Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Monday 03 March 2003 19.04, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 09:43:25AM +0100, Lauri Watts wrote: > > That's not a requirement, it's an option, if you want special support for > > that card from something that offers it. Probably X itself, certainly > > nothing related to KDE. > > Ok, but no choice in portupgrade. > Matrox cards are common as muck, even I know how to find out how a > system has one or not. Put the option in pkg_tools.conf > > *What* says libintl is missing? which binary? there is no binary called > > "KDE", something specifically must be giving these problems. > > I am aware of that. It is "startkde" that is complaining. startkde is a script, that runs several commands, we need to narrow down which of them is the problem. > > > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's. > > > I get the highly useful message "Error -1". > > From what? The CD-Rom drive? KDE? What KDE binary? From pkg_add? from > > Portupgrade? from tcsh? From Raelian clones? > > > > Who knows. > > I know. I tried to restore the status quo ante. This, in my mind, was > not so very unreasonable. The information about ports given out is that > they are not dependent on a release. They clearly are. This is a fault > in the system, not in yours truly. No, this is *packages*. Binary *packages* are built on a particular system. and may differ between versions of that particular system. The same port, built on 5.0-Release and 4.7-Release and 4.8-Prerelease will be different compiled binaries from the same source. > > > Now, correct me if I am wrong. > > > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any > > > kind of upgrade system like the release does. > > > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? > > > This is nonsense. > > > From where is it getting this idea ? > > > > uname -a > > Ok, see above. It should not be caring about my release. Ports, > according to all information sources I have read, are not RELEASE > dependent. Of course they may have dependencies, but that is not the > same thing. Right. They are. Only package installs will care about the OS. > > 3: Have an up to date portsdb -u. Run it after every cvsup. Most > > If it actually fails, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. > > Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help > > you. > > I run it every time. I am not paraphrasing errors. You are paraphrasing errors, or cutting them short. One single line of error output from gcc is useless without knowing what it was trying to compile or link, and knowing what other packages are installed so we can guess why it's not finding the files it wants. So you need to paste at least several complete lines above the actual error message before we are able to help you. You seem to be feeling very hostile, but there are several of us out here *trying* to help. You're not making it very easy. If you want the problems fixed, we need more information. If you just want to rant, then this conversation is done, I won't participate anymore. > > 4: Don't try to upgrade piecemeal if other ports are out of date. The > > problem you describe above probably relate to a out of date dependency > > ports, but I can't be totally sure without the info from "pkg_info -Ia". > > Don't paraphrase that output, cut and paste it into an email, or I can't > > help you (are you seeing a pattern here?) > > No. Because you are assuming I am an idiot. I tried, following the > bouncing ball, not assuming I knew better, to bring a system up to date. > It failed. I'm assuming no such thing. I'm telling you that I need specific information that you have not so far provided. If you provide this information, I can help, if you don't, I cannot. It's up to you. > Ok, point taken. > I don't paraphrase. > I can cut and paste "Error -1" or type it in. It still remains "Error > -1". And you still haven't told us *what* command gave that reply. Or any of the other information you have been asked for. > - The ports system is supposed to be independent of the OS/Release, it > is not. It is. The packages are not, they cannot be, because the OS itself is an evolving thing. Packages are not ports, they are single snapshots of a port built on a single snapshot of a released version of the OS. > - KDE is unbuildable. KDE is entirely buildable, very many people have built it successfully on very many versions of this operating system, and on many other operating systems (even HP/UX). If it's not buildable on your system, we still don't have enough information to even begin to diagnose why. As I've asked already, start with posting uname -a, pkg_info -Ia, and the configure results of the first port to fail (that'd be arts, if Qt 3.1 is ok - I haven't seen you yet complain about Qt, so I'll guess it is.) Then we might well be able to start fixing the problems. > - Shoving latest releases of KD
