On 30/1/03 13:26 Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah, for instance, I was once interviewed for a contract to hire gig at
Microsoft. (This was circa '97 prior to my involvment in Java). Had I sold
my soul,
Right but he's not AFAIK working there now and potentially exposed to
NDA-tainted individuals :-)
-Andy
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: nice
Robert Simmons wrote:
Welcome to real life business. In the real world, not everything goes your
way. You get to choose between a mass of political bullshit and having no
choice at all.
you have a choice: open source software. And it's a good choice for real
life business, too.
cheers :D
-
counts. JCP is what Java has that .NET never will and
that is why .NET will win.
-- Robert
- Original Message -
From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: nice
Interesting points.
Who runs
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
-jon
+1 Well said Jon.
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 08:32 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
It's only by understanding the JCP and infiltrating it that we have
much
chance to try and change it though. The whole thing is just one opaque
block from here.
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
executive committee (I am the current representative), and we have many
members (and non-members) participating in various JSRs.
Yeah I know. Thus my questions as to whether
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes
decide everything.
--Josef Stalin
Actually, the latest update to this is, The court that decides whether
to recount the votes... decides everything.
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech software .
On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 09:38 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
executive committee (I am the current representative), and we have
many
members (and non-members) participating
I think the next improvement on who decides should mention guns, anthrax, etc.?
At 10:08 AM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes
decide everything.
--Josef Stalin
Actually, the latest update to this is, The court
http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/godwin_s_law.html
Tom
-Original Message-
From: Micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:20 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: nice
I think the next improvement on who decides should mention
guns
on 2003/1/29 7:16 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The ASF is a member. Any ASF member is covered by that agreement, and
can thus, if they choose, represent the ASF on the EG if the EG
accepts. IIRC, non-members can also represent the ASF on an expert
group, but it does
So the solution for committers who would like to be involved in the JCP is
to hand around their announce list and website, when a particular new JSR
is announced they can go volunteer. If successful, then they would do the
agreement thing and be an ASF representative?
Hen
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003,
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
(...)
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
IMO, the closeness of the JCP process
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
(...)
What else would you like to know? What are your specific problems? is
there a specific technology/spec that you are interested in
participating in? have you ever interacted with the expert group of a
JSR via their interest list or during a public, community
on 2003/1/29 10:26 AM, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So the solution for committers who would like to be involved in the JCP is
to hand around their announce list and website, when a particular new JSR
is announced they can go volunteer. If successful, then they would do the
, 2003 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: nice
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
We have 'infiltrated' it. The ASF is a member of the J2SE/J2EE
executive committee (I am the current representative), and we have many
members (and non-members) participating in various JSRs.
Yeah I know
And they would not be able to collaborate with their fellow members who are
not in the expert group due to NDAs.
-Andy
- Original Message -
From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: nice
So
There is a JCP mail list, but because of various non-disclosure
agreements made by the ASF, it's limited to ASF members, who are bound
by the same agreements. If there is sufficient interest in an open JCP
discussion list, I'm sure we can set that up.
+1 - especially if a goal of it is to
Interesting points.
Who runs the JCP? Is Apache just a member, or an actual runner? If so, is
it Apache's role to comment in anyway on the current disatisfaction with
the hidden-ness of the JCP? Or is that the JCP themselves [if such exists]
role?
[Apache's role, along with all the other
: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: nice
Interesting points.
Who runs the JCP? Is Apache just a member, or an actual runner? If so, is
it Apache's role to comment in anyway on the current
vote counts. JCP is what Java has that .NET never will and
that is why .NET will win.
-- Robert
- Original Message -
From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: nice
Interesting points
Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: nice
Interesting points.
Who runs the JCP? Is Apache just a member, or an actual runner? If so,
is
it Apache's role to comment in anyway on the current
Don't bother questioning or wondering about the JCP. Fact of the matter is
that it is just one big fucked mess full of all the political bullshit you
could ever imagine. It isn't worth your time.
-jon
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote:
But who speaks for JCP?
Those who chose to be involved.
I'm not sure I'm conveying the question properly. As an Apache committer,
I am unable to speak on behalf of the ASF. Equally, as a JCP member I
would not be able to speak on behalf of JCP.
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: nice
Don't bother questioning or wondering about the JCP. Fact of the matter is
that it is just one big fucked mess full of all the political bullshit you
could ever imagine. It isn't worth your time.
-jon
on 2003/1/28 9:50 PM, Robert Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Welcome to real life business. In the real world, not everything goes your
way. You get to choose between a mass of political bullshit and having no
choice at all. I opt for choice even if the choice is flawed. You can put
your
[Electricity outages tonight mean my DNS is down. But looking at the JCP
in a text browser the mail archives are at:
http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/jcp-interest.html
Time for more spam :)
Hen
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Henri Yandell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote:
To continue having fun replying to myself:
This mail list seems to be akin to a JCP-announce list. It seems to be
Harold Ogle sending out announcements that new documents are available at
the JCP. Useful, but not really what I was asking Robert to show existence
of.
Hen
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003,
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Real life business shouldn't be bullshit. I'm not going to buy into that. It
is people like you who opt into the flawed choices instead of speaking up
that allow the flawed choices to continue on longer than they should.
Yay! +1
Cluetrain might be the naive
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