Re: Question...for Shiela
Dear Shiela: Can understand your dilemma. Will Bubba allow you to comb him for fleas?? If so, use one of the fine-toothed metal flea combs (the plastic ones don't work as well) and a bowl of water with a bit of dish detergent to rinse the fleas from the comb...the surfacants in the detergent will suffocate the fleas. Other non-toxic things to try are ruffling a bit of garlic powder and/or yeast through his fur to make it inhospitable for the fleas. Garlic ingested in large quantity over time is said to potentially cause anemia in cats, but a small amount is not harmful. I used to routinely mix garlic in my raw food mix along with nutritional yeast for B-vites and fleas were much less of a problem when I did. Then I learned on a holistic website that garlic might be harmful for cats and stopped. This year, the fleas have been so bad I have started adding garlic to their food again and the situation has improved. They all seem to like it and it surely makes the otherwise bland raw food smell delicious. You may need to start by adding a tiny bit and then gradually increasing the amount. I throw whole cloves in the mini food processor to chop it finely or you can use a garlic press to extract just the jice. In his book, The Nature of Animal Healing, Dr. Martin Goldstein (holistic vet) has a section on fleas and provides enlightenment about those supposedly safe commercial flea treatments and the entire rationale of chemically assaulting the flea problem. Fleas, like most parasites, tend to afflict hosts whose immune systems are less able to repel them. The use of chemicals in our homes and on our pets to try and control such pests only serves to further weaken the immune system of the pets we are trying to protect. When dealing with FeLV+ kittys whose immune system is already compromised, the use of such chemicals is even more risky. Dr G's recommendations include: In all cases, I recommend two natural substances: garlic and brewer's yeast. Both exude odors or tastes that discourage fleas. Garlic is as close to a panacea as a natural product can get. Grate or chop a clove or two into each meal, both to combat fleas and for general health and longevity. Add a Tbsp. of brewer's yeast (half that for small dogs and cats). Every day or two, also sprinkle brewer's yeast on your pet's coat, working it in with your hands. Among the many herbal flea preparations that can be useful, I'm partial to Earth Animal's Herbal Internal Powder, a powdered mix of natural ingredients which includes garlic as well as alfalfa, wormwood, yellowdock and pennyroyal. Sprinkle the powder liberally into your pet's food; it smells so good you may want to sprinkle it into your own! (I do, especially when cooking pasta.) You can safely treat carpeting and bedding with boric acid powder (that is what eye wash is made from). It is not toxic...it dessicates (dehydrates) the bugs and they die. That is the active ingredient in many ant/roach powders...just make sure there are no other toxic ingredients added. FleaBusters markets a carpet powder (which Dr. G. also mentions in his book) that just contains boric acid as its active ingredient, but it is a bit pricier...a large jug (which has lasted me two years) is around $35. You sprinkle it on the carpeting and work it in with a brush and then vaccuum up any excess. One application lasts about a year. If you hire Flea Busters to come treat your home, they guarantee it to be flea free for a year, and will come back and re-treat at no charge if it isn't. When my daughter was living in S. Calif. she had FBers come treat her apartment and it was totally flea-free...of course her 3 cats did not go outside and she didn't have a dog. I have had good results with it even though I do have some cats who go outside in the daytime and a dog. In the two bedrooms where I have adoptable rescues and FeLV+ cats, respectively, that do not go out of their rooms, I do not have a flea problem. In the rest of the house, I've had to re-treat more often than once/year to keep them under control. While Dr. G's approach is to help his clients get their pets so healthy (through a healthy, natural diet, etc.) that they are resistant to fleas, he does not take a holier than thou approach to address an existing flea problem where a pet is suffering, and in regards to helping break the cycle of an existing flea infestation will advise his clients to choose a product containing citrus-based d-limonene, the herbal insecticide. One spray he personally uses is Quantum's Flea Tick Repellent which contains the herb erigeron (flea bane), as well as rose geranium, which is one of the effective herbal tick repellents. Only in very severe cases would he recommend the use of Front Line or Advantage, which he views as two of the more benign brands, but not without trepidation. Dr. G. also advises clients to have their
Re: question bout kittens...for MC
Dear Mary Christine: You surely get my vote for cat-mom this year! I would not worry too much about the liklihood of a healthy mom cat becoming postive from exposure to nursing a positive kitten, but her other kittens might be at some risk. You say the kittens are orphans...is it known how their mom died? Was it due to some accident (?) or, since the kits are positive she may have succumbed to FeLV which means the kittens were born carrying the virus and the liklihood they will remain positive is more likely. According to Dr. Pitcairn, cats are not infections and shedding the FeLV virus until they are in the latter stages of infection (Stage 4 and beyond) when it has infected the bone marrow. A positive IFA correlates well with stage 4 and beyond. An ELISA test is much more senstive and can indicate the very early stages of infection, so is not necessarily a good indicator that a cat will remain persistently viremic. Depending on whether or not these kittens already have the virus in their bone marrow, they may be able to clear the virus given immune support and a healthy diet...and milk from a healthy mom cat would certainly qualify in that regard. It is a difficult situation you are facing, to be sure. I think if I were in your shoes I would want to get the kittens IFA tested and if that is a positive result, I would not want to risk exposing the other presumably healthy kittens by putting them together. You might be able to manage it by allowing the positive kittens to nurse separately from the others, but that would still not provide for contact comfort in between nursings. I had two bottle babies, thrown in a dumpster before their eyes were open yet, and I had to feed one of them initially on an eye dropper until he gained enough strength to suck on a bottle. I carried them around in a baby pack next to my body and they slept in the crook of my arm at night. To this day (now 11 yrs. old) one of them thinks I am his mom and still wants to perch on my shoulder like a canary (ouch!). But I only had the two and you have a full house. I don't know how accepting your mom cats are, or how many kittens each one has, but you might be able to take one mom's kittens (if she only has a few) and rub the scent of another mom on each them and parcel them out with other moms, then put the two positives with that mom cat whose kittens are being fostered by other moms. I've never tried this, so have no idea if it is feasible. I suppose the most likely way would be to put your energies into getting the + kittens to nurse and add some immune support such as Transfer Factor to their formula to boost their immune function and maybe find a stuffed toy cat you can put a hot water bottle inside (and rub it with the scent of a mom cat) for them to snuggle with. If the kittens test IFA negative, I would celebrate and go ahead and see if one of the other mom cats will accept and nurse them. I would still supplement them with an immune booster such as Transfer Factor which will certainly not hurt them and might help them clear the virus which is evidently still in an earlier stage. You've taken on quite a challenge...bless you for trying to give these innocent baby kits a chance at life! Sally in San Jose
Re: Veterinary Questions...for Stephanie
Dear Stephanie: If you e-mail the info to me, I can pass it on to Dr. Dana Gleason the vet who started our local Spay/Neuter project for ferals...I've found her to be very helpful with my own questions about drugs and dosages in that she realizes we who do rescue ferals are not able to take these uncooperative (in most cases) patients to a regular vet and afford their fees. I might be able to get a confimation of appropriate dosage for the drugs from her. Or I can ask her if she would be OK with my giving her e-address to you, so you can ask her directly. Have you tried doing a computer search for info on the drugs in question? Another source of info would be a medical library, if there is a vet school anywhere near you. Like human doctors with their code of ethics which tends to close ranks and discourage doctors from helping you investigate possible abuse by one of their peers or get involved, many vets may have the same inclination. Have you requested a copy of TeeCee's records? Did you keep the empty or near-empty containers of the meds given to him? Do you just want to know, for your own peace of mind (or not)? I learned from my own sad experience with a Vet from Hell who forced me to allow her to euthanize a cat by threatening to have him seized by Animal Control if I did not (and of course every rescuer's worst nightmare is having AC come pay them a visit and count noses) that there is little recourse, legally, in dealing with a vet whose ethics leave much to be desired. Most states consider cats personal property, with a value limited to replacement cost so unless one is wealthy enough to afford an attorney's fees regardless of liklihood of recovery, or your pet is a TV star like Morris, it is a no go. If you are able to find out this vet did try to deliberately harm TeeCee, about all you can really do is file a complaint with the state veterinary medical board for review of the situation. Sally in San Jose
Re: Drugs given to TeeCee
Dear Stephanie: I am not usually able to get pics on my old and ailing computer, and don't know how accurately one could tell from a photo as to size of syringe, etc. Do the syringes have no markings on them as to how many cc are in them?? It seems odd for a syringe not to have a scale printed on it, but if not, I would try to get some syringes that do. Most syringes come in standard sizes and the ones most commonly used with cats are 1 ml, 3ml, and 6 ml. You could then line up the scale on the marked syringe with an unmarked one. Sally in San Jose
Re: Need advice - kittens...for Susan
Dear Susan: The fact the kittens tested a faint positive (an ELISA, right?) is probably an indication of exposure and some virus present (both the ELISA and IFA detect anitgen from replicating virus) but may still be an earlier stage of infection so there is a chance with good diet and immune support these kittens can clear the virus. A truly false positive on the ELISA would be for viral antigen to be detected when none was present. What is more likely, given the sensitivity of the ELISA test which can detect even minute amounts of antigen, is that faint positive results indicate an early stage of infection, and that cats/kittens who initially test postive, then later test negative, were able to clear the virus, or, the infection could have become latent. If the other cats in the foster household are healthy adults, I would not be very worried that the kittens may pass the virus to them, but be most concerned that the kittens get the best possible diet and immune support to help their immune system fight off the virus. Any further assaults, be it emotional, environmental or from anything the other cats may bring to the table, to their immune system should be minimized. A negative IFA at this point could confirm an infection has not progressed to the point of no return and there is still a good chance to clear it, but would also represent the significant stress of a blood draw. If one has the resources, a good strategy is to ask the vet or tech to draw enough blood initially so that if the ELISA result is positive, then an IFA can then be run to confim it as either stage 4 or beyond, or still in stage 1-3. My advice would be to transition those kittens to a raw, natural diet (or the best commercial food possible such as Wellness or Innova, etc.) with good immune support supplementation such as Transfer Factor, Vit. C, CoQ10, etc. and try to keep their lives as stress-free as possible, which would include no, or mininal, vaccines. Do keep them indoors and away from any cats who go outdoors that may bring unwanted pathogens to bear. I would then retest them in 45-60 days. Here's hoping... Sally in San Jose
Re: HELP...for Michelle L.
