[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You are trying to justify that you are spreading rumours. Wether 
 they are true or false, contentwise, are of no importance. At 
least 
 to me. The stuff you are spreading about MMy could be true or not. 
 It is of no importance for me if it is true, as I have stated 
 before. It does not diminish his positive influence on my life or 
 the influence he has had and continue to have on the life of this 
 planet. 
 
 I agree with you on that. All it does is make me take everything 
he says
 with a grain of salt. In other words, I don't think, as I once 
did, that
 everything he says must be true because he's enlightened. It 
also raises
 interesting questions regarding the correlation of ethics and 
higher states
 of consciousness. Are they as tightly correlated as Maharishi said 
they
 were? Apparently not. Is there any absolute value to ethical 
standards or
 are they just a matter of culture and personal preference?

Values change. Enlightenment changes and grows also. Ethics and 
enlightenment are probably correlated, by why this hunt for 
perfection ? You won't find it, at least not for the time being. 
What you are seeking, the solution to interesting questions stems 
from an unsettled mind. I could use other words for it also, but Let 
It Be.
No one is 100% in the relative, in Kali Yuga. Perhaps Maitreya and 
the Masters are, I don't know.

 
 The reason I labelled you white trash is because you are 
thriving 
 in that gossip. 
 
 Thriving is not a verb I would have chosen.

You seem to enjoy it.


 
 Even though your ways and lack 
 of principle and honour are subtly hurting your own guru, but not 
 touching her as she is beyond that, by sowing doubt and division 
in 
 the minds of her followers. 
 
 It's not clear to me how I am doing that. Please explain.

Everything is connected with everything else, right ? Thats why, 
when I think you are behaving unbelivebly stupid and eating up your 
deserving ability, I see I could have done the same. I could not 
have seen it if I also did not have the same tendency. Difference is 
that I do not act on it.
One viscious gossip about one Master has a negative influence, first 
of all on yourself of course, but also on all other Masters. You are 
feeding the trait of trickery and treason inherent in all persons by 
your interest in this field. And thus subtly hurting your own guru.

 
 Different stories, same lack of honour 
 and discipline lies at their foundation in the minds of characters 
 like yourself.
 
 May you be able to live with that.
 
 Last time I checked my heart was still beating.

To have a guru in KaliYuga is easy (for most people). They don't ask 
many questions now. But perhaps you will have a harder time next 
time around. Just a thought...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  Because if the course of action is
  unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
  Krishna declares in the Gita, 
 
 There is a group of Beings called the Lipika or the Scribes of the
 Akasa who do know the course of action; also called the Lords of 
Karma.
 
 As MMY does not address this in his BG I think it would be wrong to
 conclude that the course of action is unfathomable to any and at 
all
 times.  MMY's point was it was not *necessary* to know the total
 course of action in order to benefit from acting in accord with 
it. 
 
 In Hinduism they are called the Chaturdevas and are great 
spiritual
 Intelligences who keep the karmic records and adjust the 
complicated
 workings of karmic law Annie Besant The Ancient Wisdom.
 
 how would 
  anyone ever know what right was in any
  given situation?
 
 I would think Intuition, based on ...spontaneous right action 
(like
 you mentioned), in CC where one becomes capable of performing 
actions
 in complete accordance with the laws of nature... MMY Gita 3:8

Ask Jim Flanegin if he thinks that all his actions are beyond faults 
all of the time !  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of brontebaxter8
 Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:49 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud 
and Danger
 
  
 
 Rick wrote:
 Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because 
I 
 thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty 
type.
 
 Bronte writes:
 Archer, if you really hold the attitude you expressed in your long 
post 
 to Nabloss today, and here, you won't be misled for long. Just as 
you 
 saw through the illusions of TM eventually. Good for you for 
examining 
 these things. The answers are out there. Check out the archives on 
that 
 ex-amma website, and you will get reams of first-person accounts 
from 
 long-term devotees, many of whom served in the Indian ashram for 
years 
 and years before leaving. Don't be afraid of researching this, of 
 finding out more truth. It can only lead you to still better 
things. 
 
