RE: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: 13 January 2006 01:12 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics On Jan 12, 2006, at 6:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: They use a spinner control, which when used to increment a number, generally adds 1 for the up arrow of the spinner control, and -1 for the down arrow. It may be that the spinner control is actually a fake one, created with a text box and two command buttons. That doesn't change the fact that it acts like a conventional spinner control. Some more inconsistencies: In Speedy Entry, Shift-DOWN Arrow changes from Layer 1 to Layer 2. Eh? - I can't get this to work. Wish it did. In Speedy, Shift-Down Arrow moves me down to the next stave. Is there a way to switch on your behaviour? In the Group Attributes box (after selecting Edit Group Attributes) clicking the UP arrow goes from Group 1 to Group 2. In the Staff Attributes box clicking the DOWN arrow goes from Staff 1 to Staff 2. This actually makes sense to me, whereas the other two seem to be random. One group or layer is not necessarily above another, as in the case of staves, and even that can be re-ordered manually. Whether or not that is an appropriate choice by the programmers is a more complicated issue. Yep. Sure is. Christopher Gary Griffiths ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
Which version and platform? In 2005 on the mac you can go to Speedy Navigation in the Speedy menu and see a lot of the available keyboard shortcuts (I don't think that's all of them). Shift-DOWN Arrow is listed as Christopher describes. It was there for switching layers in Speedy before we had the option command 1-4 shortcuts for use anywhere in the program. Don Hart on 1/13/06 3:12 AM, Gary Griffiths at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shift-DOWN Arrow changes from Layer 1 to Layer 2. Smith Sent: 13 January 2006 01:12 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics Some more inconsistencies: In Speedy Entry, Shift-DOWN Arrow changes from Layer 1 to Layer 2. Eh? - I can't get this to work. Wish it did. In Speedy, Shift-Down Arrow moves me down to the next stave. Is there a way to switch on your behaviour? In the Group Attributes box (after selecting Edit Group Attributes) clicking the UP arrow goes from Group 1 to Group 2. In the Staff Attributes box clicking the DOWN arrow goes from Staff 1 to Staff 2. This actually makes sense to me, whereas the other two seem to be random. One group or layer is not necessarily above another, as in the case of staves, and even that can be re-ordered manually. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
Mark D Lew wrote: On Jan 12, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Simon Troup wrote: Is it just me or are the arrows the wrong way around for selecting which set of lyrics to edit in the edit lyrics dialogue box. I feel that way about ALL dialog boxes in which one clicks the up arrow to decrement and the down arrow to increment. To name just one examples out of scores, if I open up the window to set my system's clock and calendar, clicking the up arrow moves me to Jan 13, and clicking the down arrow moves me to Jan 11. I don't know why, but by my intuition, that's backward. To my way of thinking, clicking down, as if continuing down the page, should make the number become more/forward/later, whille clicking up should make the number become less/backward/earlier. Of course I realize that the standard practice in software is to do exactly the opposite, but even after years of struggling with it, it still feels wrong to me, and I still click the wrong arrow as often as not. Wow! I've never had any problem with the concept that the up-arrow in such situations moves to a higher number. I think it all depends on how we imagine whichever continuum those buttons increment/decrement is organized. For instance, I have no problem imagining 2 as a higher number than 1, so it's easy for me to click the up-arrow to raise the number from 1 to 2, and the down-arrow to lower it from 1 to 0. However, with alphabets, I imagine A as the top and Z as the bottom, so when such a setup makes me click the up-arrow to move from A to B, that's when I have problems, because there shouldn't be anything to move up from A to, in my mind. I should click the down-arrow to move from A to B. Same with layers -- I can easily imagine layer 1 as being the top layer and layer 4 being the bottom layer. But I can also see the dichotomy in my mental image of pure numbers moving up from 1 to 2, but numbered-items moving down from item-1 to item-2. I've been using computers for so long I don't know if my thinking is conditioned by my computer usage or if it was already in place. But I think that such things are the main basis in the problems any of us have (and the concurrent complaints) with any/all user-interfaces. We think they're great and intuitive when their logic follows our own, and we think they're stupid/poorly-developed/counter-intuitive when their logic runs counter to our own. There isn't any universally-agreeable, really intuitive way of doing things. At least as far as I understand things. The moment you make something intuitive for person A, you've likely made it counter-intuitive for person B. So the poor people who design user interfaces are always receiving the same messages of complaint, no matter how they alter the user interface. It's just the people sending the messages which change from complaint to compliment or vice-versa. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
