On 26.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
But I don't believe it's
nearly as simple as you want to believe it to be -- were it so, it
would already have been changed, I think.
This is an assumption I have long given up to share with Make Music
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
On 24 Sep 2007 at 22:39, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
It cannot be all that difficult since Sibelius never
had the problem in the first place. And Sibelius also started on a
machine with display postscript (the Acorn Archimedes).
You last sentence rather contradicts your first, seems to me, as
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
And Acrobat Reader in the past has been able to render Finale's lines
onscreen without any problem. In my experience it was Acrobat Reader
7 that introduced the problem in the first place (something you'd see
in any version of Acrobat without line smoothing
dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit:
But, again, the problem as I see it is *not* with Finale, but with
Acrobat's incorrect line smoothing. I don't know why Finale sends
multiple thin lines instead of a single line with a particular
thickness to the print driver, but perhaps there's a reason for
dc wrote, on 9/24/2007 2:02 AM:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrit:
This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing
function produces a perfect display. Finale prints to Postscript and
compiles Postscript quite differently.
Does this work with any kind of font? TT or PS or OT?
dc wrote, on 9/24/2007 8:12 AM:
I can't get Compile PS to work. Finale
crashes if I include the fonts. And it gives nice staff lines if I
don't, but without the fonts (except Maestro, for some reason)... The
resulting PDF has only two fonts listed: Maestro and Courier.
Courier is the normal
On 24 Sep 2007 at 8:01, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
And Acrobat Reader in the past has been able to render Finale's lines
onscreen without any problem. In my experience it was Acrobat Reader
7 that introduced the problem in the first place (something
On 24 Sep 2007 at 8:02, dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit:
But, again, the problem as I see it is *not* with Finale, but with
Acrobat's incorrect line smoothing. I don't know why Finale sends
multiple thin lines instead of a single line with a particular
thickness to the print driver, but
On 24 Sep 2007 at 8:37, dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit:
But that is not a problem of the PDF file, but of the program
rendering the PDF. Acrobat Reader *used* to render Finale staff lines
just fine (version 6), but since version 7, it has been screwed up
(though it's been improved in
On 24 Sep 2007 at 16:54, dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit:
Acrobat Reader 6 would render staff lines smoothly *if* you turned on
line smoothing.
I didn't give staff lines of the same thickness, regardless of the
settings. I still have it on an old machine and have tried both settings.
, with
success...
Kurt
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von dhbailey
Gesendet: Montag, 24. September 2007 12:37
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit
On 24.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, for this Windows user, it was new when Acrobat Reader 7 came
out and couldn't display Finale-produced PDFs well. This may not be
*your* experience, but it is certainly what many Windows users saw
Well, from input to this thread, and from many, many,
On 24.09.2007 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
As I say, the only thing Finale's Compile Postscript Listing doesn't do is
compile the TIFF graphics with it.
Have you tried using EPS graphics instead?
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
but
here are some examples that work in Acrobat on Mac but not in
Preview:
I only tried the first example, but it displays fine in Preview. In fact
it looks 1000 times more beautiful in Preview than it does in Reader 8
on Mac. The Reader 8 rendition
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems
whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the
Preview program on Mac.
No, now we really are getting confused here. The screen display of
Windows produced Finale PDFs is
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
I have no problems with Finale and PDF on Windows. I use Acrobat pro 7 and
sometimes do 30 PDFs a day. They are crisp and clean. Don't blame Finale -
check your program and settings.
You mean in printout or on screen? I don't think there ever was a
problem in
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality between
in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius.
You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files
produced using default settings, as opposed to created with
Kurt Gnos wrote:
[snip]
I wish our list could be strong enough to DEMAND this.
[snip]
The demands/requests are there -- what is needed is for MakeMusic to
respond in a manner which shows that they care about their installed
customer base, instead of using Finale-generated income to support
from Sibelius to Finale
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
I posted 3 new files...
