Re: Hard Drives
On 14-06-02 1:53 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: Sadly, for the majority of the models under discussion here the answer is 'See if you can find a 7200 rpm drive'. These systems are cursed with obsolete technology. IDE-based SSD's are tiny and hugely expensive, 7200 RPM drives are getting scarce, particularly for laptops, but even in 3.5 models. You can put good, fast SSD's in a G5 tower, and for a boot volume this probably make sense, since you can keep the older, slower drives for data. Does this mean that I can put one of those in a Pismo? Making sure you have a good, current backup is probably the very best strategy; this makes it much less of an issue when a drive dies. Until there's a crash, most people, including myself don't take this very seriously. If I knew what better, in fact, I will stop this e-mail right here and go back up things that I know if an HD crash, I myself, just might crash. Strong statement and said like that may make me start on that this weekend and keep at it. But basically, the best possible speed-up strategy for a G3-G5 system is to move to an Intel Mac :-/ Bruce, I know this is a poke at me, because I'm the dinosaurs in this group. So, moving into the new age: I'm accepting offers for a very cheap intel machine; laptop or mac mini. There you have a host of solutions: for instance a modern Mini with an SSD is like a different critter than the stock ones with their dog-slow 5400 RPM HDD's. Boot times go to seconds, from minutes, and Disk IO can finally keep up with the CPU and network IO, especially if they're on a gigabit network. Also these drives are vastly cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-721-108nm_mc=EMC-GD051914cm_mmc=EMC-GD051914-_-index-_-Item-_-20-721-108 These were on sale for $104 a couple weeks ago. (get on their email list you can sometimes score awesome deals). You know, I used to be on their mailing list, I guess I did not pay much attention to their mail, by clicking on their links, and so they bumped me off. I will try and get back on. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On 14-06-02 10:14 PM, Baldassare Guzzo wrote: Seems like all you can really do is make good backup's and even replace your backup drives every so often. This reminds me of a post I made in a Linux forum a few years back. I asked why Ubuntu continue to release newer version of their linux, when in release, after release, after release SAMBA remains unsolved. I pointed out that each release will produce a version of SAMBA that is far from intuitive and that sharing is now an essential, just like a web browser, on any computer today. The mods simply deleted the post. It was too true to reckon with. What does that have to do with reliable HDs? Essentially the same: the size keeps growing, the speed the same, and the cost, depending whom you're speaking with, dropping. But here we see that as those progress continue, the drives are becoming less reliable. And to make matters worse, the manufacturers, knowing the load of crap they're selling nowadays, have reduced, as Peter pointed out, systematically, the number of years they will stand behind their own load of crap. But who would want to stand behind a box load of crap for longer than they legally should? So, why can't the manufacturers, as I urged the folks at ubuntu to do; stop, fix basic fundamental problems and then ask for the money they belief that has cost them? I predict, pretty soon, we will see an increase, as was the case way back when, the growth of the niche industry with guys in white coats standing in prestine environments, they call labs, asking you to send your HDs in, and for a cool $2,000, will try and recover your details...but no real promises. And I know some may say the process will fix itself...that there will be a tonne of bad higher capacity HDs before we see more reliable drives. I won't hold my breadth. Much like sugar, see Fed Up, our appetite for more HD size is insatiable and like the food industry, the manufacturers know this. I still remember when a 20GB will cost you a fortune. Now folks won't even take them for free. I giggled when my neighbour, a fan for chasing the highway of techonoly, complained bitterly about how he can't find an ATA drive for resonable price. I gave him a 60GB for free. Anyway, I'm not condemning your statement, just commenting on the very obvious. There has to be an alternative than the waste and distress we're telling ourselves is the solution to this racket. Why for example, do manufacturers still offer five years warranty on so-called enterprise HDs, and a year or two for prosumers as Peter tells us? Yes, I'm upset...there you have it! -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Monday, June 2, 2014 2:53:18 PM UTC-5, joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Jun 2, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Nestamicky nesta...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? Sadly, for the majority of the models under discussion here the answer is ‘See if you can find a 7200 rpm drive’. These systems are cursed with obsolete technology. IDE-based SSD’s are tiny and hugely expensive, 7200 RPM drives are getting scarce, particularly for laptops, but even in 3.5” models. Adapter based solutions are very affordable and the way to go these days. The simplest is to just get an IDE to SATA converter. They're cheap and reliable and I have not read any complaints about performance. If one wants to go directly to an SSD, something like this can be useful: eshop.sintech.cn/mini-pcie-msata-ssd-to-44pin-ide-adapter-as-25ide-hdd-p-626.html Sintech Electronics PA6008B However, you'd need a 40 pin desktop to 44 pin laptop (3.5 IDE to 2.5 IDE) adapter as well. I've seen the 240 GB MSATA SSDs almost as low as the 2.5 SATA SSD (~$105) form factor. For iPods and notebooks that use 1.8 ZIF/IDE hard drives, there's a ZIF 1.8 to MSATA SSD adapter. However, if one needs to get from SCSI to SATA or IDE, the choices are not good. The SCSI to PATA/SATA adapters jumped in price a few years ago from ~$30 to $150+. Jeff Walther -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 3, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Why for example, do manufacturers still offer five years warranty on so-called enterprise HDs, and a year or two for prosumers as Peter tells us? Because they charge 2-4X for those drives. Remember the cardinal rule of engineering: Fast, Good, Cheap. Choose any two. Also, the Ubuntu folks don't write or maintain Samba. The people to complain to would be Samba.org You REALLY don't want companies to go off and write their own SMB stacks. We had the misfortune of buying a cheap SAN (Nexenta - based) just as Apple released 10.7 (with, yes, their completely re-written SMB stack. At least it adheres to standards, unlike Nexenta's rewritten version of Samba..to the point that for three months Macs were unable to connect to our servers if they were running 10.7. Even now, Macs cannot connect to this system via DFS.) Thankfully we just replaced the old one with a new one (that cost a LOT more money...remember 'Good, Fast, Cheap') that actually works as expected. And I have become vastly more aware and versed in Apple's AD command-line tools than I ever wanted to be... -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are. B. Banzai, PhD -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Alex Sciortino zeosr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! Today I made an interesting observation and was wondering if anybody else has had the same experience. Today the 6mo old HDD in my MBP failed, but I have the original 320gb in a PM G5 and even an original 13gb HDD in a iMac G3 still running with out issues. I have had quite a few HDDs that were newish fail in the past few years. Thanks! It's a consequence of the bottom falling out of HDD prices, and the staggeringly high rate of HDD size increase, I expect. Engineering corners are being cut to keep prices low, and hardware is pushed to the limit to do things like put 1TB on one drive platter. I'd wager that 320GB one has two platters, and that 13 GB one may even have 4. This means larger, more mechanically rugged read heads, and beefier mechanicals to move all that mass around. The controllers will have more discrete, physically larger components. More mass == more thermal mass to deal with heat and power. In the days when you could charge $400 for a HDD, QC could be much more thorough than when you can charge $100. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
It's a consequence of the bottom falling out of HDD prices, and the staggeringly high rate of HDD size increase, I expect. AND, dropping the size (thickness) from 12.5mm (although a few of those are still around) to 9.5mm, or less. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:02 AM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: It's a consequence of the bottom falling out of HDD prices, and the staggeringly high rate of HDD size increase, I expect. AND, dropping the size (thickness) from 12.5mm (although a few of those are still around) to 9.5mm, or less. This is directly related to reducing the number of platters and the thickness of platters as well. In the end it's futile race, because solid state drives are also plummeting in price and leaping up in size, and since they're only limited by solid state fabrication techniques, they'll be a lot more reliable...when was the last time you had RAM go bad? -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On 14-06-02 11:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: This is directly related to reducing the number of platters and the thickness of platters as well. In the end it's futile race, because solid state drives are also plummeting in price and leaping up in size, and since they're only limited by solid state fabrication techniques, they'll be a lot more reliable...when was the last time you had RAM go bad? This is all very good discussion. Wonderful information here. Thanks a lot guys! Perhaps we could move it along more to the point of practical information, if folks could pitch in with specs to look for when buying modern hard drives. Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 2, 2014 12:23 PM, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: On 14-06-02 11:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: This is all very good discussion. Wonderful information here. Thanks a lot guys! Perhaps we could move it along more to the point of practical information, if folks could pitch in with specs to look for when buying modern hard drives. Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? That is a good point. What should we look for to ensure we get a reliable HDD -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 2, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? Sadly, for the majority of the models under discussion here the answer is 'See if you can find a 7200 rpm drive'. These systems are cursed with obsolete technology. IDE-based SSD's are tiny and hugely expensive, 7200 RPM drives are getting scarce, particularly for laptops, but even in 3.5 models. You can put good, fast SSD's in a G5 tower, and for a boot volume this probably make sense, since you can keep the older, slower drives for data. Making sure you have a good, current backup is probably the very best strategy; this makes it much less of an issue when a drive dies. But basically, the best possible speed-up strategy for a G3-G5 system is to move to an Intel Mac :-/ There you have a host of solutions: for instance a modern Mini with an SSD is like a different critter than the stock ones with their dog-slow 5400 RPM HDD's. Boot times go to seconds, from minutes, and Disk IO can finally keep up with the CPU and network IO, especially if they're on a gigabit network. Also these drives are vastly cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-721-108nm_mc=EMC-GD051914cm_mmc=EMC-GD051914-_-index-_-Item-_-20-721-108 These were on sale for $104 a couple weeks ago. (get on their email list you can sometimes score awesome deals). -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
