Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 7:55:06 pm Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:00 PM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On Tuesday, February 04, 2014 09:55:13 AM Michael Dexter wrote: > > > May I suggest you take this all to a personal blog? > > > > I agree. You can use a blog on petitecloud.org if you wish, but the purpose > > of this list is discussing virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports > > including > > jails/vimage, hypervisors (bhyve), and accelerated guest support (e.g. Xen > > HVM > > and Hyper-V drivers). An occasional note about petitecloud may be > > warranted, > > but the current volume is excessive. Also, this list is not suitable for > > use > > as a support forum for a commercial product. It is certainly appropriate > > for > > bug reports in the aforementioned list of topics (e.g. bhyve bugs or bhyve > > performance testing results) that may come out of "downstream" bug reports. > > 2. You seem to be under the impression that PetiteCloud is a > commercial product. It is in fact 100% Free Open Source (BSD license) and > Open Knowledge. Even derivative open source projects tend to provide their own fora for bug reports, etc. (see, for example, PC-BSD and pfSense). If a bug reported in their system is the result of a bug in FreeBSD then it ends up being logged as a FreeBSD issue as well, but the latter part is what occurs on FreeBSD lists. > 4. Currently the only available place to discuss cloud computing at > all on FreeBSD is -virtualization@. A -cloud@ list might make more sense if > there was one. We would strongly urge the creation of such a list, because > we consider FreeBSD to be, without question, the best operating system for > truly stable and robust cloud computing, and we would strongly encourage > the FreeBSD Foundation to emphasize this in its advocacy. In the meantime, > please note that PetiteCloud is not yet a full-fledged cloud platform, but > currently is little more than just a front end for various hypervisors > including bhyve (our preferred hypervisor I suspect that the your posts would be just as on or off-topic on cloud@ as they would be on virtualization. I do not think we need an extra mailing list at this time. > 5.. We would appreciate clarification on what kinds of announcements > are appropriate here. For example, we've been posting calls for testing of > new versions of PetiteCloud for almost five months with no objection from > anyone (except for an early question from Michael Dexter about how truly > open-source we were) until we added support for a non-FreeBSD host. May we > continue to post CFT's that contain FreeBSD-related issues (including > making sure we didn't break anything related to our FreeBSD support when > adding features required by other OS's). I think CFTs are fine for now. However, I think you should strive to setup your own lists for support and general petitecloud-specific discussion on petitecloud.org itself. This is the model that other projects built on FreeBSD use. > b. As soon the appropriate person at the FreeBSD foundation > contacts us, we will arrange to transfer freebsd-openstack.org to the > foundation, if the FreeBSD foundation desires to be in charge of such a > portal. We do want to keep editorial control until we can put a basic > content management system in place and populate it with some initial > content. You own this domain so you are free to do with it as you wish as far as I am concerned. If you wish to work with the Foundation you can e-mail their board to discuss that further. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On 2/6/14 7:02 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >We still have not received any guidance on what sort of CFT's (if any) >are allowed on -virtualization@ for open-source projects that aim to be >FreeBSD ports. That's not how it works. Read past list corespondent to get a feel for the tone of the list. Some lists are extremely loose and some are very firm such as one-way security announcements. If you have a doubt or a question, politely ask it and you will find that people are astonishingly helpful. Tell them how it's going to be and they will at best ignore but possibly shun or flame you. The BSD developers are the finest people I have found on this planet and I highly suggest you appreciate what they provide all of us in exchange for either an implied approval, the occasional thanks, the occasional beer or best of all, a meaningful bug report or patch. Please consider this: BSD Unix contains millions of lines of quality code that took millions of person hours to produce. Statistically, there is no dent that any of us can make on it that is warrants arrogance. Companies have come and gone who thought they could laugh their way to the bank by forking it with some multi-person-year diff that they thought the community would never catch up with. bhyve, pf and ZFS show that the community will ALWAYS be ahead of the game and that some companies grasp the value of sharing key technologies like bhyve and ZFS. The community and your role will best function if its extremely simple rules are followed in the context of its extremely reasonable and generous license. In short, do your homework and you will be very glad you did because it will open many doors for you and earn the trust of amazing developers, administrators and users around the world. This is my personal opinion but it is based on over 20 years of BSD Unix use and a dozen years of active community participation. Pause. Listen. Listen some more. Ask questions. Help out and receive priceless help from some of the best developers on the planet. Michael ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
