Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
What will these companies do anyway, sue? Let 'em! You can't get blood from turnips, and whenever ethical concerns arise I invariably choose the people over the company. If a beggar is starving, is it wrong for him to steal a loaf of bread or two from a rich man? No--it's wrong for the rich man not to help the beggar, and he pays for his apathy. I wouldn't worry about getting sued though--how many ST games have been made for the blind? Well, PCS made one, then GMA, and finally USA. That's three games, two of which were sold--and they are absolutely loaded with sound effects. The big companies know that it would be more of a waste of time to sue these very small-time game companies than it would be to produce accessible games themselves (not that it would be all that difficult.) That's why I say if there's a game you want, talk to the companies that produce similar sighted games. If they won't give you the time of day, make the game and relax. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Coming soon, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to get a massage--no staring, just caring. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Liam, and all, What we are discussing here has some deep ethical concerns I don't think we can solve. On One hand you have the die-hard SW fans on here that would do anything for an accessible SW game. On the other hand you have the major companies with the licenses saying no way buddy show us the big cash. You then end up with a no win situation. Che is correct there are plenty of original ideas that can be used. From what I know of Che he likes new and original things as rather to others ideas. That is great, and originality is a wonderful thing. However, not everyone shares that, and wishes to enter some of the fantacies, stories, and tv shows others have created before. Just walking through aspce station killing aliens might be enough for some people. Add a light saber, force powers, and a bunch of storm troopers and the SW fans will go mad for it. That is just how a really good story works. Look at Harry Potter as an example. When the last book came out there were people waiting in the parking lot for hours waiting for the stores to open there doors so they could buy the new Harry Potter book. That is the hold it has on people. Yes, using sounds trade marks, etc is probably steeling. Steeling is wrong, but that leaves us with the ethical situation of walking away from the thing we want most in life. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 1/13/2007 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Damien, Just because a sound is free to download doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted material. An example of this is the Star Trek and Star Wars sounds. Most of the sounds I have I found and downloaded from personal libraries on the web. Problem is I got them for free, but Paramount and Lucasfilm still hold the copyrights for those sounds. Some sounds like explosions, gun shots, are not really copyrighted unles there is something specific or special about it. x-sight interactive wrote: if the sounds were originally free for download then usually they have no copyright. at least i think that's the case. regards damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Damien, Yes, writing games for yourself is always a possability. What you don't share can't get you in trouble. However, if you spend months or years working on it I see it as a shame that noone else gets a crack at it which kind of defeats the purpose of it. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Charles, Exactly. Very few of those on this list who were blind from birth had a chanse to play Asteroids, Montezuma's Revenge, Mysteries of the Sith, and so on. Writing even one of these games is new ground for most folks. Charles Rivard wrote: For those who have never played a certain game or type of game, you are breaking new ground. Think of it this way: If you have lived in a city, let's say San Francisco, for 40 years or so, and what is available to site seers is nothing to you anymore, and a friend who has never been to San Francisco comes to visit for a few weeks, do you not take your friend across the Golden Gate bridge or take him or her aboard a trolley or to Peer 39 or Fisherman's wharf or Alkatraz or Chinatown? After all, you've seen it all ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Michael, The sword of Damoclese. is a wonderful expression of what us game developers face. Everyone and his uncle seams to want a Herry Potter game, a Star Wars game, this or that Star Trek game, and as a developer I have the skills but a dangerous position to proceed with it. I do think a Star Wars game would or could be quite lucretive, but I have chosen to proceeed with freeware to avoid copyright issues with the clame you sould this without our permission. michael feir wrote: Kind of makes me think of that sword of Damoclese. He was the king of his land but had a sword hung above his head on a thin thread. Due to the accessability moral argument and the low likelyhood of people smelling a fortune to be made from going after game developers, I think our thread might have some thickness to it. While I certainly appreciate the efforts of people who have the skills and fortitude to sit on the throne, I don't think I'll ever choose to put myself in that position. I certainly wouldn't want to turn away from the chance to play true arcade games in accessible form. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Johnny, Yes, if they sick the lawyers down on you there isn't much a one man company can do about it except retract your free product and remove it. Usually, a sease and desist letter would be enough to remove the offensive material unless said person or company has the time and money to battle it to the supreme court. That said similar works of art can be done if it is done carefully and has enough difference to be more original. Taking Shades of Doom as my example while Doom took place in a lab the monsters were much different. I remember fighting monsters, demons, and such things that is not in SOD. SOD is in a lab, but has mutants, cyborgs, and other things which sets it apart from Doom. SOD is doom-like, but not really doom. johnny tai wrote: I am not quite sure how easy that would avoid a company's troop of lawyers if they really want to take you down. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