When I purchase a new drive I look for those designated enterprise grade. They're the ones with 5 year warranties. On Jun 2, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very good discussion. Wonderful information here. Thanks a lot guys! Perhaps we could move it along more to the point of practical information, if folks could pitch in with specs to look for when buying modern hard drives. Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
That isn't a bad idea... -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
When I purchase a new drive I look for those designated enterprise grade. They're the ones with 5 year warranties. Used to be everything had a 5 year warranty. Then the consumer/prosumer drives drives were reduced to 3 years. Now the consumer/prosumer drives are reduced to 2 years. The enterprise drives remain at 5 years, which is good. Seagate has relegated Barracuda to consumer/prosumer and has introduced new enterprise drives. Seagate's 2.5 offerings (Momentus, for example) are still the best in my book, which is somewhat strange as Seagate didn't come out with a 2.5 offering until years after IBM (now Hitachi) and Toshiba, and, later, WD. Historically, IBM's SCSI 2.5 drives (500 and 1000 megabyte capacity) were originally intended for a UC-Berkeley-inspired RAID product, with the drives physically mounted on a blade-type controller card. Product never got off the ground, but IBM had already purchased Mylex (remember them ?) which was supposed to design the cards, with IBM supposed to make the packaging and firmware. IBM had already confirmed the concept of commodity drives in a Count-Key-Data array product, the 9345, using its own 5.25 SCSI drives, and the 2.5 version was logically a die shrink concept applied to the 9345. IBM is still largely Count-Key-Data, a concept which never seems to die. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
I have a few Seagate 7200 3.5 ATA drives still running from 2001. They are 13 years old and have been transferred to different G4's but the drives are perfect. They all came with the 5 year warranty. Various Macbook and iBook drives I have had failures. So far my Macbook Pro late 2011 with a Toshiba drive seems to be very good. So what to look for in a drive these days? There does not seem to be any concrete data on what to buy for extended reliability. SSD seems to be more reliable but prices are still a little high. Samsung and Intel lead with the lowest failure rates of SSD's. HDD Brands have been sold or merged with other companies. Search around and you will get a hundred views on reliability and many ideas on warranty issues. Seems like all you can really do is make good backup's and even replace your backup drives every so often. On Jun 2, 2014, at 9:03 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: When I purchase a new drive I look for those designated enterprise grade. They're the ones with 5 year warranties. Used to be everything had a 5 year warranty. Then the consumer/prosumer drives drives were reduced to 3 years. Now the consumer/prosumer drives are reduced to 2 years. The enterprise drives remain at 5 years, which is good. Seagate has relegated Barracuda to consumer/prosumer and has introduced new enterprise drives. Seagate's 2.5 offerings (Momentus, for example) are still the best in my book, which is somewhat strange as Seagate didn't come out with a 2.5 offering until years after IBM (now Hitachi) and Toshiba, and, later, WD. Historically, IBM's SCSI 2.5 drives (500 and 1000 megabyte capacity) were originally intended for a UC-Berkeley-inspired RAID product, with the drives physically mounted on a blade-type controller card. Product never got off the ground, but IBM had already purchased Mylex (remember them ?) which was supposed to design the cards, with IBM supposed to make the packaging and firmware. IBM had already confirmed the concept of commodity drives in a Count-Key-Data array product, the 9345, using its own 5.25 SCSI drives, and the 2.5 version was logically a die shrink concept applied to the 9345. IBM is still largely Count-Key-Data, a concept which never seems to die. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Hard Drives
On Jun 2, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Dale Hoffman dh...@margnat.com wrote: When I purchase a new drive I look for those designated enterprise grade. They're the ones with 5 year warranties. On Jun 2, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very good discussion. Wonderful information here. Thanks a lot guys! Perhaps we could move it along more to the point of practical information, if folks could pitch in with specs to look for when buying modern hard drives. Most people simply go for size these days, but as Bruce and others have pointed, that could indeed be the curse. So, what tech specs must one keep in mind, folks? -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G-Group group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
hard drives
PM G4 933 with PCI SATA card. My SATA card (Seri-Tek1S2) has internal and external connections. The internal connection is connected to a 500 GB Seagate drive and seems to be working great for almost a year now. My first question - Why doesnt the drive show up in the System Profiler? The card shows up on the PCI Cards but no drive shows up in the Serial ATA or anywhere? Can I fix this? Second question - I am going to use the external SATA connection to connect to an external enclosure - strictly for back-up. I am going to use a Seagate drive because I still have good luck with them. Is it better to use one of the new green Barracuda 5900 rpm drives or the standard 7200 Barracuda drives (that I have been using for years)? Online reviews have not been helpful. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: hard drives
On Dec 8, 2011, at 4:40 PM, Baldassare Guzzo wrote: My SATA card (Seri-Tek1S2) has internal and external connections. I think you've got the model name wrong? The 1S2 was two internal connections only. The model that had two internal and two external was called the 1V2+2, or 1VE2+2, or 1eVE2+2. The internal connection is connected to a 500 GB Seagate drive and seems to be working great for almost a year now. My first question - Why doesnt the drive show up in the System Profiler? The card shows up on the PCI Cards but no drive shows up in the Serial ATA or anywhere? Can I fix this? I don't think so. If you boot from these SeriTek cards you can't Safe Boot either. There are some limitations to SeriTek cards, and lack of the HD showing in System Profiler is one. I assume this could be patched rather easily, on the hackintosh side there are often patched versions of System Profiler that show unsupported hardware, but these are normally Intel versions that won't likely run on a PPC Mac, and might not help this specific issue. Second question - I am going to use the external SATA connection to connect to an external enclosure - strictly for back-up. I am going to use a Seagate drive because I still have good luck with them. Is it better to use one of the new green Barracuda 5900 rpm drives or the standard 7200 Barracuda drives (that I have been using for years)? Probably doesn't matter. The main issue with external enclosures is cooling. Many enclosures lack any fan or active cooling, so higher RPM drives under heavy usage have been known to overheat in an external enclosure. It's likely the 5900 RPM green drive runs cooler than the 7200 RPM normal drive, but if it's only for backup, and you're rarely accessing the drive, use whichever you want. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: hard drives
On Dec 8, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Baldassare Guzzo wrote: PM G4 933 with PCI SATA card. My SATA card (Seri-Tek1S2) has internal and external connections. The internal connection is connected to a 500 GB Seagate drive and seems to be working great for almost a year now. My first question - Why doesnt the drive show up in the System Profiler? The card shows up on the PCI Cards but no drive shows up in the Serial ATA or anywhere? Can I fix this? Second question - I am going to use the external SATA connection to connect to an external enclosure - strictly for back-up. I am going to use a Seagate drive because I still have good luck with them. Is it better to use one of the new green Barracuda 5900 rpm drives or the standard 7200 Barracuda drives (that I have been using for years)? Online reviews have not been helpful. Well, I read those reviews too but I don't think I saw any Mac folks on them. I've a lot of Seagate HDD's and can't say anything bad, so I just bought 8 Seagate 2TB Green 5900 RPM 64 MB drives for two RAID boxes because Seagate uses them in the NAS and RAID systems they sell, plus a lot cheaper at this time:-) John Carmonne Yorba Linda CA 92886 USA MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
On 8/29/11 11:52 AM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: Below the optical drive there's room (and, I think, cables) for a second unit; in my G4, they are used for the Zip drive, so I couldn't add an HD there. The Zip drive bays may, in general, be used to house hard drives. In some cases, particularly with pre-QSes, it may be necessary to apply insulating tape to the interior of the bay. For this purpose I generally use Scotch (3M) filament strapping (packing) tape. Also, on QSes, it may be necessary to drill the bay for HD mounting screws. Remember: 1) the Zip bay was designed with Zip drives in mind, NOT HDs, and 2) although the external size of an HD is the same as a Zip, the two do not have the same mounting hardware nor the same hardware spacing (M3-0.5 for Zips, #6-32 UNC for HDs). I've put a hard drive in the zip bay on my G4... but you can only use two screws at a time. I didn't have it installed there for very long... I was moving some files from some smaller drives that was to be removed over to the new 3TB drive and I wasn't sure if it'd get enough air flow there since I don't think the zip drive gets as hot as it can -Matt -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
Il giorno 29-08-2011 5:26, cheryl ha scritto: I have a Quicksilver 2002 and a Blue and White G3. I need more hard drive space. Would it be possible to use the hard drive from the G3 in the G4, or maybe hook the two towers together somehow? AFAIK, any G4 uses the same IDE/PATA interface as the G3, so it can use any G3's HD. I have a G4 Digital Audio, and it took my Beige G3's HD flawlessly. The G4 QS has room for two drives internally (I think you could add a third one, but maybe not as easily). Just take care of the master/slave setup. When having more than one drive (or moving a drive from another computer), be sure one drive is master (better the boot drive) and the other is slave. Regarding hooking the two computers, I'm not sure what you mean. One way to access a different computer's drive, however, is using Firewire Target mode: - Boot the main Mac - Connect the two Macs using a Firewire cable - Boot the second Mac while holding down the T key (the screen should show a Firewire moving logo) - The second Mac's HD(s) should appear on the main Mac's desktop; remember to unmount (move to the Trash) it before disconnecting or switching off the Macs. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