dc wrote: Mark D Lew écrit: Of course I realize that the standard practice in software is to do exactly the opposite, but even after years of struggling with it, it still feels wrong to me, and I still click the wrong arrow as often as not. Nice to know I'm not the only one! I guess this is the logic of anyone who thinks of this as of reading... Page down takes you to the next page, not to the preceding one. But you see, right there is a major intuition flaw for some people -- my mother-in-law, for instance, had the hardest time getting Page-Down (and indeed the whole downward-scrolling concept) and Page-Up (and the concept of up-scrolling) since when you click the Page-Down button the actual image on the screen moves UP. She (and I'm sure lots of other users) feel that when you click the up-scroll icon, the image should do what you are telling it to do, and actually move UP the screen. So as I mentioned in another post a minute ago -- there will NEVER be a user interface that all will agree upon as being intuitive. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
But I think that such things are the main basis in the problems any of us have (and the concurrent complaints) with any/all user-interfaces. We think they're great and intuitive when their logic follows our own, and we think they're stupid/poorly-developed/counter-intuitive when their logic runs counter to our own. There isn't any universally-agreeable, really intuitive way of doing things. At least as far as I understand things. The moment you make something intuitive for person A, you've likely made it counter-intuitive for person B. I've pointed out what I think the mental analogy should be, as follows: 1st line of lyrics 2nd line of lyrics 3rd line of lyrics which is 1 2 3 and it seems there are some people who see this as the intuitive ordering: 3 2 1 It seems to me this must be like the left/right brained thing. Those of us seeing visual lists (1. 2. 3.) and those thinking of numbering logic (2 is 'higher' than one). For instance, I have no problem imagining 2 as a higher number than 1, so it's easy for me to click the up-arrow to raise the number from 1 to 2, and the down-arrow to lower it from 1 to 0. I don't have a problem with it, I just always click the wrong arrow once at the beginning of each edit (not using it everyday). I was just wondering if it's one of those things that no-one ever complained about because it's never the most pressing thing (always something bigger broken!). -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
On 12 Jan 2006 at 20:12, Christopher Smith wrote: Some more inconsistencies: In Speedy Entry, Shift-DOWN Arrow changes from Layer 1 to Layer 2. Eh? Shift-Down Arrow moves to the frame below the one you're already in. Shift-Apostrophe changes layers. At least, that's the way it has always been on Windows in US versions of Finale. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
On Jan 13, 2006, at 8:54 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 12 Jan 2006 at 20:12, Christopher Smith wrote: Some more inconsistencies: In Speedy Entry, Shift-DOWN Arrow changes from Layer 1 to Layer 2. Eh? Shift-Down Arrow moves to the frame below the one you're already in. Shift-Apostrophe changes layers. At least, that's the way it has always been on Windows in US versions of Finale. Must be a Mac thing. Return moves down a frame in Mac, and Shift-Return moves up. Oh well, considering how many inconsistencies there are between the Windows and Mac standard operating procedures, it is amazing that the two versions of Finale are as similar as they are in almost every other way. But my point stands, that arrow up sometimes means move from 1 to 2, whereas arrow down in other instances means the same thing. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
On 13.01.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: Eh? Shift-Down Arrow moves to the frame below the one you're already in. Shift-Apostrophe changes layers. At least, that's the way it has always been on Windows in US versions of Finale. Must be a difference between Mac and Win. However, on Mac Shift-Apostrophe changes voices, not layers, and I am wondering whether you mixed the two up. If not this is actually quite a major difference in functionality, as far as I can see, as there are four layers, which on the Mac you can change up and down with shift-arrow, while there are only two voices and only one key combination to change between them. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
Quoted from the book Finale 2005 Power!, Chapter 3, section on Speedy Entry (see http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/resources/book_finalepower.aspx where this chapter can be downloaded for free): To move between layers on Windows, hold down Shift and press the ‘ (apostrophe) key; and on Macintosh, hold down Shift and use the up and down arrows. On 13 Jan 2006, at 15:19, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.01.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: Eh? Shift-Down Arrow moves to the frame below the one you're already in. Shift-Apostrophe changes layers. At least, that's the way it has always been on Windows in US versions of Finale. Must be a difference between Mac and Win. However, on Mac Shift-Apostrophe changes voices, not layers, and I am wondering whether you mixed the two up. If not this is actually quite a major difference in functionality, as far as I can see, as there are four layers, which on the Mac you can change up and down with shift-arrow, while there are only two voices and only one key combination to change between them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
