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PO Box 160
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http
Anyone working on an airspeed dial? If not I'll make one, probably tomorrow.
Also have made a tiny bit of progress on a 3D panel model...but it's at the
point where it could be either a c310 or c172 with a little stretching here
and there (given my 'experience' with AC3D there's a good chance
Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
We probably do need some sane defaults, but it looks to me like more of
a viewpoint calc error to me. Start off on the ground with the external
view. It works perfectly until you get airborne, and then the model
disappears.
--
I'm not seeing this,
Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The new c310/asi.xml file tries to load Textures/{airsp260,bezel1}.rgb.
These, however, have been forgotten to upload from
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/c310asi.tar.gz, no?
m. :-)
They are in that tarball (path ./Instruments/Textures). Also now
That was easy. I finally put the property bindings in the correct place
and it works fine.
You can now set a default for pilot view offset aka chase view offset. The
fix is here:
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/chaseviewoffset.tar.gz
Contains: sgVec3Slider.cxx and sgVec3Slider.hxx
Extract
Ross Golder [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Also, if you got into a plane and the first thing you saw was the
following, what would you do?
http://www.golder.org/~rossg/tmp/2001_12_09_170213_shot.png
a) Request clearance to takeoff.
b) Go over the pre-flight checks again.
c) Call ahead to say
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
John Check writes:
Can somebody clue me on the order in which the config files are
parsed?
First preferences.xml, which picks up joystick.xml and keyboard.xml by
inclusion, then whatever is specified on the command-line in the order
it's
Martin Olveyra [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
How can be adjusted the camera offset? I can only adjust the FOV and the
camera direction.
Look at the menu for pilot offset...it'll let you adjust the position from
any angle and the radius from the plane. Also if you look at an earlier
message
PROTECTED] said:
Jim Wilson wrote:
Is there any support for rudder trim...partially done or otherwise?
The property is there, but it's not mapped to any input keystrokes or
buttons in the default configuration. Add something like this to the
keyboard.xml file to map rudder trim
just have to
take pics off the monitor with my digital.
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Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
3) How should I determine the size to make the cockpit? Is there
any rule of thumb for scaling? I've just redone the model (for the
third or forth time :-)) and right now is a good point to settle on
size/scaling.
So long as the proportions
Wolfram Kuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Starting small, but being extensible is a good idea.
Often, the 3D cockpit model is much more complex than the exteriour
model.
For example, for BoBs Spitfire:
- Cockpit as 3D Studio ascii file: 324 k without the instruments.
This melts down to a 45 k
These are the reference pictures I'm using right now (for the panel):
http://www.vickivt.com/vicki/planes/cessna%20t310q%201974_3.jpg
http://www.vickivt.com/vicki/planes/cessna%20t310r%201980_3.jpg
The 1980 model looks better IMHO.
Yeah I agree. Besides it doesn't have an empty
From what I understand the c310r is 48.5 door to door width. So I'd guess
the panel itself is about 47.5 to 48 wide at its widest dimension. From
what I understand radios are 6.25 wide...so while the panel in the picture
below looks like its 3 equal sections, the comm panel in the center would
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If anyone is interested, here is the work on the c310 3d panel so far. Sorry,
I couldn't get xwd to take a pic of it. Might be something with my X
setup...not sure. It can be viewed in ppe and of course ac3d.
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/3dpanelpreview1.ac
It's pretty basic right now, just
Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Speaking of which, when I hit 's' to switch panel, it looks like we're
reading the XML file each time. It funny that loading scenery doesn't
cause any hiccups in performance but switching panels does.
Yep, I just used the panel-load that was/is bound to
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Famous artists ...
(but maybe Elvis isn't the best name to chose)
... like Jake and Elwood ...
Man, I love that movie.
:-)
Erik
We got our son's name from David Bowie's guitarist, not that he's a
famous or an incredibly talented guitarist, we
Norman,
The current panel is at /sim/panel/path. You can change it by modifying that
path and reloading (panel-load command).
