date:20140328


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 You told me to "go figure" so I was go figuring.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 29-Mar-14 00:15:06 UTC


 Whew, just under the non-existent wire.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Fairfield Life Post Counter
 ===
 Start Date (UTC): 03/22/14 00:00:00
 End Date (UTC): 03/29/14 00:00:00
 1003 messages as of (UTC) 03/28/14 23:49:55
 
 169 Richard J. Williams 
 104 authfriend
 100 Share Long 
 67 steve.sundur
 65 TurquoiseBee 
 63 Michael Jackson 
 54 salyavin808 
 49 awoelflebater
 40 LEnglish5
 40 Bhairitu 
 37 doctordumbass
 35 nablusoss1008 
 29 dhamiltony2k5
 27 emilymaenot
 26 anartaxius
 19 jr_esq
 19 Pundit Sir 
 18 Mike Dixon 
 6 Rick Archer 
 5 cardemaister
 4 turquoiseb
 4 merudanda 
 4 emptybill
 4 Dick Mays 
 3 j_alexander_stanley
 2 yifuxero
 2 geezerfreak
 2 feste37 
 2 Duveyoung 
 1 wgm4u 
 1 ultrarishi 
 1 s3raphita
 1 Free N. Flourishing 
 Posters: 33
 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
 =
 Daylight Saving Time (Summer):
 US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
 Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM
 Standard Time (Winter):
 US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM
 Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
 For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, it's interesting that you say I'm using Apple because I'm communicating 
with people who are using Apple. Interesting but I don't agree. Also, I enjoy 
learning new stuff like that there are Apple stores and genius bars. As for 
uncomfortable feelings...tap, tap, tap...  

Hmm, interesting interpretation by Emily and one I had not thought of as a 
possibility when I conjectured that Sharon did not "use" an Apple computer. 
See, this is what I like about different people contributing to a thought or a 
conversation - they can bring to it all sorts of new dimensions and ideas. Now, 
what is also fascinating is to see Sharon dismiss, out of hand, the idea that 
she is "using" an Apple by reading and responding to posts made by Apple 
computers. On one level, of course she is using or, alternatively, utilizing 
the technology of an Apple because if it weren't for that type of computer 
Ann's or Emily's posts would not be able to be perceived here. It seems as if 
you, Share, have perhaps not considered this idea carefully enough. Or maybe 
you just feel like defying Emily for her rather straightforward and,  might I 
add, challenging theory. Isn't this fun and enlightening?

 

 On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:22 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ha ha ha.  Blah, blah, blah.  What Share, *what* is an "interesting 
perspective?"  The fact that you do reduce things to "right and wrong?"  Try 
this on for "interesting." Maybe you really *did* take the tiniest, barely 
noticeable, exception to the fact that Ann and I were teasing you about not 
knowing that Apple has stores and "genius bars," but you didn't want to admit 
it (that would require admitting to a possibly uncomfortable feeling), so, 
instead, you denied it and told her she was "wrong."  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Of Press and Pandits

2014-03-28 Thread dhamiltony2k5

Pundit Riot, Des Moines Register Articles

FFL#377701

Pundit story in the Des Moines Register with many photos:

Maharishi Vedic City: Inside the compound with Rekha Basu
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20140322/BASU/303220080/Maharishi-Vedic-City-Inside-compound-Rekha-Basu

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20140322/BASU/303220080/Maharishi-Vedic-City-Inside-compound-Rekha-Basu

dickmays writes:

Of Press and Pandits

by Bill Goldstein, March 24, 2014

The quest for controversy often overshadows the quest for truth in today's
media. But in the process that is now following after the March 11 "Dust Up" in
Vedic City, Iowa, reported by Rekha Basu in Sunday's Register, I trust the
ensuing discussion will serve our public interest.

So I thank Rekha Basu for making her first trip to our community in Vedic City,
which has been established for 17 years, and for beginning the overdue process
of informing Iowa of what is going on in our unique piece of this great State.

First, some facts. On Friday, I provided to Rekhu the budget on the Pandit
project. She advised me that it was unfortunately too late to be included in
the Sunday edition. So I summarize it now for you:

* $14 million dollars to build the Pandit campus facilities, including the
residences and common building

-- all of them modern, custom designed and built, modular units.

* The monthly costs to operate the project, including stipends, wages, food,
repair, maintenance, G and A, and Pandit travel to and from India, etc.
averaged $600,000 per month in 2013.

* All these costs are covered by donations from numerous benefactors to the
non-profit 501c(3) educational organization that runs the project, for which I
have served as counsel for the last 12 years.

* The four years before the first Pandit arrived in the U.S. in 2007 were spent
laying out the design of the program and facilities, in construction, on
logistics and getting the necessary government approvals from the US State
Department, USCIS and Indian authorities after numerous meetings, memos and
discussions for which I earned many frequent flier miles.

It would be nice if the facilities were grander, the stipends larger, and the
weather warmer. And it would be nice, if unrealistic, to presume we could
anticipate all the myriad challenges that such an unprecedented cultural
exchange might engender. But after seven-and-a-half years, and considering the
reasonable financial constraints and cross-cultural differences, personally I
don't think it fair to say we are doing badly. But that is for you to decide.

The fact is that after 2,499 days of apparently non-newsworthy peace, one
morning recently, a small minority of the Pandits on the campus behaved quite
badly (it appears that about a dozen threw rocks) when they perceived that the
Sheriff was taking away their leader and friend to jail for some unknown
criminal act. The Sheriff was not, in fact, there for that purpose, but merely
as a precaution to assist the administrators who were returning that individual
to India for an internal administrative breach of his authority. But that was
the group's perception and their unfortunate reaction. The lesson: The Sheriff
won't be requested to assist in such a process in the future. We will do better
next time and we thank Sheriff Morton for his exemplary and professional
restraint. And those behaving badly have now been removed from the campus.

The religious vocation ("Monk or Nun") visa they have been issued by USCIS,
which has been very carefully reviewed in each individual case by the State
Department and USCIS prior to issuance (2,600 visas in all to date), strictly
confines by its terms what the Pandit can do, where they can do it, and what
the compensation is. They are only to engage, on a full-time basis, in their
religious vocation of meditation, Vedic performances, and Vedic study. It is
not hard labor or labor of any kind. No other activity, secular or non-secular,
is permissible. And their stated activities can only take place on the
USCIS-approved campus in Vedic City. They are to be provided $200 per month in
cash compensation and their room and board, living expenses, medical care, and
transport. The campus was inspected and approved by USCIS at the commencement
of the program and in subsequent visits by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Simply put, foreign nationals on these Non-Immigrant Visas do not have the same
rights that American citizens have. They are limited by the law and by common
sense. As Sheriff Morton noted, some farmers have been confronted by Pandits
leaving the compound (contrary to the impression the Basu article leaves that
this is not possible). What the Sheriff was kind of enough not to note were the
details of those stories, e.g., two Pandits who went for a walk in the
countryside opened up the door to a farmhouse, which is quite acceptable by
Indian village custom, and

[FairfieldLife] Re: Come again?

2014-03-28 Thread s3raphita

My confusion about the topic of Sloopy is made more understandable when you 
recall that the next year Snoopy vs. the Red Baron hit the charts which really 
*was* about that damned cartoon dog . . . 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxzg_iM-T4E 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxzg_iM-T4E

[FairfieldLife] Come again?

2014-03-28 Thread s3raphita

When we used to listen to pop songs on crappy transistor radios it was easy to 
mishear the lyrics. The best-known example has to be Purple Haze by Hendrix who 
(apparently) sang: "Scuse me, while I kiss this guy". When we saw him perform 
on TV we looked at each other with raised eyebrows to say - did he just sing 
what I thought he sang? Of course, the correct lyric was "Scuse me, while I 
kiss the sky" but it seems Hendrix latched on to the joke and in his live 
concerts would actually sing the "guy" version as an in-joke. 
 My own favourite misunderstanding was the McCoys Hang On Sloopy track. I 
really thought it was about Charlie Brown's dog Snoopy. I liked the bubblegum 
sound but it did seem an odd subject for a pop song, a cartoon character - but 
what the hell, that was Americans for you.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTKhPkZSJo 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTKhPkZSJo

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Share, the thought of you reading FFL and simultaneously tapping away earnestly 
to keep those negative feelings away is a pretty cute visual. But, remember, 
with EFT:  
 "It is essential that the energy disturbance remains activated the whole time 
you are tapping in order to completely clear it. Therefore, you have to keep 
your attention focused on the negative feelings while tapping until they are 
gone. Getting distracted or thinking about two things at once can interfere 
with EFT working."
 http://www.eft-alive.com/how-to-do-EFT.html 
http://www.eft-alive.com/how-to-do-EFT.html

 Also, as an aside, I put the word "using" in quotes for a reason.  You've 
misquoted me. And, I defined "using" with an indirect intent - I was just 
trying to think outside of the "right and wrong" box for youyou knowyou 
are a fan of Katie Byron's "work", right?  

 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, it's interesting that you say I'm using Apple because I'm communicating 
with people who are using Apple. Interesting but I don't agree. Also, I enjoy 
learning new stuff like that there are Apple stores and genius bars. As for 
uncomfortable feelings...tap, tap, tap...  


 

 On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:22 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ha ha ha.  Blah, blah, blah.  What Share, *what* is an "interesting 
perspective?"  The fact that you do reduce things to "right and wrong?"  Try 
this on for "interesting." Maybe you really *did* take the tiniest, barely 
noticeable, exception to the fact that Ann and I were teasing you about not 
knowing that Apple has stores and "genius bars," but you didn't want to admit 
it (that would require admitting to a possibly uncomfortable feeling), so, 
instead, you denied it and told her she was "wrong."  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?

THanks - I was just curious as to what folks thought - I too have felt the
breath become less during deep meditation - I didn't include the source
material
http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/2009/09/lies-of-tm-1-effortless-lie.html

Like I said I been a bit distracted - in addition to mom's husband having
Alzheimers, she just acquired a new dog from a rescue shelter - she's a mighty
sweet dog - when she's asleep! A barker, a car chaser, and more - since mom is
busy w hubby I have taken over most dog duties which include keeping her from
making a meal of my tabby cat (who is not amused by the situation)

On Sat, 3/29/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:

Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 29, 2014, 1:13 AM

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
wrote :
It is often
claimed that TM is "effortless" and that this
somehow makes it superior to other forms of meditation that
are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma)
involve "straining".
Michael, I'll try to
reply to some of your points as I understand them, ignoring
the persistent refrain, "and so we know it is lie
perpetuated by TMO" And I am not trying to defend
the technique, just pointing some things out. What we
were trained to say, is that nature operates according to
the law of least action. And therefore pointing the
mind in the direction of greater charm, which is said to be
the field of pure consciousness, Sat, Chit, Ananda, the mind
goes there on it's own accord. So, that would be
the intermediate step before proclaiming it is the most
superior. That statement would be prefaced by saying
it is the "most natural".

First of all, it's important to understand what effort
and effortlessness mean within the context of traditional
meditation. At the end of any path, the goal of meditation,
meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the
intention to go into meditative absorption (or samādhi) and
one can effortlessly enter that state: 1) when one desires
to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this
point is attained one will need "props" or
"supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the sage
Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in
order to fabricate briefer, earlier levels of meditative
attention.It sounds like you are
describing the different kinds of samadhis. So, I
guess you are providing a little background here.

Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi
at will and for whatever duration, one has not reached the
point of meditation being effortless. In fact, if one is
still relying on some technique or method (like TM) one is
not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the
Sanskrit word Patanjali uses for meditation technique,
prayatna, means "with effort"!I think this debate has gone
on many times here. For me, it is a moot issue.
It seems to be how one wants to describe
effortlessness.

