your office and
> > > > > >> propositioning them.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > > > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yeah, but it's the old thing of a charismatic, powerful 
man 
> > wowing 
> > > > out an
> > > > > impressionable younger woman. Whether or not Monica came 
on to 
> > him, 
> > > > Bill
> > > > > acted irresponsibly.
> > > > 
> > > > Sure. But does the behavior interfere with the ability to 
get 
> > the job 
> > > > done? In the case of Clinton and Lewinsky, it did, but only 
> > because 
> > > > of a major witch-hunt. 
> > > > 
> > > > Someone has said that Hagelin is sleeping with students, 
> > abandoning 
> > > > them to their tears. That's a problem that goes beyond the 
> > personal 
> > > > morality of those involved.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression 
is he 
> > has
> > > his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends 
a 
> > lot of
> > > time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> > > regular classes.
> > > 
> > > Does Haglin still teach courses? If not, then he is not 
sleeping 
> > wit
> > > his students, he dosn't have any.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hagelin is a figurehead for the university.  Indeed, he is 
BEYOND 
> > being a mere professor.
> 
> Why is  celebrity a factor for acts between consenting adults?




I don't think it should be a factor.

And, yes, I agree that anyone 18 years or older is old enough to 
freely choose whom to have sexual relations with.

Indeed, I don't buy the whole politically correct thing that is 
prevalent on campuses today that prevent relations between faculty 
and students...BUT if the standard IS that political correctness, 
then being a figurehead (hagelin is NOT a celebrity to any stretch 
of the imagination) IS way beyond what should be allowed.






> 
> He doesn't have supervisory responsibility for any students as far 
as
> I can see, so he is not violating meanstream university standards. 
> 
> > If he is sleeping with students it would be on the order of 10 
times 
> > worse than if he were a professor...
> 
> For whom? The university? John's soul? The students involved? True
> Believers' mind sets?

Politically correct standards.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[sparaig]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Tom T writes:
> > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > time. Tom
> > 
> > Judy writes:
> > Or none of the above...
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
> Judy:
> Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.
> 
> TomT:
> OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities.

Darn, you beat me to the "what" question.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Tom T writes:
> > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > time. Tom
> > 
> > Judy writes:
> > Or none of the above...
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
> 
> Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.

Who?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[sparaig]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom T writes:
> It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> time. Tom
> 
> Judy writes:
> Or none of the above...
> 
> Tom T:
> Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?

Huh?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> > > Tom T writes: 
> > > No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able 
> to  hold all that in the awake mind. 

 
> > Then it must be possible to be able to
> >  hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.
 
> Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or 
> between being "asleep" and being "awake" 

then why bring it up?

-- though oddly enough, as 
> we have seen,  

We have seen? 
I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published?

> only the experientially "awake" appear generally able 
> to appreciate this to any visceral extent, 

How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not an
Experience!! :)

> while the self-
> diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear

appear to whom?

> rather 
> strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
> evident 

straining is a bummer

> "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) 
> idealized criteria. 

Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black and
white views, it appears.)
 
> This self-denial would thus appear

appear to whom? 

appearance as in apparition?

> always to be itself a self-
> referent mistake of the intellect: 


God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall?

>attributing some imaginary (not-
> here-now) properties 

What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining
things again? :) 


> (or "shoulds") 

and who is your imaginary attributor?

> to what is without properties 

guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble burts

> or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here-now, 

what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other will be
aware of it.

> and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties 
> (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here-
> now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. 

Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed into
such.
 
> And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this 
> same not-here-now overlay and abandon it 

I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed?

> into what always is, has 
> always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of 
> (not)self itself...

Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good?
 
> How can that which is and has always been and will always be self-
> sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from 
> itself? 

I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent. But,
have patience, in time such duality disolves and such silly thoughts
cease to arise.
 
> My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones 
> like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" 

What do you mean we, kimosabe?

> and use them to *obscure* the 
> reality 

Like etching glass? Etched glass can be gorgeous, no?

> they are intended to *describe* 

Excuse my saying, but you seem obsessed with describing.

>(which can of course appear 
> quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, 
> etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a 
> good movie!

I rather look directly into the projector from 3 " away.
 
> Odd indeed, but as you say, All Possibilities...! :-)

Yes, all posibilities. So "All", that some may not fit into your
frameworks, which by definition, are limited.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 10:06 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> Why would I care? Hmm, let's see...perhaps because
> > > >> of the unbelievable
> > > >> pompousness of HE the Honorable Dr. Morris when he
> > > >> arrogantly enforces
> > > >> policy that he creates while he seems to feel he is
> > > >> immune from the
> > > >> basics of respectful behavior as in please leave the
> > > >> wives of others
> > > >> alone and stop calling ladies into your office and
> > > >> propositioning them.
> > > > 
> > > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > > 
> > > Yeah, but it's the old thing of a charismatic, powerful man 
wowing 
> > out an
> > > impressionable younger woman. Whether or not Monica came on to 
him, 
> > Bill
> > > acted irresponsibly.
> > 
> > Sure. But does the behavior interfere with the ability to get the 
job 
> > done? In the case of Clinton and Lewinsky, it did, but only 
because 
> > of a major witch-hunt. 
> > 
> > Someone has said that Hagelin is sleeping with students, 
abandoning 
> > them to their tears. That's a problem that goes beyond the 
personal 
> > morality of those involved.
> 
> 
> Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he 
has
> his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a lot 
of
> time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> regular classes.
> 
> Does Haglin still teach courses? If not, then he is not sleeping wit
> his students, he dosn't have any. Professors sleeping with THEIR
> students has long been a no no --  firable offense, though I
> understand it still happens. Sleeping with other students  or past
> students? Is that now a firable offense at most universities? 
> 
> While xing faculty dating their own currnet students, in other 
cases,
> it appears to boil down to "consenting adults". And an implicit
> assessemt of whether both parties are smart enough to make figure 
out
> how they want to act in an adult world and what the consequences 
are. 
> 
> Are 18-23 year old women general stupid and naive? Not in my
> observation. "Coed's in tears" sounds so retro. "He said he loved
> me!!!" she wails sobbing, while adjusting her bobby soxs. I mean 
even
> 30 years ago when I was in school, such a was pretty retro. Even 
then,
> undergraduate girls that dated professors, appeared often more
> sexually and relationship savy than the professors they dated.

My observation also. My favorite example of how women can show group 
denial was the time the GF of the local club pres (Baron of the local 
SCA) went out with the most notorious letcher in the Barony and then 
complaned that he had "raped" her on their date.

EXCUSE me? The guy that literally ALL the women loved to hate because 
he was so unfaithful and cavelier and she went out with him WHILE she 
was involved with someone else and had the gall to claim she 
was "raped?"
What was even more funny was how the other women took her side about 
the awful cad...

Like duh, of course he's a cad. Everyone knew he was a cad. He was 
everyone's favorite cad. This was the guy noone liked and all women 
hated. And she went out with him.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

[Akasha108 wrote:]
> > > Tom T writes: 
> > > No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able
> > > to hold all that in the awake mind. 
> > 
> > Then it must be possible to be able to
> >  hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.

> Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or 
> between being "asleep" and being "awake" -- though oddly enough, as 
> we have seen, only the experientially "awake" appear generally able 
> to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self-
> diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear rather 
> strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
> evident "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-
> now) idealized criteria.

Or not.  My only criterion, for instance, is not to
be overshadowed.


> How can that which is and has always been and will always be self-
> sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from 
> itself?
> 
> My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones 
> like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" and use them to *obscure* the 
> reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear 
> quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, 
> etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a 
> good movie!

Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory.

Let's say we don't get attached.  Let's say we've
never *been* attached.  Let's say human beans have
always been realized.

How far back would that apply, do you think, given
that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full-
blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually
from earlier humanoid species?

And then I've got another question or two.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > snip
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you think that Bevan and
> > > > > John engage in 
> > > > > lecentious behavior and why do you care?
> > > > 
> > > > Well, they do or they did. That is quite well known.
> > > > However your last question, if phrased, ..."why do we
> > > > care?" is very interesting if not used simply as a
> > > > defensive posture. Why do we care? Why do we hold
> > > > Bevan, John and MMY accountable to a certain standard?
> > > > It is apparently much more of an idealized fantasy
> > > > that we have than an authentic need that they have
> > > 
> > > Again, I think that the issue is lack of empathy.
> > > To the best of my knowledge Sparaig has never had
> > > to be held accountable in the TM organization for
> > > his everyday behavior, and whether it "measures
> > > up" to some "standard" for behavior.  (Other than
> > > the normal rank-and-filer stuff of making sure to
> > > hide any behavior that might get you disallowed
> > > from attending courses.)
> > 
> > 
> > Except, I never hid anything from anyone in order to get on 
> courses. 
> > Right now, I'm on Prozac and Adderal, and if that prevents me 
from 
> > going on courses, I'll accept that.
> > 
> > Mind you, I haven't tried to go on courses since before I started 
> > taking it, so who can say?
> 
> 
> May I ask what those drugs do and what they are for?

OCD and ADD, respectively.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: ...just change the names; the dance remains the same...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 10:42 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > >> It's not necessary for me to go over her books in order to 
see
> > > > that a lot
> > > >> gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence of what the 
> TMO 
> > has
> > > >> accomplished? Much less, as far as I can see, with a much 
> larger
> > > > influx of
> > > >> money. Also, I've seen fairly close up how Amma operates. 
Very
> > > > frugal and
> > > >> self sacrificing. Nobody, including she, is living like a 
> king.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > It's not necessary for me to go over Maharishi's books in 
> order to
> > > > see that a lot gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence 
> of
> > > > what Yogananda's organisation has accomplished? Much less, as 
> far 
> > as
> > > > I can see, with a much larger influx of money. Also, I've seen
> > > > fairly close up how Maharishi operates. Very frugal and self
> > > > sacrificing. Nobody, including he, is living like a king.
> > > 
> > > Just words dude. Please itemize for us what has been 
> accomplished 
> > with the
> > > hundreds of millions of dollars. Have you really seen close up 
> how 
> > Maharishi
> > > operates? Vast amounts of money are squandered on wacky schemes 
> > that never
> > > come to fruition. Tony Nader isn't living like a king? He is 
one!
> > 
> > Money squandered isn't the same as living like a king. Being 
> a "king" 
> > in the TMO doesn't mean "living like a king" in the usual sense 
of 
> > the phrase.
> 
> 
> It certainly does mean that as far as how King Tony is celebrated 
> during those lavish ceremonies where he appears with his Crown on a 
> throne and rides in a procession on an elephant and all that.
> 
> Next, we'll be seeing him do walkabouts with 7 or 8 Corgies at his 
> feet...