Dear Michelle L.: Haven't been onlist for a while due to computer problems and just getting to (trying to, anyhow) a ton of (900+) e-messages. Have you considered having Bramble evaluated by an accupuncturist to see if that might help mediate or clarify his neurological problems?? I don't have direct experience with seizures, but it just seems to make common sense that if you have some sort of neurlogical short-circuiting, making sure the electrical flow in all a critter's meridians is not blocked might be in order. Accupuncture might be able to restore his neurological balance, if that is the case. If this all started after Bramble was treated with a spot-on flea product (or was that another cat and I'm confused?) or due to any drugs he's been given, something that would address detoxification might be helpful. I would suggest contacting a vet who is well-versed in homeopathy and other alternative healing strategies. I don't think giving him more drugs to simply suppress symptoms without addressing the underlying cause is the way to go. And, since you are feeling conflicted about whether or not to try and keep treating Bramble or help him across to the other side, have you considered talking to him via an animal communicator to ask Bramble how he feels about his condition and whether or not he thinks he can get well and wants to keep trying? I make it a point to ask my cats how they feel about their condition when they seem to be failing, or if I am dealing with a puzzling situation for which there seems to be no logical or obvious solution. I've found my cats to be very aware and helpful. There are some animal communicators who in addition to being able to communicate telepathically, are also medically intuitive and/or able to do energy work telepathically, which I have found to be very helpful on more than one occasion, especially in helping one of my crashing FeLV+ furbabies cross over gently and peacefully on their own, as they requested. I've found such communication to be very helpful when vets could give me no idea what was going on and simply wanted to run a battery of expensive diagnostics using the shotgun approach. I was able to keep an old horse going for four years after the vets said there is nothing they could do to help her, with dietary modification/herbs and the help of a very gifted equine animal communicator. If you would like the name of an AC I've used with good results for talking to my cats, I would be happy to send that info to you. Sally in San Jose
Re: Bones Bramble...for Michelle L.
Dear Michelle L.: You are so lucky to live where you can get the VO (feline-specific interferon)...is it as expensive in England as it is here? I am curious as to why you would want to obtain interferon-alpha (human type) when you can get the VO? I did not find the I-a to be of any benefit for either of my first two FeLV+ kittys...I lost one at 8 mos. to nonregenerative anemia and one at 16 mos. to what was probably lymphoma in her lungs. With the low dose usually prescribed, there is little liklihood of antibodies developing, but research has not shown it to be of any significant benefit at such a low dose. It may be MUCH cheaper than the VO, but even so, I found it to be a waste of $$, though some listmembers seem to think their cats do better when they are on it than off. In dealing with FeLV, a one size its all approach does not apply and each individual cat's immune response seems to vary. The I-a may have some benefit as a mild immune booster for a non-symptomatic cat, but I found it had no value whatsover in dealing with a cat who has developed significant symptoms and is crashing, which indicates the virus has mutated to one of its more virulent forms. At that point, there really is nothing that can turn the tide, only stem it somewhat, though the VO seems to have snatched Nina's Gracie back from the brink more than once, though was unable to save her sister Jazz. What I have found to be more beneficial as an immune booster is Transfer Factor. I have two FeLV+ cats, a brother/sister, now two years old, who remain stable and non-symptomatic and who have been on this type of immune support since they tested positive the second time at six months. I rescued a kitten last July who tested positive at six weeks and was going to be PTS. He came to me with runny eyes and horrid diarrhea, but his symptoms cleared after about 10 days on TF and a homeopathic remedy for the diarrhea. I kept him on the same regimen as the other two postives (raw-based diet and immune support with TF and Oli-Vet (olive leaf extract) and when he was neutered at 6 mos., he retested NEGATIVE. He is now a year old and in glowing good health with a personality that is larger than life. I've had two older cats apparently seroconvert from postive to negative status given a good diet and immune support, but Purrki is my first miracle baby. My most notable non-FeLV related success with the TF was in successfully nursing a 10-wk. old kitten through panleukopenia after the vet said she had virtually no chance to survive unless hospitalized and put on an IV. I could not afford to do that and if she had so little chance, I did not want her to die alone in a hospital cage, so took her home to do whatever I could, myself. She had been started on TF at the first sign of a temp, several days before the obvious symptoms of the P-virus, and I really think it was a deciding factor. I kept her on the TF and an abx was added to help fight off opportunistic bacterial infection due to degradation of the gut lining, syringe-fed her, gave her subQ fluids and kept her warm. Her vomiting stopped the second day and the putrid diarrhea began, but it never reached that awful, bloody sort so typical of the end-stage of the disease. My brave little Purrsia made a complete recovery from the dread P-virus, only to crash and be taken out 4 1/2 mos. later by FeLV-related nonregenerative anemia, which she had tested negative for previously. The VO was not then available to us here. Bless you for rescuing Bramble, Buddy and Minstrel from the less than optimum situation they were in, despite their + status. I wish you the best in finding what will work best to keep them stable. Sally in San Jose
Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L.
Dear Michelle L.: There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat who is FIV+ or FeLV+. Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immune system and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. There is much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com, or I would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature of Animal Healing. Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of the same virus. The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to provide them with the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support and protect them from exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due to emotional challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogens that their immune system cannot withstand. Other cats are really more of a threat to the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa. I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 who turned out to be FeLV+. The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to another causes significant immune suppression, but little else. It is through recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers and FeLV-A+C that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia. In the worse case scenario it is possible for both subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C. At present the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known. This explains why some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while others crash and succumb early on. Have you found out there is a similar progression for cats who are FIV+? In general, they seem to have a better prognosis for long-term survival than do FeLV+ cats and I have always wondered if there is any research out there to suggest why this may be the case. I also wonder if the concept of viral load is a pertinent one with FIV and FeLV, as it is where corona viruses like Panleukopenia and FIP are concerned. Since your three cats have already been together long-term, unless they are hostile toward each other and prone to fighting, I would not separate them but just keep the stress in their lives as minimal as possible, provide a healthy natural diet with immune support and supplements to address any symptoms they may have. And, of course, LOVE them one day at a time. I would NOT vaccinate them for FeLV or FIV, respectively. The FeLV vaccine has been implicated in causing a latent infection to become an active one. Most holistic vets whose books I've read do not consider the FIV vaccine to be safe, either. Sally in San Jose
Re: AC willing to monitor list - James
On behalf of all the FeLV+ furkids who may be trying to say something, but whose humans are on a different wavelength and wondering, I think it would be a purrfectly pawsome idea!!! Sally in San Jose
Re: emergency advice on starved cat needed
Dear Jenn: Do you have a dripbag of LRS and are you able to give her subQ fluids? If not, then use Pedialyte (fluid w/electrolytes for babies, the non-flavored sort) available at most supermarkets and give her fluids orally with a syringe, a little (5-10 ml) at a time every hour or so. Give her small amounts of food, more often, to start with and your Nutrical mix or NC with some strained baby meat and Pedialyte would be OK. The Nutrical has sugar in it for energy as well as B-vites and iron. If she is starving you don't want to overwhelm the GI tract with a large amount of food at one time right away. The condition cats get who don't eat (hepatic lipidosis) is more apt to occur with a cat who is obese/overweight than one who has been starved over time, but I've never had to deal with that so can't really offer insight based on experience. Other listmembers can better advise you about that condition. Basically, keep her warm, keep her hydrated and give her small amounts of food more often. Any type of immune support you have available (Vit. C, Transfer Factor, olive leaf extract, etc. would also be helpful). I would take her to a vet for evaluation as soon as you can get a regular appointment. If you know anyone who is knowledgeable about homeopathy, there may be some remedies that would be helpful as well. Try posting on Holisticat.com...I am a listemember and will check in later on after I finish feeding my furkids and will let you know if I get any helpful feedback. Bless you for trying to help this unfortunate furbaby. I'll be praying she will respond to your care, turn out to be FIV/FeLV negative and able to bounce back. Sally in San Jose
Re: Carolina to Vet or Not?
Dear Sharon: Don't panic. This could just be a reaction to something Carolina ate, or it could just be a further vaccine-related reaction. What vaccine was she given? Is Carolina running a temp? If there are any health food stores in your area, you could try getting some Thuja, dissolve a pellet in a small amount of water and syringe it in the corner of her mouth. If she is still trying to clear any toxicity from her body related to the vaccine, this might help and it won't hurt. If she continues to vomit, or is running a significant fever, refuses to eat and becomes depressed or lethargic then it would be wise to consult with a vet. Sometimes cats will vomit small amounts of fluid/food in trying to get rid of hair balls as well. The fact these symptoms have appeared so soon after being vaccinated does tend to make one suspect it is a reaction to the vaccine. Had Carolina ever been given this particular vaccine previously? Has she had vaccines in the past and reacted? ...or not? Is she FeLV+? I would not risk giving any vaccines to an FeLV+ cat...such a stress to the immune system has been known to trigger a latent infection into an active one. I hope it may prove to be a minor gastric upset. If she tried to eat some plant matter this could be the reason, or an indication she was seeking relief from something irritating her gut. I don't know if baby's breath is toxic to cats or not. It must be a difficult time for you being still emotionally traumatized from the loss of your mom and afraid that the other shoe will drop and something may happen to other loved ones. I wish I could think of some words that could ease your anxiety. Since I became involved with FeLV+ kittys and lost my first two precious angels, every time one of the furkids sneezes or their appetite is off a bit, I get this big knot in my gut and a feeling of dread, wondering if someone is going to crash. And even before that, after any sort of a crisis or when things weren't going smoothly, I would sometimes wake up and wonder what will go wrong TODAY? It isn't easy, but try to think calming, positive thoughts, especially where Carolina is concerned. We can surround ourselves with so much negative energy it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Try to imagine your mom's spirit being there with you to give you strength and try not to imagine the worst happening. Try to think of Carolina as strong and completely well. Hopefully she will pick up on your thoughts and that will help her get through this crisis, whatever it is. Keeping you and Carolina in my thoughts and prayers... Sally in San Jose
Re: relative merits of Doxy and Clavamox?
