Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

With good cause... in scientific basis, some while ago I wrote Hagelin and others in DLF memos with the idea about having DLF people in New York work at giving TM to UN staff aid workers, the career professionals who go out to troubled spots in the world in support of peace action. Good to see

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

4:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   Michael, This one incident determines his all time personality? According to wikipedia, he disowned his son Peter's adopted daughter, that is she was not related to him except as an in-law. He reportedly wrote to her  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" TM, Air Pollution, and Your Heart with Robert D. Brook, MD by Maharishi University of Management http://new.livestream.com/mum/brook http://new.livestream.com/mum/br

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Life]" *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 12:36 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" Away for a day and the thread moves on to other things. My take on the wealthy is some people pay attention to some of them, like Warren Buffet

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

he gap between rich and poor in America. Screw Buffett. From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" Away for a day and the thread moves on

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

On 03/30/2015 10:32 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : On 03/30/2015 09:14 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , wrote : Actually, people DO pay attent

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

On 03/30/2015 11:00 AM, rich...@rwilliams.us [FairfieldLife] wrote: Most of the world's billionaires started out with nothing, so what's your excuse? You mean like the Koch brothers or the Waltons? They earned their wealth the old fashioned way, they inherited it. You were probably bor

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Most of the world's billionaires started out with nothing, so what's your excuse? You were probably born with a silver spoon in your mouth in the land of opportunity. You had everything including the freedom of choice. You probably earn more in an hour than most people earn in a week. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

ot. Non sequitur. Have to stop now to order the pizza for Daughter's lunch vittles. Non sequitur. From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : On 03/30/2015 09:14 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote : Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do. You have comp

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do. They really DO set teh trends and fashions of society. And of course, when Ray D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

o stop now to order the pizza for Daughter's lunch vittles. From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   TM, Air Pollution, and

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

on Vedic Head Shrinking) From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   TM, Air Pollution, and Your Heart with Robert D. Bro

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

rfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"  In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM was (and still is two years later,

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

e]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   Away for a day and the thread moves on to other things. My take on the wealthy is some people pay attention to some of them, like Warren Buff

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

rfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do.  They really DO set teh trends and fashions of society. And of course, when Ray Dalio appea

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

On 03/30/2015 09:14 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do. You have completely departed from reality with this statement. Nobody gives a toss what millionaires do, their lives are so far remov

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Away for a day and the thread moves on to other things. My take on the wealthy is some people pay attention to some of them, like Warren Buffet because he has had a rather astounding ability to make money and is nonetheless perceived as a fairly normal person without a lot of pretension. As for

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do. You have completely departed from reality with this statement. Nobody gives a toss what millionaires do, their lives are so far removed from ours that they might as well be

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

A car is all about the wheels - that's where the rubber meets the road. If you have 20 inch wheels you can improve your MPG - it's a matter of math and the circumference of a circle in motion. Not all cars are equal in a race. What you need to understand is that the TM technique is NOT the ca

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" You're aware that all TM teachers teach the same way, and more than likely some o

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Everyone on this forum knows that human levitation has been achieved already and has been witnessed hundreds of times by reliable meditation teachers, so there's no doubt about this para-normal ability being possible - human suspension in mid-air with no visible means of physical support. In

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Its no big deal - Rama levitated hundreds of times in front of hundreds of people. It has been reported that Rama could turn whole lecture halls golden. Obviously anyone can hop like a frog on foam, but if someone could slowly lift up off of a sofa in the desert and hover in mid-air, that wo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Saying that TM is any different from most other Sanskrit mantra based meditations is like saying "our car is different, it has wheels." :-D On 03/30/2015 07:37 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ummm. You keep on posting and I keep on responding. I wasn't

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

It's getting to be like a circus over here - informants can't even remember minutes later what they previously posted. LoL! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : And who told you I was banned from the entire website? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Where did I say

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ummm. You keep on posting and I keep on responding. I wasn't complaining. I'm just impressed by the energy you put into it. I'm posting positive stuff about TM here and on reddit. Keep it up, it's fun. And who told you I was banned

