> Have you installed the Cygwin XServer recently ??
>
> i.e I notice you are linking against -L/usr/X11R6/lib
Oh, crap. Yes, I think I did install the CygWin Xserver. Is the build
process not smart enough to understand which libs to use?
If I include the change you suggest, will that stop the b
> What happened in your case was that a function was declared in the
> system OpenGL headers *and* in the extgl headers.
>
> Erik
Is there something I am doing wrong in my build process, do I need to change
anything? Or is there a fix in CVS?
Jon
__
Can anyone tell me what the "confstatX" directories I keep getting in my
build directories is?
Jon
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iscussions
> Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] Build problems
>
>
> Jon Berndt writes:
> >
> > I've tried building the latest flightgear from CVS. I've updated to the
> > latest version both plib and simgear and they build. However,
> when trying
> > t
> > Why? This doesn't seem right to me? Is there some basis in reality
> > for this change?
>
> What does seem right to you?
> Surely not the way it was before ...
>
> Erik
Are there some before and after shots? Just curious.
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I've downloaded the latest fgfs, plib, and simgear, and as usual I need to
install the latest metakit - which I did. However, the simgear build process
doesn't seem to know it exists. I get this when building simgear:
checking for mk4.h... yes
checking for metakit 2.4.3 or newer... wrong vers
http://www.msnbc.com/news/946048.asp?0cv=CB10
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> I'm no 3d modeling expert, but I have yet to see any 3d modeler with a
> comprehensible gui. 3d modeling is a very complex process and so the
> gui's are also necessarily complex. But with most of them, you can be
> very productive once you learn the various tricks and keyboard
> accelerators,
> Hi,
>
> Andrei has kindly offered to do a bit of web page redesign for the
> FlightGear project. The included message has a link to his proposed
> changes for the front page. What do people think? The sample is up
> at geocities so ignore the advertising; that of course is not part of
> the r
I've got that data, I think. Roskam got it from somewhere else. A lot of
his numbers came from an oft-cited NASA tech note that featured several
aircraft. I'd copy it, but it's huge.
Anyhow, for those guys that have made JSBSim models lately, do we have a
turbine for it?
> From Roskam:
>
> Wt= 6
Speaking of 747's, has anyone made a JSBSim 747 FDM, yet? I've got some
data. If nobody has, I might give that a shot this evening. IT would at
least be a start.
Jon
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> Anyone running FG on XBox/linux yet?
>
> http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/index.php
>
> Dave
Hilarious. I wonder if MS saw that coming.
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> You can say what you want, but simulation cannot render the feeling
> of having a real plane in its hands.
>
> -Fred
Especially when one is at 50 feet at 200 kts with a -90 pitch angle, the
ground emblazoning itself in your field of vision. The adrenaline rush is
just not the same...
:-P
I w
There is a very complete paper on the Schweizer here:
www.dfrc.nasa.gov/DTRS/1990/PDF/H-1563.pdf
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Culp
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:04 PM
> To: flightgear-devel
> Subject: [Flightgear-devel] new
> For those of us using FlightGear to supplement our training for a
> PPL, a Cessna
> 152 would be a great benefit... Not quite the 747 complexity,
> but maybe a good
> starting point... ;)
Just a very quick off-the-top-of-my-head question: could we get a decent
approximation of a C-152 by using
> What do you think we do now? Fair Use is now Fair Use.
>
> g.
http://www.airrace.org/raceCourse.php
http://tinyurl.com/g5io
Jon
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> My biggest concern right now is that nearly all of the screenshots on
> the startup splash screens are of U.S. combat aircraft: they don't
> bother me (though I'd prefer to see Mosquitos, Hurricanes, and Spits),
> but they might turn off a lot of users. Perhaps we could bias them
> more towards
> Well, it was a nice thought while it lasted - developing a
> plug-in for air
> racing fans out there to go online and have a "virtual air race" on a
> "virtual Reno course". It's sad that I have to bring you the bad news but
> things are sometimes just what they are - the Reno/Stead facility
> as
> > > It seems we could invent a competitive flying or even
> > > "dogfighting" game that
> > > didn't involve guns and actually shooting down aircraft.
