Re: [freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
kabutor wrote: > >A lightining would be really cool, but I have not idea yet, how to > >accomplish > >that with Ogre. Let's do the necessary parts first. > > > Turn Light on and off? :-D But Amen to the "Let's do the necessary parts > first" That's a nice idea, at least the scene should be become darker during a storm. But originally I was thinking about a real lightning with an electrical zig-zag effect, but I don't know enough about Ogre's particle system to know whether that's feasible. BTW: Have a look at the Worldforge subversion repository. They have lots of GPLed textures, sounds, images, music and models there. Really nice. Moritz
Re: [freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Ill see it, the drops could be smaller, its really tricky to do nice particle effects, I try several to no avail.. :( Making them smaller is pretty easy, it's just trimming the texture to be smaller. But the current rather largish drops make it look more like really thick rain. Well Its just testing & tuning ... A lightining would be really cool, but I have not idea yet, how to accomplish that with Ogre. Let's do the necessary parts first. Turn Light on and off? :-D But Amen to the "Let's do the necessary parts first" Ah, ok, I already use it, its nice, there is a paginglandscape in ogreaddons that is a terrain manager but in that you can make a map tiled, but I tried to compile it and it always segfault, dont know what Im doing wrong What did segfault? The Ogre plugin or your test code? Well my brain segfault when I wrote this email, because the problem is not that the plugin segfault is that it gives me some errors while compiling.. so I didnt test any code. :-/
Re: [freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
kabutor wrote: > >Ah, ok. I've been working on integrating a rain particle effect for the > >ingame storm events, for which I recreated the raindrop texture under > >the GPL. Will commit it later on. > > Ill see it, the drops could be smaller, its really tricky to do nice > particle effects, I try several to no avail.. :( Making them smaller is pretty easy, it's just trimming the texture to be smaller. But the current rather largish drops make it look more like really thick rain. A lightining would be really cool, but I have not idea yet, how to accomplish that with Ogre. Let's do the necessary parts first. > >TerrainSceneManager is a plugin, the standard one, which is similar is a > >SceneManager with the EXT_FAR specialization. > > > Ah, ok, I already use it, its nice, there is a paginglandscape in > ogreaddons that is a terrain manager but in that you can make a map > tiled, but I tried to compile it and it always segfault, dont know what > Im doing wrong What did segfault? The Ogre plugin or your test code? BTW; there will be Debian packages for Ogre soon, so for 0.3 we'll have fully working Freebooters-debs again. Cheers, Moritz
Re: [freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Ah, ok. I've been working on integrating a rain particle effect for the ingame storm events, for which I recreated the raindrop texture under the GPL. Will commit it later on. Ill see it, the drops could be smaller, its really tricky to do nice particle effects, I try several to no avail.. :( We should use the TerrainSceneManager, which is really neat. But as it is an Ogre plugin we'll need some more build system foo here. Why? If you use Ogre, you can use the dafault TerrainSceneManager isnt it? TerrainSceneManager is a plugin, the standard one, which is similar is a SceneManager with the EXT_FAR specialization. Ah, ok, I already use it, its nice, there is a paginglandscape in ogreaddons that is a terrain manager but in that you can make a map tiled, but I tried to compile it and it always segfault, dont know what Im doing wrong Yep its relative to Samples dir in Ogre, sorry about that.. indeed just only need to add the include to ExampleApliccation.h while compiling, I try to polish that and add to current framework. Looking forward to it. Well Its gona take longer, Im having problems removing the ExampleFrameListener class, If I left it, the app complies about missing overlay materials, I tried to remove the bloody overlay but I remove too much things or something but then it didnt build... Whatever, is going to take more time, for today Im frustrated of trying.