also, wouldn't being able to tell your sighted friends if you had any that you have a star wars game similar to theirs and you beat this level or that level give you something more in common with them? Josh - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Liam, and all, What we are discussing here has some deep ethical concerns I don't think we can solve. On One hand you have the die-hard SW fans on here that would do anything for an accessible SW game. On the other hand you have the major companies with the licenses saying no way buddy show us the big cash. You then end up with a no win situation. Che is correct there are plenty of original ideas that can be used. From what I know of Che he likes new and original things as rather to others ideas. That is great, and originality is a wonderful thing. However, not everyone shares that, and wishes to enter some of the fantacies, stories, and tv shows others have created before. Just walking through aspce station killing aliens might be enough for some people. Add a light saber, force powers, and a bunch of storm troopers and the SW fans will go mad for it. That is just how a really good story works. Look at Harry Potter as an example. When the last book came out there were people waiting in the parking lot for hours waiting for the stores to open there doors so they could buy the new Harry Potter book. That is the hold it has on people. Yes, using sounds trade marks, etc is probably steeling. Steeling is wrong, but that leaves us with the ethical situation of walking away from the thing we want most in life. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
yeah me too. In fact, yes...I really do think it would be best for me to move on to another game, dungeon siege perhaps? or lord of the rings, war of the ring-type rpg game? Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds I hear ya man. I wish you all the luck in the world with the Star Wars stuff, and I'll be one of the many Star Wars fans downloading it for sure. Later, Che - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
then why not get software, rip the sounds out, and make the games? you'll probably have to make them freeware though. Josh - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Michael, I to am a classic arcade nut. I was a very happy child blasting away in asteroids, centipede, packman, Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, etc however I had enough sight to get in to some of the later PC games as well. Back in 1982 or so one of my favorite arcade games was Star Wars Empire Strikes Back, ESB, and I spent countless hours flying my speader around shooting AT walkers, and so on. You can count on me wanting to redo that game in accessible format. However, according to this thread using SW logos and sounds is wrong. That puts me in between a rock and a hard place A game I enjoyed can't be braught to bare do to copyrights. I think the same copyrights that governs ESB apply to packman, Montezuma's Revenge, and in the end if we always play by the rule books the accesible game community will have to totally rethink our strategy. I was fortunate to live with sight long enough to get in to the PC games and being a SW fan many of them I purchased were of the Star Wars titles. I really hate owning copies of games I can no longer play. I'd love to wrip the sounds out and recreate the game with an accessible design. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
but then if you take it down, or if they tell you to take it down, couldn't you distribute it privately on cd through email requests? Josh - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Shaun, Yeah, it started off I got the run around trying to find the right department head to talk to. I emailed several with no responce, and when I did finally get any responce I was quoted what seamed like acanned message about Lucas Arts holding all legal rights to Star Wars games, and that to produce a game I'd have to pay upfront royalty fees, and so on. Basically, they wanted more than I can afford, and as soon as they figured I am a one man show with little money to be earned off of my ideas, I basically was blown off as a fly on a giants butt. In short if you are going to approach Paramount or Lucas you need to have a multimillion dollar idea like producing toys, games, etc that they can suck up a huge percentage of the proffets. Otherwise get lost. Everyone in the accessible games business knows there is no gold mine, and what little money you made off of your Star wars or Trek idea would be gobbled up by the copyright holders leaving you with zip. If you want to release it give it away for free. Worst they can do is say take it down. shaun everiss wrote: I forgot what happened when tom asked for the things. Tom do you remember what happened with that, I know there was and still is licencing issues around the games. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
you don't have to make an accessible version of millionaire. There already is one. It was made by flint freedom. of freedom games. Josh - Original Message - From: x-sight interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds what i'm currently doing is making an accessible version of millionaire, but me and steve both had a discussion offlist and we both decided that it might be better to do one just for our own personal use, as celadore or eidos aren't going to allow such measures as the format is so big nowadays. so maybe if someone who could develop wanted a complete accessible remake of a game they could do it for themselves, but then there lies the question that, ok, it's out there, why aren't we getting a go at it. it's a really sticky situation for all of us. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
oh, and also an accessible deal or no deal game. Josh - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds well there is freedom millionaire guys. At 08:37 p.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: what i'm currently doing is making an accessible version of millionaire, but me and steve both had a discussion offlist and we both decided that it might be better to do one just for our own personal use, as celadore or eidos aren't going to allow such measures as the format is so big nowadays. so maybe if someone who could develop wanted a complete accessible remake of a game they could do it for themselves, but then there lies the question that, ok, it's out there, why aren't we getting a go at it. it's a really sticky situation for all of us. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi, I emailed the people who make playstation asking for accessible and to keep it short, they said flat out no! Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
and there is freedom wheel of fortune. Now what I'd also like to see is accessible jeopardy and accessible price is right games. Josh - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds well there is freedom millionaire guys. At 08:37 p.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: what i'm currently doing is making an accessible version of millionaire, but me and steve both had a discussion offlist and we both decided that it might be better to do one just for our own personal use, as celadore or eidos aren't going to allow such measures as the format is so big nowadays. so maybe if someone who could develop wanted a complete accessible remake of a game they could do it for themselves, but then there lies the question that, ok, it's out there, why aren't we getting a go at it. it's a really sticky situation for all of us. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Josh, It might. Most sighties would probably think it was cool even if they couldn't play it themselves. Josh wrote: also, wouldn't being able to tell your sighted friends if you had any that you have a star wars game similar to theirs and you beat this level or that level give you something more in common with them? Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Josh, Well, perhaps, but you would have to be very careful about it. Once a person is served with a sease and desist letter continuing to distribute a product could result in further legal action. However, I don't they can really stop it circulating as say 100 people download it those 100 have it and can share amung others. Josh wrote: but then if you take it down, or if they tell you to take it down, couldn't you distribute it privately on cd through email requests? Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Josh, I have thought about it, but I don't have dragon unpack to wrip the sounds, and I'd have to locate my Star Wars disks. I know where Mysteries of the Sith is as I found it in a stack of stuff while looking for something else. Jedi Knight, Dark Forces, etc I haven't a clue where the disks are. The other major reason is it is allot of pay for little return. I'd really have to think it over before outright cloning someone elses work. Josh wrote: then why not get software, rip the sounds out, and make the games? you'll probably have to make them freeware though. Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Ken, I think the problem we face is that companies don't look at people, and only seak the dollar signs before their eyes. We aren't much of a market to make them think twice about us. I mean even now most of the sighted games I have played for PC, PS2, Xbox, aare far above and beyond what the accessible games market is use to. They have the financial backing to really go all the way. In the Star Trek games for the PC such as Final Unity and elite Force they paid the actual actors to do the voice overs for the game. None of us can come close. In some of the Lucas Arts games they hired people to stand in for the parts like Mara Jade, and so on, but most of us don't have pro actors and actresses at our disposal to do that sort of thing. I do see Josh's desire to use the sounds etc as that is really the only way we can make our games have the same quality of sound as the pro games. If we are talking brands like Star Trek, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, if you don't have the actual voices and effects any clone is pretty much junk, and just isn't the same. Ken the Crazy wrote: What will these companies do anyway, sue? Let 'em! You can't get blood from turnips, and whenever ethical concerns arise I invariably choose the people over the company. If a beggar is starving, is it wrong for him to steal a loaf of bread or two from a rich man? No--it's wrong for the rich man not to help the beggar, and he pays for his apathy. I wouldn't worry about getting sued though--how many ST games have been made for the blind? Well, PCS made one, then GMA, and finally USA. That's three games, two of which were sold--and they are absolutely loaded with sound effects. The big companies know that it would be more of a waste of time to sue these very small-time game companies than it would be to produce accessible games themselves (not that it would be all that difficult.) That's why I say if there's a game you want, talk to the companies that produce similar sighted games. If they won't give you the time of day, make the game and relax. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Michael, That was an excelant post. I do agree that when a game imitates another game the dev should take care as to make it as well as they can to do many of the things the sighted games do. There are differences though like in Montezuma's Revenge I can not totally clearly remember the exact layouts of all the temples. That doesn't mean though that the game play will be much different in and that in other regards it is the same game. As for Star Trek games I played Final Unity, Borg, and others and those were really cool Star Trek games. I'd love to create one of that quality someday. STFC was just a trial run, an experimental game, nothing more, nothing less. michael feir wrote: That would depend on whether the game you're playing is anything like the ones they are. If a game is merely a Star Wars game due to using sounds from that franchise but is totally different from anything sighted people are playing, then you don't really have anything substantial to work with. If serious effort is made to make storm troopers behave like those in the movies, or to take into account the physics of ships as described by whatever central technical information exists to determine all that, then you have more to talk about meaningfully. Sighted people could play something like Pong or Topspeed2 or Sonic Invaders and compare it meaningfully to the games they've played. I don't get a sense of playing an actual Star Trek game when I play Tom's Final Conflict game. The sounds and such just aren't enough for me to set aside what I regard as true Star Trek gamedom. The combat is just too capricious with ships being destroyed instantaneously. Listening to the shows, combat seems a lot more serebral than that. There's at least time to take evasive action, try to reinforce threatened assets, etc. I can wipe out a starbase with one ship's fire power and that just doesn't strike me as very correct. If you play something like Star Trek, A Final Unity as I was able to with my father's help way back in my high school days, that game could honestly be called a Star Trek game. They had the actual actors from TNG doing the voices. The story and dialogue were excellent and so were the sound effects. The game play truly put you in mind of the shows and did honour to the concept of Star Trek. Even the strictly combat games like Star Fleet Command were done in such a way that you felt that the gameplay better reflected the kind of thoughts captains had to make while fighting battles. That kind of consideration is one reason why people can be so protective of their franchises. They honestly don't want their vision to be degraded by people who don't have a proper sense of what it is and a proper respect for it. Nintendo did a masterful job of quality control using such protective measures and did a lot to revive the video game industry after the crash in the mid eighties. One of the problems back then were that everybody was trying to get money from video games and were making poor immitations of original games. The market was flooded with inferrior quality games and people were turned off. We're certainly in no danger of a crash now. If anything, we face the reverse problem where there aren't enough different titles and genres covered well to pull in more gamers. I think time and effort from developers will eventually fix that and is doing that already slowly. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
