RE: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

In this day and age, is Internet "bandwidth" use for text e-mails really an 
issue? :)

Plus, are you saying that you know/believe that FrameMaker is not going to be 
released as a cloud-based license model soon? Love to hear the news.

And, in my opinion, btw, my discussion (feel free to call it whining perhaps? 
:)) on license cost/models of FrameMaker is fair game for this mailing list ...

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:05 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

...and please stop taking up bandwidth about an issue that has not been 
announced as an issue by the TCS team!

-Matt
Matt R. Sullivan
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 
11
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | 
m...@mattrsullivan.com

[cid:image001.png@01CE8348.4420D750]@mattrsullivan
 [cid:image002.png@01CE8348.4420D750] 
 
LinkedIn 
[cid:image003.png@01CE8348.4420D750]  
facebook 
[cid:image004.png@01CE8348.4420D750]  
mattrsullivan.com

On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Robert Lauriston 
mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>> wrote:


So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't
imagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they
don't do already.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net) 
mailto:syed.hos...@aeris.net>> wrote:

Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
"no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.
___


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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

In this day and age, is Internet "bandwidth" use for text e-mails really an 
issue? :)

Plus, are you saying that you know/believe that FrameMaker is not going to be 
released as a cloud-based license model soon? Love to hear the news.

And, in my opinion, btw, my discussion (feel free to call it whining perhaps? 
:)) on license cost/models of FrameMaker is fair game for this mailing list ...

Z

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:05 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

...and please stop taking up bandwidth about an issue that has not been 
announced as an issue by the TCS team!

-Matt
Matt R. Sullivan
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 
11<http://framemaker11book.com/>
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | matt at mattrsullivan.com<mailto:matt at 
mattrsullivan.com>

[cid:image001.png at 
01CE8348.4420D750]<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>@mattrsullivan<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>
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<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> [cid:image003.png at 
01CE8348.4420D750] <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan> 
facebook<http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan> [cid:image004.png at 
01CE8348.4420D750] <http://mattrsullivan.com/> 
mattrsullivan.com<http://mattrsullivan.com/>

On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Robert Lauriston mailto:robert at lauriston.com>> wrote:


So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't
imagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they
don't do already.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(Syed.Hosain at aeris.net<mailto:Syed.Hosain at aeris.net>) mailto:Syed.Hosain at aeris.net>> wrote:

Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
"no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.
___


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RE: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

As has been stated before, we obviously think differently. My perspective is 
that new versions of software generally do have bug fixes, code improvements, 
etc., and in general run better, faster, with new features, etc. So, I *prefer* 
to upgrade when new versions are released - although this proved to be a waste, 
IMHO, from FM 9 to FM 10 to FM 11 - these should all have been mostly bug-fix 
releases as far as I am concerned.

However, the SaaS model for all Adobe tools - and FrameMaker is not in the 
current version of CC, fwiw - is too expensive at $600 per year ... for *my* 
needs.

For me, the previous FrameMaker upgrade license model pricing had become 
unworkable (the increase in upgrade cost to $399 was too high to be 
justifiable).

And, yes, as should be obvious, I am not upgrading Adobe tools anymore - simply 
switching to far more cost-effective products from other companies.

YMMV, of course.

Z

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't imagine 
> much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they don't do 
> already.


___


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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

As has been stated before, we obviously think differently. My perspective is 
that new versions of software generally do have bug fixes, code improvements, 
etc., and in general run better, faster, with new features, etc. So, I *prefer* 
to upgrade when new versions are released - although this proved to be a waste, 
IMHO, from FM 9 to FM 10 to FM 11 - these should all have been mostly bug-fix 
releases as far as I am concerned.

However, the SaaS model for all Adobe tools - and FrameMaker is not in the 
current version of CC, fwiw - is too expensive at $600 per year ... for *my* 
needs.

For me, the previous FrameMaker upgrade license model pricing had become 
unworkable (the increase in upgrade cost to $399 was too high to be 
justifiable).

And, yes, as should be obvious, I am not upgrading Adobe tools anymore - simply 
switching to far more cost-effective products from other companies.