Re: [freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
kabutor wrote: > >Is there a GPL compatible license on the particle effects? Most images > >from the samples are not freely distributable, but I guess these are > >not tainted. > > Well, the images are not that complex, for smoke & fire is just one > smoke.png needed. Ah, ok. I've been working on integrating a rain particle effect for the ingame storm events, for which I recreated the raindrop texture under the GPL. Will commit it later on. > >We should use the TerrainSceneManager, which is really neat. But as it > >is an Ogre plugin we'll need some more build system foo here. > > > Why? If you use Ogre, you can use the dafault TerrainSceneManager isnt it? TerrainSceneManager is a plugin, the standard one, which is similar is a SceneManager with the EXT_FAR specialization. > Yep its relative to Samples dir in Ogre, sorry about that.. indeed just > only need to add the include to ExampleApliccation.h while compiling, I > try to polish that and add to current framework. Looking forward to it. Cheers, Moritz
Re: [Freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Well, I try to understand that, but dont really have it :) , my idea for the sails, is that only the "broom" sail must control the speed of The question if whether we want to handle the steering of all ships similarly or if we want to mimic how they're controlled in reality. I'm not sure yet. Well, I think that turning that square sails more than that 20-30º is going to make the ships crash one into each other.. About that "steering" the translation to spanish is a bit ambiguous :D but I suppose that is the ancient dilema of simulation vs arcade ;) I say, lets do it to be fun, I dont see any fun in moving in a very big map so maybe we need to add some simulation.. not sure.. lets see later. :-D I agree that the helm is not needed. It's probably not even visible most of the time. In the inter island What you mean with helm? r:-/ Hard to explain, but in Spanish it's a "tímon". Does this clear things up? Yep, the timon is really small to be visible at this ship size. Well, I test some particle effects already in Ogre, and the fire-smoke sample is really fine, you can tune it to be smaller, and with a lower poly count and it looks like fire with smoke and so. Is there a GPL compatible license on the particle effects? Most images from the samples are not freely distributable, but I guess these are not tainted. Well, the images are not that complex, for smoke & fire is just one smoke.png needed. We should use the TerrainSceneManager, which is really neat. But as it is an Ogre plugin we'll need some more build system foo here. Why? If you use Ogre, you can use the dafault TerrainSceneManager isnt it? I see that the CVS as updated so Im going to test it, did you manage to see the code I send you yesterday? I tried it a few minutes ago, but couldn't built it. I'll check tomorrow, when I'm more awake. What kind of Makefile are you using or does it need to be built relative to the Ogre samples directory? Could you make further work against the current 3D framework in CVS? Yep its relative to Samples dir in Ogre, sorry about that.. indeed just only need to add the include to ExampleApliccation.h while compiling, I try to polish that and add to current framework.
Re: [Freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
kabutor wrote: > Well, I try to understand that, but dont really have it :) , my idea > for the sails, is that only the "broom" sail must control the speed of > the ship, even in the big ships, the other ones, the rectangular ones > shall only move a little (30º-20º each side at most) but just in a > cosmetic way, made more broom sails in between the mastils and that > should do the trick. The question if whether we want to handle the steering of all ships similarly or if we want to mimic how they're controlled in reality. I'm not sure yet. > >>I agree that the helm is not needed. > >> > >It's probably not even visible most of the time. In the inter island > > > What you mean with helm? r:-/ Hard to explain, but in Spanish it's a "tímon". Does this clear things up? > Well, I test some particle effects already in Ogre, and the fire-smoke > sample is really fine, you can tune it to be smaller, and with a lower > poly count and it looks like fire with smoke and so. Is there a GPL compatible license on the particle effects? Most images from the samples are not freely distributable, but I guess these are not tainted. > I was trying to do some particle effect in the ship that was two lines > like this (imagination required here) > > /^\ > > Being: > ^ -> Ship the two lines / and \ just mark the movement of the ship and > it looks easy to do, but didnt manage to look fine. :( Umm, I fear that I lack proper imagination... :-) > I build it the other day, it wasnt really complex to build that provided > you have the .cfg files and the materials required, With current CVS there are no more external depencies besides the Ogre lib itself. It has a Makefile and can be build with "make -f Makefile.3d". We should use the TerrainSceneManager, which is really neat. But as it is an Ogre plugin we'll need some more build system foo here. > but just only see a > ship moving fast as hell out of the screen :) Should be fixed now. > I see that the CVS as updated so Im going to test it, did you manage to > see the code I send you yesterday? I tried it a few minutes ago, but couldn't built it. I'll check tomorrow, when I'm more awake. What kind of Makefile are you using or does it need to be built relative to the Ogre samples directory? Could you make further work against the current 3D framework in CVS? > I made some improvements to that > code, added the broom movement, and the wind angle test vs broomangle to > check speed, just for testing, I try to start checking cannon fire and > collision, you will see a cannonball.mesh soon in CVS ;) Cool. > I try to split the models next week, and setup them in CVS, but Im > concerned that Im going to have to redo them later again, because we > didnt have a clear idea of what we need. Let's fix a spec in this thread and stick for that at least until 0.4. Should be doable. > Ah! Just before I forget, I redone the wind arrow, but I think is way > too small for what you need right? Yes, it would be nice if it were bigger, but it's not much of a problem as it can be scaled in the SceneNode. Cheers, Moritz