Jim
Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Norman Vine wrote:
Can someone please tell me how I can determine
which panel is the active panel
I think by
I've got some values that seem to work in the current autopilot code with the
c310. They are:
min_climb = 85.0 kts
best_climb = 107.0 kts
TargetClimbRate = 1500 fpm
Also there is this adjustment factor (code snippet from newauto.cxx aprox line
697):
// calculate proportional error
prop_error
,
Jim
Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I've got some values that seem to work in the current autopilot code with the
c310. They are:
min_climb = 85.0 kts
best_climb = 107.0 kts
TargetClimbRate = 1500 fpm
Also there is this adjustment factor (code snippet from newauto.cxx aprox line
697
What I was looking for right now was the simple autopilot that is already in
FG...ie something to keep the plane in the air when I let go of the yoke
(besides pause :)). I agree it should be done right, but I can get the
existing one (which is very basic) working for both c172 and c310 with
Try telneting in to manipulate properties. That'll do what you are talking
about. I think you can shut off the engine by setting the RPM to 0.
Of course changes can be made using scripts and/or a simple gui program that
sends strings out to that same port.
Best,
Jim
Sergio [EMAIL PROTECTED]
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Norman Vine writes:
Again I don't see any compelling reason to move to SDL
As an outsider, I'll mention that one advantage is the fact that so
many other high-end games seem to be using SDL now. I like PLib, but
it hasn't seemed to catch on in
oops. fixed!
John Check [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
it's 404
On Saturday 19 January 2002 05:09 pm, you wrote:
This makes the current autopilot at least configurable on the verticle
for different aircraft. There are two configs included, one for c172 and
the other for the c310:
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Hmm -- maybe you could set up a Python script to refill the tanks
every few hours. Note that the FGRocket engine model used by the X-15
was already consuming fuel -- proper fuel consumption just hadn't been
implemented for FGPiston yet.
In flight
Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If I could find some outline drawings of the 172 310 I could plug away at
that also.
Jeff,
Check this out: http://aviation.sosu.edu/aircraft/c310.html
and these
http://aviation.sosu.edu/aircraft/aircraft.html
Best,
Jim
James,
I rebuilt again from CVS tonight (2nd time this week) and no problems. When I
do it I do a full rebuild including all the config and makefiles (even if I
think it might not be necessary).
This is a gcc2.95.2/glibc2.1 system for what thats worth. Ran default just as
you did and it loads
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Geoff McLane wrote:
JSBSim stops after the QNAN's,
and now YASim c172 seems unable to get speed to lift off ...
Just one of those days ...
Odd. Jim Wilson also reported a not enough power situation (with
the YASim 747) that I couldn't reproduce
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
My previous card was a Voodoo-3 ... this was a 16 bit card, 16 bit
textures, 16 bit depth buffer, etc. At the time the mesa based linux
drivers had some bugs which led to annoying visual artifacts, and
jumpy/jerky motion.
Well in defense of a great
Hi John,
This file contains the xml and updated rgb for an APR button on the
autopilot. It can be used to lock on to the glide slope on an
ILS aproach:
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/autopilot_with_apr.tar.gz
As it stands now the NAV locks onto the NAV1 localizer and the APR locks
on to the
I noticed on mine that the runways come up textured and then turn white. This
happens very quickly but you can definately see it, lines and all. Why would
that happen?
Jim
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Jon S. Berndt writes:
I'm confused. Then why did Melchior say he had no
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I'd really like to have a good XLR-99 rumble sound. Right now I don't recall
there being any audio indication that the engine is burning. Is there? What is
Seems like the wheel rumble could be modified (amplified?) to sound kind of
like a rocket rumble.
Best,
Jim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I believe that these are lingering problems with the propeller models.
Is this still present with the newer JSBSim code/files? Strange. It's hard to
picture why, when everything has been at equilibrium for a while, why the
propeller should suddenly spin out of
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Jim Wilson wrote:
Are you talking about the newer 3D model or newer xml? I'm not sure
exactly what affects the position of the model, but using Yasim-DC3
any model including the glider is sideways.
Now, that's interesting. I'd just assumed
It turned out to be quite easy to add multiple tiles for a panel background.
This simple one could be enhanced to have more detail but it does look quite a
bit better than a single 256x256 stretched accross the window.
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/c310-tiled-panel.png
The code for this
David Findlay [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:02, you wrote:
Definately. I hope this will go into 0.7.9 so it can be thoroughly tested for
the 0.8 stable release.
It's probably too late for that. In any case I'd like to revisit the syntax of
the xml (take a look at it)
Hi Curt,
This is a three line fix for some inconsistancies between the gui dialogs and
the panel controls for the autopilot. The heading dialog would only show the
last setting you did through it, even if it was later tweaked with the bug on
the hsi. The altitude dialog did a similar thing.
Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
* David Megginson -- Wednesday 13 February 2002 21:15:
It's OK, but I haven't tried a lot of long cross-countries. I haven't
put much work into the prop model for the C310 compared to the C172 or
C182, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's spinning out
Just wondering if we should comment out the binding for this since it still
doesn't work with the default FDM.
Best,
JIm
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David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I am convinced that we're best off starting with the engines idling
rather than off, since our default start is always on a runway (even
Is there a way to set the parking brake at startup so that the plane doesn't
roll down (or off) the runway as soon
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 14:59, David Megginson wrote:
Interesting. I have no objection to removing the binding completely,
but it is showing up a more serious problem with JSBSim's ground
trimming (it tries to trim to the ground on reset even when the
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The way its set up right now, it should trim in-air if the speed is
above 10 knots.
From FGJSBSim::do_trim():
if(fgic-GetVcalibratedKtsIC() 10 ) {
fgic-SetVcalibratedKtsIC(0.0);
fgtrim=new FGTrim(fdmex,fgic,tGround);
}
John Check [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I could bind a toggle for the brakes to the indicator.
I think it's fairly likely somebody might click on it
Yep great idea. Is the at-startup-parking-brake working? I couldn't seem
to make it work last night.
Best,
Jim
Just wondering if this is a necessary JSBsim feature.
Best,
Jim
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Martin van Beilen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I have been playing around with the wind some more, and it seems
that JSBSim doesn't only have the up/down winds inverted, but the
north and east winds as well.
Hmmm...doesn't look like it to me. Just rolling down the runway I applied a
200knot
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I'd be happier if we kept it as is. Wouldn't be the first time
engineers have traded correctness for pragmatism.
Ah pragmatism! Is that the excuse engineers use when they get their vectors
math bass-ackwards? ;-)
Best,
Jim
Jon S. Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Was there a properties way to do it that is opposite to the above? Perhaps
we are given too much power! ;-)
In the /environment path there are variables for wind direction that specify a
force value as fps from east and/or north, the sum of which
Alex Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/c172r-tiled-panel.png
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/c310-tiled-panel.png
Very nice. Do you do enough texture re-use that it'll run well on
low-texture-memory machines ? I'm doing a demo on Wednesday 8-)
Other than
There's an issue that needs group input. Currently there's a property value
called y-offset (there's also an x-offset that isn't used much) and this
parameter is used to initialize the panel position adjustment (shift F5 or
shift F6). The default is 0.
Some of the panel xmls define initial
Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
From: Alex Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8MB + AGP in a RagePro chipset
UTAH-Glx ? I wonder how you would get RagePro running with plain
XFree86/DRI ?
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends ar
This could be
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
John Check writes:
As for me I'd like to see
1)ground explosion when plane crash the ground (I have a lot
explosion
textures)
Hmm, I'm not sure I see a reason for this one.
I'd move it down the list, but it would be a crowd
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
No, that's not right after all. Following a message from Jon Berndt,
I took a peek at the property browser, and the wind-{north|east}-fps
is the to- direction, not the from- direction. JSBSim was using the
from- direction already, while the other
Here's the code and textures. The code (panel*.?xx) goes into the src/Cockpit
directory. The rest (c172 and c310 directories) go into their respective
corresponding directories under $FGFSBase/Aircraft.
Let me know how it works, especially with the lower video memory cards:
Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
No wonder, the patch was not against the latest CVS, so it removed
everything that was added later! Very nasty ... :-(
m.
Sorry about that...actually I was quite current, but usually I like to cvs
update one last time before posting.
Best,
Jim
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Andy Ross writes:
I have my own peeves about the panel coordinate conventions.
I wrote the code after about two hours puzzling through examples in an
OpenGL book, which was my first exposure to 3D programming. It works,
but I agree that it's
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
This would work best if we put the panel into a different scene graph
from everything else:
setclipplanesforworld();
ssgCullAndDraw(world);
setclipplanesforpanel();
ssgCullAndDraw(panel);
Does this make sense? Setting up a seperate
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
David Megginson writes:
My proposed solution is to add a layer of abstraction to every
*-set.xml file. It will be annoying for John and me, but will make
things simpler for everyone else.
Hmm. On further reflection, this might cause
is outline where my thinking is going so
that I can get this fairly right the first time. Mostly I'm interested in
whether anyone else has ideas on organizing the scene graph tree.
