Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 21:25, Jakarta General Newsgroup wrote: > Subject: Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview) > From: Jon Carnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > === > Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > > >> > > 'News' as a measure of activity on a project

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

Subject: Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview) From: Jon Carnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> === Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > >> > > 'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless. >> > > Commits/month would be a lot better. > True. >

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 17:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 24/03/2002 12:39:09 AM: > > > > 'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless. > > > Commits/month would be a lot better. > > > > > > > Hummm...I'll put that comment in

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 24/03/2002 12:39:09 AM: > > 'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless. > > Commits/month would be a lot better. > > > > Hummm...I'll put that comment in the pile of "the most important > activity in software development

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

At 14:47 22.03.2002 -0800, you wrote: >- Audience and "Marketing": >The document is directed towards people who may not be familiar >with all the projects that exist under the Jakarta umbrella. >Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find >something useful for their own projects.

Re: FW: RE: RE: Jakarta Overview

I should draw you a diagram of "new federalism" it would wreck your mind... ;-) On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 05:07, Danny Angus wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > -- I see a need for more integration documentation and top-down > > documentat

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 03:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Philipp K. Janert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 23/03/2002 09:47:31 AM: > > > > [snip] > > I don't think documentation is marketing - and what I tried to > > provide is simply documentation, not different in principle > > than Javadoc, only

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

On Fri, 2002-03-22 at 17:47, Philipp K. Janert wrote: > > Dear Friends! > > First off, many thanks to Ted for posting my Draft Jakarta > Overview, thus allowing everyone to review it, and many thanks > to all who provided feedback on it, for or against. > > I would li

FW: RE: RE: Jakarta Overview

> -Original Message- > From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > -- I see a need for more integration documentation and top-down > documentation. Jakarta isnt heirarchical, at all, and is in fact grossly federal, with member projects able to petition to join, cecede, be expelled. The

RE: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

> - Audience and "Marketing": > Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find > something useful for their own projects. (Those users may turn > into contributors over time!) It takes too much effort to support a user base for a project that changes rapidly (ie any 'alpha' status c

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

Philipp K. Janert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 23/03/2002 09:47:31 AM: > [snip] > I don't think documentation is marketing - and what I tried to > provide is simply documentation, not different in principle > than Javadoc, only at a higher level. Except it also contained words such as immature

Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

Dear Friends! First off, many thanks to Ted for posting my Draft Jakarta Overview, thus allowing everyone to review it, and many thanks to all who provided feedback on it, for or against. I would like to comment on some of the issues raised. - Purpose and Redundancy: To clarify the intended

RE: Jakarta Overview

- there's too many committers in jakarta to get 'em all to vote on jakarta-site2. Pointless waste of energy, imho. - committers are responsible people (or they should be, at least!) - as a whole, open source lacks docs. So does Jakarta. For those that disagree: look at sensible-documentation

RE: RE: Jakarta Overview

Andy, Another good point, I do seem to have taken a robustly negative view of all this. Perhaps too much so. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail:

RE: Jakarta Overview

Morgan, Your point about trust is well made, I think that its is the straw I was grasping for! I seem to have temporarily overlooked the fact that this whole edifice is glued together by trust already, and to not have a more explicit mechanism regarding the website made me neglect that.. d. --

Re: RE: Jakarta Overview

>Does this mean that anything "donated" is accepted on behalf of the project, >by anyone with karma, without discussion and can therefore only be openly >opposed once it has already been accepted? > I think the line of thinking behind the question (irrelevant of the question itself) is incorrect

Re: Jakarta Overview

- Original Message - From: "Danny Angus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:55 AM Subject: RE: Jakarta Overview > Hi, > I'll try not to keep banging on about this, I know its not

RE: Jakarta Overview

Hi, I'll try not to keep banging on about this, I know its not that important in the great scheme of Why We Are Here :-) but .. > Yes, that is the "Commit Then Review" philosophy. You cannot > prevent anyone > from initially committing anything, but one it has been committed you can > vote it do

Re: Jakarta Overview

On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 01:09 PM, Danny Angus wrote: > And in the interests of providing construtive criticism I'll propose -- > A "proposals" section of the site, into which anyone with karma can commit > any submissions and from which documents can be promoted by lazy concensus > of all

Re: Jakarta Overview

I'm not Ted, but let me take a stab. :) - Original Message - From: "Danny Angus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:09 AM Subject: RE: Jakarta Overview > Ted, > I don't w

RE: Jakarta Overview

Ted, I don't want to have an argument, and I'm not criticising Philipp for offering, nor for the effort he obviously put in. I do have some reservations with this particular page, which I'm not going to raise again, if anyones interested they've already read them. I would like to take you up on a

Re: Jakarta Overview

> > The overview has been donated to the ASF, and is under Jakarta rules > now. If anyone wants to make it more objective, have at it. If not, > leave it alone and it will wither away. > > Regardless of the content, it's important to recognize that the initial > author Did The Right Thing. The

