Re: file system on 9.0

[Jerry McAllister]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:25:35AM +, Thomas Mueller wrote:

> from darc...@gmail.com (Denise H. G.):
> 
> > I strongly advise that /usr and /usr/local reside on different
> > partitions. Furthermore, If you plan to run a desktop environment, your
> > /usr/local should be big enough, say 8G - 10G, to hold all stuff you
> > built from the ports. And putting /var on a separate partitiion is a
> > good idea, I think.
>  
> 
> I don't like to put /var on a separate partition because of the danger 
> of running short of space.  I had nervous moments when running 
> freebsd-update on the older computer and seeing the used part of /var grow.

For that very reason, I put /var on a separate partition.   Stuff being
written to /var is most likely to over run stuff and trash a / partition.

jerry





> 
> I don't really see a need to put /usr/local on a separate partition, though 
> conceivably you could build applications with both FreeBSD ports and NetBSD 
> pkgsrc, but keep these separate.  NetBSD pkgsrc has been ported to other 
> (quasi-)Unixes including FreeBSD.  Default directory corresponding to 
> FreeBSD's /usr/local is /usr/pkg .
> 
> I think I like FreeBSD ports better than NetBSD pkgsrc, the latter which I 
> used only with NetBSD.
> 
> I originally installed FreeBSD 9.0-BETA1 using bsdinstall on the USB stick, 
> including the ports.
> 
> There was a conflict when I ran "portsnap fetch update", that didn't work.  I 
> had to run "portsnap fetch" and "portsnap extract", scrapping the ports tree 
> from bsdinstall in favor of the fresh ports tree.  So now I know best to not 
> install ports tree from bsdinstall; this would presumably apply for 
> sysinstall too.
> 
> Tom
> 
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Re: file system on 9.0

[Denise H. G.]

On 2011/11/20 at 19:25, "Thomas Mueller"  wrote:
> 
> from darc...@gmail.com (Denise H. G.):
>> I strongly advise that /usr and /usr/local reside on different
>> partitions. Furthermore, If you plan to run a desktop environment,
>> your /usr/local should be big enough, say 8G - 10G, to hold all
>> stuff you built from the ports. And putting /var on a separate
>> partitiion is a good idea, I think.
>  
>> You can find detailed information on how to lay out and size your
>> partitions in tuning(7) either locally or online.
> 
> The one directory I really want to put on a separate partition is
> /home . That way, you can fully rebuild/redo your system and keep user
> data.
> 

Yes. I always put /home on a separate partition. Actually, my /home is
on a ZFS partition which is of more scalability and easier snapshots.

> I don't like to put /var on a separate partition because of the danger
> of running short of space. I had nervous moments when running
> freebsd-update on the older computer and seeing the used part of /var
> grow.

I always size /var to 2G or 3G, which is typical for me. I seldom run
freebsd-update, but upgrade from sources instead. I only encountered
problems with Xorg that crashed filling up /var with core dumps...

> 
> I don't really see a need to put /usr/local on a separate partition,
> though conceivably you could build applications with both FreeBSD
> ports and NetBSD pkgsrc, but keep these separate. NetBSD pkgsrc has
> been ported to other (quasi-)Unixes including FreeBSD. Default
> directory corresponding to FreeBSD's /usr/local is /usr/pkg .
> 

It is long before I started thinking of joining /usr and /usr/local into
one partition. However, my current installation dates back to FreeBSD 6
or 7. Many things changed exept the filesystem layout.

> I think I like FreeBSD ports better than NetBSD pkgsrc, the latter
> which I used only with NetBSD.
> 
> I originally installed FreeBSD 9.0-BETA1 using bsdinstall on the USB
> stick, including the ports.
> 
> There was a conflict when I ran "portsnap fetch update", that didn't
> work. I had to run "portsnap fetch" and "portsnap extract", scrapping
> the ports tree from bsdinstall in favor of the fresh ports tree. So
> now I know best to not install ports tree from bsdinstall; this would
> presumably apply for sysinstall too.

I guess 'portsnap fetch update' is run only after the ports tree is
there. For a fresh install of the ports tree, 'portsnap fetch extract'
is the correct way. For me, I only pull the ports tree with 'portsnap'.
That way, I can complete a fresh install of FreeBSD in less than 20
minutes.

> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 



-- 
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their hearts and minds will follow.
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Re: file system on 9.0

[Thomas Mueller]

from darc...@gmail.com (Denise H. G.):

> I strongly advise that /usr and /usr/local reside on different
> partitions. Furthermore, If you plan to run a desktop environment, your
> /usr/local should be big enough, say 8G - 10G, to hold all stuff you
> built from the ports. And putting /var on a separate partitiion is a
> good idea, I think.
 
> You can find detailed information on how to lay out and size your
> partitions in tuning(7) either locally or online.

The one directory I really want to put on a separate partition is /home .
That way, you can fully rebuild/redo your system and keep user data.

I don't like to put /var on a separate partition because of the danger of 
running short of space.
I had nervous moments when running freebsd-update on the older computer and 
seeing the used part of /var grow.

I don't really see a need to put /usr/local on a separate partition, though 
conceivably you could build applications with both FreeBSD ports and NetBSD 
pkgsrc, but keep these separate.  NetBSD pkgsrc has been ported to other 
(quasi-)Unixes including FreeBSD.  Default directory corresponding to FreeBSD's 
/usr/local is /usr/pkg .

I think I like FreeBSD ports better than NetBSD pkgsrc, the latter which I used 
only with NetBSD.

I originally installed FreeBSD 9.0-BETA1 using bsdinstall on the USB stick, 
including the ports.

There was a conflict when I ran "portsnap fetch update", that didn't work.  I 
had to run "portsnap fetch" and "portsnap extract", scrapping the ports tree 
from bsdinstall in favor of the fresh ports tree.  So now I know best to not 
install ports tree from bsdinstall; this would presumably apply for sysinstall 
too.

Tom

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Re: file system on 9.0

[Denise H. G.]

On 2011/11/19 at 23:03, ajtiM  wrote:
> 
> On Saturday 19 November 2011 06:29:40 Denise H. G. wrote:
>> On 2011/11/19 at 20:09, ajtiM  wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> > One more question before I start installing FreeBSD 9.0 RC-2.
>> > Now we have a new bsdinstall and as I red and if I understood correct
>> > there is also SU journaling file sistem. I will switch to the GPT
>> > partion. If I want to have SU-j file system is it enough that I just
>> > choose this option and voila?
>> 
>> Yes. I think so. 'options UFS_GJOURNAL' is present in GENERIC kernel
>> config. If you use GENERIC kernel, it is there.
>> 
>> > And another question is about ports. There is an option "ports tree"
>> > which is marked default. It is okay that I use this later with portsnap?
>> 
>> Sure. portsnap is designed to work with the ports tree.
> Thank you and one more, please...
> 
> Partitioning: if I choose guided than I got:
> freebsd-boot
> freebsd-ufs /
> freebsd-swap
> 
> If I press "enter" on freebsd-ufs / than I got options to make moe 
> partitions. 
> Is it okay that I make /, /var, /tmp and /usr as I have now.

I strongly advise that /usr and /usr/local reside on different
partitions. Furthermore, If you plan to run a desktop environment, your
/usr/local should be big enough, say 8G - 10G, to hold all stuff you
built from the ports. And putting /var on a separate partitiion is a
good idea, I think.

You can find detailed information on how to lay out and size your
partitions in tuning(7) either locally or online.

> 
> Thank you very much for the help.
> 
> 
> Mitja
>  

Regards.

-- 
If you've got them by the balls,
their hearts and minds will follow.
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Re: file system on 9.0

[Denise H. G.]

On 2011/11/19 at 21:18, RW  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:29:40 +0800
> Denise H. G. wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 2011/11/19 at 20:09, ajtiM  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Hi!
>> > One more question before I start installing FreeBSD 9.0 RC-2.
>> > Now we have a new bsdinstall and as I red and if I understood
>> > correct there is also SU journaling file sistem. I will switch to
>> > the GPT partion. If I want to have SU-j file system is it enough
>> > that I just choose this option and voila?
>> 
>> Yes. I think so. 'options UFS_GJOURNAL' is present in GENERIC kernel
>> config. If you use GENERIC kernel, it is there.
> 
> UFS_GJOURNAL is for gjournal not soft-update journalling. 
> 
> A file system doesn't actually need to be created with either
> soft-updates or soft-update journalling- it's something that can be
> turned of and on. And yes enabling it in the installer should be
> sufficient.
> 

Thanks for clarifying. 

>> > And another question is about ports. There is an option "ports
>> > tree" which is marked default. It is okay that I use this later
>> > with portsnap?
>> 
>> Sure. portsnap is designed to work with the ports tree.
> 
> There's no point in installing the default tree since portsnap has to
> do an initial "extract". In general I'd suggest starting portsnap on an
> empty ports directory just to eliminate any minor cruft.

Yes. the ports tree on the installation CD/DVD is always old and only
takes longer time to install than without them.

>  



-- 
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their hearts and minds will follow.
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Re: file system on 9.0

[ajtiM]

On Saturday 19 November 2011 06:29:40 Denise H. G. wrote:
> On 2011/11/19 at 20:09, ajtiM  wrote:
> > Hi!
> > One more question before I start installing FreeBSD 9.0 RC-2.
> > Now we have a new bsdinstall and as I red and if I understood correct
> > there is also SU journaling file sistem. I will switch to the GPT
> > partion. If I want to have SU-j file system is it enough that I just
> > choose this option and voila?
> 
> Yes. I think so. 'options UFS_GJOURNAL' is present in GENERIC kernel
> config. If you use GENERIC kernel, it is there.
> 
> > And another question is about ports. There is an option "ports tree"
> > which is marked default. It is okay that I use this later with portsnap?
> 
> Sure. portsnap is designed to work with the ports tree.
Thank you and one more, please...

Partitioning: if I choose guided than I got:
freebsd-boot
freebsd-ufs /
freebsd-swap

If I press "enter" on freebsd-ufs / than I got options to make moe partitions. 
Is it okay that I make /, /var, /tmp and /usr as I have now.

Thank you very much for the help.


Mitja

http://jpgmag.com/people/lumiwa
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Re: file system on 9.0

[RW]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:29:40 +0800
Denise H. G. wrote:

> 
> On 2011/11/19 at 20:09, ajtiM  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi!
> > One more question before I start installing FreeBSD 9.0 RC-2.
> > Now we have a new bsdinstall and as I red and if I understood
> > correct there is also SU journaling file sistem. I will switch to
> > the GPT partion. If I want to have SU-j file system is it enough
> > that I just choose this option and voila?
> 
> Yes. I think so. 'options UFS_GJOURNAL' is present in GENERIC kernel
> config. If you use GENERIC kernel, it is there.

UFS_GJOURNAL is for gjournal not soft-update journalling. 

A file system doesn't actually need to be created with either
soft-updates or soft-update journalling- it's something that can be
turned of and on. And yes enabling it in the installer should be
sufficient.

> > And another question is about ports. There is an option "ports
> > tree" which is marked default. It is okay that I use this later
> > with portsnap?
> 
> Sure. portsnap is designed to work with the ports tree.

There's no point in installing the default tree since portsnap has to
do an initial "extract". In general I'd suggest starting portsnap on an
empty ports directory just to eliminate any minor cruft.
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Re: file system on 9.0

[Denise H. G.]

On 2011/11/19 at 20:09, ajtiM  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> One more question before I start installing FreeBSD 9.0 RC-2.
> Now we have a new bsdinstall and as I red and if I understood correct there 
> is 
> also SU journaling file sistem. I will switch to the GPT partion. If I want 
> to 
> have SU-j file system is it enough that I just choose this option and voila?

Yes. I think so. 'options UFS_GJOURNAL' is present in GENERIC kernel
config. If you use GENERIC kernel, it is there.

> And another question is about ports. There is an option "ports tree" which is 
> marked default. It is okay that I use this later with portsnap?

Sure. portsnap is designed to work with the ports tree.

> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Mitja
> 
> http://jpgmag.com/people/lumiwa
>  



-- 
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their hearts and minds will follow.
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[c0re]

2011/2/28 Robert Bonomi :
>> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Mon Feb 28 05:31:46 2011
>> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:24:30 +0300
>> From: c0re 
>> To: Matthew Seaman 
>> Cc: FreeBSD 
>> Subject: Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full
>>
>> 2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
>> > On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
>> >> # df -h
>> >> Filesystem     Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
>> >> /dev/ad0s1a    496M    466M   -9.8M   102%    /
>> >>
>> >> So it's full.
>> >>
>> >> But by du it's not appeared to be full
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> # du -hxd 1 /
>> >> 2.0K    /.snap
>> >> 512B    /dev
>> >> 2.0K    /tmp
>> >> 2.0K    /usr
>> >> 2.0K    /var
>> >> 1.9M    /etc
>> >> 2.0K    /cdrom
>> >> 2.0K    /dist
>> >> 1.0M    /bin
>> >> 131M    /boot
>> >>  10M    /lib
>> >> 356K    /libexec
>> >> 2.0K    /media
>> >>  12K    /mnt
>> >> 2.0K    /proc
>> >> 7.2M    /rescue
>> >> 296K    /root
>> >> 4.7M    /sbin
>> >> 4.0K    /lost+found
>> >> 157M    /
>> >>
>> >
>> > Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the
>> > output of your du command change if you unmount those partitions? (It
>> > might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1) lives
>> > in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
>> >
>> > My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
>> > usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
>> > files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
>> >
>> >        Cheers,
>> >
>> >        Matthew
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.                   7 Priory Courtyard
>> >                                                  Flat 3
>> > PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey     Ramsgate JID:
>> > matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk               Kent, CT11 9PW
>> >
>> >
>>
>> At last I found time to check it. Booted with frenzy life cd, mounted
>> only / partition and saw trash
>> /var/spool. Deleted it and it solved problem.
>> But later was and idea to mount device of / (/dev/da0s1a) as /mnt/root
>> and just delete those files without need of livecd. It works in Linux.
>> But in freebsd i got
>>
>> # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
>> mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
>>
>> So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.
>
> *NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
> umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.
>

Yeah, not true.

