Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Girard Bowe]

Here is my response to a thread I started on the Finale Forum
  regarding the spacing of the eighth-rest dot in JazzFont:

 

"Well, here it is, 2 years since my post on this thread, and 11  years since
Christopher Smith reported this bug, and with yet another new release, this
bug remains. Finale 26 is an extremely thin improvement, and woefully short
in bug fixes. I wish I could get my money back. I think this will be my last
Finale upgrade. Also, where is the promised alternative to JazzFont, which
has some truly ugly characters? Is there a reason there is no shortcut to
the Jazz character map in the Help dropdown menu? Is there any improvement
to creating mix-font enclosures? Does ANYBODY from Finale care?"

 

I'm curious what bug fixes have been made that users on this list have found
in Finale 26, and what bug fixes you're still waiting for.

 

GizB

Richmond VA

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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Michael Good]

Hello David and Steve,

Steve’s understanding is correct. The Dolet 7.2 for Finale plug-in is there so 
you can get batch import, batch export, and MusicXML 3.1 support in earlier 
32-bit versions of Finale. All these features are built into 64-bit Finale as 
of v25. Dolet is a 32-bit plug-in, so it won’t show up in either Finale v25 or 
v26.

Best regards,

Michael Good
VP of MusicXML Technologies
MakeMusic, Inc.

> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:31:26 +
> From: "Fiskum, Steve" 
> To: "finale@shsu.edu" 
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?
> Message-ID: <2c37f287-3526-44cf-8dc6-4dacbea82...@jspaluch.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> Hello David,
> 
> My understanding is the the plugin is no longer necessary and that it IS 
> built in to the program under the file menu. Look at the FAQ on the music my 
> site. ?As of V25 Finale now includes all the extra features from the filet 
> plug-in directly from the file menu. There is no longer a need for a plug-in 
> to get the full functionality. ?
> 
> Cheers!
> Steve Fiskum

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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Eric Dannewitz]

Jazz Font is a terrible font. You should switch to Bill Duncan’s articulation 
font and use Maestro.



> On Oct 11, 2018, at 10:54 AM, Girard Bowe  wrote:
> 
> Here is my response to a thread I started on the Finale Forum
>  on-dots>  regarding the spacing of the eighth-rest dot in JazzFont:
> 
> 
> 
> "Well, here it is, 2 years since my post on this thread, and 11  years since
> Christopher Smith reported this bug, and with yet another new release, this
> bug remains. Finale 26 is an extremely thin improvement, and woefully short
> in bug fixes. I wish I could get my money back. I think this will be my last
> Finale upgrade. Also, where is the promised alternative to JazzFont, which
> has some truly ugly characters? Is there a reason there is no shortcut to
> the Jazz character map in the Help dropdown menu? Is there any improvement
> to creating mix-font enclosures? Does ANYBODY from Finale care?"
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious what bug fixes have been made that users on this list have found
> in Finale 26, and what bug fixes you're still waiting for.
> 
> 
> 
> GizB
> 
> Richmond VA
> 
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Girard Bowe]

I've considered doing just that, but unfortunately, the Bill Duncan fonts are 
part of an expensive package. All I would really want is the chord library. 
That doesn't seem to be an option on the NPC site.

Giz

-Original Message-
From: Finale [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Eric Dannewitz
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 1:56 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

Jazz Font is a terrible font. You should switch to Bill Duncan’s articulation 
font and use Maestro. 


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[Finale] Fin26 Observations

[David H. Bailey]

Fin25 / Fin26, you say potatoes, I say potahtoes.  Not much difference 
that I can see.


I just tried a quick experiment to see how wonderful the new automatic 
placement feature for slurs and other articulations works, and I have to 
say that it does what it claims to, although hardly the big deal around 
which to build a whole-number upgrade.


Yes that does make multiple articulations much neater by default.  But 
it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to be.  If we want 
them stacked differently we still have to drag them as we've had to do 
in all previous versions of Finale.