YMMV, of course.

Z

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't imagine 
> much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they don't do 
> already.

18 July 9AM webinar on Tech Comm Suite integration FrameMaker > RoboHelp

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

9AM Pacific Friday July 18 - register at: http://adobe.ly/14ZzI3E
July 18: FrameMaker > RoboHelp Integration
Need to publish your FrameMaker content to online and mobile formats? 
FrameMaker 11, as part of the Technical Communication Suite 4 is your ideal 
choice.  Join us as veteran online trainer and Adobe Certified Instructor Matt 
Sullivan shows you how to rapidly link and map your FrameMaker content into 
RoboHelp 10, and then output to nearly any online format. Once your initial 
setup is complete, Matt will show you how to keep your content in sync, and 
manage your workflow. You will learn to:

 *   Link FrameMaker content to RoboHelp
 *   Make use of FrameMaker generated files (TOC, IX, Glossary) in your 
RoboHelp output
 *   Map FrameMaker content into appropriate RoboHelp structures, including
*   Tables
*   Lists
*   Headings
*   Cross-references
*   Graphics
 *   Process FrameMaker conditional text as RoboHelp Conditional Build Tags for 
better control of online content
 *   Manually adjust your conversion CSS to control and customize your 
conversion.
 *   At the end of this session you will be able to create a working FrameMaker 
to RoboHelp conversion project, which can then be modified per your 
organization's HTML formatting requirements.
About our presenter:
Matt Sullivan is an Adobe Certified Instructor and Adobe Certified Expert in 
ten different Adobe publishing and e-learning applications, including 
everything in the Technical Communication Suite 4. He teaches online and 
in-person classes as well as helping companies improve their publishing 
workflow.
Matt spent years setting up electronic prepress departments for commercial 
printers prior to the start of his training career. After that,  Matt ran his 
own Adobe Authorized Training Centers (GRAFIX Training, in southern 
California), managed the training arm of roundpeg, Inc., and co-wrote the 
definitive FrameMaker 11 reference book, Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured 
FrameMaker 11. He has represented Adobe in countless conferences, trained 
FrameMaker support personnel, presented webinars, and assisted in Adobe pre- 
and post-sale engagements. To learn more about Matt, and what he does, you can 
perform a web search on his social media id, mattrsullivan.
Here is a tweet you can share:

18July webinar "2) Exploring TCS4: FrameMaker > ROBOHELP Integration" 
@mattrsullivan adobe.ly/14ZzI3E<http://adobe.ly/14ZzI3E> #RoboHelp



Maxwell Hoffmann |  Product  Evangelist  |  Adobe  |  p. 503.336.5952  |  c. 
503.805.3719  |  mhoffman at adobe.com<mailto:mhoffman at adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann -  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann  blogs.adobe.com/techcomm
Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: 
http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J


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Re: Custom Ruling in Multiple Table Headings using Read write rules.

[Matt Sullivan]

Lisa, have you tried assigning a table format rather than explicitly formatting the row?
-MattMatt R. Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com @mattrsullivan LinkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com 

On Jul 17, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Lisa Freeman  wrote:I am using read write rules along with my EDD, etc. to convert XML to structured FrameMaker files. Is anyone familiar with using RW rules to control the row ruling within multiple heading rows? I am able to get the 2nd heading line in with a mix of xml tagging and my rules. What I'm having an issue with is that the first heading row has to have lines at the top and bottom, but the 2nd heading row has the line at the top but not at the bottom. I've looked in every Developer reference I can find and what I have in my rules should be working according to them. Below is a portion of my RW rules. Can anyone save my sanity? element "PartsTableHeadingRow"{is fm table row element;fm property row ruling value is "1";}element "PartsTableHeadingRow2"{is fm table row element;fm property row ruling value is "0";}For each cell in the first heading row I have:element "THCELL1"{is fm table cell element "THCELL1";fm property column number value is "1";fm property row ruling value is "1";fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow";}.For each cell in the second heading row I have:element "THCELL21"{is fm table cell element "THCELL21";fm property column number value is "1";fm property row ruling value is "0";fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow2";}Thank you in advance for any assistance!Lisa   Sincerely,Lisa FreemanPublication Support Analyst  **Confidentiality NoticeThe information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended for use only by the person(s) or organization listed in the address. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at O'Neil & Associates, Inc., immediately. Any copying, dissemination, or distribution of this communication, other than by the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited.**___You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___


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Custom Ruling in Multiple Table Headings using Read write rules.