GWV529-Finale.pdf
is a PDF of the Finale file.
GWV529-Sibelius.pdf
is a PDF of the Sibelius first reading of the XML generated by Finale.
GWV529-Sibelius-cleaned-up.pdf
is a PDF of the file after it was cleaned
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
But here is a simple solution. If the staff lines are troubling you - just
go to document options - Lines and curves - and set the line thickness of
staff lines to a lower value - I used 0.003 in my sample PDF that you can
get from:
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems
whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to
be the
Preview program on Mac.
No, now we really are getting confused
On Sep 23, 2007, at 8:11 AM, dc wrote:
dhbailey écrit:
My bet would be that there is a larger flow from Finale to
Sibelius than the other way around.
Of course! MM is doing its best to send its users to Sibelius...
I know many people who have made the switch from F to S, and none
who
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems
whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the
Preview program on Mac.
No, now we really
At 8:03 AM -0400 9/23/07, dhbailey wrote:
It would be very interesting to see the amount of cross-grade sales
of Sibelius for Finale-users and compare that with cross-grade sales
of Finale for Sibelius users.
My bet would be that there is a larger flow from Finale to Sibelius
than the
On Sep 23, 2007, at 1:20 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems
whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems
to be
Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von Johannes Gebauer
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 17:23
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote:
But here is a simple solution
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is
also
a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily.
This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing
function produces a perfect display. Finale prints to Postscript and
compiles Postscript quite
PS to previous: The reason this is very important for me is that Compile
Postscript Listing does *not* include embedded graphics. For many scores, I
need them, and have had to fall back on printing to Postscript and its
poor results.
Dennis
___
On 23.09.2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by Compile
Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was your
printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were you printing
to?
No, he just used very thin lines. If
On 23.09.2007 Christopher Smith wrote:
Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME
Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great.
But the lines should be grey. They are thinner than one pixel, so the
anti-aliasing should make it
Johannes wrote:
No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will look
pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high
magnification you will still see that the lines don't anti-alias, and
display slightly different thicknesses.
The lines are very thin,
: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess,
is
also
a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily.
This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript
Listing
function produces a perfect
-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 22:05
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
PS to previous: The reason this is very important for me is that
Compile
On 23 Sep 2007 at 10:38, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
but
here are some examples that work in Acrobat on Mac but not in
Preview:
I only tried the first example, but it displays fine in Preview. In fact
it looks 1000 times more beautiful in Preview
22:22
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Johannes wrote:
No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will
look
pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high
magnification you will still see
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:10, dc wrote:
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
I posted 3 new files...
GWV529-Finale.pdf
is a PDF of the Finale file.
GWV529-Sibelius.pdf
is a PDF of the Sibelius first reading of the XML generated by Finale.
GWV529-Sibelius-cleaned-up.pdf
is a PDF of the file after it
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:07, dc wrote:
David W. Fenton écrit:
You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files
produced using default settings, as opposed to created with the kinds
of bautiful layout and settings that you, for instance, produce in
your editions. PDF quality
you can send me a Finale File using embedded Graphics, and I will print it
using Acrobat 7 Pro in XP and upload the output.
Kurt,
Most of my files are 20-100MB with their embedded graphics -- a tad too
large to send. But I am trying another set of new drivers, and other than
the staff lines,
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:20, dc wrote:
We've already discussed this several
times (with each new version of Finale), and the problem arises from the
fact that where the lines in Sibelius PDFs (and perhaps MacFin PDFs) are
real lines of the proper thickness, Finale lines are made of several thin
On 23 Sep 2007 at 21:37, Kurt Gnos wrote:
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is
also a kind of postscript,
Huh? How does Finale on Windows utilize PS onscreen? The fact is, it
doesn't.
For that matter, on Mac, display PS *is* used for rendering, but at
the
On 23 Sep 2007 at 15:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is
also
a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily.
This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing
function produces a perfect display.
