From: geoengi...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
Daniele Visioni
Sent: 28 December 2022 23:51
To: lu...@lukeiseman.com
Cc: geoengineering
Subject: Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachme
>>>>>>>>>> i predict trains / trucks / cars will soon be using the stuff.
>>>>>>>>>> Far greener than Li batteries and I think safer. Never mind the Co2
>>>>>>>>>> output. An electric car costs more to
>>>>>>> car does ( + 70,000) miles of petrol. i should have bought an H2
>>>>>>>>> car, but
>>>>>>>>> the problem is there are / were on 11 charging stations in the YK and
>>>>>>>>> 8 of
>>>>>>>>> them were in
tual cause of the hind disaster?)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i predict trains / trucks / cars will soon be using the stuff.
>>>>>>>>>> Far greener than Li batteries and I think safer. Never mind the Co2
>>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>>> car, but
>>>>>>>>> the problem is there are / were on 11 charging stations in the YK and
>>>>>>>>> 8 of
>>>>>>>>> them were in the M25
>>>>>>>>> A.
>&
>>> Tel: +44 / 0 775 451 9009
>>>>>>>> T ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 29 Dec 2022, at 11:05, Andrew Lockley
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>&g
;>>>>> Alan Gadian, UK.
>>>>>>>> Tel: +44 / 0 775 451 9009
>>>>>>>> T ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 29 Dec 2022, at 11:05, Andrew Lockley
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>&g
y
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Large weather balloons don't have much over pressure relative to
>>>>>>>> volume, so venting i
gt;>> Hydrogen
>>>>>>> has ground handling risks, due to flammability (Hindenberg), and any
>>>>>>> leaks
>>>>>>> risk buoyancy loss and the canopy descending loaded. The most extreme
>>>>>>> scenario is that
nopy descending loaded. The most extreme
>>>>>> scenario is that an out of control failed balloon descends into an
>>>>>> enclosed
>>>>>> building through an open door, skylight, or Courtyard. In windy
>>>>>> conditions,
>>
nditions,
>>>>> drift into a small industrial unit is perfectly possible, through the
>>>>> roller shutter doors - which could be automatically or accidentally
>>>>> closed
>>>>> behind, trapping the balloon and its flammable pa
nto a fully enclosed space, with ignition risks.
>>>>
>>>> While such scenarios appear outlandish, with thousands or millions of
>>>> launches, they become real risks.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 29 Dec
derstand the bit about bursting. Control of a venting valve
>>>> protects the balloon and allows release at the chosen altitude.
>>>>
>>>> Helium is irreplaceable and needed for super cooling. Is there a reason
>>>> not to use hydrogen?
ects the balloon and allows release at the chosen altitude.
>>>
>>> Helium is irreplaceable and needed for super cooling. Is there a reason
>>> not to use hydrogen?
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Emeritus Pro
ool of Engineering*
>>
>> *University of Edinburgh*
>>
>> *Mayfield Road*
>>
>> *Edinburgh EH9 3DW*
>>
>> *Scotland*
>>
>> *0131 650 5704 or 0131 662 1180*
>>
>> *YouTube Jamie Taylor Power for Change*
>>
>>
>>
>
This useful dialogue helps repair the communication breakdown, ensuring we
can all stay friends - that's the way it should be (my desire, anyway).
I've been wondering when the levee breaks for some time, on test
deployment. Balloons seem to be the epic small scale approach, considering
there's no
Thanks for the link to the Ocko & Hamburg paper. Steve and I often
disagree , but in terms of the numbers we're on the same page on this one.
Luke gets points for facing reality on the helium supply situation, but
his retreat into the arms of hydrogen and heavier than aircraft makes me
Dan
What's your view on using CH4 as a lifting gas at volume scale?
Andrew
On Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 16:48 Daniele Visioni,
wrote:
> Aside from simply being a greenhouse gas (and not to mention how it is
> produced - countries use weather balloons filled with hydrogen but the
> machinery to
Aside from simply being a greenhouse gas (and not to mention how it is produced
- countries use weather balloons filled with hydrogen but the machinery to
produce H on site is expensive, and the handling procedures are complex, see
https://www.fp2fire.com/hydrogen-balloon-inflation/), hydrogen
Stephen
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Lockley
> *Sent:* 29 December 2022 11:05
> *To:* Stephen Salter
> *Cc:* Luke Iseman ; geoengineering <
> geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
>
>
>
> *This email was sent to
> pump is needed. I can give you a valve design weighing less than one gram.
> Think open prairie for launching.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Lockley
> *Sent:* 29 December 2022 11:05
> *To:* Stephen Salter
> *Cc:* Luke Iseman ; geoengineering <
> g
. No pump is needed. I can
give you a valve design weighing less than one gram. Think open prairie for
launching.
Stephen
From: Andrew Lockley
Sent: 29 December 2022 11:05
To: Stephen Salter
Cc: Luke Iseman ; geoengineering
Subject: Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
This email was sent
seman.com
Cc: geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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L
Your web site claim that 1 gram of SO2 injected offsets the effect of 1 ton CO2
for a year is fundamentally misleading. Any effect on temperature of injected
particles lasts only as long as the particles are in the stratosphere. If a
one-time injection has a lifetime of 1-2 years that
;
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* geoengineering@googlegroups.com *On
> Behalf Of *Daniele Visioni
> *Sent:* 28 December 2022 23:51
> *To:* l...@lukeiseman.com
> *Cc:* geoengineering
> *Subject:* Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
>
>
>
> *This email was s
: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email
is genuine and the content is safe.
Luke,
I will keep finding this rather murky as long as you keep being so hand-wavy
Luke, you should also be aware of criticisms of short term CDR climate
intervention, eg by Höglund. He explained his arguments to Reviewer 2
https://open.spotify.com/episode/792ZqIXDuqTOVdoJE3ZNyu?si=mTUC3aQdS_yJqISL7H0rXw
He strongly criticises vertical stacking, arguing that short term
Luke,I will keep finding this rather murky as long as you keep being so hand-wavy about your numbers and then claiming you can offset a “substantial amount of warming” in your homepage.Weather balloons have different bursting altitudes depending on 1) payload 2) amount of helium used to inflate 3)
Thanks Andrew, Olivier, Bala, and everyone else for diving in with
critiques here. I'm a cofounder of Make Sunsets and want to clarify a few
things:
*Honesty: *
We have no desire to mislead anyone. If we make a mistake (which we will),
we'll correct it.
*Radiative Forcing:*
I didn't make
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