[Matt Sullivan]

Lisa, have you tried assigning a table format rather than explicitly formatting 
the row?

-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | matt at mattrsullivan.com 

@mattrsullivan LinkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com 

On Jul 17, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Lisa Freeman  wrote:

> I am using read write rules along with my EDD, etc. to convert XML to 
> structured FrameMaker files. Is anyone familiar with using RW rules to 
> control the row ruling within multiple heading rows? I am able to get the 2nd 
> heading line in with a mix of xml tagging and my rules. What I'm having an 
> issue with is that the first heading row has to have lines at the top and 
> bottom, but the 2nd heading row has the line at the top but not at the 
> bottom. I've looked in every Developer reference I can find and what I have 
> in my rules should be working according to them. Below is a portion of my RW 
> rules. Can anyone save my sanity?
> 
>  element "PartsTableHeadingRow"
> 
> {
> 
> is fm table row element;
> 
> fm property row ruling value is "1";
> 
> }
> 
> element "PartsTableHeadingRow2"
> 
> {
> 
> is fm table row element;
> 
> fm property row ruling value is "0";
> 
> }
> 
> For each cell in the first heading row I have:
> 
> element "THCELL1"
> 
> {
> 
> is fm table cell element "THCELL1";
> 
> fm property column number value is "1";
> 
> fm property row ruling value is "1";
> 
> fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow";
> 
> }
> 
> .
> 
> For each cell in the second heading row I have:
> 
> element "THCELL21"
> 
> {
> 
> is fm table cell element "THCELL21";
> 
> fm property column number value is "1";
> 
> fm property row ruling value is "0";
> 
> fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow2";
> 
> }
> 
> Thank you in advance for any assistance!
> 
> Lisa
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Sincerely,
> Lisa Freeman
> Publication Support Analyst
>  
>  
> 
> **
> Confidentiality Notice
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended for use 
> only by the person(s) or organization listed in the address. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please contact the sender at O'Neil & 
> Associates, Inc., immediately. Any copying, dissemination, or distribution of 
> this communication, other than by the intended recipient, is strictly 
> prohibited.
> **
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as matt at mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com
> 
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Re: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Matt Sullivan]

…and please stop taking up bandwidth about an issue that has not been announced as an issue by the TCS team! 
-MattMatt R. Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com @mattrsullivan LinkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com 

On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Robert Lauriston  wrote:So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can'timagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that theydon't do already.On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, "no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.___You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___


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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Matt Sullivan]

?and please stop taking up bandwidth about an issue that has not been announced 
as an issue by the TCS team! 

-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | matt at mattrsullivan.com 

@mattrsullivan LinkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com 

On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't
> imagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they
> don't do already.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
> (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
>> Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
>> the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
>> "no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as matt at mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Re: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Robert Lauriston]

So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't
imagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they
don't do already.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
> the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
> "no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.
___


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Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Custom Ruling in Multiple Table Headings using Read write rules.

[Lisa Freeman]

I am using read write rules along with my EDD, etc. to convert XML to 
structured FrameMaker files. Is anyone familiar with using RW rules to control 
the row ruling within multiple heading rows? I am able to get the 2nd heading 
line in with a mix of xml tagging and my rules. What I'm having an issue with 
is that the first heading row has to have lines at the top and bottom, but the 
2nd heading row has the line at the top but not at the bottom. I've looked in 
every Developer reference I can find and what I have in my rules should be 
working according to them. Below is a portion of my RW rules. Can anyone save 
my sanity?

 element "PartsTableHeadingRow"

{

is fm table row element;

fm property row ruling value is "1";

}

element "PartsTableHeadingRow2"

{

is fm table row element;

fm property row ruling value is "0";

}

For each cell in the first heading row I have:

element "THCELL1"

{

is fm table cell element "THCELL1";

fm property column number value is "1";

fm property row ruling value is "1";

fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow";

}

.

