Re: plain text please
At 12:50 AM -0400 7/18/2010, Kevin Barth wrote: For those of you arguing that anyone's machine can display HTML and styled text, that's not the point. One of the posts that triggered this came through in huge blue letters on my system. In the past, some posters have sent HTML that displayed as fine print only a lawyer could love. The point of using plain text is to allow each subscriber control display parameters at his/her end as best suits them, rather than to force them to wade through annoying or unreadable fonts. Yes, there are always a few folks out there who, out of ignorance or misguided desire to express themselves have to use an oddball font. I'm confused. The two paragraphs above seem more like comment and response than your own reply. But there's no standard attribution or quoting to designate such. Is this how your idea of HTML-based emails would work? Seems it would be more productive to address those individuals directly and ask them to change specific aspects of their markup rather than insist on a blanket suppression of all markup by all users. Address those individuals directly... Ok... Kevin, are you volunteering to do all that - to contact each and every one of those users and hand-hold them thru the process? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
I opt to receive all my Lists in Digest Format. If a post is in anything but plain text, it doesn't come through as a readable. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On 7/17/10 10:18 PM, Dan wrote: [HTML stripped, as necessary] *snip* Remember that the purpose of these LEM mailing lists is TECHNICAL SUPPORT, not pretty animated icon cutsie email chatty please pass the nail polish. That's a good one Dan, I'll have to remember that one. I don't speak for the other techies on these lists... but wading thru HTML-based emails, just like TOP POSTED and UNTRIMMED messages, is a WASTE of my time. My time is very limited. I can view a couple of pretty emails, and get lost in all the formatting added by each replier, and botched along the way... Or I can quickly go thru whole threads of well-formatted plain text - and provide technical answers. Remember the part about the purpose of these lists As well as headache inducing, foaming at the mouth inducing, and so on. Frankly, if you're dying to send pretty messages then go find a service that's Forum based. Myself, I'll continue to hit cmd-D as soon as I open a gaudy POS HTML email on these groups. *nods* And I might add the space needed to store this 'stuff'. Dan touched on the subject with As for your mootness... when I'm on a metered connection, I'm paying per kilobyte. How 'bout if I bill you each time you send 1 KB of text in a 4 KB message?. Somewhere out there, the list is being archived and the mail servers are tossing the packets around to everyone else while storing it locally, at least temporary. That drive space could probably be used for more important stuff than HTML in email that bloats up the size of said email. Somewhere I had a printout of an email generated by one of the worst offenders out there, microsoft outlook. For about a line of actual text, the formatting code that send it out bloated it up to almost two pages of hard copy. Did you note that I said /about/ a line? It wasn't even a full 80 characters. And before anyone pulls out the 'drives are cheap' counterpoint, yes, they are... for /consumer grade/ drives. Ever priced a /real/ enterprise grade drive for a typical server? Lets take a quick look at the current price leader for servers... Dell. Searching the Dell website for poweredge hard drive, one of the first hits is a 300 GB 15,000 RPM SAS Hard Drive for Dell PowerEdge Servers. The low-low price for this (smallish drive by todays consumer level drive standards) has a Starting Price of $567.99 US Dollars, and the description for said drive does not show if it comes with the drive caddy needed to use it in a typical rack mount server (that's usually another 30 to 50 dollars more, on the low end). And 300 gig is a good sized drive for enterprise grade drives. Most of, oh, say Seagate's line of drives, max out at 600 gig, with 2 TB being the new top end. Hitachi and Western Digital appear to offer the larger sizes in one or two more lines than Seagate, but the overall capacity of the drives is about the same. Seagate's 2 TB enterprise hard drive (7200 RPM, 16 meg buffer, SAS interface) has a price, per google shopper, starting at $326, which appears to be the average price for a drive of that size (don't forget, I'm not including the price of the drive caddies that are needed to even use the things in a server). So no, storage is not exactly cheap for enterprise systems. It's cheaper than it used to be, but the cost to capacity ratio is no where near what it is for consumer level kit. Do the HTML proponents want to shell out the several hundred dollars for a new drive everytime mail storage space is expanded because 'most people' are using HTML based email clients and sending it out that way (and it happens more often than most people think, especially with the way 'net usage is increasing)? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disc Burning
JOHN CARMONNE wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Peter Haas wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 3:47 PM, Amanda Ward wrote: Any recommendations for an external disc burner for an iMac G5 (maybe Intel iMac) to do DVD/DL and lightscribe? Buffalo, which has a Sony Optiarc super multi-burner inside a well designed case. NewEgg no longer carries it, but it has a Lite-On which meets your requirements ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106342 I generally use internal SATA drives wherever possible, but having handy a USB burner, especially if it is bootable (as the Buffalo is) can be nice. I just bought a LITE-ON 22X DVD Writer Black IDE Model iHAP422-98 LightScribe Support form Newegg for $24.00. for my PM G5 to replace a Pioneer CD?DVD burner. IIRC, non-oem ODDs don't function with the iLife apps. At least I think it used to be that way, haven't heard it mentioned in a long time. I think there used to be a hack called 'Fair Burn' or something that would fool the iLife apps into thinking your ODD had Apple firmware but I can't seem to find it on the web. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
Dan wrote: HTML email is often done by hardcoding the font sizes. That means your email will ALWAYS be unreadable to someone. HTML email ONLY looks good if the receiver has the SAME type of mail client you do. That means your email will ALWAYS be unreadable to someone. I'm curious, how does RTF fits into the discussion? Is Mail.app's RTF format really HTML? Tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
ESata to Sata help...