Michael Dexter wrote: > Please hesitate before you write and determine if this is the > correct list and your post is in accordance with the above > policies. 1. We still have not received any guidance on what sort of CFT's (if any) are allowed on -virtualization@ for open-source projects that aim to be FreeBSD ports. 1. The actual message you were taking issue with above was primarily a public thanks to someone for giving us a possible solution to a problem we had. I also made the off-topic "announcement" you objected to for the purpose of updating the -virtualization@ list on our progress in creating our own alternative to using -virtualization@ as our preferred communication channel as requested by you and John Baldwin. > and my personal favorite, a request for a bhyve developer to sign > an NDA to see these. The NDA request was NOT posted on the -virtualization@ list; that was in a private email from Aryeh Friedman to Peter Grehan and him alone, way back in early August 2013. Peter immediately rejected all private communication and directed Aryeh to post everything to the -virtualization@ list. We concluded that Peter was right that everything should be open knowledge. Anyhow, we agree that -virtualization@ should not be the place for discussion of cloud computing because it crosses so many disciplines it does not fully fit into any currently-existing FreeBSD list. For that reason, we again suggest making a -cloud@ list. Until then, -virtualization@seems to us to be the closest-to-suitable option, though far from a perfect fit. ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On 2/6/14 9:36 AM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > Due to scheduling reasons we decided to spin up a third instance at RootBSD > dedicated to mail and our non open source work. We should have everything > set up and ready to go in the next few days. But since I am always looking > out for new tricks, thanks. This news does not, under any circumstances belong on a technical list relating to virtualization technologies in FreeBSD as per the project's published guidelines: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#idp62859952 There are countless resources on the Internet to help you debug your systems and development work but this is not one of them. It is great that you have found bhyve useful and we all look forward to your bug reports, patches and success stories. So far you have inundated this list with broken download URL's, misnamed software archives, non-resolving hosts, proposals of marketing materials and my personal favorite, a request for a bhyve developer to sign an NDA to see these. Please hesitate before you write and determine if this is the correct list and your post is in accordance with the above policies. Michael Dexter bhyve volunteer ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Kurt Lidl wrote: >1. We'll be creating our own mailing list as soon as we can solve these >> >>technical issues: >> >>a. Mailman (under apache22) seems to insist on being on port >> 80. >> We have no machine that is on the public internet that has 80 not used by >> tomcat. Any ideas on how to fix this? (Both machines are at RootBSD and >> have 9.2-RELEASE on them.) >> > > This part is easy. > > You run a reverse proxy on your external IP address, and then you have > it pass stuff for one virtual host to the server running tomcat, > and have it pass requests for the mailman host to the server running > apache22. > > Those "servers" could just be processes on the same machine, bound to > different ports, or they could be complete virtual machines. It's > entirely up to you as to how to implement and run it to best serve > your interests. Due to scheduling reasons we decided to spin up a third instance at RootBSD dedicated to mail and our non open source work. We should have everything set up and ready to go in the next few days. But since I am always looking out for new tricks, thanks. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
1. We'll be creating our own mailing list as soon as we can solve these technical issues: a. Mailman (under apache22) seems to insist on being on port 80. We have no machine that is on the public internet that has 80 not used by tomcat. Any ideas on how to fix this? (Both machines are at RootBSD and have 9.2-RELEASE on them.) This part is easy. You run a reverse proxy on your external IP address, and then you have it pass stuff for one virtual host to the server running tomcat, and have it pass requests for the mailman host to the server running apache22. Those "servers" could just be processes on the same machine, bound to different ports, or they could be complete virtual machines. It's entirely up to you as to how to implement and run it to best serve your interests. -Kurt ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:00 PM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, February 04, 2014 09:55:13 AM Michael Dexter wrote: > > May I suggest you take this all to a personal blog? > > I agree. You can use a blog on petitecloud.org if you wish, but the > purpose > of this list is discussing virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports > including > jails/vimage, hypervisors (bhyve), and accelerated guest support (e.g. Xen > HVM > and Hyper-V drivers). An occasional note about petitecloud may be > warranted, > but the current volume is excessive. Also, this list is not suitable for > use > as a support forum for a commercial product. It is certainly appropriate > for > bug reports in the aforementioned list of topics (e.g. bhyve bugs or bhyve > performance testing results) that may come out of "downstream" bug reports. > 1. We'll be creating our own mailing list as soon as we can solve these technical issues: a. Mailman (under apache22) seems to insist on being on port 80. We have no machine that is on the public internet that has 80 not used by tomcat. Any ideas on how to fix this? (Both machines are at RootBSD and have 9.2-RELEASE on them.) b. The way our internal build system works, updating petitecloud.org also triggers a snapshot release of PetiteCloud and it is currently in a state that is not releasable (massive security issues on the Linux end [FreeBSD has no such issues]) 2. You seem to be under the impression that PetiteCloud is a commercial product. It is in fact 100% Free Open Source (BSD license) and Open Knowledge. We do plan to sell products that are ENABLED by PetiteCloud but are NOT REQUIRED by PetiteCloud in any way. (Thus there will be no "enterprise edition", "secret sauce", high-priced "training", etc.) Also we eventually plan, once there is enough interest, to form a foundation on the FreeBSD/Apache model and transfer PetiteCloud completely over to it. The reason for this is that we do not see any "honest" way to make money from PetiteCloud itself, but only from various types of products it enables. We will also encourage anyone who wants to build products or open source (also hopefully open knowledge) projects on top of PetiteCloud (even if they are direct competitors of our commerical products) 3. Yes the comments on why we now have support for a non-FreeBSD host (as well as for FreeBSD, our preferred OS) really belong on a different forum. Since we have not yet created said forum, for the temporary technical reasons mentioned above, -virtualization@ seemed the only appropriate place to post our announcement, since the actual announcement was only a CFT and 100% of our users are FreeBSD. 