Re: ISP questions
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 06:33:05AM -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:13:47 -0600 > Chad Perrin wrote: > > >If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something > >entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be > >imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies, > >and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held > >hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those > >incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of > >people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise > >screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that > >treatment. > > > >(Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.) > > > >So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of > >circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with > >screwing you over. I prefer to gamble on other things. Your mileage > >may vary. > > I am not going to debate. > > 1) Your math doesn't even begin to compute - as you stated. How do you figure? > 2) You have supplied no factual proof of your statement. Innuendo is not > evidence. Try http://nodaddy.com for examples. > > Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you > should live in a bubble? If you have documented proof of your > statements, I would love to see them. If not, you sound like someone > who screwed up, got burned and like is now the norm in our society, > refusing to take responsibility for it; preferring to place the blame on > someone or something else. I haven't been burned by GoDaddy. As you might have surmised from previous statements (if you were paying enough attention), I have chosen to learn from others' mistakes in the case of GoDaddy rather than obstinately insisting on making such a mistake for myself. Thanks for degrading the apparent rigor of your own arguments by descending into ad hominem fallacy, though, assuming I've done something I haven't so you can blame me, the hypothetical victim, for what has(n't actually) been done to me. The only way I remember having been "burned" by my choice of registrar, and thus having to learn from my own mistake, was the case of using a single provider for both domain registration and Webhosting. I learned from that experience that if a single provider handles both domain registration and Webhosting for that domain, it makes it really easy for that provider to screw the user by making it as difficult as possible to move one or the other service to a different provider, thus costing more money over a longer period while giving crappy service -- essentially creating an artificial lock-in situation from which it may be difficult to extricate oneself. I didn't have that particular problem with GoDaddy, but I certainly wouldn't put it past that company. > > If you don't like GoDaddy, that is your prerogative. However, > slandering them with undocumented statements is rather low. As I said, > I have not had a problem with them in the seven years I have used their > services. Obviously, that does not coincide with your statements. You didn't ask for documentation, and that's not the direction the discussion was going. I provided a URL so you can see some corroborating documentation of real-world incidents above, though, now that you've specifically brought up the point of such evidence. The fact you, yourself have not had a problem, may well be a matter of nothing but luck. In fact, I'm sure most GoDaddy customers haven't had a problem. That's sorta the point, though -- as long as the incidence of problems is kept below a particular threshold, GoDaddy is free to screw over that small percentage of exceptions with relative impunity, unless those who know about such incidents try to get the word out to help other would-be customers protect themselves. It's not like I have a selfish aim in suggesting one use a different registrar; I don't run, or work for, or otherwise have a relationship with, a competing company (other than being another company's customer, of course). > > Out of morbid curiosity, who are you presently using? I am willing to > bet that I can find someone with a horror story to tell about them > also. Would it be accurate; you tell me? I'm using pairNIC. If you find such horror stories, please let me know, and I'll investigate them to determine whether I consider them credible and suggestive of the likelihood that the same thing could happen to me. Some horror stories are suggestive of bad policy to which I don't want to submit myself; others are merely suggestive of a fluke, or exaggeration. The fact is that the GoDaddy horror stories I've seen have, in some cases, actually been thoroughly documented not only by the parties involved (on both sides, in fact), but by the news media as well, and they're very suggestive of policies that can lead to terrible abuses of customers
Re: ISP questions
Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you Everything is dangerous, life itself being the most - always ends with death. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:13:47 -0600 Chad Perrin wrote: >If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something >entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be >imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies, >and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held >hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those >incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of >people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise >screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that >treatment. > >(Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.) > >So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of >circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with >screwing you over. I prefer to gamble on other things. Your mileage >may vary. I am not going to debate. 1) Your math doesn't even begin to compute - as you stated. 2) You have supplied no factual proof of your statement. Innuendo is not evidence. Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you should live in a bubble? If you have documented proof of your statements, I would love to see them. If not, you sound like someone who screwed up, got burned and like is now the norm in our society, refusing to take responsibility for it; preferring to place the blame on someone or something else. If you don't like GoDaddy, that is your prerogative. However, slandering them with undocumented statements is rather low. As I said, I have not had a problem with them in the seven years I have used their services. Obviously, that does not coincide with your statements. Out of morbid curiosity, who are you presently using? I am willing to bet that I can find someone with a horror story to tell about them also. Would it be accurate; you tell me? -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com QOTD: "Every morning I read the obituaries; if my name's not there, I go to work." signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:31:12PM -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:55:49 -0600 > Chad Perrin wrote: > > >I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I > >will be forced to learn from my own. If