Hello everybody, i bought an external enclosure for my 320GB seagate drive about 2 months ago, and then received anther one from tyler. I have the 320GB Seagate in the enclosure right now, and while I was in the process of plugging in the new 320GB Sata drive I got, i couldn't help to notice that I had an eSata plug on my enclosure. I have a few questions about that: 1: Is there a connector cable that can plug into an eSata enclosure and plug into an Internal Sata drive? 2: If I have a SATA plugged into the Esata port and inside the enclosure, will Leopard see both drives or mount them as the same drive but 2 partitions? 3; Is what I'm doing possible? 4: Where can I get myself a 2.5 Bracket for the HDD and an eSata to Sata cable? Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated. If this works out, I will have 720GB of HDD space on my PM G4 sawtooth. -- Sent from my Power Mac G4 Sawtooth -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Card Reader
Mac: Quicksilver G4 OS: OS X 10.4.11 I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x (Mine: Model: HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B) I plugged it in on various USB ports and it never shows up (I put 2 different cards in it to test it and see neither one) It only mentions in the paperwork downloading drivers for Win98 It also says: No additional driver installation required for Windows MS, 2000, XP, Vista and Mac OSX v10.1.2 plus -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
Yes it is Low End Mac as I have more than once pointed out in the past/ But even low enders move on. My 9600 can handle HTML quite. well. As for you on dial up I hope your city opts for whole access wifi soon. Any techies here complaining about being billed per kb or on dialup or slow connections etc need to expand their customer base. They just are not making enough to live on. Many folks here perhaps use a favorite mail client. And although we amy all want to abide by the rules do we always remember to switch to plain text when reading their LEM mail? It is too bad someone's eyes had to see large blue text. The nightmares will end if you try to let it go. But I would bet that at least on lists serving newer Macs, oh sat only 12 years old or so, about 98 % of the folks have little trouble with rich text. It is 2010, if someone sent a badly formatted email how about putting it down to that instead of pretending that HTML is the root of all evil. If I was on an Intel based list I would be extremely puzzeled by such quaint complaints. And No one has made this much fuss about it since about 8 years ago on the PCI list. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
What you also need to remember is that if the memory card has been formatted in windows only. Some readers will not so it up in a mac enviroment. I have had this problem a few times with different types of cards. Billy. On 18 Jul 2010, at 13:11, Stephen Conrad wrote: Mac: Quicksilver G4 OS: OS X 10.4.11 I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x (Mine: Model: HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B) I plugged it in on various USB ports and it never shows up (I put 2 different cards in it to test it and see neither one) It only mentions in the paperwork downloading drivers for Win98 It also says: No additional driver installation required for Windows MS, 2000, XP, Vista and Mac OSX v10.1.2 plus -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
At 12:13 AM -0600 7/18/2010, Tina K. wrote: Dan wrote: HTML email is often done by hardcoding the font sizes. That means your email will ALWAYS be unreadable to someone. HTML email ONLY looks good if the receiver has the SAME type of mail client you do. That means your email will ALWAYS be unreadable to someone. I'm curious, how does RTF fits into the discussion? Is Mail.app's RTF format really HTML? RTF (Rich Text Format) is HTML, but without some of the formal headers and such. Since it hasn't got all the headers, it's a bit more efficient -- but not by much. For an example, take a look at Kevin Barth's posts in this thread, in their raw format. Scroll past the various email headers, until you get to the x-html tag (I've added spaces here to prevent your email client from hiding it from you in this paragraph). Notice that the text of his email is not overly readable, as it completely depends upon the HTML interpretation to re-format it. Note also that because the body of his email is in HTML, the footer added by Google has also been reformatted/expanded to include HTML. To use one of his early posts in this thread as an example... The HTML version is 1556 bytes. The plain text version of that is only 1085 bytes. (Body+footer of the email, not including the standard headers). That's an expansion of about 145 % (doing the math off my fingers) on a SMALL email message alone. Figure a thousand emails per month in this mailing list, plus the other LEM lists times the number of people on those lists... That's megabytes of extra bandwidth that provides NO additional signal, just noise! Here are two small screenshots, showing Kevin's email in both forms: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/610326/Barth%20plain%20text.jpg http://dl.dropbox.com/u/610326/Barth%20rich%20text.jpg - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
At 12:38 PM + 7/18/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: As for you on dial up I hope your city opts for whole access wifi soon. Not likely, as there are big movements at the state levels to ban gov't owned/operated ISPs. The few towns that have rolled their own service really put the fear of god in the telco/cable companies! Any techies here complaining about being billed per kb or on dialup or slow connections etc need to expand their customer base. They just are not making enough to live on. Yes, always a good idea to belittle your reader's physical or financial situation. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 7:39 AM, william Bowles williambowle...@gmail.comwrote: What you also need to remember is that if the memory card has been formatted in windows only. Some readers will not so it up in a mac enviroment. I have had this problem a few times with different types of cards. Billy. One is a Compactflash Card FC-32M The other is a memory card for my Olympus Stylus 300 (Olympus xD-Picture Card Olympus said it should be seen by my Mac -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: ESata to Sata help...