I could give you dragon unpack if you want it. Josh - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Josh, I have thought about it, but I don't have dragon unpack to wrip the sounds, and I'd have to locate my Star Wars disks. I know where Mysteries of the Sith is as I found it in a stack of stuff while looking for something else. Jedi Knight, Dark Forces, etc I haven't a clue where the disks are. The other major reason is it is allot of pay for little return. I'd really have to think it over before outright cloning someone elses work. Josh wrote: then why not get software, rip the sounds out, and make the games? you'll probably have to make them freeware though. Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Not sure if I suggested this before, but if you cannot remember the layout of a level, you can always look at www.gamefaqs.com They have full walkthroughs for most games. Also you could listen to speedruns of the game and ask a sighted person to describe something in the level. - For an amazing video gaming site containing original soundtracks, game art, etc, go here. http://gh.ffshrine.org?r=16426 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Michael, That was an excelant post. I do agree that when a game imitates another game the dev should take care as to make it as well as they can to do many of the things the sighted games do. There are differences though like in Montezuma's Revenge I can not totally clearly remember the exact layouts of all the temples. That doesn't mean though that the game play will be much different in and that in other regards it is the same game. As for Star Trek games I played Final Unity, Borg, and others and those were really cool Star Trek games. I'd love to create one of that quality someday. STFC was just a trial run, an experimental game, nothing more, nothing less. michael feir wrote: That would depend on whether the game you're playing is anything like the ones they are. If a game is merely a Star Wars game due to using sounds from that franchise but is totally different from anything sighted people are playing, then you don't really have anything substantial to work with. If serious effort is made to make storm troopers behave like those in the movies, or to take into account the physics of ships as described by whatever central technical information exists to determine all that, then you have more to talk about meaningfully. Sighted people could play something like Pong or Topspeed2 or Sonic Invaders and compare it meaningfully to the games they've played. I don't get a sense of playing an actual Star Trek game when I play Tom's Final Conflict game. The sounds and such just aren't enough for me to set aside what I regard as true Star Trek gamedom. The combat is just too capricious with ships being destroyed instantaneously. Listening to the shows, combat seems a lot more serebral than that. There's at least time to take evasive action, try to reinforce threatened assets, etc. I can wipe out a starbase with one ship's fire power and that just doesn't strike me as very correct. If you play something like Star Trek, A Final Unity as I was able to with my father's help way back in my high school days, that game could honestly be called a Star Trek game. They had the actual actors from TNG doing the voices. The story and dialogue were excellent and so were the sound effects. The game play truly put you in mind of the shows and did honour to the concept of Star Trek. Even the strictly combat games like Star Fleet Command were done in such a way that you felt that the gameplay better reflected the kind of thoughts captains had to make while fighting battles. That kind of consideration is one reason why people can be so protective of their franchises. They honestly don't want their vision to be degraded by people who don't have a proper sense of what it is and a proper respect for it. Nintendo did a masterful job of quality control using such protective measures and did a lot to revive the video game industry after the crash in the mid eighties. One of the problems back then were that everybody was trying to get money from video games and were making poor immitations of original games. The market was flooded with inferrior quality games and people were turned off. We're certainly in no danger of a crash now. If anything, we face the reverse problem where there aren't enough different titles and genres covered well to pull in more gamers. I think time and effort from developers will eventually fix that and is doing that already slowly. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
maybe when audio game maker comes out you can take advantage of it and make such detailed trek games then? Josh - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Michael, That was an excelant post. I do agree that when a game imitates another game the dev should take care as to make it as well as they can to do many of the things the sighted games do. There are differences though like in Montezuma's Revenge I can not totally clearly remember the exact layouts of all the temples. That doesn't mean though that the game play will be much different in and that in other regards it is the same game. As for Star Trek games I played Final Unity, Borg, and others and those were really cool Star Trek games. I'd love to create one of that quality someday. STFC was just a trial run, an experimental game, nothing more, nothing less. michael feir wrote: That would depend on whether the game you're playing is anything like the ones they are. If a game is merely a Star Wars game due to using sounds from that franchise but is totally different from anything sighted people are playing, then you don't really have anything substantial to work with. If serious effort is made to make storm troopers behave like those in the movies, or to take into account the physics of ships as described by whatever central technical information exists to determine all that, then you have more to talk about meaningfully. Sighted people could play something like Pong or Topspeed2 or Sonic Invaders and compare it meaningfully to the games they've played. I don't get a sense of playing an actual Star Trek game when I play Tom's Final Conflict game. The sounds and such just aren't enough for me to set aside what I regard as true Star Trek gamedom. The combat is just too capricious with ships being destroyed instantaneously. Listening to the shows, combat seems a lot more serebral than that. There's at least time to take evasive action, try to reinforce threatened assets, etc. I can wipe out a starbase with one ship's fire power and that just doesn't strike me as very correct. If you play something like Star Trek, A Final Unity as I was able to with my father's help way back in my high school days, that game could honestly be called a Star Trek game. They had the actual actors from TNG doing the voices. The story and dialogue were excellent and so were the sound effects. The game play truly put you in mind of the shows and did honour to the concept of Star Trek. Even the strictly combat games like Star Fleet Command were done in such a way that you felt that the gameplay better reflected the kind of thoughts captains had to make while fighting battles. That kind of consideration is one reason why people can be so protective of their franchises. They honestly don't want their vision to be degraded by people who don't have a proper sense of what it is and a proper respect for it. Nintendo did a masterful job of quality control using such protective measures and did a lot to revive the video game industry after the crash in the mid eighties. One of the problems back then were that everybody was trying to get money from video games and were making poor immitations of original games. The market was flooded with inferrior quality games and people were turned off. We're certainly in no danger of a crash now. If anything, we face the reverse problem where there aren't enough different titles and genres covered well to pull in more gamers. I think time and effort from developers will eventually fix that and is doing that already slowly. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Earlier, Liam wrote: does anyone want to think about how totally illegal this is? Of course not. I'm starting to get annoyed. end quote I am with Liam here. I don't think ripping off other companies copyrighted material is something that should even be discussed here, as far as how to do it, or how the material could be implemented. There are plenty of good game ideas that can be implemented without resorting to using someone elses hard work as a shortcut to quality. Is illegal activity really something we want on this list? I for one don't think so. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