Checked with lsof /var and it was used by these daemons:

devd
syslogd
rpcbind
snmpd
mysqld
httpd
sendmail
cron

Yes, I can stop them all,  but was not sure about stopping devd...
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Arthur Chance]

On 02/28/11 12:47, Polytropon wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:29:59 +0100, Damien Fleuriot  wrote:

Slice a (as in: da0s1a) is very likely his /

/var is usually slice f


Terminology: Slices are with numbers, partitions are with letters. :-)

E. g. da0s1 is the FreeBSD slice, its partition a = da0s1a is /,
while /var corresponds to partition da0s1f.


Unless you've got GPT disks where there are usually only partitions and 
they're numbered:


arthur@fileserver> gpart show ada5
=>   34  976773101  ada5  GPT  (466G)
 34  6- free -  (3.0K)
 40 64 1  freebsd-boot  (32K)
1042097152 2  freebsd-ufs  (1.0G)
20972562097152 3  freebsd-ufs  (1.0G)
41944088388608 4  freebsd-swap  (4.0G)
   12583016  964190119 5  freebsd-ufs  (460G)

arthur@fileserver> ls /dev/ada5*
/dev/ada5   /dev/ada5p1 /dev/ada5p2 /dev/ada5p3 /dev/ada5p4 
/dev/ada5p5

Personally I prefer labelling everything, which GPT makes easier.
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:29:59 +0100, Damien Fleuriot  wrote:
> Slice a (as in: da0s1a) is very likely his /
> 
> /var is usually slice f

Terminology: Slices are with numbers, partitions are with letters. :-)

E. g. da0s1 is the FreeBSD slice, its partition a = da0s1a is /,
while /var corresponds to partition da0s1f.


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Chris Rees]

On 28 February 2011 12:29, Damien Fleuriot  wrote:
> On 2/28/11 1:27 PM, Chris Rees wrote:
>> On 28 February 2011 12:26, Chris Rees  wrote:
>
> # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
> mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
>
> So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.

 *NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
 umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.
>>>
>>> umount /   ???
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> Er, caffeine overdose.
>>
>> I guess you meant:
>>
>> # umount /var
> Slice a (as in: da0s1a) is very likely his /
>
> /var is usually slice f

Yeah, that's why I sent the first email.

However, it's now clear to me that c0re wanted to remount his / on a
different partition to delete a file hidden by /var.

Hence the suggestion from Robert to umount /var.

Chris
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Damien Fleuriot]

On 2/28/11 1:27 PM, Chris Rees wrote:
> On 28 February 2011 12:26, Chris Rees  wrote:

 # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
 mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted

 So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.
>>>
>>> *NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
>>> umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.
>>
>> umount /   ???
>>
>> Chris
> 
> Er, caffeine overdose.
> 
> I guess you meant:
> 
> # umount /var
> 
> 
> 
> I'll hide now.
> 
> Chris


Slice a (as in: da0s1a) is very likely his /

/var is usually slice f
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Chris Rees]

On 28 February 2011 12:26, Chris Rees  wrote:
>> >
>> > # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
>> > mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
>> >
>> > So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.
>>
>> *NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
>> umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.
>
> umount /   ???
>
> Chris

Er, caffeine overdose.

I guess you meant:

# umount /var



I'll hide now.

Chris
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Damien Fleuriot]

On 2/28/11 12:24 PM, c0re wrote:
> 2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
>> On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
>>> # df -h
>>> Filesystem SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
>>> /dev/ad0s1a496M466M   -9.8M   102%/
>>>
>>> So it's full.
>>>
>>> But by du it's not appeared to be full
>>>
>>>
>>> # du -hxd 1 /
>>> 2.0K/.snap
>>> 512B/dev
>>> 2.0K/tmp
>>> 2.0K/usr
>>> 2.0K/var
>>> 1.9M/etc
>>> 2.0K/cdrom
>>> 2.0K/dist
>>> 1.0M/bin
>>> 131M/boot
>>>  10M/lib
>>> 356K/libexec
>>> 2.0K/media
>>>  12K/mnt
>>> 2.0K/proc
>>> 7.2M/rescue
>>> 296K/root
>>> 4.7M/sbin
>>> 4.0K/lost+found
>>> 157M/
>>>
>>
>> Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the output
>> of your du command change if you unmount those partitions?
>> (It might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1)
>> lives in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
>>
>> My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
>> usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
>> files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Matthew
>>
>> --
>> Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
>>  Flat 3
>> PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
>> JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW
>>
>>
> 
> At last I found time to check it.
> Booted with frenzy life cd, mounted only / partition and saw trash
> /var/spool. Deleted it and it solved problem.
> But later was and idea to mount device of / (/dev/da0s1a) as /mnt/root
> and just delete those files without need of livecd. It works in Linux.
> But in freebsd i got
> 
> # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
> mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
> 
> So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.
> 
> Thanks Matthew for an idea!


You're not really trying to umount / on a running system are you ?
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Chris Rees]

On 28 Feb 2011 12:12, "Robert Bonomi"  wrote:
>
> > From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Mon Feb 28 05:31:46 2011
> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:24:30 +0300
> > From: c0re 
> > To: Matthew Seaman 
> > Cc: FreeBSD 
> > Subject: Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full
> >
> > 2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
> > > On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
> > >> # df -h
> > >> Filesystem SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> > >> /dev/ad0s1a496M466M   -9.8M   102%/
> > >>
> > >> So it's full.
> > >>
> > >> But by du it's not appeared to be full
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> # du -hxd 1 /
> > >> 2.0K/.snap
> > >> 512B/dev
> > >> 2.0K/tmp
> > >> 2.0K/usr
> > >> 2.0K/var
> > >> 1.9M/etc
> > >> 2.0K/cdrom
> > >> 2.0K/dist
> > >> 1.0M/bin
> > >> 131M/boot
> > >>  10M/lib
> > >> 356K/libexec
> > >> 2.0K/media
> > >>  12K/mnt
> > >> 2.0K/proc
> > >> 7.2M/rescue
> > >> 296K/root
> > >> 4.7M/sbin
> > >> 4.0K/lost+found
> > >> 157M/
> > >>
> > >
> > > Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the
> > > output of your du command change if you unmount those partitions? (It
> > > might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1)
lives
> > > in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
> > >
> > > My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
> > > usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
> > > files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >
> > >Matthew
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
> > >  Flat 3
> > > PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID:
> > > matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW
> > >
> > >
> >
> > At last I found time to check it. Booted with frenzy life cd, mounted
> > only / partition and saw trash
> > /var/spool. Deleted it and it solved problem.
> > But later was and idea to mount device of / (/dev/da0s1a) as /mnt/root
> > and just delete those files without need of livecd. It works in Linux.
> > But in freebsd i got
> >
> > # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
> > mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
> >
> > So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.
>
> *NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
> umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.
>
>
>

umount /   ???

Chris
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Mon Feb 28 05:31:46 2011
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:24:30 +0300
> From: c0re 
> To: Matthew Seaman 
> Cc: FreeBSD 
> Subject: Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full
>
> 2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
> > On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
> >> # df -h
> >> Filesystem SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> >> /dev/ad0s1a496M466M   -9.8M   102%/
> >>
> >> So it's full.
> >>
> >> But by du it's not appeared to be full
> >>
> >>
> >> # du -hxd 1 /
> >> 2.0K/.snap
> >> 512B/dev
> >> 2.0K/tmp
> >> 2.0K/usr
> >> 2.0K/var
> >> 1.9M/etc
> >> 2.0K/cdrom
> >> 2.0K/dist
> >> 1.0M/bin
> >> 131M/boot
> >>  10M/lib
> >> 356K/libexec
> >> 2.0K/media
> >>  12K/mnt
> >> 2.0K/proc
> >> 7.2M/rescue
> >> 296K/root
> >> 4.7M/sbin
> >> 4.0K/lost+found
> >> 157M/
> >>
> >
> > Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the 
> > output of your du command change if you unmount those partitions? (It 
> > might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1) lives 
> > in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
> >
> > My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is 
> > usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those 
> > files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Matthew
> >
> > --
> > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
> >  Flat 3
> > PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: 
> > matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW
> >
> >
>
> At last I found time to check it. Booted with frenzy life cd, mounted 
> only / partition and saw trash
> /var/spool. Deleted it and it solved problem.
> But later was and idea to mount device of / (/dev/da0s1a) as /mnt/root 
> and just delete those files without need of livecd. It works in Linux. 
> But in freebsd i got
>
> # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
> mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted
>
> So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.

*NOT* true.  Stopping any daemons that were using "/var/spooll", and then
umount(1)-ing it would have done the trick from multi-user mode.


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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[c0re]

2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
> On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
>> # df -h
>> Filesystem     Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
>> /dev/ad0s1a    496M    466M   -9.8M   102%    /
>>
>> So it's full.
>>
>> But by du it's not appeared to be full
>>
>>
>> # du -hxd 1 /
>> 2.0K    /.snap
>> 512B    /dev
>> 2.0K    /tmp
>> 2.0K    /usr
>> 2.0K    /var
>> 1.9M    /etc
>> 2.0K    /cdrom
>> 2.0K    /dist
>> 1.0M    /bin
>> 131M    /boot
>>  10M    /lib
>> 356K    /libexec
>> 2.0K    /media
>>  12K    /mnt
>> 2.0K    /proc
>> 7.2M    /rescue
>> 296K    /root
>> 4.7M    /sbin
>> 4.0K    /lost+found
>> 157M    /
>>
>
> Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the output
> of your du command change if you unmount those partitions?
> (It might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1)
> lives in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
>
> My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
> usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
> files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
>
>        Cheers,
>
>        Matthew
>
> --
> Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.                   7 Priory Courtyard
>                                                  Flat 3
> PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey     Ramsgate
> JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk               Kent, CT11 9PW
>
>

At last I found time to check it.
Booted with frenzy life cd, mounted only / partition and saw trash
/var/spool. Deleted it and it solved problem.
But later was and idea to mount device of / (/dev/da0s1a) as /mnt/root
and just delete those files without need of livecd. It works in Linux.
But in freebsd i got

# mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt/root/
mount: /dev/da0s1a : Operation not permitted

So only single user mode or live cd could solve it.

Thanks Matthew for an idea!
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Peter Vereshagin]

Concrete jungle, oh freebsd-questions, you've got to do your best...
2011/01/06 17:19:05 +0300 c0re  => To FreeBSD :
cr> > Another place to look for wasted space is filesystem snapshots, if any. 
They
cr> > can be created implicitly, e. g., by fsck.
cr> Yeah, I checked /.snap - nothing there.

snapshot is represented as a file of a special type that can be located
anywhere oin a file system, not only the /.snap/. Try snainfo -a.

73! Peter pgp: A0E26627 (4A42 6841 2871 5EA7 52AB  12F8 0CE1 4AAC A0E2 6627)
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Svein Skogen (Listmail account)]

On 06.01.2011 15:19, c0re wrote:
>> why not to restart your httpd and mysqld?
>> This may release your unused filehandles.
> As I said I've restarted whole server, so nothing there to release at all.
> 
>> Another place to look for wasted space is filesystem snapshots, if any. They
>> can be created implicitly, e. g., by fsck.
> Yeah, I checked /.snap - nothing there.

Reboot into single user mode, and check with du -hs /* before the system
mounts other FS'es than /

//Svein

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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[c0re]

> why not to restart your httpd and mysqld?
> This may release your unused filehandles.
As I said I've restarted whole server, so nothing there to release at all.

> Another place to look for wasted space is filesystem snapshots, if any. They
> can be created implicitly, e. g., by fsck.
Yeah, I checked /.snap - nothing there.

> And... why lsof and not fstat(1)?
As I mentioned - fstat does not show full path including filename like
lsof does.
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Chris Rees]

Server has been rebooted before to try this.

Chris



Sorry for top-posting, Android won't let me quote, but K-9 can't yet do
threading.
On 6 Jan 2011 14:06, "Peter Vereshagin"  wrote:
> Concrete jungle, oh freebsd-questions, you've got to do your best...
> 2011/01/06 16:57:34 +0300 Peter Vereshagin  => To
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org :
> PV> This may release your unused filehandles.
>
> used but unlinked, really, oops.
>
> 73! Peter pgp: A0E26627 (4A42 6841 2871 5EA7 52AB 12F8 0CE1 4AAC A0E2
6627)
> --
> http://vereshagin.org
> ___
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Peter Vereshagin]

Concrete jungle, oh freebsd-questions, you've got to do your best...
2011/01/06 16:57:34 +0300 Peter Vereshagin  => To 
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org :
PV> This may release your unused filehandles.

used but unlinked, really, oops.

73! Peter pgp: A0E26627 (4A42 6841 2871 5EA7 52AB  12F8 0CE1 4AAC A0E2 6627)
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Peter Vereshagin]

Concrete jungle, oh freebsd-questions, you've got to do your best...
2011/01/06 15:06:18 +0300 c0re  => To FreeBSD :

cr> # lsof /

why not to restart your httpd and mysqld?
This may release your unused filehandles.
Another place to look for wasted space is filesystem snapshots, if any. They
can be created implicitly, e. g., by fsck.
And... why lsof and not fstat(1)?

