e ID's simply select a data set that matches post 1970 rather than
one that actually matches the fully validated pre-1970 data so again
some timezone ID's simply return poor information where their being
removed would be a safer approach ... the whole system is still
ield
identifying the correct local location.
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DST management simply because it was too difficult to include.
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wait until some of the higher level facilities decide on
a new language before doing anything. github will be changing and there
is no point trying to push something different to their 'dictates' even
if there is no complete agreement on what 'it' deci
nk
I could see earlier ... and I have corrected that ...
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more difficult to navigate ... Linking to github in discussions does
not always produce the same document even ignoring the fact that these
documents will be evolving, so it is important to have a set of
non-github documentation sooner rather than later.
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On 03/06/2020 08:23, Lester Caine wrote:
On 02/06/2020 22:17, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
02.06.2020 21:45, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
I think that is extremely confusing, and not acceptable.
That's why everyone was given several years to replace CURRENT_TIME
with LOCALTIME and don'
d handling CLIENT local times is an interface problem and not
something which should be inconsistent in the core data ... especially
when one does not know what future time offsets will actually be ...
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an be found in the development repository
https://github.com/eggert/tz
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tz
data used to provide that normalization! The FB4 'timezone' is yet
another unreliable data source! And this is the same for historic data
and published calendars for the coming 6 months ...
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ning about not using this with pre 1970 dates
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Fi
The fact that the TZ database also drops validated rule changes prior
to 1970 is another critical element here ... )
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acy as provided by the TZ database it is
already broken ... At least the documentation should point out the
limitations of the crude shortcut that as been adopted ...
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ll of open data, but things have progressed to a
point where NOT using HTTPS is virtually impossible without other agro.
That said, letsencrypt can't be relied on to complete a renewal cycle
... I've just had manually clean up some certs myself so you have to
keep on top of every one
well by any of the current TZ offerings. That is where a TZ
identifier to go with the time is important and the simple 'offset' has
never worked.
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fixes very little but
adds more things to be patched by real applications ...
Timezone data has a one second accuracy and MANY edge cases will hit
that so anything built in must be able to process that data!
Simply pull it all until a full solution can be addressed!
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time zone 101
20+ years ago and nothing has changed since ... if you ONLY want local
time then just use that instead of UTC and ignore the DST overlap problems.
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World War 2 archival material can not reliably use the rules supplied
because different systems may not have the proper pre-1970 data :( We do
not actually have any indication if the rule set is valid pre-1970. This
is a basic implementation detail for any system trying to use TZ data :(
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same discussion is in part being had
about the Java timezone handling ... there is no consensus on how it
should be done!
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eases ...
https://data.iana.org/time-zones/
and the current development release is at https://github.com/eggert/tz
which has tz changes that have not yet been publicly released.
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y to when
processing the data, so we need access to ALL the historic changes to
the rules or at least a copy of the rules used to store data and the
current rules with some mechanism to update that data ...
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y updating the rules without any warning causes all
sorts of problems?
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TZ is simply not the solution for most cases - current day or
historic ... and the further restrictions FB4 introduces just makes
matters worse!
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MySQL situations a few times in the last year!
So all we are asking for is HELP with the code changes that result from
changes to the PHP API to keep this available.
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wire is perhaps another reason that simply making it natively
work with second accuracy rather than minute would have been a step in
the right direction? At least that would be more compatible with some of
the other approaches and make cross working a little eas
fails if the
TZ data changes between storing the offset time and reading it.
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ferenced and in
the absence of anything else this has to be the server. That is until
such time as we can rely on the local source being able to reliably
identify it's provenance. The VERSION of TZ data being used is an
essential element that currently is a complete gamble ...
--
based tuner ... it can be a problem at times when
one changes something working out just which bit HAS broken ... thg is
also up and working again after rolling back to an older build that
matches the available hggit ... so now to add some new code! )
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---
NK has a change?
UserManager = Legacy_UserManager I think had the ", Srp" in the earlier
version and it's that which I was adding back first ... leaving it out THEN
AuthServer = Legacy_Auth, Srp is not causing a problem!
Now back to trying to find out why streaming video is brok
PHP,
so DO I need to worry about SRP on this setup?
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windows machine just to get
something working for now but all I've been doing for the last week is
trying to get a stable development platform again ... however just had
another report of a problem on a client website so need to fix that ...
sites that have run for years without any problem
s that avoid the new bits in FB3 but
with FB4 now appearing there is a further minefield on the horizon with
timezone management hand grenades on the side! So just where DO I start
trying to get back to a stable platform?
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l network link and I don't need any more than that so why should I
have to do any more than getting a single user working?
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pre-1970 data, but there is no way
currently of distributing this material :(
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acy_UserManager, Srp
WireCrypt = Disabled
And I am connecting and working ... AVOIDING following the Compatibility
chapter ... so where am I going wrong?
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g FB2.x and FB3 systems in parallel? Certainly
I've had to strip everything but Legacy_Auth and Legacy_UserManager in
order to get my PHP setups to run with FB3! So is FB4 any different?
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machines on the network.
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as well? Is it better to keep
specialist elements like databases on their own drives?