So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow
superior to other forms of meditation because it is
effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. The TM Org
has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form
of meditation is superior to all other forms of meditation
out there. The honest truth is, TM is dualistic form of
meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some
modicum of effort.Like I say, for some this is
an important issue, but not for me. I felt the
technique worked pretty well

Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of
balancing ones attention. If meditation, esp. in the early
stages becomes too lax, one simply falls asleep, a common
defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a
lute: you don't want the strings too tight or
they'll break, nor do you want them too loose. You want
them "just right". When a culture of
faux-effortlessness becomes your dogma, there's always
the danger (and I've seen this in many TMers) one will
try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into
being too lax.This sounds about right to
me.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

It was a lazy mistake Share; you are honestly lazy about certain things.  You 
could have used quotes; you could have cited it.  It wasn't your sentence. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Judy, it was an honest mistake. When I put consistency is the hobgoblin in the 
google window, that's what the drop downs showed. They did not show the word 
foolish.
 

 On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:38 PM, "authfriend@..."  wrote:
 
   Opsie-Share. You left a word out of that quote there, didn'cha? How 
dishonest is that?
 

 OTOH, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.
 

 

 Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!
 
 

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Dig deep Share.  Try to put a little effort into what you say so that you have 
a little credibility to go with it.  I googled the phrase and here is what I 
found -  (not just taken from the drop down window; that doesn't tell you 
anythingtry to remember this for next time, even though you have 
acknowledged that Ann is RIGHT in determining that you are not tech savvy) -  
in full and cited appropriately with quotation marks.   

 “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little 
statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has 
simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the 
wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what 
to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said 
to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, 
to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and 
Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit 
that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson 
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/12080.Ralph_Waldo_Emerson, Self-Reliance 
http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1758578
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Judy, it was an honest mistake. When I put consistency is the hobgoblin in the 
google window, that's what the drop downs showed. They did not show the word 
foolish.
 

 On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:38 PM, "authfriend@..."  wrote:
 
   Opsie-Share. You left a word out of that quote there, didn'cha? How 
dishonest is that?
 

 OTOH, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.
 

 

 Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!
 
 

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

Yes, this was the one.  I think I will listen to it also.   

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, 
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 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=03db592b14&e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

Listening to it in the background.  It sounds like he has a successful business 
as well.  And he sounds very down to earth.  There are only a few people I know 
personally who I had the feeling were enlightened, and in most cases they also 
were very down to earth, and not particularly interested in discussing their 
experiences. 

 I guess I've always subscribed to the theory that, "those who know, do not 
speak"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I just read it again, more slowly,  I liked all of it.  His experiences sound 
very genuine.  I may try to listen to the interview.  Thanks for pointing it 
out.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, 
MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much 
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 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=03db592b14&e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
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 The post 223. Harri Aalto 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

I just read it again, more slowly,  I liked all of it.  His experiences sound 
very genuine.  I may try to listen to the interview.  Thanks for pointing it 
out.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, 
MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much 
appreciated and needed. Donate button on http://batgap.com 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=aa0956064c&e=16e07f16fe.
 
 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=03db592b14&e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=349626fad4&e=16e07f16fe
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

[FairfieldLife] Re: What We Did Today

2014-03-28 Thread emptybill

Sounds like a repetition of a Vaj rant with all thse generalizations still 
intact. That means the info in this rant either hasn't been challenged yet or 
hasn't been compared to the Ganga Mahamudra of Tilopa, Naropa and Marpa, which 
in its orignal practice/recognition, was similar to TM - only without using a 
mantra.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

2014-03-28 Thread Bhairitu

Here's a kit for $25 which appears you could the sensor on your finger 
and let your computer record pulses while your meditate (includes software):

http://pulsesensor.com/ 


On 03/28/2014 02:38 PM, salyavin808 wrote:



I researched the sports watches and there are only a few that are 
capable of measuring all the way down to zero. For some reason the 
manufacturers didn't think people going jogging would need that 
facility! The one I was going to buy cost about $300 but was really 
cool and had loads of handy functions like best lap time and average 
rate for the work out, all downloadable. But I decided that wearing it 
might prejudice the innocence of the meditation and might make me 
strain for a still heart which wouldn't work at all I suspect...


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was going to do that too. Online those sensors they put on your 
finger cost less than $2.  You could probably set up a simple software 
program or even VideoLan to record the pulses.  Problem with sensors 
were they were only sold in lots and I didn't need "lots."  BTW, I 
told my tantra guru I wanted to do this and he told me not to.  I do 
have one of those finger oxygen monitor that can be worn on the finger 
and gives the heart rate.


On 03/28/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote:



I always wanted a heart monitor watch so I could monitor my 
meditating. You can get them that download your program (or daily 
run) to a computer so you can keep track of progress. I could have 
sold the results to Lawson...


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


There are wireless enabled bracelets that could alert people if the 
pulse stopped being registered (they're also waterproof so can be 
worn in showers). A friend (who isn't an oldster) has one to track 
activities to aid his dieting. They will probably be the wave of the 
future unless they round up us oldsters and do a "Logan's Run" on us 
out at the gravel pits.


On 03/28/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

Sad story, probably what'll happen to us, old and alone in our tiny 
flats with just the flickering light of the FFL message screen to 
give an indication of what happened




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


Sounds like a variant of Schoedinger's Cat. Was the spirit of the 
original cat still there in any of its descendents?  :-)


Speaking of Schroedinger's Cat, I saw a news story today that 
reminded me that to some extent people in modern society are a lot 
like that cat in the mystery box -- are we really alive, or not? The 
article was about a woman whose body was found in her house. This is 
not all that unusual, except that she appears to have been dead 
since 2009.


No one noticed because all that time her bills were paid every 
month, and on time, electronically and automatically.



*From:* "anartaxius@..."   

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 


*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 5:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

This reminds me of the following story:
When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening 
meditation, the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that 
it distracted them. So the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up 
during the evening practice. Years later, when the teacher died, the 
cat continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when 
the cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery 
and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual 
teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance 
of tying up a cat for meditation practice.


-
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is 
taught: "That's just how things are done around here."



*From:* salyavin808  

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 


*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

Oh, maybe this is the interview you were referring to Emily.  I picked up your 
other post while still at work.  This seems to apply to many of things being 
bandied about.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014  
 blog updates from
 Buddha at the Gas Pump 
If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 
per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, 
MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much 
appreciated and needed. Donate button on http://batgap.com 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=aa0956064c&e=16e07f16fe.
 
 published 03/28/2014
 223. Harri Aalto 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=03db592b14&e=16e07f16fe

 Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

 My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading → 
http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5&id=349626fad4&e=16e07f16fe
 The post 223. Harri Aalto 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?


 except the "guy" wasn't Michael, if you were implying it was.  you'd think he 
might have indicated he was picking that piece up from elsewhere.  In fact, I 
was going to ask him for some citations for some of those claims.  I guess he 
wouldn't have been able to come up with any.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This is a lot of assumption. This guy is working really hard to make [assert] 
a point. TM as it is instructed is a pretty effortless mental practice 
comparatively. But the guy makes some good points about spiritual laxity. 
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 mjackson74 writes:

 Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of 
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:
 
 The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM) 
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed 
that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms 
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) 
involve "straining".
 
 First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.
 
 Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!
 
 So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.
 
 Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.
 
 Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
  It is often claimed that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it 
superior to other forms of meditation that are not effortless and often 
(according to TM Org dogma) involve "straining".
 

 Michael, I'll try to reply to some of your points as I understand them, 
ignoring the persistent refrain, "and so we know it is lie perpetuated by TMO"  
And I am not trying to defend the technique, just pointing some things out.  
What we were trained to say, is that nature operates according to the law of 
least action.  And therefore pointing the mind in the direction of greater 
charm, which is said to be the field of pure consciousness, Sat, Chit, Ananda, 
the mind goes there on it's own accord.  So, that would be the intermediate 
step before proclaiming it is the most superior.  That statement would be 
prefaced by saying it is the "most natural".
 
 First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.
 It sounds like you are describing the different kinds of samadhis.  So, I 
guess you are providing a little background here.
 
 Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!
 I think this debate has gone on many times here.  For me, it is a moot issue.  
It seems to be how one wants to describe effortlessness. 
 
 So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.
 Like I say, for some this is an important issue, but not for me.  I felt the 
technique worked pretty well
 
 Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.
 This sounds about right to me.
 
 Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.
 Regarding breath, it has been sometime since I've had something like that, 
especially since for me, the practice is sporadic, at best.  But I did 
subjectively correlate shallowness of breath, or seeming no breath with periods 
of deep meditation.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Judy, it was an honest mistake. When I put consistency is the hobgoblin in the 
google window, that's what the drop downs showed. They did not show the word 
foolish.


On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:38 PM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
Opsie-Share. You left a word out of that quote there, didn'cha? How 
dishonest is that?

OTOH, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.


Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!




Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is
that enough figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)


Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears that 
you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  Are 
you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to you? 
Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know that 
Apple stores even existed!  



---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM,
"emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

I couldn't get to the interviews from those links.  But from the links provided 
a few months ago, I'd say that he came off better in print than he did on live 
interviews.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Emily, it's interesting that you say I'm using Apple because I'm communicating 
with people who are using Apple. Interesting but I don't agree. Also, I enjoy 
learning new stuff like that there are Apple stores and genius bars. As for 
uncomfortable feelings...tap, tap, tap...  




On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:22 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
Ha ha ha.  Blah, blah, blah.  What Share, *what* is an "interesting 
perspective?"  The fact that you do reduce things to "right and wrong?"  Try 
this on for "interesting." Maybe you really *did* take the tiniest, barely 
noticeable, exception to the fact that Ann and I were teasing you about not 
knowing that Apple has stores and "genius bars," but you didn't want to admit 
it (that would require admitting to a possibly uncomfortable feeling), so, 
instead, you denied it and told her she was "wrong."  



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough figuring for 
one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)


Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears that 
you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  Are 
you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to you? 
Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know that 
Apple stores even existed!  



---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Opsie-Share. You left a word out of that quote there, didn'cha? How 
dishonest is that? 

 OTOH, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.
 

 

 Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!
 
 

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Emily, I've written before about going to Whole Foods in Annapolis so I'll let 
you figure it out for yourself...

On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:03 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:

Yes, take a picture of the inside this time.  It is unlikely, (although still 
possible), that Share will ask what kind of a place it is. What do you think 
Share, am I right or wrong about this? :)  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 3/28/2014 4:07 PM, authfriend@... wrote:

Translation: Ifyou think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think
coming. What a nerve!
>>
This thread about what we did the other day at the Apple Store is
getting a lot of mileage. We should be getting out more. Maybe we
should go to Whole Foods Market and get some shoyu and some more
organic brown rice.
>
>
>
>>
>>Emily, that's
a very interesting perspective.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

It all depends on how you define "real" Richard.  "Real" as defined by the 
physical laws of gravity supports your statement that Fred Lenz didn't 
levitate.  However, if "real" as a term is defined, for example, as a 
subjective experience, it could result in the statement that "Dick and Jane 
both 'saw' or perceived Rama levitating" and it was a very "real" experience.  
Whether it was induced by some means is irrelevant to my point or definition of 
"real" in this context. That's all I've ever said about that.  The point I was 
making to you is that it is false to continue to state that Barry was the 
*only* person to have the experience of Rama levitating.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/28/2014 12:51 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote:
 >
 > Re: I try to remember the good parts of the ride.
 > Clearly, you've moved on.  Richard, on the other hand, hasn't.  Smile.  
 >
 What you need to understand. Emily, is that nobody saw Rama levitate for REAL 
- it was all smoke and mirrors. Levitation is the ability to suspend an object 
by a physical force against gravity, in a stable position without solid 
physical contact. According to my sources, the reason behind flooding the 
lecture hall with golden light and various other colored lights was a 
distraction so that Rama could APPEAR to levitate up into the air. At one point 
he used real smoke as a cover. Go figure.

