Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Hi, If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Cheers, Dave. Tom Mraz wrote: FYI (multiple keybindings per menu action in GTK+). As I see it will be implemented in GTK+ 2.4 I vote for leaving the current redo keybinding as is and wait for GTK+ 2.4 with the change. Tom Mraz Original Message Subject: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123647 Changed by [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- shadow/123647 Wed Oct 1 13:49:47 2003 +++ shadow/123647.tmp.32485 Wed Oct 1 17:09:22 2003 @@ -1,13 +1,13 @@ Bug#: 123647 Product: gtk+ Version: 2.2.x OS: Linux OS Details: -Status: NEW -Resolution: +Status: RESOLVED +Resolution: FIXED Severity: enhancement Priority: Normal Component: gtk AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TargetMilestone: --- @@ -16,6 +16,10 @@ It should be possible to attach additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries. It would be a very useful functionality for backward (or another app) compatibility. + +--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-10-01 17:09 --- +This will be possible in 2.4 using accelerator elements with the new +GtkUIManager. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. By the way, I just noticed that the nice GTK+ mail reader that I am using (sylpheed) uses Ctrl-Y as a Redo shortcut. ;-) -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Raphaël Quinet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. Please do. There is an overwhelming precedence of the usage of CTRL-R for Undo. It has a large Userbase and is quite popular. It is The GIMP 1.2. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Redo shortcut
On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:25:49PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, I wonder when and why the terminology of hardcoding a keybinding was introduced into this discussion. I simply don't understand it's meaning. If you think about having two different keybindings bound to a single menu entry, this is AFAIK not possible with GTK+-2.x. And I can't think of any other sensible way of adding a second keybinding. Well, maybe it's not a sensible way, but you could create another menu entry, somewhere in stupid-quirks/ submenu :-) I prefer Ctrl-R, btw ;- -- Jaroslav Benkovsky Senior System Administrator NEXTRA Czech Republic s.r.o., http://www.nextra.cz V Celnici 10 / CZ - 117 21 Praha 1 / Czech Republic Tel: +420-296 355-111 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] see Disclaimer http://www.nextra.cz/disclaimer/ GCM/IT d- s:+ a- C++(+++) ULOI$ P++ L+++ E+ W++ N w--- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP R+ tv- b+++ D+ e+++ y+ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:03:02AM +0200, Simon Budig wrote: If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. Please do. There is an overwhelming precedence of the usage of CTRL-R for Undo. It has a large Userbase and is quite popular. It is The GIMP 1.2. I would not change the shortcut if it will be changed with GTK 2.4 anyway. Just stick with CTRL-R. This way, we can later provide an alternative more sane extra shortcut using GTK 2.4. Bye, Tino -- * LINUX - Where do you want to be tomorrow? * http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Hi, Raphal Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut. BTW, as Guillermo already pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tino Schwarze) writes: I would not change the shortcut if it will be changed with GTK 2.4 anyway. Just stick with CTRL-R. This way, we can later provide an alternative more sane extra shortcut using GTK 2.4. I don't think we ever want a second shortcut for anything. We should settle on a good default now. Since the HIG people seem willing to change their mind on Shift-Ctrl-Z because of the obvious ergonomic problems of this keybinding, we can decide now if we want Ctrl-R or Ctrl-Y. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] When will we branch CVS gimp-2-0?
Raphaël Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to the roadmap proposed a few weeks ago, we should be in feature freeze and we should have released 2.0rc1 by now. Also, the old web site was supposed to be replaced by the new one in order to be prepared to support the new release. None of this has happened: new features are still being implemented (e.g., the nice tool presets added yesterday), This is not a new feature, persistant tool options have been there for a long time. The functionality of the save and load buttons just needed to do something actually useful, that's what I did, finishing an existing feature to avoid shipping loose end. This will definitely happen some more times before 2.0 is out. we are planning for 1.3.21 soon (not ready for 2.0rc1 yet) We cannot make a 2.0 release candidate until libgimp is API frozen. Apart from that, current CVS is more stable and more consistent than it was at the time we released 1.2, so actually we could release 2.0 at any time. and the web site hasn't been moved. You know my opinion about this. This is not a real problem because this is usual in Free Software projects and there are be good reasons for these delays: a 1.3.21 release would be really useful to test the latest bug fixes. I totally agree and still wonder why we still have that old website. While we have good reasons to delay 2.0 release candidates, I fail to see a single reason for further web site moving delays. But if we still want to keep the goal of releasing 2.0 before next year, As I said above, I don't see a reason why we should not be able to do this. then it would be useful to revive the idea of the feature freeze. One way to do that would be to create a branch for 2.0 (like what was done for gimp-1-2) and say that only bug fixes can be done on that branch. Being forced to move away from CVS HEAD would probably change the way we consider the code for 2.0, and discourage the addition of new features which may be very nice and useful, but go against the feature freeze. Nothing went against the freeze. See above. I suggest to create that branch immediately after the 1.3.21 release. What do you think? No. ciao, --mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: Raphaël Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut. Agreed. BTW, as Guillermo already pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these. Also agreed :) Does anyone have a complete list of these other clashing shortcuts, or does someone need to draw it up? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Will you excuse me...but ..what CTRL-Y has to with REDO alltogether? CTRL + R - R is the first letter in REDO. SHIFT + CTRl + Z - Shift acts as amodifier to the CTRL + Z UNDO. CTRl + X - Stays next to Z and allows for fat toggling as has been argued. But... CTRL-Y? Why not just stick with CTRL+R? Maybe to pick the worst of both worlds? (Non standard shortcut + non mnemonic + change from GIMP 1.2 + Have to use both hands to press) Please CTRL+R for REDO, and for California Gov.! Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, Raphal Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R. Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R. Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut. BTW, as Guillermo already pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:19:11 -0300, Joao S. O. Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will you excuse me...but ..what CTRL-Y has to with REDO alltogether? For better or worse, Ctrl-Y is the most frequently used shortcut for Redo. CTRL-Y? Why not just stick with CTRL+R? Maybe to pick the worst of both worlds? (Non standard shortcut + non mnemonic + change from GIMP 1.2 + Have to use both hands to press) Ctrl-Y is the shortcut used by most Windows applications (except for Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, using Ctrl-Shift-Z and Ctrl-Alt-Z) so it is likely that most users will already be know it. If we consider the applications for Linux or UNIX-like systems, then we find Mozilla that is also using Ctrl-Y. I discovered several others in the meantime, such as the mail client that I am using right now (sylpheed). As I have argued earlier, we should try to promote consistency with other applications whenever possible, because the majority of GIMP users are not using the GIMP frequently and it will be easier for them to remember shortcuts (or any other way to perform a given task) if they can re-use their knowledge from other applications. This is more important than trying to keep the same shortcuts as in previous versions of the GIMP, especially because the experienced users like you and me can rebind them easily. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] When will we branch CVS gimp-2-0?
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:32:28 +0200, Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Raphaël Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: we are planning for 1.3.21 soon (not ready for 2.0rc1 yet) We cannot make a 2.0 release candidate until libgimp is API frozen. Apart from that, current CVS is more stable and more consistent than it was at the time we released 1.2, so actually we could release 2.0 at any time. Yes, both of these are good points. and the web site hasn't been moved. You know my opinion about this. [...] I totally agree and still wonder why we still have that old website. While we have good reasons to delay 2.0 release candidates, I fail to see a single reason for further web site moving delays. Yes. The site should move as soon as possible. The remaining problems with the new site have been fixed more than a week ago, and the gimp-web team has been waiting since then for the site to be moved. I suggest to create that branch immediately after the 1.3.21 release. What do you think? No. OK. It makes more sense to create that branch once 2.0 is released. I just wanted to know what you would think about creating a branch earlier. While this could be a good idea for a larger project with more resources, this seems to be a stupid idea of the GIMP. Thanks for your feedback. ;-) -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries]
Hi, Raphal Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ctrl-Y is the shortcut used by most Windows applications (except for Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, using Ctrl-Shift-Z and Ctrl-Alt-Z) As far as I understood, Photoshop uses Ctrl-Z for redo. Actually a redo in PS is just an undo of the previous undo step. Ctrl-Shift-Z gives access to earlier Undo steps but it's not actually a Redo action. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] When will we branch CVS gimp-2-0?
Michael Natterer wrote: I totally agree and still wonder why we still have that old website. While we have good reasons to delay 2.0 release candidates, I fail to see a single reason for further web site moving delays. I never use gimp-1.2 anymore. Consider the lack of good reasons to move it, perhaps. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: web site (was: [Gimp-developer] When will we branch CVS gimp-2-0?)
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:24:12 -0400, Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Natterer wrote: I totally agree and still wonder why we still have that old website. While we have good reasons to delay 2.0 release candidates, I fail to see a single reason for further web site moving delays. I never use gimp-1.2 anymore. Consider the lack of good reasons to move it, perhaps. Carol, please stop trying to kill the new web site. Version 1.2.5 of the GIMP, released in mid-June this year, is the current stable release. The majority of GIMP users are using 1.2.5 or an earlier version. They need a good web site that can help them to get the most of this application. Now that most of the contents from the old web site have been moved to the new one, there is no reason to delay the official launch of the new web site. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Converting old plug-ins to wirk with gimp-1.3.20 (gimp-2)
On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 14:42, Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, Perhaps you want to contribute a short porting guide. Such a document should be included with the 1.3 API reference. Let me know if you are interested, I can give you a template that we can include in devel-docs/libgimp later. Now that I've successfully ported a simple plug-in (ellipse.c, the one that maps an image to a circular or elliptical window, not the selection), I can make an informed reply of yes, certainly. Please go ahead and send or point me to the template. -- Jeff ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
