With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Klaus Daube]

On 23 Nov 2009 at 4:44, Chris Despopoulos wrote:

> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the
> document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document
> file is a slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?) 

Chris,
my books open as expected: the documents are presented with the tabs in 
a row.

But I can imagine that start conditions are critical: I was completely 
confused by the result of clicking on the maximise button (top right) 
of an undocked document.

Klaus Daube 
~~
Docu + Design Daube; Sch?racher 11; CH-8053 Z?rich
Technical documentation & consultancy; On-line and paper
F: +41-44-422 86 25  E: ddd at daube.ch  W: www.daube.ch

With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embracethis FM9 interface

[Peter Gold]

The second icon from the right on the Application Bar is the Arrange
Documents widget; hover the mouse pointer over it to see the tool tip.
Press the down arrow to display the possible arrangements for the
currently-open documents; unavailable arrangements are dimmed. It's a
little misleading, because the widget counts all open documents, but
it doesn't arrange minimized windows.

The single rectangle in the first icon on the left in the widget is
the Consolidate All option; it's also misleading because it omits
minimized windows when it combines open windows into one frame.

The Float All in Windows menu option cascades all open non-minimized documents.


HTH

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices



On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:02 AM, John Sgammato  
wrote:
> I got stuck with that, too. It had a certain Art Deco geometric charm...
> At first I did not like the tabs for each file, so I unchecked
> File>Preferences>Interface>Documents>Open Documents as Tabs
>
> Later, I wanted the tabs back, so I checked it again, but it didn't
> convert the untabbed chapters back to the tabbed UI, I had to do it
> myself.
> I did it by dragging each file to a magic spot where the tabs belong,
> and then dropping it when the magic blue line appeared.
>
> Good luck!
> john
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris
> Despopoulos
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:44 AM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or
> embracethis FM9 interface
>
> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book? ?Don't you get all the
> document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th
> document file is a slit of a page? ?(Or am I suffering hallucinations?)
> Doesn't anybody find that a problem? ?Basically, it seems the new
> windowing paradigm isn't completely under control. ?Are there plans to
> address that? ?And are there plans to expose it in the API?
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or

[Chris Despopoulos]

RE the problem of nested windows when you OPEN ALL in a book...  The answer I 
got is, "Always expand docs to full screen -- use the tabbed interface."  

This is reasonable if you want your doc windows to always be fully expanded.  I 
use Maker documents as generated logs.  I personally don't want the the log 
file to take over the entire screen.  I guess what I have to do is display the 
log in an editable dialog box (logs need copy, at least), and not use 
FrameMaker.  Say goodbye to links into the user's documents.

I also use FrameMaker docs as a GUI for some plug-ins.  It's really a problem 
for me to convert those to dialog boxes...  I use tables, autonumbering, xrefs, 
hypertext, and other things that FrameMaker provides.  In fact, I see no reason 
that a GUI should *not* be built out of FrameMaker documents, effectively the 
same as HTML forms create a Web GUI.  But unless you want the GUI to be the 
entire screen, you can't get away with a Maker doc as a GUI.

RJ, I don't believe the API exposes much (or any?) control over the new windows 
-- for example, can I cause one window to be open at less-than fully expanded 
while others are fully expanded?  I beat my head against this wall during beta, 
and I logged the issue.  But I never heard anything about it.  As I recall, I 
logged other issues with the new windowing paradigm in the API... 

In my spare time (not!) I'm trying to devise workarounds, but you can see that 
they're prohibitive. What would be most excellent would be an API to create a 
pod or other GUI widget that wraps a FrameMaker document.  That's analogous to 
the old Pallette mode for a locked document.  Or analogous to popups in HTML.  
Imagine how rich the GUI could be if it could include FrameMaker documents!  
That's why I use FrameMaker as the GUI for TemplateMapper, for example...  It 
works very well.  I don't want to say goodbye to that capability.


  
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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or

[Chris Despopoulos]

RE the problem of nested windows when you OPEN ALL in a book...  The answer I 
got is, "Always expand docs to full screen -- use the tabbed interface."  

This is reasonable if you want your doc windows to always be fully expanded.  I 
use Maker documents as generated logs.  I personally don't want the the log 
file to take over the entire screen.  I guess what I have to do is display the 
log in an editable dialog box (logs need copy, at least), and not use 
FrameMaker.  Say goodbye to links into the user's documents.