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18i was
released on the 31st December, but there is no way of ensuring that the
data you are using currently will match that which the OS is working
with tomorrow! This method of working with timezones was not thought out
at all and is why FB4 timezone handling is badly broken!
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sets to be used
for everything?
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On 26/10/2018 16:18, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 26/10/2018 12:01, Lester Caine wrote:
On 26/10/2018 14:53, Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
Yes, it gonna be merged from PR soon.
What is the status for time zone support? Is it going to be
included in
Firebird 4 or not?
But the very
data.
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became the standard some time back but there will still be
pockets of users who split it ... but certainly LOCAL_TIMESTAMP makes a
lot more sense as a result :(
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ithin Firebird. Ideally we
need 'next' outside of Firebird. There are some places where 'between'
works and others where 'gt/lt' IS the correct process in order to remove
problems cause by differing precision settings.
--
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---
t ... no need to populate
vast tables of transitions ... This is useful where you have more than
one set of rules so you can select the right version when processing and
upgrade to a new version ... If you update the table of transitions
before establishing if any data needs amending you don
es the rule set and
creates what is needed on the fly. And for the majority of non-dst
timezones the rule is the transition ...
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a more accurate setup than
any of the other engines ... and adding the geolocation element even
helps get the calendar right. The fact that we use 'day.time' natively
already makes Firebird ideal for sorting a lot more than just timezone!
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--
should at least be capable of the same level of accuracy.
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On 05/06/18 09:39, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
On 5-6-2018 10:16, Lester Caine wrote:
On 05/06/18 08:50, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
That naming doesn't make much sense to me, and I actually found the
RULE_START and RULE_END naming pretty clear and self-explanatory.
Except that it's not the r
s on the rules currently while they put TZIF into a formal
RFC standard. These standards are not ideal but do provide a common set
of rules such as names of fields ...
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date' the limited format
that is proposed here is designed to be used from.
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used in several timezone rule sets.
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locally cached data from that.
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possibility
Lester could add missed historical rules, i think.
One of the items on my back burner is a Firebird powered TZDist service
which would provide versioned sets of rules and the check facility for
individual timezones. The data would simply be a Firebird database ...
The problem as always
as if TZ add new timezones how are the ones hard
coded in Firebird updated ...
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reciate the details and I welcome any
contributions to site!
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databases 'solutions' as
well. As it currently stands it's no use to my applications so no reason
to even bother testing it ...
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on 'internet devices'. I have also been advised of a
new ietf task group to address the Geolocate Extension and the Time Zone
Information Format bu these will be some time reaching an RFC stage :(
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On 12/05/18 00:32, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 11/05/2018 19:48, Lester Caine wrote:
There is no information on those pages covering just what way the base
TZ data is processed. I think it is probably safe to assume that it is
unusable for providing timezone offsets prior to 1970
On 11/05/18 23:32, Vlad Khorsun via Firebird-devel wrote:
12.05.2018 1:12, Lester Caine wrote:
On 11/05/18 20:37, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
* PST is Pitcairn or Pacific, with the same offset, they are
considered different time zones
ICU data is derived from TZ data hosted by IANA
est 'IST' is used by them for India
Standard Time but it would be nice if there was an easy way to confirm
that? Certainly I'm not seeing data in zoneinfo64.txt for Isle of man,
Jersey, Guernsey or Belfast so I suspect they are not valid pre-1970 :(
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
ve not seen it. It provides
nice tidy definitions of many of the key terms. It also fails to define
just how time zone names are created3 leaving that to the 'publisher'.
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On 11/05/18 16:07, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 11/05/2018 11:55, Lester Caine wrote:
On 11/05/18 15:44, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
If the machine clock goes back one hour because of a DST transition,
the current time overlaps and the same set of numbers are used twice.
No
they use a simple TIMESTAMP where
possible and add the timezone information outside of the stored data.
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On 11/05/18 14:27, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 11/05/2018 10:10, Lester Caine wrote:
Forgot to hit reply list ...
On 11/05/18 12:30, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 11/05/2018 06:54, Lester Caine wrote:
I was having a proper look through the Oracle timezone documentation
Forgot to hit reply list ...
On 11/05/18 12:30, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 11/05/2018 06:54, Lester Caine wrote:
I was having a proper look through the Oracle timezone documentation
and thinking 'how can you get it so wrong'. Does it REALLY have a
ERROR_ON_OVERLAP_TIME fl
s will affect any current data sets world wide, there are
many people working through paper archives just like P Chan has done for
Macau to correct the historic rule sets so once a system is in place
that ALLOWS easy normalization of data it should protect the integrity
of that d
ssing valid backzone id's and even some main
list entries!
The versioning only seems to affect the format of the iles, not the content.
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are only a very small number of changes
to the rule sets each year, but they are likely to affect current stored
data. Simply pretending the problem does not exist - as other databases
do - should not be acceptable these days.
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rrectly - to describe the offset
and not the set of rules plotting the changes to the offset.
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used to create the 'international' timetable when local DST times
are changed at short notice ... TZDist is intended to prevent this
problem, but since there are no active sources we are still stuck with
the miss-match of data between different OS's and system.
