Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : yes, salyavin, I would miss you and your delightful sense of humor. So there! So why not pop round Rick's house and tell him that Buck is ruining his website by deleting all the best people? It's true that you don't have to have been in Fairfield to have an opinion about TM'ers. But for me it makes the opinion more valid, if it's based on in person observation. Otherwise and this often is the case on FFL, the anti TM responses seem like knee jerk reactions rooted in the past. I would say "carefully considered" rather than "knee jerk" I am still in touch with the org in this country and it hasn't changed much though it's interesting to see how they coped without the reesh. Some changes are good, if shallow, I always knew the internet would be trouble for them because they can't lie to control people when the people can just get on the net and find out what's going on. Another reason to ban censorship of FFL! I think all humans have a vested interest in their conclusions and interpretations. Scientists we're often not! Still owe you a response...sweet dreams (-: From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Consider that I keep getting re-incarnated as the same thing. But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Was that your main point? I thought it was that you'd miss me. Boo! I don't think you need have to have been in Fairfield at all to have an opinion about the TMO or TM as it all occurs in the head. And no matter how good a time you're having it doesn't change what I've seen and done. I'd like to know more about FF but no one ever posts anything because it gets analysed by people like me who might have a different viewpoint to what you've decided you want to hear. The recent "vedic" psychiatry debate springs to mind. I had some good questions about it for BUck but he didn't respond. We have the net to keep us informed of how the inner workings of the TMO are going you see so we don't have to visit FF, the changes to the websites tell us a lot.What people post here tells us a lot. The thing is we all have a vested interest in our spiritual alma mater and how it turns out. Trouble is somebody round here doesn't want us to take part because we are "apostates". It's a silly term from a silly man who has ended up with too much power which he wields without considering the long term ramifications of his actions for the place. But then he doesn't take part himself so why should he care? Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-: I finally looked up TTFN... From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Blimey! I hope you're not leaving us - or about to get the order of the boot. I thought I would be booted - it isn't like I don't try - Buck's cheap excuse to kick off everyone he doesn't like makes me livid. That Rick has let a True Believer loose on this place is a travesty of what it was intended to be about. Especially as he's behaving exactly like the leaders of the TMO that he's had so much disgust of over the years. It's like living in Stalin's Russia, every time I wake up I'm not sure which of the politburo will have survived the night. But rest assured, he won't twist the guidelines to get rid of anyone that he doesn't consider an "apostate". Losing Xeno's careful writing and knowledge is another big loss to this place, and MJ's companionship was great joy too, anyone who brings so much of their life here is worth keeping but the ones left aren't like that. Buck seeks uniform blandness. I've praised your writing style twice in recent weeks so I won't repeat myself. I've found your contributions some of the most thought-provoking on FFL. Heretics are essential for an orthodoxy to gain self-understanding and to learn to become self-critical. Are you a member of any other groups, Yahoo or not? Thanks, but no I only post here. This place is - was - good because we aren't limited to just talking about beliefs but where the beliefs came from and even why they mean so much to some and not others. The neuro-psychology of cult mechanics. And this is the sort of thing that the TB's don't like. Questioning of cherished beliefs is a tricky subject but luckily, TM claims to be a science so it is therefore open to criticism. That's my excuse anyway. Like you, I can't understand while FFL members get so upset by robust, critical posts. I'm happy to meet true believers defending MMY and the TMO and also happy to meet those who have long since fallen out of love with the Movement. I read what both parties have to say and make my own mind up in each case. So sometimes debates become heated and insults get exchanged . . . but why would anyone allow a little argy-bargy to spoil their day? It's beyond me. Perhaps because the TMO is a dictatorship and people aren't used to having avoice? Or maybe it's because the TMO is a fundamentalist organisation and it comes as a shock to the faithful that people who have been exposed to it's wondrous teachings disagree with it. It really does. Try lviing in a TM centre and telling them that you don't believe that Maharishi had absolute knowledge of everything. They stare at you slack-jawed like it's the most astounding thing they ever heard. Before starting to tell you why you are wrong. Like you say there is now a real danger that this site could become terminally boring if the more colourful members drift away. We'll just have to start another. But I'll be damned if I'm going to leave. If Buck wants to can me for expressing an opinion he's welcome to. How depressing that Rick has let the place slide to such an extent.But as he obviously doesn't care about the place any more, we should buy the home page off him before we go. They clearly don't agree with its message of free thought any more ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Curtis brother, as usual you have hit nail squarely on the head here. I've never had the time to contribute anywhere remotely as much as you and so many others here have. But these past few weeks I've observed with horror what Rick has apparently allowed to happen to what was once a vibrant place for (often) intelligent debate among those who had committed various parts of their lives to what we called "the Movement". I honestly cannot recall a single post of Doug/Buck that made me excited and enthused for having read it. However he has made it his feelings for the "apostates" of the TM movement crystal clear. His word, not mine btw. The weird thing is, Doug/Buck isn't even clever enough to cover his tracks, or try to engage in any kind of intelligent debate with this crusade against the "fallen". No, he just repeats his mind numbingly dumb mantra about Yahoo Group Guidelines. He clearly can't even process my bit of snark about Poland being his next move fer chrissakes! This is precisely what happens when the captive becomes the captor. He tells you to "quietly" read the guidelines Curtis. Really? Why not just say "there, there Curtis, are we experiencing some roughness of awareness today'? This shit is so engrained in Doug he can't even recognize the blatant condescension! And he sure as hell can't fathom the hypocrisy that so many are pointing out. Doug is making a perfect case for what happens as a result of a near lifetime spent in cult think. How do I know? Because like you and so many others Curtis, I've been there. I've been Doug. (Well not exactly, I honestly don't think I ever lost the ability to laugh at myself or the movement. As I've recounted before here I did make my tie "float" in one of the first attempts at group "flying". We were in chairs. 'Tis true!") I keep thinking that Rick will put a stop to what is quite clearly the unraveling of FFL. Just look at the post counts for proof! The place has become dull, aside from those posting about the takeover. Who wants to read about the latest art walk or local flower show? I don't. Or maybe, as some have speculated, Rick is just letting Doug hang himself. Or maybe he feels that FFL has ceased being relevant so he put Doug in charge to make a rapid death certain. I really don't know but I for one will miss the lively discourse that used to take place here. I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen Me: "Fallen?" Condescending much? You got the power to slip them the mickey and you did it. Nobody "fell" anywhere you just took advantage of the situation to suit your personal whim. They insulted you and called you out so you got them back. You have a real taste for this power now don't you? Buck: had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Me: This is completely bogus, we had no problem with yahoo, you made this up for your power grab so you could impose your personal taste on the site which you begged Rick to let you do for YEARS. Buck:Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. Me: "quietly?" Do you know that you are speaking to adults here? It doesn't matter how quietly we all re-read them none of it means what you are distorting them into. They are purposely vague guidelines, open to personal interpretation and most importantly, never enforced on this group until you hide behind them to allow you to impose your personal views on other adults who you condescend to by talking to us as if we are children who need your correction. You have never shown up here in an authentic way or generated a full paragraph of content that was worth my time to read. People who have "Fallen" and an instruction to re-read irrelevant unenforced guidelines "quietly" are two words that reveal you here. I am very familiar with this mentality from my time in the movement and you are not fooling me with this routine. -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civili