I also use FrameMaker docs as a GUI for some plug-ins.  It's really a problem 
for me to convert those to dialog boxes...  I use tables, autonumbering, xrefs, 
hypertext, and other things that FrameMaker provides.  In fact, I see no reason 
that a GUI should *not* be built out of FrameMaker documents, effectively the 
same as HTML forms create a Web GUI.  But unless you want the GUI to be the 
entire screen, you can't get away with a Maker doc as a GUI.

RJ, I don't believe the API exposes much (or any?) control over the new windows 
-- for example, can I cause one window to be open at less-than fully expanded 
while others are fully expanded?  I beat my head against this wall during beta, 
and I logged the issue.  But I never heard anything about it.  As I recall, I 
logged other issues with the new windowing paradigm in the API... 

In my spare time (not!) I'm trying to devise workarounds, but you can see that 
they're prohibitive. What would be most excellent would be an API to create a 
pod or other GUI widget that wraps a FrameMaker document.  That's analogous to 
the old Pallette mode for a locked document.  Or analogous to popups in HTML.  
Imagine how rich the GUI could be if it could include FrameMaker documents!  
That's why I use FrameMaker as the GUI for TemplateMapper, for example...  It 
works very well.  I don't want to say goodbye to that capability.

Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embracethis FM9 interface

[Peter Gold]

The second icon from the right on the Application Bar is the Arrange
Documents widget; hover the mouse pointer over it to see the tool tip.
Press the down arrow to display the possible arrangements for the
currently-open documents; unavailable arrangements are dimmed. It's a
little misleading, because the widget counts all open documents, but
it doesn't arrange minimized windows.

The single rectangle in the first icon on the left in the widget is
the Consolidate All option; it's also misleading because it omits
minimized windows when it combines open windows into one frame.

The Float All in Windows menu option cascades all open non-minimized documents.


HTH

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices



On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:02 AM, John Sgammato  wrote:
> I got stuck with that, too. It had a certain Art Deco geometric charm...
> At first I did not like the tabs for each file, so I unchecked
> File>Preferences>Interface>Documents>Open Documents as Tabs
>
> Later, I wanted the tabs back, so I checked it again, but it didn't
> convert the untabbed chapters back to the tabbed UI, I had to do it
> myself.
> I did it by dragging each file to a magic spot where the tabs belong,
> and then dropping it when the magic blue line appeared.
>
> Good luck!
> john
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris
> Despopoulos
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:44 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or
> embracethis FM9 interface
>
> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the
> document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th
> document file is a slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)
> Doesn't anybody find that a problem?  Basically, it seems the new
> windowing paradigm isn't completely under control.  Are there plans to
> address that?  And are there plans to expose it in the API?
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Klaus Daube]

On 23 Nov 2009 at 4:44, Chris Despopoulos wrote:

> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the
> document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document
> file is a slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?) 

Chris,
my books open as expected: the documents are presented with the tabs in 
a row.

But I can imagine that start conditions are critical: I was completely 
confused by the result of clicking on the maximise button (top right) 
of an undocked document.

Klaus Daube 
~~
Docu + Design Daube; Schäracher 11; CH-8053 Zürich
Technical documentation & consultancy; On-line and paper
F: +41-44-422 86 25  E: d...@daube.ch  W: www.daube.ch

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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embracethis FM9 interface

[John Sgammato]

I got stuck with that, too. It had a certain Art Deco geometric charm...
At first I did not like the tabs for each file, so I unchecked
File>Preferences>Interface>Documents>Open Documents as Tabs

Later, I wanted the tabs back, so I checked it again, but it didn't
convert the untabbed chapters back to the tabbed UI, I had to do it
myself.
I did it by dragging each file to a magic spot where the tabs belong,
and then dropping it when the magic blue line appeared. 

Good luck!
john


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Despopoulos
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:44 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or
embracethis FM9 interface

Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the
document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th
document file is a slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)
Doesn't anybody find that a problem?  Basically, it seems the new
windowing paradigm isn't completely under control.  Are there plans to
address that?  And are there plans to expose it in the API?



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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Huntley Eshenroder]

It seems to work for me. All of the files open and tabbed across the
top. Are you up-to-date on patches?