I always ask a vet WHY they choose a particular medication for one of my furkids and I get better responses from some than others. I also look up medication in the Merck manual or an online source to find out what is in it (if I don't already know) and what it is recommended for. One vet I use for routine things (because his fees are more reasonable than most others in this area) is not a high tech vet but has good instincts based on experience and his approach to the use of abx is to start with the one most specific to a particular condition, if possible, and if that doesn't work then go for one that is more broad-specturm and one of the bigger guns in the abx arsenal such as Baytril. His opinion is that if you always start with the biggest gun, if resistance becomes an issue you have no better options. If Amoxicillan (relative of penicillan) or Clavamox (combo of ) don't work, then try something like Baytril or Zeniquin (a newer relative of Baytril). Sometimes if a condition seems serious and what is going on is not clear, he'll start with a bigger gun. Last year I had a kitty who was presenting with a high fever and no other symptoms...his first choice was Baytril and when that didn't bring down the fever, he prescribed something called Delta Albaplex, which I'd never heard of before. The fever was gone in 2 days after that. I looked it up and DA is a combo of an abx (can't remember which one offhand) and a steroid. I've never had to use Doxycycline yet, so haven't looked it up, but it seems to be more specific in what it targets than Clavamox. For one thing, Doxy is prescribed for the blood parasite hemobartonella and seems to be more powerful in its action than Clavamox or Amoxicillan. But it can have a caustic effect on mucous membranes and administering it is more problematic. I guess the idea is to kill whatever bacteria may be the culprit without OVERkilling. If there is a choice that can be made, I will opt for the one with the least gnarly taste and fewest possible side-effects. Sally in San Jose
Re: Brissle crashing again, bloodwork looks grim.
Dear Kyle: So sorry to hear that Brissle is crashing again. Please don't beat yourself up what-iffing. At this point, what she has been eating and whether or not she got Pet Tinic or some other supplements on a daily basis is a minor consideration. Once an FeLV+ kitty crashes and has developed lymphoma/other cancers and/or non-regenerative anemia, this is indicative that the FeLV virus has recombined with a cat's DNA and mutated to one of its more virlent subgroups and there is, so far, no known treatment that can reverse this process. Some treatments, in some cats, seem to slow it down and buy a bit of time, but it is no longer a question of if but rather WHEN the cat will lose his/her battle. You have been trying to do the best you can to help Brissle, but it can reach a point when it is out of our hands. I have yet to find any research literature or other evidence of a cat being able to recover from FeLV and serconvert once the virus has infected the bone marrow, which occurs in stage 4 of the infectious process. Fortunately, most healthy, adult cats are resistant to infection and even up to stage 3 of the infectious process can clear the virus. Once the virus infects the bone marrow in stage 4, however, a cat will remain persistently viremic for the rest of his/her life. Some cats can remain stable at this stage indefinitely. Putting stable, persistently FeLV+ cats on a healthy, natural diet with immune support supps, keeping them indoors and preventing exposure to strange cats who may carry disease or other pathogens and/or environmental toxins and mimimizing any type of stress in their lives seems to be helpful in this regard. But it still is no guarantee. What it is that triggers mutation of the virus in some cats has not been definitively established. It is not an inevitable, by any means. The inherent strength of each cat's immune system, both before and after infection, is one factor, which must be assumed to have a largely genetic basis. Various types of physical and emotional stress, which can have a negative effect on immune function, also seem to be factors. Vaccines, for example, have been known to trigger a latent FeLV infection into an active one. If I remember correctly, you didn't even know Brissle was FeLV+ until she initially crashed, and that is often the case...by the time you know there is a problem, your best chance to effect a more positive outcome through supportive measures has, sadly, already passed. As to why a transfusion can create such a dramatically positive effect for some cats, as it did for Brissle, is that it temporarily recharges the bloodstream with RBC capable of carrying life-supporting oxygen. It can also play a role in temporarily reducing the viral load. Severe anemia has a devastating effect on the body and all its organs. The RBC are the ones which supply life-supporting oxygen to all bodily tissues. When the bone marrow is trashed and can no longer continue to make sufficient new RBC to replace those being broken down by normal bodily processes, all tissues suffer and are running on near empty, so to speak. As anemia gets progressively worse, body tissues literally suffocate and begin to die. And while a transfusion provides a supply of fresh RBC, they don't last forever and as they die off the body once again becomes oxygen-depeleted if the bone marrow is not making enough healthy new ones to take their place. It could be that initially, Brissle's anemia was not totally non-regenerative and given the boost of the first transfusion, her body was strong enough to sustain itself for a while and was still able to make some new RBC. It would seem now, however, from her most recent blood results that Brissle's condition is not just a simple matter of whether or not her bone marrow is able to make new RBC, but the RBC being made (as well as other blood factors) are abnormal and not able to mature and be fully functional. The commentary from the lab results found it to be consistent with a type of leukemia, i. e. erythroleukemia? This is a new one for me. I will be anxious to learn what you find out. Blood transfusions can provide a very positive boost sometimes and even jump-start weakened bone marrow that is still functioning. Other times, for some cats, not even a blood transfusion can overcome the negative effects the virus is having. BT's are not a cure for destroyed bone marrow, merely a treatment which can buy some crashing FeLV+ cats a bit more time. As expensive as it is, and considering the stress involved with anesthesia (which is enough to overwhelm some cats and take them out), it doesn't seem that BT's are something one can realistically continue to do on a regular, onging basis. I've heard other list members say their vets didn't recommend repeated transfusions as a viable option, that a positive result was less likely with successive BT's, but no
Re: o/t blockage question
Dear Kerry: I remember reading in one of my vet books that sometimes, in extreme cases, a male kitty needs to have his plumbing surgically restructured to make the urethral opening bigger if he becomes repeatedly blocked and neither dietary modification nor any other type of therapy seems to be helping to correct the problem. Personally, I've never known anyone who had to resort to this type of drastic solution for dealing with UTI's in a male cat. I've only had one male cat who ever got blocked and had to go to the vet to be catheterized and unplugged. Since I put my cats on a raw-based diet, I've not had any more urinary problems with male or female kittys. Did the kitty in question survive the pecker-otomy and did it solve his problem in getting blocked?? Did they suggest/try any dietary modification to see if that would help before subjecting this kitty to such drastic surgery? It does seem extreme to me. Sally in San Jose
Re: Hunters
I was absolutely astounded by what Tamara had to say about the case of the woman being shot by an idiot of a hunter at a bus top and the hunter was not held accountable because of the color of the woman's clothing. I do not remember ever reading about that case and can't believe the hunter was not held accountable for his irresponsible actions. Hitting and killing someone with a motor vehicle is manslaughter, and an automobile is not a weapon intended for killing, as is a gun. It would seem some prosecutor was woefully inept, to say the least. I surely would like to read what legal points and authorities were involved in that case. I abhor the fact that animals are hunted and killed, period, but I remember that both my father and brother hunted deer now and then and my dearest friend in the world who was my former riding partner for some years before he passed away at age 80, had been an avid hunter in his younger days. He had grown up in Minnesota, but I think he did most of his hunting after moving to S. Calif. after WWII and would make yearly treks with his horse and mules up into Utah and Idaho. I would have to say that they were all responsible hunters who were skilled in the use of firearms and did not hunt wantonly and used the meat of whatever they did manage to kill. As to whether the idiots who shoot mothers at bus stops and will shoot at just about anything that moves are in the majority or even just a significant percentage of those who hunt, I have no idea...does any organization keep a record of those killed in hunting accidents by incompetent hunters, or does some animal welfare group keep statistics on other animals inadvertantly killed by hunters?? I do know my dear friend was an extremely responsible person where hunting was concerned and it was more for the experience of spending a week or 10 days out in the wilderness with his horse and enjoying the companionship of friends that he enjoyed moreso than hunting an animal to kill. He always took his camera, as well, and had books full of lovely shots of scenery and wildlife and some handsome trophy heads and or antlers on the wall of his office and he could remember the trip he made where each one had been hunted. He had a great respect for animals and the critters he hunted, almost the way the Native American hunters of yore are said to have said a prayer for an animal before they killed it to thank it for giving its life for their sustenance. As much as I've always hated the idea of animals being killed, I did have respect for my friend's love for hunting the way he approached it. On our weekly day-long trail rides that we made with our horses in the 5-6 years before he died, he would amuse me to no end with stories about the ignorant greenhorn city slickers who sometimes were among their group of hunters. Mostly it was tales about their stupidity in not being properly prepared for an outing in the wilderness or not knowing how to deal with the horses/mules, outdoor cooking mishaps, packing faux pas, encounters with skunks or porcupines and whatnot, but I do remember how he told me on more than one occasion that he had to track down and kill a deer or elk to spare it a slow, agonizing death because some other inept hunter had merely wounded it badly and it had taken flight. It would surely be great if before a hunting license was issued, a person had to demonstrate that he/she had a decent level of proficiency with firearms and had been required to undergo some sort of program to prove they could recognize their intended prey and were aware of what responsibility in hunting with a dangerous weapon is. Maybe some sort of computer game type test could be devised? And just as it is illegal to drive a car or operate a boat under the influence of alcohol, it should be a punishable offense to go hunting with a gun and drink alcohol at the same time. When I still lived in a rural area in Washington state, almost every year there were instances of farm animals (would you believe white-faced, hornless beef cattle and even black/white spotted dairy cows) and horses out in pasture being shot by idiot hunters. If such acts were witnessed, they were fined for the destruction of personal property, but few such acts were ever witnessed. I don't remember a case of a hunter inadvertantly killing another human other than an occasional hunter who was not wearing one of those orange or bright yellow vests. In the cases of one hunter shooting another, they were prosecuted for manslaughter or wrongful death and found guilty, I believe. Candidates for the Darwin Award, for sure...though, sadly, the shooter is the one who should be removed from the gene pool rather than the vestless prey, though I suppose anyone who would go out hunting in the woods dressed in anything remotely the same color as a game animal is also lacking in common sense, to say the least. I shudder