you really want to learn from > >your own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where > >GoDaddy has screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in > >willful ignorance until the day when your luck changes. I guess > >that's your prerogative. > > I believe you are over generalizing it. I have had two occasions where > FBSD crashed and I lost a considerable amount of data. According to > your statement, I should just say screw FBSD and move on to another OS. FreeBSD doesn't have volition. Using FreeBSD isn't a matter of trusting the software's intentions. GoDaddy executives and managers *do* have volition. Using GoDaddy *is* a matter of trusting the executives' and managers' intentions. Next, we'll be comparing apples and . . . windows, I guess, since oranges at least are fruit. Pun intended. > > Seriously though, if they have X number of clients and only .1% of them > have experienced a problem, is there really a problem? I don't know > since I don't have statistics on GoDaddy. Obviously you do. Would you > be kind enough to post them so I could inspect them myself. If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies, and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that treatment. (Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.) So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with screwing you over. I prefer to gamble on other things. Your mileage may vary. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpz1uQAXzmV1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:55:49 -0600 Chad Perrin wrote: >I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I >will be forced to learn from my own. If you really want to learn from >your own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where >GoDaddy has screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in >willful ignorance until the day when your luck changes. I guess >that's your prerogative. I believe you are over generalizing it. I have had two occasions where FBSD crashed and I lost a considerable amount of data. According to your statement, I should just say screw FBSD and move on to another OS. Seriously though, if they have X number of clients and only .1% of them have experienced a problem, is there really a problem? I don't know since I don't have statistics on GoDaddy. Obviously you do. Would you be kind enough to post them so I could inspect them myself. Thanks! -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com They're unfriendly, which is fortunate, really. They'd be difficult to like. Avon signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 04:45:43AM -0400, Jerry wrote: > > I have used GoDaddy for 7 years now without a single problem. Maybe I > am just lucky. I have only contacted them twice; however, I received > a quick and courteous response to my inquiry. I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I will be forced to learn from my own. If you really want to learn from your own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where GoDaddy has screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in willful ignorance until the day when your luck changes. I guess that's your prerogative. > > I know nothing about their philanthropic practices, nor does it concern > me, unless I happen to be the beneficiary of such acts. I think you missed the import of what I said about supporting open source projects, and how that seems a strongly correlated indicator of other good business practices. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Paul Graham: "Object-oriented programming offers a sustainable way to write spaghetti code." pgp5SadjwUTiM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:46:29 -0600 Chad Perrin wrote: >On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:50:35PM -0400, itsemu wrote: >> if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the >> requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides >> windows.. probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any >> idea what hardware each different county they are supporting has in >> there headend because its all different, reverse dns will probably >> be a waste of ip space because of the way its assigned in classes >> and i seriously doubt they will do it via a ticket if its not that >> way. named registration if im catching that right godaddys probably >> going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows.. > >Use a better registrar than GoDaddy. Price isn't everything, and >GoDaddy will as soon screw you over as look at you. > >When searching for registrars to use, the first thing I do is look for >registrars that have donated domain registration and/or hosting >services to open source projects, because that always says something >nice about their level of customer service and knowledgeability. The >second thing I look for is their conflict resolution policy, because I >never want to be in the position of having my service halted on >someone else's say-so for something that isn't my fault without anyone >letting me know there's a problem in time to fix it before service is >cut off -- and I *definitely* don't want to pay a >severeal-hundred-dollar ransom to get my domain name back (a favorite >dirty trick of GoDaddy's). > >Price is somewhere down around concern five or six when I'm choosing a >domain name registrar. I have used GoDaddy for 7 years now without a single problem. Maybe I am just lucky. I have only contacted them twice; however, I received a quick and courteous response to my inquiry. I know nothing about their philanthropic practices, nor does it concern me, unless I happen to be the beneficiary of such acts. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com O'Reilly's Law of the Kitchen: Cleanliness is next to impossible signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 06:23:56PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had > >a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated, > >angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable > >why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving > >door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months. > > I think there are people doing this that can work for years. just a matter > of personal character, they could completely don't care :) In my experience, the people who remain in such positions for more than a couple years and don't quit or get moved/promoted somewhere else tend to turn into BOFH-types who have a sense of entitlement, enjoy making others' lives difficult, and epitomize the very worst qualities of common tech support personnel. They basically turn into (or were, from the beginning) people that should just get an ass-kicking about daily. There are exceptions, of course, but they're few and far between, from what I've seen. > > Some still insist that it's our fault, they we have to go to them, run > some DVD-bootable linux distro with web browser and show that all is fine God, I *wish* I could find ISP tech support people who were knowledgeable enough to do something like that -- then maybe when I have a connectivity problem we'd actually be able to sort the problem out in one call, instead of the tech support people I talk to being hampered by both lack of knowledge