Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Python with no ui? (external script)
Manish Singh wrote: By the way, I thought the batch mode only understood scheme, so it would make the whole thing even more complicated. One line of scheme to call your python script won't increase the complexity appreciably. The problem is that if i have huge lists and complex python objects in my external scripts, and i want to access them in the gimp's python-fu script, i have to pass them through scheme, and thus it means converting back and forth. I will try to adapt with pickle if it works. If you want something better, why don't you contribute it? I would make a mess, since i'm not really a good programmer (plus i don't know anything about gimp's internal structure or python's...). Ministeyr ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Python with no ui? (external script)
Carol Spears wrote: i asked because i put instructions of how to do this online. i have a crontab that runs gimp. that being said, it has been running for so long now, i have no idea what sort of mess it is making, but it was all so easy that it was a pleasure to put the instructions online. Well, i don't know if that is exactly what i meant, but i would still be grateful if you could give me the url to that document. Thanks. Ministeyr ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp
(As Carol mentioned the formattting in your mail was troublesome. I think maybe you need to change you line wrapping settings to less than 80 characters. Fortunately the email program I use can correct for that.) On Sat, 1 Apr 2006, Richard Reddy wrote: Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 00:42:46 -0500 From: Richard Reddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Subject: [Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp Greetings Developers, I've been using Photoshop since version 1 of Photostyler. Before that, I dreamed of digital images while using an 8086 PC and CGI graphics. Photoshop is a good application, but I feel a growing distaste for proprietary software. This is one answer to the question of why so many users want the GIMP to behave more like Adobe Photoshop, they do not dislike Photoshop but they do dislike the limitations of proprietary software. (People have asked and I think it is worth highlighting an opinion from a long term Photoshop user like you.) So, for 2006 my photography business migrates to the GNU/Linux box. I thought. A mutual friend, Richard Stallman, said I should run them by you, so here you are. Does he still pronounce the SLASH in GNU/Linux? 1. A browser just like Photoshop. Gimp 1.0 had a built in browser called GUASH but (if I recall correctly) there were so many better thumbnail browsers out there and GUASH wasn't getting a whole lot of maintainance love and the integration benefits were minimal. No, better not. The browser is junk--very clunky and hungry for system resources. Okay ... so maybe it the current stategy is a good idea then. CS browser is just one of those flat-file Microsoft thingies. Why not incorporate a real relational database? So, my suggestion is to dramatically improve workflow by developing a MySQL database companion for Gimp, that allows users to search and sort large image databases like mine (30,000 digital images). Images could be tagged while they are being processed, or batch tagged. Interesting idea. I suspect you would need to sponsor a developer if you really wanted it to happen though. As director of photography for North American Women's Baseball League (NAWBL), I know that searching and sorting images can be very time-consuming work. Using Gimp you could automatically transfer image metadata to tags. It would be very useful to do a search involving all the images shot at f/2.8 or f/4.0? All the photos shot with a particular lens. All the photos shot at ISO 100, or ISO 800. Photos of Programs like Bibble Pro, Aperture (from Apple) and Adobe Lightroom sound better suited to these tasks of batch processing sets of photos and RAW files. These are seperate and distinct programs from the likes of Adobe Photoshop, Corel Paint, and Macromedia Fireworks. I wonder if trying to shoehorn even more functionality into the GIMP in a clean and organised way is really managable. Such a database could be great learning tool for spirited amateurs. Incidentally are you familiar with Photo.net? in the browser. Adobe cannot afford to package a powerful database engine, because they would be paying license fees! I'm pretty sure Adobe could use MySQL just as easily as they already use Python. 2. The much talked about user interface. Nobody will agree on one, any more than they agree on the ten best photographs. Why not have configuration options, that you could test, and pick a design you like? The cost of offering more interface and configuration options is maintainance. It is more than twice as much work to maintain two inferfaces. Just look at how upset some people have been getting over the differences between the GNU Image Manipulation program and GIMPShop (and previously Cinepaint). Gimp looks pretty good on Fedora 5--because Fedora 5 has a beautiful design for the desktop. Reminds me of Japanese art. So, this suggestion is just to provide different skins--as many as people care to develop or download. There are groups already interested in providing themes for GTK and Gnome applications. This doesn't usually happen within the developement of the GNU Image manipulation program. (I would be interested to see a fully featured theme with dark widgets like those which are so popular in 3D software and high end video production.) In response to your comments about one size not fitting all: I dont use multiple desktops, ever. Your suggestions about making even more use of mulitlple desktops sounds complicated. It's a bitch to port MySQL and ODBC to windoze, in conjunction with a I'd be surprised if it wasn't already there. MySQL database feature. Power is leveraged, by utilizing system leveraged utilizing where is Dave Neary :P (It is an in joke, dont worry about it.) Having said all this, I prefer working with film. :-) Hope my suggestions are not too impractical. With interested developers, time and resources they sound possible. Otherwise they
Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface for the GIMP
Roland Wild wrote: From: http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/index2.html Appearance of the layer an channels window ''onmouseover''. Another solution is that you could just have some special key (to set up in the preferences) to pop up the minimized windows. For example you keep only the main toolbox and the image window above all, the other windows minimized (or in the background), and when you press ctrl it shows the tools options and the layers/channels window, in the exact position you left them before minimization, but above the image window. Then you just have to configure your tools or change your working layer, and when you release ctrl, those windows just get back to where they were before (minimized or in the background). Alternatively you could have the key toggle the displaying or not of those windows (instead of having to keep the key pressed, this is more suited for other keys, like the letters). Ministeyr ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 14:34:45 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] CS browser is just one of those flat-file Microsoft thingies. Why not incorporate a real relational database? So, my suggestion is to dramatically improve workflow by developing a MySQL database companion for Gimp, that allows users to search and sort large image databases like mine (30,000 digital images). Images could be tagged while they are being processed, or batch tagged. Interesting idea. I suspect you would need to sponsor a developer if you really wanted it to happen though. As director of photography for North American Women's Baseball League (NAWBL), I know that searching and sorting images can be very time-consuming work. Using Gimp you could automatically transfer image metadata to tags. It would be very useful to do a search involving all the images shot at f/2.8 or f/4.0? All the photos shot with a particular lens. All the photos shot at ISO 100, or ISO 800. Photos of Programs like Bibble Pro, Aperture (from Apple) and Adobe Lightroom sound better suited to these tasks of batch processing sets of photos and RAW files. These are seperate and distinct programs from the likes of Adobe Photoshop, Corel Paint, and Macromedia Fireworks. I wonder if trying to shoehorn even more functionality into the GIMP in a clean and organised way is really managable. Check out KPhotoAlbum (http://ktown.kde.org/kphotoalbum/), which previously was named KimDaBa (KDE Image Database). It uses an XML file rather than a relational database for its back end storage, but it has this kind of search capability (including user tagging, date ranges, and EXIF data in the current pre-release snapshot, via SQLite). It's very fast. I have about 12,000 images and there's very little delay on just about any operation. There has been some discussion about using an RDBMS backend for storage vs. the XML backend. My own calculations suggest that at least up to 50,000 or so images there's no need for anything more elaborate, and there are significant advantages to the textual XML storage. That said, merging image storage with image manipulation doesn't feel quite right to me. KPhotoAlbum was designed for one purpose -- to maintain large collections of images with excellent search capability. The GIMP is also designed for one purpose -- to create and edit images. These two functions seem completely orthogonal to me. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] LGM 2nd Edition - discussion going on
Hi, I just want to let know the GIMP's devels that we are currently gathering ideas about the next edition of LGM here http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/create/2006-March/000378.html and following posts. There is also a nice article from Peter Linnel at http://www.scribus.net/index.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=115 for all that could not attend! AFAIK, it was suggested we settle on the host city around mid-april. So please, let yourself hear! It was a *real* pleasure for me to meet people from the GIMP's crew in Lyon! Hope to meet you again next year! Cheers! Louis Desjardins [Scribus] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Python with no ui? (external script)
On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 03:01:31PM +0200, Ministeyr wrote: Carol Spears wrote: i asked because i put instructions of how to do this online. i have a crontab that runs gimp. that being said, it has been running for so long now, i have no idea what sort of mess it is making, but it was all so easy that it was a pleasure to put the instructions online. Well, i don't know if that is exactly what i meant, but i would still be grateful if you could give me the url to that document. Thanks. http://carol.gimp.org/gimp/scripting/routines.html#shell carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] What is this list?