-Huntley



On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Chris Despopoulos
 wrote:
> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book? ?Don't you get all the document 
> file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document file is a 
> slit of a page? ?(Or am I suffering hallucinations?) ?Doesn't anybody find 
> that a problem? ?Basically, it seems the new windowing paradigm isn't 
> completely under control. ?Are there plans to address that? ?And are there 
> plans to expose it in the API?

RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embracethis FM9 interface

[John Sgammato]

I got stuck with that, too. It had a certain Art Deco geometric charm...
At first I did not like the tabs for each file, so I unchecked
File>Preferences>Interface>Documents>Open Documents as Tabs

Later, I wanted the tabs back, so I checked it again, but it didn't
convert the untabbed chapters back to the tabbed UI, I had to do it
myself.
I did it by dragging each file to a magic spot where the tabs belong,
and then dropping it when the magic blue line appeared. 

Good luck!
john
 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Despopoulos
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:44 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or
embracethis FM9 interface

Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the
document file windows nested within each other such that the 10th
document file is a slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)
Doesn't anybody find that a problem?  Basically, it seems the new
windowing paradigm isn't completely under control.  Are there plans to
address that?  And are there plans to expose it in the API?


  
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Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Huntley Eshenroder]

It seems to work for me. All of the files open and tabbed across the
top. Are you up-to-date on patches?

-Huntley



On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Chris Despopoulos
 wrote:
> Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the document 
> file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document file is a 
> slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)  Doesn't anybody find 
> that a problem?  Basically, it seems the new windowing paradigm isn't 
> completely under control.  Are there plans to address that?  And are there 
> plans to expose it in the API?
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Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Chris Despopoulos]

Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the document 
file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document file is a 
slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)  Doesn't anybody find that 
a problem?  Basically, it seems the new windowing paradigm isn't completely 
under control.  Are there plans to address that?  And are there plans to expose 
it in the API?


  
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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Chris Despopoulos]

Has *anybody* tried Open All Files in Book?  Don't you get all the document 
file windows nested within each other such that the 10th document file is a 
slit of a page?  (Or am I suffering hallucinations?)  Doesn't anybody find that 
a problem?  Basically, it seems the new windowing paradigm isn't completely 
under control.  Are there plans to address that?  And are there plans to expose 
it in the API?

RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Tammy, love the email subject, and no apologies needed :)

Not really sure why you are seeing inconsistencies, but one thing to remember 
is that regardless of whether the designers are shown/hidded or 
docked/undocked, the keyboard shortcuts always work and this is something I 
continue to use in FM9, namely:

Paragraph Designer = Ctrl+M
Character Designer = Ctrl+D
Table Designer = Ctrl + T

Also, sometimes when I need a bit more real estate, I'll even hide the entire 
UI (click the UI Visibility icon at top) and then use the keyboard shortcuts 
above to just bring up these pods.

Having said that, I'm happy to see that many people continue to feel more 
comfortable with the new FM9 UI as it is our goal at Adobe to standardize all 
of our apps on this same UI model as we move forward.

This includes the upcoming Captivate for Mac, for which I recently posted a 
sneak peek here in case you are interested in seeing: 
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez/2009/11/a_sneak_peek_of_adobe_captivat.html 

Sincerely,

RJ Jácquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite 
Adobe eLearning Suite
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez
Twitter: @rjacquez


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Spectrum Writing
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:39 AM
To: 'Spectrum Writing'; 'Free Framers'; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace 
this FM9 interface

Thanks to all of the onlist and offlist replies. What I found pretty
consistently is the inconsistency with which users out there have had
success. An approach that one user mentioned offlist did not work for
another offlist responder.  The common thread seems to be "I am supposed to
be able to get it to work this way and I can" or "I am supposed to get it to
work this way and I can't."

What Bernard mentioned in his onlist post: " Note that at times you will
apply one (like your own) and then still have to go and reset it as well. If
I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll let people know."

is the major issue for me. I have the catalogs open for paragraph and
character and the panels docked in the order that I want them docked, and
the catalogs just don't want to seem to stay open. I constantly have to
reset my workspace and why this is an issue, I don't know. Two users offlist
indicated that they had no problems with this and two indicated that they
did.

That is why I was referring to the all or nothing issue.  I can keep my
panels docked and iconized and open them when I need to get to the catalogs
or I can keep hoping that my workspace with the open catalogs eventually
decide to hang around.