yes. if i want to use someone else's sounds, for whatever reason, i ask them first. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Earlier, Liam wrote: does anyone want to think about how totally illegal this is? Of course not. I'm starting to get annoyed. end quote I am with Liam here. I don't think ripping off other companies copyrighted material is something that should even be discussed here, as far as how to do it, or how the material could be implemented. There are plenty of good game ideas that can be implemented without resorting to using someone elses hard work as a shortcut to quality. Is illegal activity really something we want on this list? I for one don't think so. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
but would paramount and Lucas arts give permission to use their sounds in games that only blind people would be playing? Or would they still want a ton of money that most of us don't have for licenses and such? Josh - Original Message - From: x-sight interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds yes. if i want to use someone else's sounds, for whatever reason, i ask them first. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Earlier, Liam wrote: does anyone want to think about how totally illegal this is? Of course not. I'm starting to get annoyed. end quote I am with Liam here. I don't think ripping off other companies copyrighted material is something that should even be discussed here, as far as how to do it, or how the material could be implemented. There are plenty of good game ideas that can be implemented without resorting to using someone elses hard work as a shortcut to quality. Is illegal activity really something we want on this list? I for one don't think so. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
yes I'd like to know about that too. Trek2000 and the star trek game for DOS used copyrighted sounds. Like I said, if anyone still wants any of the sounds I have just email me privately and we can arrange something privately. But I won't be shareing sounds if it's going to get me into trouble, I'll just keep them on my own machine and use them for my own personal game-creation. - Original Message - From: johnny tai [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? Just curious, not arguing. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:35 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Earlier, Liam wrote: does anyone want to think about how totally illegal this is? Of course not. I'm starting to get annoyed. end quote I am with Liam here. I don't think ripping off other companies copyrighted material is something that should even be discussed here, as far as how to do it, or how the material could be implemented. There are plenty of good game ideas that can be implemented without resorting to using someone elses hard work as a shortcut to quality. Is illegal activity really something we want on this list? I for one don't think so. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
There is a need for games of a particular theme if no such game currently exists for the blind gamer. There are tons of racing games on the market, but how many can be played with no sighted existence? Hance, the need for one or more that can be. I anxiously await USA Raceway. If the major game manufacturers aren't interested, fine. Thom could use the money, couldn't he? As long as it's legal, I think he should go for it. - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Charles, I think you missed my point entirely. USA Raceway doesn't fall under the category I was referring to at all. There is currently only one decent racing game available for the blind gamer, Top Speed 2, and it leaves a lot to be desired for the true racing fan. I'm all for USA Raceway, I was referring to using copyrighted material or releasing yet another shooter or side scroller. It has just been done to death, and offers nothing new of any substance for the blind gamer that we haven't seen before. Again, if developers want to make this stuff, that's cool, I just prefer to use the extreme amount of effort involved in game development creating something we haven't had before. I'm sure that USA Raceway will bring things to the table we haven't experienced in the racing genre, just as Rail Racer will. As I said before, my hat is off to any accessible game developer, it is a lot of hard work for not much return, I would just like to see the effort put into creating something as unique as possible. But just like my belly button, that opinion is just mine. And keep your hands off my belly button, you weirdo. Grin, Che Developer - Blind Adrenaline Simulations - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds There is a need for games of a particular theme if no such game currently exists for the blind gamer. There are tons of racing games on the market, but how many can be played with no sighted existence? Hance, the need for one or more that can be. I anxiously await USA Raceway. If the major game manufacturers aren't interested, fine. Thom could use the money, couldn't he? As long as it's legal, I think he should go for it. - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
While I definitely second Che's motion for originality, I also want to experience the classic arcade action sighted people have. I can't wait for Monty and hope that more sidescrollers come out which take the genre a heeping lot closer to its actual limit. I would be extremely disappointed if all we ended up with in sidescrollers was Superliam. I regard that game as a good introduction to the game type but think it comes nowhere near where sighted people have gone with sidescrollers. I figured there was pretty much no chance at all that yet another Space Invaders game could possibly impress me. However, I give Liam top marks for Judgement Day. Unlike Superliam, he's made a game which truly gives us an original and rich take on the style. We should have seen sidescrollers explored to their full extent long before we were treeted to Shades of Doom. There's room for both old and new styles of game. If you're doing an accessible version of a classic game, stay true to its form so arcade wannabes like myself can catch up on fun we only experienced vicariously. I'll cherish accessible versions of Asteroids and Monty when we eventually see them. If you're not going in that direction, then I would hope that the games you produce can stand on their own merrits without relying on some big entertainment brand. I'm