For each cell in the second heading row I have:

element "THCELL21"

{

is fm table cell element "THCELL21";

fm property column number value is "1";

fm property row ruling value is "0";

fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow2";

}

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

Lisa



Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst



**
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Re: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Grant Hogarth]

David, it seems logical to me:
if the CC licence is for version >6, and your CS version is 6, flies 
created with the cloud version won't be able to be opened with your 
local version.  Just like you cannot open FM version 10 files in FM 
version 9.


Grant

On 7/17/2013 4:52 AM, David Creamer wrote:

If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training



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RE: Setting up files for structured use

[Craig Ede]

Fair enough. I misunderstood that state of things.

 

BTW: My description is flawed about the structapps files. It does read the
local one on the next load of FM.

 

Craig

 

From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 8:26 PM
To: craig...@hotmail.com
Cc: 'Framer's List'; dave.st...@gdc4s.com
Subject: Re: Setting up files for structured use

 

Yes, indeed it would be overkill. However, I was recommending Dave go to an
install that had yet to be mucked. (a fresh install, not a reinstall) 

 

Attempting to remedy the existing mucked files could result in much wheel
spinning that might make reinstalling Fm seem like a modest proposal.


-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11
  
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com 

  @mattrsullivan

 LinkedIn

 facebook
   
mattrsullivan.com    

 

On Jul 16, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Craig Ede  wrote:





Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill.

 

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RE: Setting up files for structured use

[Craig Ede]

Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill. When editing the maker.ini file it is a good idea to make a copy
in the same location. I name the copy maker.ini.ORIG, so I can use that to
get back to the original settings if they are needed.

 

This use of two structapps (local and global) files started with FM10.

There's a discussion about the use of a network drive for common structure
files in one of the Adobe webinars.

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/event/index.cfm?event=set_registered&id=2243297
&loc=en_us

The relevant comments begin about 11:15 into the webinar.

 

The one you edit by using you choose Structure Tools > Edit Application
Definitions is the local one. When you edit that file, save it and then do a
Read Application Definitions (to allow your application to use the new
definitions) everything is okay and you can use your new application.
However...

 

The global file is not affected by these edits. Next time you start FM and
it reads from the global file, your new application definition will not be
there. You have to copy the application definition in your local file into
the global file.  Your problem with RW file not being seen may simply be a
result of that. The discussion of the structure app file is at about 18:00
in the webinar.

 

Craig

 

- snipped -

With Fm11, there are now 2 copies of the maker.ini (userdata directory and
install directory) and 2 copies of the structapps file (local and global,
both available from the Structure menu in Fm11), and I'm betting you're
getting snarled in the combinations of these files.

 

 

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RE: Index and Glossary

[Bethany Lee]

Does this help?
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/WSd817046a44e105e21e63e3d11ab7f7960b-7ed5.html


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Donald Rinderknecht 
- NOAA Federal
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:24 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Index and Glossary

Hi Framers,

Am I imagining things? I thought there was a way to generate an index based 
upon a list of terms, but I can't find anything in the documentation.

We're trying to build a glossary and I thought that tool might be useful.

Any tips?

Thanks,
don

--
Don Rinderknecht
Meteorologist Instructor
Warning Decision Training Branch
Norman, OK
405.325.2805

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Custom Ruling in Multiple Table Headings using Read write rules.

[Lisa Freeman]

I am using read write rules along with my EDD, etc. to convert XML to 
structured FrameMaker files. Is anyone familiar with using RW rules to control 
the row ruling within multiple heading rows? I am able to get the 2nd heading 
line in with a mix of xml tagging and my rules. What I'm having an issue with 
is that the first heading row has to have lines at the top and bottom, but the 
2nd heading row has the line at the top but not at the bottom. I've looked in 
every Developer reference I can find and what I have in my rules should be 
working according to them. Below is a portion of my RW rules. Can anyone save 
my sanity?

 element "PartsTableHeadingRow"

{

is fm table row element;

fm property row ruling value is "1";

}

element "PartsTableHeadingRow2"

{

is fm table row element;

fm property row ruling value is "0";

}

For each cell in the first heading row I have:

element "THCELL1"

{

is fm table cell element "THCELL1";

fm property column number value is "1";

fm property row ruling value is "1";

fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow";

}

.