Looking at the list of what's new in Fin26, there is the comment:
"Palette. The Simple Entry Rests Palette is now one of the default 
palettes displayed when launching Finale."  -- Did anybody really suffer 
from having to actually manually have the Simple Entry Rests Palette 
display whenever Simple Entry mode is used, or setting Finale to have it 
display all the time if we so wished?  Hardly worth a whole-number upgrade!


"...the return of the Maestro font Lead Sheet template" -- so putting 
something *back* which should never have been removed in the first place 
is something we have to pay for?  Especially aggravating, given that we 
had to pay for the upgrade where they removed it in the first place!


No, I see nothing making this a worthwhile upgrade for anybody who is on 
Finale12, 14, 14.5 and definitely not worth the price for someone 
working in Finale25.  If a person is on a much earlier version of Finale 
then this will offer a lot of improvements, but beware, some 
long-standing bugs (read Giz's message) are still there


Unless the articulations were driving you batty, in which case you may 
feel it's worth the $150 upgrade fee.  I'm with Giz Bowe on this -- it's 
the last upgrade for Finale I'll be buying until they do major 
improvements to the program.  I notice that they don't appear to address 
the numerous complaints about the linked score/parts and what is linked 
and what is unlinked.


Gone are the days of the mind-blowing, new-feature-rich upgrades of the 
past, where we could suddenly do something that previously had been 
impossible or at least very difficult.




--
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Cisraels]

  
  

 I think you’d want the articulation font as well.   
  

  
There are jazz articulations that look appropriate with Maestro. Using Jazz 
font articulations with Maestro looks awful and that discrepancy was why Bill 
made the articulations (for Greg Hamilton and me).   
  

  
There’s lots in the package Nick sells you don’t normally need,but I’d be 
unhappy to lose the things mentioned above and the use of the chord font for 
slashes and rhythmic notation.   
  

  
Jazz charts look much better with them.   
  

  
Chuck   
  
  
  
  

  

  
  
 Chuck Israels
  cisra...@comcast.net (mailto:cisra...@comcast.net)
  (360) 201-3434 (tel:(360)%20201-3434)
  
 8831 SE 12th Ave.
 Portland OR 97202
  
   
  
  

  
  
>   
> On Oct 11, 2018 at 11:26 AM,  mailto:girard.b...@verizon.net)>  
> wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  I've considered doing just that, but unfortunately, the Bill Duncan fonts 
> are part of an expensive package. All I would really want is the chord 
> library. That doesn't seem to be an option on the NPC site.
>
> Giz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Finale [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Eric Dannewitz
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 1:56 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?
>
> Jazz Font is a terrible font. You should switch to Bill Duncan’s articulation 
> font and use Maestro.  
>
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Re: [Finale] Fin26 Observations

[David H. Bailey]

On 10/11/2018 6:14 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:

David Bailey said: "it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to
be."

Actually, it stacks the articulations based on their order in the
Articulation Selection dialog box. If you want them to stack in a different
order, you can change their order in the list and they will automatically
stack in the new order. This may or may not be behavior that is desirable,
but it can be exploited if you understand it.



[snip]

Thank you for pointing that out -- and I notice also that it's possible 
to create new articulations which can be marked as "automatically 
stacking" and are marked with an asterisk in the lower right corner of 
the articulation selection dialog.



--
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Fin26 Observations

[David H. Bailey]

On 10/11/2018 6:37 PM, Steve Parker wrote:

Can you stack articulations as Ligeti does?


[snip]

I'm not familiar with Ligeti's stacked articulations.  If you want to 
send me a scan of an example of his stacked articulations I'll see 
whether I can get Fin26 to stack them similarly.



--
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Fin26 Observations

[Steve Parker]

Can you stack articulations as Ligeti does?