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 06:16:30AM -0500, Jud wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:16:37 -0800, Gary D Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [snip] > > I tried to get the FBSD vers of mozilla working (with plugins) > > for a month. It wasn't until I installed "linux-mozilla" that > > everythng worked here. Flash, shockwave, real-audio... > > Not sure if this is responsible for some or all of the difficulties you > had, but there is no native FreeBSD version of some of the plugins you > mention. This has also resulted in complaints of some plugins not working > with the native FreeBSD version of Opera. I haven't tried FreeBSD's flash > plugin wrapper because I'm using the Linux version of Opera, but IIRC > others have reported happy results. > It took me awhile to realize this! My trouble with the FBSD mozilla was that the newest gave me a SEGV ... (An oldr version worked, bbut was I satisfied? ) *sigh* gary > -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thought.org Public service Unix To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
At 2003-03-03T18:08:58Z, Cliff Sarginson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Now, what *exactly* does the portupgrade command you've been typing look >> like? Have you run a 'pkgdb -F'? > Yes and yes. Ummm I didn't really have a boolean answer in mind when I asked the first one. ;) > And yes, I have run -F until I do it in my sleep. OK. To be explicitly clear, does it complete without any errors at all? -- Kirk Strauser In Googlis non est, ergo non est. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 11:25:18AM -0600, Kirk Strauser wrote: > At 2003-03-03T01:19:27Z, Cliff Sarginson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I regard portupgrade as a useless, time-wasting tool. If you have had luck > > with it. Then consider yourself blessed. > > OK, it's time to back off. Name calling isn't going to get anywhere. > > Now, what *exactly* does the portupgrade command you've been typing look > like? Have you run a 'pkgdb -F'? Yes and yes. Name calling is a waste of time. I agree. And yes, I have run -F until I do it in my sleep. -- Regards Cliff [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 09:43:25AM +0100, Lauri Watts wrote: Content-Description: signed data > On Monday 03 March 2003 02.19, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > > Hello, > > Ok so portupgrde did not work in installing the latest KDE. > > I cannot get KDE to run at all. > > I get errors about libintl being missing. > > Plus a mysterious and new requirement to tell make I have a Matrox 450 > > card. > > That's not a requirement, it's an option, if you want special support for that > card from something that offers it. Probably X itself, certainly nothing > related to KDE. > Ok, but no choice in portupgrade. Matrox cards are common as muck, even I know how to find out how a system has one or not. > *What* says libintl is missing? which binary? there is no binary called "KDE", > something specifically must be giving these problems. > I am aware of that. It is "startkde" that is complaining. > Does upgrading gettext help. You *need* to keep your dependencies up to date > as well as the port you're trying to upgrade, these things are not developed > in a vacuum. > Yes, that is why I did try to do a massive dependent upgrade, following tips given in the Portupgrade manual page. Unfortunately the tips failed. > > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's. > > I get the highly useful message "Error -1". > > From what? The CD-Rom drive? KDE? What KDE binary? From pkg_add? from > Portupgrade? from tcsh? From Raelian clones? > > Who knows. I know. I tried to restore the status quo ante. This, in my mind, was not so very unreasonable. The information about ports given out is that they are not dependent on a release. They clearly are. This is a fault in the system, not in yours truly. > > > Now, correct me if I am wrong. > > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind > > of upgrade system like the release does. > > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? > > This is nonsense. > > From where is it getting this idea ? > > uname -a > Ok, see above. It should not be caring about my release. Ports, according to all information sources I have read, are not RELEASE dependent. Of course they may have dependencies, but that is not the same thing. > Because you are trying to make it install packages, for a branch that doesn't > exist yet. I honestly could explain this, but it would take more time than I > have this precise minute, and wouldn't help you fix anything anyway. > No, no. This is *NOT* what the documentation says. I am trying to install ports. And the impression given is that this has *nothing* to do with the release. Does, for example, "spamassassin", depend on whether you are running 4.6, 4.7, or 4.8 Release ? Of course it doesn't. The tag for ports is ".", not the release. > So here's my "Lauri's rules to upgrading ports and stuff" > > 1: Don't mix pkg_add -r