painfully discovering that I'm not cut out for programming. That leaves all my creativity locked up or written out as design documents unless somebody comes along and needs an original idea. I offer my early creation Space Miners as an example of what I'm talking about. I created a fairly standard universe. All of the descriptions and such were my own work from scratch. There are certainly many similar games in the sighted world. Examples of space combat and trading games go right back to something like 1978 or something. Each of them has some sort of different twist to it making the experience unique. There's plenty of room in the blind gaming universe for almost all styles of game. So many haven't even been tackled seriously. Qbert and Digdug are two examples of classics I'd dearly love to play. An epic adventure rpg with a full party to control along the lines of Bard's Tale or Ultima would be quite a slice of heaven as well. It's extremely hard if not impossible to come up with a truly fully original game outside of any genre. However, just like with fantasy or science fiction novels, there's tremendous room for different takes on these things. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Charles, I think you missed my point entirely. USA Raceway doesn't fall under the category I was referring to at all. There is currently only one decent racing game available for the blind gamer, Top Speed 2, and it leaves a lot to be desired for the true racing fan. I'm all for USA Raceway, I was referring to using copyrighted material or releasing yet another shooter or side scroller. It has just been done to death, and offers nothing new of any substance for the blind gamer that we haven't seen before. Again, if developers want to make this stuff, that's cool, I just prefer to use the extreme amount of effort involved in game development creating something we haven't had before. I'm sure that USA Raceway will bring things to the table we haven't experienced in the racing genre, just as Rail Racer will. As I said before, my hat is off to any accessible game developer, it is a lot of hard work for not much return, I would just like to see the effort put into creating something as unique as possible. But just like my belly button, that opinion is just mine. And keep your hands off my belly button, you weirdo. Grin, Che Developer - Blind Adrenaline Simulations - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds There is a need for games of a particular theme if no such game currently exists for the blind gamer. There are tons of racing games on the market, but how many can be played with no sighted existence? Hance, the need for one or more that can be. I anxiously await USA Raceway. If the major game manufacturers aren't interested, fine. Thom could use the money, couldn't he? As long as it's legal, I think he should go for it. - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
this brings up an interesting thing. Is there a book or something maybe a tutorial about designing your own sfx. At 08:34 a.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: Earlier, Liam wrote: does anyone want to think about how totally illegal this is? Of course not. I'm starting to get annoyed. end quote I am with Liam here. I don't think ripping off other companies copyrighted material is something that should even be discussed here, as far as how to do it, or how the material could be implemented. There are plenty of good game ideas that can be implemented without resorting to using someone elses hard work as a shortcut to quality. Is illegal activity really something we want on this list? I for one don't think so. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Josh, From my dealings with Lucasfilm the answer is no. They want Royalties which neither you or I am willing or able to pay. Cheers. Josh wrote: but would paramount and Lucas arts give permission to use their sounds in games that only blind people would be playing? Or would they still want a ton of money that most of us don't have for licenses and such? ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Che, Liam, and all, What we are discussing here has some deep ethical concerns I don't think we can solve. On One hand you have the die-hard SW fans on here that would do anything for an accessible SW game. On the other hand you have the major companies with the licenses saying no way buddy show us the big cash. You then end up with a no win situation. Che is correct there are plenty of original ideas that can be used. From what I know of Che he likes new and original things as rather to others ideas. That is great, and originality is a wonderful thing. However, not everyone shares that, and wishes to enter some of the fantacies, stories, and tv shows others have created before. Just walking through aspce station killing aliens might be enough for some people. Add a light saber, force powers, and a bunch of storm troopers and the SW fans will go mad for it. That is just how a really good story works. Look at Harry Potter as an example. When the last book came out there were people waiting in the parking lot for hours waiting for the stores to open there doors so they could buy the new Harry Potter book. That is the hold it has on people. Yes, using sounds trade marks, etc is probably steeling. Steeling is wrong, but that leaves us with the ethical situation of walking away from the thing we want most in life. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
I have a few low quality sfx. As well in my collection thanks to a friend on here, I have a load of sound ideas stuff. Myself I havedesaster sfx and something called imporio sound off. Actually I don't have all these sfx loaded on my external hdd so I really should install these. At 04:29 p.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
I hear ya man. I wish you all the luck in the world with the Star Wars stuff, and I'll be one of the many Star Wars fans downloading it for sure. Later, Che - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Shaun, Yeah, it started off I got the run around trying to find the right department head to talk to. I emailed several with no responce, and when I did finally get any responce I was quoted what seamed like acanned message about Lucas Arts holding all legal rights to Star Wars games, and that to produce a game I'd have to pay upfront royalty fees, and so on. Basically, they wanted more than I can afford, and as soon as they figured I am a one man show with little money to be earned off of my ideas, I basically was blown off as a fly on a giants butt. In short if you are going to approach Paramount or Lucas you need to have a multimillion dollar idea like producing toys, games, etc that they can suck up a huge percentage of the proffets. Otherwise get lost. Everyone in the accessible games business knows there is no gold mine, and what little money you made off of your Star wars or Trek idea would be gobbled up by the copyright holders leaving you with zip. If you want to release it give it away for free. Worst they can do is say take it down. shaun everiss wrote: I forgot what happened when tom asked for the things. Tom do you remember what happened with that, I know there was and still is licencing issues around the games. