RE: End-of-flow wildcard? [footnote to the Word/Frame/ligature story]
In e-mails from the authors, read here as pure text, ligatures such as 'fi' and 'fl' appear as 'I dunno' characters: blank squares. When pasted into FrameMaker, the ligatures render correctly. However, FrameMaker puts a word break around them: for example, double-clicking on 'flow' highlights just the 'ow' part. Running a global find/replace on 'fl' and 'fi' and replacing them with themselves, i.e. 'f' and 'l' or 'f'' and 'i' typed into the Replace box, fixes the issue: FrameMaker can find the ligatures and correctly replace them with the relevant two-character pair. Weird... -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard? [footnote to the Word/Frame/ligature story]
At 12:39 + 27/1/14, Steve Rickaby wrote: Running a global find/replace on 'fl' and 'fi' and replacing them with themselves, i.e. 'f' and 'l' or 'f'' and 'i' typed into the Replace box, fixes the issue: FrameMaker can find the ligatures and correctly replace them with the relevant two-character pair. I lied: FrameMaker can't find the 'fl' if it is a ligature and 'f' 'l' are typed into the Find dialog. However - and this is weirder - I have had both 'fl' as a ligature and 'fl' as separate characters *in the same paragraph* of an e-mail from the authors. (That was what caused my erroneous posting.) I guess this is getting off the point, though, so I'll keep mum about it from now on. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
I'll second that recommendation for Rick's Table Cleaner. I couldn't manage without it. Keith From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:14 AM To: Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net); Rick Quatro; 'Steve Rickaby'; 'Craig Ede'; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? Are either of you using Rick Quatro's TableCleaner plug-in? At my last employer about a decade ago (my, how time files when you're having fun...) I converted well over 10K pages of legacy Word documentation to FrameMaker and I know I could never have done it without Rick's plug-in. It got rid of all sorts of Word-specific cruft and dealt with the way Frame imported every Word table with the custom ruling and shading flag set so that you wouldn't get the expected results when you applied a Frame table style. And it did it all in a single step. -Fred Ridder From: syed.hos...@aeris.net To: r...@rickquatro.com; srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk; craig...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:51:26 -0800 Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? Rick Quatro said: The FrameMaker Word import filter leaves a line-feed character at the end of each paragraph. You can't see it, but it is there and apparently affects your search. I routinely strip them out in my scripts. A MIF-wash should remove them. I have seen exactly this too. But, as I recall, a MIF-wash did not clear it up for me ... have not checked recently though. If the file was not too large and I had a bit of time for initial cleanup, my usual method was to bring it in as text and re-apply what FrameMaker paragraph and character formats I needed. A slow process (would take me a day or two for around less than 100 page documents), but resulted in cleaner FM files ultimately. Also gave me a chance to read the document and verify what I wanted it to say and look like. :) Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]mailto:[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:26 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as docu...@hotmail.commailto:docu...@hotmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/docudoc%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.commailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail, including all materials contained in or attached to this e-mail, contains proprietary and confidential information solely for the internal use of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and ensure that it is permanently deleted from your systems, and do not print, copy, distribute or read its contents. AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALIT? Le pr?sent courriel, y compris tous les documents qu'il contient ou qui y sont joints, renferme des renseignements exclusifs et confidentiels destin?s uniquement ? l'usage interne du destinataire pr?vu. Si vous avez re?u le pr?sent courriel par erreur, veuillez nous aviser imm?diatement, notamment par retour de courriel, et vous assurer qu'il est supprim
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 21:25 -0500 19/1/14, Rick Quatro wrote: The FrameMaker Word import filter leaves a line-feed character at the end of each paragraph. You can't see it, but it is there and apparently affects your search. I routinely strip them out in my scripts. A MIF-wash should remove them. Thanks Rick - very helpful (as always) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 18:51 -0800 19/1/14, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
A slow process (would take me a day or two for around less than 100 page
documents), but resulted in cleaner FM files ultimately. Also gave me a chance
to read the document and verify what I wanted it to say and look like. :)
I always 'maggy' a Word document to get a clean copy before import, and I've
not had too many issues. But it would be good to get the L/F characters out.
