RE: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
Hmm, so it reported exactly half the number of buffers played relative to blocks downloaded and 32 bits per sample rather than the 16 in the blocks. Seems too much of a co-incidence to me. Could it be that the blocks each contain 16 bits of data and two blocks are joined to make a 32 bit "buffer"? > -Original Message- > From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On > Behalf Of RS > Sent: 08 August 2017 10:42 > To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > Subject: Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC > > >From: Jim web > >Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 09:29 > > >The first half dozen or so Proms I've recorded work fine. Occasional 'TLS' > >errors about packets of unexpected length which seem to have no effect > on > >the recorded audio. > > >Some later recordings (but not the 'Ella and Dizzy' Prom) have begun giving > >me 'HTTPS' errors which represent a missed chunk of audio data. I suspect > >this *is* an 'overloading' issue but can't tell. In general these ruin the > >recording for me in terms of listening, but are useful for analysis > >purposes. [1] > > For Prom 30 yesterday evening the 64 bit 31 July nightly build of VLC > reported under its Statistics tab > Lost 0 buffers > Discarded (corrupted) 0 > Dropped (discontinued) 0 > There was something not quite right because it reported 180094 blocks > Decoded and 90047 buffers Played when they should be the same after > subtracting Lost. It also reported 32 bits per sample when Mediainfo > correctly reported 16. Even so the figures are encouraging. > > Since the FLAC stream includes all the R3 output during the trial you can > test whether a recent nightly build of VLC gives you better results than > ffmpeg without risking loss of a Prom. Of course it will not simulate the > extra load during the Prom. > > Delay was 2min51s behind FM. > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
From: Jim web Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 09:29 The first half dozen or so Proms I've recorded work fine. Occasional 'TLS' errors about packets of unexpected length which seem to have no effect on the recorded audio. Some later recordings (but not the 'Ella and Dizzy' Prom) have begun giving me 'HTTPS' errors which represent a missed chunk of audio data. I suspect this *is* an 'overloading' issue but can't tell. In general these ruin the recording for me in terms of listening, but are useful for analysis purposes. [1] For Prom 30 yesterday evening the 64 bit 31 July nightly build of VLC reported under its Statistics tab Lost 0 buffers Discarded (corrupted) 0 Dropped (discontinued) 0 There was something not quite right because it reported 180094 blocks Decoded and 90047 buffers Played when they should be the same after subtracting Lost. It also reported 32 bits per sample when Mediainfo correctly reported 16. Even so the figures are encouraging. Since the FLAC stream includes all the R3 output during the trial you can test whether a recent nightly build of VLC gives you better results than ffmpeg without risking loss of a Prom. Of course it will not simulate the extra load during the Prom. Delay was 2min51s behind FM. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
In article , Vangelis forthnet wrote: > @jim web The longest recording of the R3 live flac stream I ever did > with my patched FFmpeg was 4 hour long; I did not witness any gaps; > judging from past GiP experience, loss of segments of an HLS/DASH stream > may happen when latency is introduced or some technical fault at the > server side (e.g. overload); so many factors come into play that it's > impossible to control everything on the client side; when your ffmpeg > errors out, what is the exact nature of the error and does it resume > recording afterwards? The first half dozen or so Proms I've recorded work fine. Occasional 'TLS' errors about packets of unexpected length which seem to have no effect on the recorded audio. Some later recordings (but not the 'Ella and Dizzy' Prom) have begun giving me 'HTTPS' errors which represent a missed chunk of audio data. I suspect this *is* an 'overloading' issue but can't tell. In general these ruin the recording for me in terms of listening, but are useful for analysis purposes. [1] I run an ffmpeg command in a terminal window so I can watch for errors, etc, as things get saved to files. The 'freeze' shows as the last printed line ceases to change. Normally it updates every 4sec or so, refrehsting the value of the amount recorded. That ceases, but no error is issued. It just 'waits' Normally pressing 'q' tells ffmpeg to quit. But that doesn't work when the above freezes occur. Either a ctrl-C or forcing the terminal window to close is needed. The resulting file (mkv) then needs a 'cleaning' pass though ffmpeg to play correctly. I guess that the connection just gets 'lost' and ffpeg sits and waits for something that never arrives. I'm using the specific built and patched version of ffmpeg as described in the past for the original tests which were run some time before the proms. Jim [1] Although in practice I'm currently more occupied with writing more on the 1980s for http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html than analysing the recordings! Anyone of a nervous disposition should be warned in advance that photos of events like me in a grass skirt lurk within... 8-] I'll get back to serious analysis after the proms. -- Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