Sounds like great fun, unless you're the guy who has to put up with 
all the pomp.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > [...]
> > > > So you think that the TM leadership is supposed to be better 
than 
> > > > everyone else?
> > > 
> > > Wow, is that a long way around, just for 'leveling'.
> > > No just better than unethical, immoral and illegal.
> > > 
> > 
> > so you DO expect more of TMO leadership on the moral/ethical 
level than 
> > you do of other people...
> 
> Yes I do, don't you?
> I certainly don't expect them to behave less ethically than most
> responsible people. They are promoting a program that 
promises 'ideal
> behavior in accord with all the laws of nature'. Their behavior
> reflects on the teaching that they represent. To say nothing about 
the
> effects on the lives they influence directly. Ethical business
> behavior would be a step up. It's not about the sex per se.
> 

Sure sounds like it given how you've complained about it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 10:40 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On 9/26/05 10:36 AM, "Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> snip
> > > >> 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Do you think that Bevan and
> > > >>> John engage in 
> > > >>> lecentious behavior and why do you care?
> > > >> 
> > > >> Well, they do or they did. That is quite well known.
> > > >> However your last question, if phrased, ..."why do we
> > > >> care?" is very interesting if not used simply as a
> > > >> defensive posture. Why do we care? Why do we hold
> > > >> Bevan, John and MMY accountable to a certain standard?
> > > >> It is apparently much more of an idealized fantasy
> > > >> that we have than an authentic need that they have
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You have indicated before that Dr. H and you were good 
friends 
> > when you were
> > > > younger. Are you still in touch? I'd wonder his reaction at 
> your 
> > embracing
> > > > of SSRS's teaching.
> > > 
> > > I initiated him (and Peter). We run into each other once in a 
> > while. He's
> > > always friendly. We shake hands. But we haven't sat down for a 
> > talk. I'd
> > > like to do that sometime.
> > 
> > Say hi to him from Lawson english in Tucson, AZ. We had a nice 
> lunch 
> > inthe student union when he first started running for Pres. I 
> waxed 
> > eloquent about my neural-networks theory of enlightenment, and he 
> > very politely bit his tongue.
> 
> 
> I'm sure if Rick also tells him that you are on Prozac that all 
will 
> now make sense to him...

Wasn't [as much] in need of Prozac back then. My disoders got bad 
enough to require medicine after living three years in a mold-
infested apartment. Some of those molds are NASTY and I'm allergic 
anyway...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > on 9/26/05 2:28 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> What licentious behavior and why do you care?
> > > 
> > > Bevan and Hagelin are infamous womanizers. They have not limited
> > > themselves to single women, they have no scruples, or at least 
they
> > > didn't for a looong time, about whose wife they sleep with. It 
has
> > > been going on for years, it has been talked about for years, it 
has
> > > been hashed and rehashed, it is not rumors, marriages have 
broken 
> up
> > > over it. And no one says anything or cares about it.
> > 
> > A friend of mine who is a respected, long-time MUM faculty member 
> said that
> > even recently young coeds have been coming to him in tears, 
because 
> Hagelin
> > has slept with them and then dumped them. So it still goes on.
> 
> 
> If this is true, it is a major scandal waiting to happen.
> 
> It also suggest incredible contempt that Hagelin has for the TMO in 
> that he feels it is SO weak that he has license to do all these 
things 
> without fear of being held accountable because they need him so 
> badly...

Speaking as someone whose sexuality was once out of control (is 
abstinence being "in control?), I can tell you that at least some 
people sleep around because of stress/insecurity issues.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: So what's your Halloween costume going to be?

[sparaig]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TorquoiseB writes:
> Anyway, if you were to attend such a party, or
> were just dressing up for Halloween, who/what
> would you be?
> 
> Tom T:
> I was invited to a costume party/wedding. Everyone was invited to come
> in costume. I went as Krishna, as the bride? had kind of hinted she
> thought I could carry it off. Went to the local used clothing and
> stuff store and bought $30 worth of junk jewelery (wore it all) and
> got blue dye and did my arms legs face and any part that showed with
> blue. wore blue shirt and shorts with pink granny fluffy slippers. No
> one seemed to know who I was till I laughed. Great fun. Can;t
> recommend it any higher for breaking all kinds of boundries. Tom

My dream costume is to loose 100+ pounds, get back into shape as a 
dancer/martial artist,and go as I am now. Best hall costume ever: out-
of-shape computer geek. Now if I can just find a  fat suit that I 
can "strip" out of...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > 
> > > > Sal
> > > 
> > > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > Uns.
> > 
> > So Bevan managed to get 8 women pregnant?
> 
> 
> Almost as good as Brian Jones' record...

Mine is 2.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > > on 9/26/05 10:06 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Why would I care? Hmm, let's see...perhaps because
> > > > >> of the unbelievable
> > > > >> pompousness of HE the Honorable Dr. Morris when he
> > > > >> arrogantly enforces
> > > > >> policy that he creates while he seems to feel he is
> > > > >> immune from the
> > > > >> basics of respectful behavior as in please leave the
> > > > >> wives of others
> > > > >> alone and stop calling ladies into your office and
> > > > >> propositioning them.
> > > > > 
> > > > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah, but it's the old thing of a charismatic, powerful man 
> wowing 
> > > out an
> > > > impressionable younger woman. Whether or not Monica came on to 
> him, 
> > > Bill
> > > > acted irresponsibly.
> > > 
> > > Sure. But does the behavior interfere with the ability to get 
> the job 
> > > done? In the case of Clinton and Lewinsky, it did, but only 
> because 
> > > of a major witch-hunt. 
> > > 
> > > Someone has said that Hagelin is sleeping with students, 
> abandoning 
> > > them to their tears. That's a problem that goes beyond the 
> personal 
> > > morality of those involved.
> > 
> > 
> > Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he 
> has
> > his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a 
> lot of
> > time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> > regular classes.
> > 
> > Does Haglin still teach courses? If not, then he is not sleeping 
> wit
> > his students, he dosn't have any.
> 
> 
> 
> Hagelin is a figurehead for the university.  Indeed, he is BEYOND 
> being a mere professor.

Why is  celebrity a factor for acts between consenting adults?

He doesn't have supervisory responsibility for any students as far as
I can see, so he is not violating meanstream university standards. 

> If he is sleeping with students it would be on the order of 10 times 
> worse than if he were a professor...

For whom? The university? John's soul? The students involved? True
Believers' mind sets? 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Judy responds:
> > 
> > The bottom line being that there is nothing that
> > can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
> > of which the opposite is not also the case,
> > because Brahman is One without a second.
> > 
> > "All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
> > it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
> > paradox is.
> > 
> > Tom T writes: 
> > No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able 
to
> > hold all that in the awake mind. 
> 
> Then it must be possible to be able to
>  hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.

Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or 
between being "asleep" and being "awake" -- though oddly enough, as 
we have seen, only the experientially "awake" appear generally able 
to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self-
diagnosed "unawake" or "not yet awake" often would appear rather 
strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self-
evident "awake" presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) 
idealized criteria. 

This self-denial would thus appear always to be itself a self-
referent mistake of the intellect: attributing some imaginary (not-
here-now) properties (or "shoulds") to what is without properties, 
or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here-now, 
and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties 
(or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here-
now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. 

And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this 
same not-here-now overlay and abandon it into what always is, has 
always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of 
(not)self itself...

How can that which is and has always been and will always be self-
sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from 
itself? 

My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones 
like them) as "ideas" or "ideals" and use them to *obscure* the 
reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear 
quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, 
etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a 
good movie!

Odd indeed, but as you say, All Possibilities...! :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > on 9/26/05 10:06 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> Why would I care? Hmm, let's see...perhaps because
> > > >> of the unbelievable
> > > >> pompousness of HE the Honorable Dr. Morris when he
> > > >> arrogantly enforces
> > > >> policy that he creates while he seems to feel he is
> > > >> immune from the
> > > >> basics of respectful behavior as in please leave the
> > > >> wives of others
> > > >> alone and stop calling ladies into your office and
> > > >> propositioning them.
> > > > 
> > > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > > 
> > > Yeah, but it's the old thing of a charismatic, powerful man 
wowing 
> > out an
> > > impressionable younger woman. Whether or not Monica came on to 
him, 
> > Bill
> > > acted irresponsibly.
> > 
> > Sure. But does the behavior interfere with the ability to get 
the job 
> > done? In the case of Clinton and Lewinsky, it did, but only 
because 
> > of a major witch-hunt. 
> > 
> > Someone has said that Hagelin is sleeping with students, 
abandoning 
> > them to their tears. That's a problem that goes beyond the 
personal 
> > morality of those involved.
> 
> 
> Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he 
has
> his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a 
lot of
> time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> regular classes.
> 
> Does Haglin still teach courses? If not, then he is not sleeping 
wit
> his students, he dosn't have any.



Hagelin is a figurehead for the university.  Indeed, he is BEYOND 
being a mere professor.

If he is sleeping with students it would be on the order of 10 times 
worse than if he were a professor...




> Professors sleeping with THEIR
> students has long been a no no --  firable offense, though I
> understand it still happens. Sleeping with other students  or past
> students? Is that now a firable offense at most universities? 
> 
> While xing faculty dating their own currnet students, in other 
cases,
> it appears to boil down to "consenting adults". And an implicit
> assessemt of whether both parties are smart enough to make figure 
out
> how they want to act in an adult world and what the consequences 
are. 
> 
> Are 18-23 year old women general stupid and naive? Not in my
> observation. "Coed's in tears" sounds so retro. "He said he loved
> me!!!" she wails sobbing, while adjusting her bobby soxs. I mean 
even
> 30 years ago when I was in school, such a was pretty retro. Even 
then,
> undergraduate girls that dated professors, appeared often more
> sexually and relationship savy than the professors they dated.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 6:32 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> on 9/26/05 1:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> ...and it is on this very point that I was intrigued to see that
> >>> John had appeared in the "What the *&$#$" movie, as it was produced
> >>> by a controversial teaching and that he appears with other teachers,
> >>> etc.
> >> 
> >> John appears to be a fairly hot commodity on the New Age circuit,
> > sharing
> >> the podium with Neale Donald Walsch, Maryanne Williamson, and the
like.
> > 
> > I hope he's keeping the speakers fees...
> 
> He is one of the few Westerners in the TMO who is paid real wages by
the TMO
> - in the neighborhood of $110K as I recall.