Re: Bad Shelters/Rescue Orgs (Was Wisconsin cat hunting)
What Kerry and Tamara had to say about disreputable vet clinics or rescue orgs they have come in contact with was appalling. I can't believe that some major group like PETA or the National Humane Society who have significant funding and legal staff would not be interested in such cases. I do know from my own sad experience with a Vet-from-Hell that recourse through legal process is limited because in most states pets are not considered anything more than personal property so any monetary recompense is for replacement value only and unless you have some way of establishing extraordinary value for an animal, as with a race horse who has won millions in purses, or a show dog/cat with demonstrable value as a breeding animal, what kind of value does a pet have?...pretty much only what you paid to adopt it from a shelter or buy it from a breeder. Emotional damages are not allowed. The legal costs will always be so much greater that there is no point in litigation unless you have a very deep wallet and the principle involved is as dear to you as your pet was. And I suppose with homeless pets in a shelter or with a rescue group, there is no individual owner to fight on their behalf, so there is even less recourse unless some sort of suit can be made against a vet/group for cruelty or fraud or whatever in a general sense, but someone has to file the suit and pay the legal costs. I applaud Tamara and the others who did what they could to bring about public awareness regarding the DAR group. Getting evidence and using that to get media attention as well as picketing are just about our only recourse. Unfortunately, most such groups realize that bad press will not be ongoing and over time such things are forgotten. If a group is soliciting funds on a national level, a local protest will not usually affect their overall ability to endure. In dealing with such situations, it takes persistence...outenduring your opposition is a tactic used with good results by the offending party when it comes to citizen groups trying to take on a cause against some governmental body or organization with paid staff, not just concerned volunteers, and a much bigger budget. Case in point (though it doesn't relate to animal rights causes) is that of my mom's efforts to watchdog the Shoreline Protection Act she helped to draft in N.W. Washington state some years ago. After its protections became law, the greedy developers were always trying to circumvent its provisions so they could build in places they shouldn't, in ways they shouldn't (for the good of the environment) and unless citizens were ever vigilant week after week, year after year, ways were inevitably found to get around it. To get their variances through without opposition, they would publish the required notice in some tiny little newspaper on one of the San Juan Islands or elsewhere that hardly anyone read, so no one would know what was coming down until it was too late. Sure, the citizen's groups could appeal, but that requires money and attorneys and who has the deeper pocket? My mom was one of very few who kept her eye on the ball, and put up more than a few dollars of her own money in court filing fees, not just during the initial uproar but over time so the worst efforts could be stopped in the initial stages when it was less costly to do so. Even so, the intent of the Shoreline Act has been seriously eroded over time. When there is a big uproar about something, many people may be encouraged to get involved...for a while. But most people get caught up in their own lives and over time, the heat of an uproar or unjustness of an incident fades and life goes on, as usual. If such a horrid rescue group is still in business and defrauding would-be benefactors of innocent animals, it will take some sort of ongoing effort with continual picketing (not necessarily, en masse) and repeated complaints to the media so that the problem won't just go away and be forgotten. If the protest and media attention goes on long enough, perhaps their reputation may be so degraded they will cease to exist. It might help to bring this group's abuses to the attention of some celebrities who champion animal rights or to a group with enough clout (PETA??) to really make a difference. By the way, do you know where the headquarters of this organization is located and is it still in business? Seems like there should be a wachdog group in every state like a Better Business Bureau for vet hospitals and animal welfare organizations, or some sort of website where such complaints can be aired with an archive for people to consult before they donate to an organization, or patronize a particular clinic. But then comes the problem of verifying which complaints are valid and which ones are not. I think most states have a state Veterinary Medical Board, and that is the venue for airing complaints against a
Re: o/t bad people
Dear Kerry: Go for it! By any chance was your vet tech friend able to get the names/addresses or phone nos. for some of the clients whose animals were abused? If there are several, a class action suit might be an optioin. Did your vet tech friend contact the State Veterinary Medical Board?? Was that the appropriate authorities she mentioned? Here's hoping your interviewing the vet tech and recording it will provide enough material to interest the media. Was she able to get some tangible proof while working there? Some years ago, I remember more than one case where PETA was instrumental in getting action brought against labs who use animals for test subjects and inflict cruelty on them...they sent a person undercover to work at the labs and collect evidence. With the current proliferation of electronic gadgets, it should be even easier now to get evidence by having a small hidden camera with microphone hidden somewhere and if someone is really computer savvy, relevant records could be obtained from the computer system as most modern clinics now use computers. Wonder if you could find another vet tech brave enough to get a job there and do some snooping. Do let us know if anyone in the media is willing to pick up the ball and put it into play. Sally in San Jose
Re: Hunters
I can't imagine what the legal reasoning would be that a jury could use to acquit. First time or not, we all know that guns are meant to kill...this guy was, after all out to kill a deer, right? So if this idiot was proven to be the one who fired the gun, and it could be established the bullet that killed the woman was fired from that gun, what more is there to consider? A woman is dead and that is wrongful death or manslaughter any way you look at it. It may not have been premeditated (with regards to killing that particular woman), so doesn't qualify as murder, but I can't believe there wasn't a public outcry of some sort in protest. There was much less direct evidence to convict Scott Peterson of murdering his wife, and he is sitting on death row. Go figure! Geez...I guess if you live in the woods where there are deer, or near a lake that is frequented by ducks in hunting season, you are no better off than someone who lives in Watts or East L.A. where drive-by shootings occur on a regular basis. There is much lip service paid to our constitutional right to bear arms by groups like the NRA, but what about the responsibility to do so with great care. Freedom exercised without responsibility can be dangerous. Somehow I don't think what our founding fathers had in mind was open season on innocent bystanders. Sally in San Jose
Re: interferon
When I got the intereron alpha for my first FeLV+ kitty, I was told not to give it with food, that it needs to be absorbed by the mucous membranes in the mouth rather than taken into the GI tract where stomach acid will break it down. If you can't give it to a cat by syringe (such as with a feral) give it in a very small amount of tuna juice...it is pretty much tasteless to my human tongue, so shouldn't need much of some sort of tasty juice to get the job done. At the small 1 ml dose, the chance of a cat developing antibodies to the IA are very slim. That is a more likely occurrence when it is given in much larger doses, as has been the case in research settings. But it also to be nil to minimally effective at the lower dosage. I did not notice any benefit when I gave it to either of my first two FeLV+ cats...one had non-regenerative anemia and was gone in 16 days; the second one crashed and passed in 14 days due to what was probably lymphoma in her lungs. Others have observed, however, that their cats appeared to feel better the 7 days their cats were on as when their cats were off. It seems to be of some effectiveness with some cats as a maintenance immune booster, but I have not come across any instance when it had any effect when an FeLV+ cat was crashing. I have had better results with Transfer Factor as a maintenance immune booster and have had three cats, two adults and one kitten, who have apparently seroconverted with such therapy, though to be sure that the infections have not merely become latent, I would need to do bone marrow biopsies which I cannot afrord to do at this point, nor do I want to put these cats through such stress. I am assuming there is a possibility they may still be latently positive and keeping them on immune support. Transfer Factor can be given with food and is not broken down by acid in the stomach. Sally Foster
Re: Imperfection of Vets
Dear Gloria: You are being too kind when you say that some vets are just more imperfect than others, or is this meant as a sarcastic understatement? I am still suffering a year later due to that Vet-from-Hell who forced me into allowing her to euthanize a geriatric kitty of mine I had taken for a blood panel (who when asked told me he wanted to go home to die at a time of his own choosing through an AC) by threatening to call Animal Control to have him seized for that purpose. And then, after I sacrificed Caramel because of the unknown consequences to the rest of my rescues should Animal Control come knocking on my door, she still called then and sent them to my home and I lived on pins and needs worrying for months afterwards. Perhaps some of you remember my anguished posts from Feb-March '04? Some vets are far more than merely imperfect! Sally in San Jose
Re: anyone have any room or any suggestions?
First of all I would ask if Mustache's FeLV status has been confirmed with an IFA test which would indicate whether or not he is l ikely to remain persistently viremic. Secondly, I would adavise the person who is caring for Mustache NOT to give him any vaccinations...this will only be an assault on his immune system that he may not be able to withstand. Repeated vaccination with combo vaccines is not good for healthy cats and there is no point in giving vaccines to a cat who is immunocompromised. The best thing to do for cats who have a compromised immune system it to keep them indoors and away from cats who may go outside and bring pathogens in to threaten their immune system, keep all types of stress to a minmimum and feed them a healthy diet with immune support. Unless the shelter allows the cats to run freely in groups, the other cats at the shelter are at no risk due to Mustache, while he would be at risk from exposure to them. The FeLV virus is not airborne and transmission other than from repeated, direct contact wirh a cat in stage 4-6 who is actively shedding the virus is highly unlikely as long as reasonably good hygiene (washing hands, food bowls, etc.) is practiced. It seems that whoever is caring for Mustache needs to learn more about FeLV and caring for a cat who is immunocompromised so that he/she can better advice potential adopters. Is there anyone on this list in their area who might be able to help in that regard. If people were better educated about FeLV, it might be easier to find foster homes and/or people willing to adopt them. Sally in San Jose
Re: Additional information for those interested in Virbagen Feline Omega Inte...