> >
> > Aerial Paintball.
> >
> > :-)
>
> ..getting hit should _hurt_, change the colors and add a
> ton to the weight? ;-)
:-)
I know (and ca
> It seems we could invent a competitive flying or even
> "dogfighting" game that
> didn't involve guns and actually shooting down aircraft.
Aerial Paintball.
:-)
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Jim wrote:
> Before we get too worked up about this... It has absolutely
> nothing to do with modeling the aircraft. It is only a reference
> point for positioning the 3D model in the scene. All the nose is,
> sans pitot tubes and other items that are not centered, is a
> location easy to ident
Jim:
Do we still have an issue with aa hard reference point between the 3D model
and the FDMs?
I've been thinking about this some more, and I think we might be able to
supply the location of the 0,0,0 point in the FDM structural frame, in which
the aircraft is defined. Would this be helpful?
Jon
How do you plan to model aerodynamics with your helicopter FDM? We set up
JSBSim to allow helicopters to be modeled, but the Rotor class has not yet
been written. If that was written, it could be that JSBSim would allow
helicopters to be modeled. It all depends on how you plan to model all the
aer
> Thanks for picking up on my joke about the O'Reilly book. The biggest
> problem with serious documentation right now is that so much of
> FlightGear is in a state of flux: even the mini-HOWTO's I've written
> fall quickly out of date. I'm not saying that we shouldn't document,
> but anyone work
> > In real life, changing the trim actually causes the elevator or
> > stabilator to move -- our summing up of the two is simply a kludge.
> >
> > David
I have a hunch that modeling the trim tab effects on the elevator and the
resulting movement, etc. would be a worse kludge.
Jon
> > As for myself I would be very nervous using any altitude control system
> > that didn't return elevator trim to 'neutral'(1) on disengagment because
> > as you say it is a potential killer
Tony wrote:
> Whose to say that neutral trim is better? And aside from that, there
> really is no such
> Somehow, using combinations of the above methods, I've managed to get
> airplanes running with a fuel load that is randomly empty. And a couple
> times I've managed to get a fuel load approaching infinity. Users
normally
> only notice when the FGSimTurbine reacts badly to a zero-fuel condition
> As an interim solution, here is a turbine module that no longer checks if
> there is any fuel in the tanks. This turbine is always on, regardless of
> fuel state. The module goes in FlightGear-0.9.2/src/FDM/JSBSim/
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~davidculp2/FGSimTurbine.cpp
>
> I'll see if the JSBSi
> The way I see it, the aircraft configuration files should define the
> possibilities of the aircraft and not the current state. I was under the
> impression the current state was defined in the reset00 and
> reset001 files?
>
> Erik
The reset file sets the current *dynamic* state. I suppose we
> These are the values from the c172p "-set.xml" configuration:
>
>
>
>
> 20
>
>
> 20
>
>
>
I believe the problem is not that it works sporadically, but that JSBSim
allows setting fuel load as well as FlightGear. It could be that we are
inconsistent in defining
> Has anyone else been having a problem with trying to set the fuel load at
> startup using property /consumables/fuel/tank[n]/level-gal_us ?
> I find that sometimes I get the fuel load I want, and sometimes I get
empty
> tanks. Is it just me? This might be specific to JSBSim.
>
> Dave Culp
Da
http://www.aeronautica3d.com/
Aeronautica 3D.url
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I don't have a problem with it. But I think the changes need to go in en
masse, so before committing the JSBSim.?xx changes to JSBSim CVS, we need
to make sure the rest of the changes are approved to go into FlightGear
CVS.