People, people... When I first mentioned VLC-3.0.0-git (Nightly) as a means of recording the R3 flac MPEG-DASH stream, it was never my intention to contribute to the creation of a protracted OT thread; my references to VLC were terse on purpose and assumed some user familiarity; even if that wasn't the case, VLC has online documentation http://www.videolan.org/support/ wiki https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:VLC_for_dummies https://wiki.videolan.org/Knowledge_Base forum https://forum.videolan.org/ and user mailing list: https://mailman.videolan.org/listinfo/vlc Any more niche queries can be usually answered by searching specialised fora like videohelp, doom9, hydrogenaudio etc. @Richard (and possibly others): Yes, you need to preconfigure your VLC recordings directory prior to starting a stream recording (any stream); never mind setting a recording filename, VLC can work its way creating meaningful unique filenames with timestamps (e.g. vlc-record-2017-08-06-22h38m21s-Radio 3 lossless-.ogg). VLC Nightly issues: Just a WORD OF CAUTION for those having an installed VLC 2.2.x copy on Windows: the default/user settings of VLC are stored in %APPDATA%\vlc ; you'd better make a backup of that dir prior to executing VLC 3.0.0-git; 2.2.x vs 3.0.0 settings are not fully interchangeable; 3.0.0-git version, even when run from an unzipped package (like Richard did) will still write on %APPDATA%\ and overwrite 2.2.x's settings. As I'm on a 32bit OS, I have always used the win32.7z packages of nightly and never had any issues opening the "Media -> Open Network Stream" popup and pasting a URL there... ogg recording playback issues: As Jim has said, the whole technique of streaming FLAC encoded audio data via MPEG-DASH (FLAC encapsulation inside the MP4 container and creation of a segmented mp4 stream) is still quite experimental; as such, recording of that stream by VLC is even more so... Playback of the recorded .ogg file is supported by VLC 3 itself, BUT NOT by previous VLC versions. A few other software players also do, like latest PotPlayer (released and beta versions) and the released (1.7.13) and beta (1.7.13.60) versions of MPC-HC (which uses the FFmpeg based LAV Filters); MPC-BE will start to play the file, but will crash towards the end of the recording. .ogg recording extracting issues: I had already mentioned these towards the end of previous post: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html Please understand that the RAW flac stream inside the OGG container is the product of concatenation of successive DASH segments, so not really a proper flac stream; the whole situation is similar to iso6 mp4 files created by dash stream dumping; these are not standard mp4 files, and in the case of GiP ffmpeg is needed to remux them properly into a standard MP4 variant palatable to most (soft|hard)ware MP4 players. Perhaps in the not so far future, ffmpeg will be patched to losslessly extract this dash-flac ES from a container, for the moment though it's necessary to losslessly recode to flac to make this possible (and reduce FFmpeg verbosity to -v 8 to remove all the DTS warnings...). BTW, my command ffmpeg -v 8 -stats -i "vlc-record-2017-08-03-01h36m18s-Radio 3 lossless-.ogg" -vn -c:a flac "Radio 3 lossless.flac" is in essence identical to RS's ffmpeg -i=.ogg -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac as "-f flac -sample_fmt=s16" forces ffmpeg to use the flac encoder @all: For the nth time, the BBC DO NOT PROVIDE R3 AOD as lossless flac encodes, certainly not in their browser embedded DASH player (Flash is unsuitable for the task); hence no FLAC is retrievable via GiP! It is pure speculation (at best, very premature... ) to discuss now what will happen in the future... Audacity has come up in the past in this list (I think't was CJB who suggested it for audio recordings on-the-fly). Audacity and many other so-called audio recorders (I occasionally use mp3DirectCut) are acting as man-in-the-middle and making use of the so-called "analog loop(hole)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole as detailed by Richard in http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010979.html VLC-3.0.0 (and patched FFmpeg) will produce digital clones of the flac stream. @Paul Thornett You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I can't find personally any justification for your overall aversion to VLC; I think it's a hugely versatile Audio-Video open-source application, that has saved the day for me on countless occasions... And please, can you refrain from discussing BBC geo-blocking circumvention methods in this list? The list maintainer has explicitly stated in the past that such topics are not tolerated here... (And as you've discovered yourself, the beeb are on a constant battle blacklisting many of these methods...). FWIW, the test R3 live flac stream is not geo-filtered, can be accessed DIRECT... Enjoy it while you (and I) can, because if it ever makes it into a standard R3