I DO have dual monitors and they are both widescreen (to deal with all the
"caca" as Kelly stated - LOL!) but it's just more overhead than I like to
deal with, but I know that I don't have a choice.

Thanks all -  these lists are invaluable and they really provide insight and
support.

TGIF!

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com



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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Tammy, love the email subject, and no apologies needed :)

Not really sure why you are seeing inconsistencies, but one thing to remember 
is that regardless of whether the designers are shown/hidded or 
docked/undocked, the keyboard shortcuts always work and this is something I 
continue to use in FM9, namely:

Paragraph Designer = Ctrl+M
Character Designer = Ctrl+D
Table Designer = Ctrl + T

Also, sometimes when I need a bit more real estate, I'll even hide the entire 
UI (click the UI Visibility icon at top) and then use the keyboard shortcuts 
above to just bring up these pods.

Having said that, I'm happy to see that many people continue to feel more 
comfortable with the new FM9 UI as it is our goal at Adobe to standardize all 
of our apps on this same UI model as we move forward.

This includes the upcoming Captivate for Mac, for which I recently posted a 
sneak peek here in case you are interested in seeing: 
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez/2009/11/a_sneak_peek_of_adobe_captivat.html 

Sincerely,

RJ J?cquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite 
Adobe eLearning Suite
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez
Twitter: @rjacquez


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Spectrum Writing
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:39 AM
To: 'Spectrum Writing'; 'Free Framers'; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace 
this FM9 interface

Thanks to all of the onlist and offlist replies. What I found pretty
consistently is the inconsistency with which users out there have had
success. An approach that one user mentioned offlist did not work for
another offlist responder.  The common thread seems to be "I am supposed to
be able to get it to work this way and I can" or "I am supposed to get it to
work this way and I can't."

What Bernard mentioned in his onlist post: " Note that at times you will
apply one (like your own) and then still have to go and reset it as well. If
I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll let people know."

is the major issue for me. I have the catalogs open for paragraph and
character and the panels docked in the order that I want them docked, and
the catalogs just don't want to seem to stay open. I constantly have to
reset my workspace and why this is an issue, I don't know. Two users offlist
indicated that they had no problems with this and two indicated that they
did.

That is why I was referring to the all or nothing issue.  I can keep my
panels docked and iconized and open them when I need to get to the catalogs
or I can keep hoping that my workspace with the open catalogs eventually
decide to hang around.

I DO have dual monitors and they are both widescreen (to deal with all the
"caca" as Kelly stated - LOL!) but it's just more overhead than I like to
deal with, but I know that I don't have a choice.

Thanks all -  these lists are invaluable and they really provide insight and
support.

TGIF!

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
info at spectrumwritingllc.com



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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

Thanks to all of the onlist and offlist replies. What I found pretty
consistently is the inconsistency with which users out there have had
success. An approach that one user mentioned offlist did not work for
another offlist responder.  The common thread seems to be "I am supposed to
be able to get it to work this way and I can" or "I am supposed to get it to
work this way and I can't."

What Bernard mentioned in his onlist post: " Note that at times you will
apply one (like your own) and then still have to go and reset it as well. If
I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll let people know."

is the major issue for me. I have the catalogs open for paragraph and
character and the panels docked in the order that I want them docked, and
the catalogs just don't want to seem to stay open. I constantly have to
reset my workspace and why this is an issue, I don't know. Two users offlist
indicated that they had no problems with this and two indicated that they
did.

That is why I was referring to the all or nothing issue.  I can keep my
panels docked and iconized and open them when I need to get to the catalogs
or I can keep hoping that my workspace with the open catalogs eventually
decide to hang around.

I DO have dual monitors and they are both widescreen (to deal with all the
"caca" as Kelly stated - LOL!) but it's just more overhead than I like to
deal with, but I know that I don't have a choice.

Thanks all -  these lists are invaluable and they really provide insight and
support.

TGIF!

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
info at spectrumwritingllc.com

[Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Jon Harvey]

And don't forget about the 'Reset Workspace' option just in case
things get out of hand.