 Here is how it works:

 You get a bunch of guys and a few gals to pay you $1000 to meet up in a sweat 
lodge out in the desert at night. Inside the lodge it's about 100 degrees with 
about five wood fire pits burning and dozens of lighted incense sticks stuck in 
the sand all around. Notice how they turn the lights down real low.

 Then, you bring out the mescal beans and the tequila and pass it around with 
the peace pipe filled with the cannabis. Then they start the slow chanting and 
bring in the bass drum. At about this time Rama begins to speak: "I am the Zen 
Master Rama..."

 In fact, all the Rama was doing was what cult members call Stage 1 - "bun 
hopping." Stage 2 is simple "hovering", according to advanced cult members. 
But, it's not REAL levitation, which is total suspension with no physical 
support. 

 However, there is this one report that is seriously being investigated:

 So, who would you believe?

 A Harvard-trained scientist of physics and rocket science, who said there was 
no proven levitation event in any peer-reviewed learned journal in the last 100 
years.

 Or:

 A ex-cult member, hippie writer living in Amsterdam whose leader graduated 
from Stony Brook U in English literature, who wrote Surfing the Himalayas and 
committed suicide by jumping in a lake and drowning himself?

 On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 12:51 PM, mailto:emilymaenot@...> 
wrote:
   Re: I try to remember the good parts of the ride.
 Clearly, you've moved on.  Richard, on the other hand, hasn't.  Smile.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :

 From: "emilymaenot@..."  
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 6:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

   I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really have 
a theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of "enlightenment" - 
having never studied, read about, or pursued such a state. However, people are 
born with different levels of sensitivity - that I believe, so I rested there 
in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's latest interview.  

 Emily, I was there. At Ground Zero. And while I agree with you that there was 
something about Rama, I have no more theories than you do as to what that 
"something" was. 

It was what it was, and that was at times a marvelous Disneyland E-ticket ride. 
If I remember him at all (which honestly, I don't do all that much), I try to 
remember the good parts of the ride.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :

 As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.

 For me, I feel I've made

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

OTOH, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, etc.


On Friday, March 28, 2014 4:07 PM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!


Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough figuring for 
one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)


Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears that 
you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  Are 
you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to you? 
Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know that 
Apple stores even existed!  



---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Sat 29-Mar-14 00:15:06 UTC

2014-03-28 Thread FFL PostCount

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 03/22/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 03/29/14 00:00:00
1003 messages as of (UTC) 03/28/14 23:49:55

169 Richard J. Williams 
104 authfriend
100 Share Long 
 67 steve.sundur
 65 TurquoiseBee 
 63 Michael Jackson 
 54 salyavin808 
 49 awoelflebater
 40 LEnglish5
 40 Bhairitu 
 37 doctordumbass
 35 nablusoss1008 
 29 dhamiltony2k5
 27 emilymaenot
 26 anartaxius
 19 jr_esq
 19 Pundit Sir 
 18 Mike Dixon 
  6 Rick Archer 
  5 cardemaister
  4 turquoiseb
  4 merudanda 
  4 emptybill
  4 Dick Mays 
  3 j_alexander_stanley
  2 yifuxero
  2 geezerfreak
  2 feste37 
  2 Duveyoung 
  1 wgm4u 
  1 ultrarishi 
  1 s3raphita
  1 Free N. Flourishing 
Posters: 33
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[FairfieldLife] The road that leads to YOU, is transendental meditation!

2014-03-28 Thread wgm4u


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5YKN32xoXw 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5YKN32xoXw
 

 Pilgrim, how you journey
 On the road you chose
 To find out why the winds die
 And where the stories go.

 All days come from one day
 That much you must know,
 You cannot change what's over
 But only where you go.

 One way leads to diamonds,
 One way leads to gold,
 Another leads you only
 To everything you're told.

 In your heart you wonder
 Which of these is true;
 The road that leads to nowhere,
 The road that leads to you.

 Will you find the answer
 In all you say and do?
 Will you find the answer
 In you?

 Each heart is a pilgrim,
 Each one wants to know
 The reason why the winds die
 And where the stories go.

 Pilgrim, in your journey
 You may travel far,
 For pilgrim it's a long way
 To find out who you are...

 Pilgrim, it's a long way
 To find out who you are...

 Pilgrim, it's a long way
 To find out who you are...

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Yes, take a picture of the inside this time.  It is unlikely, (although still 
possible), that Share will ask what kind of a place it is. What do you think 
Share, am I right or wrong about this? :)  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/28/2014 4:07 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 Translation: Ifyou think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve!

 This thread about what we did the other day at the Apple Store is getting a 
lot of mileage. We should be getting out more. Maybe we should go to Whole 
Foods Market and get some shoyu and some more organic brown rice.
 
 
 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today


On 3/28/2014 4:07 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent 
right here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think 
coming. What a nerve!


This thread about what we did the other day at the Apple Store is 
getting a lot of mileage. We should be getting out more. Maybe we should 
go to Whole Foods Market and get some shoyu and some more organic brown 
rice.




Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

On 3/28/2014 3:48 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote:
> With regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as 
> 'effortless'?
 >
On a scale of one to ten, with one being effortless, and ten being 
maximum effort, I'd say that doing TM is about a 1.1, and sixth level 
calculus about a 9.9.

And, I don't recall anyone ever complaining about basic TM being 
difficult. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

2014-03-28 Thread Pundit Sir

On 3/28/2014 12:51 PM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Re: I try to remember the good parts of the ride.
> Clearly, you've moved on.  Richard, on the other hand, hasn't.  Smile.
>
What you need to understand. Emily, is that nobody saw Rama levitate for
REAL - it was all smoke and mirrors. Levitation is the ability to suspend
an object by a physical force against gravity, in a stable position without
solid physical contact. According to my sources, the reason behind flooding
the lecture hall with golden light and various other colored lights was a
distraction so that Rama could APPEAR to levitate up into the air. At one
point he used real smoke as a cover. Go figure.

Here is how it works:

You get a bunch of guys and a few gals to pay you $1000 to meet up in a
sweat lodge out in the desert at night. Inside the lodge it's about 100
degrees with about five wood fire pits burning and dozens of lighted
incense sticks stuck in the sand all around. Notice how they turn the
lights down real low.

Then, you bring out the mescal beans and the tequila and pass it around
with the peace pipe filled with the cannabis. Then they start the slow
chanting and bring in the bass drum. At about this time Rama begins to
speak: "I am the Zen Master Rama..."

In fact, all the Rama was doing was what cult members call Stage 1 - "bun
hopping." Stage 2 is simple "hovering", according to advanced cult members.
But, it's not REAL levitation, which is total suspension with no physical
support.

However, there is this one report that is seriously being investigated:

[image: Inline image 1]

So, who would you believe?

A Harvard-trained scientist of physics and rocket science, who said there
was no proven levitation event in any peer-reviewed learned journal in the
last 100 years.

Or:

A ex-cult member, hippie writer living in Amsterdam whose leader graduated
from Stony Brook U in English literature, who wrote Surfing the Himalayas
and committed suicide by jumping in a lake and drowning himself?


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 12:51 PM,  wrote:

>
>
> Re: I try to remember the good parts of the ride.
> Clearly, you've moved on.  Richard, on the other hand, hasn't.  Smile.
>
>
> ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
> *From:* "emilymaenot@..." 
>
> *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 6:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC
>
>
> I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really
> have a theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of
> "enlightenment" - having never studied, read about, or pursued such a
> state. However, people are born with different levels of sensitivity - that
> I believe, so I rested there in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's
> latest interview.
> Emily, I was there. At Ground Zero. And while I agree with you that there
> was something about Rama, I have no more theories than you do as to what
> that "something" was.
>
> It was what it was, and that was at times a marvelous Disneyland E-ticket
> ride. If I remember him at all (which honestly, I don't do all that much),
> I try to remember the good parts of the ride.
>
> ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
> As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people
> who were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda,
> Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for
> Elizibeth Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way
> feeling that they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But
> whatever it is, I felt they had it.
>
> I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with
> Fred Lenz.
>
> What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of
> course is your take away.
>
> Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or
> other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't
> have an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be
> enlightened, at least for me.
>
> For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't
> attempt to judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a
> cool manner, and by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.
>  I think that may be something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades
> books.  I'm a little tired so I can't remember accurately.
>
>
> ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
> Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a
> remarkable level of consciousnesses.
>
> I have no idea what that means, honestly"a remarkable level of
> consciousness."  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not
> everyone has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them
> along the way.  Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate
> with animals, for example, they are just wired that way, or particularly
> sensitive in

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

I think it would be the noticing, or maybe the recognizing, if one would call 
that an "effort." I don't know that being "aware" that there are thoughts 
emanating would be an "effort." I was subjectively defining these terms; I 
don't do TM, remember, so I don't speak with an understanding of the experience 
of it.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, which is effort, the noticing or the witnessing? BTW, I'm not a TM 
teacher so not really trained in all this.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:54 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Wow...I guess I transcend when I meditate - who knew?  Although, maybe I'm 
not, because I certainly "notice" the fact that I am witnessing my thoughts, 
which I consider an "effort." 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, witnessing thoughts is transcending at the same time that thinking is 
happening and yes, it is effortless.
 
 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:39 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Share, I assume that "witnessing thoughts" is not transcendencein that 
"it may be" that with advanced TM'ers, you being one, this can happen also. Is 
this what you meant?  Do you think "witnessing thoughts" is "effortless"?  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  wrote:
 
   
 On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 For me, the answer to Barry's question would be a definite No. (In fact, I 
think it would take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
 >
 Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation you've 
stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered off to other 
thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need to do is think the 
mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty or thirty minute transcendence.
 
  
 
 
 
 Forme, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how its 
adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when you become 
aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- to decide to think 
about something else and then do it?" 
 
 If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, because that 
is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that you are not thinking 
the mantra, come back to it."
 
 
 If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Ha ha ha.  Blah, blah, blah.  What Share, *what* is an "interesting 
perspective?"  The fact that you do reduce things to "right and wrong?"  Try 
this on for "interesting." Maybe you really *did* take the tiniest, barely 
noticeable, exception to the fact that Ann and I were teasing you about not 
knowing that Apple has stores and "genius bars," but you didn't want to admit 
it (that would require admitting to a possibly uncomfortable feeling), so, 
instead, you denied it and told her she was "wrong."  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

It was Harri Aalto, the Finnish fellow.  Posted on March 27th.  Rick sent FFL a 
link as always.  I haven't listened to the interview, but read the Intro - it 
is pretty interesting.   

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 The latest interview was Menos Kafatos, and the one before that was Jack 
Petranker.  Was it one of those, because I read the write ups, and nothing 
jumped out at me. 

 Let me also say, that I haven't really read any books on spiritual 
personalities in about 20 years.  The Lenz interviews I read about six years 
ago.  I've pretty much lost my interest in that kind of stuff.  But if someone 
asked me to define what enlightenment is, I'd have to defer to the traditional 
"I am that."
 

 But I'd like to know what you piqued your interest in that interview, 
whichever one it was.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really have a 
theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of "enlightenment" - 
having never studied, read about, or pursued such a state. However, people are 
born with different levels of sensitivity - that I believe, so I rested there 
in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's latest interview.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.
 

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.
 

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.
 

 For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to 
judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a cool manner, and 
by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.  I think that may be 
something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books.  I'm a little tired so 
I can't remember accurately.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable 
level of consciousnesses. 