and bureaucratic shackles so that nothing's going to get fixed for at least three hours. My at one point ISP actually had (I don't know if this is still the case) a special telephone number to call for some stupid automated connectivity test to be run, and when I called once to try to get troubleshooting for my connection I was told to hang up, call that number, follow directions, then call back with the case number it gave me if there was actually a connectivity problem. Seriously, this is what it has come to -- nobody knows how to use ping or traceroute any longer, apparently. This is especially problematic when the problem I was having wasn't a complete outage, but *intermittent* service failure, so the damned thing didn't even detect a connection problem because there wasn't one at that exact moment. Anyway . . . my point is that I'd love to deal with tech support that knows what a Linux distribution LiveCD is, rather than tech support that doesn't know what ping and traceroute are. I get the feeling modern public corporation ISPs actually *want* their tech support personnel to be ignorant morons so they can avoid having to fix problems, simply snowing users in with stupidity long enough to see if the problem "goes away" (even if only by the customer going away in annoyance). Clearly, individual customers aren't important to ISP management these days. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Martin Golding: "Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live." pgpqZcbXRBiLg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:50:35PM -0400, itsemu wrote: > if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the > requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows.. > probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware > each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its > all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of > the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a > ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right > godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows.. Use a better registrar than GoDaddy. Price isn't everything, and GoDaddy will as soon screw you over as look at you. When searching for registrars to use, the first thing I do is look for registrars that have donated domain registration and/or hosting services to open source projects, because that always says something nice about their level of customer service and knowledgeability. The second thing I look for is their conflict resolution policy, because I never want to be in the position of having my service halted on someone else's say-so for something that isn't my fault without anyone letting me know there's a problem in time to fix it before service is cut off -- and I *definitely* don't want to pay a severeal-hundred-dollar ransom to get my domain name back (a favorite dirty trick of GoDaddy's). Price is somewhere down around concern five or six when I'm choosing a domain name registrar. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Robert Martin: "Would you rather Test-First, or Debug-Later?" pgpO4IKR0s0Ds.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
S> months. I've been at a US Air Force MIS helpdesk since Sept 1988. I wrote an article about some of my favorite tools, and as an aside I mentioned my time working in IT support. My favorite article comment: "If I'm still doing this in 21 years, someone please write a program to kill me." just read polish article about whole US army having to switch to windows vista because someone decided so - no i fully understand you :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:43:17 -0400, >> Steve Bertrand said: S> If you've ever had a job in which every single incoming call is someone S> who is frustrated, angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might S> be understandable why the tech support call centre business is like an S> employee revolving door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few S> months. I've been at a US Air Force MIS helpdesk since Sept 1988. I wrote an article about some of my favorite tools, and as an aside I mentioned my time working in IT support. My favorite article comment: "If I'm still doing this in 21 years, someone please write a program to kill me." -- Karl Vogel I don't speak for the USAF or my company Oh anchor bimbo, The gleam from your whitened teeth Gives me a migraine.--snotty media haiku ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
I did the support gig for the better part of two years when I started school. It was difficult, especially when the people that were frustrated, angry, and determined to take it out on me had broken or ancient hardware and lived out in the boondocks where audible crackling Just put the earphone on table and wait until the noise ends :) I even had a guy call in once who got irate with me because I wouldn't help him troubleshoot why his video card was displaying only 256 colors. Simply because it's not your job. them, how to edit the zone files, etc. When that ISP was acquired by a larger one, and operations expanded and the different departments separated, things started getting dumb. Rapidly. And that's why in any normal system big companies will loose to small ones. Small company will ALWAYS be better managed, and run cheaper. But we don't live in normal system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
You are absolutely right, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Even I will admit to not minding hanging on the phone a few extra minutes with a calm, polite user (no matter how 'green' they are) if they do what I say (without click-click-clicking in the background) throughout the troubleshooting process. To be honest i just don't know windows much so i can't help much. We *always* will be up front and honest if we (or any of our wholesalers or intermediaries) are having issues (that we know about). And that's right. Same if WE have/had problems we simply tell clients the truth. It's the users who scream and bitch and claim "it hasn't worked for a month!", Simply answer "why didn't you call month ago? As you called now, i count this as problem started today". ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Well, I don't know about cable, but this is the way DSL works. 90%+ of the issues with DSL are due to the modem losing connectivity overnight, so a reboot is the quickest and easiest method of troubleshooting. i don't remember now what brand of modem i have (i'm not in place) from Polish Telecom but it never hung for over 1.5 year! people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management. The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated, angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months. I think there are people doing this that can work for years. just a matter of personal character, they could completely don't care :) I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error. i bet 95% I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch and snivel and have no respect. I don't agree. 