and portupgrade, you *will* have problems. You can > mix "make install" and portupgrade, in most cases. > Ok, very well documented..NOT. Do you think I went into this blind ? > 2: Run pkgdb -F before you try to do anything. Follow it's instructions to > the letter. *Fix* your pkgdb before you continue. If you don't understand > what it's asking you, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. > Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help > you. > Done it, been there. I have read all the documentation, and followed the email threads. I am not alone in having problems with portupgrade. > 3: Have an up to date portsdb -u. Run it after every cvsup. Most everyone > will advise you do "portsdb -Uu" and it won't hurt if you do, but it will > take exponentially longer. You'll have a shiny up to date index out of it > though. portsdb -u is the one that portupgrade needs to be up to date to > work effectively. > Ignore the complaints it makes about anything, you only have an actual problem > if it fails to complete it's run. > If it actually fails, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. Don't > give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help you. > I run it every time. I am not paraphrasing errors. > 4: Don't try to upgrade piecemeal if other ports are out of date. The problem > you describe above probably relate to a out of date dependency ports, but I > can't be totally sure without the info from "pkg_info -Ia". Don't > paraphrase that output, cut and paste it into an email, or I can't help you > (are you seeing a pattern here?) > No. Because you are assuming I am an idiot. I tried, following the bouncing ball, not assuming I knew better, to bring a system up to date. It failed. > *ALL* dependencies must be up to date, before you try to upgrade something > like KDE.It probably won't build with an old version of anything that it > depends on, and if it does, it might not work. If you really have your > system in such a mess as I suspect, it's amazing anything is workin
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
At 2003-03-03T01:19:27Z, Cliff Sarginson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I regard portupgrade as a useless, time-wasting tool. If you have had luck > with it. Then consider yourself blessed. OK, it's time to back off. Name calling isn't going to get anywhere. Now, what *exactly* does the portupgrade command you've been typing look like? Have you run a 'pkgdb -F'? -- Kirk Strauser In Googlis non est, ergo non est. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Cliff Sarginson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed: > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind > of upgrade system like the release does. Correct. > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? Because you're running a system with a uname of 4.8-PRERELEASE. It's probably trying to find packages, since for ports it just uses what you have installed. But without knowing what commands you issued or the exact error messages, there's no way to tell. > This is nonsense. > From where is it getting this idea ? >From uname -a, or the same source. > I draw a parellell here, because *none* of the documentation of ports > explains what can go wrong. That's because they can go wrong in so many interesting ways. Most of the times when I see problems, it's because I run with LOCALBASE=/usr/opt, and someone failed to fix a reference to /usr/local. Generally, the maintainer is responsive to fixing that. One of these days I'm going to build everything with LOCALBASE=/usr/opt, and report what breaks. > I regard portupgrade as a useless, time-wasting tool. If you have had > luck with it. Then consider yourself blessed. All protupgrade does is some nice things around the standard commands - like bundling up the old port to reinstall if the install fails. If portupgrade fails, then issuing the same commands will fail without portupgrade. The real problem is that the ports system is fragile. Changing LOCALBASE causes about 10 perent of the ports to fail. I tried running portupgrade with a "-B -j 5" argument for all port builds, and something like a fourth of the ports refuse to build with those arguments. Problems ranged from files not being in place to looping doing the config. Removing those flags fixed everything. kde, being a huge port, is probably particularly sensitive to minor glitches in the environment. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 07:16:37PM -0800, Gary D Kline wrote: > I've been having much the same experience. Trying to upgrade > things let go too long on my 4.7-PRE system has been nearly' > futile. > > I like having src, like most of us hackers. But take Redhat > that a friend installed on another system. It sucks over > ports and plugs them in and adjusts the dependencies and > the newer Linux programs Just-Work. > > I tried to get the FBSD vers of mozilla working (with plugins) > for a month. It wasn't until I installed "linux-mozilla" that > everythng worked here. Flash, shockwave, real-audio... Not a flame, but this is just hard because all those plugins are only available for Linux. Complain to Macromedia & Real.com. FWIW, www/flashpluginwrapper works beautifully for Flash 5, and www/mplayer-plugin handles all my video needs, which does not include Real, granted. But that is only a matter of time. > Flames to /dev/null, gentlemen. I know that RH is commercial. > Still, wouldn't it be "allowable" to check out their ports > system?? And get into RPM hell? No way. Portupgrade should be able to upgrade older systems just fine, but the fact of the matter is that cruft tends to accumulate, even when using only ports. One faulty pkg-plist and something gets left behind. Most of the time this is no problem, but it can cause strange behaviour, for example when a header file is left behind but the corresponding library is not. This is why staying on top of things helps you out, because when plist errors get fixed, you also have the correct registered information in your /var/db/pkg. And of course, as others already pointed out, just complaining without providing error messages or helpful output will of course get you nowhere. Saying 'Red Hat is better because it works there' is only an indication that somewhere along the line something on your system became broken to the point that it broke other things. You need to find out what it is (and that goes to the OP as well). --Stijn -- Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy" pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:16:37 -0800, Gary D Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] I tried to get the FBSD vers of mozilla working (with plugins) for a month. It wasn't until I installed "linux-mozilla" that everythng worked here. Flash, shockwave, real-audio... Not sure if this is responsible for some or all of the difficulties you had, but there is no native FreeBSD version of some of the plugins you mention. This has also resulted in complaints of some plugins not working with the native FreeBSD version of Opera. I haven't tried FreeBSD's flash plugin wrapper because I'm using the Linux version of Opera, but IIRC others have reported happy results. Jud To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Monday 03 March 2003 02.19, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > Hello, > Ok so portupgrde did not work in installing the latest KDE. > I cannot get KDE to run at all. > I get errors about libintl being missing. > Plus a mysterious and new requirement to tell make I have a Matrox 450 > card. That's not a requirement, it's an option, if you want special support for that card from something that offers it. Probably X itself, certainly nothing related to KDE. *What* says libintl is missing? which binary? there is no binary called "KDE", something specifically must be giving these problems. Does upgrading gettext help. You *need* to keep your dependencies up to date as well as the port you're trying to upgrade, these things are not developed in a vacuum. > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's. > I get the highly useful message "Error -1". From what? The CD-Rom drive? KDE? What KDE binary? From pkg_add? from Portupgrade? from tcsh? From Raelian clones? Who knows. > Now, correct me if I am wrong. > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind > of upgrade system like the release does. > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? > This is nonsense. > From where is it getting this idea ? uname -a Because you are trying to make it install packages, for a branch that doesn't exist yet. I honestly could explain this, but it would take more time than I have this precise minute, and wouldn't help you fix anything anyway. So here's my "Lauri's rules to upgrading ports and stuff" 1: Don't mix pkg_add -r and portupgrade, you *will* have problems. You can mix "make install" and portupgrade, in most cases. 2: Run pkgdb -F before you try to do anything. Follow it's instructions to the letter. *Fix* your pkgdb before you continue. If you don't understand what it's asking you, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help you. 3: Have an up to date portsdb -u. Run it after every cvsup. Most everyone will advise you do "portsdb -Uu" and it won't hurt if you do, but it will take exponentially longer. You'll have a shiny up to date index out of it though. portsdb -u is the one that portupgrade needs to be up to date to work effectively. Ignore the complaints it makes about anything, you only have an actual problem if it fails to complete it's run. If it actually fails, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help you. 4: Don't try to upgrade piecemeal if other ports are out of date. The problem you describe above probably relate to a out of date dependency ports, but I can't be totally sure without the info from "pkg_info -Ia". Don't paraphrase that output, cut and paste it into an email, or I can't help you (are you seeing a pattern