Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that
predate electronic computers.
When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became
prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name
for a file. The layers and layers of slightly broken metaphors never
On 6/22/2011 5:08 PM, Steve Wart wrote:
Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that
predate electronic computers.
When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became
prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name
for a file. The layers and
On 23/06/2011, at 10:08 AM, Steve Wart wrote:
So how can you make simple languages simple to use? Developers have
been rejecting complex GUIs in favour of plain text. If Google and
Apple are right, every program component isn't a file on a disk, but
rather some network accessible resource.
The emergence of ubiquitous internet media and the distribution architecture
we've built around it has shifted attention to the communication needs of
people. Many are employed in the Web industry and others unemployed...
market forces come into play. It's all possible because of established (and
On 23/06/2011, at 12:35 PM, Max OrHai wrote:
People who want a small language should be prepared to be somewhat
idiosyncratic, if they want to express big or complex programs. I mean
'language' here not just in terms of a programming language definition but
rather to mean all constructs
I wish that emacs / vi, GBD, and the Unix shell had anything close to the
n00b mode provided by Squeak in terms of inline documentation, tool tips,
menus etc.. But, yeah, Squeak has serious problems, and you're absolutely
right that it's too hard to tinker with the core of it, just like every
On 6/20/2011 9:19 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
Hi... (see below)...
On 21/06/2011, at 3:42 AM, BGB wrote:
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or
There are certainly practical differences between conventional relational
databases and hierarchical filesystems, without having to get into
implementation details. I'm sure at least a few people on this list are
familiar with the BeOS filesystem, which acted much more like a relational
DBMS than
Also of interest might be GemStone/S, an ODBMS that is still heavily
used in at least two large Investment Banks (JP Morgan and UBS), as
well as several large shipping companies (OOCL, Coscon, and NYK).
Marketing blurb here
http://seaside.gemstone.com/docs/OOCL_SuccessStory.pdf
Basically it's an
On 6/19/2011 9:49 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 2:33 PM, BGB wrote:
in a sense, the metaphor no longer works, and should likely itself be left to
fall into the recycle-bin of history. worse yet is having to read stuff written
by people who actually take this metaphor
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
interestingly, I don't believe in getting rid of the file-system, per-se, as
technically it works fairly well and is a proven piece of technology.
Interestingly, I disagree entirely. Finding things is a pain for most people
(including myself).
Julian.
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
For example, when web programming on a specific web app, I use a web
browser, a text editor, a database management program, a command line, and a
couple other tools. It'd be nice to be able to fit these tools together
into a pseudo-app and then build
On 6/19/2011 11:54 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
interestingly, I don't believe in getting rid of the file-system, per-se, as
technically it works fairly well and is a proven piece of technology.
Interestingly, I disagree entirely. Finding things is a pain
On 2011-06-19 Sun, at 09:33 PM, BGB wrote:
.. which mappings are more natural and under which circumstances seems to be
the important question and one, AFAICS, that may not well answered by simply
replacing words with ideograms and expressions with boxes and arrows.
agreed... I really
On 6/19/2011 11:58 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
For example, when web programming on a specific web app, I use a web browser, a text editor, a database
management program, a command line, and a couple other tools. It'd be nice to be able to fit these
tools
On 6/20/2011 2:19 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 6:33 PM, BGB wrote:
I am not certain I follow how this would get rid of file-systems though...
I am not aware of any good alternative to the filesystem which is generally
better than the filesystem (can effectively manage huge
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think there's a difference between a filesystem and a
database... conceptually...
or such...
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think there's a difference between a filesystem and a
database...
Hi... (see below)...
On 21/06/2011, at 3:42 AM, BGB wrote:
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think
On 2011-06-14 Tue, at 09:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as
equal is that we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so
much of them in terms of linguistic and cognitive development... and actually
the
On 20/06/2011, at 12:20 PM, Steve Dekorte wrote:
From this perspective we could see the history of programming as one of
finding ever more natural mappings between how our minds work and how we can
get machines to do what we want - just as steering wheel and floor pedals map
between our
On 6/19/2011 7:20 PM, Steve Dekorte wrote:
On 2011-06-14 Tue, at 09:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as equal is that
we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so much of them in terms of linguistic
and
On 20/06/2011, at 2:33 PM, BGB wrote:
in a sense, the metaphor no longer works, and should likely itself be left to
fall into the recycle-bin of history. worse yet is having to read stuff
written by people who actually take this metaphor seriously.
Given the historical perspective, it was
On 6/14/2011 9:50 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:
On 2011-06-14, at 9:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as equal is that
we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so much of them in terms of linguistic
and cognitive
but, yeah... being young, time seems to go by very slowly, and just sitting
around fiddling with something, one accomplishes a lot of stuff in a
relatively short period of time.
as one gets older though, time goes by ever faster, and one can observe
that less and less happens in a given
On 2011-06-15, at 3:42 PM, Dale Schumacher wrote:
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Dethe Elza de...@livingcode.org wrote:
In fact, I'm interested enough in the block structure visualization that
I've been porting just the blocks, without the Scratch semantics and
runtime, to the web. You
I like it. My son is very keen on Scratch (although he prefers Lua
these days), but we picked up an Arduino kit last month, and I'm
looking forward to playing with that.
His eyes kind of glazed over looking at the C code, as simple as it is
for Arduino. I got the impression he was just happy to
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Dethe Elza de...@livingcode.org wrote:
Glad you like it. How old is your son? Maybe we should organize a Vancouver
Geek Kids, or meet up at
Maker Faire next week. Or there is this: http://www.tedxkidsbc.com/
TEDx kids looks wonderful - thanks for that link.
On 6/13/2011 8:09 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to do
serious programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves short
on some of the core concepts that
On 2011-06-14, at 12:33 PM, BGB wrote:
much younger, and it is doubtful people can do much of anything useful.
can you teach programming to a kindergartner?...
maybe not such a good idea, so, it is an issue for what a good lower-limit is
for where to try.
My kids learned to program around
I wonder if a thousand years ago the readers of the world thought that only
certain people had an aptitude for reading.
=
As a professional coder and father of young children I find Dethe's anecdote
of teaching his children to code/program at an early age has me thinking I
need to take
On 15/06/2011, at 9:00 AM, Kevin Driedger wrote:
I wonder if a thousand years ago the readers of the world thought that only
certain people had an aptitude for reading.
=
As a professional coder and father of young children I find Dethe's anecdote
of teaching his children to
On 2011-06-14, at 9:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as
equal is that we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so
much of them in terms of linguistic and cognitive development... and actually
the
Below.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 2:16 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:02 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
Syntax
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to
do serious programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves
short on some of the core concepts that conventional programming languages
expect of
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