Jon Harvey
Manager, Desktop Documentation
CambridgeSoft Corporation
100 CambridgePark Drive
Cambridge, MA 02140
(617) 588-9354

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Spectrum Writing
Cc: FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel
the love or embrace this FM9 interface

When you have a file open, on the upper right corner of the screen by
the
min/max/close icons, don't you have a pull-down menu? Probably says
Default?

If you do, just set up your workspace the way you want it, pull down the
menu and select Save Workspace

Art Campbell
 art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers
apply.
  DoD 358


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Spectrum Writing <
info at spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

>  The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up
is
> just mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the
pod has
> to be open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which
is a
> feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it
might
> be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the
paragraph
> designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a
list
> of tags, etc.
>
>
>
> I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that
is
> shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was
just
> inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way
to
> get the "in-between" version - just the lists please.
>
>
>
> Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of
the two
> most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
> Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we
give
> you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?
>
>
>
> Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using
it for
> a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a
handful of
> aspirin!
>
>
>
> TGIF!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Owner/Principal
>
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> info at spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> You are subscribed to the following list: *Free Framers*
>
> using the following email: *art.campbell at gmail.com*
>
> You may automatically unsubscribe from this list at any time by
visiting
> the following URL:
>
>  http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/u/framers/
>
> You may also change your subscription by visiting this list's main
screen:
>
>  http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/list/framers
>
> If you're still having trouble, please contact the list owner at:
>
>  owner-framers at omsys.com
>
> Mailing List Powered by Dada
Mail<http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/what_is_dada_mail/>
>
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[Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Art Campbell]

When you have a file open, on the upper right corner of the screen by the
min/max/close icons, don't you have a pull-down menu? Probably says Default?

If you do, just set up your workspace the way you want it, pull down the
menu and select Save Workspace

Art Campbell
 art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Spectrum Writing <
info at spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

>  The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is
> just mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has
> to be open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
> feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
> be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
> designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
> of tags, etc.
>
>
>
> I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
> shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
> inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
> get the "in-between" version - just the lists please.
>
>
>
> Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
> most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
> Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
> you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?
>
>
>
> Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
> a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
> aspirin!
>
>
>
> TGIF!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Owner/Principal
>
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> info at spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> You are subscribed to the following list: *Free Framers*
>
> using the following email: *art.campbell at gmail.com*
>
> You may automatically unsubscribe from this list at any time by visiting
> the following URL:
>
>  http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/u/framers/
>
> You may also change your subscription by visiting this list's main screen:
>
>  http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/list/framers
>
> If you're still having trouble, please contact the list owner at:
>
>  owner-framers at omsys.com
>
> Mailing List Powered by Dada 
> Mail
>

With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)]

You can take the pods and rip them free from the interface, float and size
them, and then save the settings. There are things that can be done to
improve the interface, but this approach may help.

Basically just set up the interface the way you want it, then go up to the
top right where you see the various names for the predefined configurations.
Click and go to save your own.

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

I do have some free info at http://www.publishingsmarter.com under the
References section that may help. Check the book on DITA and FrameMaker. In
it, the first chapter (and the associated tutorial) has you do some
configuration. Hopefully that helps.

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
President
Publishing Smarter

www.publishingsmarter.com 


-Original Message-
From: Spectrum Writing [mailto:i...@spectrumwritingllc.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:35 AM
To: Free Framers Subscriber
Subject: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the
love or embrace this FM9 interface

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.



I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 



Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?



Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!



TGIF!!!







Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

info at spectrumwritingllc.com



You are subscribed to the following list: Free Framers

using the following email: bernard at publishingsmarter.com

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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[ri...@inficon.com]

I think the new interface is awesome. Much easier to use. Much faster. 
Much more intuitive. I'm not having any of the problems you describe. I 
run dual screens. Now, I can have all my pods, lists, etcetera in the 
right screen, and have the whole book and doc displayed in my center 
screen. I'd hate to go back to the "antiquated" days. FM6 seems cumbersome 
now. True, I'd make a few changes to make dual screens even nicer. But, 
all 'n all, I think Adobe did an outstanding job with the new FM9 
interface.

Richard

RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

Thanks to all of the onlist and offlist replies. What I found pretty
consistently is the inconsistency with which users out there have had
success. An approach that one user mentioned offlist did not work for
another offlist responder.  The common thread seems to be "I am supposed to
be able to get it to work this way and I can" or "I am supposed to get it to
work this way and I can't."