 I have no idea what that means, honestly"a remarkable level of 
consciousness."  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone 
has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way.  
Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for 
example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that 
certain way and able to recognize it.  But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey 
to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. andit didn't 
go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their 
"teacher" and "leader." 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved 
a remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts 
of two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But 
I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  
Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left 
with after reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase "altered perception."  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in "engaging" with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there

[FairfieldLife] Mind reading by machine?

This is amazing. 
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2591882/We-know-thinking-Groundbreaking-mind-reading-experiment-reconstructs-faces-people-looking-brain-scans.html
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2591882/We-know-thinking-Groundbreaking-mind-reading-experiment-reconstructs-faces-people-looking-brain-scans.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

I read this article a couple weeks ago, and found it kind of interesting. 

 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303287804579443160558822086 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303287804579443160558822086
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Old Grand-Dad was a distiller named Basil Hayden who made his name by 
distilling a bourbon whiskey made with a higher percentage of rye giving it a 
more robust and spicy flavor. The distillery he started (along with his recipe) 
was handed down from generation to generation and it was his grandson, a 3rd 
generation distiller who ended up naming the whiskey after his grandpa Old 
Grand-Dad. During prohibition the company who owned Old Grand-Dad made the 
whiskey as a “medicinal whiskey” that could be purchased with a doctor’s 
prescription keeping this delicious tipple alive, kicking and good for what 
ails ya.
 
 One thing you’ll notice on the bottle of Old Grand-Dad is that it says, in 
very large letters, Bottled In Bond. What that means is that the whiskey was 
made during one distillation season (Jan – Dec) by one distiller at one 
distillery. But that’s not all. It must also be aged in a federally bonded 
warehouse for at least 4 years and be bottled at 100 proof. The bottle’s label 
must also list the distillery it was created in and where it was bottled at (if 
different than the distillery). Most folks think it’s a relic of ye olden days, 
but I think it’s fantastic and really shows off the talent of the distiller who 
can’t rely on multi-distillation blending to get the flavor right but skill and 
experience alone.
 
 Of all “The Olds” Old Grand-Dad is my favorite and also happens to be one of 
the whiskeys I believe doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. Next time 
you’re hosting a blind bourbon tasting add this to your line up. You’ll be 
surprised how many of your fellow whiskey snobs will tell you they like it but 
might have turned their nose up if they had known what it was. Just goes to 
show that you can’t judge a whiskey by it’s bright orange label.
 
 http://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/old-grand-dad-review/ 
http://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/old-grand-dad-review/
 
 
 On Fri, 3/28/14, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@...> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 9:13 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Like Jack Daniel's burning holes through your
 karma. Smooth. (Although on the web some say Jack Daniels is
 for pussies:
 It isn't so
 much that Jack is bad, (but it ain't great) it is that
 outside of being drank neat, it isn't detectable as
 whiskey, it’s more of a light sweet water.  Jack
 & Coke is something that children vomit from on their
 birthdays.  Much like light beer, Jack’s loyalty lies
 in the fear of something different and the fear of not
 knowing what to order in a
 bar.)
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 Xeno, for me the best descriptors
 would be the words flowing and simple. But I bet others
 would choose different words as the best descriptors.
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 PM,
 "anartaxius@..."  wrote:
 
  With
 regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as
 'effortless'? The definition of effortless
 is 'requiring no physical
 or mental exertion'. The word has
 synonymseasyoffhandpainlessuncomplicatedchild's
 playcursiveduck
 soupfacileflowingfluentlightno
 problemno sweatpicnicpiece
 of
 cakeroyalrunningsimplesmoothsnapundemandinguntroublesome
 Now if you take Zen meditation, and
 remove the posture requirements usually associated with it
 and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably
 and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being
 still, this would seem pretty effortless. The mind just goes
 where it will and whatever experience comes through the
 senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as
 it comes. From the information published online by
 Adyashanti, he seems to recommend something like this. He
 even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes it as
 the 'natural state'. I think good quality
 comparative research might be revealing here, as both these
 kinds of meditation seem to have produced very positive
 results for people in spite of some interesting differences
 (which Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).
 The argument that meditation x is
 0.01% more effortless than meditation y seems to be
 pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that
 doing two different kinds of meditation might produce
 superior results to just one kind. There is also the issue
 of what feels
 natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

Old Grand-Dad was a distiller named Basil Hayden who made his name by 
distilling a bourbon whiskey made with a higher percentage of rye giving it a 
more robust and spicy flavor. The distillery he started (along with his recipe) 
was handed down from generation to generation and it was his grandson, a 3rd 
generation distiller who ended up naming the whiskey after his grandpa Old 
Grand-Dad. During prohibition the company who owned Old Grand-Dad made the 
whiskey as a “medicinal whiskey” that could be purchased with a doctor’s 
prescription keeping this delicious tipple alive, kicking and good for what 
ails ya.

One thing you’ll notice on the bottle of Old Grand-Dad is that it says, in very 
large letters, Bottled In Bond. What that means is that the whiskey was made 
during one distillation season (Jan – Dec) by one distiller at one distillery. 
But that’s not all. It must also be aged in a federally bonded warehouse for at 
least 4 years and be bottled at 100 proof. The bottle’s label must also list 
the distillery it was created in and where it was bottled at (if different than 
the distillery). Most folks think it’s a relic of ye olden days, but I think 
it’s fantastic and really shows off the talent of the distiller who can’t rely 
on multi-distillation blending to get the flavor right but skill and experience 
alone.

Of all “The Olds” Old Grand-Dad is my favorite and also happens to be one of 
the whiskeys I believe doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. Next time 
you’re hosting a blind bourbon tasting add this to your line up. You’ll be 
surprised how many of your fellow whiskey snobs will tell you they like it but 
might have turned their nose up if they had known what it was. Just goes to 
show that you can’t judge a whiskey by it’s bright orange label.

http://thewhiskeyjug.com/bourbon-whiskey/old-grand-dad-review/


On Fri, 3/28/14, anartax...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 9:13 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Like Jack Daniel's burning holes through your
 karma. Smooth. (Although on the web some say Jack Daniels is
 for pussies:
 It isn't so
 much that Jack is bad, (but it ain't great) it is that
 outside of being drank neat, it isn't detectable as
 whiskey, it’s more of a light sweet water.  Jack
 & Coke is something that children vomit from on their
 birthdays.  Much like light beer, Jack’s loyalty lies
 in the fear of something different and the fear of not
 knowing what to order in a
 bar.)
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :
 
 Xeno, for me the best descriptors
 would be the words flowing and simple. But I bet others
 would choose different words as the best descriptors.
 
   On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 PM,
 "anartaxius@..."  wrote:
  
  With
 regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as
 'effortless'? The definition of effortless
 is 'requiring no physical
 or mental exertion'. The word has
 synonymseasyoffhandpainlessuncomplicatedchild's
 playcursiveduck
 soupfacileflowingfluentlightno
 problemno sweatpicnicpiece
 of
 cakeroyalrunningsimplesmoothsnapundemandinguntroublesome
 Now if you take Zen meditation, and
 remove the posture requirements usually associated with it
 and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably
 and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being
 still, this would seem pretty effortless. The mind just goes
 where it will and whatever experience comes through the
 senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as
 it comes. From the information published online by
 Adyashanti, he seems to recommend something like this. He
 even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes it as
 the 'natural state'. I think good quality
 comparative research might be revealing here, as both these
 kinds of meditation seem to have produced very positive
 results for people in spite of some interesting differences
 (which Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).
 The argument that meditation x is
 0.01% more effortless than meditation y seems to be
 pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that
 doing two different kinds of meditation might produce
 superior results to just one kind. There is also the issue
 of what feels
 natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

The latest interview was Menos Kafatos, and the one before that was Jack 
Petranker.  Was it one of those, because I read the write ups, and nothing 
jumped out at me. 

 Let me also say, that I haven't really read any books on spiritual 
personalities in about 20 years.  The Lenz interviews I read about six years 
ago.  I've pretty much lost my interest in that kind of stuff.  But if someone 
asked me to define what enlightenment is, I'd have to defer to the traditional 
"I am that."
 

 But I'd like to know what you piqued your interest in that interview, 
whichever one it was.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really have a 
theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of "enlightenment" - 
having never studied, read about, or pursued such a state. However, people are 
born with different levels of sensitivity - that I believe, so I rested there 
in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's latest interview.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.
 

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.
 

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.
 

 For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to 
judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a cool manner, and 
by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.  I think that may be 
something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books.  I'm a little tired so 
I can't remember accurately.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable 
level of consciousnesses. 

 I have no idea what that means, honestly"a remarkable level of 
consciousness."  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone 
has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way.  
Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for 
example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that 
certain way and able to recognize it.  But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey 
to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. andit didn't 
go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their 
"teacher" and "leader." 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved 
a remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts 
of two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But 
I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  
Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left 
with after reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase "altered perception."  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in "engaging" with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?
 
 The only person here "dodging and weaving" and "hiding" is you. I think you're 
doing so because you don't want to reveal that your marriage is as rocky as 
your hold on sanity. >
 Speaking of "dodging a

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.


 I researched the sports watches and there are only a few that are capable of 
measuring all the way down to zero. For some reason the manufacturers didn't 
think people going jogging would need that facility! The one I was going to buy 
cost about $300 but was really cool and had loads of handy functions like best 
lap time and average rate for the work out, all downloadable. But I decided 
that wearing it might prejudice the innocence of the meditation and might make 
me strain for a still heart which wouldn't work at all I suspect...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I was going to do that too. Online those sensors they put on your finger cost 
less than $2.  You could probably set up a simple software program or even 
VideoLan to record the pulses.  Problem with sensors were they were only sold 
in lots and I didn't need "lots."  BTW, I told my tantra guru I wanted to do 
this and he told me not to.  I do have one of those finger oxygen monitor that 
can be worn on the finger and gives the heart rate.
 
 On 03/28/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   

 I always wanted a heart monitor watch so I could monitor my meditating. You 
can get them that download your program (or daily run) to a computer so you can 
keep track of progress. I could have sold the results to Lawson...
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 There are wireless enabled bracelets that could alert people if the pulse 
stopped being registered (they're also waterproof so can be worn in showers).  
A friend (who isn't an oldster) has one to track activities to aid his dieting. 
They will probably be the wave of the future unless they round up us oldsters 
and do a "Logan's Run" on us out at the gravel pits.
 
 On 03/28/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   Sad story, probably what'll happen to us, old and alone in our tiny flats 
with just the flickering light of the FFL message screen to give an indication 
of what happened

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :
 
 Sounds like a variant of Schoedinger's Cat. Was the spirit of the original cat 
still there in any of its descendents?  :-)
 
 
 
 Speaking of Schroedinger's Cat, I saw a news story today that reminded me that 
to some extent people in modern society are a lot like that cat in the mystery 
box -- are we really alive, or not? The article was about a woman whose body 
was found in her house. This is not all that unusual, except that she appears 
to have been dead since 2009. 
 
 
 
 No one noticed because all that time her bills were paid every month, and on 
time, electronically and automatically. 
 
 

 From: "anartaxius@..." mailto:anartaxius@...  
mailto:anartaxius@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 5:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.
 
 
   This reminds me of the following story:
 When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, 
the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. So 
the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice. Years 
later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the 
meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought 
to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the 
spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of 
tying up a cat for meditation practice.
 
 -
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :
 
 That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: "That's 
just how things are done around here." 