For each cell in the second heading row I have:

element "THCELL21"

{

is fm table cell element "THCELL21";

fm property column number value is "1";

fm property row ruling value is "0";

fm property row type value is "PartsTableHeadRow2";

}

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

Lisa



Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst



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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Robert Lauriston]

So if you don't like the new licensing model, don't upgrade. I can't
imagine much useful that Adobe's going to add to those apps that they
don't do already.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
> Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
> the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
> "no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.

RE: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Oops, my apologies too. Please ignore my last e-mail too - I responded to it 
before I saw this one from you and from others.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:39 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

I apologize--it was pointed out to me that you were talking about the FILES, 
not the software. Now that I re-read the email, I see that too. If you get too 
many versions beyond the new CC (what ever they will be called), the files 
PROBABLY won't be able to be saved back (unless Adobe builds in a permanent CS6 
save-down).

If you get cancel with current version and need to save back to CS6, you can 
either re-subscribe for a month--or get a gmail address, a new Adobe ID using 
that address, and then use CC for 30 days.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

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RE: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
"no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.

This is true for FrameMaker for example ... try reading FM 11 files in FM 7.2 
and you will see what happens.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:53 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Oops, my apologies too. Please ignore my last e-mail too - I responded to it 
before I saw this one from you and from others.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:39 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

I apologize--it was pointed out to me that you were talking about the FILES, 
not the software. Now that I re-read the email, I see that too. If you get too 
many versions beyond the new CC (what ever they will be called), the files 
PROBABLY won't be able to be saved back (unless Adobe builds in a permanent CS6 
save-down).

If you get cancel with current version and need to save back to CS6, you can 
either re-subscribe for a month--or get a gmail address, a new Adobe ID using 
that address, and then use CC for 30 days.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Ummm ... I believe that his point was that, in time, the file format used by 
the "ever-improving" versions of CC would become unreadable in the existing, 
"no longer upgraded" version of CS6. It is a highly likely possibility.

This is true for FrameMaker for example ... try reading FM 11 files in FM 7.2 
and you will see what happens.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:53 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Mike Wickham]

Read my note again. I didn't say CS6 would stop working. I said that 
files created in the CC version may not  always be backward compatible 
with CS6. Right now, I don't know if CC has introduced any features that 
create files that aren't backward compatible, but each new edition of 
Photoshop tends to do so-- smart objects, etc.

Mike

On 7/17/2013 5:52 AM, David Creamer wrote:
>> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
>> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
>> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
>> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
>> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
>> useless.
> Where did you get that info?
> If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after 
> canceling a Cloud subscription.
> Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
> working.
>
> David Creamer
> IDEAS Training
>
> _

OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[David Creamer]

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

I apologize--it was pointed out to me that you were talking about the FILES, 
not the software. Now that I re-read the email, I see that too. If you get too 
many versions beyond the new CC (what ever they will be called), the files 
PROBABLY won't be able to be saved back (unless Adobe builds in a permanent CS6 
save-down).

If you get cancel with current version and need to save back to CS6, you can 
either re-subscribe for a month--or get a gmail address, a new Adobe ID using 
that address, and then use CC for 30 days.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

Re: Setting up files for structured use

[Chris Despopoulos]

Hi Dave...

I haven't followed this thread closely, but I have to say that is VERY unusual 
that there would be a problem with Maker faithfully reading the read/write 
rules file.  If that's what's happening, then there must be an error in your 
installation and/or setup of the configuration files.  Likewise, if you're 
talking about the application definition files, that's a similar issue -- once 
you configure things right, it's hard to imagine any inconsistencies in how 
Maker reads in the app definitions.

