[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2017-04-04 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #13, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

Patch v2 fixes the double entry in the tech tree, and revises some related
code comments.

>We could use negative Unit_Recover to remove hit points to the new riverboat
unit every turn (3 turns of lifetime outside cities).
At the end, I did not include this effect. This patch lets players continue
v2.5 games almost as if nothing happened.

If we are going to kill the old triremes, I think it is not worth to create a
legacy class for them.

(file #29915)
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File name: civ2civ3-trireme_river_galley_v2-S2_6.patch Size:18 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2017-04-03 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #12, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

I have found a bug in my patch. The trireme is showed twice in the tech tree.
I'll upload the fix to hostedredmine when/if I can register/contact the
admins.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-30 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #10, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

>An intermediate solution could be to decrease the movement points to 1 when
on river.
After some tests, I see the same issues. It was not a useful idea.

>like adding a retirement effect that disbands them 10 turns after the old
savegame is loaded
We could use negative Unit_Recover to remove hit points to the new riverboat
unit every turn. For example:


; 3 turns of lifetime outside cities (and no recover inside cities)
[effect_riverboat]
name= "Unit_Recover"
value   = -4
reqs=
{ "type", "name", "range"
  "UnitClass", "Riverboat", "Local"
}



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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-23 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #9, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

>Units transported by triremes sailing on a river loose all their move points
ATM the trireme moves.
Such feature would be an improvement, but it'd not prevent all the issues
about transported units.
For example, a unit does not require move points to be unloaded and loaded to
other transport in the same river tile (or inside a city), so chained movement
would be still possible.

Anyway, if the only purpose of triremes on rivers is to increase the movement
of units, this can be simulated with the reduced costs of the movement along
the river tiles, that requires much less micromanaging. The same than rails
does not require a train unit in order to take advantage of the extra
movement.

>I attach a draft patch
Now that I opened your patch, I'm not sure if it is worth to introduce a whole
new unit class just for this purpose.

>I vaguely wonder about doing something to weed out old Riverboat units, ...
or giving them zero moves in the new ruleset but allowing them to be disbanded
for production points
I like how it sounds.
An intermediate solution could be to decrease the movement points to 1 when on
river, so it is not worth to use triremes further inland, but only near the
coast. I'll test it.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-12 Thread Jacob Nevins 
Follow-up Comment #8, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

> The old river-moving one is unbuildable, so it can be in the 
> game only if it's old savegame (or via editor).
I vaguely wonder about doing something to weed out old Riverboat units, like
adding a retirement effect that disbands them 10 turns after the old savegame
is loaded (...this probably isn't possible), or giving them zero moves in the
new ruleset but allowing them to be disbanded for production points, or
something like that. Just to avoid the incentive to hang on to your special
unique riverboats forever.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-12 Thread Christian Knoke 
Follow-up Comment #7, patch #7079 (project freeciv):


David Fernandez:

> The ability of triremes to move on rivers introduces some exploits that I do
not know how to prevent: 
> 1) It is possible to bypass the rule "slow invasion" by moving from ocean to
river. 
> 2) It is possible to use chains of triremes to allow one unit to move an
unlimited number of tiles (along a river) in one single turn (by repeating
load-move-unload, load...) 
> 3) Even without chaining, a unit can move in the same turn inside a trireme
and then continue his own movement along the river. 
> It feels like using twice the bonus to movement on river and it causes a lot
of micromanagement. 
> I think the bonus to movement by river is a good representation of sails
being used to move the units faster. I suggest to remove this capability of
triremes for good.


Units transported by triremes sailing on a river loose all their move points
ATM the trireme moves.

Christian


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-11 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #6, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

I like your solution. I'll test it.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-05-10 Thread Marko Lindqvist 
Update of patch #7079 (project freeciv):

  Status:  Ready For Test => In Progress

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Follow-up Comment #5:

I attach a draft patch (S2_6) in case you want to progress with this.

In essence it adds the Trireme-that-cant-travel-rives as a new unit type and
class. The old river-moving one is unbuildable, so it can be in the game only
if it's old savegame (or via editor). The old one has the rule_name "Trireme"
(for loading old savegames correctly) but display name "Riverboat", while the
new one has display name "Trireme" and rule_name "SeaTrireme".

(file #27370)
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Additional Item Attachment:

File name: SeaTrireme.patch   Size:10 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-04-27 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #4, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

They sometimes use Triremes on rivers for longturn online games, so they might
not be as unbalanced as I think.
If it is problematic we can try to keep it for now.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-04-26 Thread Marko Lindqvist 
Follow-up Comment #3, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

It's quite likely we need to make some code changes first, for sensible
handling of 2.5 savegames with triremes up in the river.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-04-14 Thread Marko Lindqvist 
Update of patch #7079 (project freeciv):

  Status:None => Ready For Test 
 Planned Release: => 2.6.0, 3.0.0   


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-04-09 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #2, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

And the patch...

(file #27075)
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File name: civ2civ3-trireme_river_v2-S2_6 Size:3 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-04-09 Thread David Fernandez 
Follow-up Comment #1, patch #7079 (project freeciv):

New version of the patch that includes some related changes:
- Make Trireme obsolete by Caravels, again.
- Fix reference in the Lighthouse wonder.
- Update Readme. 

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #7079] civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers

2016-03-26 Thread David Fernandez 
URL:
  

 Summary: civ2civ3 - Disallow Triremes to navigate rivers
 Project: Freeciv
Submitted by: bardo
Submitted on: Sat 26 Mar 2016 08:26:25 PM UTC
Category: rulesets
Priority: 5 - Normal
  Status: None
 Privacy: Public
 Assigned to: None
Originator Email: 
 Open/Closed: Open
 Discussion Lock: Any
 Planned Release: 

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Details:

The ability of triremes to move on rivers introduces some exploits that I do
not know how to prevent:
1) It is possible to bypass the rule "slow invasion" by moving from ocean to
river.
2) It is possible to use chains of triremes to allow one unit to move an
unlimited number of tiles (along a river) in one single turn (by repeating
load-move-unload, load...)
3) Even without chaining, a unit can move in the same turn inside a trireme
and then continue his own movement along the river.
It feels like using twice the bonus to movement on river and it causes a lot
of micromanagement.

I think the bonus to movement by river is a good representation of sails being
used to move the units faster. I suggest to remove this capability of triremes
for good.



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File Attachments:


---
Date: Sat 26 Mar 2016 08:26:25 PM UTC  Name: civ2civ3-trireme_river-S2_6.patch
 Size: 1kB   By: bardo



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