Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I think you all have valid points. Here are my thoughts. 1. Overdiagnosis of FIP - this is way hard to estimate because the diagnosis is difficult to come by. In fact, the pathophysiology of the disease is poorly understood so it may actually represent a constellation of diseases. In the end, however, the question is treatment. I think it is foolish to give a diagnosis of FIP if you are simply going to give up and put the animal down. If, however, you have no other explanation and the clinical signs are highly suspicious then you have to look at the possibility that it is. That's what I see happened in this case. Given that, what are you going to do. You have no other explanation, so how do you treat, do you wait until they die and do an autopsy to prove it's FIP or do you try something. I would try something. 2. Skepticism - I understand skepticism because I have tried and failed on more than one occassion with difficult viral diseases in cats. I really get that. What I do not understand (and if someone can enlighten me, I would be open to it) is how someone can see an animal suspected to have FIP, treated successfully and then say it was not FIP. How does one know that, how does one know that they did not successfully treat the disease? If someone says the only way to truely diagnose is by autopsy and the cat survived, prove to me they did not have FIP. If someone is saying it's not FIP only on the basis that the cat survived, well that's a useless statement to me. The skepticism works both ways - you can be skeptical it wasn't or skeptical it was. But in the end the difference is the treatment. I know it's not perfect science but medicine never is. So if you have tested for a number of common diseases, and all but the coronavirus were negative; there was a familial association, recent history of stress (spay, neuter, vaccination) in a young cat, and clinical signs/symptoms of the disease - short of putting the animal down and doing an autopsy, you've got a good of a diagnosis as you can get. 3. Medicine in general - Medicine is truely an art. Every individual is different. Every individual responds differently to life, stress, disease and treatment. Simply because a treatment works on one animal and not another does not mean they carry a different diagnosis. Especially in an immune related disease. The spectrum of disease presentation can be broad and the spectrum of response to treatment can be equally as broad. Does that mean we don't try? I don't think so. We all fail, it's whether or not we get back up and try again that determines our character. High dose Vitamin C appears to work for some (and there is a good scientific basis for why if you look into close enough) maybe not for all, but at the very least, it is an option where there are so few. I respect all you for your dedication to understanding, treating and erradicating the diseases that plague these animals. I know we are all trying to do what's best for them. We each may have a different approach but I am glad to know there are people like all of you with such a desire and passion to help. I have learned from all of you. God bless. Jenny On 11/24/09, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
That's what I understand. ITs proved through necropsy of the dead cat. However, with certain signs yellowish fluid from the belly, high corona titre, etc, vets tend to project that a cat has FIP. I heard by the grapevine recently that Cornell is doing FIP research. I am always very interested in and respect Dr. Belfield's approaches, so am very interested in this and will have to read more. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:08 AM, MaryChristine wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
The skepticism is by people who have dealt with FIP and been brought to our knees by it. Any active rescue person has seen repeated cases of FIP. We have tried all manner of treatment, very often without success. And when we have had what could be called success it was always a situation where we could not be sure that we were dealing with FIP. We've earned our skepticism the hard way and have learned not to get our hopes up with this disease. I am thrilled that your kitten survived. But I am not convinced that we now have a viable treatment for FIP. But I do hope for that to come eventually. --- On Mon, 11/23/09, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:29 PM I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Gary, Angelica's litter mate Chuckie died from confirmed FIP on November 11 with exactly the same symptoms and Angelica became symptomatic just about 10 days after Chuckie manifested with the disease. They were hospitalized together but Chuckie's disease was too advanced by the time we were able to administer the ascorbate due to lost time at vets and because of chronic antibiotic and steroid use for what was earlier diagnosed as FUO. His confirming final blood work returned on the day before he died with rising coronavirus titers and his PCR was positive for dry FIP. We did not see the need to perform the blood work on Angelica because she was showing identical symptoms to Chuckie with sustained high fevers, lethargy, inappetence, weight loss, and mild neurological involvement, though the biggest reason was that she was so early in the disease process that it would likely not have shown up anyway, as it took until the day before Chuckie died for his PCR to show the FIP. We had done blood work on him three times before that with negative corona virus titers and mostly normal results except for positive Dohle bodies and mild anemia. Rather than spend additional monies on blood work that would likely not have shown us anything so early in her disease process (as Chuckie's did not), we chose to allocate that money toward Angelica's treatment. We have discussed doing blood work now to confirm the presence of the coronavirus and we still may, though the focus obviously remains on completing her treatment first. She will receive her last drip tomorrow and will then receive subcutaneous injections of sodium ascorbate at home while we taper her off of the high dose vitamin C in an effort to avoid any rebound scurvy effect from stopping the C abruptly, since cats only make the human equivalent of 2,800 mg of vitamin C in the liver daily, far less than most other animals in the animal kingdom (a goat makes the human equivalent of 13,000 mg daily). This is the reason that domestic cats and dogs are so often ill with chronic and deadly viruses that their immune systems cannot fight off. Though they obviously still have the gulonolactone oxidase (GLO) enzyme that allows them to synthesize ascorbate from glucose in the liver, the suboptimal feeding of canned and processed diets has apparently altered their ability to synthesize it at high enough levels to sustain optimal health, hence the reason it is crucial that they receive supplemental vitamin C added to their food. Again, see http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. The third remaining litter mate, Tommy, to date appears asymptomatic and remains healthy. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:42 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Gary, Angelica's litter mate Chuckie died from confirmed FIP on November 11 with exactly the same symptoms and Angelica became symptomatic just about 10 days after Chuckie manifested with the disease. They were hospitalized together but Chuckie's disease was too advanced by the time we were able to administer the ascorbate due to lost time at vets and because of chronic antibiotic and steroid use for what was earlier diagnosed as FUO. His confirming final blood work returned on the day before he died with rising coronavirus titers and his PCR was positive for dry FIP. We did not see the need to perform the blood work on Angelica because she was showing identical symptoms to Chuckie with sustained high fevers, lethargy, inappetence, weight loss, and mild neurological involvement, though the biggest reason was that she was so early in the disease process that it would likely not have shown up anyway, as it took until the day before Chuckie died for his PCR to show the FIP. We had done blood work on him three times before that with negative corona virus titers and mostly normal results except for positive Dohle bodies and mild anemia. Rather than spend additional monies on blood work that would likely not have shown us anything so early in her disease process (as Chuckie's did not), we chose to allocate that money toward Angelica's treatment. We have discussed doing blood work now to confirm the presence of the coronavirus and we still may, though the focus obviously remains on completing her treatment first. She will receive her last drip tomorrow and will then receive subcutaneous injections of sodium ascorbate at home while we taper her off of the high dose vitamin C in an effort to avoid any rebound scurvy effect from stopping the C abruptly, since cats only make the human equivalent of 2,800 mg of vitamin C in the liver daily, far less than most other animals in the animal kingdom (a goat makes the human equivalent of 13,000 mg daily). This is the reason that domestic cats and dogs are so often ill with chronic and deadly viruses that their immune systems cannot fight off. Though they obviously still have the gulonolactone oxidase (GLO) enzyme that allows them to synthesize ascorbate from glucose in the liver, the suboptimal feeding of canned and processed diets has apparently altered their ability to synthesize it at high enough levels to sustain optimal health, hence the reason it is crucial that they receive supplemental vitamin C added to their food. Again, see http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. The third remaining litter mate, Tommy, to date appears asymptomatic and remains healthy. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:42 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I just posted the history about this and the testing that was performed a few minutes ago. If you need more information, let me know. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I just posted the history about this and the testing that was performed a few minutes ago. If you need more information, let me know. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always