> On 11 Oct 2018, at 23:14, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> David Bailey said: "it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to
> be."
> 
> Actually, it stacks the articulations based on their order in the
> Articulation Selection dialog box. If you want them to stack in a different
> order, you can change their order in the list and they will automatically
> stack in the new order. This may or may not be behavior that is desirable,
> but it can be exploited if you understand it.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:11 PM David H. Bailey 
> wrote:
> 
>> Fin25 / Fin26, you say potatoes, I say potahtoes.  Not much difference
>> that I can see.
>> 
>> I just tried a quick experiment to see how wonderful the new automatic
>> placement feature for slurs and other articulations works, and I have to
>> say that it does what it claims to, although hardly the big deal around
>> which to build a whole-number upgrade.
>> 
>> Yes that does make multiple articulations much neater by default.  But
>> it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to be.  If we want
>> them stacked differently we still have to drag them as we've had to do
>> in all previous versions of Finale.
>> 
>> Looking at the list of what's new in Fin26, there is the comment:
>> "Palette. The Simple Entry Rests Palette is now one of the default
>> palettes displayed when launching Finale."  -- Did anybody really suffer
>> from having to actually manually have the Simple Entry Rests Palette
>> display whenever Simple Entry mode is used, or setting Finale to have it
>> display all the time if we so wished?  Hardly worth a whole-number upgrade!
>> 
>> "...the return of the Maestro font Lead Sheet template" -- so putting
>> something *back* which should never have been removed in the first place
>> is something we have to pay for?  Especially aggravating, given that we
>> had to pay for the upgrade where they removed it in the first place!
>> 
>> No, I see nothing making this a worthwhile upgrade for anybody who is on
>> Finale12, 14, 14.5 and definitely not worth the price for someone
>> working in Finale25.  If a person is on a much earlier version of Finale
>> then this will offer a lot of improvements, but beware, some
>> long-standing bugs (read Giz's message) are still there
>> 
>> Unless the articulations were driving you batty, in which case you may
>> feel it's worth the $150 upgrade fee.  I'm with Giz Bowe on this -- it's
>> the last upgrade for Finale I'll be buying until they do major
>> improvements to the program.  I notice that they don't appear to address
>> the numerous complaints about the linked score/parts and what is linked
>> and what is unlinked.
>> 
>> Gone are the days of the mind-blowing, new-feature-rich upgrades of the
>> past, where we could suddenly do something that previously had been
>> impossible or at least very difficult.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbaile...@comcast.net
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
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>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>> 
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Re: [Finale] Fin26 Observations

[Robert Patterson]

David Bailey said: "it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to
be."

Actually, it stacks the articulations based on their order in the
Articulation Selection dialog box. If you want them to stack in a different
order, you can change their order in the list and they will automatically
stack in the new order. This may or may not be behavior that is desirable,
but it can be exploited if you understand it.


On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:11 PM David H. Bailey 
wrote:

> Fin25 / Fin26, you say potatoes, I say potahtoes.  Not much difference
> that I can see.
>
> I just tried a quick experiment to see how wonderful the new automatic
> placement feature for slurs and other articulations works, and I have to
> say that it does what it claims to, although hardly the big deal around
> which to build a whole-number upgrade.
>
> Yes that does make multiple articulations much neater by default.  But
> it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to be.  If we want
> them stacked differently we still have to drag them as we've had to do
> in all previous versions of Finale.
>
> Looking at the list of what's new in Fin26, there is the comment:
> "Palette. The Simple Entry Rests Palette is now one of the default
> palettes displayed when launching Finale."  -- Did anybody really suffer
> from having to actually manually have the Simple Entry Rests Palette
> display whenever Simple Entry mode is used, or setting Finale to have it
> display all the time if we so wished?  Hardly worth a whole-number upgrade!
>
> "...the return of the Maestro font Lead Sheet template" -- so putting
> something *back* which should never have been removed in the first place
> is something we have to pay for?  Especially aggravating, given that we
> had to pay for the upgrade where they removed it in the first place!
>
> No, I see nothing making this a worthwhile upgrade for anybody who is on
> Finale12, 14, 14.5 and definitely not worth the price for someone
> working in Finale25.  If a person is on a much earlier version of Finale
> then this will offer a lot of improvements, but beware, some
> long-standing bugs (read Giz's message) are still there
>
> Unless the articulations were driving you batty, in which case you may
> feel it's worth the $150 upgrade fee.  I'm with Giz Bowe on this -- it's
> the last upgrade for Finale I'll be buying until they do major
> improvements to the program.  I notice that they don't appear to address
> the numerous complaints about the linked score/parts and what is linked
> and what is unlinked.
>
> Gone are the days of the mind-blowing, new-feature-rich upgrades of the
> past, where we could suddenly do something that previously had been
> impossible or at least very difficult.
>
>
>
> --
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions? JazzFont Alternative

[Jan Angermüller]

Also, where is the promised alternative to JazzFont, which
has some truly ugly characters? 