Best,
Jim
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
David Megginson writes:
Jim Wilson writes:
And the question
BERNDT, JON S. (JON) (JSC-EX) (LM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
From: Michael Basler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Hi,
I just received a problem report from a German user on the
released version
0.7.9 which I - unfortunately - was able to confirm in part.
1. Start at CL77 Santa
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Did my 'fix' to fgFDMForceAltitude() get in to the
0.7.9 release?
Not sure but I think it did. I'm testing with cvs (as of yesterday or so).
Anything I can do to help?
Best,
Jim
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John Wojnaroski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Certainly not, when it's gross weight is 800k lbs. :)
The weight you quote is close to the zero-fuel weight, which is
typical for landing. By default, YASim will top your tanks off at
startup. The plane in this condition will indeed have a
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Andy Ross writes:
The effect is happening because the aircraft isn't consuming fuel. If
you take off at full tanks, you never get any lighter. A real
aircraft would have burned off a big chunk of its fuel store in the
climb, and would have
Sergio Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Hi,
I´ve found this panel and it seem to be very cool. What do you think ?
http://www.avsim.com/pages/1000/dreamfleet/dffull.jpg
Yes, I saw that one not too long ago. Very nice vinyl texture. And the metal
panel area itself is pretty darn near
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Instead, if the /sim/model/path property points to a file ending with
.xml, the FGAircraftModel class reads a property file at that
location to get information about the 3D model. Initially, the
following properties are recognized:
/path
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
David Megginson writes:
That said, it might be possible to animate the X-15 model that we
already have, assuming that the various objects in the model are
named.
I haven't looked at pretty-poly lately, but it might not be hard to
load up the
John Wojnaroski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Excuse me, but if you go back you will see that I allowed to the fact that I
was unclear on the idea
of the properties, but was willing to give it a go. If this is truely an
open source project then other
ideas and opinions need to be honored, not
The new model animation is very cool so far.
One thing I did notice is that there seems to be significantly greater CPU
overhead when running these models as opposed to some of the msfs models I've
tried. When taking off in chase view there's a great deal of interuption in
the sound. Also and
John Check [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I noticed that sometimes the dc3 will get into a rotation on the ground
sometimes, especially after a reset. Maybe this is what he is seeing.
TTYL
J
Yep. It does. Applying both brakes seems to stop it. The rudder to brakes
binding doesn't seem to work
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Martin Dressler writes:
There is a problem with propeller. With low frame rate I couldn't see
diferents between low and high RPMs.
Even with a fairly good framerate the prop doesn't look so good yet.
What we need to do is switch to a
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
at all. Definitely recommended. One one caveat: it's USB response is
slower than the spec allows, so the linux driver doesn't work out of
the box. You need to enable the slow USB devices option when you
compile your kernel. The default Red Hat kernels
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Jim Wilson wrote:
Andy Ross wrote:
at all. Definitely recommended. One one caveat: it's USB response
is slower than the spec allows, so the linux driver doesn't work out
of the box. You need to enable the slow USB devices option when
you
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The DC-3 3D model now has the following surfaces animated:
Looks really cool! I think right elevator and inner right flap might not be
working. Or maybe I banged them up during my sloppy take off :-)
Best,
Jim
Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Ah! That doesn't appear to be zapped by make clean
Nope but make clean-deps does. Maybe we should include that in the cvs
building instructions?
Best,
Jim
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David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Tony Peden writes:
I certainly like the idea of having some sort of units indicator
on every property name, though I agree risk of breakage is high
in this case.
I can change everything in FlightGear and the base package, but I'm
worried
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:25:36AM -0800, Andy Ross wrote:
Tony Peden wrote:
David Megginson wrote:
Tony Peden wrote:
I certainly like the idea of having some sort of units indicator
on every property name, though I agree risk of breakage is
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
To me, no units specified does not automatically imply non-dimensional.
It means I still have to ask what the units are.
I haven't had this problem in trying to understand these values, but maybe
I've just been programming too long. :-)
To me, items
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Andy Ross writes:
Heh, bingo! First google site I tried:
http://www.photovault.com/Link/Technology/Aviation_General/TAGVolume04/TAGV04P03_09.jpg
Perfect -- that's just what I needed. So the flap will not be visible
at all from the top of
Danie Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
forward to some nice developments. As a fan of anti-Microsoft bans, I can't
wait to screw Bill Gates and his company with this amazing piece of
software.
