John J. Foster ha scritto:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 09:32:26AM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to
change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were
invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:06:07 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is
there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the
standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few
quick questions and filter out any
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:53:07 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
As I said there aren't even any terms to search for when you're
getting ignored. If I had known that the problem was html mails from
the start, then i would have already corrected the issue before
searching the archive.
You're
I intended to stay silent, however I feel obliged to balance the posts
from brullonu...@gmail.com
On 22 Dec 2008, at 05:31, Willie Wong wrote:
...
But as the thread drags on, your stubborn defense against other
posters
who request that you drop the subject already because
...
*) your
I intended to stay silent, however I feel obliged to balance the posts
from brullonu...@gmail.com
On 22 Dec 2008, at 02:46, Willie Wong wrote:
...
You are still under one assumption: that if you had sent your e-mail
in plain text, you won't be ignored. Granted that you will be ignored
less
On 22 Dec 2008, at 01:06, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely
irrelevant
thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you
just don't do
it.
Stroller ha scritto:
I intended to stay silent, however I feel obliged to balance the posts
from brullonu...@gmail.com
You could answer to my emails, argumenting in detail. I hope we're not
here to score points, but to understand what to do to solve the
situation.
In my humble opinion, just
On 21 Dec 2008, at 09:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
... On perhaps my third or fourth repost, I found a
shocking answer:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht
...
You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the
HTML
one. I don't read more than one line when
Stroller ha scritto:
On 21 Dec 2008, at 09:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
... On perhaps my third or fourth repost, I found a
shocking answer:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht
...
You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML
one. I don't read
On 22 Dec 2008, at 11:33, b.n. wrote:
Stroller ha scritto:
I intended to stay silent, however I feel obliged to balance the
posts
from brullonu...@gmail.com
You could answer to my emails, argumenting in detail. I hope we're not
here to score points, but to understand what to do to solve
On 22 Dec 2008, at 12:59, b.n. wrote:
...
I don't know what you mean by using the adjective cold in
relation to
the communication error that your mailer posts HTML by default. You
should file an upstream bug about that with whomever supplies it.
Why is posting HTML mail a bug? I don't like
On Montag 22 Dezember 2008, b.n. wrote:
The user is complaining of a *damn serious* problem. His emails were
ignored for an undocumented formatting community rule, and it made
impossible for him to use the mailing list, without anything alarming
him of the problem until late.
no. His mails
Volker Armin Hemmann ha scritto:
On Montag 22 Dezember 2008, b.n. wrote:
The user is complaining of a *damn serious* problem. His emails were
ignored for an undocumented formatting community rule, and it made
impossible for him to use the mailing list, without anything alarming
him of the
Stroller ha scritto:
On 22 Dec 2008, at 12:59, b.n. wrote:
...
I don't know what you mean by using the adjective cold in relation to
the communication error that your mailer posts HTML by default. You
should file an upstream bug about that with whomever supplies it.
Why is posting HTML
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
Please. He's completely right in demanding apologies and a swift
reaction to the problem -because if users cannot access the list due to
undocumented stuff, it's a problem.
no, he is absolutly
On Montag 22 Dezember 2008, b.n. wrote:
Volker Armin Hemmann ha scritto:
And what's even worse, instead of people concerning about that and how
to solve the situation in the future, there is a lot of people giggling
and behaving like OMG H4X0RZ against the lame n00b , ignoring the
fact
b.n. wrote:
We -the plain text fans- are the weird ones.
m.
I do a lot of text only to but I do like that one.
Dale
:-) :-)
Stroller wrote:
It's a bug because it annoys people. It only tends to annoy me when the
sender has set the text to a size which is unreadable or intrusive on my
monitor (a size which is undoubtedly perfect on the sender's 800x600
monitor), but it appears to annoy other people more. That
On 22 Dec 2008, at 18:23, Steven Susbauer wrote:
Stroller wrote:
... Mailers should default to plain text
unless the user explicitly chooses otherwise.
...
Mailers should also default to useful column sizes, which seem to have
failed in the case of your last message.
Keith Moore's [1]
On 12/22/08, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
no. His mails were ignored because nobody had an answer. Shown by the fact
that nobody complained about his triple posting or html mails.
This is my favourite conspiracy theory as well, not the
no-html-theories. We've
On 22 Dec 2008, at 23:18, Stroller wrote:
...
I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or
the
mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or
unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a
warning sign that the amount of
On Montag 22 Dezember 2008, Arttu V. wrote:
*If you're so sure it's the html in his emails, then why don't you
answer his questions about Gnome?*
well, I saw his mails - and I did not react to them, because I don't use gnome
since the 2.0 disaster. Since then I am a happy KDE-only user.
Not
On Dienstag 23 Dezember 2008, Stroller wrote:
One reason your post generated so many responses is that *everyone*
has posted once in HTML and been asked not to.
not me. And others did not too. Because 'no html' is a common thing for user
related mailing lists.
On 12/23/08, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
On Montag 22 Dezember 2008, Arttu V. wrote:
*If you're so sure it's the html in his emails, then why don't you
answer his questions about Gnome?*
well, I saw his mails - and I did not react to them, because I
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Stroller
strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
You are not stupid. I think your use of English is excellent, you just have
to decide upon how you wish to present yourself.