That said, I do feel your pain -- an XML application is pretty convoluted for 
any product.  FrameMaker has its own foibles in this department.  But again, 
once you get it all straight and working, you should get very consistent 
results.

I'll also say that if PDF output is a requirement for you, nothing beats 
FrameMaker DITA (or whatever XML) to PDF.  As for editing XML, I'm currently 
using Maker in a DITA work flow, and have no problems.  

Whichever way you go, hang in there!!!

cud

Dave Stamm said:
Thanks so much for the info.  I'll check it out.  The problem of
FrameMaker's not faithfully reading the "rules" file, wherever it is,
looks like a deal breaker that, I'm sorry to say, gives me pause about
continuing using FrameMaker.  There's just so much "pressure" to use
other XML editor computer programs . . ..___


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Setting up files for structured use

[Chris Despopoulos]

Hi Dave...

I haven't followed this thread closely, but I have to say that is VERY unusual 
that there would be a problem with Maker faithfully reading the read/write 
rules file.? If that's what's happening, then there must be an error in your 
installation and/or setup of the configuration files.? Likewise, if you're 
talking about the application definition files, that's a similar issue -- once 
you configure things right, it's hard to imagine any inconsistencies in how 
Maker reads in the app definitions.

That said, I do feel your pain -- an XML application is pretty convoluted for 
any product.? FrameMaker has its own foibles in this department.? But again, 
once you get it all straight and working, you should get very consistent 
results.

I'll also say that if PDF output is a requirement for you, nothing beats 
FrameMaker DITA (or whatever XML) to PDF.? As for editing XML, I'm currently 
using Maker in a DITA work flow, and have no problems.? 

Whichever way you go, hang in there!!!

cud

Dave Stamm said:
Thanks so much for the info.? I'll check it out.? The problem of
FrameMaker's not faithfully reading the "rules" file, wherever it is,
looks like a deal breaker that, I'm sorry to say, gives me pause about
continuing using FrameMaker.? There's just so much "pressure" to use
other XML editor computer programs . . ..
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Re: OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Mike Wickham]

Read my note again. I didn't say CS6 would stop working. I said that 
files created in the CC version may not  always be backward compatible 
with CS6. Right now, I don't know if CC has introduced any features that 
create files that aren't backward compatible, but each new edition of 
Photoshop tends to do so-- smart objects, etc.


Mike

On 7/17/2013 5:52 AM, David Creamer wrote:

If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

_



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OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Grant Hogarth]

David, it seems logical to me:
if the CC licence is for version >6, and your CS version is 6, flies 
created with the cloud version won't be able to be opened with your 
local version.  Just like you cannot open FM version 10 files in FM 
version 9.

Grant

On 7/17/2013 4:52 AM, David Creamer wrote:
>> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
>> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
>> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
>> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
>> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
>> useless.
> Where did you get that info?
> If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after 
> canceling a Cloud subscription.
> Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
> working.
>
> David Creamer
> IDEAS Training
>

OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[David Creamer]

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

I apologize--it was pointed out to me that you were talking about the FILES, 
not the software. Now that I re-read the email, I see that too. If you get too 
many versions beyond the new CC (what ever they will be called), the files 
PROBABLY won't be able to be saved back (unless Adobe builds in a permanent CS6 
save-down).

If you get cancel with current version and need to save back to CS6, you can 
either re-subscribe for a month--or get a gmail address, a new Adobe ID using 
that address, and then use CC for 30 days.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

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RE: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Combs, Richard]

David Creamer wrote:
 
> > If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
> > using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
> > perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
> > path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
> > files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
> > useless.
> 
> Where did you get that info?
> If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after
> canceling a Cloud subscription.

I think the OP's unstated assumption is that if you go down the subscription 
path, you'll always be on the latest version, and at some point in the future, 
files created or saved in that version will no longer be compatible with the 
CS6 version. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[Combs, Richard]

David Creamer wrote:

> > If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop
> > using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a
> > perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade
> > path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current
> > files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it
> > useless.
> 
> Where did you get that info?
> If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after
> canceling a Cloud subscription.