At 1:51 AM -0400 7/18/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: PM G4 sawtooth. external enclosure for my 320GB seagate drive about 2 months ago, and then received anther one from tyler. I have the 320GB Seagate in the enclosure right now, and while I was in the process of plugging in the new 320GB Sata drive I got, i couldn't help to notice that I had an eSata plug on my enclosure. I have a few questions about that: 1: Is there a connector cable that can plug into an eSata enclosure and plug into an Internal Sata drive? 2: If I have a SATA plugged into the Esata port and inside the enclosure, will Leopard see both drives or mount them as the same drive but 2 partitions? 3; Is what I'm doing possible? 4: Where can I get myself a 2.5 Bracket for the HDD and an eSata to Sata cable? The purpose of the eSATA connector on the outside of the external hard drive box NOT to connect another hard drive. It is to connect to the eSATA connector on your computer. This would be instead of using USB or Firewire. The eSATA connector on your computer would be provided via a SATA PCI card. SATA is primarily a point-to-point protocol. It is not daisy chained or hubbed like USB or Firewire. If you have a SATA interface in your PowerMac, then you would need a separate eSATA port and socket for each of your external HD boxes. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
OT:To Any Hams On The List
Please contact me off-list if you are a Ham. Thanks, Dennis Myhand -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
This is low end. Not belittling the low end nor those who struggle to eke out a living. But complaining about such a trivial thing as this and using bandwidth as a reason seems antiquated in 2010. As far as a physical situation I am no mind reader and have no idea of what you are talking about. If it is a sore point I apologize but I do not see my comments as touching on any physical situation. As to whether a techie should worry about HTML mail in terms of IP cost and the strain on computer systems if you are teching for other low enders be realistic, is the grief you are getting worth the grief you are getting? IOW is it paying off? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Stephen Conrad wrote: Mac: Quicksilver G4 OS: OS X 10.4.11 I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x (Mine: Model: HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B) I plugged it in on various USB ports and it never shows up (I put 2 different cards in it to test it and see neither one) It only mentions in the paperwork downloading drivers for Win98 It also says: No additional driver installation required for Windows MS, 2000, XP, Vista and Mac OSX v10.1.2 plus Steve, Does the card reader show up in System Profiler under USB devices? How about in Disk Utility? That should let you know if it's really an OS problem or if perhaps you just bought a lemon. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
As for you on dial up I hope your city opts for whole access wifi soon. Note one important word in this sentence: city. Now, I've got high-speed Internet and can download all the rich-text HTML stupidly-formatted email I want to (although I still prefer plain text), but many of my friends live in areas where they don't have high-speed Internet. It's not because they're poor or because they're opting to have dial-up for the bargain; it's because that's your only option in some areas. The cable company hasn't extended the line out to a bunch of places in rural Appalachia, and it's really difficult to set up wireless Internet in the mountains. It's slowly being done by a local company that just got a huge grant, but even that is still fairly slow and hasn't added a good number of people out here. Satellite Internet is another option, but there you're paying per kilobyte, so Dan's argument holds true again. Cell phone-based Internet doesn't work out here either; there are entire towns that are dead zones. And I live in what some would consider the more civilized part of the region. So for all the people out here who have slow Internet because that's the only Internet there is, be considerate and send some plain text emails. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Nanny note Re: plain text please
Folks, per the official Low End Mac Email List FAQs: http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml Don't send styled text or HTML files; only send plain text. Styled text may or may not come through as an attachment, but it is very difficult to read with a plain text email client. Google Groups will accept styled text and attachments, and this can result in garbled digests. On a similar vein: Never send attachments to the list. An attachment may contain a virus, may be in a format others cannot use, may not make it through some mail gateways, makes the message bigger, and could bog down both the list server and the mail server. • Many of today's email programs send styled text attachments by default. Please turn HTML and other styled text off when posting to our lists (see #3). (Note that PGP.sig files and v-cards are attachments.) • Instead of sending an attachment to the list, offer to email it directly to those who request it. • Low End Mac lists used to be explicitly set to reject any and all attachments. We can't do that with Google Groups. So please abide by these rules. Not following them may result in your being placed on moderated status or your messages not getting through. Len Gerstel List Nanny -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
At 1:47 PM + 7/18/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: As to whether a techie should worry about HTML mail in terms of IP cost and the strain on computer systems if you are teching for other low enders be realistic, is the grief you are getting worth the grief you are getting? IOW is it paying off? Paying off... well, let's see... A few seconds of the poster's time vs: Several minutes of my time and technical expertise. The time of the 1700+ recipients to download the 145% larger messages. The time of the 1700+ recipients to wade thru the noise to find the signal. The of the recipients that are on metered services. Sorry, this is just a no-brainer to me. Wading thru badly formatted messages takes ALL the fun out of helping and learning on lists like this. And making this type of change to so large an audience, that would have *financial impact* on some of them is unconscionable -- especially when the point of doing so is to facilitate poster laziness. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
The list rules are very clear. If you don't like it or don't want to follow this rules then get off the list. Peter M. Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Sender: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:34:11 To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Reply-To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: plain text please Metered service? Who has metered service? The UK? If that is the only thing available that is what you go with but then why bother at all. A phone call would be preferable. And hopefully the post office is still around. You still think anyone who has a machine new enough to be on the G list notices a longer load time for an HTML email? No one reads the posts unless they are interested in the subject presented in the subject line. Forcing everyone to adhere to a standard which is so out of date it is not at all funny and making a huge fuss about it while hiding behind helpfulness is a tyranny of the passive aggressive sort. Do you SERIOUSLY think the G Listers actually really care if a post shows up in rich text? Maybe you have not noticed but LEM seems to be a sinking ship. Many lists here I subscribe to have not had a post for weeks or months. Anyone who thinks HTML mail is too much for their G Mac needs to read the manual. I don't care what connection they have. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On Jul 18, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Metered service? Who has metered service? The UK? If that is the only thing available that is what you go with but then why bother at all. A phone call would be preferable. And hopefully the post office is still around. Plenty of people hoping for faster speeds than dial up that have opted for satellite Internet have metered service. And for people in those rural areas, getting to the post office could take 30 minutes to an hour. And that's not because of city traffic. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Metered service? Who has metered service? The UK? If that is the only thing available that is what you go with but then why bother at all. A phone call would be preferable. And hopefully the post office is still around. Most of us in the UK are on ADSL or Cable (available in metropolitan areas). Only a relatively few rural areas still have no option but dial-up, although that should change over the next 2 - 5 years. Speaking as a graphic designer, I keep graphics for commercial use - where they have a valid purpose - and use plain text for communication. Too much eye-candy, and recipients notice the messenger and not the message. Just my pennyworth, Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
Dan wrote: Remember that the purpose of these LEM mailing lists is TECHNICAL SUPPORT, not pretty animated icon cutsie email chatty please pass the nail polish. I don't speak for the other techies on these lists... but wading thru HTML-based emails, just like TOP POSTED and UNTRIMMED messages, is a WASTE of my time. My time is very limited. I can view a couple of pretty emails, and get lost in all the formatting added by each replier, and botched along the way... Or I can quickly go thru whole threads of well-formatted plain text - and provide technical answers. Remember the part about the purpose of these lists Frankly, if you're dying to send pretty messages then go find a service that's Forum based. Myself, I'll continue to hit cmd-D as soon as I open a gaudy POS HTML email on these groups. I agree with Dan. I do not provide nearly as much help as he does, but if I must wade through html garbage, I will not even bother to read the list any more. What does HTML really gain anyone in email? As far as I can tell it is purposeless. Plain text is perfectly suited to email. There is absolutely zero reason html should even be supported in emails except the stupidity of whichever email client programmer first added it in a fit of moronic feature creep. And you are much more secure if you refuse to interpret html in email messages. My clients will never be allowed to interpret html. Some have called plain text outmoded. I say rather it was field tested. Folks on the internet spent a couple of decades establishing that well edited quoted text, bottom posting and plain text work most efficiently to facilitate clear communications. Some times old stuff is also stuff that was actually wisely established and it is old because it works really really well. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
Personally, I don't give a damn. What is annoying is over 100 messages debating it eating my time and bandwidth. Mikeal Palulis Kallisti Medias On Jul 18, 2010, at 11:36 AM, t...@io.com t...@io.com wrote: Dan wrote: Remember that the purpose of these LEM mailing lists is TECHNICAL SUPPORT, not pretty animated icon cutsie email chatty please pass the nail polish. I don't speak for the other techies on these lists... but wading thru HTML-based emails, just like TOP POSTED and UNTRIMMED messages, is a WASTE of my time. My time is very limited. I can view a couple of pretty emails, and get lost in all the formatting added by each replier, and botched along the way... Or I can quickly go thru whole threads of well-formatted plain text - and provide technical answers. Remember the part about the purpose of these lists Frankly, if you're dying to send pretty messages then go find a service that's Forum based. Myself, I'll continue to hit cmd-D as soon as I open a gaudy POS HTML email on these groups. I agree with Dan. I do not provide nearly as much help as he does, but if I must wade through html garbage, I will not even bother to read the list any more. What does HTML really gain anyone in email? As far as I can tell it is purposeless. Plain text is perfectly suited to email. There is absolutely zero reason html should even be supported in emails except the stupidity of whichever email client programmer first added it in a fit of moronic feature creep. And you are much more secure if you refuse to interpret html in email messages. My clients will never be allowed to interpret html. Some have called plain text outmoded. I say rather it was field tested. Folks on the internet spent a couple of decades establishing that well edited quoted text, bottom posting and plain text work most efficiently to facilitate clear communications. Some times old stuff is also stuff that was actually wisely established and it is old because it works really really well. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Pismo surfing freezes
I have a 500 mhz Pismo running 10.4.11, Safari and an original Airport card. Every time I try to get on the internet, it opens the first couple of pages, then when you try to go to the 3rd or 4th page it freezes, with the progress bar just about at http://. At that point, if I try to give up and quit Safari it gives me the infinitely spinning ball, with the result that I must force shut down the computer and start all over again. I have tried replacing the Airport card (since I have a few of them laying around), and reinstalling Safari. No luck. Anybody have any ideas why this might be happening? Bruce - in Orlando -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Pismo surfing freezes
On Jul 18, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Bruce - in Orlando wrote: I have a 500 mhz Pismo running 10.4.11, Safari and an original Airport card. Every time I try to get on the internet, it opens the first couple of pages, then when you try to go to the 3rd or 4th page it freezes, with the progress bar just about at http://. At that point, if I try to give up and quit Safari it gives me the infinitely spinning ball, with the result that I must force shut down the computer and start all over again. I have tried replacing the Airport card (since I have a few of them laying around), and reinstalling Safari. No luck. Anybody have any ideas why this might be happening? Bruce - in Orlando Have you tried a different browser? I use Camino on my Wally 10.4.11 and no problems. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
At 11:52 AM -0400 7/18/2010, Nikki Wraith wrote: What is annoying is over 100 messages debating it eating my time and bandwidth. 43 messages, not 100. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disc Burning
On Jul 17, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Tina K. wrote: IIRC, non-oem ODDs don't function with the iLife apps. At least I think it used to be that way, haven't heard it mentioned in a long time. I think there used to be a hack called 'Fair Burn' or something that would fool the iLife apps into thinking your ODD had Apple firmware but I can't seem to find it on the web. For a very long time that was the case, but since 10.5 any drive will do. The software you're remembering is PatchBurn http://www.patchburn.de/ -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disc Burning