Stroller, all I can say is that you are reading too much into my posts
and trying to
On Dienstag 23 Dezember 2008, Arttu V. wrote:
since the 2.0 disaster. Since then I am a happy KDE-only user.
Not using gnome makes me skip gnome threads automatically - the few
things I remember back from the 1.4 days won't help anyway.
I run KDE as well (so maybe I'm biased to comment
Oh and just to make it clear once and for all,
I was perfectly fine with the idea that my problems might go ignored,
and in fact my running assumption all this time was that nobody knew
or was interested in my particular problems. That's how mailing lists
work. Sometimes you win, sometimes you
On 23 Dec 2008, at 00:47, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
...
Stroller, all I can say is that you are reading too much into my posts
and trying to second-guess my intentions.
...
If you're that emotionally invested in getting offended by my style,
then have a nice day.
That's right. Because it
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Stroller
strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
You are not stupid. I think your use of English is excellent, you just have
to decide upon how you wish to present yourself.
Stroller,
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
(snippage) Half the fun of Gentoo is
knowing that you're kinda on your own.
Hmm - I think the point of this community is that you are anything but
on your own. The (many) other posters have been trying to help you
realize that you are much more likely to discover
Hi gentoo-user,
The previous week I asked a little something about some gnome problems
and was surprised that while other mails were getting responses within
hours, even minutes, of posting, I had posted and reposted the same
message three times over the span of a week - to no joy. I figured
that
Mark David Dumlao schrieb:
[...]
If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient
step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now
that I'm looking for it.
What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail
by default, and one
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
snip
That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
years later, that wearing shoes there
btw, it is not about capabilities - it is about willingness. Most people are
not willing to deal with the crap that is html-emails. They are no good. They
are huge, they are risky, they make everything harder.
And no-html is the norm for almost every mailing list (except maybe outlook-
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a
no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than
readership, you are on your own.
Hey I don't
User Relations bug 251931
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
User Relations bug 251931
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
Access Denied
You are not authorized to access bug #251931.
Please press Back and try again.
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
User Relations bug 251931
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
Access Denied
You are not authorized to access bug #251931.
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
User Relations bug 251931
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
Access
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote:
emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually
someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part.
It is in this particular case where the people _are_ the
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
years later, that wearing shoes
On Monday 22 December 2008 01:35:41 Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
where to begin. It's like being in a foreign
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant
thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do
it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and
On Monday 22 December 2008 03:06:07 Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely
irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen -
you just don't
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant
thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do
it. There isn't a rule about
But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil
the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the
problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed.
The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html
mails. But ignoring the problem isn't
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't
mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks
a question and the answer is, search the archives for XYZ, we already
covered
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil
the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the
problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed.
The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html
mails. But
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't
mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks
a question and the answer is, search the
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as
this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some people do ignore
posts that
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads.
There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives
of gentoo-user. The link below is the search I used, sorted by date
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as
this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know if he could have made that any clearer. That being said,
I'm done contributing to spam on the list. Please bottom post and post
in a text only format. For many people (myself included) this is the
first
On 12/22/08, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
The bug report is not about the clarity of an already-late reminder.
The problem is that it was late for me, it will be late for a few
hundred other posters after me, and it will be late for a few hundred
posters after them unless
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 09:53:07AM +0800, Penguin Lover Mark David Dumlao
squawked:
As I said there aren't even any terms to search for when you're
getting ignored. If I had known that the problem was html mails from
the start, then i would have already corrected the issue before
searching
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote:
I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as
this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 09:32:26AM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to
change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were
invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going
to be a problem for any
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Willie Wong ww...@princeton.edu wrote:
So don't be such a pompous ass. We didn't ignore you because we don't
like you. There's never a policy by the gentoo-user mailing list to
automatically, collectively ignore all e-mails sent in HTML. We are
not that well
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:16:05PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked:
This is my two cents. Since when someone comes here and posts a html
message they get told not to use html anyway, why not let them know
beforehand that html is not the norm on this list? I don't think it
would hurt to
Willie Wong wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:16:05PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked:
This is my two cents. Since when someone comes here and posts a html
message they get told not to use html anyway, why not let them know
beforehand that html is not the norm on this list? I don't
Willie Wong wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:16:05PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked:
This is my two cents. Since when someone comes here and posts a html
message they get told not to use html anyway, why not let them know
beforehand that html is not the norm on this list? I don't think
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 12:03:36PM +0800, Penguin Lover Mark David Dumlao
squawked:
Pompous ass? Personal Vendetta? Pissed off? What world is this?
One bug report is just an announcement that there is a problem. It
might seem to you that people get on a high horse when they say that,
but a
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:39:30PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked:
Well, just do this. *list netiquette* If I recall correctly, if the
person is set up to get html, that will be in bold. If it is text only
then they just see the *'s. I have noticed in the past that mine has
done this
Willie Wong wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:39:30PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked:
Well, just do this. *list netiquette* If I recall correctly, if the
person is set up to get html, that will be in bold. If it is text only
then they just see the *'s. I have noticed in the past
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