73! Peter pgp: A0E26627 (4A42 6841 2871 5EA7 52AB  12F8 0CE1 4AAC A0E2 6627)
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[c0re]

2011/1/6 Matthew Seaman :
> On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
>> # df -h
>> Filesystem     Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
>> /dev/ad0s1a    496M    466M   -9.8M   102%    /
>>
>> So it's full.
>>
>> But by du it's not appeared to be full
>>
>>
>> # du -hxd 1 /
>> 2.0K    /.snap
>> 512B    /dev
>> 2.0K    /tmp
>> 2.0K    /usr
>> 2.0K    /var
>> 1.9M    /etc
>> 2.0K    /cdrom
>> 2.0K    /dist
>> 1.0M    /bin
>> 131M    /boot
>>  10M    /lib
>> 356K    /libexec
>> 2.0K    /media
>>  12K    /mnt
>> 2.0K    /proc
>> 7.2M    /rescue
>> 296K    /root
>> 4.7M    /sbin
>> 4.0K    /lost+found
>> 157M    /
>>
>
> Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the output
> of your du command change if you unmount those partitions?
> (It might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1)
> lives in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)
>
> My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
> usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
> files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.
>
>        Cheers,
>
>        Matthew
>
> --
> Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.                   7 Priory Courtyard
>                                                  Flat 3
> PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey     Ramsgate
> JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk               Kent, CT11 9PW
>
>

Nice idea! But I can't check it now - server is may hundred km away
and no KVM aviable. Will check it 1 or 2 weeks later. Checked only
/tmp - it was ok, no files there after unmount.
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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[c0re]

2011/1/6 Ryan Coleman :
> What about filehandlers?
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 5:26 AM, c0re wrote:
>
>> # df -h
>> Filesystem     Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
>> /dev/ad0s1a    496M    466M   -9.8M   102%    /
>>
>> So it's full.
>>
>> But by du it's not appeared to be full
>>
>>
>> # du -hxd 1 /
>> 2.0K    /.snap
>> 512B    /dev
>> 2.0K    /tmp
>> 2.0K    /usr
>> 2.0K    /var
>> 1.9M    /etc
>> 2.0K    /cdrom
>> 2.0K    /dist
>> 1.0M    /bin
>> 131M    /boot
>> 10M    /lib
>> 356K    /libexec
>> 2.0K    /media
>> 12K    /mnt
>> 2.0K    /proc
>> 7.2M    /rescue
>> 296K    /root
>> 4.7M    /sbin
>> 4.0K    /lost+found
>> 157M    /
>>
>>
>> I know that something (like running process) can hold file so it's
>> actually are not deleted. I rebooted server. But this not helped, so
>> it's not a process holding file.
>>
>> Checked with fsck
>>
>> # fsck /
>> ** /dev/ad0s1a (NO WRITE)
>> ** Last Mounted on /
>> ** Root file system
>> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
>> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
>> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
>> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
>> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
>> 47268 files, 238539 used, 15276 free (6684 frags, 1074 blocks, 2.6%
>> fragmentation)
>>
>> No problems here.
>>
>>
>> # uname -a
>> FreeBSD host.domain.com 7.3-RELEASE-p4 FreeBSD 7.3-RELEASE-p4 #0: Tue
>> Dec 28 13:55:47 MSK 2010
>> r...@host.domain.com:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MYKERNEL  i386
>>
>> What's the problem here? Why df says that filesystem is full? Other
>> command may also say that can't write because file system is full.
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>
>

fstat does not show full filepath so I uses lsof from ports
lsof does not show anything criminal

# lsof /
COMMANDPID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF  NODE NAME
init 1   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
init 1   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
init 1   root  txt   VREG   0,81   632348 33074 /sbin/init
firmware 5   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
firmware 5   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
adjkerntz  145   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
adjkerntz  145   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
adjkerntz  145   root  txt   VREG   0,81 7448 16481 /sbin/adjkerntz
adjkerntz  145   root  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
adjkerntz  145   root  txt   VREG   0,81  1067248 50739 /lib/libc.so.7
devd   487   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
devd   487   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
devd   487   root  txt   VREG   0,81   369684 32969 /sbin/devd
syslogd564   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
syslogd564   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
syslogd564   root  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
syslogd564   root  txt   VREG   0,8155240 50747 /lib/libutil.so.7
syslogd564   root  txt   VREG   0,81  1067248 50739 /lib/libc.so.7
rpcbind650   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
rpcbind650   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
rpcbind650   root  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
rpcbind650   root  txt   VREG   0,8155240 50747 /lib/libutil.so.7
rpcbind650   root  txt   VREG   0,81  1067248 50739 /lib/libc.so.7
snmpd  690   root  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
snmpd  690   root  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,8132024 50740 /lib/libcrypt.so.4
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,8155240 50747 /lib/libutil.so.7
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,8192720 50743 /lib/libm.so.5
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,8129916 50741 /lib/libkvm.so.4
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,8118788 50761 /lib/libdevstat.so.6
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,81  1417668 50595 /lib/libcrypto.so.5
snmpd  690   root  txt   VREG   0,81  1067248 50739 /lib/libc.so.7
sh 751  mysql  cwd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
sh 751  mysql  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
sh 751  mysql  txt   VREG   0,81   115388 33069 /bin/sh
sh 751  mysql  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
sh 751  mysql  txt   VREG   0,8188492 50751 /lib/libedit.so.6
sh 751  mysql  txt   VREG   0,81   261484 50738 /lib/libncurses.so.7
sh 751  mysql  txt   VREG   0,81  1067248 50739 /lib/libc.so.7
mysqld 800  mysql  rtd   VDIR   0,81  512 2 /
mysqld 800  mysql  txt   VREG   0,81   189172 50770 /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
mysqld 800  mysql  txt   VREG   0,8164300 49385 /lib/libz.so.3
mysqld 800  mysql  txt   VREG   0,8128768 58494 /lib/libcrypt.so.3
mysqld 800  mysql  txt   VREG   0,8195120 49378 /lib

Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Matthew Seaman]

On 06/01/2011 11:26, c0re wrote:
> # df -h
> Filesystem SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> /dev/ad0s1a496M466M   -9.8M   102%/
> 
> So it's full.
> 
> But by du it's not appeared to be full
> 
> 
> # du -hxd 1 /
> 2.0K/.snap
> 512B/dev
> 2.0K/tmp
> 2.0K/usr
> 2.0K/var
> 1.9M/etc
> 2.0K/cdrom
> 2.0K/dist
> 1.0M/bin
> 131M/boot
>  10M/lib
> 356K/libexec
> 2.0K/media
>  12K/mnt
> 2.0K/proc
> 7.2M/rescue
> 296K/root
> 4.7M/sbin
> 4.0K/lost+found
> 157M/
> 

Do you have partitions mounted at /tmp, /usr, /var etc?  Does the output
of your du command change if you unmount those partitions?
(It might be an idea to boot into a livefs CD or DVD given that du(1)
lives in /usr/bin, so a bit tricky to unmount /usr and then run du)

My guess is that you've at one time created files beneath what is
usually a mount point.  Mounting the partition over them makes those
files inaccessible, but they still take up space on the drive.

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk   Kent, CT11 9PW



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Re: / file system is full, but du does not show that it's full

[Ryan Coleman]

What about filehandlers?

On Jan 6, 2011, at 5:26 AM, c0re wrote:

> # df -h
> Filesystem SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> /dev/ad0s1a496M466M   -9.8M   102%/
> 
> So it's full.
> 
> But by du it's not appeared to be full
> 
> 
> # du -hxd 1 /
> 2.0K/.snap
> 512B/dev
> 2.0K/tmp
> 2.0K/usr
> 2.0K/var
> 1.9M/etc
> 2.0K/cdrom
> 2.0K/dist
> 1.0M/bin
> 131M/boot
> 10M/lib
> 356K/libexec
> 2.0K/media
> 12K/mnt
> 2.0K/proc
> 7.2M/rescue
> 296K/root
> 4.7M/sbin
> 4.0K/lost+found
> 157M/
> 
> 
> I know that something (like running process) can hold file so it's
> actually are not deleted. I rebooted server. But this not helped, so
> it's not a process holding file.
> 
> Checked with fsck
> 
> # fsck /
> ** /dev/ad0s1a (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /
> ** Root file system
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 47268 files, 238539 used, 15276 free (6684 frags, 1074 blocks, 2.6%
> fragmentation)
> 
> No problems here.
> 
> 
> # uname -a
> FreeBSD host.domain.com 7.3-RELEASE-p4 FreeBSD 7.3-RELEASE-p4 #0: Tue
> Dec 28 13:55:47 MSK 2010
> r...@host.domain.com:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MYKERNEL  i386
> 
> What's the problem here? Why df says that filesystem is full? Other
> command may also say that can't write because file system is full.
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Re: File System Performance on FreeBSD

[Mihai Donțu]

On Sunday 08 August 2010 20:55:40 Antonio Vieiro wrote:
> I don't mind if a filesystem is very fast: I want it to be reliable
> first. I wonder if that Phoronix test suite checks for reliability first
> or not.

https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Ext4_Howto#Barriers_on_by_default

Since it has been declared stable, the performance of ext4 has dropped due to 
various reliability fixes, culminating with the making of write barriers a 
default.

More info here: http://lwn.net/Articles/283161/

-- 
Mihai Donțu
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Re: File System Performance on FreeBSD

[Antonio Vieiro]

Hi,

I heard that Linux filesystems were not reliable because of some bad way 
of doing caching or something like that.


For a study on Linux FS reliability see [1] by Toshiba guys. It seems 
Linux was upset on this about one year ago [2]. Quoting:


"Torvalds, for one, didn't seem too excited about the delayed 
synchronization. He writes on the mailing list, "Doesn't at least ext4 
default to the insane model of 'data is less important than metadata, 
and it doesn't get journalled'? And ext3 with 'data=writeback' does the 
same, no? Both of which are -- as far as I can tell -- total brain damage."


I don't mind if a filesystem is very fast: I want it to be reliable 
first. I wonder if that Phoronix test suite checks for reliability first 
or not.


Cheers,
Antonio

[1] elinux.org/images/2/26/Evaluation_of_Data_Reliability-ELC2010.pdf
[2] 
http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Linus-Torvalds-Upset-over-Ext3-and-Ext4



On 08/08/2010 19:22, Bruce Cran wrote:

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:13:46 -0400
Bill Moran  wrote:


To someone technical who might be looking to investigate the results
with an eye toward fixing them, it's useless.


Anyone can download the Phoronix Test Suite though, so it should be
fairly easy to check if the results are valid at least.



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Re: File System Performance on FreeBSD

[Adam Vande More]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Bill Moran wrote:

> On 8/8/10 10:03:59 AM, Kiswono Prayogo wrote:
>
>> Is there any justification for this benchmark?
>>
>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=zfs_ext4_btrfs&num=2
>> 
>>
>
> I'm sure there are Linux people who will be shouting about this all
> over the place.  But to the casual observer, all this tells you is
> that Linux's filesystems _may_ be faster for short, bursty work.
>
>
Here's a more detailed explanation.

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2010-June/032031.html



-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: File System Performance on FreeBSD

[Bruce Cran]

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:13:46 -0400
Bill Moran  wrote:

> To someone technical who might be looking to investigate the results
> with an eye toward fixing them, it's useless.

Anyone can download the Phoronix Test Suite though, so it should be
fairly easy to check if the results are valid at least.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: File System Performance on FreeBSD

[Bill Moran]

On 8/8/10 10:03:59 AM, Kiswono Prayogo wrote:

Is there any justification for this benchmark?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=zfs_ext4_btrfs&num=2



Kind of hard to do much with that "benchmark"  First off:
* Does the author even know what he's doing?  All that article does is
  display the charts, then tell you what the chart says.  The author
  shows no understanding of what's going on.
* He's running the tests on a laptop.
* He had a single disk/partition, which was the same disk/partition that
  he was running the OS off.  The difference in speed might have been
  the result of different software being installed on the different OS
  that was competing for disk usage.
* All of his tests involve tiny amounts of data and/or extremely quick
  run times (less than 30s).  On a system with 4G of ram, the different
  caching policies on the different FS can have a huge difference on the
  results.  While it's interesting to study those caching differences,
  it's not anywhere indicative of overall FS performance.  Let him run
  one of those tests for 5 mins and see if the results are still the
  same.

But, most importantly, his benchmarks are useless for any productive
use.

He doesn't describe the tests he's doing with enough detail for anyone
else to attempt to reproduce them and attempt to address the problem.
What does he mean by "gzip test"?  Can I see the command line parameters
involved?  How many runs of each test did he do?  What other programs
were accessing the disk at the time?  What other programs were
_running_?  There's nothing wrong with PC-BSD, but it installs a lot
of stuff at install time -- there may be programs running that are
hurting the results that aren't running on Ubuntu.  Since that was a
laptop, what is the powersave policy for the disks in each case?  Did
he do a single run of each test?  That produces the most unreliable
results ever.

Overall, it's just sloppy reporting if you ask me.  For all I know,
he actually did a really good job of making sure that everything was
set up to be fair, but the article doesn't say that.  It's pretty
typical of most reporting, not enough depth or care to be useful.

I'm sure there are Linux people who will be shouting about this all
over the place.  But to the casual observer, all this tells you is
that Linux's filesystems _may_ be faster for short, bursty work.

To someone technical who might be looking to investigate the results
with an eye toward fixing them, it's useless.

--
Bill Moran
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Re: File system

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

Eitan Adler wrote:

gjournal will replay all write attempts

(metadata and data) before the failure, so you should be relatively
sure that all writes are done correctly.


As I understand it journals work by writing to disk a log of all the
changes that have to be made - waits for confirmation that it wrote
the data - and then attempts to make those changes. If after the
confirmation there is a crash the log file is replayed.
Certain virtual machines will report to the OS that it wrote the data
to disk before it actually does so. In that case journaling doesn't
actually help as the log file is still not on some form of stable
storage.



I am not an expert on the subject, I thought the journal will replay all 
logged write attempts and since the number of all write attempts logged 
in the journal will be much bigger than the number of requests a cache 
can hold you will be sure that all writes will be done on the 
filesystem. Again, I am not an expert on the subject...


Nikos
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Re: File system

[Eitan Adler]

gjournal will replay all write attempts
> (metadata and data) before the failure, so you should be relatively
> sure that all writes are done correctly.

As I understand it journals work by writing to disk a log of all the
changes that have to be made - waits for confirmation that it wrote
the data - and then attempts to make those changes. If after the
confirmation there is a crash the log file is replayed.
Certain virtual machines will report to the OS that it wrote the data
to disk before it actually does so. In that case journaling doesn't
actually help as the log file is still not on some form of stable
storage.
--
Eitan Adler
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Re: File system

[Randi Harper]

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Robert Bonomi  wrote:

> 2) You could try using a 'journaling' filesystem, *BUT* you'd have to build/
>   implement it yourself.  Journaling filesystems are deliberately _not_
>   provided with FreeBSD, due to security issues/implications with them.
>   _You_ will have to decide if the security risks in *your* envrionment are
>   worth the (limited) benefits.