On 8/28/11 9:35 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: I have a Quicksilver 2002 and a Blue and White G3. I need more hard drive space. Would it be possible to use the hard drive from the G3 in the G4, or maybe hook the two towers together somehow? Just curious. A QS 2002 supports large drives natively. I would install a 500 GB or 750 GB drive on top of the existing drive. 750s might be tough to find, however. I just thought I'd add this on adding space to the G4 since others have already answered the question regarding the existing IDE controllers: Personally I bought a Sonnet Tempo SATA controller and a Hitatchi 3TB(2.7TB according to Leopard and earlier) hard drive for my Gigabit G4. The drive even shows up when I boot into OS 9. Just realize that those drives do use more power than the original IDE drives so having too many of them could cause issues since the power supplies in the G4s were not particularly high wattage compared to what came not long after in the G5s. I wouldn't put more than two of them in along side the smaller IDE boot drive unless you do some modding and either replace the psu(at which point it'd be easier just go external by use firewire or adding an eSATA card ) If the digital audio G4 or BW cases are anything like the gigabit G4, then you have 5 3.5 drive bays. The bracket the original boot drive is installed in is actually made for two drives. There are two more single-drive brackets screwed into the bottom of the case between the two-drive bracket and the front of the case, and then there is the one more drive bay underneath the DVD drive. That said if you filled them all with the newest drives you'd probably overwhelm the power supply as I mentioned earlier. -Matt -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
On Aug 28, 9:35 pm, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: I have a Quicksilver 2002 and a Blue and White G3. I need more hard drive space. Would it be possible to use the hard drive from the G3 in the G4, or maybe hook the two towers together somehow? Just curious. A QS 2002 supports large drives natively. I would install a 500 GB or 750 GB drive on top of the existing drive. 750s might be tough to find, however. I don't have money to buy a drive. That's what I'd like to do, just add another drive; supposedly the QS has two bays for hard drives. I don't need a lot more space, but it would help to be able to store some of my stuff on a second drive. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
Il giorno 29-08-2011 16:04, cheryl ha scritto: I don't have money to buy a drive. Today you can easily find used/old IDE HDs, for free or dirt cheap, since many people is getting rid of old PCs, HDs included. When I visit my recycling center/skip, I always find many discarded PCs with working HDs (for free, obviously ;-). You can have plenty! :-D Remember PC's IDE drives are exactly the same drives used in G3/G4 generations Macs. With old/used drives, you obviously have an higher risk of them failing. Just be careful and backup often. That's what I'd like to do, just add another drive; supposedly the QS has two bays for hard drives. As mentioned before, the standard bay on the bottom (where the default HD resides) has room and cables for two drives. Below the optical drive there's room (and, I think, cables) for a second unit; in my G4, they are used for the Zip drive, so I couldn't add an HD there. Plus, you could add a PCI card (IDE or SATA), as someone mentioned, and connect two more drives to that; but that would mean $$$. :-) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
On Aug 29, 2011, at 12:26 AM, cheryl wrote: maybe hook the two towers together somehow? Just curious. Thanks! Cheryl Harris Tehachapi, CA Good question Cheryl! I would like to use my QuickSilver 2002's drives as an automatic back up to my iMac Intel dual w/ OS 10.5.8. Hope you don't mind if I piggy-back your query. Thanks -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Question about hard drives
Below the optical drive there's room (and, I think, cables) for a second unit; in my G4, they are used for the Zip drive, so I couldn't add an HD there. The Zip drive bays may, in general, be used to house hard drives. In some cases, particularly with pre-QSes, it may be necessary to apply insulating tape to the interior of the bay. For this purpose I generally use Scotch (3M) filament strapping (packing) tape. Also, on QSes, it may be necessary to drill the bay for HD mounting screws. Remember: 1) the Zip bay was designed with Zip drives in mind, NOT HDs, and 2) although the external size of an HD is the same as a Zip, the two do not have the same mounting hardware nor the same hardware spacing (M3-0.5 for Zips, #6-32 UNC for HDs). -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Question about hard drives
I have a Quicksilver 2002 and a Blue and White G3. I need more hard drive space. Would it be possible to use the hard drive from the G3 in the G4, or maybe hook the two towers together somehow? Just curious. Thanks! Cheryl Harris Tehachapi, CA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Can old enclosures handle big new hard drives?
I'm thinking of buying some 2 or even 3 TB hard drives (video eats lots of space) and putting them in some old enclosures that I have lying around. These enclosures are OWC Mercury Elites whose original hard drives, which were in the 250 - 320 GB range, have died over the years. I'd guess these enclosures are 4 or 5 years old. My question is, could an enclosure that originally held a 250 GB drive handle a 2 or 3 TB? Tom -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Can old enclosures handle big new hard drives?
My question is, could an enclosure that originally held a 250 GB drive handle a 2 or 3 TB? Surely 500 GB or even 640 GB. Possibly 1 or even 1.5 TB. Probably not 2 or 3 TB. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Can old enclosures handle big new hard drives?
Generally if they aren't already bigger then 1TB then no. I would say up to 500gb more then likely, but not much more then that. Even if it did recognize the hdd, it may not show all of the drive itself(as in space). On Aug 1, 10:26 pm, Tom tba...@nmia.com wrote: I'm thinking of buying some 2 or even 3 TB hard drives (video eats lots of space) and putting them in some old enclosures that I have lying around. These enclosures are OWC Mercury Elites whose original hard drives, which were in the 250 - 320 GB range, have died over the years. I'd guess these enclosures are 4 or 5 years old. My question is, could an enclosure that originally held a 250 GB drive handle a 2 or 3 TB? Tom -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Hard drives seen but not mounting
A couple of questions about hard drives and synching. I have a dozen IDE hard drives of assorted sizes and makes from 4GB up to 250GB that maybe one or two are definitely bricks. When I hook them up in an external enclosure some show up in Disk utility (only the first line, the second does not show on the left hand side in the listing of drives) and they don't mount. I can't run first aid and it looks like I can reinitialize some of them but not others. Before I try the reinitialize option I would like to see what is on them first. Drive Genius and Tech Tool do not see them either, only Disk Utility does so far. The others mount and run fine. I have tried different USB and firewire ports and cables, a different enclosure as well with no improvement. Looking around the web I am reading that since I am using (a PowerMac G5 with) Leopard 10.5.8, that may be causing the problem. It has been suggested that I check them while running Tiger or even Panther. Before I install Panther or Tiger on a drive and run it in the G5 I was hoping someone had some experience with this issue and could offer some guidance. Thank you. m ray bluellama...@embarqmail.com -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Hard drives seen but not mounting
On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:32 AM, mark ray wrote: Looking around the web I am reading that since I am using (a PowerMac G5 with) Leopard 10.5.8, that may be causing the problem. Highly unlikely. It has been suggested that I check them while running Tiger or even Panther. Largely BS evidence. Where are the drives coming from? If they're coming from Windows systems they may be NTFS, and if they were unmounted in a 'dirty' state, they may not be mountable with out the force option, which (iirc) Disk Utility does not offer. You need HTFS-3G for OS X: NTFS-3G for OS X http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/ntfs3g.html This also gains you REad/Write access to NTFS volumes. If, after this you cannot mount the volumes, likely there's nothing to mount; reformat 'em and test 'em. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Hard drives seen but not mounting
Thanks Bruce that's why I was asking. These were all from macs I have had in my studio and upgraded over the years. one or two may have come from an external case. I will check out your suggestion, thank you, appreciate your advice. mark ray bluellama...@embarqmail.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:32 AM, mark ray wrote: Looking around the web I am reading that since I am using (a PowerMac G5 with) Leopard 10.5.8, that may be causing the problem. Highly unlikely. It has been suggested that I check them while running Tiger or even Panther. Largely BS evidence. Where are the drives coming from? If they're coming from Windows systems they may be NTFS, and if they were unmounted in a 'dirty' state, they may not be mountable with out the force option, which (iirc) Disk Utility does not offer. You need HTFS-3G for OS X: NTFS-3G for OS X http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/ntfs3g.html This also gains you REad/Write access to NTFS volumes. If, after this you cannot mount the volumes, likely there's nothing to mount; reformat 'em and test 'em. -- Bruce Johnson -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Hard drives seen but not mounting
-Original Message- From: mark ray bluellama...@embarqmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:32 am Subject: Hard drives seen but not mounting A couple of questions about hard drives and synching. I have a dozen IDE hard drives of assorted sizes and makes from 4GB up to 250GB that maybe one or two are definitely bricks. When I hook them up in an external enclosure some show up in Disk utility (only the first line, the second does not show on the left hand side in the listing of drives) and they don't mount. I can't run first aid and it looks like I can reinitialize some of them but not others. Before I try the reinitialize option I would like to see what is on them first. Drive Genius and Tech Tool do not see them either, only Disk Utility does so far. The others mount and run fine. I have tried different USB and firewire ports and cables, a different enclosure as well with no improvement. Looking around the web I am reading that since I am using (a PowerMac G5 with) Leopard 10.5.8, that may be causing the problem. It has been suggested that I check them while running Tiger or even Panther. Before I install Panther or Tiger on a drive and run it in the G5 I was hoping someone had some experience with this issue and could offer some guidance. Thank you. m ray bluellama...@embarqmail.com If disk utility sees the drive then DiskWarrior should also. I would run Diskwarrior on them. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA - -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Hard drives seen but not mounting