90% of my people i have to respond (my clients) are not like that. They ask politely, but the problem is that they ask me to do things that is not my job, because "internet doesn't work". There are no connection problems, but as usual windoze doesn't work properly. I have to explain every time that they have to call some kind of computer/windoze service and pay to have things repaired. Some still insist that it's our fault, they we have to go to them, run some DVD-bootable linux distro with web browser and show that all is fine :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Written by Steve Bertrand on 06/05/09 08:43>> >> Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support >> people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for >> their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management. > > The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had > a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated, > angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable > why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving > door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months. > I did the support gig for the better part of two years when I started school. It was difficult, especially when the people that were frustrated, angry, and determined to take it out on me had broken or ancient hardware and lived out in the boondocks where audible crackling could be heard over the same phone line they were using to dial in with. I even had a guy call in once who got irate with me because I wouldn't help him troubleshoot why his video card was displaying only 256 colors. He just wanted someone to be mad at, and I was it. > I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that > about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error. > > Unless it's a relatively small ISP, you can't expect the tech support > people to be able to answer questions relating to the engineering of > their network (how many hops to the core), what software they run on > their servers etc. > This is very true. When the ISP I worked at was smaller and had a support staff of around 10 people, and the network engineers where in the next room, everyone knew what servers ran what services, what type of machines they were, what versions of what operating systems were one them, how to edit the zone files, etc. When that ISP was acquired by a larger one, and operations expanded and the different departments separated, things started getting dumb. Rapidly. > Perhaps if people were to call into their tech support helpdesk every > once in a while when they *aren't* having any issues just to tell them > that their doing a heck of a job, and to have a nice day, you might find > the staff willing to stay around a bit longer and become a little more > knowledgeable for the next time one calls. > IMO, I think it's more laudable to take a minute to calm down when you have an issue, take a deep breath, consider the position of the guy/girl on the other end, and then make your tech support call with the intention of making it productive for the poor dude/lady who is likely getting bitched at not only from other users, but from his/her own management as well for having an average call time over 5 minutes or for taking a 16 minute break when only 15 minutes are allowed. Recognize that every time that rep's phone rings, he/she feels a wave of horror and anxiety for what might be on the other end - some problem they can't solve, and irate user, a fed up user calling to cancel (but management won't allow them to comply without trying to dissuade the user or put them through a lengthy exit poll), or maybe the first call to mark the beginning of an outage, sure to be followed by nothing but irate callers for the next several hours. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Bill Moran wrote: > In response to Steve Bertrand : > > [snip] > >> Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to >> time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while >> (unfortunately). >> >> I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch >> and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if >> your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me? >> >> I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a >> decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn. > > I think there's a serious lesson to be learned here ... many years ago > I realized just the kind of crap these people have to deal with on a > daily basis, and I make it a point to be polite and friendly _any_ time > I call tech support. The upshot of this is that I've noticed that I'll > get answers and help where other people won't ... the tech support folks > _want_ to stay on the phone with me. You are absolutely right, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Even I will admit to not minding hanging on the phone a few extra minutes with a calm, polite user (no matter how 'green' they are) if they do what I say (without click-click-clicking in the background) throughout the troubleshooting process. We *always* will be up front and honest if we (or any of our wholesalers or intermediaries) are having issues (that we know about). Being small, we also expect users to believe that when we tell them that they are having a problem at their end and they need to call someone in, that we actually know what we are talking about. It's the users who scream and bitch and claim "it hasn't worked for a month!", meanwhile their IE is displaying an illegal page fault that are really frustrating. > The downside to this is when I make a call and either I or the the tech > support person knows that they can't fix my problem -- being polite doesn't > help much. No, but remaining polite after you _both_ realize this and come to terms with it will help you remain calm, and help the tech person be able to deal with the next available irate client a little better. > When the both of us know that management or the higher level > tech screwed something up and the tech support folks are supposed to be > covering it up, there's not much you can really say or do, and that's > _really_ frustrating. Yes, I agree. I've been in that position previously during times where I wasn't connected to my own ISP. I must say, that my experience working in an ISP environment has completely changed my attitude when it comes to me having to call a different ISP on behalf of someone else (mind you, if required, I can usually find someone there that has a clue). Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: ISP questions