What Bernard mentioned in his onlist post: " Note that at times you will
apply one (like your own) and then still have to go and reset it as well. If
I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll let people know."

is the major issue for me. I have the catalogs open for paragraph and
character and the panels docked in the order that I want them docked, and
the catalogs just don't want to seem to stay open. I constantly have to
reset my workspace and why this is an issue, I don't know. Two users offlist
indicated that they had no problems with this and two indicated that they
did.

That is why I was referring to the all or nothing issue.  I can keep my
panels docked and iconized and open them when I need to get to the catalogs
or I can keep hoping that my workspace with the open catalogs eventually
decide to hang around.

I DO have dual monitors and they are both widescreen (to deal with all the
"caca" as Kelly stated - LOL!) but it's just more overhead than I like to
deal with, but I know that I don't have a choice.

Thanks all -  these lists are invaluable and they really provide insight and
support.

TGIF!

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com



___


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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

Bernard,

Thanks. Your statement: 

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

is right on the money. I get them set and then boom, after a few times, it
all goes away and I start all over with the all or nothing.

I will definitely check out your book and tutorial. I know it will help.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
info at spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)
[mailto:bernard at publishingsmarter.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 7:58 AM
To: 'Spectrum Writing'; framers at lists.frameusers.com; 'Free Framers'
Subject: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace
this FM9 interface

You can take the pods and rip them free from the interface, float and size
them, and then save the settings. There are things that can be done to
improve the interface, but this approach may help.

Basically just set up the interface the way you want it, then go up to the
top right where you see the various names for the predefined configurations.
Click and go to save your own.

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

I do have some free info at http://www.publishingsmarter.com under the
References section that may help. Check the book on DITA and FrameMaker. In
it, the first chapter (and the associated tutorial) has you do some
configuration. Hopefully that helps.

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
President
Publishing Smarter

www.publishingsmarter.com 


-Original Message-
From: Spectrum Writing [mailto:i...@spectrumwritingllc.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:35 AM
To: Free Framers Subscriber
Subject: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the
love or embrace this FM9 interface

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.



I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 



Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?



Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!



TGIF!!!







Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

info at spectrumwritingllc.com



You are subscribed to the following list: Free Framers

using the following email: bernard at publishingsmarter.com

You may automatically unsubscribe from this list at any time by visiting the
following URL:

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<http://www.omsys.com/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/u/framers/> 

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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.



I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 



Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?



Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!



TGIF!!!







Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

info at spectrumwritingllc.com

RE: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

Bernard,

Thanks. Your statement: 

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

is right on the money. I get them set and then boom, after a few times, it
all goes away and I start all over with the all or nothing.

I will definitely check out your book and tutorial. I know it will help.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com


-Original Message-
From: Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)
[mailto:bern...@publishingsmarter.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 7:58 AM
To: 'Spectrum Writing'; framers@lists.frameusers.com; 'Free Framers'
Subject: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace
this FM9 interface

You can take the pods and rip them free from the interface, float and size
them, and then save the settings. There are things that can be done to
improve the interface, but this approach may help.

Basically just set up the interface the way you want it, then go up to the
top right where you see the various names for the predefined configurations.
Click and go to save your own.

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

I do have some free info at http://www.publishingsmarter.com under the
References section that may help. Check the book on DITA and FrameMaker. In
it, the first chapter (and the associated tutorial) has you do some
configuration. Hopefully that helps.

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
President
Publishing Smarter

www.publishingsmarter.com 


-Original Message-
From: Spectrum Writing [mailto:i...@spectrumwritingllc.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:35 AM
To: Free Framers Subscriber
Subject: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the
love or embrace this FM9 interface

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.

 

I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 

 

Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?

 

Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!

 

TGIF!!!

 

 

 

Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

i...@spectrumwritingllc.com

 

You are subscribed to the following list: Free Framers

using the following email: bern...@publishingsmarter.com

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RE: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Jon Harvey]

And don't forget about the 'Reset Workspace' option just in case
things get out of hand.

 
Jon Harvey
Manager, Desktop Documentation
CambridgeSoft Corporation
100 CambridgePark Drive
Cambridge, MA 02140
(617) 588-9354

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Spectrum Writing
Cc: FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel
the love or embrace this FM9 interface

When you have a file open, on the upper right corner of the screen by
the
min/max/close icons, don't you have a pull-down menu? Probably says
Default?

