Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: Hi All Thanks again for all the replies. How is the support for A15 and how is Qualcomm to work with when it comes to porting? Thinking about this guy which is closer to what I want spec-wise.. http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a15-krait/var-som-sd600-cpu-qualcomm-snapdragon600 I think IFC6410 has same SoC as above SoM and as for ifc6410 either mmc/sd or usb ehci driver needed in order to boot FreeBSD into multi user mode. Ganbold -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:36:00PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. If you use a prebuild module then you don't get much in touch with the freescale chip fropm the hardware side. On the other hand, there are countless iMX6 boards out there with schematics online. My recently bought Novena even came with printed schematics and they open sourced the HW design files as well. I don't think there are hidden surprises on the hardware side. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Sounds interesting for my Novena. The one I already got are board only (with some FPGA breakout, ...). They have HDMI though. But I'm also awaiting for the one with case and LCD panel. Not to forget that I have a fairy EDM carrier with LCD already. That said I'v always wondered how much work is it to get the camera interface running, since the Hummingboards can connect to the RPi camera modules. Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
Hi All Thanks again for all the replies. How is the support for A15 and how is Qualcomm to work with when it comes to porting? Thinking about this guy which is closer to what I want spec-wise.. http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a15-krait/var-som-sd600-cpu-qualcomm-snapdragon600 -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:36:00PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. If you use a prebuild module then you don't get much in touch with the freescale chip fropm the hardware side. On the other hand, there are countless iMX6 boards out there with schematics online. My recently bought Novena even came with printed schematics and they open sourced the HW design files as well. I don't think there are hidden surprises on the hardware side. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Sounds interesting for my Novena. The one I already got are board only (with some FPGA breakout, ...). They have HDMI though. But I'm also awaiting for the one with case and LCD panel. Not to forget that I have a fairy EDM carrier with LCD already. That said I'v always wondered how much work is it to get the camera interface running, since the Hummingboards can connect to the RPi camera modules. Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
What I'm most worried about is the graphics stack.. Some companies don't seem so keen on handing out specs. On Thursday, January 29, 2015, Ganbold Tsagaankhuu ganb...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp'); wrote: Hi All Thanks again for all the replies. How is the support for A15 and how is Qualcomm to work with when it comes to porting? Thinking about this guy which is closer to what I want spec-wise.. http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a15-krait/var-som-sd600-cpu-qualcomm-snapdragon600 I think IFC6410 has same SoC as above SoM and as for ifc6410 either mmc/sd or usb ehci driver needed in order to boot FreeBSD into multi user mode. Ganbold -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ti...@cicely7.cicely.de'); wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:36:00PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. If you use a prebuild module then you don't get much in touch with the freescale chip fropm the hardware side. On the other hand, there are countless iMX6 boards out there with schematics online. My recently bought Novena even came with printed schematics and they open sourced the HW design files as well. I don't think there are hidden surprises on the hardware side. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Sounds interesting for my Novena. The one I already got are board only (with some FPGA breakout, ...). They have HDMI though. But I'm also awaiting for the one with case and LCD panel. Not to forget that I have a fairy EDM carrier with LCD already. That said I'v always wondered how much work is it to get the camera interface running, since the Hummingboards can connect to the RPi camera modules. Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','be...@bwct.de'); http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','freebsd-current@freebsd.org'); mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org'); -- -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 18:27:08 +0900 Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: What I'm most worried about is the graphics stack.. Some companies don't seem so keen on handing out specs. The only ARM vendor I know that has released documentation on their 3D hardware is Broadcom [1]. The only options for this are the Raspberry Pi or one of the mobile phones with a Broadcom CPU. I neither option to be applicable for your requirements. Andrew [1] http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/VideoCoreIV-AG100-R.pdf ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: What I'm most worried about is the graphics stack.. Some companies don't seem so keen on handing out specs. I think you can check some open source implementations for those GPU related things (only for linux maybe): For Vivante: https://github.com/laanwj/etna_viv/wiki For Adreno: http://freedreno.github.io For Mali: http://limadriver.org I guess they are mostly based on reverse engineering effort. I think you can even ask about the statuses directly from the authors/maintainers on some irc channel. Not sure about Tegra or PowerVR. Ganbold On Thursday, January 29, 2015, Ganbold Tsagaankhuu ganb...