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
The 320kbps AAC streams started this way, first R3 live as a trial then R3 catchup then it spread to all stations. I'm hopeful that lossless will follow the same progression. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:40, RS wrote: >> From: Paul Thornett >> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 16:50 > > >> You are, of course, absolutely right. Except that right-clicking >> produces 96k rather than 320k. > > The good news is that the FLAC streams are not geo-blocked (or so Vangelis > says in this message.) > http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html > > You don’t have to wait for a Prom to try. All R3 output during the trial > period is included. Load > http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/radio-3-concert-sound2 > into Firefox. To record it follow the instructions in Vangelis's message. > >> But, really, how astonishing. Why on earth didn't the BBC go the whole >> hog and allow the lossless music to be stored for 30 days? > > You'll have to ask the BBC. > > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
From: Paul Thornett Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 16:50 You are, of course, absolutely right. Except that right-clicking produces 96k rather than 320k. The good news is that the FLAC streams are not geo-blocked (or so Vangelis says in this message.) http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html You don’t have to wait for a Prom to try. All R3 output during the trial period is included. Load http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/radio-3-concert-sound2 into Firefox. To record it follow the instructions in Vangelis's message. But, really, how astonishing. Why on earth didn't the BBC go the whole hog and allow the lossless music to be stored for 30 days? You'll have to ask the BBC. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
In article , Paul Thornett wrote: > But, really, how astonishing. Why on earth didn't the BBC go the whole > hog and allow the lossless music to be stored for 30 days? This is another 'test' in official terms.They are assessing the ways it can be done, how much would increase the loads on their systems, what demand there may be, what user reactions are, etc. Along the way they are probably tweaking and trying to find what works best in terms of the serving details. Although no-one has explcitly said it to me, it is implicit that this test will end and *then* someone will decide when and *if* to make it standard. If - as I hope - it becomes available as 'standard' then it is likely that it will duly be spread to 'on demand'. But at present its essentially being done for test and evaluation purposes. The Proms are probably useful as a time of relatively high demand for R3. Jim -- Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
> If Paul Thornett right clicks on the Radio iPlayer, or whatever it is called > now, it will tell him the bit rate. It will be 320kbit/s unless he has a > slow connection or is suffering from geo-blocking. You are, of course, absolutely right. Except that right-clicking produces 96k rather than 320k. This surprises me as I'm not usually the victim of geo-blocking (I use a DNS trick) - attested to by the fact I use GIP all the time and experience no restrictions. Latest update: yes, apparently my DNS provider acknowledges there is indeed a problem which they are working on, so that presumably explains the 96k. But, really, how astonishing. Why on earth didn't the BBC go the whole hog and allow the lossless music to be stored for 30 days? If anyone mentions a lack of space, then please try to explain why the GIP --streaminfo parameter run against, say, "I know who you are" (episode 8) produces literally dozens of alternative streams for this 1 program. Regards, Paul Thornett On 7 August 2017 at 00:04, RS wrote: >> From: Jim web >> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:18 > > >> In article >> , Paul >> Thornett wrote: > > >>> Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site (nothing >>> to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since the Proms >> >> >started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live stream is >> >impractical given the time difference). > > >> >MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of >> >44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. > > >> Since the BBC will be using 48k for the standard streams (ignoring >> 'podcasts') that alerts you to "MediaInfo" reporting something which has >> been converted after reception. > > >> 1411 kb/s is the LPCM rate for stereo 44.1k/16bit. > > >>> If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same >>> results from MediaInfo, > > >> if you do, something in your system *prior* to "MediaInfo" is farting >> about >> with the audio and changing the sample rate. > > > If Paul Thornett right clicks on the Radio iPlayer, or whatever it is called > now, it will tell him the bit rate. It will be 320kbit/s unless he has a > slow connection or is suffering from geo-blocking. > > He is not making a digital recording. The digital to analogue converter in > his sound card