 I also know people much closer to Amma than these critics ever 
were. I've
 driven and chatted with the woman who is Amma's private attendant –
 who
 sleeps in her room, etc., as well as her public attendant. These 
two are
 with her 24/7. I was very impressed with both of them. They are
 down-to-earth, unassuming, natural, good-humored, and not at all 
weird or
 secretive about Amma, the way their counterparts in the TM 
movement would
 probably be. They may be unaware of the things you bring up, but I 
doubt it
 because they are like her shadows, and hear everything. In fact, 
not only
 those two, but the swamis who have been with her for decades would 
impress
 just about anyone with their simplicity, humility, and genuineness.
 Maharishi used to say that you can judge the quality of a guru by 
the
 quality of the people around him, and if that is true, these folks 
are an
 impressive testimonial.

I've met them too, very good people. 
Your problem is that you have no clue as to who Maharishi is or what 
he is doing. Never had, never will.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[boo_lives]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of brontebaxter8
 Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:49 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and
Danger
 
  
 
 Rick wrote:
 Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I 
 thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty type.
 
 Bronte writes:
 Archer, if you really hold the attitude you expressed in your long post 
 to Nabloss today, and here, you won't be misled for long. Just as you 
 saw through the illusions of TM eventually. Good for you for examining 
 these things. The answers are out there. Check out the archives on that 
 ex-amma website, and you will get reams of first-person accounts from 
 long-term devotees, many of whom served in the Indian ashram for years 
 and years before leaving. Don't be afraid of researching this, of 
 finding out more truth. It can only lead you to still better things. 
 
 I also know people much closer to Amma than these critics ever were.
I've
 driven and chatted with the woman who is Amma's private attendant – who
 sleeps in her room, etc., as well as her public attendant. These two are
 with her 24/7. I was very impressed with both of them. They are
 down-to-earth, unassuming, natural, good-humored, and not at all
weird or
 secretive about Amma, the way their counterparts in the TM movement
would
 probably be. They may be unaware of the things you bring up, but I
doubt it
 because they are like her shadows, and hear everything. In fact, not
only
 those two, but the swamis who have been with her for decades would
impress
 just about anyone with their simplicity, humility, and genuineness.
 Maharishi used to say that you can judge the quality of a guru by the
 quality of the people around him, and if that is true, these folks
are an
 impressive testimonial.

One other point reg. the amma group is that you are free to bring up
any complaints you have directly to the head people.  I've seen people
argue with Amma over how things are done many times in front of a
larger group and I've done it directly with Amma and with some of the
swamis.  I was largely though not completely satisfied with the
responses, though the main point is that there is an atmosphere in the
upper hierarchy that is open to complaints and wanting to know what
the problems are.

I think there's a growing emphasis on PR within the Amma group and her
serious devotees see the guru as God and that is a dangerous
combination in a fast growing organization, so I think it's good there
are watchgroups out there to bring up issues and keep the fanatics in
line.  I'd also say about 10% of her full time devotees are not
emotionally mature enough to handle the intense service that is
required and should probably leave - something that I don't see
encouraged in that group.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[jyotsna2]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brontebaxter8 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Rick wrote:
 Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I 
 thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty type.
 
 
 Bronte writes:
 Archer, if you really hold the attitude you expressed in your long 
post 
 to Nabloss today, and here, you won't be misled for long. Just as 
you 
 saw through the illusions of TM eventually. Good for you for 
examining 
 these things. The answers are out there. Check out the archives on 
that 
 ex-amma website, and you will get reams of first-person accounts 
from 
 long-term devotees, many of whom served in the Indian ashram for 
years 
 and years before leaving. Don't be afraid of researching this, of 
 finding out more truth. It can only lead you to still better things.