On Jul 18, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Tina K. wrote: IIRC, non-oem ODDs don't function with the iLife apps. At least I think it used to be that way, haven't heard it mentioned in a long time. I think there used to be a hack called 'Fair Burn' or something that would fool the iLife apps into thinking your ODD had Apple firmware but I can't seem to find it on the web. For a very long time that was the case, but since 10.5 any drive will do. The software you're remembering is PatchBurn http://www.patchburn.de/ NEC, LG, and Lite-ON drives don't require PatchBurn with 10.3 or later. Some brands do such as Sony and Pioneer (non Apple ROMed versions), but the previously stated 3 don't require it. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please ... 44, do we have 50?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Dan wrote: At 11:52 AM -0400 7/18/2010, Nikki Wraith wrote: What is annoying is over 100 messages debating it eating my time and bandwidth. 43 messages, not 100. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list List Nanny would you stop all this? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Pismo surfing freezes
At 9:03 AM -0700 7/18/2010, Bruce - in Orlando wrote: 500 mhz Pismo running 10.4.11 Safari What version of Safari? What plug-ins, add-ons, inputmanagers have you insalled? Every time I try to get on the internet, it opens the first couple of pages, then when you try to go to the 3rd or 4th page it freezes, with the progress bar just about at http://. Have you tried clearing Safari's caches? Have you tried removing all those plug-ins and such? Is there a specific URL involved? At that point, if I try to give up and quit Safari it gives me the infinitely spinning ball, with the result that I must force shut down the computer and start all over again. option-click on Safari's icon in the Dock - then you'll be able to force quit it. Since you've done these forceable shutdowns,,, run a Verify Disk pass with Disk Utility on your boot and other disk volumes to make sure you didn't corrupt anything. I have tried replacing the Airport card (since I have a few of them laying around), and reinstalling Safari. No luck. Why would you do that? Are you haven't other network related problems? Given the information you've provided -- a single app freezing -- replacing the airport card is kindof like swapping out your car engine because the neighbor's kid puked in the back seat. And reinstalling Safari? sigh. That's like replacing the car's tires because of a problem with the windshield wiper. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On 7/17/10 3:10 PM, Kevin Barth godai@gmail.com wrote: With due respect, seems to me that a steadfast insistence on plain text is dated and unrealistic. This is not up for debate. It has to due with the bandwidth that google allows our group etc. Plain text or leave the list. Sorry. Kyle Hansen LEM List Manager --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On 7/17/10 9:50 PM, Kevin Barth godai@gmail.com wrote: The fact that things have always been done this way has never been a particularly compelling argument against change. To quite the Brady Bunch, When it's time to change, then it's time to change. Listen, the rule is there for a reason. To make the list readable for everyone. If one insists on using HTML it may not go through and you may get moderated. I assure you that there are some people on this list on dial up. I can also assure you that there are people using older than G3 machines on this list. The reason being is that some of the lesser populated lists have had members migrate here for answers. It is really out of consideration for others. If anyone has a problem with this policy then take it up with Dan Knight the list owner. Don¹t start a war on the list itself. THIS THREAD IS DEAD. FURTHER POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT MAY RESULT IN A TEMPORARY BAN FROM THE LIST. Let¹s get back to talking Mac now and not text formats. Kyle Hansen LEM List Manager --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please ... 44, do we have 50?
On 7/18/10 9:33 AM, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: List Nanny would you stop all this? I just did. I will do it again. THIS THREAD IS DEAD. DO NOT POST ON THIS TOPIC ANYMORE. FURTHER POSTS ON THIS TOPIC MAY RESULT IN A TEMPORARY BAN FROM THE LIST. This was the last thing I wanted to wake up to and read. Now back to the Tour de France on Tivo with a Mimosa in hand and my laptop open reading this list. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
iCab 4.8
iCab was just recently updated again, so I thought I'd take it for a spin. I used to use iCab as much as WaMCom Mozilla, on OS 9. Liked it on OS X too, but then I ended up using Safari more and more. So far so good - seems nice. http://icab.de/ - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/17/10 10:29 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. Dan is correct. The machine specific discs have a piece of software that launches pre-install that verifies it is installing on the machine it was made for. It IS pirating to try to change this. And if you succeed you may be severely disappointed. It may have been specific to a model that had a different driver set and will screw your install up completely. Most of them do not have a universal OS behind that software. One version of the eMac installers did and a couple others. But not many. So you might install and get no video because you have an Nvidia graphics card and that OS only has the Radeon driver set. The RETAIL disks are universal. They have a piece of software that looks to see what hardware it is installing on and then installs the appropriate drivers. Technically, using a non machine specific disk on a different machine is pirating the Mac OS and against the EULA and against this list's rules. The list you want to use for that would be that big one out there called Google. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/17/10 10:29 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. Dan is correct. The machine specific discs have a piece of software that launches pre-install that verifies it is installing on the machine it was made for. It IS pirating to try to change this. And if you succeed you may be severely disappointed. It may have been specific to a model that had a different driver set and will screw your install up completely. Most of them do not have a universal OS behind that software. One version of the eMac installers did and a couple others. But not many. So you might install and get no video because you have an Nvidia graphics card and that OS only has the Radeon driver set. The RETAIL disks are universal. They have a piece of software that looks to see what hardware it is installing on and then installs the appropriate drivers. AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel on a MacBook or Mac Mini at ant price? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
ventrilo and g5 tower