 From: salyavin808  mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)

But if you think about it, waiting for the check to transfer would probably be 
better than waiting for an electronic bank transfer. because at the speed of 
light/electricity, it would take 440 years to complete. At least with the check 
you've got something to hold onto while waiting. :-)

 From: TurquoiseBee 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"  
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)

They are reimbursed, but the check is drawn on the First National Bank of the 
Pleiades, so good luck cashing it.  :-) 

 From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)

Are the farmers re-reimbursed for
the loss of crop from all those circles.  That would really piss
me off if those showed up in my fields one morning.
-Buck

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

2014-03-28 Thread Bhairitu

I was going to do that too. Online those sensors they put on your finger 
cost less than $2.  You could probably set up a simple software program 
or even VideoLan to record the pulses.  Problem with sensors were they 
were only sold in lots and I didn't need "lots."  BTW, I told my tantra 
guru I wanted to do this and he told me not to.  I do have one of those 
finger oxygen monitor that can be worn on the finger and gives the heart 
rate.


On 03/28/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote:



I always wanted a heart monitor watch so I could monitor my 
meditating. You can get them that download your program (or daily run) 
to a computer so you can keep track of progress. I could have sold the 
results to Lawson...


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

There are wireless enabled bracelets that could alert people if the 
pulse stopped being registered (they're also waterproof so can be worn 
in showers). A friend (who isn't an oldster) has one to track 
activities to aid his dieting. They will probably be the wave of the 
future unless they round up us oldsters and do a "Logan's Run" on us 
out at the gravel pits.


On 03/28/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

Sad story, probably what'll happen to us, old and alone in our tiny 
flats with just the flickering light of the FFL message screen to 
give an indication of what happened




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


Sounds like a variant of Schoedinger's Cat. Was the spirit of the 
original cat still there in any of its descendents?  :-)


Speaking of Schroedinger's Cat, I saw a news story today that 
reminded me that to some extent people in modern society are a lot 
like that cat in the mystery box -- are we really alive, or not? The 
article was about a woman whose body was found in her house. This is 
not all that unusual, except that she appears to have been dead since 
2009.


No one noticed because all that time her bills were paid every month, 
and on time, electronically and automatically.



*From:* "anartaxius@..."   

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 


*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 5:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

This reminds me of the following story:
When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening 
meditation, the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that 
it distracted them. So the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up 
during the evening practice. Years later, when the teacher died, the 
cat continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when 
the cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery and 
tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual 
teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of 
tying up a cat for meditation practice.


-
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: 
"That's just how things are done around here."



*From:* salyavin808  

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 


*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

Like Jack Daniel's burning holes through your karma. Smooth. (Although on the 
web some say Jack Daniels is for pussies: 

 It isn't so much that Jack is bad, (but it ain't great) it is that outside of 
being drank neat, it isn't detectable as whiskey, it’s more of a light sweet 
water.  Jack & Coke is something that children vomit from on their birthdays.  
Much like light beer, Jack’s loyalty lies in the fear of something different 
and the fear of not knowing what to order in a bar.)
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Xeno, for me the best descriptors would be the words flowing and simple. But I 
bet others would choose different words as the best descriptors.
 

 On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 PM, "anartaxius@..."  wrote:
 
   With regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as 
'effortless'? The definition of effortless is 'requiring no physical or mental 
exertion'. The word has synonyms
 easy
 offhand
 painless
 uncomplicated
 child's play
 cursive
 duck soup
 facile
 flowing
 fluent
 light
 no problem
 no sweat
 picnic
 piece of cake
 royal
 running
 simple
 smooth
 snap
 undemanding
 untroublesome
 

 Now if you take Zen meditation, and remove the posture requirements usually 
associated with it and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably 
and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being still, this would seem 
pretty effortless. The mind just goes where it will and whatever experience 
comes through the senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as 
it comes. From the information published online by Adyashanti, he seems to 
recommend something like this. He even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes 
it as the 'natural state'. I think good quality comparative research might be 
revealing here, as both these kinds of meditation seem to have produced very 
positive results for people in spite of some interesting differences (which 
Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).
 

 The argument that meditation x is 0.01% more effortless than meditation y 
seems to be pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that doing 
two different kinds of meditation might produce superior results to just one 
kind. There is also the issue of what feels natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Translation: If you think I'm going to acknowledge being inconsistent right 
here in front of God and everybody, you've got another think coming. What a 
nerve! 
 Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

Depending on the context, capitalisation certainly can be used for emphasis, 
but in this case it looks like a mistake because the word 'is' is so short. On 
a forum that allows some typeface adjustment I would have used 'Is TM an 
effortless practice?' In HTML there are elements (tags)   and  one 
can place around a word which are usually rendered italic and bold 
respectively. These work with audio rendition as well as visual rendition (if 
the software supports) rather than being merely visual decorative formatting. 
The method of using asterisks can also be useful for plain text: 

 *Is* TM an Effortless Practice?
 

 At any rate I did not read the heading as being emphasised but just
 

 Is TM an Effortless Practice?
 

 Any other molehills we can make mountains out of?
 -

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As Xeno knows, all-caps are often used for emphasis in Web comments. 

 No, I was having fun, but I was unaware of Michael's situation at home. The 
first typo is 'IS' instead of 'Is' and the second typo is 'and' instead of 
'an'. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 He knows that. He's just being disagreeable. And there's only one typo, not "a 
couple" as he says. 

 

 It was supposed to read "Is TM an Effortless Practice?" 
 
 
 Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

Xeno, for me the best descriptors would be the words flowing and simple. But I 
bet others would choose different words as the best descriptors.


On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 PM, "anartax...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
With regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as 'effortless'? 
The definition of effortless is 'requiring no physical or mental exertion'. The 
word has synonyms
easy
offhand
painless
uncomplicated
child's play
cursive
duck soup
facile
flowing
fluent
light
no problem
no sweat
picnic
piece of cake
royal
running
simple
smooth
snap
undemanding
untroublesome

Now if you take Zen meditation, and remove the posture requirements usually 
associated with it and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably 
and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being still, this would seem 
pretty effortless. The mind just goes where it will and whatever experience 
comes through the senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as 
it comes. From the information published online by Adyashanti, he seems to 
recommend something like this. He even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes 
it as the 'natural state'. I think good quality comparative research might be 
revealing here, as both these kinds of meditation seem to have produced very 
positive results for people in spite of some interesting differences (which 
Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).

The argument that meditation x is 0.01% more effortless than meditation y seems 
to be pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that doing two 
different kinds of meditation might produce superior results to just one kind. 
There is also the issue of what feels natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Is TM an Effortless Practice?

With regard to effortlessness, exactly what would be regarded as 'effortless'? 
The definition of effortless is 'requiring no physical or mental exertion'. The 
word has synonyms easy
 offhand
 painless
 uncomplicated
 child's play
 cursive
 duck soup
 facile
 flowing
 fluent
 light
 no problem
 no sweat
 picnic
 piece of cake
 royal
 running
 simple
 smooth
 snap
 undemanding
 untroublesome
 

 Now if you take Zen meditation, and remove the posture requirements usually 
associated with it and also allow the eyes to close, and just sit comfortably 
and do nothing, not even starting a mantra, just being still, this would seem 
pretty effortless. The mind just goes where it will and whatever experience 
comes through the senses also is just handled like in TM, basically take it as 
it comes. From the information published online by Adyashanti, he seems to 
recommend something like this. He even calls it 'True Meditation' and describes 
it as the 'natural state'. I think good quality comparative research might be 
revealing here, as both these kinds of meditation seem to have produced very 
positive results for people in spite of some interesting differences (which 
Lawson mentioned in a post earlier).
 

 The argument that meditation x is 0.01% more effortless than meditation y 
seems to be pointless splitting hairs. Perhaps research might show that doing 
two different kinds of meditation might produce superior results to just one 
kind. There is also the issue of what feels natural to the person meditating.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

As Xeno knows, all-caps are often used for emphasis in Web comments. 

 No, I was having fun, but I was unaware of Michael's situation at home. The 
first typo is 'IS' instead of 'Is' and the second typo is 'and' instead of 
'an'. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 He knows that. He's just being disagreeable. And there's only one typo, not "a 
couple" as he says. 

 

 It was supposed to read "Is TM an Effortless Practice?" 
 
 
 Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today


On 3/28/2014 10:11 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:

Is that enough figuring for one day do you think?

>
Anyway, I figure I'll just go to the online Apple Store from now on - 
I'm not that big on malls.


http://store.apple.com/us

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

No, I was having fun, but I was unaware of Michael's situation at home. The 
first typo is 'IS' instead of 'Is' and the second typo is 'and' instead of 
'an'. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 He knows that. He's just being disagreeable. And there's only one typo, not "a 
couple" as he says. 

 

 It was supposed to read "Is TM an Effortless Practice?" 
 
 
 Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?


On 3/28/2014 12:41 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


*That was my question, BTW, and I supplied the same URL. It's always 
good to credit your sources.*



>*
*It sort of looks like the work of "Honest" John Knapp.**Go figure.*
*



From raght here

http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/2009/09/lies-of-tm-1-effortless-lie.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today


On 3/28/2014 6:28 AM, emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote:


And you thought this because of all the kids you saw in the picture, 
hanging out in the "science museum"? Righteeooo, Share.  Way to cover


The last time I was at the local science museum I saw hundreds of kids 
hanging out on a school field day. At the Apple Store, I saw people of 
all ages. What surprised me was that the kids that work there are all 
probably close to being genius level, compared to your average 
baby-boomer. LoL!


Am I the only informant on this list that has been to an Apple Store? 
There's one online. Go figure.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Richard, I thought maybe you were at one of those science museums for 
kids. There's a great one in Madison, WI. Or at least used to be...

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

He knows that. He's just being disagreeable. And there's only one typo, not "a 
couple" as he says. 

 

 It was supposed to read "Is TM an Effortless Practice?" 
 
 
 Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

typos are there because I was typing fast - very little time for FFL right now 
as my mother and her husband are visiting - he is in the advanced stages of 
Alzheimers and when they are here, everything revolves around his needs - thus 
no time for proofing before hitting "send"

On Fri, 3/28/14, anartax...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 6:32 PM

   Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

It was supposed to read "Is TM an Effortless Practice?"

On Fri, 3/28/14, anartax...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 6:32 PM

   Note that
 the subject of this thread 'IS TM and
 Effortless Practice' is nonsensical because of a couple
 of typos.
 The first
 part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there
 is such as thing as TM, unless this means there is something
 called 'IS TM' whose existence is being
 questioned. Maybe it
 means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new
 kind of pill from 'IS'
 This is
 conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the
 conjunction 'and'.
 Is there
 such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as
 something called 'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.


 I always wanted a heart monitor watch so I could monitor my meditating. You 
can get them that download your program (or daily run) to a computer so you can 
keep track of progress. I could have sold the results to Lawson...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 There are wireless enabled bracelets that could alert people if the pulse 
stopped being registered (they're also waterproof so can be worn in showers).  
A friend (who isn't an oldster) has one to track activities to aid his dieting. 
They will probably be the wave of the future unless they round up us oldsters 
and do a "Logan's Run" on us out at the gravel pits.
 
 On 03/28/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   Sad story, probably what'll happen to us, old and alone in our tiny flats 
with just the flickering light of the FFL message screen to give an indication 
of what happened

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :
 
 Sounds like a variant of Schoedinger's Cat. Was the spirit of the original cat 
still there in any of its descendents?  :-)
 
 
 
 Speaking of Schroedinger's Cat, I saw a news story today that reminded me that 
to some extent people in modern society are a lot like that cat in the mystery 
box -- are we really alive, or not? The article was about a woman whose body 
was found in her house. This is not all that unusual, except that she appears 
to have been dead since 2009. 
 
 
 
 No one noticed because all that time her bills were paid every month, and on 
time, electronically and automatically. 
 
 

 From: "anartaxius@..." mailto:anartaxius@...  
mailto:anartaxius@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 5:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.
 
 
   This reminds me of the following story:
 When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, 
the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. So 
the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice. Years 
later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the 
meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought 
to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the 
spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of 
tying up a cat for meditation practice.
 