Re: [Freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Movement in the ship is controlled through the helm which controls the direction of the ship and how far the sail should be able to expand. Depending on the side the wind is coming from the broom switches over to either side. This should have a graphical representation through the boom position. This is good. But, do any ships have only square sails? Then the sails wouldn't switch but would have to move some other way. Maybe it would adjust the number of sails? Do you mean the following: While for smaller ships they broom controls the ship like this: / <> for larger ships like the frigate it's more like <--(--(--(-> < ( ( (> <--(--(--(-> The ( shall represent sails. AFAIK these larger ships have some sails like the main sail and jib that simply boost the ship's speed and some that are used to control the direction. In this case the speed levels of the ship could be represented be setting more sails, that sounds like a good idea. Well, I try to understand that, but dont really have it :) , my idea for the sails, is that only the "broom" sail must control the speed of the ship, even in the big ships, the other ones, the rectangular ones shall only move a little (30º-20º each side at most) but just in a cosmetic way, made more broom sails in between the mastils and that should do the trick. I agree that the helm is not needed. It's probably not even visible most of the time. In the inter island What you mean with helm? r:-/ We could represent damage by removing mastils from larger ships. I would suggest that damage be represented by drawing holes on the sails by having a series of sail textures. Also, the ship could sail slower and lower in the water. About sailing slower, the problem is that maybe it looks really unrealistic, the sea level could reach the cannon hatchets so it looks "strange" but its just a question of testing that later, if we have sail removal for severa damage and black spots in hull textures and transparent textures in sails should look more than enough. Sounds good as well. Lowering the ships is very easy. There are some fancy particle effects for smoke in Ogre, I think Kabutor even started to make one, or am I mistaken here? Well, I test some particle effects already in Ogre, and the fire-smoke sample is really fine, you can tune it to be smaller, and with a lower poly count and it looks like fire with smoke and so. Particle effects are really nice visual additions for the game, you render on a surface (billboard) a 2D image that is always looking to the camera (unless stated otherwise) and you can alter that in several ways, I was trying to do some particle effect in the ship that was two lines like this (imagination required here) /^\ Being: ^ -> Ship the two lines / and \ just mark the movement of the ship and it looks easy to do, but didnt manage to look fine. :( But particle for fire and smoke is piece of cake, not for explosions yet, not tested.. . :) I am going to check out the 3d code tonight or tommorow and try it out. I'll make it self contained in the repo to make it easier to build, hopefully this night. I build it the other day, it wasnt really complex to build that provided you have the .cfg files and the materials required, but just only see a ship moving fast as hell out of the screen :) I see that the CVS as updated so Im going to test it, did you manage to see the code I send you yesterday? I made some improvements to that code, added the broom movement, and the wind angle test vs broomangle to check speed, just for testing, I try to start checking cannon fire and collision, you will see a cannonball.mesh soon in CVS ;) I try to split the models next week, and setup them in CVS, but Im concerned that Im going to have to redo them later again, because we didnt have a clear idea of what we need. For example the cutter-split model is bad done, Ive been testing with it the sailing, and if you turn the broom, the center of rotation is misplaced, as the front sails center of rotation are misplaced as well, easy to fix, but if I already had done all the models, I will have to go again through all of them, and Im a lazy boy :-D Ah! Just before I forget, I redone the wind arrow, but I think is way too small for what you need right?
Re: [Freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Paul Damer wrote: > >Movement in the ship is controlled through the helm which controls > >the direction of the ship and how far the sail should be able to > >expand. Depending on the side the wind is coming from the broom > >switches over to either side. This should have a graphical > >representation through the boom position. > > > > > This is good. But, do any ships have only square sails? Then the sails > wouldn't switch but would have to move some other way. Maybe it would > adjust the number of sails? Do you mean the following: While for smaller ships they broom controls the ship like this: / <> for larger ships like the frigate it's more like <--(--(--(-> < ( ( (> <--(--(--(-> The ( shall represent sails. AFAIK these larger ships have some sails like the main sail and jib that simply boost the ship's speed and some that are used to control the direction. In this case the speed levels of the ship could be represented be setting more sails, that sounds like a good idea. > I agree that the helm is not needed. It's probably not even visible most of the time. In the inter island travel it's too small and in battles you should have other things to worry about. :-) > >We could represent damage by removing mastils from larger ships. > >In that case the mastils should be independant scenes nodes by > >themselves. > > > I would suggest that damage be represented by drawing holes on the sails > by having a series of sail textures. Also, the ship could sail slower > and lower in the water. Sounds good as well. Lowering the ships is very easy. There are some fancy particle effects for smoke in Ogre, I think Kabutor even started to make one, or am I mistaken here? > I am going to check out the 3d code tonight or tommorow and try it out. I'll make it self contained in the repo to make it easier to build, hopefully this night. Cheers, Moritz
Re: [Freebooters-devel] Proposal for ship model specs
Moritz Muehlenhoff wrote: Some specs/ideas for some structure for the 3D ship models: Every ship, no matter which size is has, should have a top flag. Definitly Movement in the ship is controlled through the helm which controls the direction of the ship and how far the sail should be able to expand. Depending on the side the wind is coming from the broom switches over to either side. This should have a graphical representation through the boom position. This is good. But, do any ships have only square sails? Then the sails wouldn't switch but would have to move some other way. Maybe it would adjust the number of sails? So, what shall we do with ships that have more than one sail? I guess it would be overly complicated to control them independently, therefore I'd suggest to keep them all in sync, no matter how many there are. Yes This would leave as with ships with the following subelements / scene nodes: 1. Ship body with one to three mastils 2. The helm at the hull of the ship which represents the players directional maneuvers (I guess we could even let that away) 3. One to three brooms with sails attached 4. The flag I agree that the helm is not needed. We could represent damage by removing mastils from larger ships. In that case the mastils should be independant scenes nodes by themselves. I would suggest that damage be represented by drawing holes on the sails by having a series of sail textures. Also, the ship could sail slower and lower in the water. I am going to check out the 3d code tonight or tommorow and try it out. -Paul Damer