I knew that Rick, but I figure when Maharishi passes the nephews will
tighten the financial reigns even more. Sounds like there maybe
another fatwa or three in the future

JohnY




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[FairfieldLife] John -- Where's the Beef?

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 7:12 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> on 9/26/05 2:28 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
>  What licentious behavior and why do you care?
> >>> 
> >>> Bevan and Hagelin are infamous womanizers. They have not limited
> >>> themselves to single women, they have no scruples, or at least they
> >>> didn't for a looong time, about whose wife they sleep with. It has
> >>> been going on for years, it has been talked about for years, it has
> >>> been hashed and rehashed, it is not rumors, marriages have broken
> > up
> >>> over it. And no one says anything or cares about it.
> >> 
> >> A friend of mine who is a respected, long-time MUM faculty member
> > said that
> >> even recently young coeds have been coming to him in tears, because
> > Hagelin
> >> has slept with them and then dumped them. So it still goes on.
> > 
> > 
> > If this is true, it is a major scandal waiting to happen.
> > 
> > It also suggests incredible contempt that Hagelin has for the TMO
in that he feels it is SO weak that he has license to do all these
things  without fear of being held accountable because they need him
so  badly..
> 
> But as people have been saying, it has been going on for years and
somehow no one is scandalized. At least not enough people with enough
clout to do  anything about it.


I am still missing something here. From my perspective, probabably
weak and uninformed, it seems like a house of cards -- build in mid
air. Where is the issue regarding John?

1) he is not teaching, thus he is not having sex with students for
whom he has supervisory responsibilities.

2) any romantic or sexual relations he has with students appears to be
consensual, otherwise students would / should report the coercion.

3) That some girls cry when John inevitably moves on seems to be at
least a two way street. 
   a) did the girls think he was going down in FF and marry them? if
so, I speculate and suggest that they have severe delusional problems
and should seek treatment) 
b) did john lie or mistreat them? has that been established?

4) Is it alleged that John used undue male dominance / power to
overcome the poor naive "coeds"? If this is your issue and concern,
read some of the "Coed in Tears" articles I posted. 

5) Do coeds ever flirt with or seek John's attention or company? 

6) Does John provide and offer any intellectual insights/ diologue, 
emotional support  and/or life-experience perspectives to
relationships that enrich the woamn's life? 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[bbrigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 7:35 PM, akasha_108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he 
has
> > his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a 
lot of
> > time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> > regular classes.
> 


> I don't know if he teaches entire courses, but he still lectures.

**

MUM no longer has a physics dept.( 
http://mum.edu/programs/welcome.html ), so Hagelin's role as professor 
of physics would seem to be pretty limited:
 http://mum.edu/admin/faculty.html




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 7:35 PM, akasha_108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he has
> > his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a lot of
> > time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> > regular classes.
> 
> I don't know if he teaches entire courses, but he still lectures.

The issue would be does he have "supervisory responsibility" for any
of the woman. If he just gives a lecture here and there, I suspect
not, in that he is not grading them or superisvising their research.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Judy responds:
> 
> The bottom line being that there is nothing that
> can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
> of which the opposite is not also the case,
> because Brahman is One without a second.
> 
> "All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
> it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
> paradox is.
> 
> Tom T writes: 
> No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to
> hold all that in the awake mind. 

Then it must be possible to be able to
 hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[akasha_108]

Interesting postmodern, feminist / post feminist perspectives.

-
Open Debate: Sex with the Teacher

Click for a printer friendly version of this article
E Ruth Klein

E R Klein argues that no good reason has yet been given for academic
institutions to condemn consensual sexual relationships between
students and lecturers. To reply, see details at the end of the article.

Let's just skip the obviously immoral quid pro quo case – which forces
the reader to picture a stinky old crusty lecherous male professor
extorting his lovely naïve eighteen year old female student with the
fear of the "F" – and get to the real action. Today, in college and
university campuses all over the world, smart and sexy students are
having crushes on, flirting with, and actively sexually pursuing their
professors who are at least as smart and sexy. The evidence is
overwhelming. Students and professors not only want to have sex with
each other, they are having sex with each other.

The number of anecdotal examples that have been brought to my
attention by professors and students alike are too numerous to cite.
However, here are a few published examples. Jan Breslauer told Playboy
Magazine that "she majored in political science and minored in a few
select gentlemen of the faculty." Rolling Stone recently had an entire
cover story on the "highly charged erotic life of the Wellesley girl,"
where randy co-eds, who were tired of lesbian relationships (or of
riding what they dubbed the "Fuck Truck" to Harvard to pick up men),
would "target" their male professors – men who had that "professor sex
appeal". It seems Plato was right. One begins the long epistemological
road to true knowledge via desire. Millennia later, in the midst of
all this high-energy sexuality, no one can claim that academic work is
not getting done – students get an education, new ideas are born,
technology is conceived, and scholarship flourishes. So what's the
problem?

I suggest that the problem is twofold. First, there is academia's
postmodern commitment to relativism. Absolute truths, global norms,
and the overall establishment of traditional criteria for academic
excellence, are no longer taken seriously. Traditional epistemic
concepts such as objectivity have been so demonised that one cannot
criticise anything or anyone without being silenced as a fascist
coloniser trying to impose their own political desires in the garb of
the universal. The upshot is that today's academic finds it impossible
to even conceive of the following state of affairs: That professors,
despite the context of their relationships with students – from
admiring protégé to intellectual rival; from disappointing mentee to
unbelievable lover – can be objective.

A case in point is the work of academic ethicist Steven Cahn. Cahn
argues against professors and students developing even friendships,
let alone romantic/sexual relationships, on the grounds that "every
teacher should be scrupulous in ensuring that no student receives
preferential treatment." However, it doesn't take long to realise that
when a professor gives a specific student an "A" (as opposed to an
"F") this act treats students "unfairly". The response, of course,
would be to distinguish justice from fairness, arguing that the reason
the two students in such a case are treated unequally is because one
earned the grade of "A" while the other did not. That is, within the
scope of grading, inequality of treatment is not only justified, it is
inherent to the system. Within this context, then, Cahn believes there
are objective standards of academic excellence and that the professor
is quite capable of making the appropriate adjudication. That is until
he is in a personal relationship with the student being evaluated.
Then we see the "wrath of Cahn".

Why? I'm not sure. Is it that Cahn is merely projecting his own weak
psychology, his inability to separate the two parts of his life?
Surely he would not commit this basic fallacy. Is it that Cahn is an
expert in human psychology, empirically certain that no one, no matter
how well meaning, could ever see through their emotions to the
objective truth of the student's work? On the one hand, even if he
were so trained, this claim, like that of the psychological egoist, is
either unfalsifiable or false. After all, what kind of empirical
evidence would Cahn accept as disconfirming? (If none, then his thesis
is on the same epistemic footing as astrology.) On the other hand, if
he allows the possibility of such objective persons, even one, then he
will need to do more work to show that such relationships are always
"preferential" where it counts. Surely Cahn must be aware of this
dilemma, so this too can't be his reason.

Maybe Cahn, unknowingly, has bought into the rampant relativism of the
postmodernism institution? After all, if there is no objectivity to be
had in any arena, then it follows, albeit trivially, that professors
cannot remain impartial (whether they are

Re: [FairfieldLife] Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[Rick Archer]

on 9/26/05 7:35 PM, akasha_108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he has
> his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a lot of
> time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
> regular classes.

I don't know if he teaches entire courses, but he still lectures.





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[FairfieldLife] David Lynch a hit in Michigan

[George DeForest]

Title: MLive.com's Printer-Friendly Page





 

  
  

 
  

  

  

  
  Packed crowd hears Filmmaker David Lynch 
  shares zeal for transcendental meditation 
  