does anyone use venrilo with world of warcraft on a G5 tower? I'm having microphone problems to headset. I can seem to get sound out. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html is the controlling document for the basics of internet email. (Some would claim that the real RTF is 822 which is formally approved and not still standards track. It's worth a read. Its also worth while to poke around on that site for general education. RFC's (Requests for Comments) are the way the internet is supposed to work. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2045.html Is the starting point for MIME extensions to email. Discussion of Content-Transfer-encoding is discussed there. It's a starting point for the proper inclusion of type HTML in a multipart mail message. It's widely ignored assuming that the client can look for an html tag in the body of a message. At 00:50 -0400 7/18/10, Kevin Barth wrote: OK. so now it seems you're arguing that everybody should limit themselves to plaintext because you can't read a proportional font? Or at least that you find a proportional font harder to read than a non-proportional one? At 22:34 -0500 7/17/10, James Therrault wrote: All plain text does is default to a non-proportiona font family such as courier. IOW, an I takes up the same space as a W etc. Plain text has absolutely noting to do with font or its character width and kerning. The reader, or his mail client, gets to choose it. At 01:18 -0400 7/18/10, Dan wrote: First of all, realize that rich text is a form of HTML. At 09:08 -0400 7/18/10, Dan wrote: RTF (Rich Text Format) is HTML, but without some of the formal headers and such. Since it hasn't got all the headers, it's a bit more efficient -- but not by much. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1563.html describes enriched text. It was once called rich text but that got changed because of confusion with RTF (rich text format) which originated with Microsoft and was first used on Apple products as part of the BASIC language. As far as I know nobody has ever used RTF in the body of an email. It certainly is NOT HTML in any sense of the acronym. Apple, in OS neXt, uses a form of RTF for the likes of TextEdit.app. It's not compatible with the most current release, by Microsoft, of its RTF standard. (And by the way, you need to be a licensed developer to have access to that. I can't read my pirated copy in Word 5.1 or in TextEdit.). The last email that I received in enriched text probably came over arpanet.. From RFC 1563: This document defines one particular type of MIME data, the text/enriched type, a refinement of the text/richtext type defined in RFC 1341. The syntax of text/enriched is very simple. It represents text in a single character set -- US-ASCII by default, although a different character set can be specified by the use of the charset parameter. (The semantics of text/enriched in non-ASCII character sets are discussed later in this document.) At 00:13 -0600 7/18/10, Tina K. wrote: I'm curious, how does RTF fits into the discussion? Is Mail.app's RTF format really HTML? Mail.app will NOT place either Apple's RTF or Microsoft's RTF into the body of a mail message. As an attachment it would be possible. Like dragging the icon of a raw TextEdit file into the attachment box of a mail client. Mail.app defaults to using HTML for all messages but it can be told not to do that. If it calls HTML RTF it ought to be reported as a bug. There was once a UNIX tool called demime that would convert HTML to plain text. Mailing lists made extensive use of it for things like creating digests that work. I donno what it's current status is but I just might try it on stuff from this list. I'll have to move off this 8500 first. -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disc Burning
Eric Herbert wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Tina K. wrote: IIRC, non-oem ODDs don't function with the iLife apps. At least I think it used to be that way, haven't heard it mentioned in a long time. I think there used to be a hack called 'Fair Burn' or something that would fool the iLife apps into thinking your ODD had Apple firmware but I can't seem to find it on the web. For a very long time that was the case, but since 10.5 any drive will do. The software you're remembering is PatchBurnhttp://www.patchburn.de/ NEC, LG, and Lite-ON drives don't require PatchBurn with 10.3 or later. Some brands do such as Sony and Pioneer (non Apple ROMed versions), but the previously stated 3 don't require it. Thank you both, that is good information to know. Tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On 7/18/10 12:51 PM, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html is the controlling document for the basics of internet email. (Some would claim that the real RTF is 822 which is formally approved and not still standards track. It's worth a read. Its also worth while to poke around on that site for general education. RFC's (Requests for Comments) are the way the internet is supposed to work. I killed this thread hours ago. DO NOT post on the subject again please. Kyle Hansen LEM List Manager --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/18/10 2:09 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: Tiger was compiled to run on PPC only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. Sorry. Mistyped that last one. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. I believe you meant PPC machine rather than non PPC machine Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. I think John was talking about downgrading an Intel Mac that originally came with Leopard back to Tiger? The problem here is that there is no retail universal Tiger Intel disc available, they were all machine specific discs. Such a downgrade installation would require changing the machine specific OSInstall.dist file in order to install Tiger onto a newer Mac. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. I believe you meant PPC machine rather than non PPC machine Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. I think John was talking about downgrading an Intel Mac that originally came with Leopard back to Tiger? The problem here is that there is no retail universal Tiger Intel disc available, they were all machine specific discs. Such a downgrade installation would require changing the machine specific OSInstall.dist file in order to install Tiger onto a newer Mac. Thanks for that clarification, I have no intention of pirating any thing any more than the Apple reseller and Repair Depot do. The DownGrade is to put the machine back to new state. A CCC would've been in order here but some owners don't know about that stuff. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Tiger was compiled to run on PPC only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. However, The first Intel iMacs came pre-installed with Tiger (OS 10.4.4): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_cd_1.83_17.html The early MacBooks (Intel only) also came pre-installled with Tiger (OS 10.4.6): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/stats/macbook_1.83.html -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
Kyle Hansen wrote: Sorry. Mistyped that last one. To follow up on my message, I was thinking of Leopard. Too many felines… Tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Latest iTunes update no burn?
Hi all I have a PM G4 MDD and a PM G5 Dual 2.7. Ever since the last iTunes update neither machine will burn a CD in iTunes booted in Tiger, both work OK in Leopard. Anyone else with this problem? I've reinstalled many ways and still no cigar, funny though my TiBook G4 has no problem in Tiger with the new update?? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 5:07 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Hi all I have a PM G4 MDD and a PM G5 Dual 2.7. Ever since the last iTunes update neither machine will burn a CD in iTunes booted in Tiger, both work OK in Leopard. Anyone else with this problem? I've reinstalled many ways and still no cigar, funny though my TiBook G4 has no problem in Tiger with the new update?? Do you have non-Apple drives in those machines? Do you need to apply PatchBurn? Personally I'd lean towards a bug in the newest iTunes. I made the mistake of installing it on my 13 MBP last night thinking it would be a quick update. WRONG! An hour and a half later, it finally finished Updating Library and proceeded to crash. I run 9.1 on the PeeCee with Windows 7 and ever since the update, it takes about 500 years to import a single track with lots and lots of hard drive thrashing. I have no idea what Apple was thinking when they unleashed these new versions of iTunes on the unsuspecting public, but I'm hoping they fix it soon! I should also point out that once the library has been updated by iTunes 9, they've got you hooked. Unless you backed up your library (just the library files) prior to the update, you're now an iTunes 9 customer. iTunes does back up your library file for you prior to the installation, but that does you no good if you decided to try iTunes 9 then wanted to revert back to 8.x -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Eric Herbert wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 5:07 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Hi all I have a PM G4 MDD and a PM G5 Dual 2.7. Ever since the last iTunes update neither machine will burn a CD in iTunes booted in Tiger, both work OK in Leopard. Anyone else with this problem? I've reinstalled many ways and still no cigar, funny though my TiBook G4 has no problem in Tiger with the new update?? Do you have non-Apple drives in those machines? Do you need to apply PatchBurn? Personally I'd lean towards a bug in the newest iTunes. I made the mistake of installing it on my 13 MBP last I have Pioneer drives, But they work properly in Leopard, The Tiger partitions are the problem. I read on Google of others complaining about iTunes latest update, But no answers from the mother ship. JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 800 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Isaac Smith smith...