 -
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :
 
 That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: "That's 
just how things are done around here." 

 From: salyavin808  mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Emily, which is effort, the noticing or the witnessing? BTW, I'm not a TM 
teacher so not really trained in all this.

On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:54 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:

Wow...I guess I transcend when I meditate - who knew?  Although, maybe I'm not, 
because I certainly "notice" the fact that I am witnessing my thoughts, which I 
consider an "effort." 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Emily, witnessing thoughts is transcending at the same time that thinking is 
happening and yes, it is effortless.

On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:39 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

Share, I assume that "witnessing thoughts" is not transcendencein that "it 
may be" that with advanced TM'ers, you being one, this can happen also. Is this 
what you meant?  Do you think "witnessing thoughts" is "effortless"?  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...

On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  wrote:

On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfriend@... wrote:

For me, the answer to Barry's
question would be a definite No. (In fact, I think it would
take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
>
>>Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation
you've stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered
off to other thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need
to do is think the mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty
or thirty minute transcendence.
>>
>>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Forme, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to
how its adherents would answer the question: "Does it take
effort -- when you become aware that you have a choice about
what to think about -- to decide
to think about something else and then do it?"
>>>
>>>
>>>If they
answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not
effortless, because that is its literal
instruction: "When you become aware that you are
not thinking the mantra, come back to it."
>>>
>>>
>>>If that process
requires effort, then TM is not effortless. 
>>

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Emily, that's a very interesting perspective.





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:56 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
 




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough figuring for 
one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)


Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears that 
you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  Are 
you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to you? 
Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know that 
Apple stores even existed!  



---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

2014-03-28 Thread Bhairitu

There are wireless enabled bracelets that could alert people if the 
pulse stopped being registered (they're also waterproof so can be worn 
in showers).  A friend (who isn't an oldster) has one to track 
activities to aid his dieting. They will probably be the wave of the 
future unless they round up us oldsters and do a "Logan's Run" on us out 
at the gravel pits.


On 03/28/2014 10:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote:


Sad story, probably what'll happen to us, old and alone in our tiny 
flats with just the flickering light of the FFL message screen to give 
an indication of what happened




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Sounds like a variant of Schoedinger's Cat. Was the spirit of the 
original cat still there in any of its descendents?  :-)


Speaking of Schroedinger's Cat, I saw a news story today that reminded 
me that to some extent people in modern society are a lot like that 
cat in the mystery box -- are we really alive, or not? The article was 
about a woman whose body was found in her house. This is not all that 
unusual, except that she appears to have been dead since 2009.


No one noticed because all that time her bills were paid every month, 
and on time, electronically and automatically.



*From:* "anartaxius@..." 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 5:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

This reminds me of the following story:
When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening 
meditation, the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it 
distracted them. So the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during 
the evening practice. Years later, when the teacher died, the cat 
continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when the 
cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery and tied 
up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual teacher 
wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of tying up 
a cat for meditation practice.


-
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: 
"That's just how things are done around here."



*From:* salyavin808 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

The Experiment

[FairfieldLife] From Clyde Cleveland:

2014-03-28 Thread Free N. Flourishing

>From Clyde Cleveland:

Dear Friends:

I will be giving another public 
presentation similar to the January presentations with Foster Gamble and Bob 
Podolsky.  It will be at 1:15 P.M this Saturday afternoon (March 29th) at the 
Overland Sheepskin company on the third floor.  I hope you can come and bring 
friends.  

This is about creating a new model for accomplishing whatever you are trying to 
accomplish: your business, your favorite 
cause, issues affecting local government, labeling GMO's, etc 


Buckminster Fuller: "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. 
To 
change something, build a new model that makes the existing model 
obsolete." 



It is also about creating a new model that will eventually replace our current 
coercive institutions.

This new model has already been implemented in a very similar way by 
companies like Gore and SEMCO.  Ricardo Semler knows the structure they 
have implemented at their company could literally change all of our 
institutions in every arena.  They have a division that has already 
helped police forces, hospitals, and non-profit organizations make these 
changes.

"Semco is bucking not only the traditional business model, we’re resisting a 
code of behavior at the very core of Western culture. No wonder our 
ideals are hard for outsiders and other companies to embrace." Ricardo 
Semler

If you would like to learn more you can go to our website at 
www.flourishfairfield.org
  and watch the videos from previous presentations, listen to the KRUU radio 
interviews or read my preface to the book Flourish by Bob Podolsky

We hope to see you there on Saturday and please share this email with your 
friends who may want to come. 

Just to clarify I will be doing the presentation, neither Foster Gamble or 
Bob Podolsky will be there, however their videos are on our website. 

Thanks

Clyde Cleveland


Clyde ClevelandCommon Sense Revisited

813-944-8900 cell


clyde@
commonsenserevisited.com
 

www.commonsenserevisited.com
  Clyde J. Cleveland
President, Randall Marketing Group

cl...@randallmarketinggroup.com
 
813-944-8900 cell
"Everything that is really great and inspiringis created by the individual who 
can labor in freedom." Albert Einstein

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

That's not the point Share.  How do you know that "you do not use Apple 
computers" is a *true* statement? Depends on how you define the word "use" 
maybe?  Maybe you "use" them indirectly as both Ann and I have Apple products 
that we "use" to post here and you are "using" my post to reply to.  I'm not 
judging the "appropriateness" of your choice of "right" and "wrong", I'm just 
reminding you that, based on what you wrote, you *do* reduce things to "right" 
and "wrong", thus invalidating or rendering inconsistent your statement that 
you don't think like that.  My answer to your answer is "I don't know."  Smile. 
  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically 
(RIGHT) and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not 
know Apple Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all 
simplistic design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". 
(RIGHT) I figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some 
sort of cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making 
fun of the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough 
figuring for one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Wow...I guess I transcend when I meditate - who knew?  Although, maybe I'm not, 
because I certainly "notice" the fact that I am witnessing my thoughts, which I 
consider an "effort." 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, witnessing thoughts is transcending at the same time that thinking is 
happening and yes, it is effortless.
 
 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:39 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   Share, I assume that "witnessing thoughts" is not transcendencein that 
"it may be" that with advanced TM'ers, you being one, this can happen also. Is 
this what you meant?  Do you think "witnessing thoughts" is "effortless"?  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  wrote:
 
   
 On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 For me, the answer to Barry's question would be a definite No. (In fact, I 
think it would take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
 >
 Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation you've 
stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered off to other 
thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need to do is think the 
mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty or thirty minute transcendence.
 
  
 
 
 
 Forme, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how its 
adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when you become 
aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- to decide to think 
about something else and then do it?" 
 
 If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, because that 
is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that you are not thinking 
the mantra, come back to it."
 
 
 If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Emily, witnessing thoughts is transcending at the same time that thinking is 
happening and yes, it is effortless.





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:39 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
Share, I assume that "witnessing thoughts" is not transcendencein that "it 
may be" that with advanced TM'ers, you being one, this can happen also. Is this 
what you meant?  Do you think "witnessing thoughts" is "effortless"?  



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  wrote:

 
On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfriend@... wrote:

For me, the answer to Barry's
question would be a definite No. (In fact, I think it would
take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
>
>Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation
you've stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered
off to other thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need
to do is think the mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty
or thirty minute transcendence.
>
>
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>Forme, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to
how its adherents would answer the question: "Does it take
effort -- when you become aware that you have a choice about
what to think about -- to decide
to think about something else and then do it?"
>>
>>
>>If they
answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not
effortless, because that is its literal
instruction: "When you become aware that you are
not thinking the mantra, come back to it."
>>
>>
>>If that process
requires effort, then TM is not effortless. 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Share, I assume that "witnessing thoughts" is not transcendencein that "it 
may be" that with advanced TM'ers, you being one, this can happen also. Is this 
what you meant?  Do you think "witnessing thoughts" is "effortless"?  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  wrote:
 
   
 On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 For me, the answer to Barry's question would be a definite No. (In fact, I 
think it would take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
 >
 Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation you've 
stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered off to other 
thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need to do is think the 
mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty or thirty minute transcendence.
 
  
 
 
 
 Forme, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how its 
adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when you become 
aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- to decide to think 
about something else and then do it?" 
 
 If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, because that 
is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that you are not thinking 
the mantra, come back to it."
 
 
 If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

So Emily, when Ann wrote about me "you do not use Apple computers" what do you 
think would have been an appropriate answer?!





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:28 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough figuring for 
one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)


Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears that 
you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  Are 
you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to you? 
Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know that 
Apple stores even existed!  



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Note that the subject of this thread 'IS TM and Effortless Practice' is 
nonsensical because of a couple of typos.
 

 The first part 'IS TM'  would seem to be asking if there is such as thing as 
TM, unless this means there is something called 'IS TM' whose existence is 
being questioned. 
 Maybe it means Integrated Systems Transcendental Medication, a new kind of 
pill from 'IS'
 

 This is conjoined with 'Effortless Practice' with the conjunction 'and'.
 

 Is there such a thing as 'Effortless Practice' as well as something called 
'TM'?

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Ok, if you say so. (RIGHT) I figure you are not very savvy technically (RIGHT) 
and that you do not use Apple computers.(RIGHT) I figure you did not know Apple 
Stores existed (RIGHT) nor did you realize how cool they are, all simplistic 
design, glass and that they call their computer experts "geniuses". (RIGHT) I 
figure you figure that getting out of FF twice a year amounts to some sort of 
cultural pinnacle (WRONG) and I figure you took exception to me making fun of 
the fact you don't know about Apple Stores.(WRONG) Is that enough figuring for 
one day do you think? (DON'T KNOW)

 

 Well Share, you indicated 5 rights, 2 wrongs, and 1 don't know. it appears 
that you *do* look at at least some things in a right and wrong kind of a way.  
Are you *sure* you know enough to use those terms, even as you apply them to 
you? Very black and white thinking, imho. I am surprised that you didn't know 
that Apple stores even existed!  

 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Or you could be witnessing thoughts the whole time...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 1:02 PM, Richard J. Williams  
wrote:
 
  
On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:

For me, the answer to Barry's question would be a definite No. (In fact, I 
think it would take a bit of effort not to go back to the mantra.)
>
Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation
you've stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered
off to other thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need
to do is think the mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty
or thirty minute transcendence.


 
>
>
>
>For me, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how its 
>adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when you become 
>aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- to decide to think 
>about something else and then do it?" 
>
>
>If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, because that 
>is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that you are not thinking 
>the mantra, come back to it."
>
>
>If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

On 3/28/2014 10:22 AM, Share Long wrote:
> Yep, for me it's like the realization is the kite and the tail of the 
> kite is the mantra...
 >
It's like a the "vibration"system in Kashmir which is described as the 
"vibration/movement" of consciousness, a kind of throb, which is the 
essence of some sort of movement; a vibration that is characterized as 
an ecstatic, self-recurrent universal consciousness. The Unity 
Consciousness  and subtle vibration theory is called "Spanda" in the 
Trika philosophy of Kashmir - pure consciousness is the fundamental, 
basic component of the universe. Trika means three in Sanskrit and 
refers to the three states of consciousness: waking, sleeping, and 
dreaming; and a fourth state, turyia, which is beyond or transcendental 
to the three - Transcendental Knowledge or Srividya.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

Well Emily, Ann was making assumptions about me and I was giving her feedback 
about her assumptions about me...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 12:40 PM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:

 
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?


On 3/28/2014 10:07 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


For me, the answer to Barry's question would be a definite No. (In 
fact, I think it would take a bit of effort /not/ to go back to the 
mantra.)



>
Barry's analysis also assumes that at some point in your meditation 
you've stopped thinking the mantra and that your mind has wandered off 
to other thoughts. It may be that in advanced TMers all you need to do 
is think the mantra just once - one thought and then a twenty or thirty 
minute transcendence.