is feeding an analogue signal to his speakers and Audacity is > taking that analogue signal and converting it to digital. As you point > out, the stream from the BBC has a sample rate of 48kHz. Audacity’s default > sample rate is 44.1kHz, which is where that sample rate comes from. The > additional quantisation noise from re-sampling is small. Far greater > distortion is introduced by the digital to analogue and then analogue to > digital conversions. > > Better quality will be achieved by using get_iplayer to download the > streams, even at 128kbit/s. get_iplayer offers AAC at a range of bit rates > up to 320kbit/s. get_iplayer will not deliver the FLAC streams. If he > wants FLAC from the PROMs he will have to get up in the early hours of the > morning, but as you have pointed out all R3 output is available live (or > delayed 2 minutes or so) as FLAC during the trial. > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
From: Jim web Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:18 In article , Paul Thornett wrote: Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site (nothing to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since the Proms >started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live stream is >impractical given the time difference). >MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of >44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. Since the BBC will be using 48k for the standard streams (ignoring 'podcasts') that alerts you to "MediaInfo" reporting something which has been converted after reception. 1411 kb/s is the LPCM rate for stereo 44.1k/16bit. If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same results from MediaInfo, if you do, something in your system *prior* to "MediaInfo" is farting about with the audio and changing the sample rate. If Paul Thornett right clicks on the Radio iPlayer, or whatever it is called now, it will tell him the bit rate. It will be 320kbit/s unless he has a slow connection or is suffering from geo-blocking. He is not making a digital recording. The digital to analogue converter in his sound card is feeding an analogue signal to his speakers and Audacity is taking that analogue signal and converting it to digital. As you point out, the stream from the BBC has a sample rate of 48kHz. Audacity’s default sample rate is 44.1kHz, which is where that sample rate comes from. The additional quantisation noise from re-sampling is small. Far greater distortion is introduced by the digital to analogue and then analogue to digital conversions. Better quality will be achieved by using get_iplayer to download the streams, even at 128kbit/s. get_iplayer offers AAC at a range of bit rates up to 320kbit/s. get_iplayer will not deliver the FLAC streams. If he wants FLAC from the PROMs he will have to get up in the early hours of the morning, but as you have pointed out all R3 output is available live (or delayed 2 minutes or so) as FLAC during the trial. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
The live stream is 48KHz 16bits. If you are recording 44.1KHz then a sample rate conversion is being performed somewhere. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK On 6 Aug 2017, at 12:06, Paul Thornett wrote: >> R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days > >>> I don't think that is right. > > Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site > (nothing to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since > the Proms started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live > stream is impractical given the time difference). > > MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of > 44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. > > If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same > results from MediaInfo, > > That convinces me. > Regards, > > Paul Thornett > > > On 6 August 2017 at 20:50, RS wrote: >>> From: d.l...@surrey.ac.uk >>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:02 >> >> >>> " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 >>> days" >> >> >> I don't think that is right. >> >>> I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC >>> lossless stream using gip? >> >> >> You can't do it with GiP. >> >> You have a choice of using a recent nightly build of VLC as Vangelis >> explains in >> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html >> and the other messages in the thread, or a special version of ffmpeg as Jim >> explained in April. Vangelis gives a link to Jim's article. In either case >> you can record the live stream, which includes all R3 output during the >> Proms trial period. >> >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