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Me: Thanks for pointing that out to me. Apologies to Buck for misunderstanding his intention for that word choice. I mistook it for his usual old timey fey word choice so it seemed normal. I'll back you up on the distaste for the "read quietly" part. It does sound like we're about to be offered Oreos and milk before we curl up on our blankies. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen Me: "Fallen?" Condescending much? You got the power to slip them the mickey and you did it. Nobody "fell" anywhere you just took advantage of the situation to suit your personal whim. They insulted you and called you out so you got them back. You have a real taste for this power now don't you? Buck: had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Me: This is completely bogus, we had no problem with yahoo, you made this up for your power grab so you could impose your personal taste on the site which you begged Rick to let you do for YEARS. Buck:Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. Me: "quietly?" Do you know that you are speaking to adults here? It doesn't matter how quietly we all re-read them none of it means what you are distorting them into. They are purposely vague guidelines, open to personal interpretation and most importantly, never enforced on this group until you hide behind them to allow you to impose your personal views on other adults who you condescend to by talking to us as if we are children who need your correction. You have never shown up here in an authentic way or generated a full paragraph of content that was worth my time to read. People who have "Fallen" and an instruction to re-read irrelevant unenforced guidelines "quietly" are two words that reveal you here. I am very familiar with this mentality from my time in the movement and you are not fooling me with this routine. Hey Curtis, have a look at Salyavin's posting of that poem. Looks like he is talking about his fallen comrades alright. In case you missed it here it is again. Sounded pretty dramatic to me at the time as well. "With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children, England mourns for her dead across the sea. Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit, Fallen in the cause of the free. Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres. There is music in the midst of desolation And a glory that shines upon our tears. They went with songs to the battle, they were young, Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow. They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted, They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. They mingle not with their laughing comrades again; They sit no more at familiar tables of home; They have no lot in our labour of the day-time; They sleep beyond England's foam. But where our desires are and our hopes profound, Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight, To the innermost heart of their own land they are known As the stars are known to the Night; As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust, Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain, As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness, To the end, to the end, they remain. :-) (Poem on loan from Robert Lawrence Binyon) -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy o
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? I'll have a quick stab at this one: Generally I'd say that SCI is wrong because it isn't an accurate description of reality. You may think that doesn't matter and that it's the way you want to look at things and that's fine, but the word science means there must be some sort of process going on to work out whether the set of beliefs you are dealing with can actually explain things or whether they are leading you astray. Evolution is one thing that SCI gets completely wrong, but like a lot of Marshy's teachings it relies on a vague recognition of terms that you perhaps never fully understood. Darwin's great gift to knowledge is that small things can become more complex without any help. There is no creative intelligence behind it. No intelligence at all and the creativity is actually mass murder, we just don't see the vast die off of the inadequate forms that got de-selected. So from our vantage point it looks like things get gradually more perfect and thus conform to the idea that there is a goal for living things but there really isn't. This is a rule of thumb and it's destroyed by further inquiry, and it's the sort of inquiry you can't just work out by looking at something, it took many years for Darwin to do the necessary experiments and many more careers working out the details. Evolution is now a very well sussed theory and nothing Marshy had to say adds or improves it in any way. In fact it only detracts and serves to confuse the unwary. Physics, don't get me started. Not tonight anyway. The main thing wrong here is the same as with everything else, the assumption of a creative intelligence. This is death to science, you can't just blame everything on some unknowable controlling force that underlies reality, that isn't what unified field theories are for, the idea is to explain and it's been heading toward a simplicity - a few forces and electromagnetism - not an underlying complexity. As soon as you start adding things like that you get religious. If complexity came first then where did that come from? A creator must be more complex than the things it creates. You see how it hasn't explained anything? I guess my biggest problem with it is that I don't believe we can trust our experiences in meditation to be revealing any useful information about the way the world works. I've been in there all the way to the hum of the ved and I think it's a mistake to assume I've seen any sort of fundamental physical field. It's all just buzzing stuff in our heads. Nice post,definitely worth the read.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Hah! I'd intended my praise for Sal! (He seems particularly downcast by today's developments.) Me: That is hilarious since I re-read your post and now can understand why I thought it was for me. I guess I was paranoid since I had just posted a critical post to our trigger happy moderator. Or maybe I am a legend in my own mind and just assume that unnamed compliments MUST be mine! Thanks for your gracious response and I will try not to step in front of your compliments meant for another in the future. But as I enjoy your posts (and prose) also please share the honours between you. As there seem to be a fair few of us who'd prefer a more take-no-prisoners approach to an internet group maybe we should all start a brand-new TM-related site - the only rule being that there are no rules. Re "my relationship here is through Rick": can't you have a quiet word with him to pour oil on troubled waters while FFL still has some members left? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Blimey! I hope you're not leaving us - or about to get the order of the boot. I've praised your writing style twice in recent weeks so I won't repeat myself. I've found your contributions some of the most thought-provoking on FFL. Heretics are essential for an orthodoxy to gain self-understanding and to learn to become self-critical. Me: Right back at you brother. I really appreciate your contributions here and thanks for the high five for my own writing. I don't believe that anything I have written here would be viewed by Rick as grounds for getting booted. Buck may try, but my relationship here is through Rick, and I trust him not to let that happen as long as I don't provide the rope needed to swing. S: Are you a member of any other groups, Yahoo or not? Me: I only post here. S: Like you, I can't understand while FFL members get so upset by robust, critical posts. I'm happy to meet true believers defending MMY and the TMO and also happy to meet those who have long since fallen out of love with the Movement. I read what both parties have to say and make my own mind up in each case. So sometimes debates become heated and insults get exchanged . . . but why would anyone allow a little argy-bargy to spoil their day? Me: It is the patronizing legacy of the movement that causes people to try to treat other adults as if they know better about how they should express themselves, I believe. It comes from a hierarchical model that encourages people to believe that their internal frame of mind is superior. They believe that they don't have to be judged by the actual content and meaning of their words, as adults do when they discuss ideas on their own merit. It is the intellectually lazy way and was ubiquitous in the movement. And you know what? I bought into it too till I was 31 and figured out how hollow it was. So I get where he is coming from but I do not respect it. S: Like you say there is now a real danger that this site could become terminally boring if the more colourful members drift away. Me: I believe it has already had a chilling affect on posting creativity. Content providers should not be controlled by someone whose intellectual contributions can be summed up as a finger wagging "tisk tisk." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Me: Thanks for pointing that out to me. Apologies to Buck for misunderstanding his intention for that word choice. I mistook it for his usual old timey fey word choice so it seemed normal. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen Me: "Fallen?" Condescending much? You got the power to slip them the mickey and you did it. Nobody "fell" anywhere you just took advantage of the situation to suit your personal whim. They insulted you and called you out so you got them back. You have a real taste for this power now don't you? Buck: had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Me: This is completely bogus, we had no problem with yahoo, you made this up for your power grab so you could impose your personal taste on the site which you begged Rick to let you do for YEARS. Buck:Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. Me: "quietly?" Do you know that you are speaking to adults here? It doesn't matter how quietly we all re-read them none of it means what you are distorting them into. They are purposely vague guidelines, open to personal interpretation and most importantly, never enforced on this group until you hide behind them to allow you to impose your personal views on other adults who you condescend to by talking to us as if we are children who need your correction. You have never shown up here in an authentic way or generated a full paragraph of content that was worth my time to read. People who have "Fallen" and an instruction to re-read irrelevant unenforced guidelines "quietly" are two words that reveal you here. I am very familiar with this mentality from my time in the movement and you are not fooling me with this routine. Hey Curtis, have a look at Salyavin's posting of that poem. Looks like he is talking about his fallen comrades alright. In case you missed it here it is again. Sounded pretty dramatic to me at the time as well. "With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children, England mourns for her dead across the sea. Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit, Fallen in the cause of the free. Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres. There is music in the midst of desolation And a glory that shines upon our tears. They went with songs to the battle, they were young, Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow. They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted, They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. They mingle not with their laughing comrades again; They sit no more at familiar tables of home; They have no lot in our labour of the day-time; They sleep beyond England's foam. But where our desires are and our hopes profound, Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight, To the innermost heart of their own land they are known As the stars are known to the Night; As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust, Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain, As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness, To the end, to the end, they remain. :-) (Poem on loan from Robert Lawrence Binyon) -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Share, I think "namaste" is one of the loveliest of all greetings, but I do cringe at Jai Guru Dev. I got JGD'ed by someone just half an hour ago and it felt strange, like a ghost from the past. I remember people saying that as a kind or form of thankfulness or sometimes greeting (we're going back a long way for me here, like 30 years. I haven't been JGD'ed for a verr long time, maybe I'd like it after all this time but I doubt it). Perhaps it is a habit for some but it has probably been cheapened in some way over time but, ultimately, I think it means different things for different people under various contexts. I am not sure I have ever actually said those words. I'll try it now, quietly, here where I am sitting but I can honestly say it is unlikely I will ever utter the words out loud or that anyone I currently know will say it to me. That saves me the embarrassment of laughing in their face, fortunately. Most don't appreciate that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Hi Curtis, Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! A sense of humor is very useful in times of trouble. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen Me: "Fallen?" Condescending much? You got the power to slip them the mickey and you did it. Nobody "fell" anywhere you just took advantage of the situation to suit your personal whim. They insulted you and called you out so you got them back. You have a real taste for this power now don't you? Buck: had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Me: This is completely bogus, we had no problem with yahoo, you made this up for your power grab so you could impose your personal taste on the site which you begged Rick to let you do for YEARS. Buck:Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. Me: "quietly?" Do you know that you are speaking to adults here? It doesn't matter how quietly we all re-read them none of it means what you are distorting them into. They are purposely vague guidelines, open to personal interpretation and most importantly, never enforced on this group until you hide behind them to allow you to impose your personal views on other adults who you condescend to by talking to us as if we are children who need your correction. You have never shown up here in an authentic way or generated a full paragraph of content that was worth my time to read. People who have "Fallen" and an instruction to re-read irrelevant unenforced guidelines "quietly" are two words that reveal you here. I am very familiar with this mentality from my time in the movement and you are not fooling me with this routine. Hey Curtis, have a look at Salyavin's posting of that poem. Looks like he is talking about his fallen comrades alright. In case you missed it here it is again. Sounded pretty dramatic to me at the time as well. "With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children, England mourns for her dead across the sea. Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit, Fallen in the cause of the free. Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres. There is music in the midst of desolation And a glory that shines upon our tears. They went with songs to the battle, they were young, Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow. They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted, They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. They mingle not with their laughing comrades again; They sit no more at familiar tables of home; They have no lot in our labour of the day-time; They sleep beyond England's foam. But where our desires are and our hopes profound, Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight, To the innermost heart of their own land they are known As the stars are known to the Night; As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust, Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain, As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness, To the end, to the end, they remain. :-) (Poem on loan from Robert Lawrence Binyon) -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Hah! I'd intended my praise for Sal! (He seems particularly downcast by today's developments.) But as I enjoy your posts (and prose) also please share the honours between you. As there seem to be a fair few of us who'd prefer a more take-no-prisoners approach to an internet group maybe we should all start a brand-new TM-related site - the only rule being that there are no rules. Re "my relationship here is through Rick": can't you have a quiet word with him to pour oil on troubled waters while FFL still has some members left? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Blimey! I hope you're not leaving us - or about to get the order of the boot. I've praised your writing style twice in recent weeks so I won't repeat myself. I've found your contributions some of the most thought-provoking on FFL. Heretics are essential for an orthodoxy to gain self-understanding and to learn to become self-critical. Me: Right back at you brother. I really appreciate your contributions here and thanks for the high five for my own writing. I don't believe that anything I have written here would be viewed by Rick as grounds for getting booted. Buck may try, but my relationship here is through Rick, and I trust him not to let that happen as long as I don't provide the rope needed to swing. S: Are you a member of any other groups, Yahoo or not? Me: I only post here. S: Like you, I can't understand while FFL members get so upset by robust, critical posts. I'm happy to meet true believers defending MMY and the TMO and also happy to meet those who have long since fallen out of love with the Movement. I read what both parties have to say and make my own mind up in each case. So sometimes debates become heated and insults get exchanged . . . but why would anyone allow a little argy-bargy to spoil their day? Me: It is the patronizing legacy of the movement that causes people to try to treat other adults as if they know better about how they should express themselves, I believe. It comes from a hierarchical model that encourages people to believe that their internal frame of mind is superior. They believe that they don't have to be judged by the actual content and meaning of their words, as adults do when they discuss ideas on their own merit. It is the intellectually lazy way and was ubiquitous in the movement. And you know what? I bought into it too till I was 31 and figured out how hollow it was. So I get where he is coming from but I do not respect it. S: Like you say there is now a real danger that this site could become terminally boring if the more colourful members drift away. Me: I believe it has already had a chilling affect on posting creativity. Content providers should not be controlled by someone whose intellectual contributions can be summed up as a finger wagging "tisk tisk." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Blimey! I hope you're not leaving us - or about to get the order of the boot. I've praised your writing style twice in recent weeks so I won't repeat myself. I've found your contributions some of the most thought-provoking on FFL. Heretics are essential for an orthodoxy to gain self-understanding and to learn to become self-critical. Me: Right back at you brother. I really appreciate your contributions here and thanks for the high five for my own writing. I don't believe that anything I have written here would be viewed by Rick as grounds for getting booted. Buck may try, but my relationship here is through Rick, and I trust him not to let that happen as long as I don't provide the rope needed to swing. S: Are you a member of any other groups, Yahoo or not? Me: I only post here. S: Like you, I can't understand while FFL members get so upset by robust, critical posts. I'm happy to meet true believers defending MMY and the TMO and also happy to meet those who have long since fallen out of love with the Movement. I read what both parties have to say and make my own mind up in each case. So sometimes debates become heated and insults get exchanged . . . but why would anyone allow a little argy-bargy to spoil their day? Me: It is the patronizing legacy of the movement that causes people to try to treat other adults as if they know better about how they should express themselves, I believe. It comes from a hierarchical model that encourages people to believe that their internal frame of mind is superior. They believe that they don't have to be judged by the actual content and meaning of their words, as adults do when they discuss ideas on their own merit. It is the intellectually lazy way and was ubiquitous in the movement. And you know what? I bought into it too till I was 31 and figured out how hollow it was. So I get where he is coming from but I do not respect it. S: Like you say there is now a real danger that this site could become terminally boring if the more colourful members drift away. Me: I believe it has already had a chilling affect on posting creativity. Content providers should not be controlled by someone whose intellectual contributions can be summed up as a finger wagging "tisk tisk." