Re: Fwd: Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I define an alias to make life easier: > > alias gncvs='cd /svn && cvs -z3 -d > :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome ' You do know that you have to do this step only once, don't you? Afterwards it's just cvs up. And the release notes (http://gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.3.html) recommend to use something like --prefix=/opt/gimp-2.3 as parameters for autogen.sh. HTH, Michael -- GIMP > http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de Plug-ins > http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Fwd: Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
--- Forwarded message --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:23:37 +0200 On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:29:31 +0200, Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Can someone point me to a hint on how to get the newest CVS version? I don't have lots of time, but I guess if I have further comments I ought to be looking at the newest bleeding edge. I define an alias to make life easier: alias gncvs='cd /svn && cvs -z3 -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome ' create yourself a directory with lots of free space, cd to it. bash# gncvs login password: bash# gncvs co gimp bash# cd gimp bash# ./autogen.sh bash# make && make install bash# gimp HTH ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 11:36:48AM -0700, William Skaggs wrote: > > Scott, thanks for the feedback, although you could try to be a bit less > emotional about it, since this is after all a development version. Sorry, I tend to get emotional over tools like the Gimp that I have known and loved for many years > Several of the things you complain about have already been changed in > the most recent builds, motivated by feedback similar to yours. good.. > Others simply reflect that you haven't learned yet how to use the new > features. For example, if you always want a 300x200 crop region, you can > set the width and height in the options, *and activate the checkboxes next > to them*. If you do that, then the width and height will stay fixed no > matter what you do with any of the corners. So two more mouse clicks. I'll learn, I'll learn But the deal with the lower-left/upper-right handles being movers and the other two being stretchers has been a feature of gimp for a long time. I checked on the version 1.0.4 on this ancient machine I use at my real workplace, and it is the same there, and was until 2.2. Why would that suddenly be changed? Very disconcerting. I also completely fail to see any reason why areas outside the image should be selectable by a crop tool. If I lay a paper photograph on a table and take an xacto knife to it, do I reasonably expect to cut out part of the table along with what I cut out of the photograph? It is nonsensical. Can someone point me to a hint on how to get the newest CVS version? I don't have lots of time, but I guess if I have further comments I ought to be looking at the newest bleeding edge. Thanks for your help, I'll check out the checkboxes tonight. Scott Swanson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
From: Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...lots of stuff...] >I don't know if this is the proper place to post this sort of thing, >but I do hope that you developers will consider listening to some of >us casual users, as the interface has gotten way too overloaded and >user-unfriendly. I seriously am thinking of going back to 2.2, and I >shudder to even think of what a mess 2.4 is going to be if this is any >indication of "progress". How can a tool so simple in concept and so >frequently used as "crop" have been bollixed up so badly? Scott, thanks for the feedback, although you could try to be a bit less emotional about it, since this is after all a development version. Several of the things you complain about have already been changed in the most recent builds, motivated by feedback similar to yours. Others simply reflect that you haven't learned yet how to use the new features. For example, if you always want a 300x200 crop region, you can set the width and height in the options, *and activate the checkboxes next to them*. If you do that, then the width and height will stay fixed no matter what you do with any of the corners. Best wishes, -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
Scott wrote: > How can a tool so simple in concept and so frequently used as "crop" > have been bollixed up so badly? By working on it. If you are interested in the progress and want to influence future development, you should try to get GIMP built directly from CVS. Even current 2.3 releases (right now 2.3.12) get outdated pretty soon because they are tested by a larger user group and thus trigger changes due to reported bugs. Bugs are reported in Bugzilla. http://bugs.gimp.org is a redirect to the overview for GIMP, this is where someone who wants to report a bug should start to search for similiar reports. P.S. GIMP 2.3 is not supposed to replace GIMP 2.2. It is recommended to have 2.2 installed and use it for production work. It's also useful to have it around when testing 2.3, because you may be asked or may want to compare its behaviour to the previous version. HTH, Michael -- GIMP > http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de Plug-ins > http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 10:32:50AM -0600, Scott wrote: > > Using the 2.2 version, the interface of the crop tool was very handy > for me. Typing Shift-c brings up the tool; a quick move of the mouse > creates a selection area; over to the tool-option menu that > automatically pops up, type in 300 and 200 for the dimensions; now > grab the lower-left handle and move the selection as desired, click > and it's done. The old crop tools was ok if you have a fixed target size. The dialog always got in the way for the cases where you crop the image to find the right aspect. > I recently upgraded to Mandrivel 2007, which includes the 2.3. Did my > first crop this morning. No tool-option. Okay, clicked on the tools, > or view, or some danged thing, found the tool option. Hmmm, a whole > bunch of stuff that doesn't really relate to what I am doing. Finally > I