FLAC is for the live stream only, there is no lossless catchup. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 6 Aug 2017, at 10:02, wrote: > > " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days" > > I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC lossless > stream using gip? > > Thanks > > David > > -Original Message- > From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf > Of Paul Thornett > Sent: 06 August 2017 04:15 > To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > Subject: Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC > > I don't understand why anyone would choose to use VLC to record the BBC > streams. VLC is clunky, difficult to get working and arcane. Its interface is > really awful. > > Simply download Audacity (which is free), and use its record button when your > stream starts. The only trickiness is at the end when you don't save the > audio output, instead you export it to a file of your choice. Audacity > exports my files as WAV, but you can as easily get it to use FLAC if you > prefer. > > And I assume you know that you don't have to record the concert live, as all > R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days. > Regards, > > Paul Thornett > > >> On 6 August 2017 at 02:30, RS wrote: >> A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC >> streams using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to >> play the recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? >> >> I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on >> my PC are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it >> defeats the object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. >> >> If I try to play it with VLC v2.2.6 (Umbrella) there is silence. The >> Statistics tab shows the same number of lost buffers as decoded blocks >> and 0 played buffers. The SanDisk Clip Jam claims to be able to play >> FLAC, although there is a warning on the web site that the v1.12 >> firmware is needed. It plays the Hallelujah.flac test file from The >> Sixteen (and it used to play it with the v1.10 firmware) but it will >> not play the BBC FLAC recording. It displays, "Unsupported file format". >> >> It is in an OGG container. I tried using ffmpeg v3.2.4 with >> -acodec=copy to remultiplex it to a FLAC container. I got an error >> message Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec >> parameters ?): >> Invalid data found when processing input >> >> I then tried converting the FLAC in an OGG container to FLAC in a FLAC >> container. I got a huge number of error messages of the form >> [flac@04fdc8a0] Application provided invalid, non monotonically >> increasing dts to muxer in stream 0: 122872320 >= 122867712 I thought >> something had gone wrong so I stopped it. I then noticed the output >> file size was not zero, but about 5MByte. I discovered I could play >> it and it was about 42s long. I then let the conversion run to completion. >> I got a final error message >> Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid argument followed by the >> usual size, time, bit rate and speed indications. >> >> I found the output file was complete and I could play it in VLC v2.2.6 >> and the SanDisk Clip Jam. >> >> The command I used for the conversion was ffmpeg -i=.ogg >> -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac >> >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
In article , Paul Thornett wrote: > And I assume you know that you don't have to record the concert live, as > all R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for > 30 days. IIUC that is incorrect. At present flac is only being used for a *live* R3 stream. The 'on demand' will provide aac 320k as the highest quality. Not lossless. Jim -- Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
In article , Paul Thornett wrote: > Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site (nothing > to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since the Proms > started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live stream is > impractical given the time difference). > MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of > 44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. Since the BBC will be using 48k for the standard streams (ignoring 'podcasts') that alerts you to "MediaInfo" reporting something which has been converted after reception. 1411 kb/s is the LPCM rate for stereo 44.1k/16bit. > If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same > results from MediaInfo, if you do, something in your system *prior* to "MediaInfo" is farting about with the audio and changing the sample rate. Jim -- Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
> R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days >> I don't think that is right. Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site (nothing to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since the Proms started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live stream is impractical given the time difference). MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same results from MediaInfo, That convinces me. Regards, Paul Thornett On 6 August 2017 at 20:50, RS wrote: >> From: d.l...@surrey.ac.uk >> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:02 > > >> " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 >> days" > > > I don't think that is right. > >> I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC >> lossless stream using gip? > > > You can't do it with GiP. > > You have a choice of using a recent nightly build of VLC as Vangelis > explains in > http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html > and the other messages in the thread, or a special version of ffmpeg as Jim > explained in April. Vangelis gives a link to Jim's article. In either case > you can record the live stream, which includes all R3 output during the > Proms trial period. > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