  
  Monday, September 26, 2005
  BY JENN MCKEE  News Arts Writer 
  
  If you arrived on time to see filmmaker David Lynch talk about 
  transcendental meditation last night at the Power Center, you were already 
  too late. The venue was packed to capacity. 
  Harried Power Center employees with walkie-talkies loudly stated, again 
  and again, that there were no available seats anywhere in the building, 
  but dozens of people nonetheless lingered at both ground floor entrances, 
  hoping a spot would miraculously open up. (Despite early reports that 
  equipment had not been set up to provide video feed of the talk, those who 
  stayed did eventually get to hear and see most of Lynch's presentation by 
  way of television monitors in the lobby.) 
  The evening's program began with opening remarks from Ed Sarath, a 
  University of Michigan jazz professor and the director and founder of 
  U-M's Program in Creativity and Consciousness Studies (which sponsored 
  Lynch's appearance, along with U-M Integrative Medicine, the Center for 
  Urban Innovation, and the Program in Film and Video Studies). 
  Next, Teresa Adams, administrative assistant for PCCS, provided an 
  introduction for Lynch, listing his achievements in film as well as his 
  broad range of artistic interests (sculpting, painting, photography, 
  etc.). Adams then announced that Lynch would take questions immediately, 
  so audience members moved to line up behind two microphones. 
  As they made their way, Lynch - dressed in a suit, with his thick, gray 
  hair neatly swept back - stepped to the podium and explained that he had 
  started out his career as a painter; the idea of a moving painting was 
  what started him in the direction of animation and, ultimately, film. 
  The first person at the microphone wanted to give Lynch his resume. 
  Lynch said, "Are you a transcendental meditator?'' to which the questioner 
  quipped, "I will be, if you take a look at this.'' 
  Throughout the evening, Lynch nearly always steered his answers back to 
  the topic of TM - a form of meditation that aims to bring the body into a 
  deep state of rest while the mind becomes calm yet alert - but he also 
  offered occasional nuggets of humorous advice, such as: "Always write your 
  ideas down, because if you don't and you forget them, you'll feel like 
  committing suicide.'' 
  One audience member asked about the role of music in Lynch's films. 
  "Every element in a film is important,'' said Lynch. "The trick is to get 
  each element to blend with the whole.'' 
  Another attendee wanted to know when the second season of "Twin Peaks'' 
  would be released, but Lynch couldn't provide an answer. 
  In response to a question about whether or not he would take on science 
  fiction again (Lynch directed "Dune''), Lynch said, "A lot of films deal 
  with consciousness and different dimensions and all kinds of stuff. But I 
  like real things - not to fiddle around with fiction, but to find the 
  truth of a thing.'' 
  Soon, Lynch introduced Dr. John Hagelin, a physicist (featured in the 
  documentary, "What the Bleep Do We Know?'') who discussed how he believed 
  TM had the capacity to cause positive worldwide political, social, and 
  intellectual shifts. "We could see a more fundamental unity of man - 
  though it's not happening very fast with this current administration,'' 
  Hagelin said, drawing applause. 
  Hagelin spoke about the many advantages of TM for young people, 
  particularly in regard to learning. To follow up, Fred Travis, of the 
  Maharishi University of Management, made a presentation that included 
  watching the brain activity of an audience volunteer. (The demonstration 
  showed how the brain activity of an active mind differed from that of a 
  mind at rest.) 
  Lynch then returned to the podium to take a few final questions. One 
  attendee expressed a religion-based skepticism of TM. "I was raised 
  Christian,'' replied Lynch. "I love Jesus, and people from all religions 
  practice transcendental meditation. ... I believe all the great religions 
  are rivers running to one ocean. ... There's no conflict.'' 
  Lynch later expressed his own initial resistance to the idea of 
  meditation. "I thought meditation was a waste of time,'' said Lynch. "I 
  didn't know what in the heck they were doing. But then I saw the faces of 
  yogis sitting in a forest, meditating, and they didn't look homeless. They 
  knew something I didn't know. They had a dignit

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[Rick Archer]

on 9/26/05 7:12 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> on 9/26/05 2:28 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 What licentious behavior and why do you care?
>>> 
>>> Bevan and Hagelin are infamous womanizers. They have not limited
>>> themselves to single women, they have no scruples, or at least they
>>> didn't for a looong time, about whose wife they sleep with. It has
>>> been going on for years, it has been talked about for years, it has
>>> been hashed and rehashed, it is not rumors, marriages have broken
> up
>>> over it. And no one says anything or cares about it.
>> 
>> A friend of mine who is a respected, long-time MUM faculty member
> said that
>> even recently young coeds have been coming to him in tears, because
> Hagelin
>> has slept with them and then dumped them. So it still goes on.
> 
> 
> If this is true, it is a major scandal waiting to happen.
> 
> It also suggest incredible contempt that Hagelin has for the TMO in
> that he feels it is SO weak that he has license to do all these things
> without fear of being held accountable because they need him so
> badly...

But as people have been saying, it has been going on for years and somehow
no one is scandalized. At least not enough people with enough clout to do
anything about it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > > 
> > > > Sal
> > > 
> > > Somewhere in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > > is a less than charitable post listing twelve ladies whose
> > > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > > Uns.
> > 
> > So Bevan managed to get 8 women pregnant?
> 
> I didn't say that. But the poster definitely
> suggested that he dipped his wick.
> Uns.

I have heard that Bevan is a formal Bramacharyi. Is he [still]? This 
would be an issue just on honorableness in keeping one's promise to 
onesself. 

Is he telling everyone on perusha to keep celibate while he's on 
perusha? Ditto.

Is he telling everyone on perusha tokeep celibate while he is NOT on 
perusha? ANother kettle of fish, I think.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[Rick Archer]

on 9/26/05 6:32 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> on 9/26/05 1:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> 
>>> ...and it is on this very point that I was intrigued to see that
>>> John had appeared in the "What the *&$#$" movie, as it was produced
>>> by a controversial teaching and that he appears with other teachers,
>>> etc.
>> 
>> John appears to be a fairly hot commodity on the New Age circuit,
> sharing
>> the podium with Neale Donald Walsch, Maryanne Williamson, and the like.
> 
> I hope he's keeping the speakers fees...

He is one of the few Westerners in the TMO who is paid real wages by the TMO
- in the neighborhood of $110K as I recall.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: global warming = fewer hurricanes

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > > on 9/26/05 10:31 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > ...and there was that recent study in Switzerland that says 
> that
> > > > > global warming is causing the polar ice caps to melt...on 
> Mars!
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is the sun that goes through periods of emitting greater 
> heat
> > > > > that may very well be responsible for global warming, NOT 
> > > anything
> > > > > we are doing here on Earth such as burning fossil fuels.
> > > > 
> > > > So you admit that global warming is taking place, but not 
that 
> > > humans are
> > > > responsible for it. Do you realize how thin and delicate the 
> > > atmosphere is?
> > > > And how much gunk we spew into it? How could it not have an 
> > effect?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Of COURSE it has an effect, Rick, my fingers typing out this 
> > > response on my keyboard is burning calories and is creating 
> global 
> > > warming.
> > > 
> > > But there is ZERO evidence -- ZERO! -- that the global warming 
> > > caused by the burning of fossil fuels is causing all the
> > > devastation and problems that many environmentalists claim it 
is.
> > 
> > Actually there's *oogobs* of evidence.
> > 
> > It's very much like evolution, in fact.  
> > 
> > > There are, simply, too many hurdles to overcome to come to that 
> > > conclusion:
> > > 
> > > 1) Is global warming occuring?
> > 
> > Overwhelming consensus that it is.
> 
> 
> As Michael Creighton's excellent lecture pointed out (and which we 
> had extensive debate on already, Judy, on amt), consensus has 
> nothing to do with science; only facts do.
> 

Michael Creighton is incorrect then. Concensus IS an important part 
of Science.


> 
> 
> > 
> > > 2) If it is occurring, is it caused by the burning of fossil 
> fuels?
> > 
> > Somewhat less certain, but still a significant
> > consensus.
> 
> 
> ditto re: consensus.
> 
> 
> > 
> > > 3) If it is caused by the burning of fossil fuels, is global 
> > > warming a good or bad thing?
> > 
> > Again, overwhelming consensus that it's a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ditto re: consensus.
> 
> 
> >  
> > > 4) If global warming is a bad thing, what are the 
costs/benefits 
> of 
> > > reversing it and what are the opportunity costs of reversing it?
> > 
> > This isn't a "hurdle" to your original question,
> > but rather to the question of what, if anything,
> > we should do about global warming.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: What defines a cult?

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> I'm wondering what exactly separates a cult from a "regular" religion 
> to begin with.  The main difference that I can see in most cases is 
> simply higher numbers.  Beyond that, aren't they all somewhat 
> cult-like?

"Cult" is an anthropological term. It's short for "culture" as in "sub-
culture."

What everyone confuses is the difference between "cult" 
and "destructive cult."

Clubs are cults in the original sense of the word.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Judy responds:
> 
> The bottom line being that there is nothing that
> can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
> of which the opposite is not also the case,
> because Brahman is One without a second.
> 
> "All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
> it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
> paradox is.
> 
> Tom T writes:
> No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to
> hold all that in the awake mind. That is why it is the ultimate
> paradox. That is why it is written that way. It is not possible to
> actually write what it really is or isn't but it is possible to
> experience it.

That was pretty much Nagarjuna's point, yes.

 The koan that does the job. "You will have every
> experience you need to have till you finally wake up" a quote from a
> friend. Tom





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --How about Brahman is the Absolute AS the relative?

You'd have to ask Nagarjuna.  ;-)

I suspect it would come under "...not both the
relative and the Absolute," though.



> - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In 
> > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Tom T writes:
> > > > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > > > time. Tom
> > > > 
> > > > Judy writes:
> > > > Or none of the above...
> > > > 
> > > > Tom T:
> > > > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
> > >
> > > Judy:
> > > Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.
> > > 
> > > TomT:
> > > OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities.
> > 
> > Nagarjuna's Four Negations:
> > 
> > Brahman is not the relative.
> > Brahman is not the Absolute.
> > Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute.
> > Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute.
> > 
> > Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and
> > logician.  He made four logical arguments that
> > ended with the four conclusions above.
> > 
> > The bottom line being that there is nothing that
> > can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
> > of which the opposite is not also the case,
> > because Brahman is One without a second.
> > 
> > "All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
> > it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
> > paradox is.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Judy responds:

The bottom line being that there is nothing that
can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
of which the opposite is not also the case,
because Brahman is One without a second.

"All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
paradox is.

Tom T writes:
No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to
hold all that in the awake mind. That is why it is the ultimate
paradox. That is why it is written that way. It is not possible to
actually write what it really is or isn't but it is possible to
experience it. The koan that does the job. "You will have every
experience you need to have till you finally wake up" a quote from a
friend. Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[qntmpkt]

--How about Brahman is the Absolute AS the relative? 


- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Tom T writes:
> > > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > > time. Tom
> > > 
> > > Judy writes:
> > > Or none of the above...
> > > 
> > > Tom T:
> > > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
> >
> > Judy:
> > Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.
> > 
> > TomT:
> > OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities.
> 
> Nagarjuna's Four Negations:
> 
> Brahman is not the relative.
> Brahman is not the Absolute.
> Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute.
> Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute.
> 
> Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and
> logician.  He made four logical arguments that
> ended with the four conclusions above.
> 
> The bottom line being that there is nothing that
> can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
> of which the opposite is not also the case,
> because Brahman is One without a second.
> 
> "All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
> it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
> paradox is.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: We are either Saints or Devils

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark meredith writes:
> " In a sermon, Samuel Parris, the minister
> in whose house the whole thing started, stated, "We are either saints
> or Devils: the Scripture gives us no medium"
> 
> TOm T:
> This is plain old Black and white thinking which is a sure sign of the
> cult and addictive thinking. Look at Bushy. You are either for us or
> against us. No wonder that plays so well in the press. Really appeals
> to the fundies who have found their latest addiction. TB's also have
> the same affliction.Tom"

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

Is that black and white thinking? :)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Tom T writes:
> > It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> > time. Tom
> > 
> > Judy writes:
> > Or none of the above...
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
>
> Judy:
> Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.
> 
> TomT:
> OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities.