Really? Where do you get your information? Seriously, loling so hard
right now. There's been a lot of work within FreeBSD to add journaling
to UFS2. I guess we just don't care about security anymore.

-- randi
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Re: File system

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

Craig Whipp wrote:

On Mon, May 10, 2010 10:53 am, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

Ansar Mohammed wrote:

Hello All,
I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.

When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.

Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont
crap
out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?

I am really surprised no one proposed geom journaling. With gjournal,
I never had to do a manual full fsck and have had plenty of unclean
shutdowns. I also occasionally do fsck the filesystem and there were
no errors ever found. It definitely adds the ease factor I am looking
for in a journaling sollution in the case of an unclean shutdown...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this FreeBSD install is running inside
of a VM, in addition to any of the precautions suggested here to get data
written or journaled to the disk as safely as possible, isn't there still
the issue of whether the VM actuall commits these writes to the physical
disk?


I guess the time needed for some data to be committed to stable
storage will be bigger in a VM environment. But that's always the
case, be it a VM, or a disk controller. There will be always some
data in-flight, some delay and a cache which will hold your data before
they arrive to stable storage. gjournal will replay all write attempts
(metadata and data) before the failure, so you should be relatively
sure that all writes are done correctly. I think Ansar just want to
avoid fsck and gjournal provides that. To ensure real data integrity
one should use something else, perhaps ZFS and not a journaling fs.

PS: I didn't see your message in time...

Nikos
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Re: File system

[Craig Whipp]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 10:53 am, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:
> Ansar Mohammed wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
>> shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.
>>
>> When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.
>>
>> Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont
>> crap
>> out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?
>
> I am really surprised no one proposed geom journaling. With gjournal,
> I never had to do a manual full fsck and have had plenty of unclean
> shutdowns. I also occasionally do fsck the filesystem and there were
> no errors ever found. It definitely adds the ease factor I am looking
> for in a journaling sollution in the case of an unclean shutdown...
>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this FreeBSD install is running inside
of a VM, in addition to any of the precautions suggested here to get data
written or journaled to the disk as safely as possible, isn't there still
the issue of whether the VM actuall commits these writes to the physical
disk?


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Re: File system

[Bruce Cran]

On Sunday 09 May 2010 22:51:01 Robert Bonomi wrote:

> 2) You could try using a 'journaling' filesystem, *BUT* you'd have to
> build/ implement it yourself.  Journaling filesystems are deliberately
> _not_ provided with FreeBSD, due to security issues/implications with
> them. _You_ will have to decide if the security risks in *your*
> envrionment are worth the (limited) benefits.

I've never heard of security problems with journaled filesystems - do you have 
any links to more information?

> 3) you can switch to an OS _intended_ for use by the ill-informed; where
> the provider makes all the decisions for you, and allows only what they
> think is reasonable.  BUT, such an OS isn't going to look like Unix, nor
> feel like it, nor act like it.

I think IBM would disagree with you: JFS (the Journaled File System) is 
available on AIX, which most people would consider very Unixy. I also believe 
IRIX looks very much like Unix too, despite having XFS.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: File system

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

Ansar Mohammed wrote:

Hello All,
I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.

When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.

Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont crap
out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?


I am really surprised no one proposed geom journaling. With gjournal,
I never had to do a manual full fsck and have had plenty of unclean
shutdowns. I also occasionally do fsck the filesystem and there were
no errors ever found. It definitely adds the ease factor I am looking
for in a journaling sollution in the case of an unclean shutdown...

Nikos
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Re: File system

[Robert Bonomi]

P
> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Sat May  8 21:04:45 2010
> Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:36:17 -0400
> From: Ansar Mohammed 
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: File system
>
> Hello All,
> I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
> shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.
>
> When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.
>
> Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont crap
> out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?

This is a "DDT" problem -- as in "on't o hat".
The -correct- fix is to 'change your expectations' -- and change your 
behavior.  *DO* a clean shutdown _before_ repooting the VM.  solves all your 
self-induced(!!) "problems".

Unix-type operating systems are intended for use by people who -know- what
they are doing. As such, it makes little effort to protect admins from 
_their_own_ mistakes.  Unix, and by derivation FreeBSD, _will_ "*WILLINGLY*
give you enough rope to hang yourself", if you ask for it.  This is one 
of the _strengths_ of Unix -- it does *NOT* restrict you to what 'someone
else' thinks is "reasonable".  Corollary: more 'smarts' are required on the
part of the admin, _because_ you do not have the 'restricted choices' of
"someone else's" criteria.

You can either "Do things the _right_ way", as described in the 'fine manual',
which it is _necessary_ to read, or you can persist in risky/wrong/stupid
behaviors, and 'hope for' less-than-catatstrophic results from that 'bad
behavior'.  *YOUR* choice.

That said, If you intend to persist in doing things the 'wrong way', ther
are some things you can try, to ameliorate the problems you're having:

1) You can try running with all disks restricted to 'synchronous' operations;
   This =will= keep the filesystem 'clean' _almost_ all the time, and your 
   BAD IDEA(TM) arbitrary reboots will find only minimal (if any) fsck issues.
   You _will_ pay a *tremendous* price in system performance for using this
   option, however.

2) You could try using a 'journaling' filesystem, *BUT* you'd have to build/
   implement it yourself.  Journaling filesystems are deliberately _not_ 
   provided with FreeBSD, due to security issues/implications with them.
   _You_ will have to decide if the security risks in *your* envrionment are
   worth the (limited) benefits.

3) you can switch to an OS _intended_ for use by the ill-informed; where the
   provider makes all the decisions for you, and allows only what they think
   is reasonable.  BUT, such an OS isn't going to look like Unix, nor feel
   like it, nor act like it.

Again, _YOUR_ choice.

To quote from one of the Indiana Jones movies: "choose wisely."





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Re: File system

[Bruce Cran]

On Sunday 09 May 2010 12:54:59 Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> Thank you Bruce and Matthew,
> for your very informed and insightful comments.
>  I read online that this may be fixed in FreeBSD 9 with jeff's UFS
> Journaling patch. Have you guys tried this yet?
> http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/

My test where I pressed the reset button was with SU+J: since the journaling 
is built upon SoftUpdates it does nothing to improve reliability, but simply 
exists to remove the need to run fsck on boot.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: File system

[Ansar Mohammed]

Thank you Bruce and Matthew,
for your very informed and insightful comments.
 I read online that this may be fixed in FreeBSD 9 with jeff's UFS
Journaling patch. Have you guys tried this yet?
http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Bruce Cran  wrote:

> On Sunday 09 May 2010 04:18:12 Ansar Mohammed wrote:
>
> > The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem
> (UFS)
> > is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
> > UFS+SoftUpdates.
> >
> > At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
> > databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
> > single user mode and file system/data corruption.
>
> Even with SoftUpdates and journaling you'll find UFS doesn't cope well with
> unclean shutdowns: to test it, a couple of weeks ago I started a "rm -rf
> /usr/obj/*" and pressed the reset button - upon startup I got dumped into
> single-user mode with a softupdates inconsistency. I've not tried the same
> test but I think ZFS is much better at recovering from this sort of problem
> since it was designed from the start to be very resilient.
>
> --
> Bruce Cran
>
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Re: File system

[Bruce Cran]

On Sunday 09 May 2010 04:18:12 Ansar Mohammed wrote:

> The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem (UFS)
> is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
> UFS+SoftUpdates.
> 
> At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
> databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
> single user mode and file system/data corruption.

Even with SoftUpdates and journaling you'll find UFS doesn't cope well with 
unclean shutdowns: to test it, a couple of weeks ago I started a "rm -rf 
/usr/obj/*" and pressed the reset button - upon startup I got dumped into 
single-user mode with a softupdates inconsistency. I've not tried the same 
test but I think ZFS is much better at recovering from this sort of problem 
since it was designed from the start to be very resilient.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: File system

[Matthew Seaman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/05/2010 06:16:13, Adam Vande More wrote:
>> The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem (UFS)
>> > is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
>> > UFS+SoftUpdates.
>> >
> Well I'd say that's clearly not the problem since so many of us don't have
> your issues.  SU is disabled on / for a reason. I highly doubt you actually
> want to enable this, but you can if you adjust the FS when it isn't mounted
> eg boot from fixit cd.

Softupdates is not normally enabled on the root, not because enabling SU
there is a bad thing, but because the root is expected to be pretty much
read-only.  Thus there's no real point to having it.

Historically, SU was disabled due to a bug where large writes to a
filesystem (such as 'make installworld') could temporarily take up a lot
of extra space, and given the usual propensity of root filesystems[*] to
be too small in any case, that was killing people's ability to update.
That bug was, however, fixed long ago so there's no particular reason
not to have SU on the root nowadays.

To turn on softupdates on the root, you need to *reboot* to single user
mode, or else boot from a livecd.  You can easily turn on softupdates on
root from sysinstall at install time.

You can implement journalling using gjournal -- just not from
sysinstall.  Or you can use ZFS which effectively has journalling and
other filesystem goodness built-in.  Search the wiki at
http://wiki.freebsd.org/ for instructions.

Cheers,

Matthew

[*] At the risk of sounding like a broken record -- using one big UFS
filesystem for all of /, /usr, /var works really well, and gets rid of
this sort of updating headache for ever.  The question is moot for ZFS
- -- you'ld allocate all the disk space from the same pool, but the
devices you create are resizable, so you can divide it up as much s you
like and set different flags on different locations without penalty.

- -- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
  Kent, CT11 9PW
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Re: File system

[Ansar Mohammed]

You know what,
dont worry about it. Thanks for the help all! You have been very helpful.




On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Adam Vande More wrote:

>  On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Ansar Mohammed  wrote:
>
>> Hello Bobby,
>>
>> The VM is in my lab environemnt. I have many flavours of Windows, Linux
>> and
>> FreeBSD. FreeBSD is my firewall running PF.
>>
>
>
>>
>> I have rebooted my entire environment hundreds of times, and non of my
>> Windows or Linux VMs will complain or boot into a repair/single user mode.
>>
>> The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem
>> (UFS)
>> is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
>> UFS+SoftUpdates.
>>
>
> Well I'd say that's clearly not the problem since so many of us don't have
> your issues.  SU is disabled on / for a reason. I highly doubt you actually
> want to enable this, but you can if you adjust the FS when it isn't mounted
> eg boot from fixit cd.
>
>>
>> At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
>> databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
>> single user mode and file system/data corruption.
>>
>
> FreeBSD has defaulted to background checking on SU FS's for the better part
> of 10 years.  What version are you running?  What data corruption did you
> have and what does databases have to do with it?  Also DB's that are
> unexpectly killed can have consistency problems regardless of what FS it
> writes to and OS happens to be running it.
>
>
>>
>> I love FreeBSD, and have been a user since 2.x
>>
>
> User as in you saw it running a couple times?
>
> So on to your actual issue instead of all the bs, what does your
> /etc/rc.conf say?  Specifically, what is the boot failing on?
>
> If you really want the disk/partition/slice journaled, you can do so with
> gjournal or ZFS offers an even better copy-on-write system.  If the install
> is only running a fw, the zfs is probably overkill though.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Adam Vande More
>
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Re: File system

[Adam Vande More]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Ansar Mohammed  wrote:

> Hello Bobby,
>
> The VM is in my lab environemnt. I have many flavours of Windows, Linux and
> FreeBSD. FreeBSD is my firewall running PF.
>


>
> I have rebooted my entire environment hundreds of times, and non of my
> Windows or Linux VMs will complain or boot into a repair/single user mode.
>
> The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem (UFS)
> is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
> UFS+SoftUpdates.
>

Well I'd say that's clearly not the problem since so many of us don't have
your issues.  SU is disabled on / for a reason. I highly doubt you actually
want to enable this, but you can if you adjust the FS when it isn't mounted
eg boot from fixit cd.

>
> At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
> databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
> single user mode and file system/data corruption.
>

FreeBSD has defaulted to background checking on SU FS's for the better part
of 10 years.  What version are you running?  What data corruption did you
have and what does databases have to do with it?  Also DB's that are
unexpectly killed can have consistency problems regardless of what FS it
writes to and OS happens to be running it.


>
> I love FreeBSD, and have been a user since 2.x
>

User as in you saw it running a couple times?

So on to your actual issue instead of all the bs, what does your
/etc/rc.conf say?  Specifically, what is the boot failing on?

If you really want the disk/partition/slice journaled, you can do so with
gjournal or ZFS offers an even better copy-on-write system.  If the install
is only running a fw, the zfs is probably overkill though.




-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: File system

[Bobby Walker]

On May 8, 2010, at 10:18 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:

> Hello Bobby,
> 
> The VM is in my lab environemnt. I have many flavours of Windows, Linux and
> FreeBSD. FreeBSD is my firewall running PF.
> 
> I have rebooted my entire environment hundreds of times, and non of my
> Windows or Linux VMs will complain or boot into a repair/single user mode.
> 
> The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem (UFS)
> is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
> UFS+SoftUpdates.
> 
> At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
> databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
> single user mode and file system/data corruption.
> 
> I love FreeBSD, and have been a user since 2.x but its a bit frustrating
> that whenever power fails I have to do this..
> 
> 
> On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Bobby Walker  wrote:
> 
>> On May 8, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
>>> shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.
>>> 
>>> When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.
>>> 
>>> Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont
>> crap
>>> out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?
>>> ___
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>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
>> freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
>>> 
>> 
>> I am far from an expert on this topic, but under what situation is it good
>> to take any OS down suddenly?  Is this an unavoidable event of some sort?
>> 
>> If this is a timed event, that happens on a regular basis, then you should
>> be able to issue a timed shutdown prior to that so that the operating system
>> goes down cleanly.
>> 
>> Any file system that is taken down abruptly, repeatedly will see
>> degradation.  Databases and open files, not to mention any data that is
>> being written from/to the hard disk are all meant to be taken down and
>> cleared out properly.
>> 
>> I'm not certain that a different file system is the solution, it might just
>> be a band-aid on the greater problem, which is eliminating the sudden power
>> loss that's simulated by shutting off a VM.
>> 
>> -- Bobby___

Okay, I just took my VM down abruptly, and I had no problems coming back up 
automatically. 