I think the OP's unstated assumption is that if you go down the subscription 
path, you'll always be on the latest version, and at some point in the future, 
files created or saved in that version will no longer be compatible with the 
CS6 version. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[David Creamer]

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

RE: Setting up files for structured use

[Dave.Stamm]

2013-07-17-03T12:55Z

 

Matt -

 

Thanks for the customary caution about protecting files.  According to
our custom, our "source" \ structapps.fm is in safekeeping on a server
that is backed up.

 

Regards,

Dave Stamm

Information Engineer

 

From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
Sent: 2013-07-16-Tuesday 20:26
To: craig...@hotmail.com
Cc: 'Framer's List'; Stamm, David-P45904
Subject: Re: Setting up files for structured use

 

Yes, indeed it would be overkill. However, I was recommending Dave go to
an install that had yet to be mucked. (a fresh install, not a reinstall)


 

Attempting to remedy the existing mucked files could result in much
wheel spinning that might make reinstalling Fm seem like a modest
proposal.


-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11
  
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com 

   @mattrsullivan
   
 LinkedIn
   
 facebook
 
mattrsullivan.com    

 

On Jul 16, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Craig Ede  wrote:





Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill.

 

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Setting up files for structured use

[dave.st...@gdc4s.com]

2013-07-17-03T12:55Z



Matt -



Thanks for the customary caution about protecting files.  According to
our custom, our "source" \ structapps.fm is in safekeeping on a server
that is backed up.



Regards,

Dave Stamm

Information Engineer



From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
Sent: 2013-07-16-Tuesday 20:26
To: craigede at hotmail.com
Cc: 'Framer's List'; Stamm, David-P45904
Subject: Re: Setting up files for structured use



Yes, indeed it would be overkill. However, I was recommending Dave go to
an install that had yet to be mucked. (a fresh install, not a reinstall)




Attempting to remedy the existing mucked files could result in much
wheel spinning that might make reinstalling Fm seem like a modest
proposal.


-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan 
co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11
<http://framemaker11book.com/>  
P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | matt at mattrsullivan.com 

  <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> @mattrsullivan
<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>   
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>   
<http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan> facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan><http://mattrsullivan.com/> 
mattrsullivan.com <http://mattrsullivan.com/>   



On Jul 16, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Craig Ede  wrote:





Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill.



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RE: Setting up files for structured use

[Dave.Stamm]

2013-07-17-03T12:30Z

 

Craig -

 

Thanks so much for the info.  I'll check it out.  The problem of
FrameMaker's not faithfully reading the "rules" file, wherever it is,
looks like a deal breaker that, I'm sorry to say, gives me pause about
continuing using FrameMaker.  There's just so much "pressure" to use
other XML editor computer programs . . ..

 

Regards,

Dave Stamm

Information Engineer

General Dynamics C4 Systems, Inc.

Integrated Log Engr Svc, Logistics Section

1700 Magnavox Way, Suite 200 We'll hit your targets from here.(tm)

Fort Wayne, Indiana  46804-1552; US

tel:  260-434-9620 fax:  260.434.9501 / 9509

dave.st...@gdc4s.com http://www.gdc4s.com/

 

This message and / or attachments may include information subject to
GDC4S S.P. 1.8.6 and GD Corporate Policy 07-105 and are intended to be
accessed only by authorized recipients.  Use, storage and transmission
are governed by General Dynamics and its policies.  Contractual
restrictions apply to third parties.  Recipients should refer to the
policies or contract to determine proper handling.   Unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
an intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies
of the original message.

 

From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 2013-07-16-Tuesday 19:53
To: m...@mattrsullivan.com; 'Framer's List'; Stamm, David-P45904
Subject: RE: Setting up files for structured use

 

Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill. When editing the maker.ini file it is a good idea to make a
copy in the same location. I name the copy maker.ini.ORIG, so I can use
that to get back to the original settings if they are needed.

 

This use of two structapps (local and global) files started with FM10.

There's a discussion about the use of a network drive for common
structure files in one of the Adobe webinars.