If you do, just set up your workspace the way you want it, pull down the
menu and select Save Workspace

Art Campbell
 art.campb...@gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers
apply.
  DoD 358


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Spectrum Writing <
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

>  The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up
is
> just mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the
pod has
> to be open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which
is a
> feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it
might
> be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the
paragraph
> designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a
list
> of tags, etc.
>
>
>
> I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that
is
> shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was
just
> inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way
to
> get the "in-between" version - just the lists please.
>
>
>
> Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of
the two
> most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
> Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we
give
> you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?
>
>
>
> Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using
it for
> a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a
handful of
> aspirin!
>
>
>
> TGIF!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
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>
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
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Re: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Art Campbell]

When you have a file open, on the upper right corner of the screen by the
min/max/close icons, don't you have a pull-down menu? Probably says Default?

If you do, just set up your workspace the way you want it, pull down the
menu and select Save Workspace

Art Campbell
 art.campb...@gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Spectrum Writing <
i...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

>  The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is
> just mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has
> to be open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
> feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
> be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
> designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
> of tags, etc.
>
>
>
> I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
> shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
> inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
> get the "in-between" version - just the lists please.
>
>
>
> Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
> most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
> Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
> you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?
>
>
>
> Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
> a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
> aspirin!
>
>
>
> TGIF!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Owner/Principal
>
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> i...@spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> You are subscribed to the following list: *Free Framers*
>
> using the following email: *art.campb...@gmail.com*
>
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> the following URL:
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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)]

You can take the pods and rip them free from the interface, float and size
them, and then save the settings. There are things that can be done to
improve the interface, but this approach may help.

Basically just set up the interface the way you want it, then go up to the
top right where you see the various names for the predefined configurations.
Click and go to save your own.

Note that at times you will apply one (like your own) and then still have to
go and reset it as well. If I figure out the logic behind when and why I'll
let people know.

I do have some free info at http://www.publishingsmarter.com under the
References section that may help. Check the book on DITA and FrameMaker. In
it, the first chapter (and the associated tutorial) has you do some
configuration. Hopefully that helps.

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
President
Publishing Smarter

www.publishingsmarter.com 


-Original Message-
From: Spectrum Writing [mailto:i...@spectrumwritingllc.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:35 AM
To: Free Framers Subscriber
Subject: [Free Framers] With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the
love or embrace this FM9 interface

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.

 

I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 

 

Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?

 

Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!

 

TGIF!!!

 

 

 

Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

i...@spectrumwritingllc.com

 

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Re: With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[rinch]

I think the new interface is awesome. Much easier to use. Much faster. 
Much more intuitive. I'm not having any of the problems you describe. I 
run dual screens. Now, I can have all my pods, lists, etcetera in the 
right screen, and have the whole book and doc displayed in my center 
screen. I'd hate to go back to the "antiquated" days. FM6 seems cumbersome 
now. True, I'd make a few changes to make dual screens even nicer. But, 
all 'n all, I think Adobe did an outstanding job with the new FM9 
interface.

Richard
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With Apologies to RJ - just can't quite feel the love or embrace this FM9 interface

[Spectrum Writing]

The horrendous amount of real estate that these blasted pods take up is just
mind-boggling and it appears to be all or nothing.  Either the pod has to be
open all the way or you can "iconize" the view, neither of which is a
feasible solution. The interface I would like, as "antiquated" as it might
be is one that mimics ghosts of FM past - you know, having the paragraph
designer open as a list of the tags, the character designer open as a list
of tags, etc.

 

I have watched RJ's video on customizing the workspace, and all that is
shown is the "completely open" or "iconized" version. Unless it was just
inadvertently left out of the presentation, there appears to be no way to
get the "in-between" version - just the lists please. 

 

Has anyone figured out a way to get this "in-between" appearance of the two
most basic pods - paragraph and character designer or am I stuck with
Adobe's almost eerily "we are like Microsoft approach" - that is, we give
you what we think is best and too bad if it isn't?

 

Sorry RJ - just can't quite embrace this new interface - after using it for
a few days now, I would rather be embracing a stiff drink and a handful of
aspirin!

 

TGIF!!!

 

 

 

Tammy Van Boening

Owner/Principal

Spectrum Writing, LLC

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

i...@spectrumwritingllc.com

 

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