From: d.l...@surrey.ac.uk Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:02 " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days" I don't think that is right. I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC lossless stream using gip? You can't do it with GiP. You have a choice of using a recent nightly build of VLC as Vangelis explains in http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html and the other messages in the thread, or a special version of ffmpeg as Jim explained in April. Vangelis gives a link to Jim's article. In either case you can record the live stream, which includes all R3 output during the Proms trial period. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
From: Jim web Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 09:56 I've had similar behaviour on occasion from using a version of ffmpeg to record the stream into an mkv container. The solution may be to try using ffmpeg -i inputfile -acodec copy outputfile as that tends to 'tidy up' things. Doesn't always work, but worth a try. Thanks for the suggestion. I did try that, which would have had the effect of tidying up or replacing the container while leaving the content unchanged. It was not enough. There were still problems with the FLAC content which prevented it from playing even in VLC v2.2.6. I had to use ffmpeg with -f=flac to tidy up the FLAC content. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
" R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days" I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC lossless stream using gip? Thanks David -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Paul Thornett Sent: 06 August 2017 04:15 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC I don't understand why anyone would choose to use VLC to record the BBC streams. VLC is clunky, difficult to get working and arcane. Its interface is really awful. Simply download Audacity (which is free), and use its record button when your stream starts. The only trickiness is at the end when you don't save the audio output, instead you export it to a file of your choice. Audacity exports my files as WAV, but you can as easily get it to use FLAC if you prefer. And I assume you know that you don't have to record the concert live, as all R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days. Regards, Paul Thornett On 6 August 2017 at 02:30, RS wrote: > A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC > streams using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to > play the recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? > > I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on > my PC are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it > defeats the object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. > > If I try to play it with VLC v2.2.6 (Umbrella) there is silence. The > Statistics tab shows the same number of lost buffers as decoded blocks > and 0 played buffers. The SanDisk Clip Jam claims to be able to play > FLAC, although there is a warning on the web site that the v1.12 > firmware is needed. It plays the Hallelujah.flac test file from The > Sixteen (and it used to play it with the v1.10 firmware) but it will > not play the BBC FLAC recording. It displays, "Unsupported file format". > > It is in an OGG container. I tried using ffmpeg v3.2.4 with > -acodec=copy to remultiplex it to a FLAC container. I got an error > message Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec parameters > ?): > Invalid data found when processing input > > I then tried converting the FLAC in an OGG container to FLAC in a FLAC > container. I got a huge number of error messages of the form > [flac@04fdc8a0] Application provided invalid, non monotonically > increasing dts to muxer in stream 0: 122872320 >= 122867712 I thought > something had gone wrong so I stopped it. I then noticed the output > file size was not zero, but about 5MByte. I discovered I could play > it and it was about 42s long. I then let the conversion run to completion. > I got a final error message > Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid argument followed by the > usual size, time, bit rate and speed indications. > > I found the output file was complete and I could play it in VLC v2.2.6 > and the SanDisk Clip Jam. > > The command I used for the conversion was ffmpeg -i=.ogg > -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