In response to Steve Bertrand : [snip] > Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to > time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while > (unfortunately). > > I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch > and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if > your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me? > > I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a > decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn. I think there's a serious lesson to be learned here ... many years ago I realized just the kind of crap these people have to deal with on a daily basis, and I make it a point to be polite and friendly _any_ time I call tech support. The upshot of this is that I've noticed that I'll get answers and help where other people won't ... the tech support folks _want_ to stay on the phone with me. The downside to this is when I make a call and either I or the the tech support person knows that they can't fix my problem -- being polite doesn't help much. When the both of us know that management or the higher level tech screwed something up and the tech support folks are supposed to be covering it up, there's not much you can really say or do, and that's _really_ frustrating. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Modulok wrote: > While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake: > > - Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable > modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best. Well, I don't know about cable, but this is the way DSL works. 90%+ of the issues with DSL are due to the modem losing connectivity overnight, so a reboot is the quickest and easiest method of troubleshooting. We've got nearly all of our DSL subs trained to reboot their CPE before they call us. If that solution weeds out 50% of support calls, then our staff can focus on bigger and better things. > Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support > people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for > their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management. The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated, angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months. I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error. Unless it's a relatively small ISP, you can't expect the tech support people to be able to answer questions relating to the engineering of their network (how many hops to the core), what software they run on their servers etc. Perhaps if people were to call into their tech support helpdesk every once in a while when they *aren't* having any issues just to tell them that their doing a heck of a job, and to have a nice day, you might find the staff willing to stay around a bit longer and become a little more knowledgeable for the next time one calls. Steve Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while (unfortunately). I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me? I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: ISP questions
itsemu wrote: > if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the > requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows.. Excuse me, unless you have ever worked at an ISP, might I kindly ask you to have some respect. (if you have, the call centre you likely worked for != ISP). > probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware > each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its > all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of > the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a > ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right > godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows.. Nevermind. I should have read your entire post before I started to respond. It's clear that you have the experience and education behind you to make statements about the knowledge of ISP staff. Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: ISP questions
in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers. Man, you're with the wrong ISP. Or maybe it's best ISP available there? :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month 1Gbyte/s? Yes. it's 10Gbit/s No. So 1Gbyte or Gbit/s? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Reid Linnemann wrote: Written by Mark Hartkemeyer on 06/04/09 11:23>> I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four people before I even got some of them answered. Here are some of the questions and answers: 1. What speed connections do you offer? 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? "You need a static IP." 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? "Talk to residential services." 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http server on my connection. 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? (They didn't know.) I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? Thanks, Mark Hartkemeyer These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was wrong. There was a point in time when a technical support representative for an ISP was knowledgeable and courteous, but those days are forever gone and those reps have been replaced with poorly trained monkeys that are forbidden to divert from The Script. You could not get any intelligible information about the ISP's services any more than you could expect to get intelligible information about a Dell computer's north bridge controller from a Walmart Associate. This is attributable to the explosion in popularity of personal internet access, resulting in a greater need for servicing a high volume of low complexity technical support requests (e.g., "my internet don't work"). The reps are paid far to little to be technically competent and the ISP doesn't get a return for training them to be proficient when they can just ist them in front of a knowledge database they've already invested cash into and tell them to read what it says. You have to meander your way at least up to tier II or III support to get to anyone who might possibly be invested enough in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers. Man, you're with the wrong ISP. The one I use would have no problems at all answering all of the above, and they'd do it on the phone, by e-mail, usenet, IRC and probably by generating smoke-signals from the roof of the datacenter if they thought it would help. Brilliant approach to customer management; technical service levels damn good too, despite everything it seems their NSPs do to foul things up. Actually, the answers to virtually all of those questions are on their web site already. Oh, and they actually like you to run your own mail, web and DNS... The only slight flaw is that they are a bunch of penguinistas rather than embracing the one true daemonic faith. But I can forgive them for that. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: ISP questions
if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows.. probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows.. On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Modulok wrote: > On 6/4/09, Mark Hartkemeyer wrote: > > I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The > > Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter > > 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my > > ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four > > people before I even got some of them answered. > > > > Here are some of the questions and answers: > > > > 1. What speed connections do you offer? > > 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) > > 768kBps > > > > 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? > > Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package > > > > 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? > > "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they > > misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) > > > > 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? > > "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." > > > > 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? > > "You need a static IP." > > > > 