Well, I beg to differ about finding any truth on the ex-Amma 
website.  I used to belong to that group, and it has nothing 
to do with free speech or free inquiry.  Instead, it's all 
about bashing Amma, and anyone who disagrees, even with the most 
egregious errors, has that post deleted (by the moderator, I 
presume) and it never sees the light of day.  I have a friend 
who is still a member, and she tells me it's still that way.  
Hardly a forum to learn truth.  And instead of many long-term
devotees, I believe there are only a very few, possibly only 
even one or two who post under different names to try to make 
it seem there are more.

The only reason Bronte is allowed to vent on this board is because 
the moderator values free speech, unlike the ex-Amma list.

Jyotsna 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[brontebaxter8]

Archer, YOU post this information to your Amma devotees' website if 
you find these allegations disturbing. YOU do the research and hash 
it out, since you are the one involved in this cult, not me. It's not 
my job to convince you. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 These accusations are disturbing if true, but I'm not in a position 
to rebut
 them. As I said, I don't have first-hand experience of anything 
going on in
 India, and my experience with Amma in the US has been positive and
 uplifting. I suggest again that you post such things to HYPERLINK
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zonehttp://group
s.yahoo.
 com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone, where you might get some 
informed
 responses, pro and con. But of course, your forgone conclusion is 
that gurus
 and Indian spirituality in general are bad, so maybe it suits you 
better to
 post to sites where no one will challenge what you say.
 
 
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 7:54 PM

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brontebaxter8
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Archer, YOU post this information to your Amma devotees' website
 if you find these allegations disturbing. YOU do the research and
 hash  it out, since you are the one involved in this cult, not me.
 It's not my job to convince you. 
 
But, you're the one obsessing over the allegations. Rick is not.

My hunch, though, is that your sole interest in those allegations lies
in the fact that Rick happens to be an Amma devotee. I think you're
posting the allegations to FFL because you think it will upset Rick.  

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  These accusations are disturbing if true, but I'm not in a position 
 to rebut
  them. As I said, I don't have first-hand experience of anything 
 going on in
  India, and my experience with Amma in the US has been positive and
  uplifting. I suggest again that you post such things to HYPERLINK
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zonehttp://group
 s.yahoo.
  com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone, where you might get some 
 informed
  responses, pro and con. But of course, your forgone conclusion is 
 that gurus
  and Indian spirituality in general are bad, so maybe it suits you 
 better to
  post to sites where no one will challenge what you say.
  
  
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 10/26/2007
  7:54 PM
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[WLeed3]

I also suspected the allegations U posted here  re:Amma were to  Up set Rick 
no more  not much less  Ur the one I-- we believe so  obsessed.



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

I forwarded Bronte’s post to a friend whom I thought might be in a position
to respond to it, and here’s her response:

 

Here's what I know about the charges.  I'm in a bit of a unique situation 

as I'm sure I know the original poster.  His name is Gary A., and we used to


be friends when we were both SRF people who had just come to Amma.  

He's stayed at my house and I've stayed at his (former) house in the Bay 

area.  His spiritual name (given by Amma) is Aniruddhan, a name he 

has posted under.  I suspect that he himself is the 

consultant who went to India.  The truth is that he was living with a
nurse, 

Donna (also SRF), who was actually asked to go to the AIMS hospital as a 

consultant, and he thought he'd go there and snoop around, see what he 

could find out.  (He told me that before he went there.)  

 

There my clarity disappears.  I know he was not happy with what he found 

and actually confronted Amma Herself about it.  My friend M. told 

me that.  It was while they were on tour, by the side of the road outside 

her motorhome.  Since he received no satisfaction, he apparently made 

it his mission to expose Amma.  

 

What I do know about Gary is that on a personal level he turned out (again 

according to M.) to be a real creep towards Donna.  I can't recall 

all the details, but I know she caught him going online and soliciting 

dates with other women.  Then when she broke up with him, he began making 

threatening phone calls to her--or something like that.  Since he can't seem


to maintain a relationship with a woman, if you know the right sites online,


you could probably pretend to be a comely lass and mention your interest

in Ammachi and he might even still be out there cruising.  