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Blimey! I hope you're not leaving us - or about to get the order of the boot. I've praised your writing style twice in recent weeks so I won't repeat myself. I've found your contributions some of the most thought-provoking on FFL. Heretics are essential for an orthodoxy to gain self-understanding and to learn to become self-critical. Are you a member of any other groups, Yahoo or not? Like you, I can't understand while FFL members get so upset by robust, critical posts. I'm happy to meet true believers defending MMY and the TMO and also happy to meet those who have long since fallen out of love with the Movement. I read what both parties have to say and make my own mind up in each case. So sometimes debates become heated and insults get exchanged . . . but why would anyone allow a little argy-bargy to spoil their day? Like you say there is now a real danger that this site could become terminally boring if the more colourful members drift away. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen Me: "Fallen?" Condescending much? You got the power to slip them the mickey and you did it. Nobody "fell" anywhere you just took advantage of the situation to suit your personal whim. They insulted you and called you out so you got them back. You have a real taste for this power now don't you? Buck: had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Me: This is completely bogus, we had no problem with yahoo, you made this up for your power grab so you could impose your personal taste on the site which you begged Rick to let you do for YEARS. Buck:Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. Me: "quietly?" Do you know that you are speaking to adults here? It doesn't matter how quietly we all re-read them none of it means what you are distorting them into. They are purposely vague guidelines, open to personal interpretation and most importantly, never enforced on this group until you hide behind them to allow you to impose your personal views on other adults who you condescend to by talking to us as if we are children who need your correction. You have never shown up here in an authentic way or generated a full paragraph of content that was worth my time to read. People who have "Fallen" and an instruction to re-read irrelevant unenforced guidelines "quietly" are two words that reveal you here. I am very familiar with this mentality from my time in the movement and you are not fooling me with this routine. -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Good that you found an avenue to help you deprogram. I think most of us deprogrammed a while ago, at least the parts that we found incongruous. And actually, I can understand, how initially you might find Barry helpful in this regard as his agenda* is to uncover and expose what he sees as cult behavior. But, in order to remain on Barry's good terms you will find that you must adhere to some pretty strict guidelines, and really, as I've said before, adhere to his inflexible, two post rule. And you will have to put up with many subtle (and not so subtle) misrepresentations, and a generally mean personality. It may work for a while, but after the fifth, sixth, or twelfth year, it really starts to stink. That's why, when he left, there was a consensus that a waft of fresh air came in. Now, unfortunately, we see the expulsion of two other members, one of whom, I liked very much, in spite of our many disagreements, and another one who could best be described as Barry's sidekick. But, at least he, was pretty straightforward in his repetitive tirades. He wasn't into demeaning other members, just his usual suspects. * agenda, as I define it, is the intention to twist, or distort an otherwise honest interaction to achieve some pre-ordained conclusion. (-: What I learnt from you and Barry and others was that you can break free from the organisation if you want. This place was my exit counsellor and place to discuss cults and religions and how we got involved in any of them and why. It was cathartic and illuminating and entertaining all at once. This is what we get from different perspectives, different viewpoints. It used to be a good halfway house between cult and sanity and that's a good thing and you guys helped with that a lot. FFL was a good place to vent and get things in perspective and talk to people who were there and who know what it's all about. Buck doesn't want that. He's had an agenda to get rid of us "apostates" for a long time and it's sad that Rick let him. When one man has the right to mould the place in his own image then we all stop learning anything new, it all just sinks to some bland middle ground. Sure it's fun to talk about what movies we've seen and museums we've been to but the most instructive people have gone and this place has lost it's magic because of that. But at least you're still here to offer reasoned debate to Buck, not that he'll engage with you. I'll just get quoted a few lines of the guidelines and that will be that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away? I'm waiting to get deleted. But Captain Unity hasn't got up yet so I can play around a bit longer. Come on Buck, what's keepin' ya! There's an "apostate" who needs your attention to stop him telling the truth about things. If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146824.html?src=t_freedom_of_speech George Washington http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
yes, salyavin, I would miss you and your delightful sense of humor. So there! It's true that you don't have to have been in Fairfield to have an opinion about TM'ers. But for me it makes the opinion more valid, if it's based on in person observation. Otherwise and this often is the case on FFL, the anti TM responses seem like knee jerk reactions rooted in the past. I think all humans have a vested interest in their conclusions and interpretations. Scientists we're often not! Still owe you a response...sweet dreams (-: From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Consider that I keep getting re-incarnated as the same thing. But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Was that your main point? I thought it was that you'd miss me. Boo! I don't think you need have to have been in Fairfield at all to have an opinion about the TMO or TM as it all occurs in the head. And no matter how good a time you're having it doesn't change what I've seen and done. I'd like to know more about FF but no one ever posts anything because it gets analysed by people like me who might have a different viewpoint to what you've decided you want to hear. The recent "vedic" psychiatry debate springs to mind. I had some good questions about it for BUck but he didn't respond. We have the net to keep us informed of how the inner workings of the TMO are going you see so we don't have to visit FF, the changes to the websites tell us a lot.What people post here tells us a lot. The thing is we all have a vested interest in our spiritual alma mater and how it turns out. Trouble is somebody round here doesn't want us to take part because we are "apostates". It's a silly term from a silly man who has ended up with too much power which he wields without considering the long term ramifications of his actions for the place. But then he doesn't take part himself so why should he care? Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-: I finally looked up TTFN... From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers aresaying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them isactually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? I'll have a quick stab at this one: Generally I'd say that SCI is wrong because it isn't an accurate description of reality. You may think that doesn't matter and that it's the way you want to look at things and that's fine, but the word science means there must be some sort of process going on to work out whether the set of beliefs you are dealing with can actually explain things or whether they are leading you astray. Evolution is one thing that SCI gets completely wrong, but like a lot of Marshy's teachings it relies on a vague recognition of terms that you perhaps never fully understood. Darwin's great gift to knowledge is that small things can become more complex without any help. There is no creative intelligence behind it. No intelligence at all and the creativity is actually mass murder, we just don't see the vast die off of the inadequate forms that got de-selected. So from our vantage point it looks like things get gradually more perfect and thus conform to the idea that there is a goal for living things but there really isn't. This is a rule of thumb and it's destroyed by further inquiry, and it's the sort of inquiry you can't just work out by looking at something, it took many years for Darwin to do the necessary experiments and many more careers working out the details. Evolution is now a very well sussed theory and nothing Marshy had to say adds or improves it in any way. In fact it only detracts and serves to confuse the unwary. Physics, don't get me started. Not tonight anyway. The main thing wrong here is the same as with everything else, the assumption of a creative intelligence. This is death to science, you can't just blame everything on some unknowable controlling force that underlies reality, that isn't what unified field theories are for, the idea is to explain and it's been heading toward a simplicity - a few forces and electromagnetism - not an underlying complexity. As soon as you start adding things like that you get religious. If complexity came first then where did that come from? A creator must be more complex than the things it creates. You see how it hasn't explained anything? I guess my biggest problem with it is that I don't believe we can trust our experiences in meditation to be revealing any useful information about the way the world works. I've been in there all the way to the hum of the ved and I think it's a mistake to assume I've seen any sort of fundamental physical field. It's all just buzzing stuff in our heads. From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special states of mind and knowledge about the world. S: But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OC