Jon
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EM
The Wilson P-51D "Gunfighter" model has the following named parts:
name "RightInnerGearCover"
name "LeftInnerGearCover"
name "CanopyRail"
name "ConsolePanel"
name "RightFrontCorner"
name "LeftFrontCorner"
name "RightGun3"
name "RightGun2"
name "RightGun1"
name "LeftGun3"
name "LeftGun2"
name "Left
> I guess I should introduce myself; My name is Adam Renner. I
> have just recently recieved my Bachelors and Masters Degrees in
> Biomedical Engineering from Wright State University in Ohio. As
> an engineer, I have had some programming experience, and since my
> graduation I have really become
> Note that JSBSim would get all of this for free simply by allowing
> coefficients to be (optionally) specified for individual surfaces,
> each with its own orientation. All JSBSim would have to do is sum up
> the moments and forces (mostly forces) for the collection of surfaces.
I think we all
> Yeah, but the windtunnel or flight-test data woudl include the
> individual coefficients in one single value. This means that if there is
> data for -180 ... +180 degree AOA and Yaw JSBSim (and UIUC) woudl be
> more accurate compared to YASim.
>
> That said, YASim is realy a good alternative for
> > Jon is busily
> > forming aero data from DATCOM runs ... DANG! all out of
> Foster's in the
> > fridge - need to run to the store.>
>
> Fosters? Guess I should have used an Aussie scheme:
> http://www.kitparade.com/features00/images/images_6/p51dbg_2.jpg
>
> Jon? ... Jon? Is that you unde
> I'd like to nominate Jim for Employee Of The Month. :-) That's looks
> awesome, Jim. Can't wait to see this and Jon's FDM model in action.
Jon
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Has anyone ever considered implementing aircraft shadows projected on the
ground?
Jon
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what command line are you using to fly to it?
Jon
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Curtis L.
> Olson
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:29 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] Shuttle
&g
The X68 runway may be messed up. There are criss-crossing runways. The
real shuttle landing facility has only one runway.
Jon
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> How about this one: http://www.airnav.com/airport/X68
> It's in FG's airport database.
That's it, I think. I found out that I didn't have that scenery, yet.
... downloading ...
Jon
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I have much improved the JSBSim shuttle flight model. In a few minutes I
will commit the modified shuttle.xml file to the JSBSim repository. This
can be moved to the BASE PACKAGE immediately, or sooner. ;-)
Use this command line:
fgfs --aircraft=shuttle --offset-distance=8.0 --altitude=15000 --pi
I have fixed the landing gear on the shuttle model (thanks Phillip).
Here's a nice thing to try:
fgfs --aircraft=shuttle --offset-distance=8.0 --altitude=1 --pitch=-20
.0 --vc=300
The drag is way too low on this beast, now. I hope to fix this weekend.
Jon
JON S. BERNDT
Coordinator, JSBSim Pr
> I did start the conversion (the easy part of it) and on closer
> examination it
> the model really isn't as great as I thought it was. So I've
> started building
> one of my own:
>
> http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/p51d-01.png
Is this a mesh, or what? I'm trying out AC3D, now.
Jon
smime.p7
> Full tanks way out on the wingtips of a 310 must create a significant
> roll moment. JSBSim will generate that moment for us, based on the
> amount of fuel in the tanks; however, if the published moment
> *already* assumes full wingtip tanks, then we'll get far too much
rolling.
I am 90% sure t
> Cmalpha for pitch and Cnbeta for yaw are good candidates for tweaking
> too.
Tony:
Did any pages from that tech report I lent you survive the dog mauling?
That report should have some good data on an analogous twin.
Jon
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> I'm not sure I changed the right coefficients, though -- I'm going to
> look into it more when I get the chance. The real problem might be in
> the moments of inertia.
Hmm. I'm not so sure. The moments of inertia are cut and pasted from a
technical document. That's just what they are. You can't
> Not yet. It's possible that I don't have a current email address, but
in
> this case, not likely. He might just be on vacation.
>
> I did start the conversion (the easy part of it) and on closer
> examination it
> the model really isn't as great as I thought it was. So I've
> started building
> > If it's not too much trouble, you might ask about "Mustang
> > Half & Half" that he also did. It's got the exact markings
> > of the P-51D I photogrpahed and incorporated into a lot of
> > our FlightGear and JSBSim artwork. See my airshow pictures
> > here:
> >
> > http://www.hal-pc.org/~j
Is there a recent updated options list for FlightGear, or is
fgfs --help
going to give me all the options available?