Having said 'not too many issues', this book has thrown up some new ones. The
source is from three authors working in Word in Finland: quite a lot of
inter-word spaces disappeared, and for some - but not all - files, all the
ligatures ('fl', 'fi' etc) disappeared too! I've never seen this before in a
couple of decades of inter-working between Word and FrameMaker. So 'flow'
became 'ow', 'first' became 'rst', 'configuration' became 'conguration' and so
on. These are the sorts of things that make an editor's life fun :-(
['Maggying', for anyone not familiar with it, consists of copying all of a Word
document except the final pilcrow, then pasting it into a new, clean Word
document and working with that. I believe the technique was named after its
originator. It can solve a lot of issues with Word, as apparently the final
pilcrow 'hides' a great deal of Word-crud.]
--
Steve
___
You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.
Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Maggying (named after former list member Maggie Secara, who first promoted the
technique here and on the copyeditors list) was a useful technique when Word
used a proprietary binary file format. The entire stylesheet and lots of other
voodoo was embedded in the final pilcrow character as a big binary lump and the
only way to force Word to rebuild it if it became corrupted was to Maggie the
document.
But in the current XML-based Word file format (.docx, .docm, .dotx, .dotm
extensions used in Word 2007 and later) does not use the same embed formatting
in the pilcrow technique. Instead, the single file you see is actually a zip
archive that contains dozens of separate XML objects that contain all the
formatting info and other metadata along with other XML objects for graphics
and the text of the file. There is absolutely no evidence that Maggying has any
beneficial effect on Word documents that use the Office XML format. It won't
*hurt* anything to do it, but it won't fix anything, either.
-Fred Ridder
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:15:57 +
To: syed.hos...@aeris.net; r...@rickquatro.com; craig...@hotmail.com;
framers@lists.frameusers.com
From: srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 18:51 -0800 19/1/14, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
A slow process (would take me a day or two for around less than 100 page
documents), but resulted in cleaner FM files ultimately. Also gave me a
chance to read the document and verify what I wanted it to say and look
like. :)
I always 'maggy' a Word document to get a clean copy before import, and I've
not had too many issues. But it would be good to get the L/F characters out.
Having said 'not too many issues', this book has thrown up some new ones. The
source is from three authors working in Word in Finland: quite a lot of
inter-word spaces disappeared, and for some - but not all - files, all the
ligatures ('fl', 'fi' etc) disappeared too! I've never seen this before in a
couple of decades of inter-working between Word and FrameMaker. So 'flow'
became 'ow', 'first' became 'rst', 'configuration' became 'conguration' and
so on. These are the sorts of things that make an editor's life fun :-(
['Maggying', for anyone not familiar with it, consists of copying all of a
Word document except the final pilcrow, then pasting it into a new, clean
Word document and working with that. I believe the technique was named after
its originator. It can solve a lot of issues with Word, as apparently the
final pilcrow 'hides' a great deal of Word-crud.]
--
Steve
___
You are currently subscribed to framers as docu...@hotmail.com.
Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/docudoc%40hotmail.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
___
You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.
Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 08:03 -0500 20/1/14, Fred Ridder wrote: But in the current XML-based Word file format (.docx, .docm, .dotx, .dotm extensions used in Word 2007 and later) does not use the same embed formatting in the pilcrow technique. Instead, the single file you see is actually a zip archive that contains dozens of separate XML objects that contain all the formatting info and other metadata along with other XML objects for graphics and the text of the file. There is absolutely no evidence that Maggying has any beneficial effect on Word documents that use the Office XML format. It won't *hurt* anything to do it, but it won't fix anything, either. Thanks for that clarification, Fred - you are of course absolutely right. As I still work in Word 2004, I still maggy stuff. [I've not heard anything that leads me to believe that more recent versions of Word offer any substantive improvements, but my views are based on the Mac versions, which have always been the poor cousins of the Windows versions.) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