Could you please tell me what this mailing list is? Do I post my buisness on this mailing list? Please let me know. Thank You, George Rice ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Smaller toolbar and grouping
Hi, just a proposal about a smaller toolbar and a way grouping of buttons in the toolbar (not about what kind of buttons belong to which specific group and there position etc.). http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png -- |\/\/\/| | | | (O)(O)Bart. C _) [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ,_/ | /- Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern - / \ http://www.neeneenee.de ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface user for the GIMP
Hi, Roland Wild [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Before to show you that review I want to point out that I'm neither a developper nor a designer but just a user. And I don't know if other alternativ interfaces were suggested on this mailing list. I would like you to give me your opinion on this: http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/index.html you can access to the english version by clicking on the little flag on the top. this english version was translated by me: again I apologize for the possible bad words. Nothing really new there except for the transparent windows which are simply not implementable in a portable way (yet). Otherwise your proposal is very similar to other proposals we've seen before. Our plan is to discuss these changes based on the product vision that we have created at LGM and based on the user scenarios that we are going to create next. Feel free to join to this effort. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Smaller toolbar and grouping
On Apr 1, 2006, at 7:32 AM, Bart wrote: Hi, just a proposal about a smaller toolbar and a way grouping of buttons in the toolbar (not about what kind of buttons belong to which specific group and there position etc.). http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png That seems pretty However, from a usability standpoint it might be much harder to use than just a straight line of buttons popping up either below or to the right. (Similar to the don't have to stop and look for it position for the Mac OS menubar on the screen not the window). There could be an argument for it becoming second nature, like Graffiti moves on a Palm, but then you also have to commit to keeping the popups' relative locations in the same spots forever. Also, while some people work more naturally with mouse gestures, others do not. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Smaller toolbar and grouping
Hey Bart.. Another Blender3D person here! As far as useability, goes- im that That fussed. though I tend towards the more common row of buttons under the button your pressing (alligned to the right/left) This is simple because your not limited to a 4 options. (okay 5 would work but look silly) and since a diagonal button is not a part of the options but still outlined somewhat, (in barts example the measurement tool is outlined on 3 sides, though I can tell its not an option, a quick click and select may be more confusing in this case.) its better to just have a row// Another resion to use a left/right aligned row. is that many people place there toolbars at the side of there screen. no5. would have the LHS button off the screen. Still I like the idea of having nested buttons, especialy for the transform tools that I rarely use but need to access. - Cam Jon A. Cruz wrote: On Apr 1, 2006, at 7:32 AM, Bart wrote: Hi, just a proposal about a smaller toolbar and a way grouping of buttons in the toolbar (not about what kind of buttons belong to which specific group and there position etc.). http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png That seems pretty However, from a usability standpoint it might be much harder to use than just a straight line of buttons popping up either below or to the right. (Similar to the don't have to stop and look for it position for the Mac OS menubar on the screen not the window). There could be an argument for it becoming second nature, like Graffiti moves on a Palm, but then you also have to commit to keeping the popups' relative locations in the same spots forever. Also, while some people work more naturally with mouse gestures, others do not. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- Campbell J Barton 133 Hope Street Geelong West, Victoria 3218 Australia URL:http://www.metavr.com e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: AU (03) 5229 0241 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Plea for a new interface for the GIMP
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2006-04-01 at 1546.52 +0200): Roland Wild wrote: From: http://linuxmedia.tuxfamily.org/contrib/gimp/index2.html Appearance of the layer an channels window ''onmouseover''. Another solution is that you could just have some special key (to set up in the preferences) to pop up the minimized windows. For example you You should try tab key when over an image window... at least it does something here. Control(+shift)+tab do interesting things too. GSR ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Pea for a new interface for the GIMP