OT
We have a lot to thank Bill Gates for, including the way he (especially) and
others got under
Hi Curt,
Wanted to make sure I was familiar with all the functions in the autopilot
code before making a lot of changes. So to that end I did some work on the
gui interface to the waypoint stuff and checked out the waypoint following to
make sure it is still working.
Description of changes:
Alex Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
As far as I'm concerned, the outside view is purely for entertainment
since there is nothing realistic about hanging a couple dozen feet behind
the aircraft in the open air, operating the controls remotely.
Hmmm purely is one of those tricky words. There's
Alex Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
the instrument panel, dubious maneuvers apply a brown overlay to
the passenger seats ...
hehe...what's the property for that?
Best,
Jim
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David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I don't think this is an easy option, at least not with a true 3D
model wrapped around the viewer. We'll have to find a more robust
solution. To start, I can make the depth buffer 0.1 only when the
interior model view is enabled, so no one loses
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
David,
Assuming all of this is being drawn via plib/ssg then you could put
all the geometry in a separate ssgRoot node and call ssgCullandDraw()
on this root after everything else has been rendered. We have a
couple ssgRoot's already so we can
Tony Peden [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Well it turned out to be more of a piece on open source gaming in
general and they didn't do much more than show the website. They did,
however, have good things to say about FG and the exposure was really
cool.
Oh well. One of my websites appeared on
Hi Mark,
What I do is update occaisonally (once or twice a week sometimes more) and
keep an eye on the logs (the web based ViewCVS is handy too) in order to know
what others are working on. Before sending in code I'll update to current CVS
again and make sure things still work. It is much
Noticed that the c310 has its wheels below pavement. Is it ok to readjust the
models for a recent change or is this a temporary? Or am I the only one :-)?
Best,
Jim
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Oops forgot the screenshot:
http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/bluecanoe-takeoff.png
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Sounds like it'd be useful for debugging aircraft and autopilot configs too.
Best,
Jim
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Tony Peden writes:
In my day job, my own experience has been that
real-time plotting is useful when you know exactly
what you are looking for and you only need
FWIW thought I'd make a few comments on the new 3D view stuff, realizing that
it is still being worked on.
While the commercial sims give a 3D feel to the cockpit they aren't always
attempting to be true models.
In this screenshot from fs2k, note that while the perspective (eye to panel)
is ok,
Wolfram Kuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I agree, full 3D is the way new sims work and FGFS should have that as
well and not implement now a feature that was state of the art some
years ago.
Fly! is a 3D cockpit. I was talking about usability, and IMHO it is a more
usable panel because of its
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
As far as I can figure out, there are only three situations we need to
deal with in the viewer code:
1. Looking away from a known position.
2. Looking towards a known position from a known distance and
angle(s).
3. Looking from one known
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In every case, we want to be able to specify offsets for all six
degrees of freedom. I think that it makes sense to put all of this in
a single, configurable viewer class, rather than having separater
viewer_lookat, viewer_rph, and (eventually)
Jonathan Polley [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The preferences file is not FDM specific at all. The contents of
preferences.xml in the base package are for the most part self
explanatory,
I have to beg to differ on this one. For those few command line arguments
that I have used, I can
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
David Megginson writes:
3. The orientation is incorrect when the view is not straight forward
and the plane is not flying level (waiting for a fix from me, but I
don't understand matrix math well enough) -- that means that when you
look out
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
FlightGear now has the ability to produce multiple logs, each
recording the value of user-selected properties at a user-defined
interval. Details are available in docs-mini/README.logging; Here's
a simple example that logs the rudder and aileron
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Jim Wilson writes:
This seems to pretty much correct the problem. Part of the problem
is that rotations are occuring at the firewall (model origin) which
seems a little un-natural inside the cockpit. The rest of the
problem is I am just
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
functions, and object methods. I think that I'm the only one using
variable pointers (panel.cxx) static functions (fg_props.cxx), and no
If I'm reading this correctly...I am using them in the autopilot code and the
Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Jim Wilson writes:
Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
So I say lets take a little time and discuss or 'High Level'
conceptualization
and the possible ramifications of the possible way of doing
things before we just tear things apart just to fix
Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
It is not mutable by anything but the mouse code. I want a hat swtich
to change view direction. This is not even vaguely possible with the
current implementation (especially if you refuse to read properties
from the mouse code -- properties are all the
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