--
Leste
he southern hemisphere is reversed
and Australian abbreviations don't follow the same guide. Some tools
could not handle the -ve DST so it's implementation has been delayed,
but the plan is that the correct data will be provided by TZ at least in
future.
--
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--
one' contains a number of historic abbreviations some of
which were inventions and should be ignored, and others are pre 1970 so
not visible in some instances.
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On 10/05/18 17:12, Vlad Khorsun via Firebird-devel wrote:
10.05.2018 19:02, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 10/05/2018 12:53, Lester Caine wrote:
...
And how will the version of TZ data be handled! This is a key element
that has screwed normalized data in the past, and some way to
data in the past, and some way to manage
that normalized data needs to be included in the process.
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On 02/05/18 20:22, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:16, Lester Caine wrote:
On 29/04/18 21:47, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote:
But standard CURRENT_TIME and CURRENT_TIMESTAMP works different than
Firebird, as they returns the "WITH TIME ZONE" types.
local time indication. I
don't want CURRENT_TIME to be loaded with a timezone.
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required then convert TO this
format. This SHOULD be the default and anything else converts from it.
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On 28/02/18 10:29, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
On 28-2-2018 10:54, Lester Caine wrote:
Technically, the SQL Standard knows only one format, and that is
(slightly simplified):
-MM-DD HH24:MI:SS.FF..+/-TZH:TZHM
While this is the 'standard' it has the same fundamental flaw that
i
ly more complex problem than month text handling
especially since even the TZ database can't agree on just what text to use. The
only thing that is consistent is Time OFFSET which uses the '-' sign anyway as
a flag.
A '+' or '-', not just a '-'.
My p
ly since even the TZ database can't agree on just what
text to use. The only thing that is consistent is Time OFFSET which uses
the '-' sign anyway as a flag.
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On 15/12/17 15:41, Leyne, Sean wrote:
> Lester
>
>> The problem I had in the past was with meetings being moved over a DST
>> boundary. And this was in a SINGLE timezone. The software was normalizing
>> everything to UTC time, so that it could be displayed in local time of
'time-zoned', one needs to properly manage the timezone
information and store the identity of the information used to create the
offset! Anything else should not be called 'time-zoned' ...
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ated when in reality
only one or two rules may have changed. The VERSION of TZ data that was
used to normalize the UTC timestamps is just as important as the
location of the event. The two go hand in hand ... and it's the version
data that is missing in the Oracle
On 21/11/17 18:31, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
> On 2017-11-21 18:31, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 21/11/17 16:42, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
>>>
>>> If you need that, you also need to store the actual timezone somewhere.
>>> PostgreSQL for example also uses an offset for t
g data from other databases.
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e when large areas of the planet
still use daylight saving. If I move a meeting from March to April I
need to know the real timezone, a simple hour offset is no good at all.
It's the same old problem as the offset provided by a browser ...
useless for half of the year ...
--
Lester Ca
lly implied by the use of the
COMMIT without any other action. If you have some reason to distinguish
between the older records and the 'XYZ' default records, then this
should be managed specifically, and leaving these as 'null' values
without the 'NOT NULL' constrain
On 24/03/17 21:42, Vlad Khorsun wrote:
> 24.03.2017 21:36, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 24/03/17 17:57, Vlad Khorsun wrote:
>>>> What must be done is specified exactly. And we should suppose that in
>>>> all other aspects data stored in database should not be chan
gically' and the SQL spec does not override that basic
function of a value in an existing record? The DEFAULT value should only
be used to replace a NULL value when a record is added ... full stop.
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ATE of some type. Certainly if a default value is a time stamp
then it is no different to a fixed default value once a new record is added.
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that actually stored, then I would say THAT is a bug. If the stored
field is NULL then either the query should return that or contain the
logic to display it as something else, it should not be 'magic'
depending on some other settings?
--
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---
Working on a single target program *IS* a lot easier than some of the
projects that I'm working with, but having a clean base to build on is
essential? And as I understand it, having one 'release manager'
controlling the 'master' code branch is sensible?
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x27; things we have to put up with with. That SQL and other
programming languages are essentially 'english' is not real case for
only supporting 'english' in the 21st century?
But many programming languages and os's still can't cope with this
problem anyw
ind it strange that people still use OS specific settings on
networked systems which could well have problems with that. None of my
users even know that it's Firebird providing the grunt, as the hack
attempts attest, so shouldn't the inter OS conversion problems be
handled in
with the selected
submodules being a particular snapshot, rather than an active element
you can update.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve
/
refers to the same link and does not require you to log in. Seems any
work by michkap has now been wiped? As a result one gets redirected to
the login screen.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http
is
synced and track individually. Anybody remember the good old days when
one could hit 'sync' and see which blocks of code had been updated ...
one could then simply merge a block or individually scan the files of a
block you were also working on. Not something that is easy to do with
the
ll lower
case, but it was a windows application that transferred the files and
I've seen similar problems several times on cross OS sites!
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces
27;s the
switch to windows UTF-16 transcoding which is the problem we find in
PHP. I thought there WAS a simplification in the process that Windows uses?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http:
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