There are two areas of improvements in Word versions from 2007 onwards that probably should be of interest to you because they can have a direct effect on the problem you described in your previous message. Those improvements relate to Unicode fonts and ligatures. The recognition and proper handling of TrueType ligatures was one of the major changes in Word 2010, which I assume also trickled down to Word 2011 for Mac. Has your client recently upgraded from the Word 2007/2008 generation to Word 2010 or later? If their files contain ligatures done right from a more current version of Word, that could explain why your copy of Word 2004 doesn't recognize them at all. -Fred Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 13:08:34 + To: docu...@hotmail.com; syed.hos...@aeris.net; r...@rickquatro.com; craig...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com From: srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 08:03 -0500 20/1/14, Fred Ridder wrote: But in the current XML-based Word file format (.docx, .docm, .dotx, .dotm extensions used in Word 2007 and later) does not use the same embed formatting in the pilcrow technique. Instead, the single file you see is actually a zip archive that contains dozens of separate XML objects that contain all the formatting info and other metadata along with other XML objects for graphics and the text of the file. There is absolutely no evidence that Maggying has any beneficial effect on Word documents that use the Office XML format. It won't *hurt* anything to do it, but it won't fix anything, either. Thanks for that clarification, Fred - you are of course absolutely right. As I still work in Word 2004, I still maggy stuff. [I've not heard anything that leads me to believe that more recent versions of Word offer any substantive improvements, but my views are based on the Mac versions, which have always been the poor cousins of the Windows versions.) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 08:20 -0500 20/1/14, Fred Ridder wrote: There are two areas of improvements in Word versions from 2007 onwards that probably should be of interest to you because they can have a direct effect on the problem you described in your previous message. Those improvements relate to Unicode fonts and ligatures. Useful to know. The recognition and proper handling of TrueType ligatures was one of the major changes in Word 2010, which I assume also trickled down to Word 2011 for Mac. Has your client recently upgraded from the Word 2007/2008 generation to Word 2010 or later? Hard to be sure, as Word doesn't seem to put a version stamp into its binaries (if they are such) denoting its version, as FrameMaker does. No sign of a 'docx file anywhere in the delivery. I would also assume that they worked in Windows. I get all manner of stuff coming in from Word, in all manner of qualities and with multiple versions, but in this case I'd say probably not Word 2010+ for the delivery, as the book arrived as one large .doc file, which I then burst into chapters for import into FrameMaker. The interesting thing was that only some of the chapters showed the ligature issue: my hunch is that all three authors worked in potentially differing versions, and the lead author then munged the lot into one file for delivery and to produce a PDF. I guess I could ask, if anyone following this thread is interested. If their files contain ligatures done right from a more current version of Word, that could explain why your copy of Word 2004 doesn't recognize them at all. Indeed, I'm sure this is the reason. The whole-book PDF doesn't show the ligatures issue, but this is to be expected from your suggestions. And only some bits showed it in the .doc import. I am in no way trying to be critical here - in fact this book's ms was of a considerably higher technical standard than many I've worked with. This also highlights an generic issue with publishers: the level of technical guidance for author presentation of manuscripts varies quite a bit, from detailed to almost non-existent. Probably the majority of Word users don't realise the pitfalls that it can generate. But that's a whole other issue, and doesn't belong here, interesting though it is ;-) Thanks. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. Craig -Original Message- From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 8:32 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 16:53 -0600 18/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: /f, isn't it? It may well be, but if so, this isn't implemented in my ancient version (7). I'll be moving to Framemaker 10 sometime this year, but not for the current job. Just have to do it manually [sigh]. Thanks anyway though. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Well, I'm getting an even more peculiar result in FM7.0p579 The search dialog gives me an error saying I need to have text in the search box when I look for \f alone. If I change the search to something like .\f (to search for a period before and end of flow) it finds all periods. Similarly with space. But it ignores the end of flow symbol and so finds periods at the end of every sentence or spaces wherever they occur. Useless! Regarding Word inserting things: It might work to copy one of the offending text sequences and then search and replace with text via FrameMaker replace so you have a known series of characters. There are things MIF wash doesn't seem to deal with. I get table padding from Word that seems to be impossible to remove without creating a new table and then pasting the content into it. Good luck, Craig -Original Message- From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:26 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Are either of you using Rick Quatro's TableCleaner plug-in? At my last employer about a decade ago (my, how time files when you're having fun...) I converted well over 10K pages of legacy Word documentation to FrameMaker and I know I could never have done it without Rick's plug-in. It got rid of all sorts of Word-specific cruft and dealt with the way Frame imported every Word table with the custom ruling and shading flag set so that you wouldn't get the expected results when you applied a Frame table style. And it did it all in a single step. -Fred Ridder From: syed.hos...