For me, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how 
its adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when 
you become aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- 
to decide to think about something else and then do it?"


If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, 
because that is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that 
you are not thinking the mantra, come back to it."


If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)

They are reimbursed, but the check is drawn on the First National Bank of the 
Pleiades, so good luck cashing it.  :-) 




 From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)
 


  
Are the farmers re-reimbursed for
the loss of crop from all those circles.  That would really piss
me off if those showed up in my fields one morning.
-Buck

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Neural Correlates of Consciousness?

But, but, but Xeno says that having an idea and checking it out is "not how to 
do science." In fact, he compares it to what fundamentalist Christians do. Are 
you saying he's (gasp) wrong? 

 BTW, this whole exchange, and most of Lawson's recent posts, all very much 
demonstrate "the wish to find out" rather than "the will to believe," contrary 
to Barry's repeated scornful claim. One is awfully tempted to think "the will 
to believe"--that Lawson is purely a cultist--is on Barry's side. I can't 
recall ever having seen Barry asking Lawson questions to find out what he 
thinks and why.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 All very interesting and needs much thought and further reading. I do agree 
with you about the process of science though, having an idea and then checking 
it out is all perfectly reasonable. And the more ideas that are being tested 
the sooner any subject gets understood. As long as everyone is talking to each 
other 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 The difference between anesthesia and pure consciousness is that the brain is 
still showing many of the accepted physiological correlates of being alert. 
 

 One thing I picked up from chatting with Fred and Alaric and reading their 
research on PC and CC is that there are anecdotal reports of people in CC who 
also report pure awareness, not just during sleep, but during full anesthesia. 
This is apparently not the same as those unfortunate people who retain body 
sense while under anesthesia, which is considered potentially the most 
traumatic experience known (imagine feeling your own heart transplant and being 
unable to scream).
 

 The specific physiological correlates that Fred, Alaric and others have found 
for PC is that there is lot of alpha1 EEG coherence, a sharp reduction in gamma 
EEG power, as well as abrupt reductions in heart rate, breath rate (many people 
appear to stop breathing), and a sharp rise in galvanic skin response.
 

 People do NOT remember what goes on during the PC state, except perhaps, if 
there as a stimulus (like a bell ring) to bring them back to the waking state.
 

 The current model that Fred, Alaric, etc., are using is that the process of 
transcending starts to inhibit the functoining of the part of the thalamus that 
serves as teh "gateway to the senses." Normally, sense-daya is funneled into 
the thalamus from the various sense organs, and is then redistributed to the 
relevant part of the cortex for processing. As the sense-daya is processed, it 
is distributed to more distant parts of the cortex for more processing. Some of 
that post-processed data -at every point in the post-processing- gets sent back 
to the thalamus, which merges the post-processed data with the raw sensory 
data, and teh resulting mix is sent into the relevant sensory processing areas 
of the cortex for processing. Rinse and repeat.
 

 This feedback loop system is called thalami-cortical feedback loops (or 
variations), and is thought to be responsible in some way for qualia/conscious 
experience.
 

 Different major states of consciousness affect this system differently:
 

 waking: data comes in, data comes back and is merged, rinse and repeat
 dreaming: data is not allowed in, random data comes back and is merged, rinse 
and repeat
 sleep: data is not allowed in, data is not merged, and the brain is in a very 
slow, localized idling mode.
 

 PC is thought to be similar to sleep except that the brain is remaining in an 
alert mode.
 

 

 If the above model is correct (and it might not be, as it requires some really 
expensive brain imaging to verify), then it is literally impossible for normal 
thought/qualia/mental activity to be taking place during PC.
 

 There's a little fMRI evidence that TM reduces levels of activity of the 
thalamus, but no-one with regular PC was tested in that study. There are other 
ways of testing this theory but they are even more expensive to perform. 
 

 There are ways of mathematically analyzing EEG that seem to give roughly the 
same brain imaging results as fMRI, and preliminary results wi9th TM suggest 
that they support the above model.
 

 There should be upcoming studies on far more sophisticated EEG analysis and TM 
which may or may not support the above model as well.
 

 

 By the way, the effect of various meditation practices on how the various 
traditions deal with "self" varies a great deal between TM and nearly every 
other major practice out there. Most practices result in a functional 
disconnect between self-centers of teh brain and the rest of the brain, as was 
found in this paper:
 

 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf
 Reduced functional connectivity between cortical sources in !ve meditation 
traditions detected with lagged coherence using EEG tomography 
 

 "...the globally reduced functional inte

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

On 3/28/2014 8:20 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former 
> think of this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:
 >
Let's see, how many times have we discussed this topic? If you count the 
discussions on Google Groups, it would probably be in the thousands of 
message replies. Go figure.

http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=effortless&l=fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Where did you take this essay from, Michael?

Wouldn't be from here, would it?

http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/2009/09/lies-of-tm-1-effortless-lie.html

Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:
The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM)
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed
that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma)
involve "straining".

First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state:
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.

Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!

So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that.
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.

Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention.
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute:
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.

Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Have A Nice Day :-)

a couple guys with garden rakes did it

On Fri, 3/28/14, nablusoss1008  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Have A Nice Day :-)
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 12:52 PM

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/28/2014 6:28 AM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... wrote:

 And you thought this because of all the kids you saw in the picture, hanging 
out in the "science museum"? Righteeooo, Share.  Way to cover

 The last time I was at the local science museum I saw hundreds of kids hanging 
out on a school field day. At the Apple Store, I saw people of all ages. What 
surprised me was that the kids that work there are all probably close to being 
genius level, compared to your average baby-boomer. LoL!
 
 Am I the only informant on this list that has been to an Apple Store? There's 
one online. Go figure. 
 Probably. All the other posters with the exception of Share have been to one 
though.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:sharelong60@... wrote :
 
 Richard, I thought maybe you were at one of those science museums for kids. 
There's a great one in Madison, WI. Or at least used to be...

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

On 3/28/2014 6:18 AM, Share Long wrote:
> I thought maybe you were at one of those science museums for kids.
 >
More than a museum - an Apple Store is a workshop for hands-on training.

As of February 2014, Apple has 423 retail stores in 15 countries with 
global sales of US$16 billion in merchandise in 2011, and they lead the 
United States retail market in terms of sales per unit area. The largest 
Apple Store in the world is in Amsterdam. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?

2014-03-28 Thread dhamiltony2k5

This is a lot of assumption. This guy is working really hard to make [assert] a 
point. TM as it is instructed is a pretty effortless mental practice 
comparatively. But the guy makes some good points about spiritual laxity. 
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 mjackson74 writes:

 Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of 
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:
 
 The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM) 
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed 
that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms 
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) 
involve "straining".
 
 First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.
 
 Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!
 
 So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.
 
 Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.
 
 Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.
 

 .

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

I don't have the time or inclincation to read through all of this, Michael. I 
skimmed it enough to know that I agree with some of it and disagree with some 
of it, especially the link between "laxity" and breath cessations at the end. 
I'm going to try to avoid any lengthy discussions on this thread because for me 
this is one of those "Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and threw it 
away" subjects that has been done to death here so many times that I can't get 
interested in watching its death agonies again. 

For me, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how its 
adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when you become 
aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- to decide to think 
about something else and then do it?"


If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, because that 
is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that you are not thinking 
the mantra, come back to it."

If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless. 




 From: Michael Jackson 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?
 


  
Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of 
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:

The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM) 
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed 
that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms 
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) 
involve "straining".

First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.

Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!

So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.

Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.

Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

What's really funny about this thread, Richard is that first I googled Genius 
San Antonio because I forgot that you & Rita are vacationing. I think there's a 
bar named Genius in San Antonio! And then someone on FFL made a joke about 
that. But it's really a store! It's all one big, fat spider web. That's what I 
think (-: 

On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:47 AM, Richard J. Williams  
wrote:

On 3/28/2014 6:18 AM, Share Long wrote:
> I thought maybe you were at one of those science museums for kids.
>
More than a museum - an Apple Store is a workshop for hands-on training.

As of February 2014, Apple has 423 retail stores in 15 countries with 
global sales of US$16 billion in merchandise in 2011, and they lead the 
United States retail market in terms of sales per unit area. The largest 
Apple Store in the world is in Amsterdam. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: "That's 
just how things are done around here."



 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

[FairfieldLife] Bäk tu basiks!

2014-03-28 Thread cardemaister


http://lekki.fr/ http://lekki.fr/

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?


On 3/28/2014 9:47 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
For me, the whole issue of whether TM is effortless comes down to how 
its adherents would answer the question: "Does it take effort -- when 
you become aware that you have a choice about what to think about -- 
to decide to think about something else and then do it?"

>
This analysis has a major error: if you have already become aware that 
you are not thinking the mantra, you don't have to make any decisions 
about what to think about, because you are already think it - you don't 
have to stop and then make a choice.


If they answer "Yes" to that question, then TM is not effortless, 
because that is its literal instruction: "When you become aware that 
you are not thinking the mantra, come back to it."


If that process requires effort, then TM is not effortless.

>
So, let's nitpick: How much effort, exactly, does it take to think a 
mantra? On a scale of one to ten, with totally effortless being one, I'd 
say the basic TM practice is a 1.1, with sixth level 
calculus being a ten.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

This reminds me of the following story: 

 When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, 
the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. So 
the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice. Years 
later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the 
meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought 
to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the 
spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of 
tying up a cat for meditation practice.
 
-
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 That's really how the TMO "shoot the messenger" philosophy is taught: "That's 
just how things are done around here." 

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:47 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Experiment.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)

at first they were not - but then the artists made a lot of them realize they 
could cleanup by charging admission/viewing fees to the gawking gullible public 
so they get advance permission from the farmers who make sometimes more on the 
gawkers than they would from selling the crops - the money is usually split 
between the people who make the art and the farmers

On Fri, 3/28/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have A Nice Day :-)
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 1:27 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Are the farmers re-reimbursed for
 the loss of crop from all those circles.  That would
 really piss
 me off if those showed up in my fields one morning.
 -Buck

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

Re: I try to remember the good parts of the ride. Clearly, you've moved on.  
Richard, on the other hand, hasn't.  Smile.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "emilymaenot@..." 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 6:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

   I agree that there was definitely something about Rama.  I don't really have 
a theory and come from a place of ignorance on the topic of "enlightenment" - 
having never studied, read about, or pursued such a state. However, people are 
born with different levels of sensitivity - that I believe, so I rested there 
in what I said..look at the writeup of Rick's latest interview.  

 Emily, I was there. At Ground Zero. And while I agree with you that there was 
something about Rama, I have no more theories than you do as to what that 
"something" was. 

It was what it was, and that was at times a marvelous Disneyland E-ticket ride. 
If I remember him at all (which honestly, I don't do all that much), I try to 
remember the good parts of the ride.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who 
were said to be enlightened.  A few that come to mind are Yogananda, 
Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth 
Haich.  I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that 
they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means.  But whatever it is, I 
felt they had it. 

 I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred 
Lenz.

 What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else.  That of course 
is your take away.

 Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or 
other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have 
an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, 
at least for me.

 For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to 
judge people, places, or things.  I try to look at things in a cool manner, and 
by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights.  I think that may be 
something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books.  I'm a little tired so 
I can't remember accurately.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Re:  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable 
level of consciousnesses. 

 I have no idea what that means, honestly"a remarkable level of 
consciousness."  My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone 
has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way.  
Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for 
example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that 
certain way and able to recognize it.  But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey 
to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. andit didn't 
go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their 
"teacher" and "leader." 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Sure, I understand.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved 
a remarkable level of consciousnesses.  For me it is based on the transcripts 
of two interviews he gave.  Maybe going back, I might feel differently.  But 
I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people.  
Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left 
with after reading the interviews. 