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Yes, I've spoken French in France. Parisian French which was unfortunately not what was spoken in that province. I had about 4 years of French, two in high school and almost two in college. It was by no means my best subject but I would credit that to teachers who were "Frenchophiles" and not "language teachers." Over the past 40 years language training has evolved and I would hope "Frenchophiles" are no longer trying to teach French in schools. I got stuck with French because I changed schools in my last two years of high school and French was the only language class that had an opening. Most of my classmates took German because it's easiest for English speakers to learn. Spanish would have been more practical but also popular in farm country because you could practice with some of the Mexican classmates. I didn't know Hindi when I went to India but did know Sanskrit and of course Devanagari. So I could read signs in the latter many of which were spelling English words posted right below. :-D On 07/07/2015 10:58 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: bhairitu, but would you use French if the baker was genuinely French? Indeed, who among us would be so brave as to speak French to a native?! I sometimes say "bon appetite" when eating out with friends. Kind of saying grace, but in a way that honors the body. And needless to say, the friends aren't French! Forget French and Italian and Hindi. How's your Mandarin coming along? *From:* "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:49 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Using "jai guru dev" shows ignorance on the part of TM'ers. It is a phrase used by many paths to acknowledge their teacher not just TM and usually not used in public. To refer to SBS as "Guru Dev" is incorrect in protocol. Other people have their own "Guru Dev". I like to use phrases to kid folks. We have a photography shop where the owner studied French cooking and makes some wonderful baked goods he sells at the Sunday farmer's market. I always greet with "bon matin" (good morning) and we all have a laugh. Then I order in French. The woman assisting at the booth doesn't know French but knows some Italian. I tried "namaste" the other day but then said "oh wait, that's Hindi" which we all laughed about. On 07/07/2015 09:37 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com <mailto:sharelon...@yahoo.com> [FairfieldLife] wrote: Hi Curtis, Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? *From:* "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <mai
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Sigh, feste, I do feel so fortunate to live in a sweet place like Fairfield but sometimes I wish everyone were more like me LOL! From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Share, I think "namaste" is one of the loveliest of all greetings, but I do cringe at Jai Guru Dev. I got JGD'ed by someone just half an hour ago and it felt strange, like a ghost from the past. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Hi Curtis,Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special states of mind and knowledge about the world. S: But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Me: I guess you say this kind of thing to soften your having a personal opinion on something here. I don't believe you need to apologize for that. I think it is great that you love FFL and have chosen those beliefs out of Maharishi&
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
bhairitu, but would you use French if the baker was genuinely French? Indeed, who among us would be so brave as to speak French to a native?! I sometimes say "bon appetite" when eating out with friends. Kind of saying grace, but in a way that honors the body. And needless to say, the friends aren't French! Forget French and Italian and Hindi. How's your Mandarin coming along? From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Using "jai guru dev" shows ignorance on the part of TM'ers. It is a phrase used by many paths to acknowledge their teacher not just TM and usually not used in public. To refer to SBS as "Guru Dev" is incorrect in protocol. Other people have their own "Guru Dev". I like to use phrases to kid folks. We have a photography shop where the owner studied French cooking and makes some wonderful baked goods he sells at the Sunday farmer's market. I always greet with "bon matin" (good morning) and we all have a laugh. Then I order in French. The woman assisting at the booth doesn't know French but knows some Italian. I tried "namaste" the other day but then said "oh wait, that's Hindi" which we all laughed about. On 07/07/2015 09:37 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Hi Curtis, Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Using "jai guru dev" shows ignorance on the part of TM'ers. It is a phrase used by many paths to acknowledge their teacher not just TM and usually not used in public. To refer to SBS as "Guru Dev" is incorrect in protocol. Other people have their own "Guru Dev". I like to use phrases to kid folks. We have a photography shop where the owner studied French cooking and makes some wonderful baked goods he sells at the Sunday farmer's market. I always greet with "bon matin" (good morning) and we all have a laugh. Then I order in French. The woman assisting at the booth doesn't know French but knows some Italian. I tried "namaste" the other day but then said "oh wait, that's Hindi" which we all laughed about. On 07/07/2015 09:37 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Hi Curtis, Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? -------- *From:* "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into l! ife claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
What part of the meaning "guidelines" do you not understand? They're not "rules" but "suggestions." On 07/07/2015 09:54 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Share, I think "namaste" is one of the loveliest of all greetings, but I do cringe at Jai Guru Dev. I got JGD'ed by someone just half an hour ago and it felt strange, like a ghost from the past. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Hi Curtis, Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special states of mind and knowledge about the world. S: But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Me: I guess you say this kind of thing to soften your having a personal opinion on something here. I don't believe you need to apologize for that. I think it is great that you love FFL and have chosen those beliefs out of Maharishi's system that serve you. My criticism of his teaching is never a personal attack on your life choices. I wish you lots of happiness and good things for your life while believing sincerely that Maharishi's philosophy i
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
I have long appreciated a lot of the content of what these recently fallen had provided however it is unfortunate how they conducted themselves as they had in posting. As much as some here may assert that moderation here is something personalized about content but active moderation here is simply about alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines within a yahoo-group as folks write and contribute to the community here. Take a moment to quietly re-read the yahoo-groups guidelines. They are quite reasonable and well thought by Yahoo as guideline for communal membership. -JaiGuruYou https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/guidelines/groups/index.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Hi Curtis,Well I'm completely appalled when people greet each other with Jai Guru Dev! That's kind of what I'm poking at. I honor that someone honors another human being and have been known to say "namaste" myself. But saying Jai Guru Dev rather than hello seems like a highjacking of a sincere honoring and turning it into something rote and meaningless. Warning: more softening ahead! OTOH, I acknowledge that I might be wrong about a person's inner experience when they say Jai Guru Dev. Nonetheless, I think a good course of action is to trust my own instincts about another's sincerity and/or groundedness. And I further recognize that people perhaps say Jai Guru Dev in an intentional way, intending to have a deeper experience of life. I'm happy if it works for them. I think you especially but also Xeno, empty and barry2 generally take an intellectual, philosophical and fascinating approach to discussing TM, etc. I enjoy reading these but tend to have a more psychological angle on the world. Such an angle can degenerate into analyzing people's childhood issues and personalities and lifestyles. Enjoyment then can be less. Ok, Curtis, now to address your main point, or at least attempt to. And it totally has to do with the reason I wish you guys would visit here. As best as I can tell, lots of people here aren't going by any guru's insights. Nor even by any guru's experiences. They are living by their own insights and experiences. That for me is proof of TM's efficacy. When in SCI I heard Maharishi say that TM transcends its own activity, I had a flash of insight. That TM totally liberates the seeker, even from itself, to use an awkward wording. And I admit it leads to a conundrum: one is filled with gratitude for a system one no longer needs! I don't know, maybe it's just a GC phase (-: I'd be interested in hearing one concept from SCI that you think is "wrong." And also what exactly you mean by "wrong." Harmful to life? From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special states of mind and knowledge about the world. S: But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Me: I guess you say this kind of thing to soften your having a personal opinion on something here. I don't believe you need to apologize for that. I think it is great that you love FFL and have chosen those beliefs out of Maharishi's system that serve you. My criticism of his teaching is never a personal attack on your life choices. I wish you lots of happiness and good things for your life while believing sincerely that Maharishi's philosophy is wrong on almost everything it claims. Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-: I finally looked up TTFN... From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogrou
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
This Geezerfr quip is hilarious in its way. Poland? I had no thought of extending the civilizing influence of these yahoo-groups guidelines over to other groups. I serve simply as a moderator of Yahoo-groups guidelines here at Rick's pleasure. Conceivably I could be invited in to other yahoo-groups like over at The_Peak to help bring some greater inclusiveness and civility to the discussions there too but no invitation has been extended thus far asking for help. For instance Fleetwood over at The_Peak seems to have a group over there running quite well enough in hand within alignment with the Yahoo-groups guidelines. He has not asked for my assistance with establishing the primacy of the Yahoo-group guidelines there. I don't expect to annex Poland next under the Yahoo-groups guidelines either. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Consider that I keep getting re-incarnated as the same thing. But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Was that your main point? I thought it was that you'd miss me. Boo! I don't think you need have to have been in Fairfield at all to have an opinion about the TMO or TM as it all occurs in the head. And no matter how good a time you're having it doesn't change what I've seen and done. I'd like to know more about FF but no one ever posts anything because it gets analysed by people like me who might have a different viewpoint to what you've decided you want to hear. The recent "vedic" psychiatry debate springs to mind. I had some good questions about it for BUck but he didn't respond. We have the net to keep us informed of how the inner workings of the TMO are going you see so we don't have to visit FF, the changes to the websites tell us a lot.What people post here tells us a lot. The thing is we all have a vested interest in our spiritual alma mater and how it turns out. Trouble is somebody round here doesn't want us to take part because we are "apostates". It's a silly term from a silly man who has ended up with too much power which he wields without considering the long term ramifications of his actions for the place. But then he doesn't take part himself so why should he care? Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-: I finally looked up TTFN... From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health, etc. Yeah, and you Share. You have been a source of fun here when you posted more. And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who open my eyes to things. Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break! TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Sal if you get canned, this place has officially jumped the shark. I couldn't stand the place without dissenting voices like yours. You have made huge intellectual contributions to the place, and the idea that you are now in a laser sight from such a tiny mind's perspective makes me sick. Why thank you Curtis. This place has been great over the years, I think a lot of people have made a real difference to the quality of conversation and if I've helped that in any way for anyone it will have been worth it for more than just the good reads I've had from the rest of you. Assuming my morning rant that spoiled my breakfast as I read news of MJ and Xeno's rude demise from FFL has the expected response I think it's worth remembering what good the old open attitude of FFL did for people like me. When I joined I was a disillusioned yogic flyer who hated a lot of what he'd seen in the TMO, the way it was run and how people were treated but it had taken over my life. The Maheshisms had sunk in to the point that I didn't know how to break free because all my friends were either in the TMO or wouldn't understand. And the guilt applied by the training techniques of the TMO stopped me analysing myself too much and I had bee well brainwashed into fearing stopping the programme. What I learnt from you and Barry and others was that you can break free from the organisation if you want. This place was my exit counsellor and place to discuss cults and religions and how we got involved in any of them and why. It was cathartic and illuminating and entertaining all at once. This is what we get from different perspectives, different viewpoints. It used to be a good halfway house between cult and sanity and that's a good thing and you guys helped with that a lot. FFL was a good place to vent and get things in perspective and talk to people who were there and who know what it's all about. Buck doesn't want that. He's had an agenda to get rid of us "apostates" for a long time and it's sad that Rick let him. When one man has the right to mould the place in his own image then we all stop learning anything new, it all just sinks to some bland middle ground. Sure it's fun to talk about what movies we've seen and museums we've been to but the most instructive people have gone and this place has lost it's magic because of that. But at least you're still here to offer reasoned debate to Buck, not that he'll engage with you. I'll just get quoted a few lines of the guidelines and that will be that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away? I'm waiting to get deleted. But Captain Unity hasn't got up yet so I can play around a bit longer. Come on Buck, what's keepin' ya! There's an "apostate" who needs your attention to stop him telling the truth about things. If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146824.html?src=t_freedom_of_speech George Washington http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Sal if you get canned, this place has officially jumped the shark. I couldn't stand the place without dissenting voices like yours. You have made huge intellectual contributions to the place, and the idea that you are now in a laser sight from such a tiny mind's perspective makes me sick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away? I'm waiting to get deleted. But Captain Unity hasn't got up yet so I can play around a bit longer. Come on Buck, what's keepin' ya! There's an "apostate" who needs your attention to stop him telling the truth about things. If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146824.html?src=t_freedom_of_speech George Washington http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Hi Share. Comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay! Me: Maharishi would have been appalled by this hijacking of his way to honor his master. He was completely against this even when it was directed toward him. The concept of a guru in the way Maharishi used this term is antithetical to human equality. By combining the buzz word terminology used to maintain a hierarchy with an idea of egalitarianism it basically cancels out the intellectual value and integrity of both ideas and philosophies. S: But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present day skin in the game! Me: The philosophy of Maharishi is what most people are challenging, not the eclectic beliefs of many FF residents. When I am criticizing Maharishi's teaching, it is targeted at the core beliefs that underlie many movement participant's philosophies. For example, if you believe in the concept of a guru as a person with the kind of insight into life claimed by gurus, then the difference between how this belief gets mixed up in a personal philosophy is irrelevant to the challenge to the idea. Saying for example, "I believe Maharishi was enlightened and that enlightened people know the reality of life but I don't follow what he says exactly" is just a statement about how incongruent most people's philosophies are. It is not a refutation of the challenge that guru's have not provided enough evidence to support their claims to special states of mind and knowledge about the world. S: But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad! Me: I guess you say this kind of thing to soften your having a personal opinion on something here. I don't believe you need to apologize for that. I think it is great that you love FFL and have chosen those beliefs out of Maharishi's system that serve you. My criticism of his teaching is never a personal attack on your life choices. I wish you lots of happiness and good things for your life while believing sincerely that Maharishi's philosophy is wrong on almost everything it claims. Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-: I finally looked up TTFN... From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good h
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away? I'm waiting to get deleted. But Captain Unity hasn't got up yet so I can play around a bit longer. Well, stick around and play longer. You don't have to try and get chucked off, you can just go willingly if you really want out of here. (I would rather you stayed.) Come on Buck, what's keepin' ya! There's an "apostate" who needs your attention to stop him telling the truth about things. If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146824.html?src=t_freedom_of_speech George Washington http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
salyavin, Jai Guru You! I love how you keep saying bye but remain. Yay!