Nagarjuna's Four Negations:

Brahman is not the relative.
Brahman is not the Absolute.
Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute.
Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute.

Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and
logician.  He made four logical arguments that
ended with the four conclusions above.

The bottom line being that there is nothing that
can be said about Brahman, positive or negative,
of which the opposite is not also the case,
because Brahman is One without a second.

"All possibilities" is one way of putting it, but
it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita
paradox is.





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[FairfieldLife] We are either Saints or Devils

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Mark meredith writes:
" In a sermon, Samuel Parris, the minister
in whose house the whole thing started, stated, "We are either saints
or Devils: the Scripture gives us no medium"

TOm T:
This is plain old Black and white thinking which is a sure sign of the
cult and addictive thinking. Look at Bushy. You are either for us or
against us. No wonder that plays so well in the press. Really appeals
to the fundies who have found their latest addiction. TB's also have
the same affliction.Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Palace - Rip-Off

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Rick Archer writes:
NPR did a show today on the world's worst jobs - picking up road kill,
inspecting sewers, determining the sex of baby chicks. They commented
that all the people interviewed had cheerful attitudes. The sewer
inspector, who was often waist-deep in muck, was a psychiatrist who
dropped a successful 20-year practice because he was tired of dealing
with people's crap.

Tom T:
Interesting metaphor. Psychiatrist becomes a sewer man up to his waist
in sh*t amd now has a cheerful attitude. Nothings changed and
everything has changed. Same sh*t just differrent end of the process,
interesting comment on human nature. Tom






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

> Tom T writes:
> It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> time. Tom
> 
> Judy writes:
> Or none of the above...
> 
> Tom T:
> Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?
Judy:
Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.

TomT:
OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[akasha_108]

If J and B are coercing students to have sex, why are the students not
reporting it? A comprehensive reporting and review system is in place.


http://www.mum.edu/safety/bulletin.html

Ideal Education for Orderly Behavior

Compliance with all national, state, and local laws and ordinances is
a prerequisite for ideal citizenry and an ideal society and is an
absolute requirement for all members of the Maharishi University of
Management community. However, not only is lawful behavior a
requirement, but practical and proven techniques for enabling the
individual to satisfy this requirement and avoid the self-destructive
cycle of short-sighted criminal behavior are provided to all students
and ideal administrators. What we believe to be the first line of
defense against crime, the practice of the Transcendental Meditation®
and TM-Sidhi® programs, is practiced in groups twice a day by all
members of the University community. It is a required, credit-bearing
course for all students.


Sexual Harassment Policy: Maharishi University if Management is
dedicated to the creation of an ideal community for personal
development and therefore does not tolerate harassment in any form.
This includes sexual harassment, which creates a disrespectful work
environment that is not conducive to the blossoming of the human
potential. Therefore, it is the University's position that sexual
harassment, abuse, and offenses are unacceptable in any form.

According to the Sex Discrimination Guidelines of the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission (EEOC), sexual harassment is a form of sex
discrimination. According to the guidelines, unwelcome sexual
advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical
conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when:

1. Submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly
a term or condition of the individual's employment or academic
performance, or

2. Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used
as the basis of employment or academic decisions affecting such
individual, or

3. Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering
with an individual's work or academic performance or creating an
intimidating, hostile, or offensive working or educational environment.

Sexual harassment involving students may occur between two or more
students, between students and faculty, or between students and
administrators. When a complaint or incident of sexual harassment
policy solely involving students occurs, it should be brought to the
attention of the Dean of Students immediately. When a complaint or
incident of sexual harassment involving faculty and students occurs,
it should be brought to the attention of both the Dean of Faculty and
the Dean of Students immediately. When a complaint or incident of
sexual harassment involving an administrator and students occurs, it
should be brought to the attention of both the Director of
Administration and the Dean of Students immediately. If the complaint
or incident involves a Dean or Senior Administrator, it should be
brought to the attention of the Executive Vice-President.

Once the University is notified of a complaint, a prompt review of the
complaint that is as confidential as possible will be conducted by the
parties described above. The accused will be notified of the
complaint, afforded an opportunity to respond, and notified of the
outcome of the review. Accused and accuser are entitled to the same
opportunities to have others present during such a proceeding and both
shall be informed of the outcome of any such proceeding. Housing
accommodations may be changed, upon request, by the victims of such
offenses.

The goal of the review will be to determine if sexual harassment has
occurred, and if so, to redress the situation, including taking
appropriate steps to prevent it from happening again. The review may
result in a recommendation of mediation between the parties, a formal
grievance hearing, or legal action.

If a finding of sexual harassment is made, a record will be filed in
the harasser's file. Further possible disciplinary actions can include
a warning letter, probation, dismissal from the University, or
termination of employment.

Educational programs on sex offenses, rape, and acquaintance rape can
be obtained through The Crisis Center at 1-800 464-8340, PO Box 446,
Ottumwa, Iowa 52501. Such events may be reported to the Jefferson
County Police Department at 1200 West Grimes Avenue and/or Campus
Safety in the Library Basement. The Chairperson of the Student Affairs
Council will assist you in notifying these authorities if you wish.
For counseling services for victims of such offenses contact may be
made with the Mental Health Center of Jefferson County at 2201 West
Jefferson Avenue in Fairfield, 472-5771.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[akasha_108]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_2003_June/ai_103381809


Contrapower sexual harassment: A survey of students and faculty members
Sex Roles: A Journal of Research,  June, 2003  by Eros DeSouza,  A.
Gigi Fansler
new
 
Although Congress passed Title IX of the Education Amendments in 1972,
which made sexual harassment illegal in educational settings, sexual
harassment in universities remains a serious problem, with 20-75% of
college women being the target of some form of sexual harassment
(McKinney, 1994). A growing research area also shows that young
college women are not the only ones being sexually harassed. Some
reports include male students harassing female faculty members
(Grauerholz, 1989; McKinney, 1990, 1992) and Whites with less
organizational power harassing minorities with more organizational
power (Buchanan, 2002).

Although there are many theories that explain sexual harassment (e.g.,
biological or natural model of sexual harassment), the focus of this
paper is on the gender-role spillover theory (Gutek, 1985; Powell,
1986) as a causal mechanism to explain sexual harassment. That is,
traditional expectations of how men and women ought to behave are
carried over into the workplace, so that men treat female workers as
sex objects. Gutek (1985) found that nontraditional male-dominated
workplaces resulted in the highest incidence of sexual harassment due
to the disparity between the genders in their access to power. Other
researchers have also found that work environments where men
predominate are more prone to sexual harassment than work environments
where men are not in the majority (Fitzgerald, Drasgow, Hulin,
Gelfand, & Magley, 1997). According to Gutek and Done (2001), work
environments where men predominate are highly sexualized (e.g., sexual
jokes are common), which may put women as well as men at risk for
sexual har assment.

Benson (1984) defined the sexual harassment of those with more
organizational power by those with less power as "contrapower sexual
harassment." Women who enter male-dominated domains may represent a
threat to some men who may, in turn, be motivated to harass the women
(De Coster, Estes, & Mueller, 1999; Grauerholz, 1989). For example,
male students may want to assert their male supremacy by being
sexually aggressive toward female faculty members. In a recent
qualitative study, Rospenda, Richman, and Nawyn (1998) explored
contrapower sexual harassment and suggested that workplace and
academic sexual harassment should be reconceptualized to include the
confluence of gender, race, and class.

 Frequency of Contrapower Sexual Harassment

Previous research has shown that contrapower sexual harassment in
academic settings is widespread. In Grauerholz's study (1989) of
female faculty members, almost half (47.6%) reported having
experienced, at least once, a sexually harassing behavior from
students, especially from male students (82% of the reports were
exclusively from male students, 17% from both men and women, and just
1% from women only). Similarly, Carroll and Ellis (1989) conducted a
survey and found that 30% of the male and 24% of the female faculty
were the target of uninvited sexual comments (e.g., jokes or teasing)
from students as often as four times during an average month. The
authors also found that 27% of the male faculty and 10% of the female
faculty received sexually suggestive looks from students, or
experienced body language of a sexual nature, each month, and 5% of
the male faculty, but none of the female faculty, had received
uninvited requests for dates. Finally, 6% of the male faculty, but
none of the female faculty, were offered sexual favors in exchange for
preferential treatment.

In another study, McKinney (1990) sampled eight harassing behaviors
from students to male and female faculty members at two public
universities. She found that male professors experienced significantly
more body language, physical advances, and explicit sexual
propositions from students than did female professors. When the term
"sexual harassment" was used, 19% of the men and 22% of the women
reported having been sexually harassed by students, who were of the
other sex in over 85% of the cases.

Matchen and DeSouza (2000) have recently investigated sexual
harassment by college students toward faculty members using modified
versions of the Sexual Experiences Questionnaire (SEQ), which was
developed by Fitzgerald et al. (Fitzgerald et al., 1988; Gelfand,
Fitzgerald, & Drasgow, 1995). The SEQ is a behaviorally based
instrument that measures three major types of sexual harassment:
gender harassment (verbal, physical, and symbolic sexist behaviors),
unwanted sexual attention (sexual attention that is unwanted and
unreciprocated), and sexual coercion (bribery). Male and female
college students completed the student version of the SEQ during class
time, and 102 male and female faculty members (a response rate of 14%)
completed the faculty version by mail. Overall

[FairfieldLife] Gordon- Michael Scallion predicts West Coast Quake

[m2smart4u2000]

http://www.matrixinstitute.com/
Sep 26, 2005, 08:32
Earth Changes 
Quake Hits Peru - Third Part of 4-Quake Scenario Fulfilled


A powerful earthquake with a preliminary magnitude of 7.0 (updated 
9.26.05 to 7.5) hit northern Peru late Sunday, causing power outages 
and cutting phone service throughout much of the region. 

