rsday, January 30, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: nice
> On 30/1/03 13:26 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, for instance, I was once interviewed
On 30/1/03 13:26 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Yeah, for instance, I was once interviewed for a contract to hire gig at
>> Microsoft. (This was circa '97 prior to my involvment in Java). Had I sold
Extemely well said.
Please get well soon my friend! :-)
-Andy
- Original Message -
From: "Santiago Gala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: JCP Process [Was nice ;
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
(...) agreed
Yes - indeed. The idea is to have more public participation (vote early
and often, as they say in Chicago :) in the process w/o the EG having to
expand to include only the mildly interested, and w/o having constraints
like an NDA placed on the mildl
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 10:30 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
>
> Agreed, good supporting feedback, and this is something that is a
> current topic of interest in the JCP EC. We (the members of the EC,
> the ASF being a member) are intereste
On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 10:30 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
(...)
It's the compromise we/I willingly make to be able to work inside the
process to help shape it the way we/I think it should be shaped. The
only alternative is to try to start another standards b
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
(...)
It's the compromise we/I willingly make to be able to work inside the
process to help shape it the way we/I think it should be shaped. The
only alternative is to try to start another standards body, but I think
you will find that, like the other standards bo
ot;Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: nice
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
ex
> There is a JCP mail list, but because of various non-disclosure
> agreements made by the ASF, it's limited to ASF members, who are bound
> by the same agreements. If there is sufficient interest in an open JCP
> discussion list, I'm sure we can set that up.
>
+1 - especially if a goal of it is
And they would not be able to collaborate with their fellow members who are
not in the expert group due to NDAs.
-Andy
- Original Message -
From: "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29
AIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: nice
>
>
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> > We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
>
on 2003/1/29 10:26 AM, "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So the solution for committers who would like to be involved in the JCP is
> to hand around their announce list and website, when a particular new JSR
> is announced they can go volunteer. If successful, then they would do the
> a
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
(...)
What else would you like to know? What are your specific problems? is
there a specific technology/spec that you are interested in
participating in? have you ever interacted with the expert group of a
JSR via their interest list or during a public, community re
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
(...)
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
IMO, the closeness of the JCP process bring
So the solution for committers who would like to be involved in the JCP is
to hand around their announce list and website, when a particular new JSR
is announced they can go volunteer. If successful, then they would do the
agreement thing and be an ASF representative?
Hen
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Jo
on 2003/1/29 7:16 AM, "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The ASF is a member. Any ASF member is covered by that agreement, and
> can thus, if they choose, represent the ASF on the EG if the EG
> accepts. IIRC, non-members can also represent the ASF on an expert
> group, but it doe
http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/godwin_s_law.html
Tom
> -Original Message-
> From: Micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:20 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: nice
>
>
> I think the next improvement on wh
I think the next improvement on who decides should mention guns, anthrax, etc.?
At 10:08 AM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes
decide everything."
--Josef Stalin
Actually, the latest update to this is, "The cour
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 09:38 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
executive committee (I am the current representative), and we have
many
members (and non-members) participating in
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes
decide everything."
--Josef Stalin
Actually, the latest update to this is, "The court that decides whether
to recount the votes... decides everything."
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software
>
> Tell that to the Ruby developer working on the next big thing.
Hey, I resemble that remark! :-)
Tom
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
> executive committee (I am the current representative), and we have many
> members (and non-members) participating in various JSRs.
Yeah I know. Thus my questions as to whether Apac
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 08:32 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
It's only by understanding the JCP and infiltrating it that we have
much
chance to try and change it though. The whole thing is just one opaque
block from here.
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
e
It's only by understanding the JCP and infiltrating it that we have much
chance to try and change it though. The whole thing is just one opaque
block from here.
Hen
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
> > Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
>
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
-jon
+1 Well said Jon.
---
your vote counts. JCP is what Java has that .NET never will and
that is why .NET will win.
-- Robert
- Original Message -
From: "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subj
Robert Simmons wrote:
Welcome to real life business. In the real world, not everything goes your
way. You get to choose between a mass of "political bullshit" and having no
choice at all.
you have a choice: open source software. And it's a good choice for real
life business, too.
cheers :D
-
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
Yay! +1
Cluetrain might be the naive interpretat
he committer,
> > I am unable to speak on behalf of the ASF. Equally, as a JCP member I
> > would not be able to speak on behalf of JCP.
> >
> > > > While you offer a nice brochure view of the JCP, the other side is that
> > > > the JCP is a large com
ons wrote:
>
> > > But who speaks for JCP?
> >
> > Those who chose to be involved.
>
> I'm not sure I'm conveying the question properly. As an Apache committer,
> I am unable to speak on behalf of the ASF. Equally, as a JCP member I
> would not be able to
on 2003/1/28 9:50 PM, "Robert Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Welcome to real life business. In the real world, not everything goes your
> way. You get to choose between a mass of "political bullshit" and having no
> choice at all. I opt for choice even if the choice is flawed. You can put
>
tevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: nice
> Don't bother questioning or wondering about the JCP. Fact of the matter is
> that it is just one big fucked mess full of all the political bullshit yo
speak on behalf of JCP.
> > While you offer a nice brochure view of the JCP, the other side is that
> > the JCP is a large company dominated organisation which conducts its
> > business behind closed doors and has a high cost to effective entry.
>
> High cost ? Last I chec
Don't bother questioning or wondering about the JCP. Fact of the matter is
that it is just one big fucked mess full of all the political bullshit you
could ever imagine. It isn't worth your time.
-jon
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>
> But who speaks for JCP?
Those who chose to be involved.
> While you offer a nice brochure view of the JCP, the other side is that
> the JCP is a large company dominated organisation which conducts its
> business behind closed doors and has a high cost to effective entry.
Hig
But who speaks for JCP?
While you offer a nice brochure view of the JCP, the other side is that
the JCP is a large company dominated organisation which conducts its
business behind closed doors and has a high cost to effective entry.
An individual can join one project without having to pay
: "Henri Yandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: nice
>
> Interesting points.
>
> Who runs the JCP? Is Apache just a member, or an actual runner? If so, is
&g
Interesting points.
Who runs the JCP? Is Apache just a member, or an actual runner? If so, is
it Apache's role to comment in anyway on the current disatisfaction with
the hidden-ness of the JCP? Or is that the JCP themselves [if such exists]
role?
[Apache's role, along with all the other top-lev
http://rasmussen.homeip.net:8088/fileblog/blog/computers/java/culture#jcp_mystery
-Andy
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