Good Morning, I read all your answers and i thank you for. Thank you a lot Alex Fernandez, Robert L Krawitz, Alastair M. Robinson and Ministeyr You suggested me to use certain functionalities of my window manager and I found. Robert, what you proposed me get closer that I wanted to do. I will try to make a little video to show how. Alex, I understand now why gimp-developpers doesn't want to make such an interface: it is explain as you said in this page http://docs.gimp.org/en/concepts-beginners.html#gimp-concepts-usage : Unlike some other programs, GIMP does not give you the options of putting everything—controls and image displays—all into a single comprehensive window. The GIMP developers have always felt that this is a poor way of working, because it forces the program to perform a wide range of functions that are much better done by a dedicated window manager [...] it is almost impossible to do in a way that works correctly across all of the operating systems GIMP is intended to run on. Ministeyr I'm not a good user of keyboard keys but this could be a solution too. As I said I will try to make a little video to show how my window manager (KDE) is able to respond to a part of my waitings. But the same problem persist, as Alastair pointed out : Sadly that's not an option under Windows, and most disappointingly, not under stock Gnome either. Thank you Carol Spears... but I think you have not understand my aim which was not to make noise but to improve. As I said before, I'm not a developper (so I'm not able to make my own patches even if I would like) nor a profesional designer. I'm just a simple user who want to contibute at his level. Another thing: I use the GIMP because it's the best alternative to draw and manipulate photos in the freesoftware world and I'm a GNU/Linux user for years now. What is done in other softwares like paintshoppro or photoshop (and thus gimpshop) for example does not interest me here... and I think these softwares meet the same problems when it is about saving screen space to draw (on 17 screen). So I ask you the same question: Don't you feel the GIMP interface may be uncomfortable to use at lengh? If your answer to this question is no, I take back my comments and I will review my own use of the software. What I don't understand is the maneer you consider a simple user can contribute to a project. Is it only the developpers who have the right to their software or can the users bring their feelings about the use of it? If these users are not able to develope a patch don't they have right to speak? I respect the work of the GIMP developers creew and by propose my vision I don't think I work against them. Thank you Sven Neumann... for the invitation, I will try to participate as possible as I can. Roland. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Plea for a new interface...
Excuse me for the title in my precedent mail. I would like to write Plea instead of Pea. Roland ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] A few suggestions forThe Gimp
Hi Richard, As my englis his quite poor, i'm not sure i've understood, but i try. i have been teaching photoshop for several years. But in the same time, i was using Gimp and only Gimp at home. It is always hard to change. Of course, Gimp will lack some features, if you see it from Photoshop's point of view. But take it the other way, and Photoshop will have to be improved too. But i also feel sometimes that we can work much faster with Photoshop, but not always. And, in fact,I don't know if productivity is a good way to judge free software. I'm not sure. Here is what ia can tell 1. Image Browser : there are many image browser, even free. The question is why developping one for Gimp ? There are so many things to do, and most part of developper are really working on so many things. But may be i have something that could help you. If you run Linux and have Gqview installed, I have made a simple C script that allows you to run it from within Gimp (Simple). I'm beeing modifying Gqview for a better integration, but i've not reach that point i can publish it. The script could be esaily changed for another app, if it can help. it's not including the DB feature you tell about, but i take it somwhere. If one day i become a good developer. ;) 2. Your proposal seem to be : more complete theming. why not. I've already propose on Sven's website to have profiles on Gimp that could allow very important customization for each Gimp purpose (an UI for a photographer, is not a goos UI for a 3d Designer : see Bart's proposal http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png : it is typical from 3d softwares. But anybody can already add theme. Just have to do some. Tango is particularly working on it. Just wait and see. cheers Cedric ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Smaller toolbar and grouping
Hi, thanks for the replies, so i going on with it: http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar02.png -- |\/\/\/| | | | (O)(O)Bart. C _) [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ,_/ | /- Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern - / \ http://www.neeneenee.de ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-Python with no ui? (external script)