But you ignored my main point which is people are saying negative stuff and
haven't even been in Fairfield, Ground Zero, in decades! Come on guys, get a
little hands on and current experience before you wade in! Get a little present
day skin in the game!
But having said that, I realize it's just my opinion, just my preference. And
I'm a little OCD so some of the repetition zones me out. My bad!
Yes, life, Jai Guru Life, abounds in irony (-:
I finally looked up TTFN...
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and
rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of
the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away
from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more
tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-:
Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me!
But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I
recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the
weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people
like you and Buck don't like.
Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room
for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's
all on the home page.
But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this
place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is
sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are
the ones nobody wants to read.
Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't
believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess
that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and
voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my
opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy.
Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the
domes for ages. He came here to rant about it.
Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us
(you) the same way he was treated.
Ironic huh?
Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers aresaying
that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them isactually
closing all of his FB pages.
Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion.
Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health,
etc.
Yeah, and you Share. You have been a source of fun here when you posted more.
And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who
open my eyes to things.
Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break!
TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Ouch!
I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in
the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed.
Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course,
that dry, dry sense of humor.
That will not easily be replaced, IMO.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of theyahoo-groups guidelines
of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away? I'm waiting to get deleted. But Captain Unity hasn't got up yet so I can play around a bit longer. Come on Buck, what's keepin' ya! There's an "apostate" who needs your attention to stop him telling the truth about things. If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146824.html?src=t_freedom_of_speech George Washington http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise. You're making me laugh. Every time you say "bye" you keep coming back. That's fine but what's the deal here? Just can't stay away?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : “..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye Doug, they were pushing you to ask them to leave. No kidding, but who would want to be a member of a club that would accept them? Especially when the guy breathing over your shoulder is a sad hypocrite. Why should we, who have been here for ages talking sense about things Buck is just too sensitive about, suddenly have to conform to what HE wants? I'm not totally seeing that, Sal. I get that you dislike me for all sorts of reasons and probably don't want or will not read this reply but here's how I see it: FFL has been an interesting forum over the years with all sorts of smart, albeit often prickly, personalities who enjoy a good discussion or argument often with the result that there is intelligent and worthwhile reading material. I have only been here for about 3 years and in that time I have seen quite a few members come and go. Some I was more than happy to see either leaving of their own volition or sometimes not but others were a loss for this group when they said "bye, bye". But during all of this there was so little moderation that it became a real free for all with all of us (with the exception of the terminally polite posters like john esq) slinging all sorts of insults and others wantonly skewing and maliciously misrepresenting others here, incessantly. We saw the whole range of bad behaviour as well as some great writing. FFL seemed to have become the place where those who expected no moderation came to hang out. As a result when things finally got to the point of some pretty ugly mudslinging and total lack of self control by certain individuals a moderator was appointed by the moderator who didn't want to really moderate and surprise - that new moderator started to apply the Yahoo guidelines to the hitherto lawless FFL. And guess what? Those most in non compliance to the guidelines got their wrists slapped and then whined or ranted or their friends whined and ranted that "it's not fair" like some little kid. In my opinion, many here simply don't want to face the fact that this place is now being moderated and that those who have, so far, been told to leave as a result of defying the guidelines either willingly dared Doug to oust them or were simply too unself aware to realize when they overstepped them. Surely by now, now that there are three who all seem to agree with each other on most things, could start their own forum and keep doing whatever the hell they want to where Doug will "leave them alone". Especially as he has no counter arguments and just hides behind his pathetic guidelines. They aren't Doug's guidelines, they are Yahoo's. It's his plan to make this place as dull as possible, with no criticism and nothing to upset the True Believer. This has been his stated plan for ever. See, now this is an example of the small thinking that makes this place rey dull. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
n here when you posted more. And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who open my eyes to things. Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break! TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I'm glad you are sticking around, although it seems like a rather tenuous connection. I'm sure I'll be gone when Buck wakes up and switches on his computer to see what we thought of his "night of the long knives" But you never know, maybe he finds me such irresistible company he'll keep me around! I enjoy the opposing point of view, when it's not agenda driven. Anything agenda driven gets old fast, I'd say. Don't understand what agenda's you think people have round here? Mine is just to be honest and say what I think about what I've seen when I was in the TMO, and talk about dinosaurs obviously. I'll miss the boys too much though. And feel like I want solidarity with people who have been removed for no good reason by a maniac who just wants the "apostates" to stop reminding him that the quest for enlightenment isn't all as rosy as he likes to think. What Marshy didn't tell him - probably because he didn't know - is that you never get to the end of the rainbow, all you do is find that you never left the start. Does that sound like unity? Unity with what? A unified field that doesn't exist, and even if it did it would only mean that a few physicists understand the connection between the nuclear forces and electromagnetism. It's seems bizarre to me that he's made such a vendetta against people that don't buy the dream that he does that he would delete them from a forum that was set up to allow people to talk about that sort of thing! That's what this is all about, that's Buck's agenda and it isn't like he hasn't made that plain over the years. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health, etc. Yeah, and you Share. You have been a source of fun here when you posted more. And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who open my eyes to things. Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break! TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
I saw the offending post from Xeno before it was deleted, and I think Doug made the right decision. The post was malicious. It used information that Xeno supposedly had about Doug's private life in an attempt to embarrass him. That's a straight red card, no doubt about it. Unlike Turquoise B, however, Zeno was not a serial offender and did make some thoughtful contributions here, some of them at great length. (I thought of him as Zeno the Interminable.) Perhaps a limited ban might be appropriate, of say, 30 days? I did not dislike MJ but his posts were clearly and consistently in breach of the Yahoo! guidelines. I think that anyone who runs a Yahoo! group is entitled to decide what is acceptable and what is not, based on those guidelines. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