Peru's Geophysics Institute said the quake struck at 8:55 p.m. and 
was centered about 60 miles northeast of the jungle city Moyobamba, 
420 miles 

This event fulfils the third part of my 4-Quake Scenario (see askgms 
update Sept. 12 for details on scenario). I am now having an uneasy 
feeling about Oct. as regards to geophysical activity along the West 
Coast of America. I have had recent dream insights of seeing a map 
of California from a high vantage point and then zooming in on Palm 
Springs, California and along a line from Eureka to Bakersfield. 
Should the 4th event in my 4-Quake Scenario occur, then within weeks 
of the recent earthquake in Peru, again October is in my visions, a 
magnitude 7.0-8.0 earthquake could occur in California. I will keep 
you posted. 
- GMS

Note: an error in uploading data into this update listed the wrong 
earthquake and date. The correct data is included above.


Sep 12, 2005, 07:30
Earth Changes 
4-Quake Scenario Update

I received 56 letters on my 4-Quake Scenario in the past two days 
alone asking for an update to my 4-Quake Scenario, which states that 
if a quake with a magnitude 7.0 or greater hits Japan, then within 
weeks, or at most two months, a second similar quake in magnitude 
would hit the Indian Ocean region, followed by another similar quake 
within weeks, or at most two months, in South America or Mexico, and 
finally a forth quake of similar magnitude would hit the West Coast 
of America, again within weeks at most within two months. 

 

Here is what is unfolding regarding my 4-Quake Scenario; On August 
16 a magnitude 7.2 earthquake hit Honshu Japan. This began a new 4-
Quake Scenario. Then within weeks on September 9, 2005, a second 
quake measuring magnitude 7.7 hit Papua New Guinea in the New 
Ireland Region. This was the second quake in my 4-Quake Scenario. I 
am now looking for the third quake to hit South America or Mexico 
this month or early next month. Should this occur, then I believe 
there is a better than 50% chance that a quake greater than 
magnitude 7.0 will hit the West Coast of America this year. The 
location and exact timing of such a quake is unknown at this time. 
Updates as I receive them. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom T writes:
> It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
> time. Tom
> 
> Judy writes:
> Or none of the above...
> 
> Tom T:
> Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?

Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Tom T writes:
It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
time. Tom

Judy writes:
Or none of the above...

Tom T:
Which part of all possibilities isn't clear?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coeds in Tears

[akasha_108]

http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=2475

Forbidden fruit: student-faculty relationships
How does Yale policy deal with romance in the classroom?

BY KRISTEN VON HOFFMANN

At the University of California, Berkeley, a new controversial policy
forbids "romantic or sexual" relationships between professors and
their students. The policy took effect this past July on nine
University of California campuses.


 
"Emotions are sometimes unexpected, unpredicted and unwanted, but they
can't be ignored," Jesse Pizarro, TC 'o6, said, referring to romantic
relationships that may occur between a student and a faculty member.
The issue of romantic student-faculty relationships taking place on
campuses throughout the United States has resulted in policies
forbidding such affiliations, and has prompted heated debate.

The Yale policy outlined in the Faculty Handbook states that
professors are not allowed to have sexual relationships with students
they have direct supervisory responsibilities over, even if the
relationship is consensual. Direct supervision includes course
teaching, grading, advising for a project, supervising research, and
recommending a fellowship or award for employment.

The policy was created by the Committee on Consensual Relations, which
was initiated in March 1997, and is composed of students, faculty and
administrators. Charles Long, Deputy Provost, helped design the policy
in the handbook.

Such relationships generally go unnoticed unless a complaint is
brought to the attention of the provost or a Dean. Long explained that
there are normally two ways in which a complaint can be brought
forward. First, a student who is in a relationship that starts out as
consensual, may bring a sexual harassment complaint to the
administration if the relationship becomes non-consensual. Second, a
student may complain that his classroom environment has become
inhospitable because the teacher is engaged in a relationship with
another student in the class.

"Students have complained of this to me," Long said, referring to
theatter situation. "However, in that situation I do not know of any
that have resulted in a 'case,' meaning an investigation of the
complaint."

A sexual harassment case in 1996 that evolved out of a student-teacher
relationship led the administration to re-evaluate its policy on
student-faculty consensual relationships.

The case involved a female undergraduate who brought a sexual
harassment complaint forward against her math professor, Jay
Jorgenson. He failed to prove that a two month sexual relationship
with her was consensual. He lost his teaching job after the Yale
College Grievance Board found him guilty of sexual harassment.

"The case prompted Yale to create an unambiguous policy," William
Sledge, Chair of the Ad Hoc Committee on Consensual Relationships and
Master of Calhoun College, said. "The new policy was created to
protect the interests of all parties involved in such a situation."

Yale's policy states: "Violations of or failure to correct violations
of these conflict of interest principles by the teacher will be
grounds for disciplinary action." However, the process for
disciplinary action is not explained in the handbook.

"We wanted to create a policy to discourage this behavior rather than
outline disciplinary measures," Long said. "The committee thought
about tougher policies but decided against them."

Since the new policy has been in effect, the administration has yet to
punish a faculty member for violating its regulations. However, Long
described a hypothetical course of punishment if the policy were to be
violated. First, if a consensual relationship existed between a
faculty member and his or her student, the faculty member would be
required to terminate the position of authority held over the student.
If this request was not met, then the provost, in conjunction with the
Dean of the specific college or graduate school, would take
disciplinary action. Such action could include a letter of reprimand,
suspending teaching with or without pay, or firing the faculty member.

"I think that any romantic or erotic relationship between professors
and students is dangerous because it could compromise the professor's
objectivity in evaluating work," Scott Hiley, a graduate student and
professor in the French Department, said. "That aside, friendship,
congeneality and social relations are fine within limits, and even to
be encouraged."

Laura King, Dean of Trumbull College, earned her Ph.D. at Berkeley,
where the new policy on consensual relationships is causing students
and faculty to question the definition of "romantic" relationships. As
a graduate student from 1986 to 1992, King said that it was clear that
romantic relations between faculty and students over whom they had
authority were not seen as appropriate.

King remembered some cases resulting in marriage; all such cases were
between female students and male teachers. "These relationships were
not rare thou

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush hits the booze again

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Judy writes:
 FWIW, National Enquirer has the peculiar
 reputation of being sleazy but accurate.
 I'd be inclined to give one of its stories
 more credibility than anything in Capitol
 Hill Blue.

Tom T:
As I have said before. Dry drunk or wet drunk still a drunk. THe
behaviour doesn't change just the substantance. When power and oil
don't do it any more go back to your roots and really get it on. He
has been adverse to hit bottom and the longer he puts it off the more
painful for him and us as Bushy represents that part of us we have not
or will not look at. Enjoy the ride the best is yet to come. Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Gender Coercion

[akasha_108]

> In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> But there's coercion and coercion.  It doesn't have
> to involve a demand for obedience to be coercive when
> the power relationship is unequal.

In most relationships each party brings different values and
dysfunctions. These can and do translate into power dynamics in the
relationship -- though they don't necessarily need to be dominant.
Thus, per above, most relations have the potential for coercion, if
indeed not the regular exercise of it. "No sex if you don't mow the
lawn", flaunting education, emphasizing income producing
differentials, flirting with others (aka -- "I have other options"),
while cliche ridden, are examples of common coercion in relationships. 

 
> On the other hand, I can conceive of a woman
> saying yes because of the chance to exert her
> own power over an authority figure, to turn the
> tables, as it were.  If you have power over
> someone who's powerful, that makes you *very*
> powerful.  Men aren't the only ones with a
> drive for power.  I suspect that may well have
> been involved with Lewinsky and Clinnton, in fact.

Sure, thats evident everywhere. per the skin boy notes -- to the
extent they reasonably reflect what happened -- Jennifer had a lot of
potential power -- her exit reducing M. to a depressed unmotivated
state -- externally at least.  How much she exercised is uncertain
though appears low-key.
 
> It's very complex.  You can't dump it all in one
> compartment and slap a single label on it.

Yes. Thats why casting all such relations as one-sidedly coercive
seems too simple and inacurate.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

TorquoiseB writes:
Well, if they wanted to funnel some of the millions
to me, I'd promise to give much of it away to truly
worthy organizations.  But they can keep the screwing
married women part.  Wouldn't touch it with a ten-
foot...uh...pole.

Tom T:
old joke. What happens when you cross a rooster and a 40 foot
telephone pole? Answer: A rooster with a 40 foot penis who wants to
reach out and touch you. ( Based on an AT&T long distance commercial
of the 80's on reaching out to touch someone).




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[authfriend]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TorquoiseB writes:
> I think I picked it up in New York.  It always
> seemed to capture the Zen of certain paradoxes
> for me, like the one you cite above.  The coex-
> istence of seeming opposites, the irresolvability
> of the paradox, and all that.  It's like how a
> Zen master from the Bronx should talk: "Does a 
> hot dog have Buddha nature?  Go figure."
> 
> Tom T:
> THe ability to hold that full paradox of "on this hand and then on
> that hand" is the awakening. That is the paradox of Brahman. No
> problemo. When the fullness of both hands is comprehended they merge
> into the bliss of being awake. That is the full range of the way it
> is. It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same 
time. Tom

Or none of the above...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > 
> > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > 
> > That apply to Maharishi as well?
> 
> Why would it not?

That was my question to...hmm, you seem to have deleted
the attribution.  Peter, I think.  I wondered if he would
make the same point with regard to MMY.

> I know a standard theme revolves around "unquesioned obediance to 
> the guru" and all.

Yeah, but I haven't seen it suggested here that
MMY *ordered* women to have sex with him, even
by the most cynical.

> Which may not be your point.

Nope.  More wondering whether there were some
double standards floating around.

> But on that theme, 
> in reality, almost all teachers did lots of things MMY said not to 
> do, and did not do lots of things he said to do. In the 1970-75 
> era -- when a lot of stuff allegedely happened, there was a lot of
> questioning earlier on -- hour after hour of people on the mike 
> asking and questioning all sorts of things. Perhaps a bit less as 
> time marched on in that era.  But lots of "slippage", lots of
> "disobediance" on small things and large.  The woman I knew in the
> inner circle at that time were smart, capable, strong willed 
> women.  

I was never around him, but what you describe
is certainly in accord with my impressions from
what others have said.  Even from some of the
Q&A sessions on videotape shown on courses, for
that matter.