 His practice of different siddhis? No idea  But as you say, they were observed 
by many people.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nope, I can't.  But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early 
experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it 
all.  Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room 
here using the phrase "altered perception."  Many things can create an 
experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Why Richard, whydo you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz?  Why oh why oh 
why?  Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs 
took over.  He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it.   
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 I have no interest in "engaging" with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. 
You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the 
need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk 
about?

 The only person here "dodging and weaving" and "hiding" is you. I think you're 
doing so because you don't want to reveal that

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Neural Correlates of Consciousness?

All very interesting and needs much thought and further reading. I do agree 
with you about the process of science though, having an idea and then checking 
it out is all perfectly reasonable. And the more ideas that are being tested 
the sooner any subject gets understood. As long as everyone is talking to each 
other 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 The difference between anesthesia and pure consciousness is that the brain is 
still showing many of the accepted physiological correlates of being alert. 
 

 One thing I picked up from chatting with Fred and Alaric and reading their 
research on PC and CC is that there are anecdotal reports of people in CC who 
also report pure awareness, not just during sleep, but during full anesthesia. 
This is apparently not the same as those unfortunate people who retain body 
sense while under anesthesia, which is considered potentially the most 
traumatic experience known (imagine feeling your own heart transplant and being 
unable to scream).
 

 The specific physiological correlates that Fred, Alaric and others have found 
for PC is that there is lot of alpha1 EEG coherence, a sharp reduction in gamma 
EEG power, as well as abrupt reductions in heart rate, breath rate (many people 
appear to stop breathing), and a sharp rise in galvanic skin response.
 

 People do NOT remember what goes on during the PC state, except perhaps, if 
there as a stimulus (like a bell ring) to bring them back to the waking state.
 

 The current model that Fred, Alaric, etc., are using is that the process of 
transcending starts to inhibit the functoining of the part of the thalamus that 
serves as teh "gateway to the senses." Normally, sense-daya is funneled into 
the thalamus from the various sense organs, and is then redistributed to the 
relevant part of the cortex for processing. As the sense-daya is processed, it 
is distributed to more distant parts of the cortex for more processing. Some of 
that post-processed data -at every point in the post-processing- gets sent back 
to the thalamus, which merges the post-processed data with the raw sensory 
data, and teh resulting mix is sent into the relevant sensory processing areas 
of the cortex for processing. Rinse and repeat.
 

 This feedback loop system is called thalami-cortical feedback loops (or 
variations), and is thought to be responsible in some way for qualia/conscious 
experience.
 

 Different major states of consciousness affect this system differently:
 

 waking: data comes in, data comes back and is merged, rinse and repeat
 dreaming: data is not allowed in, random data comes back and is merged, rinse 
and repeat
 sleep: data is not allowed in, data is not merged, and the brain is in a very 
slow, localized idling mode.
 

 PC is thought to be similar to sleep except that the brain is remaining in an 
alert mode.
 

 

 If the above model is correct (and it might not be, as it requires some really 
expensive brain imaging to verify), then it is literally impossible for normal 
thought/qualia/mental activity to be taking place during PC.
 

 There's a little fMRI evidence that TM reduces levels of activity of the 
thalamus, but no-one with regular PC was tested in that study. There are other 
ways of testing this theory but they are even more expensive to perform. 
 

 There are ways of mathematically analyzing EEG that seem to give roughly the 
same brain imaging results as fMRI, and preliminary results wi9th TM suggest 
that they support the above model.
 

 There should be upcoming studies on far more sophisticated EEG analysis and TM 
which may or may not support the above model as well.
 

 

 By the way, the effect of various meditation practices on how the various 
traditions deal with "self" varies a great deal between TM and nearly every 
other major practice out there. Most practices result in a functional 
disconnect between self-centers of teh brain and the rest of the brain, as was 
found in this paper:
 

 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf
 Reduced functional connectivity between cortical sources in !ve meditation 
traditions detected with lagged coherence using EEG tomography 
 

 "...the globally reduced functional interdependence between brain regions in 
meditation sug- gests that interaction between the self process functions is 
minimized, and that constraints on the self process by other processes are 
minimized, thereby leading to the subjective experience of non-involvement, 
detachment and letting go, as well as of all-oneness and dissolution of ego 
borders during meditation."
 

 The same group or researchers are redoing that study using TM. I'm expecting 
it to find exactly the opposite effects for TM on virtually every major aspect 
of the study.
 

 BTW, what you are claiming about how science works is not usually how science 
works.
 

 S

[FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

Would like to know that all the TM teachers, both current and former think of 
this treatise on TM and its effortlessness:

The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental Meditation (TM) 
that I'd like to talk about is the idea of effortlessness. It is often claimed 
that TM is "effortless" and that this somehow makes it superior to other forms 
of meditation that are not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) 
involve "straining".

First of all, it's important to understand what effort and effortlessness mean 
within the context of traditional meditation. At the end of any path, the goal 
of meditation, meditating on some thing (a mantra, the breath, etc.) is 
accomplished and after that point one just merely has the intention to go into 
meditative absorption (or samādhi) and one can effortlessly enter that state: 
1) when one desires to do so and 2) for as long as one wishes to. Before this 
point is attained one will need "props" or "supports" (Skt.: ālambana), as the 
sage Patanjali calls them, to dualistically interact with in order to fabricate 
briefer, earlier levels of meditative attention.

Until one reaches the point of being able to enter samādhi at will and for 
whatever duration, one has not reached the point of meditation being 
effortless. In fact, if one is still relying on some technique or method (like 
TM) one is not at the level of true effortlessness. Actually the Sanskrit word 
Patanjali uses for meditation technique, prayatna, means "with effort"!

So the claim that Transcendental Meditation is somehow superior to other forms 
of meditation because it is effortless is a lie. And a prominent one at that. 
The TM Org has consistently used this lie to imply that it's form of meditation 
is superior to all other forms of meditation out there. The honest truth is, TM 
is dualistic form of meditation, not a nondual form of meditation and therefore 
it must rely on some sort of prop, all of which require some modicum of effort.

Mastering meditation means mastering the fine art of balancing ones attention. 
If meditation, esp. in the early stages becomes too lax, one simply falls 
asleep, a common defect in TM. The Buddha described this as like tuning a lute: 
you don't want the strings too tight or they'll break, nor do you want them too 
loose. You want them "just right". When a culture of faux-effortlessness 
becomes your dogma, there's always the danger (and I've seen this in many 
TMers) one will try to cultivate 'effortlessness' and fall into being too lax.

Both Hindu and Buddhist meditation masters warn on the dangers of loosing the 
correct balance and simply becoming lazy. If one is trained to fear balancing 
one's attention (or the fear becomes institutionalized), there's even more of a 
danger of falling into laxity. Yogis (real yogis that is) describe this laxity 
as distinct from lethargy. Laxity is actually considered an obscuration to 
realization of the goals of meditation. And actually subtle laxity is 
considered the worst kind of slackness. One knows one is falling into subtle 
laxity when you have uncultivated pauses in the breath, a known (and believe it 
or not actually heralded) effect during Transcendental Meditation. What yogic 
wisdom tells us is this type of obscuration guarantees we will be unable to 
truly obtain a formless (and thus truly effortless) absorption.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?

That was my question, BTW, and I supplied the same URL. It's always good to 
credit your sources. 

 

 From raght here 
 
http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/2009/09/lies-of-tm-1-effortless-lie.html
 
http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/2009/09/lies-of-tm-1-effortless-lie.html
 
 On Fri, 3/28/14, Richard J. Williams mailto:punditster@...> 
wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: IS TM and Effortless Practice?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, March 28, 2014, 2:12 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On 3/28/2014
 8:41 AM,
 authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@...
 wrote:
 
 
 Where
 did you take this essay from,
 Michael?
 >
 
 From Honest John?

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

That was pretty funny Ann, particularly since I had just mentioned Madison, WI. 
Go figure! I do go to Annapolis area twice a year to visit family. But admit 
that Apple store is not high on our list of things to do. Go figure again!

On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:37 AM, "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Richard, I thought maybe you were at one of those science museums for kids. 
There's a great one in Madison, WI. Or at least used to be...

Share, you need to get out more. If you've never been to an Apple Store you've 
been in FF much too long.

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:32 PM, Pundit Sir  wrote:

We went to the Apple Store at Mall of the Americas to get the battery replaced 
in Rita's iPod. While we were there one of the geniuses showed us the Mac Pro 
with the dual workstation-class GPUs. Rita has an A.D. in Computer Graphics and 
a B.A. in Communication Arts and she wants to use Final Cut Pro software to 
edit her movie.

Every new Mac Pro comes standard with dual AMD FirePro workstation-class GPUs, 
each with up to 6GB of dedicated VRAM and 2048 stream processors, providing up 
to 264GB/s of memory bandwidth and up to 3.5 teraflops. That’s enough power to 
edit full-resolution 4K video while simultaneously rendering effects in the 
background — and still connect up to three 4K displays.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Share Long  wrote:
>
> 
>>What kind of place is it, Richard?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:07 PM, Pundit Sir  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>Today, we went to this place:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC


On 3/28/2014 8:21 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:

Ever seen Lenz on videotape?

>
Yes, but I have never seen a videotape of Lenz levitating.

Apparently this is because there is a certain Woo Woo that can be 
employed making the images disappear off the tape. Several of the Lenz 
talks about meditation seem pretty reasonable and I agree with a lot he 
says. What is strange is that Barry seems to refute almost everything 
Lenz had ever said and taught, EXCEPT for the part about the levitation, 
which he claimed he witnessed on hundreds of occasions, but which nobody 
else ever mentions. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] IS TM and Effortless Practice?

On 3/28/2014 8:20 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> The first of these "lies" or deceptions about Transcendental 
> Meditation (TM) that I'd like to talk about is the idea of 
> effortlessness. It is often claimed that TM is "effortless" and that 
> this somehow makes it superior to other forms of meditation that are 
> not effortless and often (according to TM Org dogma) involve "straining".
 >
So, let's review what we know:

According to MMY, the practice of basic TM is "effortless", or as near 
effortless as anything can be. TM practice is based on thinking - 
there's probably not a person on the planet that can't think. It's just 
natural to think thoughts, without even trying - thoughts just come. In 
TM practice you sit down and close your eyes and think the mantra, just 
like any other thought. It's almost effortless, as anyone who has 
learned TM can tell you.

In fact, it's so simple that you have to almost invent things to object 
to - like to nitpick about TM being effortless. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

I understand what you are saying Share, but you still "interpreted" her 
"figuring" as "right and wrong."  Are you experiencing cognitive dissonance 
right now - in the sense that your behavior is not in line with your beliefs?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...
 

 
 
 On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymaenot@..."  wrote:
 
   But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] What We Did Today

But Emily I was replying to what Ann wrote which was all about figuring...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:59 AM, "emilymae...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
But Share, we are talking about what you wrote, not what Ann wrote.  You are 
slipping into your shadow side again. :)  Stand up Sweetie...you wrote it.

[FairfieldLife] Harri Aalto: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 03/28/2014

2014-03-28 Thread Rick Archer

 


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published 03/28/2014


223. Harri Aalto 

 

Mar 27, 2014 07:32 am | Rick

My family moved to Canada from Finland when I was five. I clearly remember an 
experience that started developing from this time, where I could see an 
unmoving sphere, or bubble, of comfortable light, or consciousness, that 
surrounded my body. … Continue reading  

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Have A Nice Day :-)

Beautiful, Nablusoss, I love this one, have seen it before...





On Friday, March 28, 2014 7:52 AM, nablusoss1008  
wrote:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Have A Nice Day :-)