On Feb 15, 2010, at 12:34 PM, mark ray wrote: Thanks Bruce that's why I was asking. These were all from macs I have had in my studio and upgraded over the years. one or two may have come from an external case. I will check out your suggestion, thank you, appreciate your advice. If they were all from Macs or external systems they're either HFS+ or FAT32, not NTFS, you would have to go out of your way to make 'em NTFS. If they're scavenged from Windows systems, though, NTFS is a distinct possibility. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Hard drives seen but not mounting
On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:32 PM, mark ray wrote: I have a dozen IDE hard drives of assorted sizes and makes from 4GB up to 250GB that maybe one or two are definitely bricks. When I hook them up in an external enclosure some show up in Disk utility (only the first line, the second does not show on the left hand side in the listing of drives) and they don't mount. I can't run first aid and it looks like I can reinitialize some of them but not others. Before I try the reinitialize option I would like to see what is on them first. Drive Genius and Tech Tool do not see them either, only Disk Utility does so far. The others mount and run fine. I have tried different USB and firewire ports and cables, a different enclosure as well with no improvement. * I encountered this problem yesterday. The issue in my case turned out to be insufficient power to the external drive enclosure, which when enhanced with a secondary USB (I assume it might as effectively been through an AC power brick) power supply to the 5 volt DC power receptacle on the enclosure, the seemingly unreadable drive suddenly immediately became readable, and I was then successful in transferring the data on the drive in the enclosure to my new MacBook. In my case, the extra power was supplied by a cable with a USB connector attached to the second USB receptacle on the MacBook, which has the right size cylindrical plug for the drive enclosure's auxiliary power receptacle at the other end. It might be worth note that this same external drive enclosure, containing the same hard drive, when used via FireWire on my PowerBook G4, without any external power supply, is able to boot and operate the PowerBook G4. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Sorry people, I don't know how my last post tripled itself. I answered not from my mail account but from inside Google Groups, the same way I posted my other comments. I hope this post stays single ;-) Regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives Date:Sonntag 25 Oktober 2009N From:yawg yaw...@gmail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Hi, I can boot from my big SATA drives with the adapters perfectly. Regards, Jörg. So, yawg is Jörg... Hello! With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Michael, I don't think I trust the Acard adapter. I've not read many encouraging reviews of it. If I don't get the Firm Tek, I'll get the adapters. Are the adapters as reliable as a SATA PCI card? I think I'd rather get the PCI card over the adapters if I can use larger drives. Get the adapters. They are small and cheap and even work both ways, i.e. you can also attach an old PATA drive to a SATA cable. They fit nicely in the original spaces in my MDD. When I start up in OS9 I can't see or access those SATA drives though, that's because they are too big for OS9 i.e. 1.5TB. Success! Regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Mike, I forgot: the adapter is called OEM IDE2SATA Ultra-ATA to Serial-ATA adapter. You can see the picture here: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/?categorie_id=629 It's the cheapest of the four, the lower on the right. Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Mike, I forgot: the adapter is called OEM IDE2SATA Ultra-ATA to Serial-ATA adapter. You can see the picture here: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/?categorie_id=629 It's the cheapest of the four, the lower on the right. Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives Date:Samstag 24 Oktober 2009N From:Michael G.M. michaelgm717...@gmail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Oct 23, 8:56 am, dc dbc...@verizon.net wrote: Jump over the the LEM Swap List quickly, there's a nice SATA PCI card for only $45!!! I don't think I trust the Acard adapter. I've not read many encouraging reviews of it. If I don't get the Firm Tek, I'll get the adapters. Are the adapters as reliable as a SATA PCI card? I think I'd rather get the PCI card over the adapters if I can use larger drives. SOLUTION #1: SATA PCI card ## The advantage of a Mac compatible PCI card for SATA drives is that it will be -in theory- much faster than through IDE/ATA (PATA). A Mac card should also enable booting from the connected SATA drives, which is not so easy I guess. SOLUTION #2: SATA to IDE/ATA converter ## The advantage of using a converter is that it operates completely independent from the computer hardware. The adaptor makes a SATA drive look like an ordinary ATA drive, and versi versa. The one thing to consider is the ability of the IDE/ATA chip _and_ (as mentioned by ycawg) the operating system to access big drives (i.e. LBA-48 instead of LBA-28). * All Power Macs starting from the Quicksilver 2002 have LBA-48 support. * All Power Macs with a KeyLargo ATA controller chip can handle LBA-48, but it has to be described as an Open Firmware property. * Mac OS X starting from 10.2.6 has LBA-48 support (only with OF property). * Mac OS 9 doesn't have LBA-48 support. If you should happen to have a KeyLargo ATA controller, but your drives are limited to 128 GB anyway (i.e. only LBA-28 is used), you should take a look at this: http://www.4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard- drives.html Your system has a KeyLargo chip if the AppleKeyLargo.kext driver is used (see System Profiler or Disk Utility, although I'm not sure where exactly). There is also a disadvantage: some converters are too big to be put in front of the drive. I had a problem connecting a SATA drive to my Quicksilver 2001 (with a rewritten Open Firmware to support LBA-48). The converter was not only too big and I couldn't close the side door while the drive was connected, it was also placed on the other side compared to a regular ATA drive. It was impossible to connect a true ATA drive and a SATA drive with converter at the same time -in the original drive bay- using the original Ultra-ATA IDE cable. It may work with two SATA drives that use the same converter. On my Power Mac G5 Late 2005 (that provides two SATA drive bays) I had a similar problem when the SATA cable was just long enough to connect to the converter (which was connected to the IDE/ATA drive). It was possible, but the SATA cable was bended and tightened, since the connector on the converter was rotated by 90 degrees and sitting a bit higher. Also with the below mentioned DS-33150 SATA to IDE adapter I needed two (!) extra standard 5V plugs, one for the adapter itself (the converter chip needs power too) and one for the IDE drive. The SATA plug doesn't work for neighter the converter nor the drive, but maybe there is an adapter for that too. I used the DIGITUS products which work only one way. * Digitus DS-33150 SATA to IDE adapter http://www.digitus.info/en/products/accessories/?c=1504p=15614 * Digitus DS-33151 IDE to SATA Adapter http://www.digitus.info/en/products/accessories/?c=1504p=15615 You would use the DS-33151 IDE to SATA Adapter to connect two SATA drives to the IDE bus of your Power Mac. If your system is a Quicksilver 2002 or an MDD (FW400 and FW800) just go for it, provided you can get the installation right. With a pre-Quicksilver 2002 Power Mac you should first check if a KeyLargo chip is used for the Ultra-ATA IDE bus. If so, use the Open Firmware patch and go for it. If you system cannot handle 128 GB drives you NEED to get a PCI card for either SATA or IDE/ATA that can handle big drives natively. You would go for the SATA PCI card off course, but keep in mind that the card should support booting from its connected drives. Hope that wasn't too compilicated and helps, cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi, I can boot from my big SATA drives with the adapters perfectly. Regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
On Oct 22, 2:14 am, Michael G.M. michaelgm717...@gmail.com wrote: How long do you guys think PPC Mac users with IDE/ATA hard drives have as far as being totally obsolete and finding SATA PCI cards will be nigh impossible. Jump over the the LEM Swap List quickly, there's a nice SATA PCI card for only $45!!! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi, How long do you guys think PPC Mac users with IDE/ATA hard drives have as far as being totally obsolete and finding SATA PCI cards will be nigh impossible. Jump over the the LEM Swap List quickly, there's a nice SATA PCI card for only $45!!! You should just get an adapter, I use two of them to connect cheap 1.5TB drives, they work like a charm. They should cost around 10 Dollars. ATA-drives are mostly 500GB max. and cost the same as much bigger SATA-drives. My SATA drives connected via the adapters are quieter than my ATA drives and as fast if not faster. I use these adapters: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/?itemtype_id=4233categorie_id=61 Regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi, How long do you guys think PPC Mac users with IDE/ATA hard drives have as far as being totally obsolete and finding SATA PCI cards will be nigh impossible. Jump over the the LEM Swap List quickly, there's a nice SATA PCI card for only $45!!! You should just get an adapter, I use two of them to connect cheap 1.5TB drives, they work like a charm. They should cost around 10 Dollars. ATA-drives are mostly 500GB max. and cost the same as much bigger SATA-drives. My SATA drives connected via the adapters are quieter than my ATA drives and as fast if not faster. I use these adapters: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/?itemtype_id=4233categorie_id=61 Regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 7:54 PM, yawg yaw...@gmail.com wrote: I use these adapters: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/?itemtype_id=4233categorie_id=61 Regards, Jörg. I think Jörg meant to include a link pointing towards something like this: http://www.nowthatsit.nl/categorie.asp?categorie_id=629 The advantage of SATA - PATA converters ... when they work ... is that it works at level so low in the hardware that the operating system isn't really aware that it is there. So you shouldn't ... in theory ... have to worry about whether firmware is compatible with your MAC or not. I've had good luck using converters to continue using PATA drives with a SATA motherboard. Whether or not the ones to convert a PATA socket for use with SATA drives would work for you I can not promise. But you might want to consider trying it. (Or not). -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
On Oct 23, 8:56 am, dc dbc...@verizon.net wrote: Jump over the the LEM Swap List quickly, there's a nice SATA PCI card for only $45!!! I don't think I trust the Acard adapter. I've not read many encouraging reviews of it. If I don't get the Firm Tek, I'll get the adapters. Are the adapters as reliable as a SATA PCI card? I think I'd rather get the PCI card over the adapters if I can use larger drives. -M --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
IDE/ATA Hard drives