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: Hi All Thanks again for all the replies. How is the support for A15 and how is Qualcomm to work with when it comes to porting? Thinking about this guy which is closer to what I want spec-wise.. http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a15-krait/var-som-sd600-cpu-qualcomm-snapdragon600 I think IFC6410 has same SoC as above SoM and as for ifc6410 either mmc/sd or usb ehci driver needed in order to boot FreeBSD into multi user mode. Ganbold -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:36:00PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. If you use a prebuild module then you don't get much in touch with the freescale chip fropm the hardware side. On the other hand, there are countless iMX6 boards out there with schematics online. My recently bought Novena even came with printed schematics and they open sourced the HW design files as well. I don't think there are hidden surprises on the hardware side. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Sounds interesting for my Novena. The one I already got are board only (with some FPGA breakout, ...). They have HDMI though. But I'm also awaiting for the one with case and LCD panel. Not to forget that I have a fairy EDM carrier with LCD already. That said I'v always wondered how much work is it to get the camera interface running, since the Hummingboards can connect to the RPi camera modules. Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:39:30AM +, Andrew Turner wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 18:27:08 +0900 Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: What I'm most worried about is the graphics stack.. Some companies don't seem so keen on handing out specs. The only ARM vendor I know that has released documentation on their 3D hardware is Broadcom [1]. The only options for this are the Raspberry Pi or one of the mobile phones with a Broadcom CPU. I neither option to be applicable for your requirements. On the other hand people still struggle when it comes to CPI on RPi, because it is handled by the GPU. I'm still not so sure about this Broadcom SoC. This is the reason why I like that the RPi Camera header is also used on the Hummingboard and the BanannaPi. The Hummingboard is an iMX6. The BanannaPi unfortunately is an Allwinner and their datasheets are AFAIK chinese only and IIRC also under NDA. The Novena crown funding included iMX6 2D/3D driver development for Linux as a met stretch goal: https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop/stretch-goals https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop I don't know how much of the results will be useable for us, but at least some people seem to have access to enough documentation. Andrew [1] http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/VideoCoreIV-AG100-R.pdf -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
How about GPU 2D 3D support for Vivante GC2000? There seem to be some open source driver out there but its GPL GPU acceleration for 2D and 3D is a must for us and if it is only a matter of a few programmers time and effort we can invest in it. Can there be any blocking things like proprietary software/hardware etc? -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
System-On-Module
Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. I wish to minimize the amount of porting needed so I am very grateful if someone has good insights in this area. And of course, it would help a lot if it was a manufacturer who is willing to provide datasheets to make porting possible.. Thanks! -- Johannes Lundberg -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:27:31PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2015-01-28 at 19:32 +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 06:52:52PM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. In that range I would go for a Wandboard. They are 1, 2 or 4 core iMX6 32bit with 512M, 1G or 2G RAM. The 4 core has SATA, which to my knowledge we don't support yet. They come with 2 useable SD-card slots - one on the module and one on a carrier board. Clock rate is 1GHz only IIRC and they only have high speed USB, although the newest carrier boards have some super speed wiring for future modules. TechNexion, the originator of that module system also has some x86 boards - some may fit your requirements, but those are at a higher price and bigger form factor. Tech Nexion also has iMX6 boards similar to the wandboard with different featuresets, but also at a higher price. You do get more for that higher price with the Technexion EDM modules, namely 1.2ghz chips instead of 1.0, and parts that are industrial and/or automotive temperature-rated rather than consumer grade. On the other hand, you generally can't buy Technexion modules one at a time. Last time I checked they were minimum order 10 pieces even from resellers like Mouser and Digikey. Temperature rating - that can easily justify the higher price. Another small-board imx6 possibility is the Hummingboard from SolidRun. I now have freebsd running on a SolidRun Cubox-i4, so I expect no large drama in getting it working on other SolidRun imx6 products. Gonzo ordered a Hummingboard recently, so we should know for sure some time soon. To my knowledge they come in 3 different sizes. I own the biggest two versions of them. Completely forgot that the Hummingboard uses modules as well and the modules are even very small. -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