@sprynet.com wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Stephen Conrad wrote: Mac: Quicksilver G4 OS: OS X 10.4.11 I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x (Mine: Model: HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B) I plugged it in on various USB ports and it never shows up (I put 2 different cards in it to test it and see neither one) It only mentions in the paperwork downloading drivers for Win98 It also says: No additional driver installation required for Windows MS, 2000, XP, Vista and Mac OSX v10.1.2 plus Steve, Does the card reader show up in System Profiler under USB devices? How about in Disk Utility? That should let you know if it's really an OS problem or if perhaps you just bought a lemon. Isaac Here is what System Profiler says *Mass Storage Device:* Version: 1.00 Bus Power (mA): 100 Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec Manufacturer: Generic Product ID: 0x6366 Serial Number: 058F63666471 Vendor ID: 0x058f It is plugged into my KB (I have seen NO Low Power Warnings) When I try my other camera in the same port I see the Low Power Warning -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
Here is what System Profiler says Mass Storage Device: Version:1.00 Bus Power (mA): 100 Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec Manufacturer: Generic Product ID: 0x6366 Serial Number: 058F63666471 Vendor ID: 0x058f So it looks like System Profiler does see it. That's a good sign for the functionality of the device itself. Something is definitely there. It is plugged into my KB (I have seen NO Low Power Warnings) When I try my other camera in the same port I see the Low Power Warning Have you tried plugging it any USB ports on the back of the tower? I've had drives not give a low power warning but not work in the keyboard USB port before. You might also try plugging it into another computer and seeing if it works there. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 5:40 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote: I have Pioneer drives, But they work properly in Leopard, The Tiger partitions are the problem. I read on Google of others complaining about iTunes latest update, But no answers from the mother ship. I think this has been answered already. For non-Apple OEM drives you need Patchburn for Tiger. It's nothing to do with the iTunes update, you need Patchburn to add support for all Apple applications including Disk Utility, iMovie, etc. In Leopard Apple ditched the requirement of OEM-Apple drives, which is why there is no Leopard version of Patchburn. http://www.patchburn.de/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: I think this has been answered already. For non-Apple OEM drives you need Patchburn for Tiger. It's nothing to do with the iTunes update, you need Patchburn to add support for all Apple applications including Disk Utility, iMovie, etc. In Leopard Apple ditched the requirement of OEM-Apple drives, which is why there is no Leopard version of Patchburn. http://www.patchburn.de/ That's not the problem here. His drives have been working fine WITHOUT Patchburn (many drives work flawlessly on Tiger without the use of PatchBurn) until the last iTunes update. It's something to do with the iTunes update itself, perhaps it's being a lot more stingy with what devices it will work with than it was before? Still, it's worth a shot to see if PatchBurn fixes the problem. It may, and it may not, it depends on how much they've messed up iTunes with this last update. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Jul 18, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Stephen Conrad wrote: Vendor ID: 0x058f When I Google 0x058f I immediately see Generic USB 2.0 cardreader which makes me think this device likely requires a USB 2.0 port to work? It would be worth the investment in a cheap USB 2.0 PCI card. Also, unless your keyboard is a newer USB 2.0 keyboard the ports on the keyboard will also be the slower USB 1.0 ports, so you'll need to attach the cardreader directly to the USB 2.0 PCI card ports or a USB 2.0 hub attached to this card. You can used the onboard USB 1.0 ports for your keyboard mouse or other USB 1.0 devices. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 5:15 PM, Eric Herbert wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: I think this has been answered already. For non-Apple OEM drives you need Patchburn for Tiger. It's nothing to do with the iTunes update, you need Patchburn to add support for all Apple applications including Disk Utility, iMovie, etc. In Leopard Apple ditched the requirement of OEM-Apple drives, which is why there is no Leopard version of Patchburn. http://www.patchburn.de/ That's not the problem here. His drives have been working fine WITHOUT Patchburn (many drives work flawlessly on Tiger without the use of PatchBurn) until the last iTunes update. It's something to do with the iTunes update itself, perhaps it's being a lot more stingy with what devices it will work with than it was before? Still, it's worth a shot to see if PatchBurn fixes the problem. It may, and it may not, it depends on how much they've messed up iTunes with this last update. It works fine With Tiger 3 of my Cubes and my TiBook 800 plus both PM's on Leopard, with Pioneer drives on all of them. Something seems to be up on the PPC PM's with Tiger. All this happened after the last update. every thing works in iTunes till I try to burn a CD then the program crashes. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:48 PM, John Carmonne wrote: That's not the problem here. His drives have been working fine WITHOUT Patchburn (many drives work flawlessly on Tiger without the use of PatchBurn) until the last iTunes update. It's something to do with the iTunes update itself, perhaps it's being a lot more stingy with what devices it will work with than it was before? Still, it's worth a shot to see if PatchBurn fixes the problem. It may, and it may not, it depends on how much they've messed up iTunes with this last update. It works fine With Tiger 3 of my Cubes and my TiBook 800 plus both PM's on Leopard, with Pioneer drives on all of them. Something seems to be up on the PPC PM's with Tiger. All this happened after the last update. every thing works in iTunes till I try to burn a CD then the program crashes. Have you tried a booting into Safe Mode and Reboot to rebuild the caches? Would that help? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 12:22 PM -0700 7/18/2010, John Carmonne wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel on a MacBook or Mac Mini at ant price? Correct. Apple never released a universal Tiger. The Tiger retail kits are all PPC-only. The early x86 Macs came with machine-specific x86-only discs. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Latest iTunes update no burn?