I was wondering and I've been wondering about this for some time now, and as time goes on I get a little more restless about the subject... How long do you guys think PPC Mac users with IDE/ATA hard drives have as far as being totally obsolete and finding SATA PCI cards will be nigh impossible. I probably worry too much, but I was just wondering what other people think. All my Macs use ATA drives and none of them have SATA PCI cards for expanding. The ATA PCI cards are now almost impossible to find from retailers at reasonable prices, and at the price you can find them you might as well go SATA instead for larger and faster drive options. The only step ahead I've taken is a SATA external drive for my wife's incremental backup and clone. BTW, which of the chipsets are better, the 911 or the 934, and why? Thanks! M r --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Howdy, I think it is a valid concern. I bought 4 sata to ide adapters recently for this reason. They let uou plug in sata drives to IDE adapters, as long as there is physically room. They are cheap and available at the moment. In a few years, they may be hard to find. Maybe not, but I think it is cheap insurance. Kind of like buying a few extra 1 GB and 2 GB SD cards while you can get them cheap. Some devices can't handle big cards and small ones will be hard to find in a year or two. My point is that this kind of technology migration occurs all the time and you should prepare yourself a little. On the other hand, eBay may be a source of parts for a while. Good luck, Ralph On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 23:14 -0700, Michael G.M. wrote: I was wondering and I've been wondering about this for some time now, and as time goes on I get a little more restless about the subject... How long do you guys think PPC Mac users with IDE/ATA hard drives have as far as being totally obsolete and finding SATA PCI cards will be nigh impossible. I probably worry too much, but I was just --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
To Bruce and others - Well, I transferred over all the hard drives, including the boot-up drive, and except for some temporary issues that seem related to a PCI firewire card I tried to install at the same time, all seems to have gone well. Thanks for the advice and encouragement! Mira --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On 9/24/09 10:42 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: I know someone who DID add memory to a running G4 tower. Amazingly it all lived. It crashed immediately, but on a restart it all worked. The beauty of macs! I wonder what would happen on a PC? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Charles Lenington wrote: Now of course there is the on purpose power up drive , quicky pull power and drop on floor/ The noise is fun. We had a bunch of under 1 gig hospital content drives to erase/destroy. My daughter's boyfriend tried to create a whole new category (or at least add himself to a list for one). As he was opening up his new MBP to add memory to it I noticed the sleep light was pulsing so I advised him he might want to shut the computer down first. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 24, 2009, at 12:07 AM, Clark Martin wrote: Charles Lenington wrote: Now of course there is the on purpose power up drive , quicky pull power and drop on floor/ The noise is fun. We had a bunch of under 1 gig hospital content drives to erase/destroy. My daughter's boyfriend tried to create a whole new category (or at least add himself to a list for one). As he was opening up his new MBP to add memory to it I noticed the sleep light was pulsing so I advised him he might want to shut the computer down first. I know someone who DID add memory to a running G4 tower. Amazingly it all lived. It crashed immediately, but on a restart it all worked. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 24, 2009, at 12:07 AM, Clark Martin wrote: Charles Lenington wrote: Now of course there is the on purpose power up drive , quicky pull power and drop on floor/ The noise is fun. We had a bunch of under 1 gig hospital content drives to erase/destroy. My daughter's boyfriend tried to create a whole new category (or at least add himself to a list for one). As he was opening up his new MBP to add memory to it I noticed the sleep light was pulsing so I advised him he might want to shut the computer down first. I know someone who DID add memory to a running G4 tower. Amazingly it all lived. It crashed immediately, but on a restart it all worked. Yeah you CAN do it but it's the computer equivalent of Russian Roulette. I think I did it once myself. I'm pretty sure it didn't break anything. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
I need to move my internal hard drives, including the start-up drive from a G4 dual 867mHz to a G4 1.25mHz. They are from the same line, August 2002. I have made a clone of the start-up as a back-up copy. Can I just move the hard drives from the 867 to the 1.25, and boot up the 1.25, or is there some intermediate step I'm unaware of? (The 867 is working, but the power supply is going, and it was cheaper to buy this used 1.25) I plan to keep the 867 for parts. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On 9/23/09 6:38 AM, Mel wrote: I've swapped boot HDs and booted the receiving CPU without incident several times among various G4s Mel, did your app worked after this? Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result in the same? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
I've swapped boot HDs and booted the receiving CPU without incident several times among various G4s Mel, did your app worked after this? Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result === That is a different question. All 'my' Apps worked in all the G4s but that does not mean all the original questioner's Apps will work. There might be Apps that will work on one G4 but not another according to the configurations and Specs of the two different machines. As for transferring just the Apps, I have not tried that. I prefer to use CCC to make complete backups. --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: From: Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 6:06 AM On 9/23/09 6:38 AM, Mel wrote: I've swapped boot HDs and booted the receiving CPU without incident several times among various G4s Mel, did your app worked after this? Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result in the same? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Both are MDD dual G4 from this line: CPU CPU: PowerPC 7455 G4 CPU Speed: 2x867 MHz/2x1.0 GHz/2x1.25 GHz FPU: integrated Bus Speed: 166 MHz Data Path Width: 64 bit Address Width: 32 bit ROM: 1 MB ROM + 3 MB toolbox ROM loaded into RAM RAM Type: PC2700 DDR Minimum RAM Speed: 333 MHz Onboard RAM: 0 MB RAM slots: 4 Maximum RAM: 2.0 GB Level 1 Cache: 32 kB data, 32 kB instruction Level 2 Cache: 256 kB on-chip, 1:1 Level 3 Cache: 1 MB DDR SDRAM per-processor, 1:4 (2 MB for 2x 1.25 GHz) Expansion Slots: 4 64-bit 33 MHz PCI, 1 4x AGP (filled) Video Video Card/Chipset: ATI Radeon 9000 Pro VRAM: 64 MB Max Resolution: all resolutions supported Video Out: VGA/DVI, ADC Storage Hard Drive: 60/80/120 GB ATA Bus: Ultra ATA-100 Optical Drive: 24x/8x/4x/6x/2x/1x CD-RW/DVD-R Input/Output USB: 2 Firewire: 2 Audio Out: 2x stereo 16 bit mini, Pro Speaker Audio In: stereo 16 bit mini Speaker: mono Networking Modem: 56 kbps Ethernet: 10/100/1000Base-T Airport: optional card Miscellaneous Family: PowerMac G3/G4/G5 Codename: P57 Gestalt ID: 406 Power: 338 Watts Dimensions: 17 H x 8.9 W x 18.4 D Weight: 42 lbs. Minimum OS: 9.2.2 Maximum OS: 10.5.6 Introduced: August 2002 Terminated: Late 2004 What I would like to do is move all my drives, including the boot-up drive, from the 867 to the 1.25. The 867 is currently running Leopard. The 1.25 has a 160G boot-up drive currently running Tiger. I would remove the 160G drive from the 1.25 and replace it with my 500G boot-up drive from my 867. Is this possible? Would I create some issues if I try? Mira On Sep 23, 7:38 am, Mel mll...@yahoo.com wrote: If the OS is comparable for both CPUs, it seems that you can make the mechanical transfer of the HD and boot without incident. I've swapped boot HDs and booted the receiving CPU without incident several times among various G4s but none newer than a DA. E.G. Swapping a boot HD from a DP DA to a Sawtooth and vice versa. Anyone have a different experience? Mel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 1:42 AM, mkehoe wrote: I need to move my internal hard drives, including the start-up drive from a G4 dual 867mHz to a G4 1.25mHz. They are from the same line, August 2002. I have made a clone of the start-up as a back-up copy. Yep, no issues at all. The drive in my current laptop has been in two machines, my pismo then my TiBook, in my desktop in three. 7600- Beige G3 - Gig Ethernet. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Nestamicky wrote: On 9/23/09 6:38 AM, Mel wrote: I've swapped boot HDs and booted the receiving CPU without incident several times among various G4s Mel, did your app worked after this? In my case all apps worked...a HD is a 'total brian transplant' and OS X is truly universal install, all drivers for all supported systems are included, although this has changed with the advent of Snow Leopard. Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result in the same? Yes and no. Serial numbers, etc etc will have to be re-entered, since that info tends to live in preference files or Application support folders in ~Library and /Library. iTunes, (and possibly other applications) uses the MAC address of the built-in ethernet for authentication of a computer, you'll have to re- register your computer with iTunes to play protected media. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Nestamicky wrote: Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result in the same? iTunes, (and possibly other applications) uses the MAC address of the built-in ethernet for authentication of a computer, you'll have to re- register your computer with iTunes to play protected media. Make SURE you De-Authorize the old computer before removing the HD. Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Len Gerstel wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Nestamicky wrote: Would transferring just the application folder from one machine to another result in the same? iTunes, (and possibly other applications) uses the MAC address of the built-in ethernet for authentication of a computer, you'll have to re- register your computer with iTunes to play protected media. Make SURE you De-Authorize the old computer before removing the HD. Only if you're at your 5 computer limit, or you're selling the old one. You can do what I did, and deauthorize all computers, then re- authorize 'em. IIRC Apple limits you to one mass deauthorization per 6 calendar months. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
At 11:20 AM -0700 9/23/2009, mkehoe wrote: Bruce others - I appreciate your comments. This is the first time I am changing from one computer to another. I want to make sure I understand about the process of authorization. This has nothing to do with just moving the HDs - the OS and apps will just work. Authorization is an iTunes issue ONLY. Its point being that it limits how many computers can be used to play the stuff you've bought from the iTunes Store. And it recognizes those computers with enough intelligence that the authorization won't magically move when you move the HD. So you need to de-authorize that computer first, then move the HD, then authorize the new. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Thanks Bruce Dan - I don't have any music purchased from iTunes, so it sounds like I can just shut down the 867mHz G4, take out the hard drives, and install them into the 1.25mHz G4 and power it up. Correct? Mira On Sep 23, 1:49 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 11:20 AM -0700 9/23/2009, mkehoe wrote: Bruce others - I appreciate your comments. This is the first time I am changing from one computer to another. I want to make sure I understand about the process of authorization. This has nothing to do with just moving the HDs - the OS and apps will just work. Authorization is an iTunes issue ONLY. Its point being that it limits how many computers can be used to play the stuff you've bought from the iTunes Store. And it recognizes those computers with enough intelligence that the authorization won't magically move when you move the HD. So you need to de-authorize that computer first, then move the HD, then authorize the new. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