4. Currently the only available place to discuss cloud computing at all on FreeBSD is -virtualization@. A -cloud@ list might make more sense if there was one. We would strongly urge the creation of such a list, because we consider FreeBSD to be, without question, the best operating system for truly stable and robust cloud computing, and we would strongly encourage the FreeBSD Foundation to emphasize this in its advocacy. In the meantime, please note that PetiteCloud is not yet a full-fledged cloud platform, but currently is little more than just a front end for various hypervisors including bhyve (our preferred hypervisor 5.. We would appreciate clarification on what kinds of announcements are appropriate here. For example, we've been posting calls for testing of new versions of PetiteCloud for almost five months with no objection from anyone (except for an early question from Michael Dexter about how truly open-source we were) until we added support for a non-FreeBSD host. May we continue to post CFT's that contain FreeBSD-related issues (including making sure we didn't break anything related to our FreeBSD support when adding features required by other OS's). 6. Since we purposely do not collect user email addresses at any point in the download and/or install, we will have no other quick way, besides -virtualization@ itself, to tell users where to ask questions about PetiteCloud now that -virtualization@ is no longer the correct place to send things. Thus we will need to make at least one more purely administrative/support oriented post before the move is complete 7. Miscellaneous a. We will sending the $50 we had offered to give someone on -emulation@ to the FreeBSD foundation, earmarked for work on virtualization and cloud computing. (The person to whom we offered the $50, for a solution to a problem we had been struggling with, told us to keep it.) b. As soon the appropriate person at the FreeBSD foundation contacts us, we will arrange to transfer freebsd-openstack.org to the foundation, if the FreeBSD foundation desires to be in charge of such a portal. We do want to keep editorial control until we can put a basic content management system in place and populate it with some initial content. -- Aryeh M
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
On Tuesday, February 04, 2014 09:55:13 AM Michael Dexter wrote: > May I suggest you take this all to a personal blog? I agree. You can use a blog on petitecloud.org if you wish, but the purpose of this list is discussing virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports including jails/vimage, hypervisors (bhyve), and accelerated guest support (e.g. Xen HVM and Hyper-V drivers). An occasional note about petitecloud may be warranted, but the current volume is excessive. Also, this list is not suitable for use as a support forum for a commercial product. It is certainly appropriate for bug reports in the aforementioned list of topics (e.g. bhyve bugs or bhyve performance testing results) that may come out of "downstream" bug reports. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
May I suggest you take this all to a personal blog? Michael On 2/2/14 2:22 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > Even though FreeBSD will always be my preferred OS for both personal and > professional use it is sad to say in today's world if you do not support > Linux and your run on Unix-like OS's then to everyone out side [insert > favorite OS here] you don't exist. This is even more so for a effort like > PetiteCloud that needs the widest possible user base to grow (the user base > is what will attract apps which will attract more users and so forth). For > the above reasons it is obvious that PetiteCloud *MUST* support linux as > host or we simply are irrelevant to mainstream cloud computing users. > > It is likely less painful to do it now then later when we have more devices > and drivers and such to have to sort out. Therefore I have posted a > developer's snapshot of 0.2.4 with Linux hosting on the normal download > link (don't worry the FreeBSD build still works fine). Take a look at the > developers section of the site for details of how to install and test it. > ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
CFT: Very rough draft of PetiteCloud 0.2.4 (Linux as a host)
Even though FreeBSD will always be my preferred OS for both personal and professional use it is sad to say in today's world if you do not support Linux and your run on Unix-like OS's then to everyone out side [insert favorite OS here] you don't exist. This is even more so for a effort like PetiteCloud that needs the widest possible user base to grow (the user base is what will attract apps which will attract more users and so forth). For the above reasons it is obvious that PetiteCloud *MUST* support linux as host or we simply are irrelevant to mainstream cloud computing users. It is likely less painful to do it now then later when we have more devices and drivers and such to have to sort out. Therefore I have posted a developer's snapshot of 0.2.4 with Linux hosting on the normal download link (don't worry the FreeBSD build still works fine). Take a look at the developers section of the site for details of how to install and test it. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org ___ freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