@aeris.net To: r...@rickquatro.com; srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk; craig...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:51:26 -0800 Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? Rick Quatro said: The FrameMaker Word import filter leaves a line-feed character at the end of each paragraph. You can't see it, but it is there and apparently affects your search. I routinely strip them out in my scripts. A MIF-wash should remove them. I have seen exactly this too. But, as I recall, a MIF-wash did not clear it up for me ... have not checked recently though. If the file was not too large and I had a bit of time for initial cleanup, my usual method was to bring it in as text and re-apply what FrameMaker paragraph and character formats I needed. A slow process (would take me a day or two for around less than 100 page documents), but resulted in cleaner FM files ultimately. Also gave me a chance to read the document and verify what I wanted it to say and look like. :) Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:26 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as docu...@hotmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/docudoc%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 09:13 -0500 20/1/14, Fred Ridder wrote: Are either of you using Rick Quatro's TableCleaner plug-in? Nope. All those wonderful plug-ins will become available to me when I get a box that will run my copy of FrameMaker 10 (trip to local Apple Store to talk to a guru scheduled for March). Authors don't have any contact with FrameMaker, and I'm still using 7 for Mac. (And boy has it earned it's keep!) At my last employer about a decade ago (my, how time files when you're having fun...) I converted well over 10K pages of legacy Word documentation to FrameMaker and I know I could never have done it without Rick's plug-in. It got rid of all sorts of Word-specific cruft and dealt with the way Frame imported every Word table with the custom ruling and shading flag set so that you wouldn't get the expected results when you applied a Frame table style. And it did it all in a single step. I'm sure Rick is happy to read this ;-) Generally - and perhaps fortunately - my source material tends not to be table-heavy. The table that started this thread was one that I created here, as it's a convenient way of handling reference lists. Or would be, if FrameMaker 7 didn't suffer from the bug that strips xref markers when you sort a table. (Has this gone from later versions, I wonder?) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: End-of-flow wildcard?
On 19 Jan 2014 at 9:56, Craig Ede wrote: If I change the search to something like .\f (to search for a period before and end of flow) it finds all periods. Similarly with space. But it ignores the end of flow symbol and so finds periods at the end of every sentence or spaces wherever they occur. Useless! May it help to start the search at the end of the document and then find backwards. You need this technique for example to find those darn superfluous CR: « Importing from Word may leave CR characters (\x0D) and other illegal characters (e.g. \x01) in the file. These restrict an FM search to the paragraph ending with CR. You can find these characters only by searching backwards from the end of the flow. Clean the file by saving as MIF, opening the MIF, saving as FM. » BTW the 'end of flow' character is entered in the find dialogue (no wildcards!) as \f or \x0b . HTH Klaus Daube ~~ Docu + Design Daube; Schäracher 11; CH-8053 Zürich Technical documentation consultancy; On-line and paper F: +41-44-422 86 25 E: d...@daube.ch W: www.daube.ch ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Steve Rickaby said: As an avid use and evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, Same here ... I began using FrameMaker in 1988 on a Sun 3/50 in SunOS. Steve Rickaby said: I think some decisions have been made that Adobe could come to regret. Unfortunately, I agree. Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 16:53 -0600 18/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: /f, isn't it? It may well be, but if so, this isn't implemented in my ancient version (7). I'll be moving to Framemaker 10 sometime this year, but not for the current job. Just have to do it manually [sigh]. Thanks anyway though. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: End-of-flow wildcard?
Steve, Craig I'm using FM10, but \f did locate the end of flow symbol. --Paul Wilbraham Paul Wilbraham Senior Consultant Trainer M-AIS T: 0131 226 5893 M: 07928 797 281 On 19 January 2014 14:32, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.ukwrote: At 16:53 -0600 18/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: /f, isn't it? It may well be, but if so, this isn't implemented in my ancient version (7). I'll be moving to Framemaker 10 sometime this year, but not for the current job. Just have to do it manually [sigh]. Thanks anyway though. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as paul.wilbra...@m-ais.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/paul.wilbraham%40m-ais.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
At 09:56 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote:
Well, I'm getting an even more peculiar result in FM7.0p579
The search dialog gives me an error saying I need to have text in the search
box when I look for \f alone.
How odd. FM7.0p577 for Mac here, and it works just fine. (I didn't know there
was a p579 ;-)
If I change the search to something like .\f (to search for a period before
and end of flow) it finds all periods.