On 13.01.2006 Michael Cook wrote: Quoted from the book Finale 2005 Power!, Chapter 3, section on Speedy Entry (see http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/resources/book_finalepower.aspx where this chapter can be downloaded for free): To move between layers on Windows, hold down Shift and press the ‘ (apostrophe) key; and on Macintosh, hold down Shift and use the up and down arrows. Ah, so there really is a big difference. Good to know, thanks. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Edit Lyrics
To anyone who wouldn't already know: I found an error in the note on page 16 (of the pdf file) in that sample chapter Michael mentioned. Quote: You can use Alt-Shift-# and Option-Shift-# to change layers at any time, just as you can with the Simple Entry Caret. On the mac version it's Command-Option-# not Option-Shift-#, as I mentioned earlier. Don Hart hartmusic.com on 1/13/06 9:11 AM, Michael Cook at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoted from the book Finale 2005 Power!, Chapter 3, section on Speedy Entry (see http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/resources/book_finalepower.aspx where this chapter can be downloaded for free): To move between layers on Windows, hold down Shift and press the (apostrophe) key; and on Macintosh, hold down Shift and use the up and down arrows. On 13 Jan 2006, at 15:19, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.01.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: Eh? Shift-Down Arrow moves to the frame below the one you're already in. Shift-Apostrophe changes layers. At least, that's the way it has always been on Windows in US versions of Finale. Must be a difference between Mac and Win. However, on Mac Shift-Apostrophe changes voices, not layers, and I am wondering whether you mixed the two up. If not this is actually quite a major difference in functionality, as far as I can see, as there are four layers, which on the Mac you can change up and down with shift-arrow, while there are only two voices and only one key combination to change between them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Font problem
Hello, I use Finale 2005, and just upgraded to Mac OS 10.4.4 from 10.3.9. I deleted that apple.com.ATS folder, as instructed. Most of my fonts show up fine, but I noticed, in the first file I opened, that an Engraver font accent-with-staccato shows up as a box in its flipped form. The regular one is fine. I double clicked it. In the dialog box, the flipped form shows up as that box. When I go to change it, the correct flipped accent-staccato has already been selected. But it shows up as the box again when I hit OK, and remains as the box when I leave the articulations dialog box. Has anyone encountered and solved this problem? Thank you very much in advance, David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Intel Macs out
Great plan, but you have to wonder if MakeMusic has an Intel mac development system yet. Hey Eric, more encouraging news, Carla just posted on the MM forum the following As Bill Wolff, MakeMusic CEO, announced on the Forums last June, we are actively working on developing Finale for the Mac Intel. While initial testing of Finale seems positive on a Developer Transition Kit from Apple, I am reluctant to base any official statements upon it. Once we get our hands on a real Mac Intel machine (on order, already shipped), we will have more definite information Hopefully the previous negativity that we were all feeling is lifting with the news that MM bought one of the first Mac Intel developer machines immediately as they came out, and have now splashed out on the first run of production machines. If that isn't a flag waving with the words we're working on it then I don't know what is. -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Intel Macs out
This is indeed good news. I hope they can get it released when Finale 2007 comes out, which is late summer if they hold to what they have been doing recently. Simon Troup wrote: Great plan, but you have to wonder if MakeMusic has an Intel mac development system yet. Hey Eric, more encouraging news, Carla just posted on the MM forum the following As Bill Wolff, MakeMusic CEO, announced on the Forums last June, we are actively working on developing Finale for the Mac Intel. While initial testing of Finale seems positive on a Developer Transition Kit from Apple, I am reluctant to base any official statements upon it. Once we get our hands on a real Mac Intel machine (on order, already shipped), we will have more definite information Hopefully the previous negativity that we were all feeling is lifting with the news that MM bought one of the first Mac Intel developer machines immediately as they came out, and have now splashed out on the first run of production machines. If that isn't a flag waving with the words we're working on it then I don't know what is. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Intel Macs out
Le 06-01-13 à 22:45, Eric Dannewitz a écrit :This is indeed good news. I hope they can get it released when Finale 2007 comes out, which is late summer if they hold to what they have been doing recently. I'm curious. Would an Finale MacIntel version (2007?) work with my actual setup(non-Intel), a dual 1.8 GHz G5? Eric DussaultFinale 2006c for MacReal-time Finale discussion - http://www.finaleirc.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Intel Macs out
