Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Loup Vaillant
Alan Kay wrote: Hi Loup Very good question -- and tell your Boss he should support you! Cool, thank you for your support. […] One general argument is that non-machine-code languages are POLs of a weak sort, but are more effective than writing machine code for most problems. (This was quite

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Loup Vaillant
Yes, I'm aware of that limitation. I have the feeling however that IDEs and debuggers are overrated. Sure, when dealing with a complex program in a complex language (say, tens of thousands of lines in C++), then sure, IDEs and debuggers are a must. But I'm not sure their absence outweigh the

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Alan Kay
I think it is domain dependent -- for example, it is very helpful to have a debugger of some kind for a parser, but less so for a projection language like Nile. On the other hand, debuggers for making both of these systems are very helpful. Etoys doesn't have a debugger because the important

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Duncan Mak
Hello Alan, On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: For example, one of the many current day standards that was dismissed immediately is the WWW (one could hardly imagine more of a mess). I was talking to a friend the other day about the conversations going on in

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread BGB
On 2/29/2012 5:34 AM, Alan Kay wrote: With regard to your last point -- making POLs -- I don't think we are there yet. It is most definitely a lot easier to make really powerful POLs fairly quickly than it used to be, but we still don't have a nice methodology and tools to automatically

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Duncan The short answers to these questions have already been given a few times on this list. But let me try another direction to approach this. The first thing to notice about the overlapping windows interface personal computer experience is that it is logically independent of the

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Max Orhai
It's entirely beside the point, but there is another workaround route to fast parallel code in the (Firefox) browser, called River Trail: https://github.com/RiverTrail/RiverTrail Quoting the project wiki: In a world where the web browser is the user’s window into computing, browser applications

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Reuben Thomas
On 29 February 2012 23:09, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: [Recapitulation snipped] So, this gradually turned into an awful mess. But Linus went back to square one Not really, it was just a reimplementation of the same thing on cheap modern hardware. But there is still the browser and

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
On 1 March 2012 02:46, Reuben Thomas r...@sc3d.org wrote: On 29 February 2012 23:09, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: [Recapitulation snipped] So, this gradually turned into an awful mess. But Linus went back to square one Not really, it was just a reimplementation of the same thing on

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Reuben Thomas
On 1 March 2012 01:40, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 March 2012 02:46, Reuben Thomas r...@sc3d.org wrote: On 29 February 2012 23:09, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: [Recapitulation snipped] So, this gradually turned into an awful mess. But Linus went back to square one

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
On 1 March 2012 03:59, Reuben Thomas r...@sc3d.org wrote: On 1 March 2012 01:40, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 March 2012 02:46, Reuben Thomas r...@sc3d.org wrote: On 29 February 2012 23:09, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: [Recapitulation snipped] So, this gradually

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread David Smith
Actually, we can do great particle systems with the shader language for WebGL. This is a kind of native client mode expressed as a kind of SIMD, with even better performance than star-squeak had. The reality is still that a great algorithm will still win, especially when coupled with strategically