Also, how do I get 3D clouds to work?
Jon
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> Did you try the proposed fix, and did it work?
Yes, I did, and it worked great.
Here's what I am using:
$ g++ --version
2.95.3-5
Jon
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> [Resent now I'm subscribed!!!]
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> You could try replacing
>
> bcopy(pos, &tag, 3);
>
> with
>
> bcopy(pos, &tag[0], 3);
>
> and let us know how that goes. What compiler and OS are you on -
> I don't see this with gcc-3.2 on either Cygwin or Linux.
Is this your code?
How abo
I'm getting a build error for FlightGear with the newest stuff from CVS.
Any clues?
Jon
g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src -c
-o transmissionlist.o `test -fcho './'`transmissionlist.cxx
transmissionlist.cxx: In method `class string
FGTransmissionList::gen_te
There
is one old program called Digital DATCOM, but it is hard to come by, and it is
not easy to define an aircraft for this software. However, you can find
equations to estimate the aero coefficients in many aero books. Also, if you go
to the NASA Langley and NASA Dryden Flight Research Cen
> Jon Berndt wrote:
>
> > - Open Source versions of LaSRS++ frameworks include
> > JSBSim which is the flight model for 'FlightGear'
> >
> >
> >
> > JSBSim included with LaSRS++ ??
> >
> &g
> A story[1] on Slashdot today, linked to this presentation titled
> "Open Source Software in Simulation and Training":
>
> http://linuxworld.idealcorp.com/presentation/
> http://linuxworld.idealcorp.com/ossist.pdf
Interesting:
Object- oriented simulation models exist
---
> One thing you could try is running JSBSim on the same machine in stand
> alone mode and connect it to FlightGear using the network interface (is
> this already possible)?
There is an experiment that is sort of in-work, but not fully "staffed".
Jon
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> David Megginson writes:
> > To simulate windshear properly (i.e. in the right place at the right
> > time and magnitude), we would need to do a lot of meteorological work
> > that we're not doing right now. However, you can get the effect of
> > windshear by specifying a large gust factor
> >
>
If you are interested in space, you might check out www.naswatch.com
today. There's a name there today that might be familiar to some of us.
;-)
Jon
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> Can you seriously land a plane like this? Also, doesn't turbulence get
> less when you get closer to the ground?
It can get less near the ground -- particularly in the Z direction
(up/down) -- when you get close to the ground it has nowhere to go but
out.
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> I have the latest and greatest from CVS. I ran ./autogen.sh and
> ./configure, without any change. Is there something that I can do to
> force a rebuild (aside from deleting the Makefiles by hand, that is).
Delete all the .o files, and the libJSBSim.a, and libfiltersjb.a files.
This will cause
> When building on MacOS X, I got the following warnings. Since I don't
> use JSBSim too much, I wasn't too worried.
>
> Jonathan Polley
>
> ranlib: same symbol defined in more than one member in: libJSBSim.a
> (table of contents will not be sorted)
> ranlib: file: libJSBSim.a(FGTurbine.o) def
> 1. Require every module that ties a property to fire an update event
>whenever the value changes; or
>
> 2. Poll tied properties with change listeners attached inside the
>property system and fire the events when appropriate.
>
> I'd be include towards #2, since it would centralize the po
> > Dunno, prpbably their energy wasn't enough, but couldn't they try to
> > make it to the IIS and use a Progress (IIRC) to make it back, if they
> > figured out that this shuttle wasn't save enough to return?
>
> ..assuming the orbits were close enough, would it work for 10 people?
They were in
> No doubt now that the focus will be on the left wing. But I'm
wondering, is
> there anything that could have been done had the assessment gone the
other way?
>
> ..heavy sigh...
