Victor Mote wrote:
FYI, I now have the Knuth books Digital Typography and the 5-volume
Computers Typesetting, and have perused the relevant sections. The h j
For any who are interested in line-breaking, I highly recommend at least
reading through this material. The book has a lot of other
Oleg Tkachenko wrote:
I've got this book too, good one, but too TeX-oriented IMO.
True enough that the book in general is TeX- Metafont-oriented. However, I
thought the chapter on line-breaking was general enough to be very useful to
us.
Victor Mote
At 12:51 AM 1/31/2003, you wrote:
I made an inquiry on URW's web site yesterday, and received a response
today. The short story is that what I had inferred from the postings on
other lists is correct: the patent to hz-program is now owned by Adobe, and
is probably the basis for their
Ralph LaChance wrote:
I'm puzzled how they can own a patent on an algorithm stated years
ago and summarized in a european student's thesis. But then I don'w
know about these things ;-)
I am under the impression that hz-program and pdfTeX were basically
independent efforts, probably with
I made an inquiry on URW's web site yesterday, and received a response
today. The short story is that what I had inferred from the postings on
other lists is correct: the patent to hz-program is now owned by Adobe, and
is probably the basis for their paragraph-level formatting in InDesign. So
to
Sebastian Rahtz (PassiveTeX) would be a good source of information. I
think he tends to hang around on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Btw, URW provide one of the best-known set of free Type1 fonts for linux.
Peter
Victor Mote wrote:
J.Pietschmann wrote:
The TeX-Book has a chapter about this problem. It
Peter B. West wrote:
These are interesting and important issues. I had no notion of the HZ
algorithm, but I was dimly aware from my reading as a teenager of the
rivers problem, and acutely conscious of its distracting effect from
my reading. In my thinking about layout, I have been
Victor Mote wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
These are interesting and important issues. I had no notion of the HZ
algorithm, but I was dimly aware from my reading as a teenager of the
rivers problem, and acutely conscious of its distracting effect from
my reading. In my thinking about layout, I
True, but I had in mind that any such approach will be built on the fact
that any layout is, in some sense, tentative. Rhett raised the question
some time ago of a means recording (and scoring) intermediate results,
something which will be an essential element of such a solution.
At
Peter B. West wrote:
At this stage, I would tend to think not of
doing every possible layout, but of following
the optimum values to perform initial layout,
and then testing the result for goodness.
The minimum-maximum range provides the slack -
within the context of the spec - for applying
: source for hz algorithm
Rhett,
Discussion of the actual algorithms would be of general interest, I think.
Peter
Rhett Aultman wrote:
My girlfriend just located both volumes at the University of Central Florida library
and is bringing them home for me to peruse.
Vic, why don't you email me
]
Subject: Re: source for hz algorithm
Layout sometimes occurs in an environment of known available BPDimension
and IPDimension, sometimes with only one dimension, and sometimes with
neither. In the latter cases, the layout process is effectively a probe
to see what the dimensional requirements range
Oops.
Peter
Rhett Aultman wrote:
I'd meant for him to contact me privately so I could mail him some photocopies and save him the trouble of trying to find copies of the book.
--
Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/
Lord, to whom shall we go?
, January 29, 2003 5:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: source for hz algorithm
The idea I am working with (of which I have prototype working) is that a break is
after a line. For this break it finds the BPD distance from the top down (flow layout
manager) from the start of the page
Keiron Liddle wrote:
True, but I had in mind that any such approach will be built on the fact
that any layout is, in some sense, tentative. Rhett raised the question
some time ago of a means recording (and scoring) intermediate results,
something which will be an essential element of such a
Message-
From: Peter B. West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: source for hz algorithm
Layout sometimes occurs in an environment of known available BPDimension
and IPDimension, sometimes with only one dimension, and sometimes
Peter B. West wrote:
Victor Mote wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
These are interesting and important issues. I had no notion of the HZ
algorithm, but I was dimly aware from my reading as a teenager of the
rivers problem, and acutely conscious of its distracting effect from
my reading. In my
Clay Leeds wrote:
Does the idea that there would be intermediate results mean that a
human could determine which is the best to perform the final layout?
I'm thinking of a system similar to how some OCR programs enable the
user to contribute to the process of recognition when the OCR program
Forgive the response to my own post...
Clay Leeds wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
Victor Mote wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
These are interesting and important issues. I had no notion of the HZ
algorithm, but I was dimly aware from my reading as a teenager of the
rivers problem, and acutely
the equine species (...getting DesCartes before the
horse, or de cart before the horse...bad joke)
-Original Message-
From: Clay Leeds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: source for hz algorithm
Peter B. West wrote:
Victor
Clay Leeds wrote:
Does the idea that there would be intermediate results mean that a
human could determine which is the best to perform the final layout?
I'm thinking of a system similar to how some OCR programs enable the
user to contribute to the process of recognition when the OCR
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 09:05 AM, Victor Mote wrote:
BTW, I looked for but did not find licensing information at tug ctan
licensing information, as well as in my Norman Walsh book Making TeX
Work.
Does it use a GPL? If it had a compatible licensing scheme, it would
sure
seem to
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote:
Information about the licenses used by the TeX related softwares
are available on this page:
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/licenses.html
The core of TeX, the files written by Donald Knuth, doesn't seem to
be covered by a particular
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:20 PM, Rhett Aultman wrote:
This might be semantic nitpicking more than anything, but how can
finding a worse break prove you have the best break? Wouldn't you have
to find all possible breaks and verify that they're worse? Also,
just for personal
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 09:54 PM, J.Pietschmann wrote:
Keiron Liddle wrote:
The only drawback is that it constantly needs to find the child layout
manager that applies to a given break...
Well, if there is a min opt max, and opt doesn't quite fit,
you have to choose whether to
Here's what I was able to scrounge up...
This first page has a couple posts from the TeX crowd about this and a list of
relevant works. This may aid in a follow up
http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~aslakr/hz.html
This appears to be a short copy of Zapf's original paper on the HZ program:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Victor Mote wrote:
I have been looking for some time for a source for the HZ (Hermann Zapf)
algorithm which (as I understand) optimizes line breaks for multiple lines,
looking for rivers, too many lines in a row ending in hyphens, etc. I think
I first saw it referenced
, January 28, 2003 12:05 PM
To: mailing list fop-dev; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: source for hz algorithm
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Victor Mote wrote:
I have been looking for some time for a source for the HZ (Hermann Zapf)
algorithm which (as I understand) optimizes line breaks for multiple lines
Victor Mote wrote:
I have been looking for some time for a source for the HZ (Hermann Zapf)
algorithm which (as I understand) optimizes line breaks for multiple lines,
The TeX-Book has a chapter about this problem. It is available
as textbook.tex (in TeX, and quite officially). Amazingly, I
Victor,
These are interesting and important issues. I had no notion of the HZ
algorithm, but I was dimly aware from my reading as a teenager of the
rivers problem, and acutely conscious of its distracting effect from
my reading. In my thinking about layout, I have been conscious of the
need
Rhett,
Discussion of the actual algorithms would be of general interest, I think.
Peter
Rhett Aultman wrote:
My girlfriend just located both volumes at the University of Central Florida library and is bringing them home for me to peruse.
Vic, why don't you email me privately so we can discuss
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