On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 02:58:12PM +0200, Ministeyr wrote: Manish Singh wrote: By the way, I thought the batch mode only understood scheme, so it would make the whole thing even more complicated. One line of scheme to call your python script won't increase the complexity appreciably. The problem is that if i have huge lists and complex python objects in my external scripts, and i want to access them in the gimp's python-fu script, i have to pass them through scheme, and thus it means converting back and forth. I will try to adapt with pickle if it works. You could serialize them to a temporary file, or choose from a number of IPC methods python ships with. No need to pass stuff like that over the command line. How were you planning on doing it via your original though of having having a gimp_noui anyway? The issues are more or less the same. -Yosh ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Pea for a new interface for the GIMP
On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 04:24:42PM -0400, Roland Wild wrote: but I think you have not understand my aim which was not to make noise but to improve. my aim was to explain that there are many options than just voicing your ideas here on this mail list. this mail list used to be very alive and passionate about making software. As I said before, I'm not a developper (so I'm not able to make my own patches even if I would like) nor a profesional designer. I'm just a simple user who want to contibute at his level. Another thing: I use the GIMP because it's the best alternative to draw and manipulate photos in the freesoftware world and I'm a GNU/Linux user for years now. What is done in other softwares like paintshoppro or photoshop (and thus gimpshop) for example does not interest me here... and I think these softwares meet the same problems when it is about saving screen space to draw (on 17 screen). So I ask you the same question: Don't you feel the GIMP interface may be uncomfortable to use at lengh? If your answer to this question is no, I take back my comments and I will review my own use of the software. i am difficult to improve software for. i say this because i loved gimp-1.0.2 when i first got it. my workflow involved the software that i had. me and gimp and a very small computer that ran linux ran circles around a photoshop user, the huge (in comparison) computer that i use now and windows. it seems to be out of fashion to use what you have and try to determine the reasons it works the way it does. gimp has kept up with my needs and work flow. due to the ease in scripting it, as i needed to do more, gimp was able to do more. i was actually surprised at how much i liked the new gui in gimp-2.0. but even then, it is a lot the gtk+ developers who made things that made sense to them. gimp uses these widgets. gtk+ is the gimp toolkit, btw. using linux for years and knowing where the software comes from and who writes it are different things. What I don't understand is the maneer you consider a simple user can contribute to a project. Is it only the developpers who have the right to their software or can the users bring their feelings about the use of it? If these users are not able to develope a patch don't they have right to speak? I respect the work of the GIMP developers creew and by propose my vision I don't think I work against them. i tried to answer questions on the gimp-user list and i lurked on the developer list for a long while. if a user feels that making a suggestion is a good contribution, first this user should probably look to see if the suggestion has been made before and what happened from that. other ways to contribute would be to translate tutorials for other software apps (like photoshop or paintshoppro or even microsoft paint) into gimp tutorials. there is also the gimp documentation project, i don't know how complete or good the gimp-help docs are -- i understand there are some areas that could be better or more complete. i ask the following as a simple question. here is the background to this question as well. after i used the humble gimp-1.0 and had such a great success (by working with it) i felt nothing but respect for the people who wrote it and tried to think like they did. now here is my question, as a user, what made you think that your suggestions (that were perhaps without research or similar respectful background searches) would be helpful? i really believe that you consider it to be helpful, i am trying to understand the logic that got you there. perhaps you think that the developers are paid. maybe you did not consider tutorial writing because again, you considered this to be a we hire you based on merit position. as you can see, i have a difficult time building the logic that got you here with your suggestions. my approach with the gimp developers long ago was the same approach i would like people to take with me when i have been involved with something that i considered so wonderful and beautiful as the gimp i get when i work with it. here is how another user contributed. at the lgm meeting, i have no idea where he came from or how far he travelled to get there. after much discussion about things, he raised his hand and said that he had been a user for years and was really happy with gimp. maybe you could make a web page for people like that to have a voice. that sure felt better and i think he did enough research to confidently say what he did. i appreciate your enthusiasm, carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