 

So on a personal level he's a troubled guy.  I don't know what to think
about the 

charges, which I have read before on other sites.  I do know a former nun
who 

also says that Amma has yelled You sons of bitches get on the bus! when
she 

was on tour in India.  That is factual, as far as I can tell.  

 

I know that when my friend Laurie was treated at the AIMS Hospital 

(for a staph infection) her surgery, medicines, and treatment for five  

days was about $14, which struck us as extremely reasonable.  

Since she would have been considered wealthy by Indian standards, 

they could have charged several times that and she would not have minded.  

But they didn't.  

 

I have no idea (other than offical Ammadom) where you could go to get the
real 

scoop.  If I go to India again, I'd like to go to the orphanage and check
out Gary's 

charges.  That should be pretty easy to verify.  

 

Previously when I've thought deeply about these charges, what I've come down
to 

is that Amma is a genuine saint and Gary is a troubled soul.  So I'm
sticking with 

Amma.  One thing's for sure:  No poor people would have been treated at AIMS


if Amma hadn't built it.  

 


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11:02 AM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 These accusations are disturbing if true, but I'm not in a 
position to rebut
 them. As I said, I don't have first-hand experience of anything 
going on in
 India, and my experience with Amma in the US has been positive and
 uplifting. I suggest again that you post such things to HYPERLINK
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zonehttp://grou
ps.yahoo.
 com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone, where you might get some 
informed
 responses, pro and con. But of course, your forgone conclusion is 
that gurus
 and Indian spirituality in general are bad, so maybe it suits you 
better to
 post to sites where no one will challenge what you say.

Much like yourself, I might add. Nobody can challenge your lies 
because you yourself operate with anonymous witnesess. It's ironic 
that the shit you are spreading here hits the fan and hits your own 
guru. 
I think she can handle it - I hope you can live with it.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 12:21 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

 

Much like yourself, I might add. Nobody can challenge your lies 
because you yourself operate with anonymous witnesess. It's ironic 
that the shit you are spreading here hits the fan and hits your own 
guru. 
I think she can handle it - I hope you can live with it.

Nabsters, I want to point out what I perceive as a difference in the way you
and I respond to this kind of stuff. My response to the Amma stuff was to
say “I can’t refute these points because I haven’t witnessed any of it first
hand or spoken to anyone who has. I suggest you post it to such-and-such
site where more experienced people may respond. My experience so far has
been positive.” I also emailed a friend who might know more and posted her
response, which corroborated some of the accusations and cast doubt on
others.

Your response to the Maharishi stuff, as well as Amma, Sai Baba, Muktananda,
etc. stuff is to say “It’s all lies. I don’t believe any of it.” The fact
is, you don’t know with certainty if it’s all lies, or some of it, or none
of it. All you know, perhaps unconsciously, is that it considering that it
might be true makes you uncomfortable because it clashes with what you
believe, or want to believe. It’s like a Christian saying “I believe Christ
was born of a virgin and rose from the dead.” Believing that is fine, but
there’s a difference between believing and knowing. The Christian really
thinks those things happened, because it shakes his world if he questions
them. He therefore dismisses anyone who asks him to question them as doomed
to hell, or otherwise faithless and deluded. In other words, he trashes the
messenger because it’s too uncomfortable to contemplate the message. It
would require too much change in his life and beliefs if the message were
true, even partially.


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11:02 AM
 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

Some other tidbits from my friend. In case you’re losing track of the
relevance of this, Aniruddhan is the fellow who wrote the thing Bronte
posted.

 

Dear MH,

Thanks for the great reply. Mind if I share it
without revealing your identity? Yes, I, too,
thought that Aniruddhan is creating future hell
for himself. My heart tells me not to buy into
the stuff he's saying.