here?) *ALL* dependencies must be up to date, before you try to upgrade something like KDE.It probably won't build with an old version of anything that it depends on, and if it does, it might not work. If you really have your system in such a mess as I suspect, it's amazing anything is working. You can get in a situation where a particular binary finds it is missing a particular library dependency (your libintl problem) if you install a binary package that was built with a different *version* of the library than the one you now have installed. pkgdb -F will show you these as "stale dependencies", but it can't necessarily fix them, because this is something that can only be fixed by recompiling. You have two choices: 4a: Recompile the affected binary package against the currently installed version of the library, 4b: Reinstall packages of *both* the binary and the library, that were built against each other. Taking that second option, will likely cause the problem to reappear in anything else you've built locally. This is precisely why I say don't mix pkg_add and portupgrade/make install - use one way, or use the other, or be prepared to spend endless hours fixing things by hand. 5: Report build problems with ports *to the maintainer* with the output of "pkg_info -Ia", the output of "uname -a", the output of configure from the affected port (run it again with script, if you must) and config.log from the wrkdir. With these things, we stand a really good chance of diagnosing your problems.Don't paraphrase any of the error logs, cut and paste them. We really can't help you without them. 6: If you've done "make build" in a port and it fails, do this: make clean cvsup your ports try it again *BEFORE* you report a problem. If you've done portupgrade in a port, do the above anyway. If you really want your system fixed, and to understand how to safely upgrade things in place, you need to learn how to complain and report problems effectively. I highly suggest the following pages as reading,
Re: Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 02:19:27AM +0100, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > Hello, > Ok so portupgrde did not work in installing the latest KDE. > I cannot get KDE to run at all. > I get errors about libintl being missing. > Plus a mysterious and new requirement to tell make I have a Matrox 450 > card. > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's. > I get the highly useful message "Error -1". > > So, in my attempts to portupgrade, I get 0 points. > > Now, correct me if I am wrong. > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind > of upgrade system like the release does. > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? > This is nonsense. > From where is it getting this idea ? > > I promise,if someone is capable of explaining this to me, I will write a > HOWTO. > > Because the whole frigging thing is just useless. That is my experience. I've been having much the same experience. Trying to upgrade things let go too long on my 4.7-PRE system has been nearly' futile. I like having src, like most of us hackers. But take Redhat that a friend installed on another system. It sucks over ports and plugs them in and adjusts the dependencies and the newer Linux programs Just-Work. I tried to get the FBSD vers of mozilla working (with plugins) for a month. It wasn't until I installed "linux-mozilla" that everythng worked here. Flash, shockwave, real-audio... Flames to /dev/null, gentlemen. I know that RH is commercial. Still, wouldn't it be "allowable" to check out their ports system?? gary > -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thought.org Public service Unix To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Ok, KDE/Help .. after my moans what now ?
Hello, Ok so portupgrde did not work in installing the latest KDE. I cannot get KDE to run at all. I get errors about libintl being missing. Plus a mysterious and new requirement to tell make I have a Matrox 450 card. Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's. I get the highly useful message "Error -1". So, in my attempts to portupgrade, I get 0 points. Now, correct me if I am wrong. The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind of upgrade system like the release does. Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ? This is nonsense. >From where is it getting this idea ? I promise,if someone is capable of explaining this to me, I will write a HOWTO. Because the whole frigging thing is just useless. That is my experience. You know perhaps, that hackers exploit holes in the protocols, the protocols do not define what to do with pathological messages. So people just made it up. Hence TCP/IP stack exploits. I draw a parellell here, because *none* of the documentation of ports explains what can go wrong. I regard portupgrade as a useless, time-wasting tool. If you have had luck with it. Then consider yourself blessed. -- Regards Cliff [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
