Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Hi Tom. I see your point aobut online cards, however I'm afraid I don't agree about graphics entirely, simply because that is not the way the pc indi games work. Obviously, a group of three or four people making a game on their own won't! be able to produce something of the same graphical quality as a multi million dollar company, however such games are stil made and stil sold. Look at aHurrican, the turrican remake. It took 5 years to develope, and has won inumerable awards but graphically is probably only just at the same quality as the playstation 1. Either in a retro style to nostalgia retro freaks, or to people who like a specific type of game, such as the players of roguelikes. I'm not sure about adding full graphics to something like shades of doom, or even more simple games like mota, sinse even to create Snes style graphics would probably take as much time as making the game itself, but simple ones for castaways would! appeal to the players of things like angband, dungeon, Dwarf fortress, rogue etc, (maybe even the rocks n diamonds players), people who rely more on game mechanics than on visual appeal. Then of course, imo a game like shades gains considderable! horror and misteak just by being audio anyway, so more graphics would imho spoil the experience anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Not to seem like I'm taking any particular side, but I think the most important aspect to consider is comfort. The languages clearly have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, and each developer has their own way of judging which of those is most important, but at the end of the day, I believe a developer should go with whatever makes them most comfortable. We hear that regarding work all of the time, do what makes you happy. People push themselves into career that they hate, in search of the most money, or social acceptance, but they might be miserable! If you have money, or acceptance, but are unhappy, really what was the point? A programmer could change the language they use, in search of more efficiency, or a programmer could change the language they use, in search of faster development speeds, but if they aren't as comfortable using that language, their quality of work will diminish simply because their heart is no longer in what they are doing. It has become more work than fun... more mechanical than art. I can only imagine that Thomas is comfortable using his chosen language, for the specific projects he is working on, so in a subjective sense, he Is! using the best language for the job! I think just about all developers change up their tools as they take on different projects. I do anyway. But we should never underestimate the impact of being unhappy with the tools you're using. Go with what makes you happy. :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Dark mentioned that Blind Adrenaline could pull sighted players, but the name would be a hinderance if I put in graphics. Actually, we have a full set of graphics for all the suited games, along with mouse support to click on cards etc. additionally, the poker games show the cards, though the graphics aren't as fleshed out as the suited games. I did this thinking the friends and family of sighted players would want to play with them, and although we did get a few sighted players, overall it was a large waste of coding time unfortunately. Folks on the site have told their friends and family about Blind Adrenaline, let them know they play there a lot and love it, and they can play for free for a month an dall that, and yet, almost nobody sighted checked it out. I think the reasons for this are many, but it was a good lesson to me as a commercial game developer. BTW, I love graphics, in fact made my living doing compositing and 3D animation before losing my sight, but the potential for cross selling here, at least in my experience is very limited. In other words, if someone were going to develop a audio game and had limited time to get it out the door, I'd advise them to forget the graphics. Thoughts? Che On 7/16/2011 10:54 AM, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: Lol, Darren. I just thought you were cold. You're right though, people who have some sight, will probably want at least some graphics that they can use. There isn't much of a point taking away a sense if we don't have to. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Hi, To be very honest, sometimes it's the lack of graphics for me that can put me off a game. No they aren't important primarily and the main focus should always be game play. But for someone who has a little sight like myself, I have to say it does add something else into the game. I'm not saying for a second take away the accessibility, I'd be the first one to say don't do that. but as has already been proven with castaways and with time of conflict, this doesn't have to happen. It's a question of 1 doing it and 2 doing it in a way that doesn't compremise either side. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Hi Che. Just one thought with blind adrenaline. All your games say blind adrenaline and on your site it states that they are designed by one of us, for all of us I'm not suggesting a complete change, but I wonder if you advertized somewhere where sighted games were mentioned, removed the access and screen reader mentions from the cardroom page of the sight and stuck them on a separate page, and renamed all the titles to just B.A. cardroom if that would improve matters. Rather the way America online was only ever advertized as Aol in Britain. Of course it's probably not worth making the changes just for the experement, but I do think it'd be interesting to find out how many people played the game if the fact that the developer and many of the players were blind was not quite so obvious. I only thought the cardroom could be presented to sighted players sinse cards is relatively free of complex 3D stuff, thus people wouldn't expect something majorly graphical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