That makes me wonder exactly how your fstab is set, would you mind posting 
yours if it deviates too much from what mine looks like?

# DeviceMountpoint  FStype  Options 
DumpPass#
/dev/ad0s1b noneswapsw  
0   0
/dev/ad0s1a /   ufs 
rw  1   1
/dev/ad0s1e /tmpufs 
rw  2   2
/dev/ad0s1f /usrufs 
rw  2   2
/dev/ad0s1d /varufs 
rw  2   2
/dev/acd0   /cdrom  cd9660  ro,noauto   
0   0


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Re: File system

[Ansar Mohammed]

Hello Bobby,

The VM is in my lab environemnt. I have many flavours of Windows, Linux and
FreeBSD. FreeBSD is my firewall running PF.

I have rebooted my entire environment hundreds of times, and non of my
Windows or Linux VMs will complain or boot into a repair/single user mode.

The background to this problem is because the FreeBSD root filesystem (UFS)
is not journaled and for some reason I cannot set my root partition to be
UFS+SoftUpdates.

At any rate, we are in the year 2010, most modern operating systems and
databases and able to survive an unclean shutdown without booting into
single user mode and file system/data corruption.

I love FreeBSD, and have been a user since 2.x but its a bit frustrating
that whenever power fails I have to do this..


On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Bobby Walker  wrote:

> On May 8, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
>
>  > Hello All,
> > I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
> > shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.
> >
> > When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.
> >
> > Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont
> crap
> > out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?
> > ___
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> >
>
> I am far from an expert on this topic, but under what situation is it good
> to take any OS down suddenly?  Is this an unavoidable event of some sort?
>
> If this is a timed event, that happens on a regular basis, then you should
> be able to issue a timed shutdown prior to that so that the operating system
> goes down cleanly.
>
> Any file system that is taken down abruptly, repeatedly will see
> degradation.  Databases and open files, not to mention any data that is
> being written from/to the hard disk are all meant to be taken down and
> cleared out properly.
>
> I'm not certain that a different file system is the solution, it might just
> be a band-aid on the greater problem, which is eliminating the sudden power
> loss that's simulated by shutting off a VM.
>
> -- Bobby___
>  freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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> freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
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Re: File system

[Bobby Walker]

On May 8, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote:

> Hello All,
> I have a FreeBSD VM running. Whenever I reboot the VM without a clean
> shutdown it boots into single user mode and I have to run fsck.
> 
> When I run fsck, the file system clearly has issues.
> 
> Is there any way to have FreeBSD run on a better file system that wont crap
> out on me everytime I do and unclean shutdown?
> ___
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> 

I am far from an expert on this topic, but under what situation is it good to 
take any OS down suddenly?  Is this an unavoidable event of some sort?

If this is a timed event, that happens on a regular basis, then you should be 
able to issue a timed shutdown prior to that so that the operating system goes 
down cleanly.

Any file system that is taken down abruptly, repeatedly will see degradation.  
Databases and open files, not to mention any data that is being written from/to 
the hard disk are all meant to be taken down and cleared out properly.

I'm not certain that a different file system is the solution, it might just be 
a band-aid on the greater problem, which is eliminating the sudden power loss 
that's simulated by shutting off a VM.

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Re: File system corruption upon reboot with gmirror

[Michel Talon]

Mike Bristow said:

> > What's this stuff? shutdown -r is implemented using reboot.
> 
> Only when you give it -o.  Otherwise it sends a signal to init,
> and init manages the shutdown.The code you quote is only 
> run if -o is given

But the code is init implementing reboot is the same as in the commande
"reboot" and uses the call reboot(2)
/usr/src/sbin/init/init.c line 643

 if (Reboot) {
/* Instead of going single user, let's reboot the
 * machine */
sync();
alarm(2);
pause();
reboot(howto);
_exit(0);
}
Note the reboot(howto) which is exactly the same as in the command
reboot. If there are differences it may be in the number of sync(),
pause() and so on issued, i have not checked, but i would be surprised
that there is any significative difference between the several ways of
rebooting.


-- 

Michel TALON

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Re: File system corruption upon reboot with gmirror

[Mike Bristow]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 04:12:09PM +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
> Gunther Mayer wrote:
> 
> > > Don't use "reboot", use shutdown -r now. I also had the same problem
> > > once
> > > (had to get physical access to the box to fix it) and it was because
> > > of
> > > the "reboot".
> > >   
> > 
> > Thanks. I guess I'll use shutdown -r now then in future. If it still 
> > happens then I'll post again...
> 
> What's this stuff? shutdown -r is implemented using reboot.

Only when you give it -o.  Otherwise it sends a signal to init,
and init manages the shutdown.The code you quote is only 
run if -o is given.

-- 
Shenanigans!  Shenanigans!Best of 3!
-- Flash 

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Re: File system corruption upon reboot with gmirror

[Michel Talon]

Gunther Mayer wrote:

> > Don't use "reboot", use shutdown -r now. I also had the same problem
> > once
> > (had to get physical access to the box to fix it) and it was because
> > of
> > the "reboot".
> >   
> 
> Thanks. I guess I'll use shutdown -r now then in future. If it still 
> happens then I'll post again...

What's this stuff? shutdown -r is implemented using reboot.

if (doreboot) {
execle(_PATH_REBOOT, "reboot", "-l", nosync, 
 ^^^
(char *)NULL, empty_environ);
syslog(LOG_ERR, "shutdown: can't exec %s: %m.",
_PATH_REBOOT);
warn(_PATH_REBOOT);
}




-- 

Michel TALON

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Re: File system corruption upon reboot with gmirror

[Gunther Mayer]

Nejc S wrote:

Hello,

  

Afaic this only happens on a power loss or otherwise unclean shutdown
but I used the "reboot" command from the shell (in a background (sleep



Don't use "reboot", use shutdown -r now. I also had the same problem once
(had to get physical access to the box to fix it) and it was because of
the "reboot".
  


Thanks. I guess I'll use shutdown -r now then in future. If it still 
happens then I'll post again...


Gunther
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Re: File system corruption upon reboot with gmirror

[koberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Hello,

> Afaic this only happens on a power loss or otherwise unclean shutdown
> but I used the "reboot" command from the shell (in a background (sleep

Don't use "reboot", use shutdown -r now. I also had the same problem once
(had to get physical access to the box to fix it) and it was because of
the "reboot".

Bye,
Nejc
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Re: File System errors

[Mikhail Goriachev]

Ross Penner wrote:
> On 5/15/07, Roland Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:15:06PM -0600, Ross Penner wrote:
>>>  I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
>>>  worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
>>>  looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
>>>  root and I got the following:
>> You normally don't have to do this manually. If a filesystem isn't
>> cleanly unmounted, it is automatically checked (in the background if
>> possible, so it might take a while) on the next boot.
>>
>> And in that case fsck won't bother you unless it runs into problems it
>> can't solve.
>>
>> Roland
>> --
>> R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
>> [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated]
>> pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914  B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725)
>>
> 
> Thanks for everybodies help. I restarted in single user mode which
> allowed me to do the check manually. I'll probably just let the
> background check go if it happens again.


By default, the background checking doesn't do much. In my experience,
every time one of the machines goes down, I have to schedule a manual
fsck (fsck -fy) in single user mode.

Another option, probably, is this:

fsck_y_enable="YES"

It sounds scary though.


Regards,
Mikhail.

-- 
Mikhail Goriachev
Webanoide

Telephone: +61 (0)3 62252501
Mobile Phone: +61 (0)4 38255158
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.webanoide.org
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Re: File System errors

[Gary Kline]

On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 06:34:42AM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Gary Kline wrote:
> 
> > I booted into single-user ("press 4") and got rid of tons of junk
> > left in /var/tmp.  Then I did a mount -a and and fsck -y.
> 
> But not in that order.  fsck -y *first*, then mount -a, then start
> removing files from /var/tmp.
> 

Well, my DNS server ran out of space and when I was able to 
bring it back up, only / was mounted.  I was able to rm things
from /var and /tmp to give me some assurance of a regular boot.
Yes, before I did my first set of file unlinks I did fsck -y /;
it was the only thing mounted.  

I'm usually pretty disciplined about / having enough space.  Not
this time... .

gary


>   Matthew
> 
> - -- 
> Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
>   Flat 3
> PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
>   Kent, CT11 9PW
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (FreeBSD)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFGSpfy8Mjk52CukIwRCPsuAJsFQwT+G5APT3a4XccFcmODfYXMlQCfYCQR
> BI5cpzCkfYKOkFfSCGo9HvQ=
> =VlWP
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: File System errors

[Matthew Seaman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Gary Kline wrote:

>   I booted into single-user ("press 4") and got rid of tons of junk
>   left in /var/tmp.  Then I did a mount -a and and fsck -y.

But not in that order.  fsck -y *first*, then mount -a, then start
removing files from /var/tmp.

Matthew

- -- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
  Kent, CT11 9PW
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (FreeBSD)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGSpfy8Mjk52CukIwRCPsuAJsFQwT+G5APT3a4XccFcmODfYXMlQCfYCQR
BI5cpzCkfYKOkFfSCGo9HvQ=
=VlWP
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Re: File System errors

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 02:49:59PM -0400, Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
> 
> El Mar, 15 de Mayo de 2007, 14:15, Ross Penner escribió:
> > I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
> > worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
> > looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
> > root and I got the following:
> >
[[ ...  ]]

> >
> > ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> > FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> > SALVAGE? no
> >
> > SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
> > SALVAGE? no
> >
> > 18514 files, 70825 used, 905728 free (6688 frags, 112380 blocks, 0.7%
> > fragmentation)
> >
> >
> > It seems to my unexperienced eye that their are problems in some of
> > the filesystems, but they arn't being resolved. I tried running fsck
> > -y  and nothing changed. What am I doing wrong? How can I resolve
> > these issues? Thanks for any help you can offer.
> > [SNIP]
> >

I ran in to similar snafus with mmy DNS server, very recently.  
I booted into single-user ("press 4") and got rid of tons of junk
left in /var/tmp.  Then I did a mount -a and and fsck -y.

If fsck were any more useful, it would be able to cure death!
..Or at least hangovers:-)

goood luck,


gary



-- 
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Re: File System errors

[Daniel Molina Wegener]

El Mar, 15 de Mayo de 2007, 14:15, Ross Penner escribió:
> I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
> worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
> looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
> root and I got the following:
>
> rosbot# fsck
> ** /dev/ar0s1a (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /
> ** Root file system
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 1549 files, 27349 used, 226466 free (650 frags, 28227 blocks, 0.3%
> fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1e (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /tmp
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 39 files, 2445 used, 251370 free (50 frags, 31415 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1f (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /usr
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> SALVAGE? no
>
> 292882 files, 98192697 used, 135895442 free (39610 frags, 16981979
> blocks, 0.0% fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1d (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /var
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> UNREF FILE I=117781  OWNER=root MODE=140666
> SIZE=0 MTIME=May 15 09:56 2007
> CLEAR? no
>
> UNREF FILE I=141337  OWNER=teamspeak MODE=100600
> SIZE=2048 MTIME=May 15 09:56 2007
> CLEAR? no
>
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> SALVAGE? no
>
> SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
> SALVAGE? no
>
> 18514 files, 70825 used, 905728 free (6688 frags, 112380 blocks, 0.7%
> fragmentation)
>
>
> It seems to my unexperienced eye that their are problems in some of
> the filesystems, but they arn't being resolved. I tried running fsck
> -y  and nothing changed. What am I doing wrong? How can I resolve
> these issues? Thanks for any help you can offer.
> [SNIP]
>

Hello,

   Try booting in single user mode, then running fsck again with -y parameter --
seems to
need unmounted devices.

Regards,
-- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | C/C++ Developer
 ..O | dmw [at] unete [dot] cl | FOSS Coding Adict
 OOO | BSD & Linux User| Standards Rocks!


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Re: File System errors

[Ross Penner]

On 5/15/07, Roland Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:15:06PM -0600, Ross Penner wrote:
>  I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
>  worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
>  looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
>  root and I got the following:

You normally don't have to do this manually. If a filesystem isn't
cleanly unmounted, it is automatically checked (in the background if
possible, so it might take a while) on the next boot.

And in that case fsck won't bother you unless it runs into problems it
can't solve.

Roland
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Thanks for everybodies help. I restarted in single user mode which
allowed me to do the check manually. I'll probably just let the
background check go if it happens again.
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Re: File System errors

[Roland Smith]

On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:15:06PM -0600, Ross Penner wrote:
>  I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
>  worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
>  looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
>  root and I got the following:

You normally don't have to do this manually. If a filesystem isn't
cleanly unmounted, it is automatically checked (in the background if
possible, so it might take a while) on the next boot. 

And in that case fsck won't bother you unless it runs into problems it
can't solve.