Dear Kyle: Seroconversion means that the cat has cleared the virus and is no longer infected with it. That is the best possible news for a cat that was FeLV+. Sally in San Jose
Re: Feline Interferon
Dear Michelle: How thoughtful of you to share some of your VO with Kyle. Is it helping? Stockpiling the stuff is a good strategy, would that I could afford to do so. For now it is all I can do just to afford the immune-boosting supplements. Now if I could win that pie in the sky lottery (but can't afford to buy tickets for that, either) I could buy stock in the company, or maybe bribe someone in the FDA. I keep hoping and praying if and when my two remaining positives may need some, I will be able to afford it and one of you less financially challenged listmembers may have some on hand to spare that I could buy. They really need to do some more studies to determine if this is a reliable treatment for helping an FeLV+ cat in stage 1-4 to seroconvert. And what it can and can't do to reliably benefit those cats who are already stage 5 and persistently viremic, or stage 6 and crashing. I've been told it IS possible to determine which subgroup of virus cats are infected with, but this is only germane in a research setting. And it is possible using the ELISA and IFA tests to determine which cats are still in the very early stages of infection or already have it settled in their bone marrow. Do you think we could find someone at a vet institution who would be interested in monitoring some home trials? Lord knows we have an ample supply of study candidates on this list. I don't suppose the company would be willing to provide the VO at a reduced cost, by any chance? Dream on. lSally in San Jose
Re: Feral cat book...to the Lottery
Dear Hideyo: I hear you loud and clear. If I ever had any extra dollars to spend, it sure would be nice to do more than just dream about winning the lottery. When I think about all the good things I could do to help improve the lot of critters in this world...Oh, wouldn't it be loverly? And then when you read about what most people who win do with all the money and it makes you sick. Buying cars and boats and vacations and expensive homes and the like. Not so different than what far too many people/celebrities who accumulate great wealth do with their bounty...conspicuous over-consumption. Which is why I am always very impressed with those who do use some of their wealth to support worthy causes. But I've found it often isn't the wealthiest who are the most generous (comparitively) but those who have little to give, yet still give of themselves and their limited $-resources with all the generosity a caring heart can manage. It is one of the things that makes me question if we do have a creator up there who is looking out for us and pulling the strings. If that IS the case, I don't have a lot of respect for the way He/She is managing things down here. If it were up to me, I would make sure that the lucky ones to win those lotteries were people who would do the most good with it, and I sure wouldn't allow innocent children and critters to suffer the way they so often do. So, I am more inclined to see life as a big crap shoot in which Shit Happens! and you just have to deal with whatever comes your way and try to keep smiling, somehow. Being a good and kind and loving person (or the opposite) really doesn't have much to do with the cards you are dealt. The only real choice we have is how we choose to play whatever cards we get dealt. We can cry about it and complain or we can make the best of it that we are able. I'd like to see a game show Who DESERVES to Win a Million Dollars. Maybe people could write in and tell what they would do if they were able to win a million dollars and those who had the most noble causes or worthy ideas would be given a chance to play and win. Fat chance though, when you consider that so many in our society are more interested in what happens to the glamorous celebrities and the death of someone like Princess Diana (not that Diana didn't attempt to do some good in the world) gains more attention than Mother Theresa, who died about the same time. Movie and sports stars make huge salaries for entertaining us, yet those who make far more important contributions to our society, like teachers, put in far more hours for salaries that are a pittance, by comparison. And then there are those stupid reality shows where people compete to win a million dollars and are rewarded for being conniving and ruthless instead of for the real skills that make survival in a REAL situation most meaningful...ingenuity, cooperation and a willingness to help others, not just yourself. You, Hideyo, are definitely of those who DESERVES to win a million dollars. Maybe what rescue groups need to do is start a lottery pool to shorten the odds some. Though I understand one has a better chance of beting struck by lightening than of winning a lottery. Anyhow...Dream on, and keep loving those feral cats and doing for them what no one else seems inclined to do. Even if we can't help them in big ways with a million dollars, we can help and save them, one deserving kitty soul at a time. By the way, are you aware that Newman's Own Organics (run by actor Paul Newman's youngest daughter, Nell) has come out with a line of healthy organic pet foods and all the profits, after taxes, are donated to animal welfare causes? Her father started Newman's Own some years ago to market salad dressing and pasta sauce (to start with) from his own private family recipes and all the profits are donated to education. He is only one of two celebrities I've ever met in person (the other is Bo Derek who breeds Andalusian horses and is also devoted to animal welfare causes). In 1964, when I was still in high school, I went to the U.S. Pony Club National Rally (though I could not afford to take my own horse and compete) which was hosted by the club of my pen pal and held in Westport, CT. My pen pal, Star, sometimes babysat for a family that lived across the road from the Newmans, who live in Greenwich which is next to Westport. Nell Newman was about 4-5 years old then and would sometimes play with the little girl my pen pal babysat. We ended up taking Nell and the other little girl with us to the New York World's Fair while I was visiting and when we took her home, I go to meet her father, who was barbecuing in the back yard -- yes, his eyes are really that blue! That she would grow up to spin off an organic pet food company from her father's charitable food business puts she and her father among the wealthy celebs that I do admire. Love those
Re: Off topic - rescuing feral
Dear Hideyo: You really have yourself a can of worms there, don't you? I have a friend here in San Jose who is faced with a similar problem of feral cats proliferating around the company she works for...fortunately a pack of marauding dogs is not also part of the problem. Because of your fear of losing your job, which is very real, you have to be very careful. If you know of anyone in your area with an animal welfare group who could speak to the management on behalf of the cats so you don't have to be directly involved, it might help. They need to be enlightened about feral cats and how to deal with them humanely. I will redouble my efforts to get a copy of the info from the SF Humane Society...they may even have a web site. They have info to support the fact that just trapping and removing the existing cats is not going to solve the problem in the long run...as soon as those cats are removed, others will move into the territory and the best solution is for an aggressive TNR program to spay/neuter the cats so they won't continue to reproduce and the population will then stabilize and gradually reduce though attrition. Cats will control any rodent populations in the area as well. Perhaps if they will listen and learn and understand there is a reasonable solution, they will be less antagonistic. One can only hope. But, if the company won't listen to such an approach, then perhaps this person can at least get permission to com in to trap and remove the cats, humanely. Is there some other, safer, area these cats could be released after they are S/N?? The dogs are far more of a problem than the cats. And this needs to be pointed out to the company's management, as well. Marauding dogs are much more of a danger to humans (to say nothing of the poor cats) and unless there is a dog rescue group willing to get involved, you will probably have to contact Animal Control. It will be hard for you to realistically trap the cats with dogs running around loose to complicate things. I do hope you can enlist the support and assistance of others in your area to address the situation. See if you can find the e-addresses for other rescue groups (sometimes Animal Control will have a referral list) in your area and contact them and perhaps you will find others there with sympathetic hearts and a sense of responsibility who will help, so you don't have to jeopardize your livlihood to help these unfortunate cats. By any chance are there any celebrities or people in the news media in your area who are animal lovers and might lend their clout to your cause?? In S. Calif. there is an animal welfare group called Actors and Others for Animals...I don't know if they might be able to help you in any way or not. I had their phone no. at one time...will see if I can find it. You might be able to get it (or numbers of other rescue groups in New Mexico) by doing a coputer search. Bless you for caring so much, Hideyo. I wish I were close enough to be of some real help. Feral cats may never have the benefit of a loving home and human copanionship and protection, but their lives deserve consideration and they should not be treated like unwanted trash. They didn't get to be where they are on their own...ultimately it was irresponsible humans who created their plight. I do hope you will be able to find others who are able to help you resolve this unfortunate situation without losing your job. Sally in San Jose
Re: Feral cat book
Hey Nina... I don't call my rescue efforts Fantastic, Friendly, Formerly Feral Felines for no reason. I hope I can borrow the book after you get through reading it! Thanks for mentioning it Hideyo. Sally in San Jose
Re: how to best sterilize a kitty condo?
Dear Kerry: Wow...that is a good question. How about a steam cleaner, like they use on car engines? That certainly ought to be hot enough to kill anything. And maybe when it is dry you can dust it with some boric acid powder (which is non-toxic...add water and it makes eye wash) to kill any fleas. Sally in San Jose
Re: Loki Advice: fleas, throwing up
Dear Steve: I would guess it was a hairball problem, then, and hopefully if Loki has been able t cough it up, finally, he will go back to eating normally. Most of my kittys manage to cough up hairballs when they need to without a lot of extraneous vomiting, but I do have one cat, not a longhair, either, who before he can get them up often has several days of digestive distress then not wanting to eat at all before he can finally get it up. The first time he did this I was really freaked out and jumped through all kind of hoops worrying about the food and trying this and that and finally up came the hair ball. Here's hoping the solution will prove to be so simple for Loki. Sally in San Jose
Re: Tip is Gone
Dear Shiela: I don't know of a book specifically about dealing with the afterlife of critters, but the books I've read about AC and mentioned to you do touch on it, in different ways, and I know that it is possible to communicate with a kitty's spirit after it has crossed over. I will skim through the ones I have and see what I can find that may be more specific. I also may have some saved e-mail references in that regard from one of the AC'ers I've worked with. I do remember how Raphaela Pope related in her book Wisdom of the Animals about a client who tragically had to leave a pet behind when her family was evacuated in the middle of the night from an overseas placement, in Iran I think. She had rescued this starving puppy she named Noor, but when they had to leave abruptly had not been able to take her with them. What may have happened to the little dog had greatly troubled the girl, now a woman, and she asked Raphaela if it would be possible to talk to Noor find out. It had been a number of years, and the little dog may have been through more than one reincarnation since then, but might still remember when she was Noor and reply. Raphaela was still able to reach Noor's spirit and tell her former benefactor what had happened. I'd have to re-read the chapter to remember the exact details, but it was very touching. The abandoned dog had been left to wander the streets again, searching dutifully for her missing guardian but never finding her, yet feeling her love and keeping her mind open to her thoughts until she had perished. When the woman asked if Noor was angry with her for leaving, she said no, how could she be? Because of her, she had learned what it was like to have a loving relationship between a dog and human and was very grateful for that. I guess to many people it seems impossible. We are so entrenched in the concept of being in a concrete place and in a physical body we really have no way to comprehend what it is like to exist only as a spirit. Heaven or whatever people want to call it is not a specific place and spirits don't inhabit physical bodies on that level. Spirits can and do come back in other bodies. Raphaela related how a dog she had and loved for many years, named Petey, who had done much to help her when she was first learning how to re-awaken her ability to communicate with animals, came back as a hawk and spoke with her. Perhaps if you talk to Tipper, he can let you know what happened to him so you can stop wondering and worrying and be at peace. And maybe if you tell him how much you miss him, he may decide to return to you one day in another body. When I had to say goodbye to my first FeLV+ kitty, Purrsia, she told me not to cry, that she would be waiting to be with me again one day. She said she realized how attached I was to her in her present form, but that was not so important and our spirits would be able to find one another. She was so brave and fearless and I know her spirit is soaring high wherever she may be. When her playmate here on earth crossed over 7 months later, I asked Angel if she would greet Purrsia for me, but Angel said she did not expect to find Purrsia waiting for her, that her spirit would not be able to keep up with Purrsia's, and that she had others waiting to welcome and love her. Even if we are not skilled enough to receive their thoughts, you can still send thoughts and loving energy to the other side and they will know it. If you are lucky you may be able to feel or sense a reply. A friend of mine who has done a bit of study and practice with animal communication said that after one of her kittys crossed over, she saw her again, only she was well and whole again with her tail that had been lost in an accident. I think if you could find and read one or more of the books I mentioned, it will help you understand more about the phenomon. I hope you are able to talk to Tipper and come to peace with his loss. If $ were no object, I would talk to my critters, both living and those who have become kitty angels, on a regular basis. One of my goals before my time to cross over arrives is to learn how to communicate telepathically with other species. I can recommend someone to you that has helped me a great deal. Before she made being an AC her full-time avocation, she was a counselor for humans and she is a very compassionate person. She is also skilled in the Yuen method of energetic healing and can help both pet and guardian deal with energetic imbalances that can affect one's well being. Her name is Jasmine Indra...she is a former protege of Raphaela Pope and is mentioned in Raphaela's book along with a black cat Jasmine had named Benoji, who was very wise soul. She has a website: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and her phone no. is: (207) 443-1125; her cell phone if you need to reach her ASAP is (510) 325-2062. Sally in San Jose
Re: off-topic/should I worry about kitty making a noise when she breathes?