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? > > "Talk to residential services." > > > > 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some > ports? > > "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After > > asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http > > server on my connection. > > > > 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? > > (They didn't know.) > > > > I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone > > asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response > > did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good > > resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? > > > > Thanks, > > Mark Hartkemeyer > > While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake: > > - Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable > modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best. > > - When faced with questions such as, "Do you guys need advanced notice > if I change my ethernet (MAC) address?" They inform me that my IP > address is static and I should not change it. (I spoofed the MAC > address. It would have taken years on hold for htem to understand.) > > - When I ask them why I have no connection, they go through the > unplug-routine again. I later find out that their service was down for > half the state, but technical support wasn't informed of the outage. > > - One time I called after they had switched to a new phone system. I > could hear technical support, but they couldn't hear me: > > "Technical Support, this is Kathy. How may I help you?" > "Are you guys having trouble on your end? My connection just bit the dust." > "Sir?" > "Yes, what?" > "Sir are you there?" > "Umm...yeah. I'm right here, Kathy. Hello!" > "*click*" > > - I never get the bandwidth I pay for, because they oversold their service. > > - The guys who wired my location took the most illogical approach > possible. There is probably 500 extra feet of cable that just wraps > around the building from one end to the other. > > - When they showed up to install a lighting arrestor, I had to provide > them with tools, because they forgot to bring any. (They forgot to > bring tools!) > > - My service was inexplicably cancelled one day, despite me never > being offline. So when I had problems a week later, I was told I > didn't have an account with them. This took four hours on the > telephone (Four freaking hours! Mostly on hold.) to clear up. I think > signing up for a new account would have been less painful. Perhaps I > should have just not said anything and waited to see if I was still > receiving a bill. > > - They always ask me to &
Re: ISP questions
On 6/4/09, Mark Hartkemeyer wrote: > I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The > Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter > 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my > ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four > people before I even got some of them answered. > > Here are some of the questions and answers: > > 1. What speed connections do you offer? > 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) > 768kBps > > 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? > Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package > > 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? > "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they > misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) > > 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? > "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." > > 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? > "You need a static IP." > > 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? > "Talk to residential services." > > 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? > "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After > asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http > server on my connection. > > 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? > (They didn't know.) > > I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone > asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response > did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good > resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? > > Thanks, > Mark Hartkemeyer While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake: - Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best. - When faced with questions such as, "Do you guys need advanced notice if I change my ethernet (MAC) address?" They inform me that my IP address is static and I should not change it. (I spoofed the MAC address. It would have taken years on hold for htem to understand.) - When I ask them why I have no connection, they go through the unplug-routine again. I later find out that their service was down for half the state, but technical support wasn't informed of the outage. - One time I called after they had switched to a new phone system. I could hear technical support, but they couldn't hear me: "Technical Support, this is Kathy. How may I help you?" "Are you guys having trouble on your end? My connection just bit the dust." "Sir?" "Yes, what?" "Sir are you there?" "Umm...yeah. I'm right here, Kathy. Hello!" "*click*" - I never get the bandwidth I pay for, because they oversold their service. - The guys who wired my location took the most illogical approach possible. There is probably 500 extra feet of cable that just wraps around the building from one end to the other. - When they showed up to install a lighting arrestor, I had to provide them with tools, because they forgot to bring any. (They forgot to bring tools!) - My service was inexplicably cancelled one day, despite me never being offline. So when I had problems a week later, I was told I didn't have an account with them. This took four hours on the telephone (Four freaking hours! Mostly on hold.) to clear up. I think signing up for a new account would have been less painful. Perhaps I should have just not said anything and waited to see if I was still receiving a bill. - They always ask me to 'go to the start menu', despite the fact I'm running FreeBSD. One support person didn't know what an operating system was: "Sir, I need you to go to the start menu..." "I'm not on Windows. What is it you're looking for?" "Sir?" "I'm not using Windows. I'm using FreeBSD." "Free what?" "FreeBSD, it's an operating system." "What's an operating system?" "..." *Oh my God* "Sir are you there?" "Yeah, I'm there. I'm in the Windows control panel. Please proceed." We're pretty rural here, so unless I go with a high latency satellite connection, they're the only game in town. Maybe I should start my own ISP. It couldn't be any worse. Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management. Best of luck with your troubles. You're not alone! -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
