Philipp K. Janert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/03/2002 09:47:31 AM:
[snip]
I don't think documentation is marketing - and what I tried to
provide is simply documentation, not different in principle
than Javadoc, only at a higher level.
Except it also contained words such as immature,
- Audience and Marketing:
Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find
something useful for their own projects. (Those users may turn
into contributors over time!)
It takes too much effort to support a user base for a project
that changes rapidly (ie any 'alpha' status code).
-Original Message-
From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
-- I see a need for more integration documentation and top-down
documentation.
Jakarta isnt heirarchical, at all, and is in fact grossly federal, with
member projects able to petition to join, cecede, be expelled. There
On Fri, 2002-03-22 at 17:47, Philipp K. Janert wrote:
Dear Friends!
First off, many thanks to Ted for posting my Draft Jakarta
Overview, thus allowing everyone to review it, and many thanks
to all who provided feedback on it, for or against.
I would like to comment on some
On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 03:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Philipp K. Janert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/03/2002 09:47:31 AM:
[snip]
I don't think documentation is marketing - and what I tried to
provide is simply documentation, not different in principle
than Javadoc, only at a higher
I should draw you a diagram of new federalism it would wreck your
mind... ;-)
On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 05:07, Danny Angus wrote:
-Original Message-
From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
-- I see a need for more integration documentation and top-down
documentation.
At 14:47 22.03.2002 -0800, you wrote:
- Audience and Marketing:
The document is directed towards people who may not be familiar
with all the projects that exist under the Jakarta umbrella.
Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find
something useful for their own projects.
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/03/2002 12:39:09 AM:
'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless.
Commits/month would be a lot better.
Hummm...I'll put that comment in the pile of the most important
activity in software development is
On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 17:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/03/2002 12:39:09 AM:
'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless.
Commits/month would be a lot better.
Hummm...I'll put that comment in the pile of the
Subject: Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)
From: Jon Carnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless.
Commits/month would be a lot better.
True.
/snip
I agree, but you need a purpose for a release
On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 21:25, Jakarta General Newsgroup wrote:
Subject: Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)
From: Jon Carnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless.
Commits/month would be a lot better
On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Waldhoff, Rodney wrote:
| Well said Andrew.
|
| Re. Chris's point, I think we'll be hard pressed to reach consensus on what
| a project maturity means, let alone how to measure it.
|
| If I were building this document (and if I remember correctly, I built this
| document:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
|
| Isn't the overview document trying to substitute itself for the
| documentation that is already in subprojects (or should be)?
No. It's an overview of what's inside of jakarta. Great!
| The cornerstone of the Jakarta and Apache Software Foundation in
present a non-contributors view
of many projects as the Jakarta Overview Definition of what the project
is.
d.
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Danny Angus wrote:
Try and look at the front page for, admittedly a one liner, but one
without subjective overtones, which doesn't present a non-contributors view
of many projects as the Jakarta Overview Definition of what the project
is.
The overview has been donated to the ASF
The overview has been donated to the ASF, and is under Jakarta rules
now. If anyone wants to make it more objective, have at it. If not,
leave it alone and it will wither away.
Regardless of the content, it's important to recognize that the initial
author Did The Right Thing. The
Ted,
I don't want to have an argument, and I'm not criticising Philipp for
offering, nor for the effort he obviously put in.
I do have some reservations with this particular page, which I'm not going
to raise again, if anyones interested they've already read them.
I would like to take you up on
I'm not Ted, but let me take a stab. :)
- Original Message -
From: Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: RE: Jakarta Overview
Ted,
I don't want to have an argument, and I'm not criticising Philipp
On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 01:09 PM, Danny Angus wrote:
snip
And in the interests of providing construtive criticism I'll propose --
A proposals section of the site, into which anyone with karma can commit
any submissions and from which documents can be promoted by lazy concensus
of all
Hi,
I'll try not to keep banging on about this, I know its not that important in
the great scheme of Why We Are Here :-)
but ..
Yes, that is the Commit Then Review philosophy. You cannot
prevent anyone
from initially committing anything, but one it has been committed you can
vote it down.