Dear Kerry: Unless your kitty is struggling to breathe, or is congested and seems distressed about it, I would not be terribly worried. You are right to want to get it checked out to find out WHY, but some cats do sort of snore. I have one indoor diva, a longhair who may be part Persian...her nostrils have small openings and her nose is a bit less protruding than my other kittys though she does not look like she got smacked in the face with something as the purebred Persians do. When she is sleeping she sometimes snores very audibly. The first time I heard her do that I was a bit worried but I have gotten used to it now. She only does that sometimes and she has never been afflicted with any illness in her upper respiratory tract so I've come to the conclusion it is nothing to worry about for now. Hoping you will find out there is nothing wrong with your kitty's breathing. Sally in San Jose
Re: Tip is Gone
Dear Shiela: I am so very sorry to hear that you lost your Tipper, tragically, before he could come back to you. I, too, know how heartbreaking it is to find a beloved furkid who has gone missing and come to a tragic end. I know it is too late, now, for anything to bring Tipper back to you, but it IS possible for you to be able to talk to his spirit, even though he has crossed over, if that would help bring you some closure. That may sound like over-the-top crazy, but telepathic communication with animals is a very real phenomenon. Since the communication is mental and between spirits, the limitations of being in a physical body is not necessary. Had you ever considered trying to locate Tipper with the help of an animal communicator? You might want to keep that in mind for future reference. I wish that I had known about animal communication some years ago...it might have helped me find one of my furkids before the coyotes did. I went to farm-sit for a friend's horses for a weekend and took my cat Ian with me...he always went wherever I did. My friend's daughter was careless and left the back door to the house open while I was out at the stable with my friend being briefed on the care for the horses and when we came back to the house, Ian was nowhere to be found. I spent the entire day and all that night looking and calling for him. The farm was out in the boonies and surrounded by open space and sagebrush, which is coyote country, and I was scared to death for Ian's safety. How I wish that I had known then it was possible to have been able to talk to him. When I did find Ian in the wee hours of the second morning, he had perished...a coyote had grabbed him just in front of his tail and torn one hind leg away and broken his back, but his body was still warm and I could see that he had been trying, futilely, to drag himself back to me with just his front legs. I sat down and bawled so loudly, I swear I must have sounded like a coyote howling. I was absolutely devastated! Since then, I have become enlightened to the phenomenon of telepathic communication with animals. Finding lost critters is one of the biggest challenges for an AC...a critter cannot tell us where they are in the same way we would...they cannot give an address or exact location. What they CAN do is communicate mental images of their surroundings and can usually tell the AC if they are relatatively close to home or farther away. An AC can also usually tell you if your furkid is still in his/her body, or has already crossed over. I've had two experiences more recently where an AC has been able to help me find my missing furkids very soon, before their lives were in jeopardy. I would not wait a few days to see if they come home...when one of my furkids is missing, I immediately call an animal communicator to make sure they are still alive, that there is nothing to prevent them from finding their way home and how I can locate them. On one occasion, it was summer and very hot and I had left the back door to the house open to cool the house off in the evening. One of my furbabys had just been spayed 3 days prior and so of course I was being careful to make sure she stayed indoors and quiet. But I had fallen asleep on the sofa watching the news on TV and when I woke up it was around 3AM and as I stumbled to the bedroom I noticed the door in the kitchen was open and being half awake and without thinking, closed the door and crawled in bed. I never imagined that Angel (who was not a very brave kitty and did not go outside unless someone was with her) had gone outside on her own. In the morning when it was time to feed everyone and Angel did not come scurrying for her breakfast, and a frantic search of her preferred spots to snuggle in the house was fruitless, my heart crashed to my feet. I went outside and called and called and called, but no Angel. I walked around the entire neighborhood many times, calling and knocking on doors. I made flyers and posted them on fences and telephone poles. And then I got on the phone to contact an animal communicator. The one I usually called was at a conference and not available, but she got back to me and gave me several others for referral and I was finally able find one who could help me. The AC said at first Angel did not answer her, and then did but was not being very communicative, but finally did talk to her. She said first of all Angel had been angry with me for taking her to be spayed without telling her anything about it, and then she was angry about being shut out of the house and she hid. When she got over being angry, she discovered she did not know how to get back and was too afraid to try. Angel was still in her body and not far away...she said. Angel pictured herself in or under something she was not able to get out of. I continued calling for her and looked in and under everything I could, but
Re: when is FelV contagious?
Dear Susan: According to Dr. Pitcairn, in his book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, there are six stages of infection for FeLV. He indicates that cats are not actively shedding the virus and infectious to other cats until they have reached stage five or six. Stage five is the point at which the virus infects the bone marrow and at this point a cat will remain viremic for the rest of its life. Stage six is the point at which a cat becomes significantly and seriously symptomatic and eventually crashes. So if you have a cat who has tested ELISA+, but is IFA negatiave, that would most likely indicate a cat in the earlier stages of infection and one not contagious, yet, to other cats. An IFA+ correlates well with stage four to six of infection, and most likely infectious. Cats that are seriously symptomatic should be considered infectious. The biggest unknown would be a stage-five, latent carrier, who would not be symptomatic but contagious. That is my understanding. I would love to find some recent research that could either corroborate or clarify that interpretation. Sally in San Jose
Re: OT: Skin Problem
Dear Cherie: While Fulvicin is not horrendously toxic, any kind of chemical we put on our pets can be potentially harmful, especially to young kittens and pups. I had a cat once that crashed from a spot-on flea product and went into in toxic shock, yet many cats tolerate such products quite well. I had to take her to emergency and she had to have a blood transfusion. My first choice in treating a problem is to go with an herbal or homeopathic remedy and only use drug therapy as a last resort. I have never had to deal with ringworm and while it is a fungal type thing, it usually most affects those whose immune function is not up to snuff. Young kittens and pups who have immature immune systems and are not in the best condition, as is often the case with feral or abandoned kittens (and adults, too) are likely victims. Once it gets started, it can spread quite easily, so you do want to make sure it is not ringworm before you bring the new kitty home unless you have a place to isolate her and are careful with hygiene. I can understand where the kitten's foster mom is coming from...I do rescue and there are lots of times when I have to wing it in treating minor problems, but I only do so with something I have experience treating and I always try a kinder, gentler method to start with. But if that isn't working and a problem is not responding, I will find a way to get the furkid to vet to find out for sure what I am dealing with. I do find it a bit irritating that even after you offered to pay for the treatment that she can't find time to take the kitten to a vet, but then who knows what else and all she has on her plate to deal with. I am not well-versed on dealing with ringworm. I do know that when exposed to a certain kind of light or perhaps a chemical of some sort, because ringworm is a fungus (not a parasite as the name implies) it will, typically flouresce. But I also know from chatting with listmember Nina ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) who recently had a ringworm scare with one of her dogs, that sometimes a ringworm infection does not present typical symptoms. Have you tried doing a search to find out more about ringworm and how to treat it? I do have another friend who does rescue and she took in two kittens in very poor condition that had ringworm. I don't remember what she treated them with, but they both recovered and the infection did not spread to any of her healthy kittys. Another friend took the third sibling to the two, and she did have two older kittens that seemed to be mildly affected from exposure to that kitten, with a few tiny spots appearing on their ears that went away quickly with treatment. As with the spread of FeLV, a healthy adult cat is more resistant to infection, but there is always a chance. How far away from you is the kitten? Would you be able to go there and take her to a vet if the foster mom won't cooperate? I really don't understand her attitude as when I have a good potential home for one of my rescues, I will try to walk on water if need be to do everything I can to facilitate the placement. You might try one more time to talk to her and insist that you need to know for sure what is going on with the kitten and be sure it is not something contagious that could spread to your other cats. It is her responsibility to make sure you are adopting a healthy cat, or at least made fully aware of any health problems and just what you are dealing with. You might try telling her if she is not willing to do that you could very easily find another kitten to adopt, but I know I would have a hard time doing that for fear she would say fine, go ahead, out of spite. It all depends on how desperate she is to get the kitten adopted. If it were an older cat I'd be less worried about that, but kittens are much easier to place than older cats. During kitten season, it is almost impossible to place older cats and we sometimes have more people wanting to adopt kittens than we have kittens available. If you go ahead and take the kitten now, do you have a friend or neighbor who could keep her for you for a day or two until you can get a clean bill of health from your own vet?? It's a tough call. I hope you are able to find a way to solve this without taking an undue risk. Sally in San Jose
Cat with liver problem needs feeding tube
Hey listmembers... I'm also on the Holisticat list and a member of that list has sent two e-mails about a friend's cat who is in very serious condition with liver problems including hepatic lipidosis. She is asking for advice about what kind of feeding tube would be best, among other things. I know at least one of you on this list has had to deal with that and that it can be very critical. I hope it will be OK if I forward (hope I can figure out how to do that) her emails to this list and hopefully those of you who are experienced in this regard may be able to offer some helpful info. Sally in San Jose
Fwd: [Holisticat] My friend's cat - more info