In article <8DBBF7B33EED43B8811FF58447A3073B@RJCDESK>, RS wrote: > A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC > streams using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to > play the recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? > I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on > my PC are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it > defeats the object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. I've had similar behaviour on occasion from using a version of ffmpeg to record the stream into an mkv container. The solution may be to try using ffmpeg -i inputfile -acodec copy outputfile as that tends to 'tidy up' things. Doesn't always work, but worth a try. Had to do this a few days ago when the connection 'got forgotten' by the server leaving ffmpeg hanging. Needed a ctrl-C to stop, and the result wouldn't play until I ran it though the above. Taking this further OT... I'd be interested to know: 1) if others have sometimes had 'gaps' in the recording which are here associated with ffmpeg reporting an HTTPS error. (Essentially a segment goes awol) 2) What delays they get. Here the order of 2 mins behind FM seems typical. I'm hoping all of this will *become* relevant because flac becomes standard and gip can then fetch it. :-) Jim -- Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
I don't understand why anyone would choose to use VLC to record the BBC streams. VLC is clunky, difficult to get working and arcane. Its interface is really awful. Simply download Audacity (which is free), and use its record button when your stream starts. The only trickiness is at the end when you don't save the audio output, instead you export it to a file of your choice. Audacity exports my files as WAV, but you can as easily get it to use FLAC if you prefer. And I assume you know that you don't have to record the concert live, as all R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days. Regards, Paul Thornett On 6 August 2017 at 02:30, RS wrote: > A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC streams > using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to play the > recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? > > I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on my PC > are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it defeats the > object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. > > If I try to play it with VLC v2.2.6 (Umbrella) there is silence. The > Statistics tab shows the same number of lost buffers as decoded blocks and 0 > played buffers. The SanDisk Clip Jam claims to be able to play FLAC, > although there is a warning on the web site that the v1.12 firmware is > needed. It plays the Hallelujah.flac test file from The Sixteen (and it > used to play it with the v1.10 firmware) but it will not play the BBC FLAC > recording. It displays, "Unsupported file format". > > It is in an OGG container. I tried using ffmpeg v3.2.4 with -acodec=copy to > remultiplex it to a FLAC container. I got an error message > Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec parameters ?): > Invalid data found when processing input > > I then tried converting the FLAC in an OGG container to FLAC in a FLAC > container. I got a huge number of error messages of the form > [flac@04fdc8a0] Application provided invalid, non monotonically increasing > dts to muxer in stream 0: 122872320 >= 122867712 > I thought something had gone wrong so I stopped it. I then noticed the > output file size was not zero, but about 5MByte. I discovered I could play > it and it was about 42s long. I then let the conversion run to completion. > I got a final error message > Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid argument > followed by the usual size, time, bit rate and speed indications. > > I found the output file was complete and I could play it in VLC v2.2.6 and > the SanDisk Clip Jam. > > The command I used for the conversion was > ffmpeg -i=.ogg -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC streams using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to play the recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on my PC are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it defeats the object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. If I try to play it with VLC v2.2.6 (Umbrella) there is silence. The Statistics tab shows the same number of lost buffers as decoded blocks and 0 played buffers. The SanDisk Clip Jam claims to be able to play FLAC, although there is a warning on the web site that the v1.12 firmware is needed. It plays the Hallelujah.flac test file from The Sixteen (and it used to play it with the v1.10 firmware) but it will not play the BBC FLAC recording. It displays, "Unsupported file format". It is in an OGG container. I tried using ffmpeg v3.2.4 with -acodec=copy to remultiplex it to a FLAC container. I got an error message Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec parameters ?): Invalid data found when processing input I then tried converting the FLAC in an OGG container to FLAC in a FLAC container. I got a huge number of error messages of the form [flac@04fdc8a0] Application provided invalid, non monotonically increasing dts to muxer in stream 0: 122872320 >= 122867712 I thought something had gone wrong so I stopped it. I then noticed the output file size was not zero, but about 5MByte. I discovered I could play it and it was about 42s long. I then let the conversion run to completion. I got a final error message Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid argument followed by the usual size, time, bit rate and speed indications. I found the output file was complete and I could play it in VLC v2.2.6 and the SanDisk Clip Jam. The command I used for the conversion was ffmpeg -i=.ogg -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