> There was not a strong, prevailing coercive absolute ethic at that
> time where a woman could not say no to anyone, including MMY if
> propositioned.  
> 
> In the past several years on this list, I have explored and argued 
> the coercive, authority, unequal power POV. I am rexamining that. 
> Not disregarding it. But looking at it, I think some women did say 
> no. Some said yes. I believe the latter had motives to do so that 
> were independent of strong coercion. Some motivations may have 
> included: access, curiousity/interest/ senses of service, 
> affection.   And some may have felt some or all such motivation and 
> sttll said no.

I'd be very surprised if that weren't an accurate
analysis.

But there's coercion and coercion.  It doesn't have
to involve a demand for obedience to be coercive when
the power relationship is unequal.

On the other hand, I can conceive of a woman
saying yes because of the chance to exert her
own power over an authority figure, to turn the
tables, as it were.  If you have power over
someone who's powerful, that makes you *very*
powerful.  Men aren't the only ones with a
drive for power.  I suspect that may well have
been involved with Lewinsky and Clinton, in fact.

It's very complex.  You can't dump it all in one
compartment and slap a single label on it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears

[akasha_108]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2093351


Off Limits
Should students be allowed to hook up with professors?
By Laura Kipnis
Posted Friday, Jan. 2, 2004, at 8:17 AM PT

Illustration by Robert Neubecker
The burning academic question of the day: Should we professors be
permitted to "hook up with" our students, as the kids put it? Or they
with us? In the olden days when I was a student (back in the last
century) hooking up with professors was more or less part of the
curriculum. (OK, I went to art school.) But that was a different era,
back when sex—even when not so great or someone got their feelings
hurt—fell under the category of experience, rather than injury and
trauma. It didn't automatically impede your education; sometimes it
even facilitated it.

But such things can't be guaranteed to turn out well—what percentage
of romances do?—so colleges around the country are formulating
policies to regulate such interactions, to protect against the
possibility of romantic adversity. In 2003, the University of
California's nine campuses ruled to ban consensual relationships
between professors and any students they may "reasonably expect" to
have future academic responsibility for; this includes any student
known to have an interest in any area within the faculty member's
expertise. But while engineering students may still pair-bond with
professors of Restoration drama in California, many campuses are
moving to prohibit all romance between any professor and any student.

Feminism has taught us to recognize the power dynamics in these kinds
of relationships, and this has evolved into a dominant paradigm, the
new propriety. But where once the issue was coercion or quid pro quo
sex, in institutional neo-feminism the issue is any whiff of sexuality
itself—or any situation that causes a student to "experience his or
her vulnerability." (Pretty much the definition of sentience, I always
thought.) "The unequal institutional power inherent in this
relationship heightens the vulnerability of the student and the
potential for coercion," the California code warns, as if any
relationship is ever absent vulnerability and coercion. But the
problem in redressing romantic inequalities with institutional blunt
instruments is that it just confers more power on the institutions
themselves, vastly increasing their reach into people's lives.

Ironically, the vulnerability of students has hardly decreased under
the new paradigm; it's increased. As opportunities for venting injury
have expanded, the variety of opportunities to feel injured have
correspondingly multiplied. Under the "offensive environment"
guidelines, students are encouraged to regard themselves as such
exquisitely sensitive creatures that an errant classroom remark
impedes their education, such hothouse flowers that an unfunny joke
creates a lasting trauma—and will land you, the unfunny prof, on the
carpet or in the national news.

My own university is thankfully less prohibitive about
student-professor couplings: You may still hook up with students, you
just can't harass them into it. (How long before hiring committees at
these few remaining enclaves of romantic license begin using this as a
recruiting tool? "Yes the winters are bad, but the students are
friendly.") But don't think of telling them jokes! Our harassment
guidelines warn in two separate places that inappropriate humor
violates university policy. (Inappropriateness—pretty much the
definition of humor, I always thought.)

Seeking guidance, realizing I was clinging to gainful employment by my
fingernails, I signed up for a university sexual-harassment workshop.
(Also two e-mail communiqués from the dean advised that nonattendance
would be noted.) And what an education I received—though probably not
the intended one.

Things kicked off with a "Sexual Harassment Pretest," administered by
David, an earnest mid-50ish psychologist, and Beth, an earnest young
woman with a masters in social work. It consisted of unanswerable
true-false questions like: "If I make sexual comments to someone and
that person doesn't ask me to stop, then I guess that my behavior is
probably welcome." Everyone seemed grimly determined to play
along—probably hoping to get out by cocktail hour—until we were handed
a printed list of "guidelines." No. 1: "Do not make unwanted sexual
advances."

Someone demanded querulously from the back, "But how do you know
they're unwanted until you try?" (OK, it was me.) David seemed oddly
flummoxed by the question, and began anxiously jangling the change in
his pants pocket. "Do you really want me to answer that?" he asked.

Another person said helpfully, "What about smoldering glances?"
Everyone laughed. A theater professor guiltily admitted to
complimenting a student on her hairstyle that very afternoon (one of
the "Do Nots" on the pretest)—but wondered whether as a gay male, not
to have complimented her would be grounds for offense. He started
mimicking the female student, tossing her mane around in a "notice

[FairfieldLife] Re: Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[akasha_108]

http://chronicle.com/errors.dir/noauthorization.php3?page=/che-data/articles.dir/articles-41.dir/issue-24.dir/24b00101.htm

When Students Make Sexual Advances

By David R. Pichaske

Recent bans on professor-student relationships are founded on two
assumptions: that sex between teachers and students generally is
initiated by experienced male professors with naive female students
and that a power imbalance between vulnerable students and powerful
faculty members renders even consensual relationships essentially
non-consensual. Like mantras, both assumptions owe their power more to
frequent chanting than to thoughtful analysis.

One of the many things about sex that the Neo-Puritans who support
such bans don't understand is that many sexual encounters are
initiated by female students, even the most sheltered of whom are less
naive than their protectors seem to believe -- especially if "sexual
encounter" is understood to include gestures, dress, suggestive jokes
and stories, body language, and deliberate "accidental" touching. Such
behavior traditionally has been understood to be cognitively ambiguous
-- that prolonged stare, that racy joke, that arm around the shoulder
might be invitations, but they also might not be. Recently, such
gestures have been redefined by harassment theorists as unambiguous
indications of sexual interest, and therefore objectionable, and
therefore proscribed. But to be fair, if such actions are defined as
sexual overtures when initiated by professors, they should be defined
as sexual overtures when initiated by students. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Vastu Fees and Hogs

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote


  Fifteen grand a month, or $500.00/day.  How do you make 
> > $500.00/day
> 
> The C word:  C O N S U L T I N G  :-)

I read the local business journal on a weekly basis where different 
public cos. are featured.  Companies administering health care 
benefits, prescription drugs are some that do exceeding well.  When 
you consider the quarterly profit of many of these cos, it boggles the 
mind some.  Lehman Bros. Goldman Sachs reporting 600mil, 800 mil. 
profit in a single quarter.  Really, Freddy had it right.  Those who 
followed his advice probably did better than the average bear.

lurk




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[FairfieldLife] Coed's in Tears (was A scolding for Maharishi...)

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > on 9/26/05 10:06 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> Why would I care? Hmm, let's see...perhaps because
> > >> of the unbelievable
> > >> pompousness of HE the Honorable Dr. Morris when he
> > >> arrogantly enforces
> > >> policy that he creates while he seems to feel he is
> > >> immune from the
> > >> basics of respectful behavior as in please leave the
> > >> wives of others
> > >> alone and stop calling ladies into your office and
> > >> propositioning them.
> > > 
> > > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> > 
> > Yeah, but it's the old thing of a charismatic, powerful man wowing 
> out an
> > impressionable younger woman. Whether or not Monica came on to him, 
> Bill
> > acted irresponsibly.
> 
> Sure. But does the behavior interfere with the ability to get the job 
> done? In the case of Clinton and Lewinsky, it did, but only because 
> of a major witch-hunt. 
> 
> Someone has said that Hagelin is sleeping with students, abandoning 
> them to their tears. That's a problem that goes beyond the personal 
> morality of those involved.


Does Haglin still teach courses? I don't know. My impression is he has
his intitute and all and  travels and speaks globally, spends a lot of
time in holland, NY and DC -- and is not in FF enought to teach
regular classes.

Does Haglin still teach courses? If not, then he is not sleeping wit
his students, he dosn't have any. Professors sleeping with THEIR
students has long been a no no --  firable offense, though I
understand it still happens. Sleeping with other students  or past
students? Is that now a firable offense at most universities? 

While xing faculty dating their own currnet students, in other cases,
it appears to boil down to "consenting adults". And an implicit
assessemt of whether both parties are smart enough to make figure out
how they want to act in an adult world and what the consequences are. 

Are 18-23 year old women general stupid and naive? Not in my
observation. "Coed's in tears" sounds so retro. "He said he loved
me!!!" she wails sobbing, while adjusting her bobby soxs. I mean even
30 years ago when I was in school, such a was pretty retro. Even then,
undergraduate girls that dated professors, appeared often more
sexually and relationship savy than the professors they dated.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for Christian or other clergy who have a good word about TM

[pibssmith]

How about Father Miller. He runs the  Liberal Catholic Church in 
Fairfield that is open to all but is mostly Ru's 

St Gabriels and all Angels is that correct Someone in FF can give you 
the number I am out of town
> Hello all, 
> 
> A friend is working on a TM project and is looking for clergy who 
ideally practice
> TM and have something nice to say about it. Let me know if you know 
anyone along
> these lines.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
>   
> __ 
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> http://mail.yahoo.com




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> [...]
> > > So you think that the TM leadership is supposed to be better than 
> > > everyone else?
> > 
> > Wow, is that a long way around, just for 'leveling'.
> > No just better than unethical, immoral and illegal.
> > 
> 
> so you DO expect more of TMO leadership on the moral/ethical level than 
> you do of other people...

Yes I do, don't you?
I certainly don't expect them to behave less ethically than most
responsible people. They are promoting a program that promises 'ideal
behavior in accord with all the laws of nature'. Their behavior
reflects on the teaching that they represent. To say nothing about the
effects on the lives they influence directly. Ethical business
behavior would be a step up. It's not about the sex per se.

JohnY




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Re: [FairfieldLife] So what's your Halloween costume going to be?

[Vaj]

Pictures please!