Much love,
J

--- MHC wrote:
 J--Well I did find it mildly interesting in the same
 way I find gosip mildy interesting--it passes the
 time. Perhaps all the dirt is true, I don't know.
 Many people look for things to be logical and make
 sense and I don't do that around Mother anymore if I
 ever did. I''ve cast my lot with her and If she
 turns out to be a false Messiah or whatever, well, I
 guess I'll go down with the ship. And if she turns
 out to be the real thing as I am convinced beyond
 any shodow of a doubt that she is, well, she'd
 better take me with her in that case too. I'm stuck
 on Master's words: Loyatly is the highest virtue.
 Poor Anniruddin.
 
 J wrote:Dear MH,
 
 I'm forwarding this to you because the post in
 question (the SRF walrus site is actually an
 anti-SRF board, no doubt handled by Ananda.)
 concerns our old friend Aniruddhan. In fact, 
 from the flawless prose, the use of a pseudonym,
 etc. I think the poster is probably none other 
 than he, representing himself as only knowing
 the guy who was doing consulting. (I thought
 it was Donna doing the actual consulting.) I
know Aniruddhan always loved peudonyms and 

often used them on e-mails he sent me.  

 

Love,

J

 


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11:02 AM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[lurkernomore20002000]

MHC wrote:
J--Well I did find it mildly interesting in the same way I find gosip 
mildy interesting--it passes the time. Perhaps all the dirt is true, 
I don't know. Many people look for things to be logical and make sense 
and I don't do that around Mother anymore if I ever did. I''ve cast my 
lot with her and If she turns out to be a false Messiah or whatever, 
well, I guess I'll go down with the ship. And if she turns out to 
be the real thing as I am convinced beyond any shodow of a doubt 
that she is, well, she'd better take me with her in that case too. I'm 
stuck on Master's words: Loyatly is the highest virtue.
Poor Anniruddin.

Lurk:
Yowzer. I'm tryin to think if this was me 25 years ago.  I hope not.  
Kinda sums up cult mentality.  

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of lurkernomore20002000
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:38 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

 

MHC wrote:
J--Well I did find it mildly interesting in the same way I find gosip 
mildy interesting--it passes the time. Perhaps all the dirt is true, 
I don't know. Many people look for things to be logical and make sense 
and I don't do that around Mother anymore if I ever did. I''ve cast my 
lot with her and If she turns out to be a false Messiah or whatever, 
well, I guess I'll go down with the ship. And if she turns out to 
be the real thing as I am convinced beyond any shodow of a doubt 
that she is, well, she'd better take me with her in that case too. I'm 
stuck on Master's words: Loyatly is the highest virtue.
Poor Anniruddin.

Lurk:
Yowzer. I'm tryin to think if this was me 25 years ago. I hope not. 
Kinda sums up cult mentality. 

Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I thought
it would strengthen my case. I’m not the blind loyalty type.


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11:02 AM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
 Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 12:21 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud 
and Danger
 
  
 
 Much like yourself, I might add. Nobody can challenge your lies 
 because you yourself operate with anonymous witnesess. It's 
ironic 
 that the shit you are spreading here hits the fan and hits your 
own 
 guru. 
 I think she can handle it - I hope you can live with it.
 
 Nabsters, I want to point out what I perceive as a difference in 
the way you
 and I respond to this kind of stuff. My response to the Amma stuff 
was to
 say I can't refute these points because I haven't witnessed any 
of it first
 hand or spoken to anyone who has. I suggest you post it to such-
and-such
 site where more experienced people may respond. My experience so 
far has
 been positive. I also emailed a friend who might know more and 
posted her
 response, which corroborated some of the accusations and cast 
doubt on
 others.
 