I agree that I personally like graphics in audio games if possible sinse I like to make ful use of what senses i have, however I disagree that games with just sound alone always lose something. there are several games like packman and pinball which I personally find more fun in audio. Visually, when playing packman you see the hole maze (or at least a good proportion), and where all the ghosts are in relation to you. You know just when a new ghost comes out of the ghost house etc. Audio packman has far more of an exploration feel, and indeed requires you to memorize the labyrinth and take note where you and the items are. ghosts are also more mysterious because of the lack of info about them. I actually think there's a lot to be said for this style of game, and I believe the developers of pappa sanga and nightjar have done so well because they recognize this. in removing one sense, you also require more judgement of the player. I also know people who say the horror of shades of doom is what you don't! see, just like in a horror radio drama where your mind makes the images. This is something that impressed me about the hole audio experience when i first played shades myself. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: blindadrenal...@gmail.com; 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed Hi, To be very honest, sometimes it's the lack of graphics for me that can put me off a game. No they aren't important primarily and the main focus should always be game play. But for someone who has a little sight like myself, I have to say it does add something else into the game. I'm not saying for a second take away the accessibility, I'd be the first one to say don't do that. but as has already been proven with castaways and with time of conflict, this doesn't have to happen. It's a question of 1 doing it and 2 doing it in a way that doesn't compremise either side. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] graphics in audio games, was: Jeremy's speed
Hi Che, That's interesting. I would have thought adding more graphics even simple graphics like cards for an online card game would have some pull with the mainstream community, but there could be some other factors involved here. One factor could be to a mainstream gamer yours is just one of many online card games available to a sighted computer gamer. Internet gaming is a large boom now, and one of the first types of games that hit the internet at large were card games, board games, etc and for many mainstream gamers it might be a case of been there done that so to speak. The other factor could be just the way the mainstream gaming community is going at large. Sure card games are still fairly basic from graphics and animation, but when we look at the new games for the PS III and the XBox 360 the graphics are very detailed and sharp compared to previous generation platforms. Tomb Raider Annaversary, a remake of Tomb Raider I, was light years more graphical and technically supperior than than the game it was based on. If we, as blind developers, want to keep up we'll end up having to spend a large amount of time, money, and energy adding high end graphics and animations to our games just to make them remotely competative to the mainstream market. This would be, as you say, a waist of time. Some people are of the opinion that if we were to add simple graphics and animations the mainstream gamers would flock to our side and play our games. I sincerely doubt it, and the way graphics technology is evolving makes it pretty unlikely that you or I could keep up with that and still produce accessible games that wouldn't take 50 years to create. Lol! On 7/16/11, Che blindadrenal...@gmail.com wrote: Dark mentioned that Blind Adrenaline could pull sighted players, but the name would be a hinderance if I put in graphics. Actually, we have a full set of graphics for all the suited games, along with mouse support to click on cards etc. additionally, the poker games show the cards, though the graphics aren't as fleshed out as the suited games. I did this thinking the friends and family of sighted players would want to play with them, and although we did get a few sighted players, overall it was a large waste of coding time unfortunately. Folks on the site have told their friends and family about Blind Adrenaline, let them know they play there a lot and love it, and they can play for free for a month an dall that, and yet, almost nobody sighted checked it out. I think the reasons for this are many, but it was a good lesson to me as a commercial game developer. BTW, I love graphics, in fact made my living doing compositing and 3D animation before losing my sight, but the potential for cross selling here, at least in my experience is very limited. In other words, if someone were going to develop a audio game and had limited time to get it out the door, I'd advise them to forget the graphics. Thoughts? Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