Message no. 2 Sally in San Jose ---BeginMessage--- Here is more info on my friend's cat who is ill. Does anyone have any ideas?? Technically this is mainly Saturday night's update...But nonetheless... They ran blood work again, and her electrolytes were down. So they went with a different IV than they were planning to (they were going to do an IV with dextrose). They got her on an IV, pain medicine and antibiotic (injectable) and then waited 3-4 hours after I dropped her off, and gave her some cat food by force feeding. She kept it down. I called at 6:00 this morning and the doctor said she had done well for him all night---he had given her more cat food (he said WD --- not AD --- so not sure who makes one called WD or what it is exactly) and that she kept it down. He said she is holding her own. I asked him to level with me and tell me how bad he thinks she is---he said No, ma'am, she's truly holding her own right now.He said he realizes the docs diagnosed hepatic lipidosis, but that they don't know the CAUSE of it. But for now...she's holding her own. Okay---by definition holding her own would not include assisted feeding (grin) but I appreciate what he's trying to say. She's doing the best she can be doing, all things considered. They won't put a tube in her unless she is throwing up and not keeping food down. So...at 6:30 tomorrow morning I go and pick her up from the e-vet and take her back to her regular vet, who is expecting her at 7:00. Wait until he finds out she's been at ER all weekend. WAIT UNTIL HE HEARS THE CONDITION SHE WAS IN WHEN I PICKED HER UP SATURDAY!I really don't think he has any idea she had worsened since he last saw her on Friday night. To me, she is still not jaundiced; to the e-vet, they thought she may be showing a slight tinge to the ears. Alan and I looked agian; we still don't agree. She's a tortie, and she's always had dirty ears --- her ears still looked normal to both of us. We shaded her eat from the hallogen bulbs, and believe it's her natural coloring that we're always used to. So...the dilemma continues. Remember...why she went in to begin with. She wouldn't eat. Took her in; doc said she had a horrible UTI. Prescribed zennequin. We gave her zennequin for about a week---no change. He admitted her for 3 days; when she got out, she was dragging that back leg and limping.He thought they had hit a nerve when giving a shot (the ER vet said she's never done that, in 9 years of practice---thinks something else is going on). Wouldn't eat. Back she went and was boarded a week while the ultrasound and needle biopsy were done (normal except for a few stray white cells). Her pancreas was also deemed to be fine; no kidney problems either. She was on injectable clavamox for a week. Still no change to her UTI or eating. And here we are. :( I am sure doc will put in a feedback tube tomorrow. So I need to know WHICH FEEDING TUBE to go with. Keep in mind: Hope is an overweight cat. Well...okay, she weighs only about 12 pounds, but she's round and wears it all around her middle.She can't get to her rear to clean herself very well. Her neck area is thick.She has a UTI. With all that in mind...which feeding tube might be the way to go?I know doc may do the nose/throat one at the vet to get stuff into her...but is that the best one if she has to have it in 1-4 WEEKS??? Or should we go with one that goes straight to the stomach? Or is the risk of infection too great for that? Ann -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- FONT COLOR=#99In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! /FONTA HREF=http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/Zh0wlB/TM;BClick Here!/B/A ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Holisticat/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---End Message---
Re: Pred Question - Tonya
I think she meant sulphur. Sally in San Jose
Re: Ginger's mom
Dear Hideyo: Whether or not Ginger's mom is FeLV+, if you are able to trap her and get her spayed, that is imperative. The fact Ginger is positive would make one suspicious and if her mom IS positive and that is why all or most of her kittens are not surviving, the continued stress of breeding and having kittens will eventually take its toll on her immune system and sooner rather than later she will become symptomatic and may crash. Even if you are not able to rescue her and give her a home, she will be much better off as a free feral if she has been spayed. The city of San Francisco has established a very successful program for dealing with feral cats and reducing the numbers without resorting to trapping and euthanasia as so many jurisdictions are wont to do. It is a model for city and county governments to follow. They no longer test ferals for FIV/FeLV...they just do TNR (Trap Neuter Release) and have found that their funds are much better spent by dedicating as much of their resources as possible to trapping and getting as many feral cats as possible spayed and neutered. Whether or not a feral is positive for FIV/FeLV is of less consequence than the cat remaining intact and still able to breed. The breeding behaviors (fighting among males and mom's who may pass FeLV to their kittens) is the main vector for disease transmission in feral cat populations. Once the breeding is halted, there is minimal fighting and if the + moms are not having kittens, that means fewer deaths and less suffering if fewer kittens are born with FeLV. Of course it would be wonderful if you could give Ginger's mom a home, but in doing rescue it is not possible to personally take in EVERY cat and you have to accept that reality. If Ginger's mom has managed to survive in her environment for a number of years, even if is not the best and safest environment possible for her, it is the only home she has known and it is where she feels secure. Many feral colonies are found in less than ideal situations, but if the colony members are spayed/neutered, the population will stabilize and the numbers will drop over time due to attrition. The mistake so many city/county bureaucracies make is in thinking they can resolve the problem of feral cats by trapping and euthanasia to reduce numbers. What usually happens is other feral cats just move into the territory and the problem continues unless all the cats are S/N'd. Of course there are many hazards in a wild environment, more in some areas than others, and only the strongest and smartest will survive long term according to Darwinian principles. Colonies that have regular caretakers to feed them and be on the watch for medical problems that need attention (provided the cat can be trapped to treat it or medicated via food) do quite well. Managed ferals that have been S/N'ed have a better life than otherwise, even if it is not the best one possible. If you are able to trap Ginger's mom and get her spayed, please do, and don't feel guilty that you cannot provide a permanent home for her. If you are able to keep her contained and quiet for about a week after the surgery to make sure she heals properly, that would be great. But many ferals get released back to their environment within a day or two and seem to manage just fine. We do the best we can for them under difficult circumstances, even if we may wish we could do better. Bless you for all that you are doing to help the unfortunate, homeless cats in your area. (Are there any programs available to help with low-cost spay and neuter where you live?) You are an angel on earth for all those dear kitty souls and there will be many grateful kitty angels to greet you on the other side one day. Sally in San Jose
Re: For Hideyo -- Your loss of Suzi
Dear Hideyo: I did not mean to imply that you were wrong to want to pick Suzi up as soon as possible. When I am taking a cat to a regular vet (as opposed to being there, in person, and volunteering at one of our S/N events) I also want to bring my furkids home as soon as possible so I can monitor them, myself. Some vets are very good about monitoring cats closely after routine S/N surgery and I've learned to trust them, but others are not and there have been kittys lost as a result, though luckily none of mine. If that were someone's personal pet, it would be a serious problem, but when it is just a feral which is the attitude some vets seem to have, who is going to make a big stink? So many of the vets don't want to be bothered with ferals, period. That is one reason I dedicate my time and efforts to helping this group I volunteer with. The vet who started the program makes sure that each and every feral is treated with the same care and respect that any private client's valuable purebred show cat would receive. This program is not a regular clinic per se that routinely does S/N for cats...it is a one day a month special event just for ferals that uses a public or private vet facility and is staffed completely by caring and dedicated volunteers like myself. I was not trying to suggest that your wanting to pick up Suzi immediately after her surgery was not appropriate. There was obviously some sort of problem due to the surgery and she was evidently not been monitored closely enough before being put into the carrier and given to you to take home. And sometimes, despite the very best of precautions, things just go wrong, as it did for Suzi. You had no way of knowing, and perhaps, neither did the vet. It is rare for there to be such complications, so do try not to be too hard on yourself for not being able to prevent a tragedy that was beyond your control. Suzi knew that she was loved and cared for while she was with you. If you had not found her and rescued her, she may have met a much worse fate being poisoned, or hit by a car or attacked by someone's dog running lose, starved to death or the victim of some disease. You were trying to help her have better chance in life and I am sure she was aware of that. She was sleeping and I am sure she did not suffer. If it will ease your mind to talk to Suzi, it may be possible to communicate with her even though she has crossed over with the help of an animal communicator. And you never know, her spirit could come back to you again in another body, so send her your loving thoughts and tell her how much you miss her and perhaps she will decide to do that. You are a very special person to care so much for those unfortunate cat souls most people just walk on by and never give a thought to. Believe in that and all the good you do and don't let a few unavoidable tragedies get you down. Sally in San Jose
Re: OT: Charlie (FIV+ in MA) needs help and a home
Michelle... I do hope someone comes forward to give Charlie a loving home and the special care he needs. Bless you (and Gray!) for being there to care for Charlie and try to help him find a better situation. Have a good visit and be sure to give your horse a carrot and a hug for me. I hope he/she has a nice pasture in which to spend his/her golden years. I still miss my old gal that passed away on Jan.10th and wish I could have provided her with nicer surroundings in her final years. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can, even when it isn't what we would choose for a beloved critter if $ were not an issue and what we think is best were available to us. Sally in San Jose
Re: So Worried and Irritated (Cherie)
Dear Cherie: You need to keep in mind that with antibiotics, one size doesn't fit all. Different antibiotics are indicated for different types of infections, depending on whether you are dealing with gram-negative or gram-posoitive bacteria, and some abx seem to be more indicated for infections in the mouth or eyes or colon as opposed to a system-wide application. Baytril is a broad-spectrum abx and one of the bigger guns available in the abx arsenal. If you start with the biggest gun available and that isn't working or the animal develops a resistance to it, you have nowhere left to turn, which is why some vets are reluctant to start out with an abx like Baytril unless there is a clear indication for it. Sally in San Jose
Re: So Worried and Irritated