NB this is a residential ISP I'm writing about. Wojciech Puchar said the following on 2009-06-05 01:34: 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month 1Gbyte/s? it's 10Gbit/s What card do you use to connect? server on my connection. Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Wojciech Puchar said the following on 2009-06-05 01:34: 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month 1Gbyte/s? Yes. it's 10Gbit/s No. What card do you use to connect? A netgear 310fx I only have a 100mb/s server on my connection. Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request. You can't. But I have a real connection which does not (yet) block the ports. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month 1Gbyte/s? it's 10Gbit/s What card do you use to connect? server on my connection. Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Mark Hartkemeyer said the following on 2009-06-04 18:23: I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four people before I even got some of them answered. Here are some of the questions and answers: 1. What speed connections do you offer? 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package Yes 50SEK a month 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) No answer 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." Sun and solaris + linux 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? "You need a static IP." No. Do it yourself. 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? "Talk to residential services." No 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http server on my connection. Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? (They didn't know.) Yes. I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? Thanks, Mark Hartkemeyer ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was It's just "marketing bandwidth" as most clients don't understand what it mean anyway, but just expect higher value that others for the same price. It's at most - top limit. Actually - such speed are never achievable unless you use it at 3:00 am. Sometimes never at all. Like local cable TV, they have 6 possible prices for internet access, called from 256kbps/64kbps to 10Mbps/2Mbps, actually you rarely see any difference and it's closest to lowest offer. But people like to hear this so they hear, and at least here marketing people know perfectly what to answer about "internet speed" as they call it :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
"Your the only one who's found this problem, so we'll wait until the next version to patch this problem. It's just like my upstream network provider. When they have longer problems i heard "Sorry we working on this, you must be really unlucky, as nobody else have problems here". I asked few their other clients then - they heard exactly the same. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Written by Mark Hartkemeyer on 06/04/09 11:23>> > I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The > Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter > 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my > ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four > people before I even got some of them answered. > > Here are some of the questions and answers: > > 1. What speed connections do you offer? > 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) > 768kBps > > 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? > Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package > > 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? > "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they > misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) > > 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? > "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." > > 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? > "You need a static IP." > > 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? > "Talk to residential services." > > 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? > "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After > asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http > server on my connection. > > 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? > (They didn't know.) > > I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone > asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response > did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good > resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? > > Thanks, > Mark Hartkemeyer These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was wrong. There was a point in time when a technical support representative for an ISP was knowledgeable and courteous, but those days are forever gone and those reps have been replaced with poorly trained monkeys that are forbidden to divert from The Script. You could not get any intelligible information about the ISP's services any more than you could expect to get intelligible information about a Dell computer's north bridge controller from a Walmart Associate. This is attributable to the explosion in popularity of personal internet access, resulting in a greater need for servicing a high volume of low complexity technical support requests (e.g., "my internet don't work"). The reps are paid far to little to be technically competent and the ISP doesn't get a return for training them to be proficient when they can just ist them in front of a knowledge database they've already invested cash into and tell them to read what it says. You have to meander your way at least up to tier II or III support to get to anyone who might possibly be invested enough in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > From: Wojciech Puchar > Subject: Re: ISP questions > To: "Bill Moran" > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 12:56 PM > >> 4. What kind of hardware and > software are you running? > >> "Can't provide this, due > to security reasons." > > > > That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. > > It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, > they simply > fear. > Yeah, most admins just get to set around and do nothing but answer questions on mailing lists. =) Being short handed, under paid and taking care of the support overflow. The time I get to tell some "supposed" grad student/software sales person with a sexy voice. "We don't share that information" makes my day. Just call me paranoid. lol Locked into contracts with software venders will make you answer "Info Not Shared". Unable to make changes while you wait for a patch/fix. "Your the only one who's found this problem, so we'll wait until the next version to patch this problem. > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? >>> "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." >> >> That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. > > It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply > fear. Based on the answers provided, I highly doubt that the OP was speaking to an admin... Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: ISP questions