On Jul 18, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Bill Connelly wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:48 PM, John Carmonne wrote: That's not the problem here. His drives have been working fine WITHOUT Patchburn (many drives work flawlessly on Tiger without the use of PatchBurn) until the last iTunes update. It's something to do with the iTunes update itself, perhaps it's being a lot more stingy with what devices it will work with than it was before? Still, it's worth a shot to see if PatchBurn fixes the problem. It may, and it may not, it depends on how much they've messed up iTunes with this last update. It works fine With Tiger 3 of my Cubes and my TiBook 800 plus both PM's on Leopard, with Pioneer drives on all of them. Something seems to be up on the PPC PM's with Tiger. All this happened after the last update. every thing works in iTunes till I try to burn a CD then the program crashes. Have you tried a booting into Safe Mode and Reboot to rebuild the caches? Would that help? I've run everything I can think of and no change it's a weird problem to me, I tried to boot a CCC from a working machine and I get the same crash. It can't be any of the drives I don't think because it works on the Leopard partitions on both machines. And like I said all was working till the iTunes update to 9.2. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: plain text please
On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:35 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/17/10 3:10 PM, Kevin Barth godai@gmail.com wrote: With due respect, seems to me that a steadfast insistence on plain text is dated and unrealistic. This is not up for debate. It has to due with the bandwidth that google allows our group etc. Plain text or leave the list. Sorry. Kyle Hansen LEM List Manager You don't appear to be using plain text, (at least in my reader). sigh JT TODAY: iPads for $23.78? Report: Apple iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 83% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c43b9c22c011333f89st05duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:56 PM, onelucent oneluc...@mac.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Also, once you get into SD cards, some higher capacity or higher speeds ones will require later, higher-capacity readers. On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: When I Google 0x058f I immediately see Generic USB 2.0 cardreader which makes me think this device likely requires a USB 2.0 port to work? It would be worth the investment in a cheap USB 2.0 PCI card. Also, unless your keyboard is a newer USB 2.0 keyboard the ports on the keyboard will also be the slower USB 1.0 ports, so you'll need to attach the cardreader directly to the USB 2.0 PCI card ports or a USB 2.0 hub attached to this card. You can used the onboard USB 1.0 ports for your keyboard mouse or other USB 1.0 devices. I plugged it into a 4 Port USB 2.0 Hub It is plugged into a 4 Port USB Hub (Model F5U014-OE) which is plugged into the tower -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Jul 18, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Stephen Conrad wrote: I plugged it into a 4 Port USB 2.0 Hub It is plugged into a 4 Port USB Hub (Model F5U014-OE) which is plugged into the tower. The ports on your G4 are USB 1.0 ports, so anything attached to them is by default USB 1.0. You need to buy a USB 2.0 PCI card so that you get 40x faster 480 Mbps USB 2.0 port instead of the built-in 12 Mbps USB 1.0 speed. Then attach your USB 2.0 hub to the USB 2.0 ports, and use the built-in 1.0 ports for your keyboard mouse which are USB 1.0 devices only and can't take advantage of USB 2.0 speed. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On 7/18/10 6:56 PM, onelucent wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Also, once you get into SD cards, some higher capacity or higher speeds ones will require later, higher-capacity readers. In one case I encountered where this was a problem the 4Gb SD card showed up in the older card reader but it couldn't be accessed beyond the 1Gb point. But other card readers could well not show the card at all as it seems in this case. The OP might try a smaller ( 1Gb card) as a test. On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: When I Google 0x058f I immediately see Generic USB 2.0 cardreader which makes me think this device likely requires a USB 2.0 port to work? It would be worth the investment in a cheap USB 2.0 PCI card. Also, unless your keyboard is a newer USB 2.0 keyboard the ports on the keyboard will also be the slower USB 1.0 ports, so you'll need to attach the cardreader directly to the USB 2.0 PCI card ports or a USB 2.0 hub attached to this card. You can used the onboard USB 1.0 ports for your keyboard mouse or other USB 1.0 devices. Generally speaking, USB 2.0 devices work with USB 1.x hosts but at the lower speed of course. The fact that the OPs device shows up in System Profiler tends to indicate that USB 1 vs 2 is NOT the issue. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Jul 18, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Stephen Conrad wrote: I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x Why would a 24x CD-ROM be a requirement for a USB 2.0 cardreader, this makes no sense. If you look at this page, it appears that many of these cardreaders shipped with defective USB cables and if you replace the USB cable with a known good USB cable it might work: http://milo.com/tg-crd25 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net wrote: On 7/18/10 6:56 PM, onelucent wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Also, once you get into SD cards, some higher capacity or higher speeds ones will require later, higher-capacity readers. In one case I encountered where this was a problem the 4Gb SD card showed up in the older card reader but it couldn't be accessed beyond the 1Gb point. But other card readers could well not show the card at all as it seems in this case. The OP might try a smaller ( 1Gb card) as a test. The one card is a Compactflash Card (FC-32M) The other is a 2GB xD Picture Card for my Olympus Stylus 300 digital camera (I have USB drives that are 2GB) According to the folks at Olympus I should have no problem seeing this card On Jul 18, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: When I Google 0x058f I immediately see Generic USB 2.0 cardreader which makes me think this device likely requires a USB 2.0 port to work? It would be worth the investment in a cheap USB 2.0 PCI card. Also, unless your keyboard is a newer USB 2.0 keyboard the ports on the keyboard will also be the slower USB 1.0 ports, so you'll need to attach the cardreader directly to the USB 2.0 PCI card ports or a USB 2.0 hub attached to this card. You can used the onboard USB 1.0 ports for your keyboard mouse or other USB 1.0 devices. Generally speaking, USB 2.0 devices work with USB 1.x hosts but at the lower speed of course. The fact that the OPs device shows up in System Profiler tends to indicate that USB 1 vs 2 is NOT the issue. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Card Reader
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Stephen Conrad wrote: I bought a Targus Universal 32 in 1 card reader/writer It says for Macs you need OS X 10.1.2+ and a CD-ROM 24x Why would a 24x CD-ROM be a requirement for a USB 2.0 cardreader, this makes no sense. If you look at this page, it appears that many of these cardreaders shipped with defective USB cables and if you replace the USB cable with a known good USB cable it might work: http://milo.com/tg-crd25 I tried the cable my one camera uses and still no cards show up -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