I moved a boot drive with 10.4 server on it from a single 533MHZ digital audio to a dual 1GHZ xserve, and then a dual 1.33GHZ xserve and it booted right up. -Jonas On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, mkehoe mirake...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Bruce Dan - I don't have any music purchased from iTunes, so it sounds like I can just shut down the 867mHz G4, take out the hard drives, and install them into the 1.25mHz G4 and power it up. Correct? Mira On Sep 23, 1:49 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 11:20 AM -0700 9/23/2009, mkehoe wrote: Bruce others - I appreciate your comments. This is the first time I am changing from one computer to another. I want to make sure I understand about the process of authorization. This has nothing to do with just moving the HDs - the OS and apps will just work. Authorization is an iTunes issue ONLY. Its point being that it limits how many computers can be used to play the stuff you've bought from the iTunes Store. And it recognizes those computers with enough intelligence that the authorization won't magically move when you move the HD. So you need to de-authorize that computer first, then move the HD, then authorize the new. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:37 PM, mkehoe wrote: Thanks Bruce Dan - I don't have any music purchased from iTunes, so it sounds like I can just shut down the 867mHz G4, take out the hard drives, and install them into the 1.25mHz G4 and power it up. Yep. Make sure you don't take the extra step of dropping the hard drive onto the concrete floor like I did one time. :-) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Here is a suggestion that I believe will be better for you. Have you considered buying a used second HD. If you do, install it as a slave in your current CPU. Use CCC to clone it. Restart and reboot holding down the option key. When the arrow appears, click on the slave drive and continue the boot process. It should boot your CPU. When it does, shut it down and RR which ever HD you choose to the other CPU, remembering, if you choose the slave drive to RR to convert it into a master. Then boot from that other HD. It should work. Mel --- On Wed, 9/23/09, mkehoe mirake...@gmail.com wrote: From: mkehoe mirake...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 12:37 PM Thanks Bruce Dan - I don't have any music purchased from iTunes, so it sounds like I can just shut down the 867mHz G4, take out the hard drives, and install them into the 1.25mHz G4 and power it up. Correct? Mira On Sep 23, 1:49 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 11:20 AM -0700 9/23/2009, mkehoe wrote: Bruce others - I appreciate your comments. This is the first time I am changing from one computer to another. I want to make sure I understand about the process of authorization. This has nothing to do with just moving the HDs - the OS and apps will just work. Authorization is an iTunes issue ONLY. Its point being that it limits how many computers can be used to play the stuff you've bought from the iTunes Store. And it recognizes those computers with enough intelligence that the authorization won't magically move when you move the HD. So you need to de-authorize that computer first, then move the HD, then authorize the new. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Mel wrote: Here is a suggestion that I believe will be better for you. Have you considered buying a used second HD. If you do, install it as a slave in your current CPU. Use CCC to clone it. Restart and reboot holding down the option key. When the arrow appears, click on the slave drive and continue the boot process. It should boot your CPU. When it does, shut it down and RR which ever HD you choose to the other CPU, remembering, if you choose the slave drive to RR to convert it into a master. Then boot from that other HD. It should work. Whaa? What you've described is just rebooting to a different drive in the same system. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:37 PM, mkehoe wrote: Thanks Bruce Dan - I don't have any music purchased from iTunes, so it sounds like I can just shut down the 867mHz G4, take out the hard drives, and install them into the 1.25mHz G4 and power it up. Yep. Make sure you don't take the extra step of dropping the hard drive onto the concrete floor like I did one time. :-) I thought we all had to do that once. It was some sort of requirement. You notice they never drop on foam padding or even carpet, only on concrete. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 2:35 PM, Clark Martin wrote: Make sure you don't take the extra step of dropping the hard drive onto the concrete floor like I did one time. :-) I thought we all had to do that once. It was some sort of requirement. You notice they never drop on foam padding or even carpet, only on concrete. What got me is that it landed perfectly *on edge*, from desk height, and stayed there. All it ever did was make a sort of SKKKSSSHHHSKKKSHHH grinding noise after that... did that, 15 years ago...old 20MB drive right off my desk, hit hard enough to leave a dent in the metal. it was in the middle of writing data when it happened. got an error on that file but the drive still worked. Last I checked the drive still works, that was a few years ago, gathering dust in my attic now. -sam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Sep 23, 2009, at 2:35 PM, Clark Martin wrote: Make sure you don't take the extra step of dropping the hard drive onto the concrete floor like I did one time. :-) I thought we all had to do that once. It was some sort of requirement. You notice they never drop on foam padding or even carpet, only on concrete. What got me is that it landed perfectly *on edge*, from desk height, and stayed there. All it ever did was make a sort of SKKKSSSHHHSKKKSHHH grinding noise after that... I don't know how mine landed, cursing makes it hard to make observations. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Yes indeed that is what I suggested. Test it first in the G4 after cloning to see if it boots. If it does, then make the RR. --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: From: Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Subject: Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:34 PM On Sep 23, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Mel wrote: Here is a suggestion that I believe will be better for you. Have you considered buying a used second HD. If you do, install it as a slave in your current CPU. Use CCC to clone it. Restart and reboot holding down the option key. When the arrow appears, click on the slave drive and continue the boot process. It should boot your CPU. When it does, shut it down and RR which ever HD you choose to the other CPU, remembering, if you choose the slave drive to RR to convert it into a master. Then boot from that other HD. It should work. Whaa? What you've described is just rebooting to a different drive in the same system. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Moving hard drives from one dual G4 to another
Clark Martin wrote: I thought we all had to do that once. It was some sort of requirement. You notice they never drop on foam padding or even carpet, only on concrete. Now of course there is the on purpose power up drive , quicky pull power and drop on floor/ The noise is fun. We had a bunch of under 1 gig hospital content drives to erase/destroy. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Green hard drives
Now that more manufacturers are coming out with the so-called 'green' drives, and since there is a current thread on servers, I'm wondering if green drives are counter-intuitive for those wanting to upgrade servers that are rarely in an idle mode? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Green hard drives
On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve R wrote: Now that more manufacturers are coming out with the so-called 'green' drives, and since there is a current thread on servers, I'm wondering if green drives are counter-intuitive for those wanting to upgrade servers that are rarely in an idle mode? Much of the current work towards robust and large capacity small drives has been driven by people wanting to reduce heat/power loads in servers. It all depends on how these manufacturers define 'green' low power or sleep a lot?; I confess I've not seen what you're talking about, have any examples? -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Green hard drives
At 1:16 PM -0700 3/26/09, Bruce Johnson posted: On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve R wrote: Now that more manufacturers are coming out with the so-called 'green' drives, and since there is a current thread on servers, I'm wondering if green drives are counter-intuitive for those wanting to upgrade servers that are rarely in an idle mode? Much of the current work towards robust and large capacity small drives has been driven by people wanting to reduce heat/power loads in servers. It all depends on how these manufacturers define 'green' low power or sleep a lot?; I confess I've not seen what you're talking about, have any examples? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4426054sku=TSD-1000EADScm_sp=Footer-_-Spot%2005-_-CatId_8_TSD-1000EADS WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to standard desktop drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek , IntelliPark , and IntelliPower technologies. ... etc All of which sound great for a drive that isn't constantly being written to, but if the drive is being constantly used, all the Intelli's wouldn't have a chance to kick in? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Green hard drives
On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Steve R wrote: At 1:16 PM -0700 3/26/09, Bruce Johnson posted: On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve R wrote: Now that more manufacturers are coming out with the so-called 'green' drives, and since there is a current thread on servers, I'm wondering if green drives are counter-intuitive for those wanting to upgrade servers that are rarely in an idle mode? Much of the current work towards robust and large capacity small drives has been driven by people wanting to reduce heat/power loads in servers. It all depends on how these manufacturers define 'green' low power or sleep a lot?; I confess I've not seen what you're talking about, have any examples? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4426054sku=TSD-1000EADScm_sp=Footer-_-Spot%2005-_-CatId_8_TSD-1000EADS WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to standard desktop drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek , IntelliPark , and IntelliPower technologies. ... etc All of which sound great for a drive that isn't constantly being written to, but if the drive is being constantly used, all the Intelli's wouldn't have a chance to kick in? True, this is why on the enterprise end they've been working on things like 2.5 SAS drives http://tinyurl.com/dh7gje. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Green hard drives