Thanks a lot guys. I can specify a bit more details. We don't need any sd-card, sata or external storage. Just the internal eMMC is enough. Display output can be DSI, LVDS or something that can easily be serialized to transfer over 2 wires. If WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0 is on the board that'll also be great. And of course, it would be helpful if the said board also is available as development kit... If the first tests are ok (tests can be done using Linux if FreeBSD doesn't run out of the box) we're looking to buy a larger amount, at least 1000 to start with. We are flexible about prize and size of the board. Atom is preferable over imx6, but I'll check out what you recommended. Thanks again! Ps. Hopefully we can also provide development boards for anyone who wants to help with porting out of own interest. -- Johannes Lundberg On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:14 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:27:31PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2015-01-28 at 19:32 +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 06:52:52PM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. In that range I would go for a Wandboard. They are 1, 2 or 4 core iMX6 32bit with 512M, 1G or 2G RAM. The 4 core has SATA, which to my knowledge we don't support yet. They come with 2 useable SD-card slots - one on the module and one on a carrier board. Clock rate is 1GHz only IIRC and they only have high speed USB, although the newest carrier boards have some super speed wiring for future modules. TechNexion, the originator of that module system also has some x86 boards - some may fit your requirements, but those are at a higher price and bigger form factor. Tech Nexion also has iMX6 boards similar to the wandboard with different featuresets, but also at a higher price. You do get more for that higher price with the Technexion EDM modules, namely 1.2ghz chips instead of 1.0, and parts that are industrial and/or automotive temperature-rated rather than consumer grade. On the other hand, you generally can't buy Technexion modules one at a time. Last time I checked they were minimum order 10 pieces even from resellers like Mouser and Digikey. Temperature rating - that can easily justify the higher price. Another small-board imx6 possibility is the Hummingboard from SolidRun. I now have freebsd running on a SolidRun Cubox-i4, so I expect no large drama in getting it working on other SolidRun imx6 products. Gonzo ordered a Hummingboard recently, so we should know for sure some time soon. To my knowledge they come in 3 different sizes. I own the biggest two versions of them. Completely forgot that the Hummingboard uses modules as well and the modules are even very small. -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
By the way, this is for an embedded mobile device so we are looking for something more like http://www.kontron.com/products/computeronmodules/smarc/smarc-samx6i.html instead of Wandboard which has all the connectors that we won't use. -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: Thanks a lot guys. I can specify a bit more details. We don't need any sd-card, sata or external storage. Just the internal eMMC is enough. Display output can be DSI, LVDS or something that can easily be serialized to transfer over 2 wires. If WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0 is on the board that'll also be great. And of course, it would be helpful if the said board also is available as development kit... If the first tests are ok (tests can be done using Linux if FreeBSD doesn't run out of the box) we're looking to buy a larger amount, at least 1000 to start with. We are flexible about prize and size of the board. Atom is preferable over imx6, but I'll check out what you recommended. Thanks again! Ps. Hopefully we can also provide development boards for anyone who wants to help with porting out of own interest. -- Johannes Lundberg On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:14 AM, Bernd Walter ti...@cicely7.cicely.de wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:27:31PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2015-01-28 at 19:32 +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 06:52:52PM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. In that range I would go for a Wandboard. They are 1, 2 or 4 core iMX6 32bit with 512M, 1G or 2G RAM. The 4 core has SATA, which to my knowledge we don't support yet. They come with 2 useable SD-card slots - one on the module and one on a carrier board. Clock rate is 1GHz only IIRC and they only have high speed USB, although the newest carrier boards have some super speed wiring for future modules. TechNexion, the originator of that module system also has some x86 boards - some may fit your requirements, but those are at a higher price and bigger form factor. Tech Nexion also has iMX6 boards similar to the wandboard with different featuresets, but also at a higher price. You do get more for that higher price with the Technexion EDM modules, namely 1.2ghz chips instead of 1.0, and parts that are industrial and/or automotive temperature-rated