I suppose that's consistent with '\f' not working. Sort of.
Similarly with space. But it ignores the end of flow symbol and so finds
periods at the end of every sentence or spaces wherever they occur. Useless!
Indeed.
Regarding Word inserting things:
It might work to copy one of the offending text sequences and then search
and replace with text via FrameMaker replace so you have a known series of
characters. There are things MIF wash doesn't seem to deal with. I get table
padding from Word that seems to be impossible to remove without creating a
new table and then pasting the content into it.
Ah. Um... [thinks...]
Going to end of flow and typing backspace/delete requires two key presses to
delete the stop, suggesting strongly that there is an invisible something
there. MIFfing the file and looking at it in a text editor (TextWrangler) shows
something like this at the end of a cell:
String `P'
Font
FTag `Emphasis'
FChangeBar No
FLocked No
# end of Font
String `roceedings of PLoP 1996'
Font
FTag `'
FLocked No
# end of Font
String `.'
# end of ParaLine
# end of Para
# end of CellContent
# end of Cell
# end of Row
('PLoP', for the curious, is a conference series, 'Patterns Languages of
Programming')
So it looks like there's a needless font switch in the way. However, a few
cells down, we have this:
Font
FTag `'
FLocked No
# end of Font
String `New York: Oxford University '
# end of ParaLine
ParaLine
String `Press.'
# end of ParaLine
# end of Para
# end of CellContent
# end of Cell
# end of Row
...but FrameMaker can't find the period at the end of 'Press' either! And
again, in the document, two deletes at the end of flow are required to delete
the period.
This substantiates your suggestion that Word crud can even hide in a MIF. A
binary editor might find them, but I don't have one here.
'Go figure', as my US pal likes to write ;-)
--
Steve
___
You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.
Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
The FrameMaker Word import filter leaves a line-feed character at the end of each paragraph. You can't see it, but it is there and apparently affects your search. I routinely strip them out in my scripts. A MIF-wash should remove them. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-366-4017 r...@frameexpert.com -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:26 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
Rick Quatro said: The FrameMaker Word import filter leaves a line-feed character at the end of each paragraph. You can't see it, but it is there and apparently affects your search. I routinely strip them out in my scripts. A MIF-wash should remove them. I have seen exactly this too. But, as I recall, a MIF-wash did not clear it up for me ... have not checked recently though. If the file was not too large and I had a bit of time for initial cleanup, my usual method was to bring it in as text and re-apply what FrameMaker paragraph and character formats I needed. A slow process (would take me a day or two for around less than 100 page documents), but resulted in cleaner FM files ultimately. Also gave me a chance to read the document and verify what I wanted it to say and look like. :) Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:26 AM To: Craig Ede; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: End-of-flow wildcard? At 09:07 -0600 19/1/14, Craig Ede wrote: Hmmm, I know I used it for searches in that version. Let me look into it on my old laptop. For FM 10 it's \f. Wildcards don't have to be on. This is getting more interesting. \f does work in FrameMaker 7, but it only finds some instances of the '.\f' combo I'm trying to find. However - and it's a big 'however' - the source came from Word, and the instances of '.\f' that FrameMaker *is* finding are those I've typed, but not those that came from Word. My guess is that - for the Word-sourced material - what looks like a period/end of flow on screen is something else, and/or has some invisible Word-type-crud after the period but before the end of the flow. And copying them from the document to the Find field doesn't work either: copy/pasting the period alone works, but doesn't work when '\f' is added to the find string. Probably the best way to sort this is to de-table the lot, MIF-wash it and re-table it all again, but it's Sunday... So the bottom line is that '\f' is what I was looking for - the Word crud is my problem. So double thanks ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: End-of-flow wildcard?
/f, isn't it? Craig -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:17 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: End-of-flow wildcard? Anyone know if there is one? My docs don't mention it, only '$', which ain't the same thing at all. I need to find table cell contents that end with a '.' when they shouldn't (in a fairly large reference list). Speaking of ends of flows, I've been reading the correspondence on Adobe's pricing, upgrades and licensing policies with interest. As an avid use and evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, I think some decisions have been made that Adobe could come to regret. Thanks. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as craig...@hotmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/craigede%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