That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply fear. Based on the answers provided, I highly doubt that the OP was speaking to an admin... Of course not, but THEY require others to not talk about used hardware and software because they fear. And they really believe it helps :) In Poland actually the "hated" Polish Telecom have best managed IP network. Most others are really poor and that's the important reason that Polish Telecom have really little competition. They invested millions of dollars each for hardware, but not employees. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply fear. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:10:17 -0400 Bill Moran wrote: >In response to Mark Hartkemeyer : >> 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? >> "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." > >That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. Actually, I had a Comcast representative give basically the same answer. Evidently, they are trying to discourage 'social engineering'' which is probably not such a bad idea. >> 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some >> ports? "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After >> asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http >> server on my connection. > >That's the stupidest answer I've heard today (just trumped the previous >one). If they can run a mail & http server, they are obviously not blocking ports 25 & 80. I would like to know how they are handling MX setting though. >> 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? >> (They didn't know.) > >Heh. Can they find the bathroom in the dark? Now the rep should know that, especially if the caller is inquiring about a business account. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Why do so many foods come packaged in plastic? It's quite uncanny. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: ISP questions
In response to Mark Hartkemeyer : > I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The > Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter > 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my > ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four > people before I even got some of them answered. > > Here are some of the questions and answers: > > 1. What speed connections do you offer? > 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) If they're doing 5 megabyte per second, then sign me up! > 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? > "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they > misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) I suspect you're correct, although it is possible to have multiple backbones that are different hops away. > 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? > "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." That's the stupidest answer I've heard today. > 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? > "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After > asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http > server on my connection. That's the stupidest answer I've heard today (just trumped the previous one). Reminds me of when I was trying to pay my student loan back, and the bank refused to tell me what the monthly payment was until I started paying it back. No, I'm not making that up or exaggerating. "How do I know what to write the check for?" "We'll tell you." "Well then tell me now." "I can't divulge that information until you start making payments." > 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? > (They didn't know.) Heh. Can they find the bathroom in the dark? > I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone > asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response > did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good > resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? I recommend hooking up with your local user's group. There's probably a LUG in Cinci somewhere, and most LUGs I know are pretty friendly to BSD folks, and there will be someone in the LUG who's already done this research. How 'bout this: http://www.clug.org/ If you meet anyone there who recognizes my name, tell them I said "Hi." -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: ISP questions
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Hartkemeyer wrote: > I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The > Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter > 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my > ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four > people before I even got some of them answered. > > Here are some of the questions and answers: > > 1. What speed connections do you offer? > 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) > 768kBps > > 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? > Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package > > 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? > "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they > misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) > > 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? > "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." > > 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? > "You need a static IP." > > 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? > "Talk to residential services." > > 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? > "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After > asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http > server on my connection. > > 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? > (They didn't know.) > > I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone > asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response > did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good > resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? > > Thanks, > Mark Hartkemeyer > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > 8.Q: I need to change my Reverse DNS on my Static IP for running a mail server. A: What are you talking about? That doesnt Exist. -- mmm, interesante. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
ISP questions
I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. I found the section on ISPs in chapter 18 really interesting. I put some of his recommended questions to my ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown. I think I talked to three or four people before I even got some of them answered. Here are some of the questions and answers: 1. What speed connections do you offer? 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?) 768kBps 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost? Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package 3. How many hops are there to the backbone? "It depends on the site you're trying to reach." (I think they misunderstood what I meant by "backbone"?) 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running? "Can't provide this, due to security reasons." 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me? "You need a static IP." 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost? "Talk to residential services." 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports? "Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons." After asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http server on my connection. 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS? (They didn't know.) I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs. Has anyone asked their ISP questions like these? If so, what kind of response did you get? Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH? Thanks, Mark Hartkemeyer ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