rather than consumer grade. On the other hand, you generally can't buy Technexion modules one at a time. Last time I checked they were minimum order 10 pieces even from resellers like Mouser and Digikey. Temperature rating - that can easily justify the higher price. Another small-board imx6 possibility is the Hummingboard from SolidRun. I now have freebsd running on a SolidRun Cubox-i4, so I expect no large drama in getting it working on other SolidRun imx6 products. Gonzo ordered a Hummingboard recently, so we should know for sure some time soon. To my knowledge they come in 3 different sizes. I own the biggest two versions of them. Completely forgot that the Hummingboard uses modules as well and the modules are even very small. -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 08:28:58AM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: By the way, this is for an embedded mobile device so we are looking for something more like http://www.kontron.com/products/computeronmodules/smarc/smarc-samx6i.html instead of Wandboard which has all the connectors that we won't use. Don't get confused with the wandboard module+carrier board, which is the normal offer (and in small volumes often cheaper than the 10x module pack). The Wandboard module alone is extremly similar to the Kontron modules in your link. They don't have eMMC (maybe some of the TechNexion have), but they do have a micro-SD on the module itself, plus SDIO on the module header. eMMC can have a higher transport speed because it allows for 8bit instead of 4bit and as soldered chip it has different issued than a socketed card, but otherwise they are very similar in design. The 2 and 4 core Wandboards have BT/WLAN on module, but it is done by SDIO, for which FreeBSD (to my knowledge) has no support yet. -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 08:28 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: By the way, this is for an embedded mobile device so we are looking for something more like http://www.kontron.com/products/computeronmodules/smarc/smarc-samx6i.html instead of Wandboard which has all the connectors that we won't use. That's similar to the EDM module that wandboards use: http://www.technexion.com/products/edm/edm-som/edm1-cf-imx6 You can buy the EDM modules directly from Technexion if you're willing to buy quantity, or through resellers like Digikey. The EDM modules from technexion are compatible with the wandboard carrier boards, so you can use a few cheap wandboards as devel and eval boards (or you can buy the overpriced fairyboard carrier from technexion that has PCIe connectors that wandboard lacks). We're using these modules at $work, and that's basically the path I took... I started with a wandboard and got freebsd running on it, and once it got past the proof of concept stage (the minimum set of drivers for the imx6 devices we need, and reasonable freebsd stability -- I had a board running a stress test with 2 months of uptime) we designed our own motherboards with EDM sockets on them. -- Ian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 08:28 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: By the way, this is for an embedded mobile device so we are looking for something more like http://www.kontron.com/products/computeronmodules/smarc/smarc-samx6i.html instead of Wandboard which has all the connectors that we won't use. That's similar to the EDM module that wandboards use: http://www.technexion.com/products/edm/edm-som/edm1-cf-imx6 You can buy the EDM modules directly from Technexion if you're willing to buy quantity, or through resellers like Digikey. The EDM modules from technexion are compatible with the wandboard carrier boards, so you can use a few cheap wandboards as devel and eval boards (or you can buy the overpriced fairyboard carrier from technexion that has PCIe connectors that wandboard lacks). We're using these modules at $work, and that's basically the path I took... I started with a wandboard and got freebsd running on it, and once it got past the proof of concept stage (the minimum set of drivers for the imx6 devices we need, and reasonable freebsd stability -- I had a board running a stress test with 2 months of uptime) we designed our own motherboards with EDM sockets on them. -- Ian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
How about these Tegra3 boards? https://www.toradex.com/computer-on-modules/apalis-arm-family/nvidia-tegra-3 -- Johannes Lundberg BRILLIANTSERVICE CO., LTD. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 秘密保持について：この電子メールは、名宛人に送信したものであり、秘匿特権の対象となる情報を含んでいます。 もし、名宛人以外の方が受信された場合、このメールの破棄、およびこのメールに関する一切の開示、 複写、配布、その他の利用、または記載内容に基づくいかなる行動もされないようお願い申し上げます。 --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Disclosure, copying, distribution or any other action of use of this email by person other than intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please destroy the original message. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:36:00PM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 09:12 +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Ah now I see it has EDM connection. I didn't look carefully enough. All the images are with the expansion board attached.. Spec-wise and portability-wise it seems like a good option but my hardware guy keeps warning me about Freescale that they often have hardware bugs and rather than fixing the bugs they pretend they are not there.. In other words, Freescale is good for software developers because of open documentation but not so for hardware manufactures. Any experiences with this? The imx6 manuals include an errata list, so it would be good to check that for anything specific that would matter to your projects. If you use a prebuild module then you don't get much in touch with the freescale chip fropm the hardware side. On the other hand, there are countless iMX6 boards out there with schematics online. My recently bought Novena even came with printed schematics and they open sourced the HW design files as well. I don't think there are hidden surprises on the hardware side. For the devices we use in our products everything is good so far with the hardware. That's emmc, sdcard, ethernet, i2c, uarts, usb, and lots of gpio (inputs and outputs). The ethernet is gigabit but has a known limitation of 40MB/s due to the bus it's connected to in the chip. (But hey, it's documented so it's not a problem, right? :) You mentioned video, and we don't have that working on freebsd imx6 yet, but there's not a ton of work to do. There's a framebuffer driver for imx5 and it has pretty much the same framebuffer hardware. Getting video output to a TTL LCD is probably just hours of work. Getting it to an LVDS LCD or HDMI probably needs days of work (entire drivers written, potentially, I haven't looked into it). Sounds interesting for my Novena. The one I already got are board only (with some FPGA breakout, ...). They have HDMI though. But I'm also awaiting for the one with case and LCD panel. Not to forget that I have a fairy EDM carrier with LCD already. That said I'v always wondered how much work is it to get the camera interface running, since the Hummingboards can connect to the RPi camera modules. Some audio support was recently committed, but I don't know much about it yet. -- Ian -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 06:52:52PM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. In that range I would go for a Wandboard. They are 1, 2 or 4 core iMX6 32bit with 512M, 1G or 2G RAM. The 4 core has SATA, which to my knowledge we don't support yet. They come with 2 useable SD-card slots - one on the module and one on a carrier board. Clock rate is 1GHz only IIRC and they only have high speed USB, although the newest carrier boards have some super speed wiring for future modules. TechNexion, the originator of that module system also has some x86 boards - some may fit your requirements, but those are at a higher price and bigger form factor. Tech Nexion also has iMX6 boards similar to the wandboard with different featuresets, but also at a higher price. I wish to minimize the amount of porting needed so I am very grateful if someone has good insights in this area. And of course, it would help a lot if it was a manufacturer who is willing to provide datasheets to make porting possible.. Freescale is producting the iMX6 and they supply a hughe PDF for them. Also the wandboard schematics are public available. -- B.Walter be...@bwct.de http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Lundberg, Johannes johan...@brilliantservice.co.jp wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. I wish to minimize the amount of porting needed so I am very grateful if someone has good insights in this area. And of course, it would help a lot if it was a manufacturer who is willing to provide datasheets to make porting possible.. Thanks! -- Johannes Lundberg Something like http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/specifications/fitlet-models-specifications/ perhaps? Though I don't think it is available yet, so I don't know if it is supported in FreeBSD. Best regards Andreas ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: System-On-Module
On Wed, 2015-01-28 at 19:32 +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 06:52:52PM +0900, Lundberg, Johannes wrote: Hi Of all the low power, high-spec system/computer-on-modules out there which have best support for FreeBSD? MEN Variscite Technologic system Adlink etc. What I am looking for is a system with roughly this specs ARM or x86, 64bit if possible. 2-4 cores 1.5-2.0 GHz 2 GB RAM ~16 GB Storage USB 3.0 PCB size about one to two credit cards. In that range I would go for a Wandboard. They are 1, 2 or 4 core iMX6 32bit with 512M, 1G or 2G RAM. The 4 core has SATA, which to my knowledge we don't support yet. They come with 2 useable SD-card slots - one on the module and one on a carrier board. Clock rate is 1GHz only IIRC and they only have high speed USB, although the newest carrier boards have some super speed wiring for future modules. TechNexion, the originator of that module system also has some x86 boards - some may fit your requirements, but those are at a higher price and bigger form factor. Tech Nexion also has iMX6 boards similar to the wandboard with different featuresets, but also at a higher price. You do get more for that higher price with the Technexion EDM modules, namely 1.2ghz chips instead of 1.0, and parts that are industrial and/or automotive temperature-rated rather than consumer grade. On the other hand, you generally can't buy Technexion modules one at a time. Last time I checked they were minimum order 10 pieces even from resellers like Mouser and Digikey. Another small-board imx6 possibility is the Hummingboard from SolidRun. I now have freebsd running on a SolidRun Cubox-i4, so I expect no large drama in getting it working on other SolidRun imx6 products. Gonzo ordered a Hummingboard recently, so we should know for sure some time soon. -- Ian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