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Actually, people DO pay attention to what billlionaires say and do. They really DO set teh trends and fashions of society. And of course, when Ray Dalio appears on the stage with Bob Roth, it makes all sorts of headlines in business journals. How Meditation Makes Ray Dalio Feel 'Like A

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

thank you - I'll check it out later today From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   TM, Air Pollution, and Your Heart wi

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

onday, March 30, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   You're aware that all TM teachers teach the same way, and more than likely some of the recerted teachers work for the DLF? I mean, Bobby Roth goes to teh Hamptons and lectures to bill

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

peech please From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" As I pointed out, the lead author (who also wrote the response in the Letters to t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Ummm. You keep on posting and I keep on responding. I'm posting positive stuff about TM here and on reddit. And who told you I was banned from the entire website? I'm co-moderator of /r/transcendental afterall. By the way, what makes you certain that 'tis a lost crusade? The f

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

but right down the middle." From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the Americ

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

rfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM was (and still is two years

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

ot;LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator" In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM w

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

post the link to the mum speech please From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   As I pointed out, the lead author (who also wrote

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

g "Bob Schneider can kiss my ass, not on the left side and not on the right side, but right down the middle." From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

eldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM was (and still is two years later, even after

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Did you miss that the AHA accepted, without dispute, the claim that TM reduces DEATH by 48% over 5 years in Black Americans with cardiac disease? Ball-squeezing may have more effect on BP, but TM's effects on overall mortality go beyond simple lowering of BP. L ---In FairfieldLife@ya

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM was (and still is two years later, even after revisions) the only form of meditation that the AHA says can be recommended by doctors for the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

In case you hadn't noticed, the lead author of the American Heart Association report that said that TM was (and still is two years later, even after revisions) the only form of meditation that the AHA says can be recommended by doctors for the treatment of hypertension is now pretty good friends

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Forget all that. My new

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Interesting perspective, and there may be some truth to it. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Lawson is IMO a perfect example of the reason the TMO does "research." Contrary to popular opinion, the research is NOT done to convince non-meditators of the e

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Forget all that. My new guru has taught me that walking fast is the first stage in r

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

This ignores the fact that when Benson asked the Dalai Lama for an intro to BUddhist practitioners of levitation, all he got were people hopping like a frog. But Buddhist Hopping Like a Frog is special, while TM Hopping Like a Frog isn't. It's always amusing to see people bring up issues

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Forget all that. My new guru has taught me that walking fast is the first stage in running t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Forget all that. My new guru has taught me that walking fast is the first stage in running through the light barrier. I'm just going to huff and puff t

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Forget all that. My new guru has taught me that walking fast is the first stage in running through the light barrier. I'm just going to huff and puff to the cafe

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Does the term "simile" mean anything to you? "Moving along the ground as a frog jumps" probably doesn't mean your legs turn green, but that you move in a series of short hops, or so I would interpret it. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Absolutely! The Dome but-bounc

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Absolutely! The Dome but-bouncers can even come close to the hopping of real frogs. Refer to the websites on the frog-jumping contests at the Calaveras County fair. One site shows Larry the Cable Guy holding one of the champion frogs. Larry would'nt be caught dead in the Domes.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really "hopping like a frog?" Hmmm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : But the dome but-bouncers haven't even gotten to the first (frog-hopping) stage, so it's more a matter of objectivity rather than rudeness. .. As far a

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Responses embedded following your text in the old school way of responding... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : [...] Meditation may reduce death, heart attack and stroke in heart patients Meditation and Heart Health http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHearta

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

But the dome but-bouncers haven't even gotten to the first (frog-hopping) stage, so it's more a matter of objectivity rather than rudeness. .. As far as even close to being credible, (imo) a good second hand account would be the chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi on the levitating Sa

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

May be two sides of the same pure Consciousness coin, as hinted at by a previous contributor. You may be conflating "going into Ecstacy" (the Ecstatic state is a particular state described by certain Christian Saints and their observers in which to outwarded appearances, the subject is (as if) d