 Your response to the Maharishi stuff, as well as Amma, Sai Baba, 
Muktananda,
 etc. stuff is to say It's all lies. I don't believe any of it. 
The fact
 is, you don't know with certainty if it's all lies, or some of it, 
or none
 of it. All you know, perhaps unconsciously, is that it considering 
that it
 might be true makes you uncomfortable because it clashes with what 
you
 believe, or want to believe. It's like a Christian saying I 
believe Christ
 was born of a virgin and rose from the dead. Believing that is 
fine, but
 there's a difference between believing and knowing. The Christian 
really
 thinks those things happened, because it shakes his world if he 
questions
 them. He therefore dismisses anyone who asks him to question them 
as doomed
 to hell, or otherwise faithless and deluded. In other words, he 
trashes the
 messenger because it's too uncomfortable to contemplate the 
message. It
 would require too much change in his life and beliefs if the 
message were
 true, even partially.

You are trying to justify that you are spreading rumours. Wether 
they are true or false, contentwise, are of no importance. At least 
to me. The stuff you are spreading about MMy could be true or not. 
It is of no importance for me if it is true, as I have stated 
before. It does not diminish his positive influence on my life or 
the influence he has had and continue to have on the life of this 
planet. 
The reason I labelled you white trash is because you are thriving 
in that gossip. Gossip without substance because your source does 
not want to talk.
But you will continue without doubt. Even though your ways and lack 
of principle and honour are subtly hurting your own guru, but not 
touching her as she is beyond that, by sowing doubt and division in 
the minds of her followers. Different stories, same lack of honour 
and discipline lies at their foundation in the minds of characters 
like yourself.

May you be able to live with that.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:56 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

 

You are trying to justify that you are spreading rumours. Wether 
they are true or false, contentwise, are of no importance. At least 
to me. The stuff you are spreading about MMy could be true or not. 
It is of no importance for me if it is true, as I have stated 
before. It does not diminish his positive influence on my life or 
the influence he has had and continue to have on the life of this 
planet. 

I agree with you on that. All it does is make me take everything he says
with a grain of salt. In other words, I don’t think, as I once did, that
“everything he says must be true because he’s enlightened.” It also raises
interesting questions regarding the correlation of ethics and higher states
of consciousness. Are they as tightly correlated as Maharishi said they
were? Apparently not. Is there any absolute value to ethical standards or
are they just a matter of culture and personal preference?

The reason I labelled you white trash is because you are thriving 
in that gossip. 

“Thriving” is not a verb I would have chosen.

Gossip without substance because your source does 
not want to talk.

But they’ve talked to me, so for me it has substance and is more than
gossip.

But you will continue without doubt. 

You bring it up more often than I do. 

Even though your ways and lack 
of principle and honour are subtly hurting your own guru, but not 
touching her as she is beyond that, by sowing doubt and division in 
the minds of her followers. 

It’s not clear to me how I am doing that. Please explain.

Different stories, same lack of honour 
and discipline lies at their foundation in the minds of characters 
like yourself.

May you be able to live with that.

Last time I checked my heart was still beating.

 


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11:02 AM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It also raises interesting questions regarding the correlation
 of ethics and higher states of consciousness. Are they as
 tightly correlated as Maharishi said they were?

Is that what he said, Rick?

Or did he talk about something more like
spontaneous right action and not making
mistakes?

Because if the course of action is
unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
Krishna declares in the Gita, how would 
anyone ever know what right was in any
given situation?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
  It also raises interesting questions regarding the correlation
  of ethics and higher states of consciousness. Are they as
  tightly correlated as Maharishi said they were?
 
 Is that what he said, Rick?
 
 Or did he talk about something more like
 spontaneous right action and not making
 mistakes?
 
 Because if the course of action is
 unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
 Krishna declares in the Gita, how would 
 anyone ever know what right was in any
 given situation?

P.S.: This is *not* to excuse any of MMY's
behavior that may have been untoward. I'm
making a different point altogether.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[lurkernomore20002000]

Lurk:
Yowzer. I'm tryin to think if this was me 25 years ago. I hope not. 
Kinda sums up cult mentality. 
 
Rick:
Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I 
thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty type.

Lurk:
Rick, I knew that had to be the case. Really neat IMO that you laid 
it on the line

Thanks!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[brontebaxter8]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Some other tidbits from my friend. In case you're losing track of 
the
 relevance of this, Aniruddhan is the fellow who wrote the thing 
Bronte
 posted.
 