Girard, why don't you use the free Elbsound Music Font Package for Finale?
25 music fonts including four alternative jazz fonts - all 100% 
compatible with Maestro.

LijazFIN looks very similar to JazzFont.
As the fonts are fully compatible you can even use "Set Default Music 
Font" to change the font (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3AEjB1Ci1s ).


Examples of the handwritten fonts from the package:
LijazFIN: https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=LijazFIN
GldngFIN:https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=GldngFIN
JzBscFIN: https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=JzBscFIN
ImprvFIN: https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=ImprvFIN

And JazzFont: https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=Jazz
All music symbols from the font package: 
https://elbsound.studio/download.php?f=FontSamplesAllSymbols.pdf


Download: 
https://elbsound.studio/elbsound-music-font-package-for-finale.php#download


Jan Angermueller

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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Giovanni Andreani]

Thank you for the tip, quite important by the way. I, personally, consider a 
transitional period - when upgrading - for which I maintain the version prior 
to the latest installed one.






Giovanni Andreani

www.giovanniandreani.com
www.ga-music.com




> On 10 Oct 2018, at 22:29, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
> On 10/10/2018 3:54 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>> It officially launched today at an upgrade price of $150.
>> It seems that the upgrade mainly consists of a few improvements to collision 
>> avoidance.  Perhaps there is much more than immediately meets the eye, but 
>> this seems like a rather thin upgrade for $150.
>> I may upgrade, but I have been doing most of my work in Dorico lately, which 
>> already does 10x more automatic collision avoidance than Finale.
>> I'd appreciate hearing about any experience from people doing upgrades or 
>> using the demo version.
> 
> Second observation -- Fin26 will automatically remove Fin25 and install Fin26 
> if we aren't careful to read all the fine print in the installation dialog 
> boxes!  There is a dialogue labeled "Uninstall Finale 25" which has a 
> checkbox to uninstall Fin25, which comes checked by default (wrong decision 
> by the developers in my opinion), so if we're not careful to UNcheck that 
> box, we'll lose our Fin25 installation. That may be unimportant for some who 
> will simply remove older versions and use the newest one, but with all the 
> upgrading troubles moving our data files from previous versions up to the 
> most recent Finale versions, I'm keeping most of my Finale versions installed.
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[David H. Bailey]

I have downloaded and installed Finale 26 (Windows), and at the same 
time I have downloaded and installed the latest version of Dolet for 
Finale (ver7.2).


Curiously, even though the installation instructions for Dolet tells me 
that I will be able to select where it will install, the actual 
installation gave me no choice at all and automatically installed it in 
the Program Files (x86) \ MakeMusic \ Dolet 7 for Finale folder.  And it 
created another folder called Program Files (x86) \ MakeMusic \ Finale \ 
26 \ Plug-ins \ MusicXML where it placed the Dolet7.fxt plugin.


Unfortunately, my Finale 26 installation is in the Program Files \ 
MakeMusic \ Finale \ 26 folder, so the placement of the plug-in is not 
accessible to the actual installation of Finale.


Simple solution, do I hear you say?  Just copy MusicXML folder with 
Dolet7.fxt in it to the Plug-ins folder of the actual installation of 
Finale26.  I beat you to that!  I already did that.


Then I ran Finale26.  In the Plug-ins submenu there is a very nice 
MusicXML listing with a triangle indicating a sub-menu, which is where I 
would expect to find the Dolet7 plugin listed.  All the other plug-ins 
which installed with the program show up just perfectly, but when I 
click on the triangle to open the MusicXML submenu, nothing happens.  It 
just won't open any submenu, empty or not.  So I have no access to 
Dolet7 other than the "lite" version which is listed in the File/Export 
and File/Import dialogs.