I do not believe so. Perhaps there ought to be, though. The focus probably
will be more on preventing insulation shed
> Remember these two rules:
>
> 1. If you upgrade FlightGear and SimGear, then you have to upgrade the
>base package at the same time.
>
> 2. If you upgrade the base package, you have to upgrade FlightGear and
>SimGear at the same time.
Oh, yeah.
> That's deliberate -- Curt designed the
> > For those of you who may not have heard, the Space Shuttle Columbia
> > appears to have broken up on entry as it passed south of Dallas
> > while at a speed of mach 10+.
>
> Any thoughts on what may have happened?
>
> Matt
During ascent there was some ice that broke loose and impacted the left
For those of you who may not have heard, the Space Shuttle Columbia
appears to have broken up on entry as it passed south of Dallas while at a
speed of mach 10+.
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I didn't know Scott Crossfield is a member of the Wright Flyer group:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/Wright_bros030131.html
Jon
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/866608.asp?0cv=CB20
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> If anyone wants to take a look at the progress of the hi-res cessna
> 172s instrument gauges, (after a cvs update of the base package) you
> can startup with:
>
> src/Main/fgfs --aircraft=c172-610x-jsbsim
It's gorgeous, really.
Some comments:
1) The escape key used to kill flightgear. It d
> Scrounging on the web, Raymer, Anderson, McCormick, Etkin, Roskam from
the
> Lewis University library, and some cut-n-paste from Tony Peden's
configs.
I call this "data mining". :-)
> I then tweaked some things to make it more flyable. The yaw values have
been
> tweaked because I don't know ye
> Here's a Northrop T-38A flight model for the JSBSim FDM. It
> flies nicely.
> Takeoff with flaps at first detent.
> Rotate to 10 degrees pitch at about 140 knots.
> Raise gear when airborne.
> Raise flaps at 200 knots.
> Trim stab down to maintain 10 degree climb and accelerate to 300 knots.
>
> [1] I have a 2 year old daughter ... :-)
> http://www.nickjr.com/grownups/home/shows/dora/index.jhtml
Is she into Teletubbies, yet? :-)
Jon
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> There is still the FGSwitch patch needed. Here again.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Fred
> - map mComparison;
Actually, the change to FGSwitch can remove the whole line.
Fixed and committed.
Jon
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Could be the files were not added. Here they are. Take a look at the
Makefile.am in both the JSBSim directory and the filtersjb/ subdirectory.
Those files should reflect changes.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Turner
> Sent: Fr
> I think we're talking cheese. I guess no American would ever eat
anything
> with 'light' in it's name!
That's because here anything with "light" in the name tastes like crap. If
it's different in the U.K., I'm moving! ;-)
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> From: Norman Vine
>
> FWIW - for comparison purposes here is a non-overzoomed
> 10m pixel image of an area I am quite familiar with :-)
Very nice. I zoomed way in.
BTW, you have a thread hanging off your collar in the back. Nice shirt.
;-)
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> Wouldn't something like this work?
>
> Either:
>
> using namespace jsbsim
>
> or
>
> using jsbsim::FGFDMExec
> etc...
>
> at the top of the files
>
> or
>
> fdmex = new jsbsim::FGFDMExec
> etc...
>
> everytime its needed.
>
> Cheers - Dave
You would expect it to, wouldn't you. I added "using na
I copied over Bernie's changes for namespaces, but have not been able to
get the code to compile with FlightGear. The files JSBSim.cxx|hxx need to
be aware of the new namespace scoping of JSBSim, and I can't seem to get
it to work. Suggestions?
Jon
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> That sounds like a very good idea, especially since JSBSim tends to
> use the FG* prefix in its classes, just like FlightGear does. Why
> don't we update JSBSim in FlightGear as soon as the whole thing is
> moved into the jsbsim Namespace and tested.
I got Bernie's code (Thanks Bernie). What is
> Just added "namespace jsbsim { ... }" to latest CVS JSBSim and got a
clean
> compile and link. I'm not in a position to test at the moment. BTW
> FGConditon was missing from filtersjb/Makefile.am.