find some hidden dimensioning menu and enter in the 300 and > 200. The new place of the dimensions saves me from having to move a dialog out of my way every time. I'm less happy about the expander, though. > Grab the lower left corner - whoops! All the corners resize the > selection! Handy not. Resizing and finding the right cutout has become way easier now. > Instead of automatically confining > itself to the image as before, I can move the selection outside of the > image. Now that's *really* handy - like I would ever want to select a > certain size and then have part of it outside the image. Sometimes I need to crop extending to outside the current image. But there should be an option for confining to current size. On by default, as it's the right choice in most cases, I think. > How can a tool so simple in concept and so > frequently used as "crop" have been bollixed up so badly? To me it seems it's just that you see only a single use case ;) -- Thorsten Wilms ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] More interface rantings
There have been many posts regarding the Gimp interface here. I consider myself what you refer to as a 'casual user', although I use the Gimp on a daily basis. My primary use is to edit photographs for posting to a website. For historical reasons, the preferred image size of the final product is 300x200 pixels. My current camera produces images which scale down to 300x225. Therefore, a part of my normal workflow is to crop the scaled image down to eliminate the extraneous 25 pixels (usually either ground or sky; this is a real estate webpage). Using the 2.2 version, the interface of the crop tool was very handy for me. Typing Shift-c brings up the tool; a quick move of the mouse creates a selection area; over to the tool-option menu that automatically pops up, type in 300 and 200 for the dimensions; now grab the lower-left handle and move the selection as desired, click and it's done. I recently upgraded to Mandrivel 2007, which includes the 2.3. Did my first crop this morning. No tool-option. Okay, clicked on the tools, or view, or some danged thing, found the tool option. Hmmm, a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't really relate to what I am doing. Finally I find some hidden dimensioning menu and enter in the 300 and 200. Grab the lower left corner - whoops! All the corners resize the selection! Handy not. Okay, redo it, and eventually discover how I can move the selection. Whoa! Instead of automatically confining itself to the image as before, I can move the selection outside of the image. Now that's *really* handy - like I would ever want to select a certain size and then have part of it outside the image. Play very carefully with it until I get it to a spot where it aligns with one of the side boundaries, and then very carefully move it down to where I want it. Whoops, now I'm two pixels outside the image, carefully jiggle it back. Whew. What used to be a 10-second task now takes a couple of minutes, and I'm starting to get carpal tunnel syndrome from all the mousing around. I'm really looking forward to the next time I have 16 pictures to get posted by 9:00 am. I don't know if this is the proper place to post this sort of thing, but I do hope that you developers will consider listening to some of us casual users, as the interface has gotten way too overloaded and user-unfriendly. I seriously am thinking of going back to 2.2, and I shudder to even think of what a mess 2.4 is going to be if this is any indication of "progress". How can a tool so simple in concept and so frequently used as "crop" have been bollixed up so badly? Scott Swanson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Specifically simplifying user interaction
> Users, noob or otherwise, should not need to RTFM just to use the menu! To > suggest they do means the interface is failing. > No! The interface is not failing. The menu functions perfectly well and most users can determine how to accomplish things without resorting to the manual. What you are asking for is that shortcuts or "power user" features also be thrown in the beginning user's face. This would have the effect of complicating things for the beginning user and would prove of little benefit to the GIMP user who wishes to use the software to its fullest potential. > Calling things "power-user" features because they are obscure or smuggly > saying RTFM when the interface is cryptic will not make Gimp (or anything > else) easier to use. "Power user" features are just that, they require that the user be willing to delve a little deeper to obtain the maximum benefit. Things such as permitting a user to define their own convolve or transformation matrix is a great thing; but it is doubtful that they could ever be presented "intuitively" to a casual user. If you want your GIMP to be optimized to your preferences, you are going to have to learn how to define your preferences to the program. > This echos the Corrective Rotation discussion. Some really good features > where Gimp could shine are being hidden from the user by poor interface > design compounded by a reluctance to review some decisions that may not > have been the best choice. Again, your solipsism of wishing to declare that any interface that does not satisfy *your* preferences is a "poor interface" is misguided. The fact that the 'Corrective Rotation' labelling has been changed, and then changed back again, represents the complete opposite of "reluctance"; however, at some point you just have to accept that not everyone shares your preference and when the split is close to 50/50 the best thing to do is to move on to more important issues. > If the user sees something he cant use or cant understand he may be > expected to search a specific chapter in the manual to explain it. If a > feature is not apparent he's not going to have any reason to search. And if the user can acceptably use the GIMP without being aware of the feature, there is nothing lost but his own productivity. If the user wishes to either expand his proficiency or improve his workflow, then it might be advisable that he spend some time R'ing TFM. "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." -- Harry S. Truman ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