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Lots of people enjoy piling onto Maharishi about "hopping like a frog" being the first stage of Yogic Flying, with a latter stage being levitation, but as I pointed out, the _Shiva Samhita_ describes levitation as coming in various stages, including moving along the ground as a " frog jumps" (ar

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

This might be Maharishi's distinction between little-t transcending, where the mind is diverted from thinking the mantra and back on thoughts even though pure consciousness never occured, vs Big-T Transcending, aka "pure consciousness" aka "pure awareness," where all perception of any kind has

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

According to what I've read, there are two truths - there is relative truth and there is absolute truth. The Advaita Vedanta idea of two levels of truth (Sanskrit: satya) is similar to the Buddhist doctrine of the two truths (Tibetan: bden-pa gnyis). In Indian Buddhism, there is a relative or

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

According to Comans, samadhi has two stages: samprajana samadhi - enstasis where there is still object-consciousness; and, nirvikalpasamadhi - where there is no longer any object-consciousness. "The purpose of yogic meditation is to *isolate* bodily fluctuations and pass into samprajana sam

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

I don't know where the debate started, but my point was that two different groups are using the same two words in different ways: TMers equote "pure awareness"Back https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages with "pure consciousness" with "transcendental conscious

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Here is Maharishi's take on teh scientific study of meditation. Note that he is talking about human consciousness here, not the ground state of natural law, aka brahman. That is referred to as that wholeness of life which is present everywhere. "Every experience has its level of phys

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with dif

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:54 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   Buck, you seem more coherent now that you are out of the dome. I was going to say the same

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

There is only one single state, but it has different aspects, perception depending on one's level of consciousness. The ultimate reality is pure consciousness. My position, and the position of most idealistic transcendentalists, is that we infer, from the fact of being conscious, that conscio

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"   Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Buck, you seem more coherent now that you are out of the dome. Could it be when one door closes, another one opens? Don't live your life for others even if you are supportive of others. I saw Krishnamurti before I learned TM. I did not understand what he was talking about then, but now it makes

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differe

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervou

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to d

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

I wouldn't say "no thought = no thinker" nor would I say the opposite... How could "you" know? However, even if there's no way to examine the non-existent internal landscape of someone while in the PC state, we can look at the physiological correlates, and they are quire interesting.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' an

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Thanks for posting this sparaig. This is one of my hobby horses. Pure consciousness is precisely awareness without any thought, image or sensation. And no thought = no thinker. Robert K C Forman (a TM practitioner) has written on this topic, including The Problem of Pure Consciousness: Mystic

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

People practising mindfulness (Vipassana) meditation appear to describe pure consciousness as a result as much as those practising TM, though, from what I have read of peoples' experiences, perhaps not quite so soon after starting meditation as TM practitioners. Perhaps part of the difficulty in

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

You can only measure what y ou have the equipment to measure. However, it's a truism that just because two things can be described teh same way at one level, doesn't mean that they are identifical. My favorite example is what happened to some British friends many decades ago... They got a

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Great quotes. The TM researchers and movement seem quite desperate to prove a negative, even if they don't experience it. So, they co-opt the discussion by defining their particular alpha-coherence as the definition of a transcendence. That makes it real easy to win an argument between meditatio

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

Rolls eyes. You can force silence by distracting the mind and diverting resources away from the verbal centers or you can allow the mind to become more calm until silence is everywhere. Pure consciousness during TM is no mantra, no thought, no body awareness, no intuition, no emotion,

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

No mantra-No thought Sounds the same. It is a correct experience of the practice of TM (second night checking) and evidently Mindfulness too Pure Awareness. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What they call pure awareness is not what TMers call pure awareness.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Mind of the Meditator"

What they call pure awareness is not what TMers call pure awareness. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : [Scientific American article by Matthieu Ricard, Antoine Lutz, and Richard J. Davidson, Nov. 2014, p. 43] "In our Wisconsin lab, we have studied experienced practioners while