Dear Kathy: Can't think of what kind of injection would be given in the throat as even most IV injections are given in a leg vein as a first choice. I've had vets draw blood from the juglar vein in the neck on occasion, but it is my understanding that Vit.B injections are given subQ, so that is probably what the vet did in the shoulder area and may have missed the preferred mark by an inch or so. Most sarcomas associated with injections are those to give vaccines, thus the protocol for giving rabies in one leg and FeLV vaccines in the other (which are the two vaccines most commonly associated VIS) then if a sarcoma develops the leg can be amputated, whereas if the injection had been given in the neck or shoulder, you don't have that option. Maybe they should use the tail, instead?? I should think a cat missing a tail would be preferable to one missing a leg. Thankfully, the incidence of VIS is relatively uncommon, but if it happens to your cat, that is hardly comforting. Maybe those vaccines should not be given at all? Sally in San Jose
Re: San Fran feral champion
Hi Kerry... I can't remember if I ever sent you a message after Levi passed away. That was a crazy weekend for me and then we were having so many problems with the list and I was enduring my own kind of AOHell. When I couldn't log on, an outsourced consultant told me my AOL software was damaged and my disc drive, for whatever reason, could or would not read a disc to reinstall it and they told me nothing could be done. But I started digging on my own, computer dummy that I am, and decided to try defragging the drives, even though only one drive was 16% fragmented. That seemed to do the trick and I was able to log on again to find an overflowing mailbox. You have my utmost admiration for all your efforts dealing with FeLV+ ferals who are not cuddly and cooperative with regards to getting meds. It is difficult enough when you are trying to dose a cat who is even halfway cooperative. You did the very best you could trying to help Levi. Perhaps he tried so hard to stick around even though it was apparent he was not going to be able to get well because his alpha personality made him think he had to try and be there for his remaining siblings. He was sure a gutsy little guy and you did the best you could to try and help him. Sometimes our best is just not enough, and this is so often true when dealing with FeLV. If we can keep them stable with immune support and a good diet and try to minimize the stress in their life, that is about the best we can do until it is better understood what it is that causes the FeLV-A subgroup to mutate into one of the more virulent subgroups, and a way can be found to stall or halt that process (better yet a cure for the whole damned gamut of FeLV and its subgroups!) Levi and his littermates were so lucky to have come into your care, and I am sure he and the others know that. The pain of the losses may never go away completely, but we have to put it in perspective and go on trying to help the others still in our care. I could really feel for what you have to go through after I rescued a little 5 mo. old off the E-list at the local shelter to be a playmate for Purrki, my miracle bably who retested negative for FeLV when he was neutered in Dec. '04. She was on the E-list because she had a minor URI and the new Shelter is not yet set up to hold and treat cats symptomatic for any length of time, so if whatever symptoms they have don't clear in a few days, they go on the list to be PTS. I was not able to isolate Purrla successfully and ended up with a URI epidemic among my indoor cats. URI's are more annoying than a real threat to healthy cats. But even my two FeLV+ furkids isolated in a back bedroom were affected and they are still semi-feral. Tango, the brother, did very well and I only had to wrap him up in a towel the first two times and he was OK after that about getting his meds. His sister, Macarena, however is still so very shy, I as really worried it would set back her socialization and acceptance of me that I've worked so hard to achieve. When I had to go out of town the weekend of the 5-7th, I was worried sick about having to go away and being able to find someone who could come give meds to them. Luckily, I was able to find two ladies through the local network of rescue groups and both kittys actually did much better than I thought they would and neither of the postives became seriously ill. By the time I got back, no one was still couging or congested, just a bit of sneezing, and all were eating on their own. With regards to the San Francisco program, I will try to find copy of an article about that which listmember Denise Uriarte (also a boardmember and volunteer with PFOF, which stands for Peninsula Fix Our Ferals) shared with me. They have a dynamic young atorney who is or was the director and he lays it out in dollars and cents to demonstrate that an aggressive TNR policy with the bulk of resources dedicated to S/N is more cost effective and better at controlling feral populations than is TPTS. San Francisco is the only large city I know of which maintains a no kill policy at their shelters and are not having to euthanize healthy, adoptable cats as so many shelters must do. The vet who has spearheaded these S/N events and gotten her colleagues to donate their veterinary skills and time to the effort is Dr. Dana Gleason. She has a practice in the East Bay area but I don't remember exactly where offhand...will have to dig into my offline saved mail for that. She had been doing it for a while in the E. Bay and this past August began an effort to include the Peninsula (West Bay area) and down south to San Jose, as well. I have worked with three of these events so far and I can't tell you how impressed I am with the way she has managed to get the events organized and running so smoothly. These ferals would get no better care in the most prestigious private practices (which
Re: So Worried and Irritated (Cherie)
Dear Cherie: If that is what your vet prescribes, I am sure he/she has reasons for choosing that particular abx. It is an effective one and good for a wide range of applications as well as being and safer than some others. My mom is a licensed wildlife rehabber and primarily involved with injured birds and Bayril is one of the few abx that can safely be used for birds. I always ask vets why they choose whatever meds are being prescribed and one of my pet peeves is a vet who won't take the time to give me an explanation about what they are doing and WHY, so I can learn and become a better informed critter mom and be intelligently involved in my furkids' healing. Some vets are very good at treating the critters, but not so good at explaining things to the caretaker. Sally in San Jose
Re: For Hideyo -- Your loss of Suzi
Dear Hideyo: I can't really add anything to what Nina said and said so well. I am a bit surprised, however, to hear that the vet sent her home with you so soon after the surgery. Didn't you say she had only been awake for 100-15 min.?? I volunteer with an organization that does Spay/Neuter events for ferals once/month. The vets donate their time and we do them on a Sunday when most surgival facilities are not being used. The object is to do as many ferals as possible in the one day, but also to do it SAFELY, for the sake of the cats. We have teams of volunteers that work in concert with the vets/vet techs to handle the anesthesia, surgical prep, surgery (by vets only, of course), post op care and recovery. We normally do between 30-50 cats in a day and do not release any cats until they are well awake and have been observed for an extended period of time and we are pretty sure all is well. While it may seem that this sort of assembly line approach may not be the best, we haven't (knock on wood) lost one yet in several years. After surgery, we monitor the cats very closely with regard to their pulse/respiration and keep them warm and quiet. Most, typically, are held for at least an hour or two after their surgery, with those who are done earlier in the day it is longer. So, I guess I would question whether or not the vet who did Suzi's surgery had done everything that he/she should have to make sure Suzi was coming out of the anesthesia OK and that there had been no complications. Any kind of surgery is stressful for even a domesticated cat, and for ferals there is an added stress factor due to their being unaccustomed to handling. Whatever went wrong that caused Suzi to fail and not recover from the surgery, it was certainly not due to any fault or negligence on your part. You were trying the best you knew how to give her a better chance in life. Spaying/neutering is one of those things that needs to be done to cut down on the indiscriminate breeding behavior that is the main vector for the transmission of diseases like FIV, FeLV, etc. in feral populations. If more governmental bureaucracies would realize this is the single most important thing that can be done with limited resources to help put an end to unnecessary suffering and pet overpopulation both in domesticated and feral populations (instead of putting funds into testing and euthanasia for ferals), it would make a big difference. I know that regardless of anything that I or Nina or anyone else says, you will always feel badly about losing Suzi and wish you had not taken her to be spayed that day. I, too, would feel badly. Keep in mind that hindsight is always sharper and we are not given a crystal ball to see into the future when decisions must be made. Suzi needed to be spayed, if not that day, then another and you don't know that the outcome might have been the same at some other time. She may have been terminally stressed whenever the surgery was done. In the future, you might ask your homeopathic vet if he can recommend something that will helpstronger thanyou
Re: Natural Hydrocortisone
Dear Patti: If you haven't read Dr. Martin Goldstein's book, The Nature of Animal Healing , I recommend it highly. He has much to say about the overuse of many drugs (especially steroids), and the negative effects they can have long term on immune function. While steroids may seem like a magic bullet for many types of symptoms, there is a negative pay-off long term. When symptoms are merely suppressed and the underlying cause not addressed nor balance restored, what often happens is that the problem will end up going deeper and reappear as a more serious manifestation at a later date. Dr. G. is not a strictly homeopathic vet, but describes himself as having been holisticized early on. He does admit that there are situations when it is necessary to use more conventional treatment or even drugs (especially in dealing with fast-growing cancers) to buy more time to effect a proper cure. Homeopathic healing is usually not something that happens like waving a magic wand and voila, the animal is cured. It takes time for animals to develop conditions of unwellness and also takes time to undo damage that has accrued over time. It takes more patience than many pet owners are accustomed to having, so the magic bullets that some drugs seem to be is very appealing. I think you will find this book very enlightening. I believe it was from Dr. G's book, and not the one by Dr. Don Hamilton, Homeopathic Care for Dogs and Cats -- Small Doses for Small Animals, which is also an excellent reference to have, that the natural hydrocortisone is mentioned that I told Nina about. There is a Source Guide in the back of Dr. G's book that I have found extremely useful; suppliers for most of the remedies and treaments he mentions in his book are given therein. Happy reading and researching to you. I hope you will share with us anything you come across that seems to be relevant. Sally in San Jose
Re: OT-Simba is missing
Dear Faye: I do hope Simba will reappear soon. If not, you might want to consider consulting with an animal communicator. They can usually tell you if your kitty is still in his/her body and while a cat cannot give you an address or exact location where to find them, they can usually let the AC know whether they are nearby or farther away and describe their surroundings, which can help you find them. There are also meditative stategies you can use to try and draw him back home with your own thoughts. Good luck. Sally in San Jose