At 1:55 PM -0700 3/26/09, Bruce Johnson posted: On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Steve R wrote: At 1:16 PM -0700 3/26/09, Bruce Johnson posted: On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve R wrote: Now that more manufacturers are coming out with the so-called 'green' drives, and since there is a current thread on servers, I'm wondering if green drives are counter-intuitive for those wanting to upgrade servers that are rarely in an idle mode? Much of the current work towards robust and large capacity small drives has been driven by people wanting to reduce heat/power loads in servers. It all depends on how these manufacturers define 'green' low power or sleep a lot?; I confess I've not seen what you're talking about, have any examples? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4426054sku=TSD-1000EADScm_sp=Footer-_-Spot%2005-_-CatId_8_TSD-1000EADS WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to standard desktop drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek , IntelliPark , and IntelliPower technologies. ... etc All of which sound great for a drive that isn't constantly being written to, but if the drive is being constantly used, all the Intelli's wouldn't have a chance to kick in? True, this is why on the enterprise end they've been working on things like 2.5 SAS drives http://tinyurl.com/dh7gje. Interesting read... thanks. Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
WTB: 80 to 120 GB 3.5 internal Ultra ATA hard drives for PowerMac G4
Revised: I need one or two 3.5 drives (80 to 120 GB) for use in a PowerMac G4 Digital Audio computer. Please send me your best price including shipping to 46322. Thanks again. Bill On Thursday, March 12, 2009, at 12:53PM, BillBoggs billbo...@mac.com wrote: Hi Folks, I need a couple of good working internal hard drives for use in a PowerMac G4. I will pay quickly via Paypal. Thanks! Bill --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
mythmaker18 wrote: Thanks, Clark. I just wanted to be sure, since I remember having overheating problems with some non-original-spec hard drives in the cramped 6100 case. I never had problems with HDs in a 6100 (lots of them) including up to 1Gb drives. The only system I ever had trouble with was a PM 7500 when I put a Seagate 4Gb drive in it. The drive was half-height (1.5) and older tech. I put a small fan in the case to keep it cool. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
i have had plenty of g3 imacs all with different upgraded hard drives. I had one that I would leave on for weeks on end. Never a problem.-Jonas On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net wrote: mythmaker18 wrote: Thanks, Clark. I just wanted to be sure, since I remember having overheating problems with some non-original-spec hard drives in the cramped 6100 case. I never had problems with HDs in a 6100 (lots of them) including up to 1Gb drives. The only system I ever had trouble with was a PM 7500 when I put a Seagate 4Gb drive in it. The drive was half-height (1.5) and older tech. I put a small fan in the case to keep it cool. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
I've got a couple G3 iMacs I inherited and was planning to fix them up for family, one 350 slot-loaded and one 500 slot-loaded. Unfortunately, one of them had the HD removed. On most Macs, I'd just slap in one I have lying around, but as the iMac is a closed computer, I'm concerned that sticking in just any old hard drive might lead to overheating issues? I know I used to have problems with HDs overheating in the cramped PM 6100s. I seem to remember some HDs in the all-in-ones (5x00s or maybe the Bondi iMac) having a special hole drilled in the top, maybe to vent away heat? Anybody have any idea if the below HDs would work okay in a G3 iMac, or if they would run too hot? IBM Deskstar 20.5GB. Model IC35L020AVER07-0 IBM 22.0GB. Model DJNA-372200 Also, what about HDs pulled from Beige G3s. Would those work okay as far as not running too hot, or would I be better off staying away from those for other reasons (too old/slow, etc.?) Is there anything I need to look for specifically when replacing a hard drive in one of these all-in-one iMacs if none of the above will be suitable? Andy McKinney --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
On 9/3/09 14:38, mythmaker18 mythmake...@yahoo.com wrote: I've got a couple G3 iMacs I inherited and was planning to fix them up for family, one 350 slot-loaded and one 500 slot-loaded. Unfortunately, one of them had the HD removed. On most Macs, I'd just slap in one I have lying around, but as the iMac is a closed computer, I'm concerned that sticking in just any old hard drive might lead to overheating issues? I know I used to have problems with HDs overheating in the cramped PM 6100s. I seem to remember some HDs in the all-in-ones (5x00s or maybe the Bondi iMac) having a special hole drilled in the top, maybe to vent away heat? Anybody have any idea if the below HDs would work okay in a G3 iMac, or if they would run too hot? IBM Deskstar 20.5GB. Model IC35L020AVER07-0 IBM 22.0GB. Model DJNA-372200 Also, what about HDs pulled from Beige G3s. Would those work okay as far as not running too hot, or would I be better off staying away from those for other reasons (too old/slow, etc.?) Is there anything I need to look for specifically when replacing a hard drive in one of these all-in-one iMacs if none of the above will be suitable? Andy McKinney I have a strawberry 350mhz G3 iMac running Tiger (called Stinky Pinky) which has an 80GB Hitachi 7200rpm Deskstar in and has never had any problems since installation - even though it often runs 24/7. Pete --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
mythmaker18 wrote: I've got a couple G3 iMacs I inherited and was planning to fix them up for family, one 350 slot-loaded and one 500 slot-loaded. Unfortunately, one of them had the HD removed. On most Macs, I'd just slap in one I have lying around, but as the iMac is a closed computer, I'm concerned that sticking in just any old hard drive might lead to overheating issues? I know I used to have problems with HDs overheating in the cramped PM 6100s. I seem to remember some HDs in the all-in-ones (5x00s or maybe the Bondi iMac) having a special hole drilled in the top, maybe to vent away heat? Anybody have any idea if the below HDs would work okay in a G3 iMac, or if they would run too hot? IBM Deskstar 20.5GB. Model IC35L020AVER07-0 IBM 22.0GB. Model DJNA-372200 Also, what about HDs pulled from Beige G3s. Would those work okay as far as not running too hot, or would I be better off staying away from those for other reasons (too old/slow, etc.?) Is there anything I need to look for specifically when replacing a hard drive in one of these all-in-one iMacs if none of the above will be suitable? You'd have a hard time finding an HD that WOULDN'T be appropriate. Either of those two models should work just fine. All HDs have a small vent hole to equalize pressure. None have a hole to vent heat. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: acceptable hard drives for G3 iMac?
Thanks, Clark. I just wanted to be sure, since I remember having overheating problems with some non-original-spec hard drives in the cramped 6100 case. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
On Mar 4, 9:19 pm, rtows...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/4/09 8:31:11 PM, wmhatch...@gmail.com writes: I have inherited a Beige G3 Minitower with 2 IDE hard drives, The issue is that boot ups are very slow almost like the machine is searching for a startup disk. The thing that you are not paying attention to is the fact that a Beige G3 normally takes quite a while to boot up. That machine is nowhere as quick on start up as the later machines of the G3 series, even if it has the 300MHz processor. All of the BW G3s booted faster than the Beige G3s and then Apple made the even faster G4s. Just do as I do when I boot up a Beige G3, go into the kitchen and get a cold soda from the refrigerator, pop some popcorn, check the mailbox, and then go back to my computer desk. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
On Mar 6, 2009, at 1:02 AM, ron wrote: I have inherited a Beige G3 Minitower with 2 IDE hard drives, The issue is that boot ups are very slow almost like the machine is searching for a startup disk. The thing that you are not paying attention to is the fact that a Beige G3 normally takes quite a while to boot up. One reason why I went to SCSI for boot and work drives on my last Beige G3 (I have had several) was poor disk performance. I had a Rev. 3C 300 MHz Beige MT, and this was all all tarted-out with a 533 MHz processor upgrade from OWC and a high-end SCSI controller from ATTO. Boot drive was a 36 GB UW-SCSI. Data drives were large to very large ATA drives (160 and 300 GB) which had been converted to UW-SCSI using ACARD's SCSIDE adapter cards. The Rev. C ROM was replaced by a Rev. A as I did not need extra ATA channels. (The Rev. C ROM was reused in a Beige DT). Two ATA optical drives were installed, one being a DVD burner, the other being a CD burner. That's a brute-force way of getting decent performance out of a Beige MT. BW G3 and even Gig-E G4s are so cheap these days, it would make no sense to duplicate that Beige G3 configuration, but it made sense at the time. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
ron wrote: On Mar 4, 9:19 pm, rtows...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/4/09 8:31:11 PM, wmhatch...@gmail.com writes: I have inherited a Beige G3 Minitower with 2 IDE hard drives, The issue is that boot ups are very slow almost like the machine is searching for a startup disk. The thing that you are not paying attention to is the fact that a Beige G3 normally takes quite a while to boot up. That machine is nowhere as quick on start up as the later machines of the G3 series, even if it has the 300MHz processor. All of the BW G3s booted faster than the Beige G3s and then Apple made the even faster G4s. Just do as I do when I boot up a Beige G3, go into the kitchen and get a cold soda from the refrigerator, pop some popcorn, check the mailbox, and then go back to my computer desk. Absolutely correct! Give that man a cigar!! My daughter texts her friends while waiting for my old Beige MT to boot. NBD Dan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
2 Monitors, a Radeon and an NVIDIA (was Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting)