It should work fine. A Universal Binary, which is what Apple is pushing, works on both Intel Macs and PowerPC Macs. Éric Dussault wrote: I'm curious. Would an Finale MacIntel version (2007?) work with my actual setup(non-Intel), a dual 1.8 GHz G5? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Font problem
David, Apple has been messing around with TrueType fonts in OS X to accommodate native Windows versions, and STILL don't have it right. The glyph you are talking about in Engraver is Shift-Opt-6 and will not display or print properly with the TrueType version. Other broken combinations include Shift-Opt-2 and 5, and one more I can't think of at the moment. I am not up to speed on font technicalities, even though I have created a few; I am more on the artistic side rather than the technical. If you have access to the PostScript versions, use those...you will have all characters available. I am continuing to try to solve this problem, and I welcome any input from anyone who knows. Bill Duncan Hello, I use Finale 2005, and just upgraded to Mac OS 10.4.4 from 10.3.9. I deleted that apple.com.ATS folder, as instructed. Most of my fonts show up fine, but I noticed, in the first file I opened, that an Engraver font accent-with-staccato shows up as a box in its flipped form. The regular one is fine. I double clicked it. In the dialog box, the flipped form shows up as that box. When I go to change it, the correct flipped accent-staccato has already been selected. But it shows up as the box again when I hit OK, and remains as the box when I leave the articulations dialog box. Has anyone encountered and solved this problem? Thank you very much in advance, David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Font problem
David, I believe downloading and installing the MakeMusic Macintosh FontPack fixes this particular problem. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 13 Jan 2006, at 11:31 AM, David Froom wrote: Hello, I use Finale 2005, and just upgraded to Mac OS 10.4.4 from 10.3.9. I deleted that apple.com.ATS folder, as instructed. Most of my fonts show up fine, but I noticed, in the first file I opened, that an Engraver font accent-with-staccato shows up as a box in its flipped form. The regular one is fine. I double clicked it. In the dialog box, the flipped form shows up as that box. When I go to change it, the correct flipped accent-staccato has already been selected. But it shows up as the box again when I hit OK, and remains as the box when I leave the articulations dialog box. Has anyone encountered and solved this problem? Thank you very much in advance, David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Intel Macs out
Hi all, From what I have gathered up here at MacWorld this week, applications that are processor independent will still work even if they are programmed to run on Altivec as long as they don't *rely* on Altivec technology to run (in other words, if an app can run on both PowerPC (using Altivec technology) and the new MacIntel technology.) Because the processors in the MacIntel machines are different (and the Altivec technology doesn't exist anymore) apps that are programmed to run using only the Altivec technology only won't run under Rosettabut Rosetta isn't the limiting factor per se...the processors and programming combination is the limiting factor in this case. The Get Info window of an application will show which binary is being used on the MacIntel machines i.e. GeneralKind: Your_Application (Universal) will show that the software is using universal binary. Also, much the same way we can choose which application to use to open a document with Get InfoOpen With we will be able to check a box that says Open using Rosetta in the Get Info window. Here is what won't run under Rosetta: http://tinyurl.com/9uuug ** Rosetta does not run the following: Applications built for any version of the Mac OS earlier than Mac OS X —that means Mac OS 9, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 7, and so forth The Classic environment Screensavers written for the PowerPC architecture Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane Applications that require a G5 processor Applications that depend on one or more PowerPC-only kernel extensions Kernel extensions Java applications with JNI libraries Java applets in applications that Rosetta can translate; that means a web browser that Rosetta can run translated will not be able to load Java applets. It has been a fun week up here in SF. I will do the usual posting of the links to some of the vendors I liked at the show as soon as I get that put together. One other exciting thing that I liked about the new iMacs which pertains to us is that the new MacIntel iMacs will have the extended desktop feature, not just mirroring when a second monitor is connected. I was happy to hear this and I think these new machines will be a good choice for many of us once the kinks are worked out. Right now, I'm going to get caught up on sleepI'm exhausted! Best, Karen On Jan 12, 2006, at 2:40 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 12.01.2006 A-NO-NE Music wrote: The thing sure to be slower is app which utilizes AltiVec. For that, both NI and Finale are most likely unaffected. The last I heard anything Altivec simply won't run in Rosetta. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