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/event/index.cfm?event=set_registered&id=224
3297&loc=en_us

The relevant comments begin about 11:15 into the webinar.

 

The one you edit by using you choose Structure Tools > Edit Application
Definitions is the local one. When you edit that file, save it and then
do a Read Application Definitions (to allow your application to use the
new definitions) everything is okay and you can use your new
application. However...

 

The global file is not affected by these edits. Next time you start FM
and it reads from the global file, your new application definition will
not be there. You have to copy the application definition in your local
file into the global file.  Your problem with RW file not being seen may
simply be a result of that. The discussion of the structure app file is
at about 18:00 in the webinar.

 

Craig

 

- snipped -

With Fm11, there are now 2 copies of the maker.ini (userdata directory
and install directory) and 2 copies of the structapps file (local and
global, both available from the Structure menu in Fm11), and I'm betting
you're getting snarled in the combinations of these files.

 

 

___


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Setting up files for structured use

[dave.st...@gdc4s.com]

2013-07-17-03T12:30Z



Craig -



Thanks so much for the info.  I'll check it out.  The problem of
FrameMaker's not faithfully reading the "rules" file, wherever it is,
looks like a deal breaker that, I'm sorry to say, gives me pause about
continuing using FrameMaker.  There's just so much "pressure" to use
other XML editor computer programs . . ..



Regards,

Dave Stamm

Information Engineer

General Dynamics C4 Systems, Inc.

Integrated Log Engr Svc, Logistics Section

1700 Magnavox Way, Suite 200 We'll hit your targets from here.(tm)

Fort Wayne, Indiana  46804-1552; US

tel:  260-434-9620 fax:  260.434.9501 / 9509

dave.stamm at gdc4s.com http://www.gdc4s.com/



This message and / or attachments may include information subject to
GDC4S S.P. 1.8.6 and GD Corporate Policy 07-105 and are intended to be
accessed only by authorized recipients.  Use, storage and transmission
are governed by General Dynamics and its policies.  Contractual
restrictions apply to third parties.  Recipients should refer to the
policies or contract to determine proper handling.   Unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
an intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies
of the original message.



From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 2013-07-16-Tuesday 19:53
To: matt at mattrsullivan.com; 'Framer's List'; Stamm, David-P45904
Subject: RE: Setting up files for structured use



Reinstalling completely to fix the maker.ini files seems a bit like
overkill. When editing the maker.ini file it is a good idea to make a
copy in the same location. I name the copy maker.ini.ORIG, so I can use
that to get back to the original settings if they are needed.



This use of two structapps (local and global) files started with FM10.

There's a discussion about the use of a network drive for common
structure files in one of the Adobe webinars.

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/event/index.cfm?event=set_registered&id=224
3297&loc=en_us

The relevant comments begin about 11:15 into the webinar.



The one you edit by using you choose Structure Tools > Edit Application
Definitions is the local one. When you edit that file, save it and then
do a Read Application Definitions (to allow your application to use the
new definitions) everything is okay and you can use your new
application. However...



The global file is not affected by these edits. Next time you start FM
and it reads from the global file, your new application definition will
not be there. You have to copy the application definition in your local
file into the global file.  Your problem with RW file not being seen may
simply be a result of that. The discussion of the structure app file is
at about 18:00 in the webinar.



Craig



- snipped -

With Fm11, there are now 2 copies of the maker.ini (userdata directory
and install directory) and 2 copies of the structapps file (local and
global, both available from the Structure menu in Fm11), and I'm betting
you're getting snarled in the combinations of these files.





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OT: Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (again)

[David Creamer]

> If you already own a perpetual license version, you don't have to stop 
> using it. But if you start out as a renter, you do. And if you own a 
> perpetual license, such as CS6, and then rent CC as your new upgrade 
> path, when you stop paying, there's a good chance that your current 
> files will no longer open in the CS6 version, potentially rendering it 
> useless.

Where did you get that info?
If you have CS6 via a perpetual license it will still work even after canceling 
a Cloud subscription.
Naturally, if you have CS6 via a Cloud subscription (like I do), it will stop 
working.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training

___


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