Re: Jakarta Overview

Danny Angus wrote: > Try and look at the front page for, admittedly a "one liner", but one > without subjective overtones, which doesn't present a non-contributors view > of many projects as the "Jakarta Overview Definition" of what the project > is. The over

RE: Jakarta Overview

hout subjective overtones, which doesn't present a non-contributors view of many projects as the "Jakarta Overview Definition" of what the project is. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Jakarta Overview

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Ceki Gülcü wrote: | | Isn't the "overview" document trying to substitute itself for the | documentation that is already in subprojects (or should be)? No. It's an overview of what's "inside" of jakarta. Great! | The cornerstone of the Jakarta and Apache Software Foundation

Re: Jakarta Overview

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Waldhoff, Rodney wrote: | Well said Andrew. | | Re. Chris's point, I think we'll be hard pressed to reach consensus on what | a project "maturity" means, let alone how to measure it. | | If I were building this document (and if I remember correctly, I built this | document: h

Re: Jakarta Overview

"Waldhoff, Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Re. Chris's point, I think we'll be hard pressed to reach consensus on what > a project "maturity" means, let alone how to measure it. > > If I were building this document (and if I remember correctly, I built this > document: http://jakarta.apache

RE: Jakarta Overview

mponents.html, which is rather similiar in some respects), I'd stick to factual information--brief description, release dates/numbers, etc. and let the facts speak for themselves. -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver To: Jakarta General List Sent: 3/20/2002 6:27 AM Subject: RE:

Re: Jakarta Overview

Jakarta is developer-centric because developers are the ones who volunteer to do the work. They need working products to use with their paying jobs, and find that sharing the development load works better than going it alone. We don't get many marketing volunteers because there is very little

RE: Jakarta Overview

sibilities... > > > Chris. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Ceki Gulcu > Sent: 20 March 2002 10:27 > To: Jakarta General List > Subject: Re: Jakarta Overview > > > > Isn't the

RE: Jakarta Overview

ties... Chris. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ceki Gulcu Sent: 20 March 2002 10:27 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Jakarta Overview Isn't the "overview" document trying to substitute itself for the documentation that

Re: Jakarta Overview

help or advice is welcome, of course! > >The compilation follows below - I have tried to encode it using >the jakarta-site XML tags. My apologies if I am not using them >properly. I think it would be wonderful if the document could be >made available on the Jakarta website for re

RE: Jakarta Overview

first, good effort. Thanks. > I am not deeply familiar with many of the Jakarta projects (in > particular, I can't quite fathom the full extend of some of the > frameworks, such as Avalon or Turbine, at this time), but in the > spirit of 'release-early/release-often' I would like to make the > in

RE: Re: Jakarta Overview

D]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:16 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: Jakarta Overview > > > +1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit. > > >On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Rall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote

Re: Jakarta Overview

On Tue, 2002-03-19 at 18:01, Daniel Rall wrote: > "Waldhoff, Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'm -1 until someone can clarify how/why this is different from the "Jakarta > > Subprojects" section of the home page. > > One difference that I've noticed is that overview.xml is a more > com

Re: Jakarta Overview

"Waldhoff, Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm -1 until someone can clarify how/why this is different from the "Jakarta > Subprojects" section of the home page. One difference that I've noticed is that overview.xml is a more complete and comprehensive list of projects, where as the Subproj

RE: Re: Jakarta Overview

us of their projects? -Original Message- From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Jakarta Overview +1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit. >On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Ra

Re: Re: Jakarta Overview

+1 - I'd like to see the detractors patch it as they see fit. >On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:56:31 -0800 Daniel Rall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote. >Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319 >> >> Thank you for your contribution. > >I would be in favor of hav

Re: Jakarta Overview

Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319 > > Thank you for your contribution. I would be in favor of having the overview linked off of the "About Jakarta" section of the left nav. Index: project.xml =

RE: Jakarta Overview

Hi all, It feels like Philipp has a downer on javadocs, perhaps he should contribute docs to those projects he feels are inadequate rather than just criticising, how many offers of documention contributions do the various projects receive compared to actual submissions? It also reads as a pretty p

RE: Jakarta Overview

The concept of this document is perhaps a good one, but can you clarify how its role is distinct from the "Jakarta Subprojects" section of the homepage? Also, I take a bit of exception to the "Documentation: None" classification on commons-pool and commons-dbcp. The documentation is minimal, no

RE: Jakarta Overview

ubject: Re: Jakarta Overview http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319 Thank you for your contribution. -Ted. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Jakarta Overview

Nice docs, care to explain some things: Philipp K. Janert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 19/03/2002 11:36:35 AM: [snip] > significant part in their final decision. (I report the version > number as proxy for the maturity and the extend of the News > section of each project as proxy for its activit

Re: Jakarta Overview

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0319 Thank you for your contribution. -Ted. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail:

Jakarta Overview

y, I don't maintain a personal website at the moment). Best regards, Ph. Janert - Philipp K. Janert, Ph.D. janert at ieee dot org # Document begins below #