I have tried moving the entire Dolet7 folder to the Program Files \ 
MakeMusic folder, with no luck.


I can't leave Dolet7 in the Program Files (x86) folder because I can't 
have Finale26 point to more than one plug-ins folder (which is peculiar 
because I have other programs where there are options for things like 
"auxiliary plug-ins folder" so they can be placed in several different 
locations if I wish).


Thus I would love some suggestions so that I can actually have Dolet7 
appear in my plug-ins menu and be able to use the complete version.


And perhaps someone could also explain why (since MakeMusic owns Finale 
and also owns MusicXML and the Dolet plug-ins) they don't just build the 
full version into the program itself?  Why do we need to install a 
second version and go through the plug-ins menu?  It's not as if it's a 
huge file size and by installing only the "light" version they're saving 
us disk space!


But mostly I'd just love some suggestions about how to actually get the 
full Dolet7 version working in Finale26 for Windows.


Thanks!

--
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Fiskum, Steve]

Hello David,

My understanding is the the plugin is no longer necessary and that it IS built 
in to the program under the file menu. Look at the FAQ on the music my site. 
“As of V25 Finale now includes all the extra features from the filet plug-in 
directly from the file menu. There is no longer a need for a plug-in to get the 
full functionality. “

Cheers!
Steve Fiskum

> On Oct 11, 2018, at 5:32 AM, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
> I have downloaded and installed Finale 26 (Windows), and at the same time I 
> have downloaded and installed the latest version of Dolet for Finale (ver7.2).
> 
> Curiously, even though the installation instructions for Dolet tells me that 
> I will be able to select where it will install, the actual installation gave 
> me no choice at all and automatically installed it in the Program Files (x86) 
> \ MakeMusic \ Dolet 7 for Finale folder.  And it created another folder 
> called Program Files (x86) \ MakeMusic \ Finale \ 26 \ Plug-ins \ MusicXML 
> where it placed the Dolet7.fxt plugin.
> 
> Unfortunately, my Finale 26 installation is in the Program Files \ MakeMusic 
> \ Finale \ 26 folder, so the placement of the plug-in is not accessible to 
> the actual installation of Finale.
> 
> Simple solution, do I hear you say?  Just copy MusicXML folder with 
> Dolet7.fxt in it to the Plug-ins folder of the actual installation of 
> Finale26.  I beat you to that!  I already did that.
> 
> Then I ran Finale26.  In the Plug-ins submenu there is a very nice MusicXML 
> listing with a triangle indicating a sub-menu, which is where I would expect 
> to find the Dolet7 plugin listed.  All the other plug-ins which installed 
> with the program show up just perfectly, but when I click on the triangle to 
> open the MusicXML submenu, nothing happens.  It just won't open any submenu, 
> empty or not.  So I have no access to Dolet7 other than the "lite" version 
> which is listed in the File/Export and File/Import dialogs.
> 
> I have tried moving the entire Dolet7 folder to the Program Files \ MakeMusic 
> folder, with no luck.
> 
> I can't leave Dolet7 in the Program Files (x86) folder because I can't have 
> Finale26 point to more than one plug-ins folder (which is peculiar because I 
> have other programs where there are options for things like "auxiliary 
> plug-ins folder" so they can be placed in several different locations if I 
> wish).
> 
> Thus I would love some suggestions so that I can actually have Dolet7 appear 
> in my plug-ins menu and be able to use the complete version.
> 
> And perhaps someone could also explain why (since MakeMusic owns Finale and 
> also owns MusicXML and the Dolet plug-ins) they don't just build the full 
> version into the program itself?  Why do we need to install a second version 
> and go through the plug-ins menu?  It's not as if it's a huge file size and 
> by installing only the "light" version they're saving us disk space!
> 
> But mostly I'd just love some suggestions about how to actually get the full 
> Dolet7 version working in Finale26 for Windows.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
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