Rick, I AM losing track. I posted a number of things, not just one, 
so which piece are you referring to? Who was the Joint Secretary in 
charge of accounts -- are you saying now that guy was only a 
consultant, never Amma's joint secretary as claimed? Or are we 
talking about two different people? It would be helpful, in 
referencing an item, if your friends and you would quote from it so 
the readers can identify which article they're referring to.

There is more material coming in from the website about Amma's AIMS 
hospital. I'll forward one of the pieces.
  
  
 
 Dear MH,
 
 Thanks for the great reply. Mind if I share it
 without revealing your identity? Yes, I, too,
 thought that Aniruddhan is creating future hell
 for himself. My heart tells me not to buy into
 the stuff he's saying.
 
 Much love,
 J
 
 --- MHC wrote:
  J--Well I did find it mildly interesting in the same
  way I find gosip mildy interesting--it passes the
  time. Perhaps all the dirt is true, I don't know.
  Many people look for things to be logical and make
  sense and I don't do that around Mother anymore if I
  ever did. I''ve cast my lot with her and If she
  turns out to be a false Messiah or whatever, well, I
  guess I'll go down with the ship. And if she turns
  out to be the real thing as I am convinced beyond
  any shodow of a doubt that she is, well, she'd
  better take me with her in that case too. I'm stuck
  on Master's words: Loyatly is the highest virtue.
  Poor Anniruddin.
  
  J wrote:Dear MH,
  
  I'm forwarding this to you because the post in
  question (the SRF walrus site is actually an
  anti-SRF board, no doubt handled by Ananda.)
  concerns our old friend Aniruddhan. In fact, 
  from the flawless prose, the use of a pseudonym,
  etc. I think the poster is probably none other 
  than he, representing himself as only knowing
  the guy who was doing consulting. (I thought
  it was Donna doing the actual consulting.) I
 know Aniruddhan always loved peudonyms and 
 
 often used them on e-mails he sent me.  
 
  
 
 Love,
 
 J
 
  
 
 
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10/27/2007
 11:02 AM

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[brontebaxter8]

Rick wrote:
Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I 
thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty type.


Bronte writes:
Archer, if you really hold the attitude you expressed in your long post 
to Nabloss today, and here, you won't be misled for long. Just as you 
saw through the illusions of TM eventually. Good for you for examining 
these things. The answers are out there. Check out the archives on that 
ex-amma website, and you will get reams of first-person accounts from 
long-term devotees, many of whom served in the Indian ashram for years 
and years before leaving. Don't be afraid of researching this, of 
finding out more truth. It can only lead you to still better things.   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Because if the course of action is
 unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
 Krishna declares in the Gita, 

There is a group of Beings called the Lipika or the Scribes of the
Akasa who do know the course of action; also called the Lords of Karma.

As MMY does not address this in his BG I think it would be wrong to
conclude that the course of action is unfathomable to any and at all
times.  MMY's point was it was not *necessary* to know the total
course of action in order to benefit from acting in accord with it. 

In Hinduism they are called the Chaturdevas and are great spiritual
Intelligences who keep the karmic records and adjust the complicated
workings of karmic law Annie Besant The Ancient Wisdom.

how would 
 anyone ever know what right was in any
 given situation?

I would think Intuition, based on ...spontaneous right action (like
you mentioned), in CC where one becomes capable of performing actions
in complete accordance with the laws of nature... MMY Gita 3:8

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[tertonzeno]

--Apart from ordinary tools of conscience, logic, etc; which everyone 
should use, the question targets those on the Spiritual path...how is 
their discernment different, adding certain practices, such as TM.
 Karma is ultimately unfathomable, but in addition to TM, chanting 
the Gayatri mantra helps one get into sync with Natural Law, along 
with certain Buddhist mantras.


- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  Because if the course of action is
  unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
  Krishna declares in the Gita, 
 
 There is a group of Beings called the Lipika or the Scribes of the
 Akasa who do know the course of action; also called the Lords of 
Karma.
 