On 23 Sep 2007 at 10:33, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality
between
in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius.
You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files
On 23 Sep 2007 at 22:02, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
The problem with the windows PDF output displayed in Reader is that all
the lines are different thickness, extremely thick, and the notes are so
blotchy one can't read them.
Well, that's a horse of a different color.
On every PC I've ever
On 23 Sep 2007 at 22:09, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by
Compile Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was
your printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 23.09.2007 Christopher Smith wrote:
Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but
only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but
Reader 8 looks great.
But the lines should be grey. They are thinner
Dennis,
Try
yousendit.com
for large files. They allow files to be sent up to 100mb when you
register. I find it very useful.
Christopher
On Sep 23, 2007, at 5:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you can send me a Finale File using embedded Graphics, and I will
print it
using Acrobat 7
On 9/22/07, dc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, Kim. This is very interesting. But a bit appalling! I'd hardly
consider this as a conversion when I see all that is lost: beaming,
fonts, layout, figured bass. What happens to articulations and expressions?
Well, sending a from Finale to
dc wrote:
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
I generated sample files for you at
http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/dennis/
The Sibelius file is the original, the converted PDF is marked as Finale.
As you can see, the figured bass gets mucked up a lot, but the note
values are pretty much dead on.
On 22.09.2007 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
No to be honest, and I'll be very happy when I get done with the last
15 finale files. Then that's it for me. I know you have a lot more
than me however!
So tell us, how is your Sibelius experience? Have you found it to be
better, quicker, more powerful,
On 22.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
The only way that files will ever be truly convertible with complete perfection
and complete transparency in the process will be when the two companies sit
down and agree on a file format that both will use. We know that will never
happen.
Well, I am not so
dc wrote:
Johannes Gebauer écrit:
How about bugs?
I've been lurking on the Sibelius list for quite a while now, since I'm
seriously thinking of switching, and there are hardly any complaints
about outright bugs, compared to what one reads here. And then, another
major difference is that in
On 9/22/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So tell us, how is your Sibelius experience? Have you found it to be
better, quicker, more powerful, easier to learn?
Yes. Yes, yes, and Yes.
But I know you are a very detailed Finale user, really a top notch
expert, just like Dennis (and
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
Why, oh why, can't Finale produce decent looking PDF files?
Windows? It does if you Compile Postscript Listing. Whatever method they
use to print to Postscript is flawed, but the compilation is great.
Here's an example from two weeks ago. It has flaws, but they're mine.
dc wrote, on 9/22/2007 8:42 AM:
Why, oh why, can't Finale produce decent looking PDF files? Since MM
only reacts if many people complain, I urge all Windows Finalists to
complain about the crappy PDFs produced by Finale.
Here's an example from two weeks ago. It has flaws, but they're mine. :)
[Sorry for duplicates, folks; I'm doing some email transitioning, and
one of my addresses isn't registered on the Finale list.]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrit:
Here's an example from two weeks ago. It has flaws, but they're mine. :)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrit:
Here's an example from two weeks ago. It has flaws, but they're mine. :)
http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/waam/low-clouds-evening-wind.pdf
You're right, it does look good. So how do you go about producing it? Will
it work with Win2K?
I don't know. It
Just noticed the following on the SibeliusMusic.com Chat page:
Re: How are Your Scores Playing?
Posted by Daniel at Sibelius - 10:45, 22 Sep 2007
Tony Matthews wrote:
What is worrying is that all the problems with the playback reported by
existing users of the software are
On 22-Sep-07, at 8:42 AM, dc wrote:
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
I generated sample files for you at
http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/dennis/
Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality
between in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius.
Why, oh why, can't
On 22.09.2007 Christopher Smith wrote:
The Finale PDF is apparently a Windows-produced PDF, and it shows up with grey
lines (instead of black) when viewed onscreen using Preview (the Mac catch-all
viewing program). This seems to be the case with most Windows PDFs I see.