Morgan,
Your point about trust is well made, I think that its is the straw I was
grasping for!
I seem to have temporarily overlooked the fact that this whole edifice is
glued together by trust already, and to not have a more explicit mechanism
regarding the website made me neglect that..
d.
--
Andy,
Another good point, I do seem to have taken a robustly negative view of all
this. Perhaps too much so.
d.
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- there's too many committers in jakarta to get 'em all to
vote on jakarta-site2. Pointless waste of energy, imho.
- committers are responsible people (or they should be,
at least!)
- as a whole, open source lacks docs. So does Jakarta. For
those that disagree: look at
Dear Friends!
First off, many thanks to Ted for posting my Draft Jakarta
Overview, thus allowing everyone to review it, and many thanks
to all who provided feedback on it, for or against.
I would like to comment on some of the issues raised.
- Purpose and Redundancy:
To clarify the intended
.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Ceki Gulcu
Sent: 20 March 2002 10:27
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: Jakarta Overview
Isn't the overview document trying to substitute itself for the
documentation that
is already in subprojects
March 2002 10:27
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: Jakarta Overview
Isn't the overview document trying to substitute itself for the
documentation that
is already in subprojects (or should be)? The cornerstone of the Jakarta
and
Apache Software Foundation in general
Jakarta is developer-centric because developers are the ones who
volunteer to do the work.
They need working products to use with their paying jobs, and find that
sharing the
development load works better than going it alone.
We don't get many marketing volunteers because there is very little
is rather
similiar in some respects), I'd stick to factual information--brief
description, release dates/numbers, etc. and let the facts speak for
themselves.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver
To: Jakarta General List
Sent: 3/20/2002 6:27 AM
Subject: RE: Jakarta Overview
Perhaps you
Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Re. Chris's point, I think we'll be hard pressed to reach consensus on what
a project maturity means, let alone how to measure it.
If I were building this document (and if I remember correctly, I built this
document:
Greetings!
I have been following some of the recent discussions on this
mailing list about possible directions for the Jakarta project.
I would like to offer the following observation: To have code and
projects coming out of Jakarta being more widely adopted,
developers first need to be aware
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319
Thank you for your contribution.
-Ted.
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Nice docs,
care to explain some things:
Philipp K. Janert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 19/03/2002 11:36:35 AM:
[snip]
significant part in their final decision. (I report the version
number as proxy for the maturity and the extend of the News
section of each project as proxy for its activity.)
: Jakarta Overview
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319
Thank you for your contribution.
-Ted.
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The concept of this document is perhaps a good one, but can you clarify how
its role is distinct from the Jakarta Subprojects section of the homepage?
Also, I take a bit of exception to the Documentation: None classification
on commons-pool and commons-dbcp. The documentation is minimal, no
Hi all,
It feels like Philipp has a downer on javadocs, perhaps he should contribute
docs to those projects he feels are inadequate rather than just criticising,
how many offers of documention contributions do the various projects receive
compared to actual submissions?
It also reads as a pretty
+1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote.
Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319
Thank you for your contribution.
I would be in favor of having the
?
-Original Message-
From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re: Jakarta Overview
+1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote.
Ted
Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319
Thank you for your contribution.
I would be in favor of having the overview linked off of the About
Jakarta section of the left nav.
Index: project.xml
On Tue, 2002-03-19 at 18:01, Daniel Rall wrote:
Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm -1 until someone can clarify how/why this is different from the Jakarta
Subprojects section of the home page.
One difference that I've noticed is that overview.xml is a more
complete and
]
Subject: Re: Re: Jakarta Overview
+1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote.
Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319
Thank you for your contribution
first, good effort. Thanks.
I am not deeply familiar with many of the Jakarta projects (in
particular, I can't quite fathom the full extend of some of the
frameworks, such as Avalon or Turbine, at this time), but in the
spirit of 'release-early/release-often' I would like to make the
Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm -1 until someone can clarify how/why this is different from the Jakarta
Subprojects section of the home page.
One difference that I've noticed is that overview.xml is a more
complete and comprehensive list of projects, where as the Subprojects
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