 As MMY does not address this in his BG I think it would be wrong to
 conclude that the course of action is unfathomable to any and at all
 times.  MMY's point was it was not *necessary* to know the total
 course of action in order to benefit from acting in accord with it. 
 
 In Hinduism they are called the Chaturdevas and are great spiritual
 Intelligences who keep the karmic records and adjust the complicated
 workings of karmic law Annie Besant The Ancient Wisdom.
 
 how would 
  anyone ever know what right was in any
  given situation?
 
 I would think Intuition, based on ...spontaneous right action (like
 you mentioned), in CC where one becomes capable of performing 
actions
 in complete accordance with the laws of nature... MMY Gita 3:8

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  Because if the course of action is
  unfathomable--even to the enlightened--as
  Krishna declares in the Gita, 
 
 There is a group of Beings called the Lipika or the Scribes of the
 Akasa who do know the course of action; also called the Lords of 
Karma.
 
 As MMY does not address this in his BG I think it would be wrong to
 conclude that the course of action is unfathomable to any and at all
 times.

The context was what human beings can know,
so this is irrelevant.

  MMY's point was it was not *necessary* to know the total
 course of action in order to benefit from acting in accord
 with it.

Which is fortunate, since we *cannot* know it,
according to Krishna.

snip
 how would 
  anyone ever know what right was in any
  given situation?
 
 I would think Intuition, based on ...spontaneous right action (like
 you mentioned), in CC where one becomes capable of performing 
actions
 in complete accordance with the laws of nature... MMY Gita 3:8

But my point was, that has nothing to do with ethics.
One's intuition might tell one to do something that
most people would view as unethical.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of brontebaxter8
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:32 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

 

--- In HYPERLINK
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick
Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Some other tidbits from my friend. In case you're losing track of 
the
 relevance of this, Aniruddhan is the fellow who wrote the thing 
Bronte
 posted.
 
Rick, I AM losing track. I posted a number of things, not just one, 
so which piece are you referring to? Who was the Joint Secretary in 
charge of accounts -- are you saying now that guy was only a 
consultant, never Amma's joint secretary as claimed? Or are we 
talking about two different people? It would be helpful, in 
referencing an item, if your friends and you would quote from it so 
the readers can identify which article they're referring to.

I’m afraid I can’t keep it straight myself, but my friend whose response I
posted has joined FFL. Perhaps she’ll clarify things.


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Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1097 - Release Date: 10/28/2007
1:58 PM
 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of brontebaxter8
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:49 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Account of Financial Fraud and Danger

 

Rick wrote:
Yeah, I posted that in the spirit of full disclosure, not because I 
thought it would strengthen my case. I'm not the blind loyalty type.

Bronte writes:
Archer, if you really hold the attitude you expressed in your long post 
to Nabloss today, and here, you won't be misled for long. Just as you 
saw through the illusions of TM eventually. Good for you for examining 
these things. The answers are out there. Check out the archives on that 
ex-amma website, and you will get reams of first-person accounts from 
long-term devotees, many of whom served in the Indian ashram for years 
and years before leaving. Don't be afraid of researching this, of 
finding out more truth. It can only lead you to still better things. 

I also know people much closer to Amma than these critics ever were. I’ve
driven and chatted with the woman who is Amma’s private attendant – who
sleeps in her room, etc., as well as her public attendant. These two are
with her 24/7. I was very impressed with both of them. They are
down-to-earth, unassuming, natural, good-humored, and not at all weird or
secretive about Amma, the way their counterparts in the TM movement would
probably be. They may be unaware of the things you bring up, but I doubt it
because they are like her shadows, and hear everything. In fact, not only
those two, but the swamis who have been with her for decades would impress
just about anyone with their simplicity, humility, and genuineness.
Maharishi used to say that you can judge the quality of a guru by the
quality of the people around him, and if that is true, these folks are an
impressive testimonial.


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