However, when I view
On 22 Sep 2007 at 4:26, dhbailey wrote:
The only way that files will ever be truly convertible with complete
perfection and complete transparency in the process will be when the two
companies sit down and agree on a file format that both will use. We
know that will never happen.
That's
On 22 Sep 2007 at 11:13, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 22.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
The only way that files will ever be truly convertible with complete
perfection and complete transparency in the process will be when the two
companies sit down and agree on a file format that both will use.
On 22 Sep 2007 at 12:42, dc wrote:
My feeling is that MM never provided backwards compatibility
because they thought this would force users to upgrade.
As a working programmer myself, I see it completely differently.
First off, MM is on a yearly release schedule, whereas Sibelius is
not.
On 22.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
The key is that the converter has to understand the native methods
for each part of the conversion. If Sibelius has a native figured
bass capability, then the converter needs to take Finale figured bass
and convert it to that. The problem with Finale is
On 22 Sep 2007 at 14:42, dc wrote:
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
I generated sample files for you at
http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/dennis/
Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality between
in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius.
You know, I look at
On 22 Sep 2007 at 16:52, dc wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrit:
Windows? It does if you Compile Postscript Listing. Whatever method they
use to print to Postscript is flawed, but the compilation is great.
Here's an example from two weeks ago. It has flaws, but they're mine. :)
On 22 Sep 2007 at 16:50, Christopher Smith wrote:
The Finale PDF is apparently a Windows-produced PDF, and it shows up
with grey lines (instead of black) when viewed onscreen using Preview
(the Mac catch-all viewing program). This seems to be the case with
most Windows PDFs I see.
On 9/22/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problems in Kim's example seem to me to have zilch to do with PDF
output and everything to do with input that has not had anything at
all done to it to make it look right.
I'm not sure I follow your point. Did you mean the layout of the
On 22 Sep 2007 at 19:09, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 9/22/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problems in Kim's example seem to me to have zilch to do with PDF
output and everything to do with input that has not had anything at
all done to it to make it look right.
I'm not
On 9/22/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you post a PDF derived from the source Finale file?
Sure thing:
http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/dennis/
I posted 3 new files...
GWV529-Finale.pdf
is a PDF of the Finale file.
GWV529-Sibelius.pdf
is a PDF of the Sibelius first
I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems
whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the
Preview program on Mac.
At least you ask the question yourself - Another issue for PDF on screen
(actually, I just need it for printing most of the time, and
PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. September 2007 15:12
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Kim Patrick Clow écrit:
Why, oh why, can't Finale produce decent looking PDF files?
Windows? It does if you Compile Postscript Listing. Whatever method
...
I wish our list could be strong enough to DEMAND this.
Kurt
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von David W. Fenton
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. September 2007 23:41
An: finale@shsu.edu
Betreff: Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius
On 23 Sep 2007 at 2:34, Kurt Gnos wrote:
Really - how about MakeMusic and
Sibelius sitting down and discussing their future. I mean, they share most
of the professional (and many less professional, no qualification
intended) users wanting to notate musical scores.
Well, companies usually
That is really sad. MakeMusic really needs to get it's ass in gear.
dc wrote:
Johannes Gebauer écrit:
How about bugs?
I've been lurking on the Sibelius list for quite a while now, since
I'm seriously thinking of switching, and there are hardly any
complaints about outright bugs, compared
Kurt Gnos wrote, on 9/22/2007 8:04 PM:
I have no problems with Finale and PDF on Windows. I use Acrobat pro 7 and
sometimes do 30 PDFs a day. They are crisp and clean. Don't blame Finale -
check your program and settings.
Can you post a PDF example on your website? One that is *printed* from
On 9/21/07, dc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has anyone tried converting Sibelius 4 files to Finale with the Dolet 3
plug-in? There is no demo version, so I'm wondering how good the conversion
is. What are the limitations? What happens to the figured bass, since
Finale doesn't have an equivalent
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