Roland
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Re: File System errors

[Jerry McAllister]

On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:15:06PM -0600, Ross Penner wrote:

> I recently had my system freeze so I had to manually restart it. I was
> worried that there would be some problems with the filesystem so I
> looked into the matter and discovered the utility fsck. I ran this as
> root and I got the following:
> 
> rosbot# fsck
> ** /dev/ar0s1a (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /
> ** Root file system
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 1549 files, 27349 used, 226466 free (650 frags, 28227 blocks, 0.3%
> fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1e (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /tmp
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 39 files, 2445 used, 251370 free (50 frags, 31415 blocks, 0.0% 
> fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1f (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /usr
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> SALVAGE? no
> 
> 292882 files, 98192697 used, 135895442 free (39610 frags, 16981979
> blocks, 0.0% fragmentation)
> ** /dev/ar0s1d (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /var
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> UNREF FILE I=117781  OWNER=root MODE=140666
> SIZE=0 MTIME=May 15 09:56 2007
> CLEAR? no
> 
> UNREF FILE I=141337  OWNER=teamspeak MODE=100600
> SIZE=2048 MTIME=May 15 09:56 2007
> CLEAR? no
> 
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> SALVAGE? no
> 
> SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
> SALVAGE? no
> 
> 18514 files, 70825 used, 905728 free (6688 frags, 112380 blocks, 0.7%
> fragmentation)
> 
> 
> It seems to my unexperienced eye that their are problems in some of
> the filesystems, but they arn't being resolved. I tried running fsck
> -y  and nothing changed. What am I doing wrong? How can I resolve
> these issues? Thanks for any help you can offer.

I may be mistaking something, but it kind of looks like it doesn't
have write access to the drive.Fsck has to be able to write to
fix anything.

Also, you need to answer 'y' when it asks to 'salvage'.  Of course, 
doing the fsck -y should take care of that issue, but it still must
have write permission.   I don't know why it wouldn't have write ability.

jerry

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Re: File System errors

[Chuck Swiger]

On May 15, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Ross Penner wrote:
[ ... about fsck... ]

It seems to my unexperienced eye that their are problems in some of
the filesystems, but they arn't being resolved. I tried running fsck
-y  and nothing changed. What am I doing wrong? How can I resolve
these issues? Thanks for any help you can offer.


You can only (usefully) run fsck on unmounted filesystems.  Normally,  
if a filesystem has problems and cannot be mounted, the system will  
not enter multi-user mode and will require the operator to run it  
from single-user mode.  You can also boot off of a CD and fsck the  
hard drive that way.


Note that you generally need to answer "yes" to the repair questions  
fsck asks of you


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Re: file system for FreeBSD, OS X and WinXP?

[Chris Whitehouse]

Eric Kjeldergaard wrote:

On 12/31/06, Keith Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello all,

I recently picked up a big 700G external USB/Firewire Seagate drive with
the
hopes of using it to store my growing collection of music, photos, etc.
currently spread across several different machines (all with nearly full
discs).  My hope is that I could use a single file system on this drive
which could then be plugged into any of these machines which run FreeBSD,
OS
X, or WinXP.



My usual recommendation for this very problem is the ext2 filesystem.  As
far as I know, the drivers exist and work reasonably well for win32, 
MacOSX,

linux, BSD, and several others.  If taking it to machines that may not have
network to get FS drivers is an issue, you could consider several small
partitions each with an FS driver for a specific OS on it.



I chose ext2fs for the same reason. It worked fine until a power cut 
crashed the FreeBSD machine it was attached to and left the ext2fs 
partition in a big mess. I couldn't mount it until I had fsck'd it 
which needs sysutils/e2fsprogs. I think in the end I didn't lose data 
but now I don't trust it for holding data I don't want to lose.


Chris

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Re: file system for FreeBSD, OS X and WinXP?

[Eric Kjeldergaard]

On 12/31/06, Keith Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello all,

I recently picked up a big 700G external USB/Firewire Seagate drive with
the
hopes of using it to store my growing collection of music, photos, etc.
currently spread across several different machines (all with nearly full
discs).  My hope is that I could use a single file system on this drive
which could then be plugged into any of these machines which run FreeBSD,
OS
X, or WinXP.



My usual recommendation for this very problem is the ext2 filesystem.  As
far as I know, the drivers exist and work reasonably well for win32, MacOSX,
linux, BSD, and several others.  If taking it to machines that may not have
network to get FS drivers is an issue, you could consider several small
partitions each with an FS driver for a specific OS on it.

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Re: file system for FreeBSD, OS X and WinXP?

[Derek Ragona]

I would use the drive under FreeBSD and mount it over the network using 
samba.  Physically moving drives makes little sense when you can share the 
drive over a network.


-Derek


At 05:08 PM 12/31/2006, Keith Beattie wrote:

Hello all,

I recently picked up a big 700G external USB/Firewire Seagate drive with the
hopes of using it to store my growing collection of music, photos, etc.
currently spread across several different machines (all with nearly full
discs).  My hope is that I could use a single file system on this drive
which could then be plugged into any of these machines which run FreeBSD, OS
X, or WinXP.

The disc came formatted FAT32, which FreeBSD didn't like ("too big" was the
error when mounting).  Formatting it UFS on OS X, showed that Apple's notion
of UFS differs significantly from FreeBSD's notion of UFS.  Formatting it
under FreeBSD, likewise, leaves it only usable there.

Is there a file system which will work for a drive this size on at least
FreeBSD and OS X?  It appears that HFS+ is a possibility, but I'm concerned
that the support for that file system under FreeBSD is not current.  What
are people's experiences here?  Is it perhaps better to punt on the idea of
moving the drive about and go with a NAS-like solution running NFS/Samba and
such on the FreeBSD box?

TIA,
ksb
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Re: File system full

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On 2006-10-18 14:34, Matthew Seaman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> > The file `alias.log' is not rotated by `newsyslog.conf', so maybe we
> > should add it there?  Then we can let `newsyslog' signal `natd' by:
> >
> > %%%
> > diff -r 4474abb9619a etc/newsyslog.conf
> > --- a/etc/newsyslog.confFri Oct 13 17:34:54 2006 +0300
> > +++ b/etc/newsyslog.confWed Oct 18 15:54:52 2006 +0300
> > @@ -18,6 +18,7 @@
> >  #
> >  # logfilename  [owner:group]mode count size when  flags 
> > [/pid_file] [sig_num]
> >  /var/log/all.log   600  7 *@T00  J
> > +/var/log/alias.log 600  7 100  * JC
> > /var/run/natd.pid
> >  /var/log/amd.log   644  7 100  * J
> >  /var/log/auth.log  600  7 100  * JC
> >  /var/log/console.log   600  5 100  * J
> > %%%
> >
> > Can you please add this line to your newsyslog.conf file and let it run
> > for a while to see if it prevents the `alias.log' file of `natd' to fill
> > your /var/log filesystem?
> >
> > I don't use `natd', so I can't test this myself for a long enough
> > period.
>
> natd doesn't do the close and re-open all filehandles thing on receipt
> of SIGHUP which pretty much makes it unsuitable for use with newsyslog.
> (SIGHUP is caught by natd, but the only thing it does is cause natd to
> update its idea of what the IP address is on the nat'ed interface.)
>
> There doesn't seem to be any signal that you can send natd with the
> usual 'reread all config files and re-open all file descriptors'
> effect that most daemons understand.

That's probably a bug, then, I guess.  The fact that natd can keep a
file open for an arbitrary amount of time and keep appending to it,
until either natd dies or the file fills up an entire partition is not
really a good idea :(

I'll open a PR for this, and see if the people more knowledgeable with
natd's internals can help with the SIGHUP-triggered actions of natd.

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Re: File system full

[Robert Huff]

Matthew Seaman writes:

>  There doesn't seem to be any signal that you can send natd with the
>  usual 'reread all config files and re-open all file descriptors'
>  effect that most daemons understand.

The next obvious questions are "would that be desirable
behavior?" and "how hard would it be to implement?".


Robert Huff
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Re: File system full

[Matthew Seaman]

Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On 2006-10-18 07:13, Paul Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>>> On 2006-10-18 07:53, "Office of CEO- rithy4u.NET" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Dear All,
 My firewall server was running out of space on / partition I
 have try to reboot/fsck and delete all unneccessary files
 inside / but I still get 12 MB of free space with total 495 MB
 worth of that partition. Any ideas?
>>> First of all, try to track down where all the space has gone, by
>>> using `df' and `du' with the -x option.  For example, you can get
>>> a good idea of which places in your root filesystem are the top-10
>>> users of space with:
>>>
>>> # cd /
>>> # du -xm . | sort -nr | head -10
>>>
>>> If this doesn't show up a lot of stuff, then there's probably a
>>> rogue process which has opened a file and then removed it, so
>>> it's not directly visible by traversing the tree with `du', but
>>> you can still look for it with:
>>>
>>> # fstat -f / | sort -k +8
>>>
>>> After you get this sort of information, we can make more informed
>>> suggestions about the best way to move forward :)
>> I have been trying to track down a similar problem! Using the above
>> method I think I have found 'natd' to be the culprit. Should 'natd'
>> receive a signal when 'alias.log' rolls over? Restarting 'natd' seems
>> to have releases some megabytes.
> 
> Nice catch, Paul!
> 
> The `alias.log' file is supposed to be in `/var/log', but I guess if you
> use a single root filesystem for everything, this can end up filling the
> root filesystem.
> 
> The file `alias.log' is not rotated by `newsyslog.conf', so maybe we
> should add it there?  Then we can let `newsyslog' signal `natd' by:
> 
> %%%
> diff -r 4474abb9619a etc/newsyslog.conf
> --- a/etc/newsyslog.conf  Fri Oct 13 17:34:54 2006 +0300
> +++ b/etc/newsyslog.conf  Wed Oct 18 15:54:52 2006 +0300
> @@ -18,6 +18,7 @@
>  #
>  # logfilename  [owner:group]mode count size when  flags 
> [/pid_file] [sig_num]
>  /var/log/all.log 600  7 *@T00  J
> +/var/log/alias.log   600  7 100  * JC
> /var/run/natd.pid
>  /var/log/amd.log 644  7 100  * J
>  /var/log/auth.log600  7 100  * JC
>  /var/log/console.log 600  5 100  * J
> %%%
> 
> Can you please add this line to your newsyslog.conf file and let it run
> for a while to see if it prevents the `alias.log' file of `natd' to fill
> your /var/log filesystem?
> 
> I don't use `natd', so I can't test this myself for a long enough
> period.

natd doesn't do the close and re-open all filehandles thing on receipt
of SIGHUP which pretty much makes it unsuitable for use with newsyslog.
(SIGHUP is caught by natd, but the only thing it does is cause natd to
update its idea of what the IP address is on the nat'ed interface.)

There doesn't seem to be any signal that you can send natd with the
usual 'reread all config files and re-open all file descriptors'
effect that most daemons understand.

Cheers,

Matthew

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  7 Priory Courtyard
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
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Re: File system full

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On 2006-10-18 07:13, Paul Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>>On 2006-10-18 07:53, "Office of CEO- rithy4u.NET" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> My firewall server was running out of space on / partition I
>>> have try to reboot/fsck and delete all unneccessary files
>>> inside / but I still get 12 MB of free space with total 495 MB
>>> worth of that partition. Any ideas?
>>
>> First of all, try to track down where all the space has gone, by
>> using `df' and `du' with the -x option.  For example, you can get
>> a good idea of which places in your root filesystem are the top-10
>> users of space with:
>>
>> # cd /
>> # du -xm . | sort -nr | head -10
>>
>> If this doesn't show up a lot of stuff, then there's probably a
>> rogue process which has opened a file and then removed it, so
>> it's not directly visible by traversing the tree with `du', but
>> you can still look for it with:
>>
>> # fstat -f / | sort -k +8
>>
>> After you get this sort of information, we can make more informed
>> suggestions about the best way to move forward :)
>
> I have been trying to track down a similar problem! Using the above
> method I think I have found 'natd' to be the culprit. Should 'natd'
> receive a signal when 'alias.log' rolls over? Restarting 'natd' seems
> to have releases some megabytes.

Nice catch, Paul!

The `alias.log' file is supposed to be in `/var/log', but I guess if you
use a single root filesystem for everything, this can end up filling the
root filesystem.

The file `alias.log' is not rotated by `newsyslog.conf', so maybe we
should add it there?  Then we can let `newsyslog' signal `natd' by:

%%%
diff -r 4474abb9619a etc/newsyslog.conf
--- a/etc/newsyslog.confFri Oct 13 17:34:54 2006 +0300
+++ b/etc/newsyslog.confWed Oct 18 15:54:52 2006 +0300
@@ -18,6 +18,7 @@
 #
 # logfilename  [owner:group]mode count size when  flags 
[/pid_file] [sig_num]
 /var/log/all.log   600  7 *@T00  J
+/var/log/alias.log 600  7 100  * JC
/var/run/natd.pid
 /var/log/amd.log   644  7 100  * J
 /var/log/auth.log  600  7 100  * JC
 /var/log/console.log   600  5 100  * J
%%%

Can you please add this line to your newsyslog.conf file and let it run
for a while to see if it prevents the `alias.log' file of `natd' to fill
your /var/log filesystem?

I don't use `natd', so I can't test this myself for a long enough
period.

Regards,
Giorgos

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Re: File system full

[Robert Huff]

Paul Murphy writes:

>I have been trying to track down a similar problem! Using the 
>  above method I think I have found 'natd' to be the culprit.
>  Should 'natd' receive a signal when 'alias.log' rolls over? 
>  Restarting 'natd' seems to have releases some megabytes.

That's not actually clear from the man page.


Robert Huff
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Re: File system full

[Paul Murphy]

Giorgos Keramidas wrote:

On 2006-10-18 07:53, "Office of CEO- rithy4u.NET" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear All,
My firewall server was running out of space on / partition I
have try to reboot/fsck and delete all unneccessary files
inside / but I still get 12 MB of free space with total 495 MB
worth of that partition. Any ideas?


First of all, try to track down where all the space has gone, by
using `df' and `du' with the -x option.  For example, you can get
a good idea of which places in your root filesystem are the top-10
users of space with:

# cd /
# du -xm . | sort -nr | head -10

If this doesn't show up a lot of stuff, then there's probably a
rogue process which has opened a file and then removed it, so
it's not directly visible by traversing the tree with `du', but
you can still look for it with:

# fstat -f / | sort -k +8

After you get this sort of information, we can make more informed
suggestions about the best way to move forward :)

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 I have been trying to track down a similar problem! Using the 
above method I think I have found 'natd' to be the culprit. Should 
'natd' receive a signal when 'alias.log' rolls over? Restarting 
'natd' seems to have releases some megabytes.