On 9/26/05 8:06 PM, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> TorquoiseB writes:
> Anyway, if you were to attend such a party, or
> were just dressing up for Halloween, who/what
> would you be?
> 
> Tom T:
> I was invited to a costume party/wedding. Everyone was invited to come
> in costume. I went as Krishna, as the bride? had kind of hinted she
> thought I could carry it off. Went to the local used clothing and
> stuff store and bought $30 worth of junk jewelery (wore it all) and
> got blue dye and did my arms legs face and any part that showed with
> blue. wore blue shirt and shorts with pink granny fluffy slippers. No
> one seemed to know who I was till I laughed. Great fun. Can;t
> recommend it any higher for breaking all kinds of boundries. Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: So what's your Halloween costume going to be?

[shempmcgurk]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TorquoiseB writes:
> Anyway, if you were to attend such a party, or
> were just dressing up for Halloween, who/what
> would you be?
> 
> Tom T:
> I was invited to a costume party/wedding. Everyone was invited to 
come
> in costume. I went as Krishna, as the bride? had kind of hinted she
> thought I could carry it off. Went to the local used clothing and
> stuff store and bought $30 worth of junk jewelery (wore it all) and
> got blue dye and did my arms legs face and any part that showed with
> blue. wore blue shirt and shorts with pink granny fluffy slippers. No
> one seemed to know who I was till I laughed. Great fun. Can;t
> recommend it any higher for breaking all kinds of boundries. Tom


...and did you wear Blue Suede Shoes?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > on 9/26/05 10:40 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 9/26/05 10:36 AM, "Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > >> snip
> > >> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Do you think that Bevan and
> > >>> John engage in 
> > >>> lecentious behavior and why do you care?
> > >> 
> > >> Well, they do or they did. That is quite well known.
> > >> However your last question, if phrased, ..."why do we
> > >> care?" is very interesting if not used simply as a
> > >> defensive posture. Why do we care? Why do we hold
> > >> Bevan, John and MMY accountable to a certain standard?
> > >> It is apparently much more of an idealized fantasy
> > >> that we have than an authentic need that they have
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You have indicated before that Dr. H and you were good friends 
> when you were
> > > younger. Are you still in touch? I'd wonder his reaction at 
your 
> embracing
> > > of SSRS's teaching.
> > 
> > I initiated him (and Peter). We run into each other once in a 
> while. He's
> > always friendly. We shake hands. But we haven't sat down for a 
> talk. I'd
> > like to do that sometime.
> 
> Say hi to him from Lawson english in Tucson, AZ. We had a nice 
lunch 
> inthe student union when he first started running for Pres. I 
waxed 
> eloquent about my neural-networks theory of enlightenment, and he 
> very politely bit his tongue.


I'm sure if Rick also tells him that you are on Prozac that all will 
now make sense to him...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: ...just change the names; the dance remains the same...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > on 9/26/05 10:42 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > >> It's not necessary for me to go over her books in order to see
> > > that a lot
> > >> gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence of what the 
TMO 
> has
> > >> accomplished? Much less, as far as I can see, with a much 
larger
> > > influx of
> > >> money. Also, I've seen fairly close up how Amma operates. Very
> > > frugal and
> > >> self sacrificing. Nobody, including she, is living like a 
king.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It's not necessary for me to go over Maharishi's books in 
order to
> > > see that a lot gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence 
of
> > > what Yogananda's organisation has accomplished? Much less, as 
far 
> as
> > > I can see, with a much larger influx of money. Also, I've seen
> > > fairly close up how Maharishi operates. Very frugal and self
> > > sacrificing. Nobody, including he, is living like a king.
> > 
> > Just words dude. Please itemize for us what has been 
accomplished 
> with the
> > hundreds of millions of dollars. Have you really seen close up 
how 
> Maharishi
> > operates? Vast amounts of money are squandered on wacky schemes 
> that never
> > come to fruition. Tony Nader isn't living like a king? He is one!
> 
> Money squandered isn't the same as living like a king. Being 
a "king" 
> in the TMO doesn't mean "living like a king" in the usual sense of 
> the phrase.


It certainly does mean that as far as how King Tony is celebrated 
during those lavish ceremonies where he appears with his Crown on a 
throne and rides in a procession on an elephant and all that.

Next, we'll be seeing him do walkabouts with 7 or 8 Corgies at his 
feet...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 2:28 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> 
> >> What licentious behavior and why do you care?
> > 
> > Bevan and Hagelin are infamous womanizers. They have not limited
> > themselves to single women, they have no scruples, or at least they
> > didn't for a looong time, about whose wife they sleep with. It has
> > been going on for years, it has been talked about for years, it has
> > been hashed and rehashed, it is not rumors, marriages have broken 
up
> > over it. And no one says anything or cares about it.
> 
> A friend of mine who is a respected, long-time MUM faculty member 
said that
> even recently young coeds have been coming to him in tears, because 
Hagelin
> has slept with them and then dumped them. So it still goes on.


If this is true, it is a major scandal waiting to happen.

It also suggest incredible contempt that Hagelin has for the TMO in 
that he feels it is SO weak that he has license to do all these things 
without fear of being held accountable because they need him so 
badly...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

TorquoiseB writes:
I think I picked it up in New York.  It always
seemed to capture the Zen of certain paradoxes
for me, like the one you cite above.  The coex-
istence of seeming opposites, the irresolvability
of the paradox, and all that.  It's like how a
Zen master from the Bronx should talk: "Does a 
hot dog have Buddha nature?  Go figure."

Tom T:
THe ability to hold that full paradox of "on this hand and then on
that hand" is the awakening. That is the paradox of Brahman. No
problemo. When the fullness of both hands is comprehended they merge
into the bliss of being awake. That is the full range of the way it
is. It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > snip
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Do you think that Bevan and
> > > > John engage in 
> > > > lecentious behavior and why do you care?
> > > 
> > > Well, they do or they did. That is quite well known.
> > > However your last question, if phrased, ..."why do we
> > > care?" is very interesting if not used simply as a
> > > defensive posture. Why do we care? Why do we hold
> > > Bevan, John and MMY accountable to a certain standard?
> > > It is apparently much more of an idealized fantasy
> > > that we have than an authentic need that they have
> > 
> > Again, I think that the issue is lack of empathy.
> > To the best of my knowledge Sparaig has never had
> > to be held accountable in the TM organization for
> > his everyday behavior, and whether it "measures
> > up" to some "standard" for behavior.  (Other than
> > the normal rank-and-filer stuff of making sure to
> > hide any behavior that might get you disallowed
> > from attending courses.)
> 
> 
> Except, I never hid anything from anyone in order to get on 
courses. 
> Right now, I'm on Prozac and Adderal, and if that prevents me from 
> going on courses, I'll accept that.
> 
> Mind you, I haven't tried to go on courses since before I started 
> taking it, so who can say?


May I ask what those drugs do and what they are for?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > I always thought Bevan was gay.
> > > 
> > > Sal
> > 
> > Some where in the archives, in the mid eight thousands,
> > is a less than charitable post lsiting twelve ladies whose
> > eggs Bevan is supposed to have covered; a selfless
> > accomplishment for a "friend of Dorothy".
> > Uns.
> 
> So Bevan managed to get 8 women pregnant?


Almost as good as Brian Jones' record...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: global warming = fewer hurricanes

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >  
> > In a message dated 9/25/05 7:58:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > 
> > "We're  only half way through this decade, barely, and we've 
already 
> > got six very  intense hurricanes," Stephanopoulos argued, as if 
to 
> > suggest that global  warming's impact began in 2001.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Well... of course it did! That's when W took office and  refused 
to 
> sign the 
> > Kyoto treaty!
> 
> Er,hadn't the treaty already been signed?


I believe it was signed by Clinton and then rejected by the U.S. 
Senate 99-0 (included at the time 50-odd Democrats)...




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[FairfieldLife] So what's your Halloween costume going to be?

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

TorquoiseB writes:
Anyway, if you were to attend such a party, or
were just dressing up for Halloween, who/what
would you be?

Tom T:
I was invited to a costume party/wedding. Everyone was invited to come
in costume. I went as Krishna, as the bride? had kind of hinted she
thought I could carry it off. Went to the local used clothing and
stuff store and bought $30 worth of junk jewelery (wore it all) and
got blue dye and did my arms legs face and any part that showed with
blue. wore blue shirt and shorts with pink granny fluffy slippers. No
one seemed to know who I was till I laughed. Great fun. Can;t
recommend it any higher for breaking all kinds of boundries. Tom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[akasha_108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > While it is certainly boorish behavior and I do not
> > support it in the least, the ladies can say no.
> 
> That apply to Maharishi as well?

Why would it not?

I know a standard theme revolves around "unquesioned obediance to the
guru" and all.  Which may not be your point. But on that theme, in
reality, almost all teachers did lots of things MMY said not to do,
and did not do lots of things he said to do. In the 1970-75 era --
when a lot of stuff allegedely happened, there was a lot of
questioning earlier on -- hour after hour of people on the mike asking
and questioning all sorts of things. Perhaps a bit less as time
marched on in that era.  But lots of "slippage", lots of
"disobediance" on small things and large.  The woman I knew in the
inner circle at that time were smart, capable, strong willed women.  

There was not a strong, prevailing coercive absolute ethic at that
time where a woman could not say no to anyone, including MMY if
propositioned.  

In the past several years on this list, I have explored and argued the
 coercive, authority, unequal power POV. I am rexamining that. Not
disregarding it. But looking at it, I think some women did say no. 
Some said yes. I believe the latter had motives to do so that were
independent of strong coercion. Some motivations may have included:
access, curiousity/interest/ senses of service, affection.   And some
may have felt some or all such motivation and sttll said no.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] That House for Sale

[Rick Archer]

on 9/26/05 3:23 PM, pibssmith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Rick any idea what they paid for Grants log  house or
> must I want until the assessor posts it.

My sister, who lives right next to them, told me, but I forget. I'll ask
her.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A scolding for Maharishi...

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 9/26/05 1:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > ...and it is on this very point that I was intrigued to see that
> > John had appeared in the "What the *&$#$" movie, as it was produced
> > by a controversial teaching and that he appears with other teachers,
> > etc.
> 
> John appears to be a fairly hot commodity on the New Age circuit,
sharing
> the podium with Neale Donald Walsch, Maryanne Williamson, and the like.

I hope he's keeping the speakers fees...




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