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Johnny, Well, it is possible a community as small as ours has simply gone unnoticed by companies like Paramount, or they don't think we are worth there time. Either way David Greenwood has never indicated having any problems with Trek 2000 and I have never heard any complaints about STFC. Copyright law is a very sticky and tricky business. There is both an intelectual property and ownership angle that needs to be balanced here. With Shades of Doom it is based on the doom concept, but the name and game is different enough to probably get away with to much complaint from the maker's of the Doom triligy. As someone pointed out one way to get around copyright law is to come up with something similar, but change it enough that isn't an outright copy. Take the game Resident Evil. At the basic level you are an investigative reporter trapped in a shopping mall with a bunch of psychos and Zombies. The concept itself probably could be used, but not the characters and sounds and avoid copyright laws. Say I come along call it the Zombie mall. Instead of a reporter I am a comando from the Seals, Marines, a FBI agent, bla. The layout of the mall is different. Zombies are in different places. I used someone elses initial idea, but made up my own game. johnny tai wrote: I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Hi Michael, I to am a classic arcade nut. I was a very happy child blasting away in asteroids, centipede, packman, Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, etc however I had enough sight to get in to some of the later PC games as well. Back in 1982 or so one of my favorite arcade games was Star Wars Empire Strikes Back, ESB, and I spent countless hours flying my speader around shooting AT walkers, and so on. You can count on me wanting to redo that game in accessible format. However, according to this thread using SW logos and sounds is wrong. That puts me in between a rock and a hard place A game I enjoyed can't be braught to bare do to copyrights. I think the same copyrights that governs ESB apply to packman, Montezuma's Revenge, and in the end if we always play by the rule books the accesible game community will have to totally rethink our strategy. I was fortunate to live with sight long enough to get in to the PC games and being a SW fan many of them I purchased were of the Star Wars titles. I really hate owning copies of games I can no longer play. I'd love to wrip the sounds out and recreate the game with an accessible design. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
As Dave Greenwood has continuously maintained, he never intended his game to be a precise copy of Doom. It was merely like Doom hence the name Shades of Doom. If it were illegal to make games even remotely similar to each other, there would be very few games out there. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: johnny tai [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 13/01/2007 5:40 PM ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
For those who have never played a certain game or type of game, you are breaking new ground. Think of it this way: If you have lived in a city, let's say San Francisco, for 40 years or so, and what is available to site seers is nothing to you anymore, and a friend who has never been to San Francisco comes to visit for a few weeks, do you not take your friend across the Golden Gate bridge or take him or her aboard a trolley or to Peer 39 or Fisherman's wharf or Alkatraz or Chinatown? After all, you've seen it all so many times before. Your friend, however, has not, and would probably like to see the sites. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
Kind of makes me think of that sword of Damoclese. He was the king of his land but had a sword hung above his head on a thin thread. Due to the accessability moral argument and the low likelyhood of people smelling a fortune to be made from going after game developers, I think our thread might have some thickness to it. While I certainly appreciate the efforts of people who have the skills and fortitude to sit on the throne, I don't think I'll ever choose to put myself in that position. I certainly wouldn't want to turn away from the chance to play true arcade games in accessible form. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Michael, I to am a classic arcade nut. I was a very happy child blasting away in asteroids, centipede, packman, Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, etc however I had enough sight to get in to some of the later PC games as well. Back in 1982 or so one of my favorite arcade games was Star Wars Empire Strikes Back, ESB, and I spent countless hours flying my speader around shooting AT walkers, and so on. You can count on me wanting to redo that game in accessible format. However, according to this thread using SW logos and sounds is wrong. That puts me in between a rock and a hard place A game I enjoyed can't be braught to bare do to copyrights. I think the same copyrights that governs ESB apply to packman, Montezuma's Revenge, and in the end if we always play by the rule books the accesible game community will have to totally rethink our strategy. I was fortunate to live with sight long enough to get in to the PC games and being a SW fan many of them I purchased were of the Star Wars titles. I really hate owning copies of games I can no longer play. I'd love to wrip the sounds out and recreate the game with an accessible design. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 13/01/2007 5:40 PM ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
I am not quite sure how easy that would avoid a company's troop of lawyers if they really want to take you down. I've seen similar situations with comic book companies, for example, the long-debated court case with the creation of Captain Marvel. Here we have a unique character created by a small company, but just happen that his name's the same as one of the largest comic companies ever, they filed a claim on him. Even changing the name to Captain Thunder didn't save them in the end just cause they simply did not have the money and resource to fight Marvel. Here are a few questions that came to mind: - Are we really questioning people using sounds from sighted games cause we are law-loving, good people, or are we just doing it cause we think someone might come and steal ours too? - Can it be that some of us are just hoping for free games? - Do the giant companies really going to waste time bothering small time game-makers like in the blind community? How would they even hear about us? Especially when and if they do that, they might get to deal with the human-right societies and other groups that seem to think that materials copied for blind-use should get a break... - Are we maybe flattering our selves a bit in thinking that even if we make and sell 50 copies of a starwar game, some big-ass company gonna come and drag us to court? - Are we now over reacting a bit in view of what's just happened with Liam's copyright being stolen? I once played alot of sighted games my self, even when I was blind as I am now. Quitting them was my own choice, but to be honest, I'd die a happy man if someone come and sell me a blind-friendly copy of something that I never could manage to play. JST P.S: If any of you come up with a resident evil game for blind people, I'll buy it! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Johnny, Well, it is possible a community as small as ours has simply gone unnoticed by companies like Paramount, or they don't think we are worth there time. Either way David Greenwood has never indicated having any problems with Trek 2000 and I have never heard any complaints about STFC. Copyright law is a very sticky and tricky business. There is both an intelectual property and ownership angle that needs to be balanced here. With Shades of Doom it is based on the doom concept, but the name and game is different enough to probably get away with to much complaint from the maker's of the Doom triligy. As someone pointed out one way to get around copyright law is to come up with something similar, but change it enough that isn't an outright copy. Take the game Resident Evil. At the basic level you are an investigative reporter trapped in a shopping mall with a bunch of psychos and Zombies. The concept itself probably could be used, but not the characters and sounds and avoid copyright laws. Say I come along call it the Zombie mall. Instead of a reporter I am a comando from the Seals, Marines, a FBI agent, bla. The layout of the mall is different. Zombies are in different places. I used someone elses initial idea, but made up my own game. johnny tai wrote: I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
if the sounds were originally free for download then usually they have no copyright. at least i think that's the case. regards damien - Original Message - From: johnny tai [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
what i'm currently doing is making an accessible version of millionaire, but me and steve both had a discussion offlist and we both decided that it might be better to do one just for our own personal use, as celadore or eidos aren't going to allow such measures as the format is so big nowadays. so maybe if someone who could develop wanted a complete accessible remake of a game they could do it for themselves, but then there lies the question that, ok, it's out there, why aren't we getting a go at it. it's a really sticky situation for all of us. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
well if I do program the game if there is copywrited stuff in it I'm going to refference the origional makers/sites I pulled them off. That way at least there is credit in the docs or whatever else needs it. talking about licencing things, does anyone know where fresh coppies of the gnu licence, opensource licence creative commans, and gpl can be located? If I start programming i'm going to have a need of said things in case I wish to use said thing. At 08:25 p.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: if the sounds were originally free for download then usually they have no copyright. at least i think that's the case. regards damien - Original Message - From: johnny tai [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds I don't think I'm too worried about personal preferences here. I too like original materials, but I can't say if someone to make, say, a blind-friendly Final Fantasy game using the FF sounds, I wouldn't buy it- hell, I'd buy it in an instant! My question was more around the legal issue, if using starwar sounds is really not legal, how did GMA get around with using star trek sounds, and the Doom name, that too is not quite original seeing how that game's kind of like the original Doom. And by the way, the sounds in Shades of Doom, some of them anyway, are not original...as far as I can tell, since I came across a site which contains hallween effect sounds for download, and alot of them are sounds you find in SOD. I admit, it is perfectly possible someone took the sounds out of SOD and put it on a site for free download, but it'd be interesting to know how this work legally. Again, I am not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone, just want to learn how things work-- legally. JST -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Che Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds quote: I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but while you are telling him how wrong it may be to make a starwar game using starwar sounds, whatever happened in the cases of, say, trek2000, and previous games that are basically just blind copies of famous sighted games? end quote Well frankly, I think we can create very good and original games without using other programmers' and sound artistswork. I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? However, I understand the frustration of Trekkies and Star Wars fans that don't have accessible games to play, and the major companies have zero interest in producing games for the accessible community. Just my personal view, but I'd rather spend the huge amounts of time it takes to develop a game working on something that hasn't been done before and breaks new ground. Programming these games is tough, no doubt about it, why not push the envelope while your at it? Again I'm not flaming the folks making games using copyrighted material and releasing them for free, but it just isn't my personal M.O. Later, Che ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds
well there is freedom millionaire guys. At 08:37 p.m. 15/01/2007, you wrote: what i'm currently doing is making an accessible version of millionaire, but me and steve both had a discussion offlist and we both decided that it might be better to do one just for our own personal use, as celadore or eidos aren't going to allow such measures as the format is so big nowadays. so maybe if someone who could develop wanted a complete accessible remake of a game they could do it for themselves, but then there lies the question that, ok, it's out there, why aren't we getting a go at it. it's a really sticky situation for all of us. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Illegal activity was: star wars sounds Hi Che, Quote I respect the work and artistry that folks like Thomas have put into games like the Star Trek stuff, but I just don't see the need for it, as for one thing, this type of game has been done with Star Trek sounds, and why risk getting your development company in trouble with copyright lawyers? End quote I think it is not so much a need, but a desire to see such games. A persons personal interests has allot to do with this decision. You are interested in breaking new ground. I on the other hand am really frustrated I could play Dark Forces years ago, and now I am blind, I have no opertunities to play what was important to me, what I enjoyed, and there lies the discussion we are having now. Do I go oh well, Lucas Arts won't make it accessible so I'll move on, or do I say, hey I can program this game, and maybe it won't be the original but I can recapture some of the fun of the past. The other issue is I could break new ground, but how many blind users on this list can honestly say they played Dark Forces, Mysteries of the Sith, etc to the completion. They frankly never had a first chanse, and breaking new ground rather than trying to recreate an oldy means they never get a first or a second chanse. Cheers. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