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Re: File system full

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On 2006-10-18 07:53, "Office of CEO- rithy4u.NET" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear All,
> My firewall server was running out of space on / partition I
> have try to reboot/fsck and delete all unneccessary files
> inside / but I still get 12 MB of free space with total 495 MB
> worth of that partition. Any ideas?

First of all, try to track down where all the space has gone, by
using `df' and `du' with the -x option.  For example, you can get
a good idea of which places in your root filesystem are the top-10
users of space with:

# cd /
# du -xm . | sort -nr | head -10

If this doesn't show up a lot of stuff, then there's probably a
rogue process which has opened a file and then removed it, so
it's not directly visible by traversing the tree with `du', but
you can still look for it with:

# fstat -f / | sort -k +8

After you get this sort of information, we can make more informed
suggestions about the best way to move forward :)

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Re: File System for attached storage?

[Chuck Swiger]

Atom Powers wrote:

All the modern storage cabinets have two data ports (mine has two
SCSI320 ports) so they can be attached to two servers. But what kind
of file system can you use that would make that data available to both
servers?

Splitting the storage in half isn't an option, as that doesn't give
added redundancy.

I've head of GFS and Coda, but I can't find any information about how
stable these file systems are on FreeBSD 6.x.

What do/would you use to share a storage device between two servers?


There's something in the SCSI and Firewire worlds called "target initiator 
mode" or "target mode", which lets you have multiple controllers on the same 
bus without direct conflict.


This can be used to treat your laptop as if it were an external hard drive and 
work on it from another system.  Or it can be used to share a tape drive 
between two machines, at least so long as only one computer is doing stuff at 
any particular time.


Less commonly, it can be used for fault-tolerant hot-standby servers operating 
from a shared central storage.  If you want that kind of thing, or if you want 
several computers to modify the same disks in parallel, you should look into 
fibre-channel or maybe iSCSI-based SAN solutions.


These usually involve a bespoke filesystem and metadata controller mechanism 
to keep the filesystem sane-- something like a Qlogic FC-switch, an Apple 
Xsan, + ADIC StorEdge software, for example.


--
-Chuck
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Re: File System for attached storage?

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Jul 19), Atom Powers said:
> All the modern storage cabinets have two data ports (mine has two
> SCSI320 ports) so they can be attached to two servers. But what kind
> of file system can you use that would make that data available to
> both servers?
> 
> Splitting the storage in half isn't an option, as that doesn't give
> added redundancy.
> 
> I've head of GFS and Coda, but I can't find any information about how
> stable these file systems are on FreeBSD 6.x.
> 
> What do/would you use to share a storage device between two servers?

You could have an active/passive cluster using the sysutils/heartbeat
port, so that if the primary machine fails, the secondary fscks and
mounts the filesystem, and grabs the cluster IP address.

Another explanation for the two ports is so that you can connect both
cables to a single system for double the throughput, or so you can
daisy-chain multiple cabinets together, if you're more interested in
capacity than speed.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: File System for attached storage?

[Atom Powers]

On 7/19/06, Jonathan Horne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wednesday 19 July 2006 18:55, Atom Powers wrote:
> All the modern storage cabinets have two data ports (mine has two
> SCSI320 ports) so they can be attached to two servers. But what kind
> of file system can you use that would make that data available to both
> servers?
>

unless youre referring to some sort of SAN, ive never heard of a drive cage
that was designed for 2 servers.  what model storage cabinet do you have, and
does the manual say/show it being attached to 2 servers?  are you sure those
2 ports are not one for in, and one for out?



Promise Vtrak M300p, 12 drive SATA storage cabinet with two SCSI
Ultra320 controllers. I'm almost positive it can handle two servers
connected to it.

But I also have a SAN cabinet (14 SCSI drives). So my question is
still relevant even if the Vtrak can only have one server attached.

--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--
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Re: File System for attached storage?

[Jonathan Horne]

On Wednesday 19 July 2006 18:55, Atom Powers wrote:
> All the modern storage cabinets have two data ports (mine has two
> SCSI320 ports) so they can be attached to two servers. But what kind
> of file system can you use that would make that data available to both
> servers?
>
> Splitting the storage in half isn't an option, as that doesn't give
> added redundancy.
>
> I've head of GFS and Coda, but I can't find any information about how
> stable these file systems are on FreeBSD 6.x.
>
> What do/would you use to share a storage device between two servers?

unless youre referring to some sort of SAN, ive never heard of a drive cage 
that was designed for 2 servers.  what model storage cabinet do you have, and 
does the manual say/show it being attached to 2 servers?  are you sure those 
2 ports are not one for in, and one for out?

cheers,
jonathan
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Re: file system full

[Philip Hallstrom]

Hi all,

 My "/var" is fully 99%, because I create one tar.gz of the squid logs.

 I was move for smbfs, then network die!!!

 I try:

 rm -rf file.tar.gz

 and don't have more free space oon the file system.


 Somebody help me?


Also, be sure that no process (ie. squid, syslog, etc.) still has an open 
file handle on any of the files you think you'v removed/moved.  They 
aren't really gone till you restart those processes and they close/open 
the file handles...


-philip
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Re: file system full

[Lowell Gilbert]

Rodrigo Mufalani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi all,
> 
>   My "/var" is fully 99%, because I create one tar.gz of the squid logs.
> 
>   I was move for smbfs, then network die!!!
> 
>   I try:
>   
>   rm -rf file.tar.gz 
>   
>   and don't have more free space oon the file system.
> 
>
>   Somebody help me?

You are asking the Frequently Asked Question:
 "The du and df commands show different amounts of disk space
  available. What is going on?"

See: 
 
http://be-well.ilk.org/FreeBSD/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#DU-VS-DF
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Re: file system full

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> Hi all,
> 
>   My "/var" is fully 99%, because I create one tar.gz of the squid logs.
> 
>   I was move for smbfs, then network die!!!
> 
>   I try:
>   
>   rm -rf file.tar.gz 
>   
>   and don't have more free space oon the file system.
> 
>
>   Somebody help me?

Do you have any other disk space large enough to hold that big file?
Move it there.
Can you compress/gzip it to someplace like /tmp?

jerry

>  
> Att,
> 
> Rodrigo Mufalani
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
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> 

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Re: file system full

[Atom Powers]

`du -h / | grep "...M" '
will show you all files that are more than 1.0MB in size.

`find /var -type d | sed 's/.*/"&"/' | xargs du -sm | sort -g`
will do the same thing, but list them with the largest files last.

'df -h'
should show you free space, but does not always update immediatly. If
that large file doesn't exist in either of the above lists then you
shouldn't have a problem.

Consider moving your squid log to /usr/log/squid.log and symlinking it
to /var/log (assuming you have a large /usr partition)

On 5/4/06, Rodrigo Mufalani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi all,

  My "/var" is fully 99%, because I create one tar.gz of the squid logs.

  I was move for smbfs, then network die!!!

  I try:

  rm -rf file.tar.gz

  and don't have more free space oon the file system.


  Somebody help me?

Att,

Rodrigo Mufalani






This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
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--
--
Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard.
--Atom Powers--
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Re: file system full help

[Noah]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:23:41 +0200, Alex de Kruijff wrote
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 06:46:14AM -0800, Noah wrote:
> > I sometimes get reports of "file system full" but not accurately because 
> > when
> > viewing the drive with "df -k" I find there is adequate space on the drive. 
> > Usually this is casused by log files considered larger than the available
> > space on the /var directory.
> 
> That you don't have adequate space for the task at hand. In this case
> compressing the log (this means the source needs to be arround wile a
> new bzip file is created) and create a new fresh file.
> 
> >  I would like to see if this in fact the case.
> > 
> > Can somebody please remind me what commands I can use to troubleshoot this
> > current condition?
> 
> Use 'du -s * | sort -n' to find the largest files


I was looking for lsof - du only shows written files.



> 
> -- 
> Alex
> 
> Please copy the original recipients, otherwise I may not read your reply.
> 
> Howtos based on my personal use, including information about 
> setting up a firewall and creating traffic graphs with MRTG
> http://alex.kruijff.org/FreeBSD/
> 
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Re: file system full help

[Noah]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:23:41 +0200, Alex de Kruijff wrote
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 06:46:14AM -0800, Noah wrote:
> > I sometimes get reports of "file system full" but not accurately because 
> > when
> > viewing the drive with "df -k" I find there is adequate space on the drive. 
> > Usually this is casused by log files considered larger than the available
> > space on the /var directory.
> 
> That you don't have adequate space for the task at hand. In this case
> compressing the log (this means the source needs to be arround wile a
> new bzip file is created) and create a new fresh file.
> 
> >  I would like to see if this in fact the case.
> > 
> > Can somebody please remind me what commands I can use to troubleshoot this
> > current condition?
> 
> Use 'du -s * | sort -n' to find the largest files
> 


Hi there,

actually du does not give enough information.  'lsof' is the answer I was
looking for.  I want to look at open files that have not been written to the
drive.

Cheers,

Noah



> -- 
> Alex
> 
> Please copy the original recipients, otherwise I may not read your reply.
> 
> Howtos based on my personal use, including information about 
> setting up a firewall and creating traffic graphs with MRTG
> http://alex.kruijff.org/FreeBSD/

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Re: file system full help

[Alex de Kruijff]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 06:46:14AM -0800, Noah wrote:
> I sometimes get reports of "file system full" but not accurately because when
> viewing the drive with "df -k" I find there is adequate space on the drive. 
> Usually this is casused by log files considered larger than the available
> space on the /var directory.

That you don't have adequate space for the task at hand. In this case
compressing the log (this means the source needs to be arround wile a
new bzip file is created) and create a new fresh file.

>  I would like to see if this in fact the case.
> 
> Can somebody please remind me what commands I can use to troubleshoot this
> current condition?

Use 'du -s * | sort -n' to find the largest files

-- 
Alex

Please copy the original recipients, otherwise I may not read your reply.

Howtos based on my personal use, including information about 
setting up a firewall and creating traffic graphs with MRTG
http://alex.kruijff.org/FreeBSD/

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Re: file system

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> what is the freebsd's file system

Starting I think in FreeBSD 6.xxx FreeBSD uses UFS2 file systems.

> how manage freebsd the hardware and i/o devices

That is too much to explain in a simeple Email list.   You need to
study the FreeBSD handbook which is available online at www.freebsd.org

jerry

> 
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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Re: file system

[usleepless]

Hi Hossein,

> what is the freebsd's file system
> how manage freebsd the hardware and i/o devices

here is all you need to know for the time being:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/

regards,

usleep
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Re: File system check fails on boot

[Edward Lichtner]

> On 10/31/05, Edward Lichtner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> There's fire in the house... I recently inserted a USB memory stick and my
>> 5.4 Stable machine rebooted suddenly. I now get the following on boot :
>> 
>> Starting file system checks :
>> /dev/ad0s3a: UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
>> /dev/ad0s3a: UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY: RUN fsck MANUALLY.
>> Automatic file system check failed; help!
>> Oct. 30 20:14:53 init: /bin/sh on /etc/rc terminated abnormally, going to
>> single user mode
>> 
>> When I run fsck, I get the folllowing :
>> 
>> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
>> UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
>> UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY
>> 
>> CLEAR? [yn]
>> 
>> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
>> DUP/BAD I=2900154 OWNER=root MODE=100644
>> SIZE=93 MTIME=Mar 25 04:13 2004
>> FILE=/usr/ports/net/ldapbrowser/distinfo
>> 
>> UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY
>> 
>> REMOVE? [yn]
>> 
>> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
>> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
>> LINK COUNT DIR I=2 OWNER=root MODE=40755
>> SIZE=512 MTIME=Oct 30 17:20 2005 COUNT 21 SHOULD BE 20
>> ADJUST? [yn]
>> 
>> UNREF FILE I=471058 OWNER=root MODE=100644
>> SIZE=72 MTIME=Oct 30 19:03 2005
>> RECONNECT? [yn]
>> 
>> CLEAR? [yn]
>> 
>> I then get similar messages for a dozen files, then :
>> 
>> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
>> SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
>> SALVAGE? [yn]
>> 
>> BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS
>> SALVAGE? [yn]
>> 
>> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
>> SALVAGE? [yn]
>> 
>> And so on... Should I just answer yes to all questions and hope for the
>> best, or is there a better way of saving the day ? Needless to say, my whole
>> system is on /dev/ad0s3a.
>> Also, what could have caused the problem ? I recently updated my kernel to
>> include HFS support. Could it be linked ?
>> Thanks all,
>> Edward
>> 
>> 
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> 
> If you have no idea, what's happened and what's
> damaged, I'm afraid, you'll have to run fsck -y (or
> place fsck_y_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf to
> always dangerously agree to everything) - and
> hope for the best.
> 
Hi Andrew and Glenn,
fsck -y did the trick and the system is now back on its feetŠ
(Andrew, for a married man like myself, dangerously agreeing to everything
is common practice ;-)
Thanks guys,
Edward


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Re: File system check fails on boot

[Glenn Dawson]

At 02:06 AM 10/31/2005, Edward Lichtner wrote:

Hi all,
There's fire in the house... I recently inserted a USB memory stick and my
5.4 Stable machine rebooted suddenly. I now get the following on boot :

Starting file system checks :
/dev/ad0s3a: UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
/dev/ad0s3a: UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY: RUN fsck MANUALLY.
Automatic file system check failed; help!
Oct. 30 20:14:53 init: /bin/sh on /etc/rc terminated abnormally, going to
single user mode

When I run fsck, I get the folllowing :

** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY

CLEAR? [yn]

** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
DUP/BAD I=2900154 OWNER=root MODE=100644
SIZE=93 MTIME=Mar 25 04:13 2004
FILE=/usr/ports/net/ldapbrowser/distinfo

UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY

REMOVE? [yn]

** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
LINK COUNT DIR I=2 OWNER=root MODE=40755
SIZE=512 MTIME=Oct 30 17:20 2005 COUNT 21 SHOULD BE 20
ADJUST? [yn]

UNREF FILE I=471058 OWNER=root MODE=100644
SIZE=72 MTIME=Oct 30 19:03 2005
RECONNECT? [yn]

CLEAR? [yn]

I then get similar messages for a dozen files, then :

** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
SALVAGE? [yn]

BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS
SALVAGE? [yn]

FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
SALVAGE? [yn]

And so on... Should I just answer yes to all questions and hope for the
best, or is there a better way of saving the day ? Needless to say, my whole
system is on /dev/ad0s3a.