Aaron writes, The Radeon 9200 will drive two monitors by itself! From the manufacturer's web site: Advanced Dual Display Support Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions and refresh rates Specifications ... Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution Multiple Display connections DVI-I port VGA port S-Video port DVI-I to VGA S-Video to Composite adaptors included Wow, really? Hmmm...OK, looks like I don't have all the right adapters then...but I should also admit, I'm hardly what anybody could call tech savvy when it comes to matters like this. Up until I opened the box containing the Radeon, I had never even seen a video card! When I ordered it (over the phone with a guy at OWC -- I called to confirm that it would work in a G4 Quicksilver 867 since the web page confused me -- and he took my order on the phone). But anyway, no adapters came with it, and no I didn't think to ask for any -- not tech savvy remember? I had ordered a couple of sticks of 512 MB RAM at the same time, and all that came in the box was the Radeon and the two RAM sticks. Anyhoo, just now (prior to answering this) -- since in the December computer area reorganization to fit the second monitor on my desk, the G4 tower got moved to an area where it's now even harder for me to look at its backside than it was before (so I can't even attempt to trace what's going out of the Radeon...or the NVIDIA for that matter), I went to ASP Graphics/Displays to see if I could figure out how it was hooked up. Result: yes, I see the Radeon running my primary monitor, a Gateway EV910 19, and for the first time, I actually notice that it COULD be running a second display -- it says: Display: Status: No display connected. But I have no idea from that what kind of adapter is running to the Gateway, or what I'd need to run into the secondary monitor (an ancient but functioning 15 NEC MultiSync XV15+). I still went to Google Image search in hopes of seeing the backside of a Radeon 9200. Couldn't find an image big enough for my aging eyes to be able to distinguish the ports, though, maybe just as well because I'm yet too ignorant to tell which is which.. OK, I'll give my BF a call tonight! Oh wait! OMG! NOW I remember why I had to wait till December to get the second monitor (the NEC) hooked up! I had suggested it in November, his previous visit. We brought the NEC into the bedroom where my computer desk is, but he looked at it and behind the G4, then we looked through that Unidentified Computer Stuff bottom drawer of my filing cabinet and he said I was going to need another video card, because I didn't have the right kind of adapter to connect the Radeon to the second monitor. I said I still had my old NVIDIA and went to get it, but it wasn't where I thought I'd put it, and 20 minutes of looking, it didn't turn up. Naturally, I found it the day AFTER he went home! Anyway, since he hooked everything up, if I refresh his memory (you couldn't make the Radeon drive both monitors because I was missing an adapter -- so what kind am I missing? -- he'll be able to tell me what it was, and if he doesn't have one at home (he always brings stuff like that if he has it, and most of the time, he has it, whatever it is!), I could post a WTB on the Swap List to get one. WOW. Thank you, Aaron! :-) ~Yersinia. Mycelium is yourcelium. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 2 Monitors, a Radeon and an NVIDIA (was Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting)
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Yersinia yersi...@cybernex.net wrote: Aaron writes, The Radeon 9200 will drive two monitors by itself! From the manufacturer's web site: Advanced Dual Display Support Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions and refresh rates Specifications ... Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution Multiple Display connections DVI-I port VGA port S-Video port DVI-I to VGA S-Video to Composite adaptors included Wow, really? Hmmm...OK, looks like I don't have all the right adapters ___ A web search or wiki search should turn up diagrams for all sorts of video connectors. No need to be tech savvy just willing to look on the web for the info. The shape, size and pin count will help ID what you need. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
I have inherited a Beige G3 Minitower with 2 IDE hard drives, one is ~20 Gb while the other is ~30 Gb. On one is MacOS 9.2 while on the other is MacOS 8.6. The issue is that boot ups are very slow almost like the machine is searching for a startup disk. The system is maxed out insofar as installed RAM is concerned and both HDs have been thoroughly diagnosed and optimized using Disk Warrior and other disk utilities. Each drive is connected separately to one of the two IDE plugs on the motherboard. One shares this with the CD-ROM drive while the other doesn't share via its IDE cable. Is this the correct configuration for two IDE drives? Just wondering what is causing such intolerably slow (up to 1 minute or more) boot ups when the start up disk has been specifically selected under control panels. The slow start up happens no matter whether it is the OS 8.6 or the 9.2 system disk which is selected. I do have a Rev. B card in the machine if that's an issue which I don't think it should be. Thanks for all help! Will I Am --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Will_i_am wrote: Each drive is connected separately to one of the two IDE plugs on the motherboard. One shares this with the CD-ROM drive while the other doesn't share via its IDE cable. Is this the correct configuration for two IDE drives? Just wondering what is causing such intolerably slow (up to 1 minute or more) boot ups when the start up disk has been specifically selected under control panels. One doesn't normally place hard drives on the optical bus, although the two Beige G3 buses are identical. I used to manufacture a special dual drive HD bus cables (Apple never did). The lengths are rather special in order to avoid interference between the two drives. The dual drive HD bus cable for the DT is quite different, and seemingly violates the length restrictions for IDE buses. My cables were designed for and were tested at 33 MB/sec, although these are only operated at 16.67 MB/sec in a Beige G3. On my production machines, I never encountered any slow-down problems as long as HDs were restricted to the HD bus and opticals and Zips were restricted to the optical/Zip bus. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
It appears the interface in my FireWire enclosure is in fact dead. I've ordered a replacement case. But now, due to the good advices of Clark, Kris and the others on this board, I can do so in the knowledge that I actually need it and aren't just wasting my money. My thanks to all of you. On Mar 2, 6:29 pm, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net wrote: tonycd wrote: Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive by swapping out each element with other devices. The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure automatically irreparable? Pretty much. Assuming it has an external power supply, that would be something to check. Otherwise the fault is in the FW / IDE interface board inside the enclosure and there is likely nothing there to fix. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G3 Beige MT with Two IDE Hard Drives
In a message dated 3/4/09 8:31:11 PM, wmhatch...@gmail.com writes: I have inherited a Beige G3 Minitower with 2 IDE hard drives, one is ~20 Gb while the other is ~30 Gb. On one is MacOS 9.2 while on the other is MacOS 8.6. The issue is that boot ups are very slow almost like the machine is searching for a startup disk. The system is maxed out insofar as installed RAM is concerned.. snip May be caused by the startup ram check max ram (768 meg). There is a keyboard command that is pressed before opening the control panels that will turn off the startup mem check. Boot up, press hold option+command (Apple), go to Apple menu, control panels = memory. When the mem ctrl pnl opens it will now show an option/checkbox for turning off the memory startup check. Reboot see if it isn't faster on startup. To turn it on again repeat the same steps (cmd+opt) before selecting control panels. ** Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesamp;ncid=emlcntusyelp0005) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
At 18:35 -0500 2009/03/02, Yersinia wrote: Removing the NVIDIA would mean not being able to use the second monitor anymore! No! See below! I had originally asked him to remove the NVIDIA last year (Feb 2008) because I had bought a Radeon 9200 which I thought would be better, so he took the NVIDIA out and installed the Radeonit only made a marginal difference, but I kept it in there anyway, didn't bother him to switch back. Later on in the year I realized I actually had a good reason to have 2 monitors on the G4 (an idea I actually got from him -- when I visited him in the summer, I saw he had *3* monitors on HIS G4, but it took me awhile to figure out why I'D want more than the one I had!). But, for me to have 2 monitors, I had to have 2 video cards -- so I kept the Radeon where it was and asked him to put the NVIDIA in another slot and hook the second monitor up. He did, and I love having the two monitors. The Radeon 9200 will drive two monitors by itself! From the manufacturer's web site: Advanced Dual Display Support Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions and refresh rates Specifications ... Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution Multiple Display connections DVI-I port VGA port S-Video port DVI-I to VGA S-Video to Composite adaptors included - Aaron --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
At 18:11 -0800 2009/03/01, tonycd wrote: As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence. But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.) - (I'm not sure if pdisk is incluced in the standard OS X installation or if it requires the xtools package, so this may possibly not work for you.) Open the Terminal and type 'sudo pdisk'. Then, after entering your administrator password, type 'L' (Without the quotes, of course!) as the top-level command. It will give you the size and locations of all partitions on all your disks that are recognized by the system that are partition with the Apple Partition Map, which yours probably are. SInce it only has to read a tiny portion of the beginning of the disk, it will not be affected by the 128GB limit. The names of the partitions may not be the same as their current names in the Finder, but if you know the approxiamate sizes of the various volumes, you can probably figure out which is which. BTW, although pdisk can be a dangerous utility if you use it to alter a disk by editing and writing to it, just looking at what's already there can't do any harm. - Aaron --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
After thinking about what I wrote, I believe that you can get the same information with Disk Utility. The volumes are listed in the left-hand column in their order on the disk. If a volume's directory is within the 128GB limit, it should show up as mounted, even though reads and writes to part of the volume may fail (silently??). If a volume's directory is beyond the 128GB limit, it should show up, but as unmountable, since its directory will not be readable. - Aaron Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:31:04 -0800 To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com From: Aaron aa...@macuser.fastmail.fm Subject: Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting At 18:11 -0800 2009/03/01, tonycd wrote: As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence. But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.) - (I'm not sure if pdisk is incluced in the standard OS X installation or if it requires the xtools package, so this may possibly not work for you.) Open the Terminal and type 'sudo pdisk'. Then, after entering your administrator password, type 'L' (Without the quotes, of course!) as the top-level command. It will give you the size and locations of all partitions on all your disks that are recognized by the system that are partition with the Apple Partition Map, which yours probably are. SInce it only has to read a tiny portion of the beginning of the disk, it will not be affected by the 128GB limit. The names of the partitions may not be the same as their current names in the Finder, but if you know the approxiamate sizes of the various volumes, you can probably figure out which is which. BTW, although pdisk can be a dangerous utility if you use it to alter a disk by editing and writing to it, just looking at what's already there can't do any harm. - Aaron --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