I'm glad you are sticking around, although it seems like a rather tenuous connection. I enjoy the opposing point of view, when it's not agenda driven. Anything agenda driven gets old fast, I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health, etc. Yeah, and you Share. You have been a source of fun here when you posted more. And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who open my eyes to things. Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break! TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-: Hey, whatdya know , I'm still here! Jai Guru Me! But I don't really think there's been a deluge of anti-TMO offerings. What I recall is a lot of people who have personal and first hand experience of the weird cult that is TM have expressed - and justified - opinions that people like you and Buck don't like. Why you don't like it is a mystery to me, this is - or was - a discussion room for people with opinions about TM, the TMO and anything else, to share. It's all on the home page. But now Buck has assumed control and deleted all the interesting posters this place is now effectively just a bliss bunny forum with nothing to say. This is sad. The natural conclusion of censorship is that the only posts remaining are the ones nobody wants to read. Look at what Buck used as an excuse to get rid of MJ. It's pathetic. I can't believe you lot are just going to go along with it and not object. But I guess that's what lifetime in a cult does for you. I remember being in the TMO and voicing a contrary opinion and was told that this is a dictatorship and my opinion wasn't relevant if it contradicted Marshy. Funny thing is, Buck was a victim of this fearful fascism and banned from the domes for ages. He came here to rant about it. Now he's back in the fold he's come over all Jai Guru Dev and wants to treat us (you) the same way he was treated. Ironic huh? Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually closing all of his FB pages. Probably just doesn't like the ability of people to offer a contrary opinion. Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health, etc. Yeah, and you Share. You have been a source of fun here when you posted more. And I got some good book recommendations from you. I always thank people who open my eyes to things. Somehow I'll have to find something else to do on my tea break! TTFN ;-) From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Though I will miss salyavin's science contributions and Xeno's dry humor and
rationality, turq's passion and urbanity, I will enjoy immensely the absence of
the deluge of anti TMO offerings, largely because they are made far far away
from Ground Zero, so to speak. And I will even more immensely enjoy the more
tamasic of said negative rantings. Rajo guna I don't mind so much (-:
Just this morning I was reading that a couple of spiritual teachers are saying
that too much social media damages the third eye. One of them is actually
closing all of his FB pages.
Bye salyavin, xeno and turq, wishing you all much happiness and good health,
etc. From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:02 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Ouch!
I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in
the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed.
Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course,
that dry, dry sense of humor.
That will not easily be replaced, IMO.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of theyahoo-groups guidelines
of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye. #yiv9243740225
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : “..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye Doug, they were pushing you to ask them to leave. No kidding, but who would want to be a member of a club that would accept them? Especially when the guy breathing over your shoulder is a sad hypocrite. Why should we, who have been here for ages talking sense about things Buck is just too sensitive about, suddenly have to conform to what HE wants? Especially as he has no counter arguments and just hides behind his pathetic guidelines. It's his plan to make this place as dull as possible, with no criticism and nothing to upset the True Believer. This has been his stated plan for ever. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : “..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too. See you later MJ, have fun!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland? The bloke is an arsehole. If he'd had a millionth of the things to say that the people he's just deleted have this place might limp on for a bit longer but he's just a dumb fuck who reads off the TM bliss brochure to make up for the fact he gave up free thought decades ago. You'd have to be as brainwashed as he is to think otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye. He was half asleep anyway. If you've got any sort of mildly functioning brain I suggest you start using it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye. What, our fucking dumb stormtrooper asshole of a moderator turns up just to delete people now? I guess that's gives us the measure of what he's got to say about anything.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
much smaller ouch MJ, had a nice way of writing, I think, but much of his content was what was below. A sad rut to be in, but I will miss him nonetheless for some of his more creative stuff. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : “..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Ouch! I read xeno's post this morning, but couldn't reply. (of course it's all in the yahoo/ffl/mailarchive), but I guess a line was crossed. Too bad, cuz I like xeno's brand of cynicism for the most part, and of course, that dry, dry sense of humor. That will not easily be replaced, IMO. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
The hypocrisy from Doug/Buck is breathtaking. What's next from you, Poland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
The hypocrisy on your part here is breathtaking Doug/Buck. What's next for you? Poland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : “..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye Doug, they were pushing you to ask them to leave. They think this will prove some point. They appear to have achieved what they set out to do. When one puts their mind to something it is amazing how one can create exactly what one is trying to achieve. In this case MJ has been goading you, daring you to kick him off and trying his damnedest to push the envelope as far as it would go. All it prove is that they both knew exactly what the yahoo guidelines were and did exactly what they knew could get them kicked off. No big feat. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
“..Also not welcome are belligerence, insults, slurs, profanity or ranting.” -Bye ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Buck is showing his true TM colors - hypocritical and full of crap, behavior
learned from his beloved Marshy and Company - they were full of it too.
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 10:08 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
You were in a publicly known place with other people, with a very popular
person; one cannot be private in such a situation, one is seen in such a
situation; you may even have been photographed in such a situation. That is
public knowledge even though you might want to hide such behaviour from a
certain organisation, but you were seen. In the light of your comments in the
past, you would be considered what you have called others, an apostate. The
other comments were factual, concerning your behaviour in the past, what you
publicly posted on Fairfield Life, so it is not a slur. Your name was not
mentioned in the post, and everybody knows it anyway, you never requested
anonymity when you were on FFL. End of Message.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of theyahoo-groups guidelines
of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye. #yiv4644874834
#yiv4644874834 -- #yiv4644874834ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye. He was half asleep anyway.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
You were in a publicly known place with other people, with a very popular person; one cannot be private in such a situation, one is seen in such a situation; you may even have been photographed in such a situation. That is public knowledge even though you might want to hide such behaviour from a certain organisation, but you were seen. In the light of your comments in the past, you would be considered what you have called others, an apostate. The other comments were factual, concerning your behaviour in the past, what you publicly posted on Fairfield Life, so it is not a slur. Your name was not mentioned in the post, and everybody knows it anyway, you never requested anonymity when you were on FFL. End of Message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostates
Dear Xenophaneros Anartaxius you are well aware of the yahoo-groups guidelines of invading privacy or slurring people on yahoo-groups. Bye.