Anytime a file system is not unmounted properly you'll get some 
quantity of errors from fsck the next time the system tries to mount 
it.  If there was no activity on the file system, fsck can typically 
deal with things on it's own.  When there were open files and some 
level of activity on the file system, you'll get the types of errors 
that you are seeing now. Most of the time, just saying yes to 
everything will work just fine, and you can move on.  fsck -y will 
keep you from having to actually type 'y' at each prompt, which is 
handy because sometimes there are a lot of those prompts.



Also, what could have caused the problem ? I recently updated my kernel to
include HFS support. Could it be linked ?


There's a port that will allow you to read hfs filesystems.  It's in 
/usr/ports/emulators/hfs


-Glenn


Thanks all,
Edward


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Re: File system check fails on boot

[Andrew P.]

On 10/31/05, Edward Lichtner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> There's fire in the house... I recently inserted a USB memory stick and my
> 5.4 Stable machine rebooted suddenly. I now get the following on boot :
>
> Starting file system checks :
> /dev/ad0s3a: UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
> /dev/ad0s3a: UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY: RUN fsck MANUALLY.
> Automatic file system check failed; help!
> Oct. 30 20:14:53 init: /bin/sh on /etc/rc terminated abnormally, going to
> single user mode
>
> When I run fsck, I get the folllowing :
>
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> UNKNOWN FILE TYPE I=2900154
> UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY
>
> CLEAR? [yn]
>
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> DUP/BAD I=2900154 OWNER=root MODE=100644
> SIZE=93 MTIME=Mar 25 04:13 2004
> FILE=/usr/ports/net/ldapbrowser/distinfo
>
> UNEXPECTED SOFT UPDATE INCONSISTENCY
>
> REMOVE? [yn]
>
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> LINK COUNT DIR I=2 OWNER=root MODE=40755
> SIZE=512 MTIME=Oct 30 17:20 2005 COUNT 21 SHOULD BE 20
> ADJUST? [yn]
>
> UNREF FILE I=471058 OWNER=root MODE=100644
> SIZE=72 MTIME=Oct 30 19:03 2005
> RECONNECT? [yn]
>
> CLEAR? [yn]
>
> I then get similar messages for a dozen files, then :
>
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
> SALVAGE? [yn]
>
> BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS
> SALVAGE? [yn]
>
> FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK
> SALVAGE? [yn]
>
> And so on... Should I just answer yes to all questions and hope for the
> best, or is there a better way of saving the day ? Needless to say, my whole
> system is on /dev/ad0s3a.
> Also, what could have caused the problem ? I recently updated my kernel to
> include HFS support. Could it be linked ?
> Thanks all,
> Edward
>
>
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>

If you have no idea, what's happened and what's
damaged, I'm afraid, you'll have to run fsck -y (or
place fsck_y_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf to
always dangerously agree to everything) - and
hope for the best.
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Re: file system type

[Kevin Kinsey]

Robert Munn wrote:
Is there any way of detecting the type of file system on a disk,  
specifically UFS2 or UFS1?
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You mean as an operator, or as a programmer?
Obviously, as an operator, mount(8) gives you this information
after a brief visual parsing.
I'm not a C programmer, but a quick lookup with apropos(1)
yields the following:
getvfsbyname(3)  - get information about a file system
HTH,
Kevin Kinsey
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Re: file system type

[cpghost]

On Sat, Mar 19, 2005 at 09:27:57AM -0500, Robert Munn wrote:
> Is there any way of detecting the type of file system on a disk,  
> specifically UFS2 or UFS1?

If all you need to know is wether a UFS file system is UFS1 or UFS2,
you could use /sbin/dumpfs

-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: File System mounting prob

[Kris Maglione]

I can't find kppp(the dial up connecter that used to come with
KDE) anymore!?? If KDE is not providing it any more, then is
there any other (GUI) substitute for it?
 

kppp is part of the kdenetwork port. It should automagically appear on 
the kde menu under Internet (maybe Network, don't remember which). If 
not, just add it yourself of use the "Run command" applett and just type 
kppp


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: File System mounting prob

[Rod Person]

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 6:20 pm, Emon wrote:
> Is there any way to mount a filesystem, as a generel user? so
> that everytime I put a cd in the CD player I dont have to su to
> root just to mount it!
>

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html

>
> I can't find kppp(the dial up connecter that used to come with
> KDE) anymore!?? If KDE is not providing it any more, then is
> there any other (GUI) substitute for it?

I used to use ppxp long ago it's still in the ports. It simple and easy to 
use.

-- 
Rod


"If you stay the same long enough you'll be in 
 style some day again."  Cren Dog 


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Re: File System Descriptions

[Joshua Lokken]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:48:37 +0300, Odhiambo Washington
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear people,
> 
> Does anyone know of a place where they describe the differences between
> the commonly known filesystem types - UFS, UFS2, NTFS, EXT2, EXT3,
> REISERFS, FAT32 (spit!) .. well, mostly the ones related to Unix I hope.
> I would like to know why one type is preferred over the others, or
> something like that.

http://www.parkautomat.net/fs-comp.html
http://www.allunix.org/_Filesystems_-_again-9309072-5726-a.html

Those look like they may contain some or most of the
filesystems you're inquiring about.   HTH,

-- 
Joshua Lokken
Open Source Advocate
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Re: File system replication between servers

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Sep 04), Marc G. Fournier said:
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Dan Nelson wrote:
> > How about a shared SCSI drive, filesystems only mounted on the
> > master. When the master fails, the slave fscks the filesystems,
> > mounts them, and becomes the master.  Tried and true.  You could
> > even use background fsck and get immediate failover.
> 
> need to do this above the hardware layer ... am looking at 50% of
> services running on each of 2 servers, with failover to 100% running
> on one of the servers if the other goes down ...

Since FreeBSD doesn't lock SCSI devices afaik, you should be able to
mount separate filesystems on different machines with no problems.

-- 
Dan Nelson
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Re: File system replication between servers

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Sep 04), Marc G. Fournier said:
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Dan Nelson wrote:
> > You could even do it without shared storage if you use geom_gate
> > and geom_{mirror,vinum,ccd} to keep two identical disks on each
> > machine in sync. When the master crashes and comes back up as a
> > slave, the mirror code will update its disks.
> 
> what is geom_gate?  checked 'man geom_gate' on my 5.x machine, and
> nothing shows up ...

The geom layer is not very well-documented, but geom_gate's manpages
are at ggatec, ggated, and ggatel.

-- 
Dan Nelson
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Re: File system replication between servers

[Marc G. Fournier]

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Dan Nelson wrote:
In the last episode (Sep 04), Marc G. Fournier said:
Does anyone know of any software that will run on FreeBSD that would
allow you to keep two servers in sync?  All writes to /dir1 on
server1 would go to /dir1 on server2, and all writes to /dir2 on
server2 would go to /dir2 on server1?
I've thought about rsync, but am trying to get it as close to real
time as I can, and on large file systems, rsync would just get too
far behind, too quickly ...
I've started to look at Coda6, but so far what I'm reading through
the docs makes it sound like it may not be suitable ...
What I'm looking for is a hot failover solution using FreeBSD ... if
server1 goes down, server2 can start up and continue working ... when
server1 comes back up again, changes to server2 could be re-sync'd
back to server1, and server1 could once more resume its duties ...
How about a shared SCSI drive, filesystems only mounted on the master.
When the master fails, the slave fscks the filesystems, mounts them,
and becomes the master.  Tried and true.  You could even use background
fsck and get immediate failover.
need to do this above the hardware layer ... am looking at 50% of services 
running on each of 2 servers, with failover to 100% running on one of the 
servers if the other goes down ...

reading through coda's docs, I think I can do it using that, just curious 
if there is a simpler setup that could be used ...

You could even do it without shared storage if you use geom_gate and
geom_{mirror,vinum,ccd} to keep two identical disks on each machine in
sync. When the master crashes and comes back up as a slave, the mirror
code will update its disks.
what is geom_gate?  checked 'man geom_gate' on my 5.x machine, and nothing 
shows up ...


Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Yahoo!: yscrappy  ICQ: 7615664
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Re: File system replication between servers

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Sep 04), Marc G. Fournier said:
> Does anyone know of any software that will run on FreeBSD that would
> allow you to keep two servers in sync?  All writes to /dir1 on
> server1 would go to /dir1 on server2, and all writes to /dir2 on
> server2 would go to /dir2 on server1?
> 
> I've thought about rsync, but am trying to get it as close to real
> time as I can, and on large file systems, rsync would just get too
> far behind, too quickly ...
> 
> I've started to look at Coda6, but so far what I'm reading through
> the docs makes it sound like it may not be suitable ...
> 
> What I'm looking for is a hot failover solution using FreeBSD ... if
> server1 goes down, server2 can start up and continue working ... when
> server1 comes back up again, changes to server2 could be re-sync'd
> back to server1, and server1 could once more resume its duties ...

How about a shared SCSI drive, filesystems only mounted on the master. 
When the master fails, the slave fscks the filesystems, mounts them,
and becomes the master.  Tried and true.  You could even use background
fsck and get immediate failover.

You could even do it without shared storage if you use geom_gate and
geom_{mirror,vinum,ccd} to keep two identical disks on each machine in
sync. When the master crashes and comes back up as a slave, the mirror
code will update its disks.

-- 
Dan Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: file system setup for new system - recommendations?

[Gary Mulder]

Just my $0.02NZ on this question:
First off partitions -
The first thing I do in single user mode in FreeBSD is mount /usr to access 
basic commands such as more, etc., so what is the point of having / and 
/usr on separate partitions? Thus I usually allocate 4 to 8GB to / and 
don't have a separate /usr partition. Can anyone posit a problem with 
combining / and /usr?

It was (as far as I know) an old rule of thumb to have swap twice your 
physical memory size. This was in the good ole days when memory was 
expensive and disk was comparatively cheap. These days if you are having to 
use two times your memory's worth of swap in normal activity it is time to 
buy more memory. However, since crash dumps are stored in the swap 
partition (note that they're not by default, you need to define dumpdev in 
/etc/rc.conf, see rc.conf(5) for more details) you'll want your swap as 
large as the maximum memory you expect to have on the system.

/tmp should be on a separate partition to prevent overflow of the / 
partition. A few GB of disk here is nice, dependent on the nature of 
programs you plan to run.

/var should be sized appropriate to what will be logged/stored in /var. For 
a Desktop, a few GB is probably sufficient. For a server with mail, web, 
ftp, etc. services 4-8GB is nice.

The remainder is traditionally allocated to /home.
Next Vinum and backups -
Vinum provides a number of configurations (RAID 0, 1, 1+0, 0+1, 5, etc.) 
for data redundancy. It requires two or more disks (depending on which RAID 
level), typically of the same type and size on separate controllers. It is 
somewhat complex to setup but provides a lot of flexibility in configuration.

It is important to note that using RAID for data redundancy is NOT data 
backup. A redundant RAID configuration will happy mirror file system 
corruption, inadvertent user file deletions, etc.

Backup however implies a secure and independent copy of the primary system 
data. Ideally this copy is not just kept on the same disk as the primary 
data. How useful are your backups if you lose the drive that has both your 
system and its backups?


Here is a proposed setup for a small to medium sized Unix server with say a 
120GB and 80GB ATA disks:

Set up the 80GB disk as the master on the first controller. Set up the 
120GB drive as master on the second controller and the CDROM drive as slave.

Side Note: Accessing the CDROM drive with this configuration may then 
greatly impact performance of the 120GB drive and you may instead want to 
put the 120GB drive as the slave on controller 1. However there is then the 
chance that if either hard drive goes bad it will hang controller 1 (a 
known problem with ATA controllers) and thus the system. If you use the 
CDROM infrequently I feel it is best to have the second hard drive on 
controller 2 as master and CDROM as slave. YMMV.

Partition map:
/   -  8GB
swap-  1GB
/tmp-  4GB
/var-  4GB
/home   - 63GB (ie. the rest of the disk).
Next use the following instructions to set up vinum to mirror the 80GB 
drive to the first 80GB of the 120GB drive. You have to be VERY careful 
with setting the partition types, calculating the disklabel offsets and 
corresponding vinum offsets and making sure the disk labels are written 
correctly:

http://devel.reinikainen.net/docs/how-to/Vinum/
The remaining 40GB of the 120GB drive can then be mounted as an unmirrored 
/backup partition. Alternatively, if you have two identical drives (or a 
third smaller drive) configure a mirrored /backup partition (or dedicate 
the third drive) for even more backup redundancy.

There are then a number of methods to perform backup, such as dump/restore, 
tar, cpio, Amanda, rsync-backup. My preference is GNU tar due to its 
portability among Unixes and other OSes. An example of creating a 
compressed full backup would be:

nice tar --exclude "/backup" --totals -cj -f /backup/`date +%s``.tar.bz2 /
This could be run out of cron say every night or weekend. With some 
scripting it could be made more space efficient by using the 
"--listed-incremental" option of GNU tar to say to full backups each 
weekend and incremental backups each day.

One program I have recently looked into is rdiff-backup. It uses rsync 
libraries to make an uncompressed mirror (as in copy, not RAID 1) of the 
entire system and then keep backward diffs of changes to the system so that 
it is very easy and fast to do point-in-time restores (or even use the 
mirror directly with chroot in extremis).

The only issue with rdiff-backup that I can see is that unlike traditional 
full image plus incremental backups, rdiff uses current mirror image minus 
incremental diffs, which means if you lose your mirror image you can no 
longer do point-in-time restores of the entire system. You can however 
restore files that have changed from the diffs.

Gary
--
Gary Mulder   
Info Tech, Inc.
5700