Ah, yes. I need to go in and change that. Thanks. I'll probably recommend
that this current versi
I recently added a new class to JSBSim (in the filters subdirectory)
called FGCondition. I checked the flightgear names beforehand and found an
FGConditional, but I missed the FGCondition name. Now I am getting a link
error when building FlightGear with the new JSBSim stuff. I think I may
need to s
> Gene Buckle writes:
> > > >
> > > > So, that don't impresses her much?
> > > >
> > > > Erik
> > >
> > > No. But Shania helped me discover a better approach...
> > >
> > You wear leopard print dresses? *gd&r*
>
> Jon was up here in MN one time so we got together for breakfast.
> Imagine our horr
> I always heard that rocket scientists say, "It's not exactly brain
> surgery." But then what to neurosurgens say? Probably something like
> "It's only brain surgery..."
Maybe neurosurgeons say: "It's not exactly female psychology".
;-)
[with apologies to the women who might be reading this!]
>
> So, that don't impresses her much?
>
> Erik
No. But Shania helped me discover a better approach...
;-)
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> My favorite is the "I'm with stupid" tee shirt, but with the arrow
> pointing up (or is it down?)
> By the way, Jon, what do guys at
> Nasa say when something is relatively easy?
We say: "OK, what did we miss?" [BTW, I am not employed by NASA, but by a
major aerospace corporation who supports
> David Luff writes:
> > Can someone who lives in Texas actually call someone else a redneck?
>
> Yeah, and Houston no less ...
>
> Curt.
Dang! I set myself up again!
Well, I don't think *I* qualify as a redneck. I'm an engineer. I don't drive
a pickup. I don't own a shotgun.
[now let's see ...
> I'm not aware of the internals of the autopilot, but it might be usefull
> to wait a bit until the script manager is working properly, and then
> make the autopilot script driven.
What is the script manager?
Jon
JON S. BERNDT
Coordinator, JSBSim Project
www.JSBSim.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
smi
> Also, consider that for the default autopilot, we have modeled gyros
> and other systems that are actually used as input to the autopilot (at
> least on smaller planes.) This makes our current autopilots behave
> less ideally, and more like real life. Half the fun of learning how
> to use these
As some of you may know, I have been interested in an autopilot capability
for JSBSim in the standalone version. Also, providing a configurable
autopilot for JSBSim airplanes flying in FlightGear (via a config file) is
also something I'd like to be able to do. Recently, I have completed the
basic f
Of general aviation interest:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=691
Note photo credit at bottom! :-)
Jon
smime.p7s
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> I found it very helpful to capture a compile date and cvs tag into a
> chip design that verification people could use to direct me to a
> particular verilog code base to reproduce and debug problems.
Good idea. We sort of do this for JSBSim. Isn't there a command that you
can type to get informa
> > There might be a yaw rate effect too. When the aircraft is yawing,
> > the wingtip going "back" also sees a higher AoA and will drop if it
is
> > past the stall. Same deal. The snap roll needs a stalled "down"
> > wingtip to get the divergence, in any case.
>
> That makes sense -- thanks
Curt wrote:
> Right, I don't want to be too critical ... they are certainly entitled
> to form an opinion based on their experiences. They also may be
> giving us poor marks in the area of cross-platform portability for not
> doing everything natively on every platform ... there again, that may
>
> I think we should look closely on their conclusion in their reflection:
>
>
> In conclusion, the FlightGear flight simulator is a very nice flight sim
> package that offers great features (for free), but very poor
> extensibility with very few user-friendly tools and source code that is
> ge
> And that's not even counting the ones for your kids.
>
> All the best,
>
> David
note to self: make sure webcam is disconnected. someone knows more than
they should.
:-P
smime.p7s
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FYI,
Have a look at this pic:
http://tinyurl.com/412x
This site is great. Go here:
http://www.airliners.net/
Then click on one of the links under "Most Popular".
Good way to waste a little time ...
Jon
smime.p7s
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