Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-10 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 22:55, John Denker wrote: If you really want to rip out the old outputs, in the name of internal cleanliness or whatever, that can wait With apologies to Dave Perry, I think upon reflection (and converting some aircraft over myself), that waiting a bit longer here does

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread Tim Moore
On 09/09/2009 01:37 AM, John Denker wrote: 4) Back in January I wrote the code to implement correct ICAO localizer behavior. This includes the important service volume issues that Atadjanov Daniyar reminded us about recently, i.e. 09/08/09 09:30. This also includes false localizer

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 03:01, dave perry wrote: Sorry, I misunderstood you concerning the animation edits. I will be glad to help with the xml edits and testing. Getting rid of the spurious 5x for the glide scope and adding the clamps is a good idea and adding the normalized CDI and GS could

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread John Denker
On 09/08/09 23:10, Tim Moore wrote: Is this different from this commit in sportmodel?: commit 77a6f88082a74e3187268c9fde4cee49539cae43 Author: John Denker j...@av8n.com Date: Sun Jun 24 19:11:34 2007 -0400 Fix the azimuthal dependence of localizer service volume ... false

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread Tim Moore
On 09/09/2009 02:57 PM, John Denker wrote: On 09/08/09 23:10, Tim Moore wrote: Is this different from this commit in sportmodel?: commit 77a6f88082a74e3187268c9fde4cee49539cae43 Author: John Denker j...@av8n.com Date: Sun Jun 24 19:11:34 2007 -0400 Fix the azimuthal dependence of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 14:16, Tim Moore wrote: Yes, the 2009 code is different from the 2007 code. The 2009 features and bugfixes are a superset of the 2007 features and bugfixes. Also the 2009 commits were rebased so that they applied cleanly to the FGFS release that was current at the time.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread dave perry
James Turner wrote: On 9 Sep 2009, at 03:01, dave perry wrote: Sorry, I misunderstood you concerning the animation edits. I will be glad to help with the xml edits and testing. Getting rid of the spurious 5x for the glide scope and adding the clamps is a good idea and adding the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread dave perry
James Turner wrote: - secondly, I'm changing (or will) the glideslope deviation to be 'correct' degrees: [-0.7 .. 0.7], i.e removing the spurious 5x scalar that has somehow crept in, and fixing many clients which assumed the range was [-10 .. 10], or something else again. This is in

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 17:22, dave perry wrote: - secondly, I'm changing (or will) the glideslope deviation to be 'correct' degrees: [-0.7 .. 0.7], i.e removing the spurious 5x scalar that has somehow crept in, and fixing many clients which assumed the range was [-10 .. 10], or something else

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 17:04, dave perry wrote: I have updated and tested the vor.xml, vor2.xml in Instruments-3D/vor as well as the century3.nas in Aircraft/Generic and the corresponding PID controllers. I will do the same for the AltimaticIIIC used in the SenecaII as I wrote the CenturyIII

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread John Denker
On 09/09/09 06:16, Tim Moore wrote: Yes, the 2009 code is different from the 2007 code. The 2009 features and bugfixes are a superset of the 2007 features and bugfixes. Also the 2009 commits were rebased so that they applied cleanly to the FGFS release that was current at the time. That's

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread Torsten Dreyer
Here is what I'm going to do: - change gs-needle-deflection to report the GS deviation *in degrees* - add a gs-needle-deflection-norm property, reporting the deflection as the range +/- 1.0 (I'll probably do that for the CDI as well). 1.0 will be on the peg, 0.0 will be centred

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread James Turner
On 9 Sep 2009, at 21:47, Torsten Dreyer wrote: I don't think clamping the deviation to +/-0.7 degrees and the normalized value to +/- 1.0 is a good idea. Instruments like the KI525 HSI move the glide slope needle out of sight when the glideslope signal is not valid or you are way

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread John Denker
On 09/09/09 14:31, James Turner wrote: In practice, all the instruments I've seen so far handle 'parking' the GS needle in two ways: either masking layer above the needle, at the extremities of the range, or an interpolation table where the extreme values map to a particular hidden

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-09 Thread Tim Moore
On 09/09/2009 07:06 PM, John Denker wrote: On 09/09/09 06:16, Tim Moore wrote: Yes, the 2009 code is different from the 2007 code. The 2009 features and bugfixes are a superset of the 2007 features and bugfixes. Also the 2009 commits were rebased so that they applied cleanly to the FGFS

[Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread James Turner
As part of cleaning-up the nav-radio code, I need to make a painful change: fixing the confusion over GS maximum needle deflection. I'm aware that there's problems with the radio reception model, but I'm not going to attempt to address that at all - what I need to fix in the short term is a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread Atadjanov Daniyar
Hi! Just want to ask developers: is it possible to make ILS/LOC establishing radius more realistic? What we have now in FG? You can establish ILS/LOC anywere you are if you are in n-kilometers over airport. In real life ATC asks pilots: Report localizer established because in real life you

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread James Turner
On 8 Sep 2009, at 23:18, dave perry wrote: I don't think it is a good idea to go to a normalized value in a blanket edit of other's instruments as the needle deflection in the animation SHOULD be scaled to achieve the 2 deg per dot for VOR and the 1/2 degree per dot for the LOC. If

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread dave perry
Hi James, Your note below caused me to ask if the LOC needle deflection is scaled differently than the VOR needle deflection in navradio.cxx. It is and the comment that it is 4x more sensitive is correct according to notes from Instrument Ground School. From a pilot point of view, what we

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread John Denker
On 09/08/09 15:18, dave perry wrote: [The] note below caused me to ask if the LOC needle deflection is scaled differently than the VOR needle deflection in navradio.cxx. It is and the comment that it is 4x more sensitive is correct according to notes from Instrument Ground School. 1)

Re: [Flightgear-devel] GS sensitivity - especially for aircraft / panel developers

2009-09-08 Thread dave perry
James Turner wrote: - fourthly, and most importantly, I'm not doing a blanket edit - I wish I could! I'm going to have to go through each aircraft, make the changes, and then test that aircraft. I'm sure I'l miss some things, but I still believe it's worth it to kill off the dreaded 5x